Which players were once 'the best player on the planet'?

[WillC]

I have my own list, but I'm curious what others think.

I'm not simply looking for a list of MVP winners. After all, I don't think anyone honestly believes Steve Nash or Derrick Rose were ever the 'best player on the planet'.

So, which players throughout history can genuinely make the claim that, at some point in time, they were the best player on the planet?

[NumberSix]

Wilt
Jordan
Shaq
LeBron

[moe94]

Shaq
Jordan
LeBron
Kobe

In recent times. I don't think Tim Duncan was ever truly the flat out best, including 03. Durant needs to finish the season, at least.

[LAZERUSS]

Late 50's Russell
Mid 60's Wilt
Early 70's KAJ
Early 80's Moses
Mid 80's Bird
Early 90's MJ
Early 00's Shaq
Late 00's Kobe
Early 10's Lebron

[KyrieTheFuture]

Bill Walton for like 17 games.

[Eric Cartman]

Carmelo Anthony for that 1 game streak! It was so sick yo! ! !

[T_L_P]

Duncan in '03. At least in the Playoffs

[NumberSix]

There's been at least 12 best players in the world this season.

[moe94]

Duncan in '03. At least in the Playoffs

Shaq was still a better player.

[T_L_P]

Shaq was still a better player.

He really wasn't. He put up similar stats (we're talking Playoffs here), but the impact difference is obvious, especially when you factor in all the intangibles like leadership and team-play...and on defense it's a no-contest.

[wally_world]

West
Dr J
Wilt
MJ
Hakeem? (when MJ was retired)
Shaq
Kobe
LeBron

Larry and Magic would've made the list too but they had each other as competition throughout their entire career.

[WillC]

Surprised by the lack of players mentioned so far.

What about George Mikan? Bob Cousy? Bill Russell? Moses Malone?

[SexSymbol]

Duncan for one year
Kobe for 2-4
LeBron for 2 and we'll see if he'll rack up more
Jordan for 6-8
Bird for a few years
Kareem in the seventy's
Russell in the 60s
Hakeem was obvious choice when MJ was gone too.
I'd give 11 to dirk too

[moe94]

The idea of Kobe having more years as best over Lebron is hysterical^

Good call on Dream. No idea why I didn't list him. 94-95 was his, without question.


He really wasn't. He put up similar stats (we're talking Playoffs here), but the impact difference is obvious, especially when you factor in all the intangibles like leadership and team-play.

What about killer instinct? Did Duncan display that or was he too gloomy? I like Shaq's killer instinct because he was mean, you know.

28/11 and 27/15 in the playoffs on better shooting, no less >>> Duncan :confusedshrug:

Similar my ass.

[NumberSix]

He really wasn't. He put up similar stats (we're talking Playoffs here), but the impact difference is obvious, especially when you factor in all the intangibles like leadership and team-play...and on defense it's a no-contest.
The problem with Duncan......

#1. All Kobe Stans underrate him because they don't want to admit he's better than Kobe.

#2. Everybody else overrates him.

[T_L_P]

What about killer instinct? Did Duncan display that or was he too gloomy? I like Shaq's killer instinct because he was mean, you know.

28/11 and 27/15 in the playoffs on better shooting, no less >>> Duncan :confusedshrug:

Similar my ass.

Duncan was flat out the best player in '03.

25/15/5/3.5 over the course of the Playoffs, as the only elite player on that team, thus the only guy people really paid attention to?

If Shaq were the best on the planet, how come he couldn't beat Duncan's Spurs? A Kobe (33/5/5 in the Spurs series by the way) Shaq tandem surely should have been able to beat Duncan/Parker/Jackson combo?

Duncan was playing the best defense in the world whilst simultaneously being the only elite/consistent offensive option on the team. Shaq has never had to carry that burden (and if he did, his teams didn't get very far).

[T_L_P]

The problem with Duncan......

#1. All Kobe Stans underrate him because they don't want to admit he's better than Kobe.

#2. Everybody else overrates him.

So do you think he was the best player in '03?

[moe94]

Duncan was playing the best defense in the world whilst simultaneously being the only elite/consistent offensive option on the team. Shaq has never had to carry that burden (and if he did, his teams didn't get very far).

Are you trying to argue peak Duncan > peak Shaq? :biggums:

[LAZERUSS]

Surprised by the lack of players mentioned so far.

What about George Mikan? Bob Cousy? Bill Russell? Moses Malone?


Your turn now...

[T_L_P]

Are you trying to argue peak Duncan > peak Shaq? :biggums:

No, I'm trying to say '03 Duncan > '03 Shaq by a large margin.

Shaq's peak is rivaled only by Jordan's in my opinion, but the fact still remains Shaq never had to drag a team as sorry as Duncan's in '03. He couldn't even get it done with that ultra-stacked Orlando team :confusedshrug:

Again, if Shaq were the best player in the world in '03 why did he and Kobe (33 PPG / 5 RPG / 5 APG) lose to Duncan very convincingly?

[moe94]

No, I'm trying to say '03 Duncan > '03 Shaq by a large margin.

Shaq's peak is rivaled only by Jordan's in my opinion, but the fact still remains Shaq never had to drag a team as sorry as Duncan's in '03. He couldn't even get it done with ultra-stacked Orlando team :confusedshrug:

Large margin? Shaq was better statistically and it's not arguable. Duncan's team won and he was a better defender, that's about it.

[T_L_P]

Large margin? Shaq was better statistically and it's not arguable. Duncan's team won and he was a better defender, that's about it.

25/15.5/5.5/3.5 > 27/15/4/3 :confusedshrug:

Stats clearly don't tell the whole story here, though.

Shaq and Kobe, two of the three best players in the world, lost to Duncan, yet somehow Shaq was still better than him?

And you say he was a better defender as if it isn't 50% of the entire game :oldlol:

Duncan's impact far exceeded Shaq's. It's close to fact.

Also, if you're going just by stats, was Duncan better than Shaq in '02?

[fpliii]

In the shot-clock era (not due to discrimination, but rather because of a lack of knowledge on my part):

Pettit (55 thru 56)
Russell (57 thru 64)
Wilt (65 thru 70)
Kareem (71 thru 81)
Bird (82 thru 87)
Jordan (88 thru 92)
Hakeem (93 thru 95)
Shaq (97 thru 01)
Duncan (02 thru 05)
Kobe (06 thru 08)
LeBron (09 thru 13)

This season depends on whether or not LeBron is coasting, and how he and Durant finish out the season.

[NumberSix]

So do you think he was the best player in '03?
I think he played the best that season.

[T_L_P]

In the shot-clock era (not due to discrimination, but rather because of a lack of knowledge on my part):

Pettit (55 thru 56)
Russell (57 thru 64)
Wilt (65 thru 70)
Kareem (71 thru 81)
Bird (82 thru 87)
Jordan (88 thru 92)
Hakeem (93 thru 95)
Shaq (97 thru 04)
Kobe (05 thru 08)
LeBron (09 thru 13)

This season depends on whether or not LeBron is coasting, and how he and Durant finish out the season.

Were you just trying to use bulk years here?

So Magic was never the best in the league?

So Shaq was better than Duncan in 1999 and 2003...and he was better than Garnett in 2004?

Kobe's 66 games of 28/6/6 in 2005 were of more worth than LeBron's 80 games of 27/7.5/7?

[moe94]

=

Also, if you're going just by stats, was Duncan better than Shaq in '02?

He played less games in the playoffs and his stats are still worse. In what universe are they better? :biggums:

[SHAQisGOAT]

-George Mikan in the early 50's
-Bob Cousy in the mid 50's
-Bob Pettit in the mid to late 50's
-Russell then Wilt (hard to say when Wilt took over imho but Russ was more impactful at 1st and Wilt was playing for stats and doing bad under pressure every now and then, since like 65 I would call Wilt the better player though)
-Kareem in the 70's
-Moses in the early 80's
-Bird for 3 straight years
-Magic, when he hit his peak, for a 1/2 years before Jordan took off, just when Bird started to break down and the C's had no team to compete
-Jordan since 88, 89 or so
-Hakeem if counting when Jordan retired
-Shaq after MJ retired for the 2nd time
-Duncan for a few years, since Shaq's last couple of years with the Lakers (maybe KG for a year too)
-Kobe in the 2nd part of the 00's
-then Lebron

[fpliii]

Were you just trying to use bulk years here?

So Magic was never the best in the league?

So Shaq was better than Duncan in 2003 and Garnett in 2004?

Kobe's 66 games of 28/6/6 in 2005 were of more worth than LeBron's 80 games of 27/7.5/7?
Hm well not bulk years, but this is the list with which I've traditionally went.

I do not believe any version of Magic was better than any Bird 80-88, and by the last year MJ took over.

As for Duncan/Garnett, you're probably right. This is just an old list of mine. I'll go with Duncan 02-05.

[T_L_P]

He played less games in the playoffs and his stats are still worse. In what universe are they better? :biggums:


Shaq's 2002 Playoff stats: 28.5 PPG / 12.6 RPG / 2.8 APG / 2.5 BPG

Duncan's 2002 Playoff stats: 27.6 PPG / 14.4 RPG / 5.0 APG / 4.3 BPG


In what ****ing universe are Shaq's stats better?

[T_L_P]

Hm well not bulk years, but this is the list with which I've traditionally went.

I do not believe any version of Magic was better than any Bird 80-88, and by the last year MJ took over.

As for Duncan/Garnett, you're probably right. This is just an old list of mine. I'll probably go with Duncan 02-05.

I can't honestly comment on Magic. I could probably find a stat or whatever, but I haven't seen enough of him from any of his years to say whether he was better.

:cheers:

[fpliii]

I can't honestly comment on Magic. I could probably find a stat or whatever, but I haven't seen enough of him from any of his years to say whether he was better.

:cheers:
:cheers:

I'm probably in the minority here in that stance.

[LAZERUSS]

I can't honestly comment on Magic. I could probably find a stat or whatever, but I haven't seen enough of him from any of his years to say whether he was better.

:cheers:

If you include post-season play, then Magic was better than Bird for much of the decade of the 80's.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Fulks
Mikan
Cousy
Pettit
Russell
Wilt
Kareem
Erving
Moses
Bird
Magic
MJ
Duncan
Shaq
KG
Kobe
Lebron
Durant

[moe94]

Shaq's 2002 Playoff stats: 28.5 PPG / 12.6 RPG / 2.8 APG / 2.5 BPG
Duncan's 2002 Playoff stats: 27.6 PPG / 14.4 RPG / 5.0 APG / 4.3 BPG


In what ****ing universe are Shaq's stats better?

The universe where he scored more points on clearly better efficiency while playing way more games? That universe. :oldlol:

Just stop. Their regular seasons couldn't be more different in disparity, too but of course your agenda doesn't support such a thing, does it?

A bit ironic considering you used that "more games" argument in this very thread for LeBron/Kobe. :confusedshrug:

[iamgine]

I have my own list, but I'm curious what others think.

I'm not simply looking for a list of MVP winners. After all, I don't think anyone honestly believes Steve Nash or Derrick Rose were ever the 'best player on the planet'.

So, which players throughout history can genuinely make the claim that, at some point in time, they were the best player on the planet?
You mean for a whole season? Because if it's just for shorter periods, Nash did look like he's the best player on the planet. Dirk also comes to mind. Yao, Mcgrady, Durant, etc.

[SHAQisGOAT]

If you include post-season play, then Magic was better than Bird for much of the decade of the 80's.

And if we're talking straight up about basketball, while knowing what you're talking about with no agendas.. just forget it though, you can't do that :lol

[moe94]

And if we're talking straight up about basketball, while knowing what you're talking about with no agendas.. just forget it though, you can't do that :lol

Is the disparity between them that vast? :coleman:

[T_L_P]

The universe where he scored more points on clearly better efficiency while playing way more games? That universe. :oldlol:

Just stop. Their regular seasons couldn't be more different in disparity, too but of course your agenda doesn't support such a thing, does it?

A bit ironic considering you used that "more games" argument in this very thread for LeBron/Kobe. :confusedshrug:

They took the exact same amount of shots...Shaq's better FG% doesn't exactly make up for the 20% difference in FT%

And you use more games played...so why is '03 Shaq's stats better than '03 Duncan's, considering Duncan "played more games"

Then Duncan averaged 2 more assists and 2 more blocks. That's 4 more points for his team and 4 less points allowed for the other. Duncan's 2002 Playoff stats are better than Shaq's...you're literally lying right now.

Duncan's 2002 Regular Season stats: 25.5 PPG / 12.7 RPG / 3.7 APG / 2.5 BPG

Shaq's 2002 Regular Season stats: 27.2 PPG / 10.7 RPG / 3.0 APG / 2.0 BPG

Duncan's team record: 58-24
Shaq's team record: 56-26

Duncan, yet again, had better stats and led a lesser team to a better record...

When I used games played, I was referring to the regular season, because Kobe was injured...nothing to do with how deep their team's went into the Playoffs :facepalm

You say I have an agenda. I've said before that Shaq's peak is quite possibly the greatest in NBA history...you can't even admit Duncan was better than Shaq in '03, something that is close to fact.

[LAZERUSS]

And if we're talking straight up about basketball, while knowing what you're talking about with no agendas.. just forget it though, you can't do that :lol

First of all, take a look at my original post on the topic. I have your boy BIRD in the mid-80's, and I didn't even mention Magic at all.

Having said that, though, Magic was the better player over the course of his entire career, and especially in the post-season.

Of course the Bird-lovers will always bring up Bird's decline from injuries, and never mention the fact that he was three years older when the two first came in the league. And again, and including playoffs, from '80 thur '83 Magic was the better player. And was certainly the better player from '87 on.

[ArbitraryWater]

Well every single year might be hard to do, but:
1950's: Mikan then who ruled it 55-59?
1960's: Wilt, Russell/West/Baylor close
1970's: Kareem. Did he actually own the entire damn decade?? (No, few years others were better.)
1980's: Kareem, then Bird then Magic. And from 1980-1983 Magic easily outpeformed Bird in the playoffs.
1990's: Jordan, when he was out Hakeem.
2000's: Shaq 2000-2002, 2003-2005 Duncan. In 2004 probably KG. 2006&2007 is IMO Dirk closely followed by Nash/LeBron/Kobe/Wade. 2008 is Kobe/LeBron/Paul, and ever since 2009 with the arguable exception of 2011 being Dirk, its LeBron.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Who do you guys think was the best after Mikan? I think we can consider 49-54 Mikan, then he retired '55. In 1955 Niel Johnston led the NBA in scoring and rebounding, Bob Cousy was in the league and made a first team while leading the league in assists, Dolph Schayes led his team to a title also making the first team, Bob Pettit won rookie of the year and made the first team, and Larry Foust also made the first team.

[NumberSix]

Who do you guys think was the best after Mikan? I think we can consider 49-54 Mikan, then he retired '55. In 1955 Niel Johnston led the NBA in scoring and rebounding, Bob Cousy was in the league and made a first team while leading the league in assists, Dolph Schayes led his team to a title.
Probably Mike Gaynor.

[LAZERUSS]

While you can go thru single seasons, and come up with dozens of great seasons, the reality was/is, that players like a prime Shaq, or prime KAJ, would have been considered the best players in the league, even if they didn't win an MVP. If I remember correctly Shaq was #1 on an annual GM list for several years.

No one would have taken AI over Shaq in a general draft in 2001, nor Nash over Kobe in '06.

There really have not been very many players who were considered "head-and-shoulders" above their peers at a given period of time.

[Micku]

In the shot-clock era (not due to discrimination, but rather because of a lack of knowledge on my part):

Pettit (55 thru 56)
Russell (57 thru 64)
Wilt (65 thru 70)
Kareem (71 thru 81)
Bird (82 thru 87)
Jordan (88 thru 92)
Hakeem (93 thru 95)
Shaq (97 thru 01)
Duncan (02 thru 05)
Kobe (06 thru 08)
LeBron (09 thru 13)

This season depends on whether or not LeBron is coasting, and how he and Durant finish out the season.

Agree with this for the most part except I would think Moses Malone in the early 80s was better than Kareem and Bird. At least it wasn't clear. In 80-83 Moses Malone was in his prime. I do Bird in 83-86 it was more clear that Bird was the best player than in the early 80s with Kareem and Moses Malone battling.

In 87 it was Magic, Bird, and Jordan. Jordan was already a very good defender at this stage, some commentators mentioned how they were very impress with his consistent defense, called him the best defender on the bulls team. At the very least, I would say he was probably the better individual player than the other two ever were, but it did not translate into team success. But you can argue the whole Jordan had inferior teammates issue.

I'm happy that you did put Shaq in 97-98 tho.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Exactly my question. Maybe Cousy?
Cousy's a safe bet.

[WillC]

You mean for a whole season? Because if it's just for shorter periods, Nash did look like he's the best player on the planet. Dirk also comes to mind. Yao, Mcgrady, Durant, etc.

This is the problem. Much as I enjoyed watching (and admire) the likes of Nash, Nowitzki and McGrady, I can't hand-on-heart say they were ever the best player on the planet. Maybe Nowitzki in 2010-11.

But yes, in theory, I'd include a player in my list if I truly felt they were the best player on the planet for an entire season.

For example, I think Kevin Durant qualifies right now. Nobody is better than him right now.

Which raises the question: does Wes Unseld qualify? What about Jerry West? Isiah Thomas?

[WillC]

Who do you guys think was the best after Mikan? I think we can consider 49-54 Mikan, then he retired '55. In 1955 Niel Johnston led the NBA in scoring and rebounding, Bob Cousy was in the league and made a first team while leading the league in assists, Dolph Schayes led his team to a title also making the first team, Bob Pettit won rookie of the year and made the first team, and Larry Foust also made the first team.

Neil Johnston put up big numbers but I've not read any evidence to say that anyone considered him the best player in the league.

Instead, post-Mikan (but pre-Russell), the main NBA draw was Bob Cousy - and not just because he was a flashy passer.

[WillC]

Fulks
Mikan
Cousy
Pettit
Russell
Wilt
Kareem
Erving
Moses
Bird
Magic
MJ
Duncan
Shaq
KG
Kobe
Lebron
Durant

I agree that Fulks deserves a mention. The problem is, his peak years (in the BAA) coincided with some of Mikan's best years (in the NBL).

[Deuce Bigalow]

I agree that Fulks deserves a mention. The problem is, his peak years (in the BAA) coincided with some of Mikan's best years (in the NBL).
Got to give Fulks '47 atleast since he won a championship while Mikan won a championship in '48.

Fulks 47
Mikan 48-54
Johnston/Cousy/Pettit/Foust/Schayes 55
Pettit 56-58
Russell 59
Wilt 60-68, 72
West 69-70
Kareem 71, 73-75, 77-80
Erving 76, 81
Moses 82-83
Bird 84-86
Magic 87
MJ 88-93, 96-98
Hakeem 94-95
Duncan 99, 03
Shaq 00-02, 05
KG 04
Kobe 06-08, 10
Lebron 09, 12-13
Dirk 11
Durant 14

[HOoopCityJones]

I'd take Kobe over Lebron in 09, ya'll crazy.

Everyone considered KB the best , thats when Gentry's famous "It's not even close: speech went down.

[Deuce Bigalow]

I'd take Kobe over Lebron in 09, ya'll crazy.

Everyone considered KB the best , thats when Gentry's famous "It's not even close: speech went down.
That was 2010 when Gentry said that. Lebron was too good in the regular season and playoffs especially so I give 09 to Lebron.

[Jameerthefear]

lol Kobe was never the clear cut best player in the league.

[HOoopCityJones]

I stand corrected. :lol

[Akrazotile]

Kobe was never better than Duncan during those 05-07 playoff-flameout years, he was only flashier.

Most fans aren't capable of understanding the difference tho.

Kobe never had the greatest positive impact on the game on a consistent basis ever. People just see "lots of ppg!" and that's all they can comprehend. Lebron was better by his 3rd year in the league than Kobe ever was. Durant is better than Kobe ever was. Chris Paul is better than Kobe ever was.

Kobe was a flashy player, a TMac, an Arenas, an Iverson, a Melo, who happened to play for the best organization in sports, which CARRIED him to titles.

[HOoopCityJones]

Kobe was never better than Duncan during those 05-07 playoff-flameout years, he was only flashier.

Most fans aren't capable of understanding the difference tho.

4>2

[WillC]

Ok, here's my list, but I'm open to ideas:

Joe Fulks 1947
George Mikan 1948-54
Bob Cousy 1955
Bob Pettit 1956-58
Bill Russell 1959-63, 1965
Oscar Robertson 1964
Wilt Chamberlain 1966-68
Jerry West 1969-70
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1971-72, 1973-74, 1977, 1978-80
Rick Barry 1975
Julius Erving 1976
Moses Malone 1982-83
Larry Bird 1981, 1984-86
Magic Johnson 1987
Michael Jordan 1988-93, 1996-98
Hakeem Olajuwon 1994-95
Tim Duncan 1999, 2003, 2007
Shaquille O'Neal 2000-02, 2005
Kevin Garnett 2004
Kobe Bryant 2006, 2008
LeBron James 2009-10, 2012-13
Dirk Nowitzki 2011
Kevin Durant 2014

[HOoopCityJones]

"Shaquille O'Neal 2000-02, 2005, 2007"

Why 07 for Shaq if I may ask? :confusedshrug:

[WillC]

"Shaquille O'Neal 2000-02, 2005, 2007"

Why 07 for Shaq if I may ask? :confusedshrug:

Typo. Meant to put 2007 for Tim Duncan. Thanks for noticing it.

[Akrazotile]

4>2


Duncan > Kobe

[HOoopCityJones]

Duncan > Kobe



Here on Earth though? Bean.

[tmacattack33]

If you limit it to one year, there's a lot...Wade and KG would be included, maybe Chris Paul in 2008. I wouldn't consider 1 year time spans though. I'd make it 2-3 year time spans or so. In which case it becomes:

Starting in 1996:

MJ
Shaq
Duncan
Kobe
Lebron

[Miller for 3]

Nash was clearly the best player in 05.

It goes Mikan, Russell, Pettit, Wilt, Kareem, Dr. J, Moses, Bird, Magic, Jordan,Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan, Garnett, Nash, Kobe, Wade, Dirk, Durant.

[HOoopCityJones]

Nash was clearly the best player in 05.

It goes Mikan, Russell, Pettit, Wilt, Kareem, Dr. J, Moses, Bird, Magic, Jordan, Shaq, Duncan, Garnett, Nash, Kobe, Wade, Dirk, Durant.

Damn don't do em like that...Where Crimson Chin?

[WillC]

If you limit it to one year, there's a lot...Wade and KG would be included, maybe Chris Paul in 2008. I wouldn't consider 1 year time spans though. I'd make it 2-3 year time spans or so. In which case it becomes:

Starting in 1996:

MJ
Shaq
Duncan
Kobe
Lebron

Yeah, it might be better to restrict it to at least 2 or 3 year periods of time.

As Bill Simmons calls it: 'Alpha Dogs'.

[DatAsh]

If we're just making lists of who we have as the best player each year, I'd say

Russell(58-65)
Wilt(66-70)
Kareem(71-76)
Walton(77-78)
Kareem(79-81)
Malone(82-83)
Bird(84-86)
Magic(87)
Jordan(88-93)
Hakeem(94-95)
Jordan(96-98)
Duncan(99)
Shaq(00-02)
Duncan(03)
Garnett(04)
Duncan(05)
Kobe(06-08)
Lebron(09-13)

Walton is probably a controversial pick given how many games he missed, but I logic was "for the time he was playing". I remember ElGee posting some truly outstanding statistics about those years showing just how incredible Walton was.

If you're looking for times where the answer to that question was near unanimous - come playoff conclusion - in the eyes of most coaches/players/analysts, the list would probably be pretty short.

71-74 Kareem
90-93 Jordan
00-01 Shaq
12-13 Lebron

[Prometheus]

George Mikan - Wilt Chamberlain - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - Larry Bird - Michael Jordan - Hakeem Olajuwon - Shaquille O'Neal - Tim Duncan - Kobe Bryant - LeBron James - Kevin Durant (depending on how this season pans out)

[kNicKz]

There's been at least 12 best players in the world this season.

There are 12 KDs?

[Prometheus]

There are 12 KDs?

:lol

[GOATbe]

Kobe. Passed the torch to KD this season.

http://gifatron.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/spiderman_crying.gif