Why is Dion Waiters shooting better than Beal, Oladipo, Barnes, Ross, & McLemore?

[PleezeBelieve]

Waiters: 42%

Beal: 40%

Oladipo: 41%

Barnes: 40%

Ross: 40%

McLemore: 36%


Bu..bu..but Dion Waiters is a bust and not worth the #4 pick according to draft experts on insidehoops. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[moe94]

1. shit on kyrie
2. hype up Waiters
3. ????
4. PROFIT

[PleezeBelieve]

1. shit on kyrie
2. hype up Waiters
3. ????
4. PROFIT
What does this have to do with the thread?

[Le Shaqtus]

You can hardly call shooting 1-2% over some of these players shooting better :lol

Except Mclemore, he's shooting like shit

[moe94]

What does this have to do with the thread?

Waiters is pretty shit and quite clearly a worse player than Kyrie so what is your endgame? Kyrie nut in your girl?

[KyrieTheFuture]

As much as I enjoy Dion, other players being shitty doesn't make him good. We're pretty fortunate every other guard picked since him has been awful.

[coin24]

Because waiters is a bench scrub?

[MP.Trey]

Yeah. I'm pretty tired of Dion Waiters playing one or two good games then being pretty much worthless for the next three or four. That and his inability to finish with contact (he admittedly does not get whistles though). It's not trending well.

[PleezeBelieve]

As much as I enjoy Dion, other players being shitty doesn't make him good. We're pretty fortunate every other guard picked since him has been awful.
ISH said we should have drafted all these players before Waiters.

They were wrong. Lets see if they own up to it

[PleezeBelieve]

Yeah. I'm pretty tired of Dion Waiters playing one or two good games then being pretty much worthless for the next three or four. That and his inability to finish with contact (he admittedly does not get whistles though). It's not trending well.
Umm, so what's the other players excuse for shooting worse?

[NattyPButter]

Waiters is pretty shit and quite clearly a worse player than Kyrie so what is your endgame? Kyrie nut in your girl?

actually he's damn close to Kyrie's level. All Kyrie really has over him is his dribbling ability which most of the time he bounces off his foot anyways or screws up the rythem because he wants to go uncle drew instead of playing with the team.

Dion is a better defender and better 3pt shooter then Kyrie too. He also shows heart.

[MP.Trey]

Umm, so what's the other players excuse for shooting worse?
Beal is the only player there I'm "ehh" about on whether I'd want over Waiters. So I'll give you that for this thread. I was just speaking on Dion's play overall for the season. I'm dissapointed after what I saw last year despite some flashes of brilliance here and there.

[NattyPButter]

Beal is the only player there I'm "ehh" about on whether I'd want over Waiters. So I'll give you that for this thread. I was just speaking on Dion's play overall for the season. I'm dissapointed after what I saw last year despite some flashes of brilliance here and there.

you disappointed of what you saw last year? He was a freaking rookie.

[Jameerthefear]

Oladipo is a first year player and getting better every game. He is better right now then Dion ever was.

[PleezeBelieve]

Oladipo is a first year player and getting better every game. He is better right now then Dion ever was.
No he's not. His rookie year isn't even better than Waiters rookie year

[Jameerthefear]

No he's not. His rookie year isn't even better than Waiters rookie year
Yes it is. Oladipo>>>Waiters

[DukeDelonte13]

Oladipo is a first year player and getting better every game. He is better right now then Dion ever was.


Waiters is a far more complete and dynamic offensive player that Dipo is. Maybe one day he will be the better player, but he doesn't have a fraction of the talent that Waiters does. Dipo has the 10x better attitude though.



Waiters isn't that far off of Kyrie talent wise. He has the potential to be a better defender but he's doesn't bring on on the defensive end consistently enough yet. Dion's more of an alpha dog/gamer personality and Kyrie has more of a passive attitude. They are both equally pouty.


I'd be pretty upset if the cavs dealt waiters. His potential is so high.

[Milbuck]

1) Oladipo is a rookie. Give him time.

2) I don't think anyone should've expected anything big out of McLemore and Ross.

3) Barnes' development got shafted by the dubs getting Iggy. If anything, Barnes in last year's playoffs when he got a chance was more impressive than anything Waiters has done.

Really the only surprising one is Beal. I really thought he was going to be great. He still has plenty of time, but he needs to pick it up.

[DukeDelonte13]

1) Oladipo is a rookie. Give him time.

2) I don't think anyone should've expected anything big out of McLemore and Ross.

3) Barnes' development got shafted by the dubs getting Iggy. If anything, Barnes in last year's playoffs when he got a chance was more impressive than anything Waiters has done.

Really the only surprising one is Beal. I really thought he was going to be great. He still has plenty of time, but he needs to pick it up.


that's just straight up dumb. He went off when Tony Parker was checking him. Barnes has like maybe 5-7 career 20 point games while Dion puts one up every third game or so. Dion has taken over games as the number one option on the floor. Barnes is at best the 3rd or 4th option on the floor at any given time.

[Jameerthefear]

Waiters is a far more complete and dynamic offensive player that Dipo is. Maybe one day he will be the better player, but he doesn't have a fraction of the talent that Waiters does. Dipo has the 10x better attitude though.



Waiters isn't that far off of Kyrie talent wise. He has the potential to be a better defender but he's doesn't bring on on the defensive end consistently enough yet. Dion's more of an alpha dog/gamer personality and Kyrie has more of a passive attitude. They are both equally pouty.


I'd be pretty upset if the cavs dealt waiters. His potential is so high.
I don't care. Oladipo scores the same at similar %s and will likely be the more efficient offensive player since he's aggressive and likes to get into the paint more. Not to mention he's the better passer, rebounder, and the much better defender. It really isn't that close. Oladipo's potential far outweighs Waiters.

[outbreak]

Isn't oladipo shooting 45%?

[Jameerthefear]

Isn't oladipo shooting 45%?
Nope. 41%. That mostly results from early in the season games though. I think it will jump quite a bit. Especially if he keeps up his current pace

[ballup]

1% less fg% means worse player. Ok.

Beal and Ross shoot a solid one more 3 a game than Waiters. Oladipo is a rookie and Waiters didn't have much better stats in his rookie year. Not sure why you would compare a sophomore and a rookie for a "who'd I'd pick over the other".

Also, Learn to round. 0.406 equates to 41%, but yes, Harrrison Barnes is hitting a wall this season. Your little comparison is pretty bad regardless. :durantunimpressed:

[noob cake]

Tbh, I have never hated on Waiters despite being a massive Irving fan.

Out of that list, I'll take Beal over Waiters.

Olapido is an another result of the media created player ala Paul George, Derrick Rose. Hype up Dipo to make Bennett look like the biggest bust ever? I don't think so :no:

[Jameerthefear]

Tbh, I have never hated on Waiters despite being a massive Irving fan.

Out of that list, I'll take Beal over Waiters.

Olapido is an another result of the media created player ala Paul George, Derrick Rose. Hype up Dipo to make Bennett look like the biggest bust ever? I don't think so :no:
Media created? :roll: Stop.

[gyu]

Waiters is a far more complete and dynamic offensive player that Dipo is. Maybe one day he will be the better player, but he doesn't have a fraction of the talent that Waiters does. Dipo has the 10x better attitude though.



Waiters isn't that far off of Kyrie talent wise. He has the potential to be a better defender but he's doesn't bring on on the defensive end consistently enough yet. Dion's more of an alpha dog/gamer personality and Kyrie has more of a passive attitude. They are both equally pouty.


I'd be pretty upset if the cavs dealt waiters. His potential is so high.
Hard work beats talent when talent fails to work hard. I don't see Oladipo being a great player (Iguodala type player at best), but he will be better than Waiters.

[Jameerthefear]

Hard work beats talent when talent fails to work hard. I don't see Oladipo being a great player (Iguodala type player at best), but he will be better than Waiters.
Oladipo and Iggy have almost no similarities. Just stop. Oladipo is already better then Waiters and will be better then Iggy too.

[LoneyROY7]

You act like him shooting 42 percent is a positive...

Just b/c other people are sucking a tiny bit more, doesn't mean he's good.

[El Gato Negro]

People hate on waiters because he's a cav. has nothing to do with his playing, most the people that say bust see him play once or twice a year. but this is ish where most people who post have no actual basketball knowledge.

[outbreak]

Hard work beats talent when talent fails to work hard. I don't see Oladipo being a great player (Iguodala type player at best), but he will be better than Waiters.
Oladipo isn't like iggy really and he isn't getting media hype. People aren't hyping him up as an mvp or anything but it's hard not to be high on his elite defense and the drives he makes as a rookie. He needs refinement but he has shown a shit load of potential. Not a number one option but doesn't need to be, the main knocks on him are by products of playing at the point which isn't natural. He struggles with poor shots when he has to handle the ball late on the shot clock and while he's improving his handles and passing isn't really up to scratch to run the point yet.

[El Gato Negro]

Oladipo and Iggy have almost no similarities. Just stop. Oladipo is already better then Waiters and will be better then Iggy too.
This belongs in the stupid things people post thread.

[Milbuck]

that's just straight up dumb. He went off when Tony Parker was checking him. Barnes has like maybe 5-7 career 20 point games while Dion puts one up every third game or so. Dion has taken over games as the number one option on the floor. Barnes is at best the 3rd or 4th option on the floor at any given time.
Did it ever occur to you that Waiters puts up occasional 20 point games only because the Cavs suck balls?

How the **** is Barnes gonna be a number one option on a team with Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, David Lee, Iggy, and Bogut? If you seriously think Waiters is gonna be dropping 20 point games every other game on the Warriors, you're delusional. He's a good player, but his ass would be on the bench every single game, and he'd be lucky to crack 12-13ppg.

[outbreak]

People hate on waiters because he's a cav. has nothing to do with his playing, most the people that say bust see him play once or twice a year. but this is ish where most people who post have no actual basketball knowledge.
Waiters isn't a bust at all. He'll be a solid player and if he gets his head in the game he will be a good scorer I just don't see him being amazing in a league filled with one way scorers

[gyu]

By Iguodala type player I mean a glue guy, a 3rd option, a defensive stopper type of player.

Magic fans seem sensitive

[outbreak]

By Iguodala type player I mean a glue guy, a 3rd option, a defensive stopper type of player.

Magic fans seem sensitive
Yeah that makes more sense, I still think he has a chance at a higher cieliing though, I thought you meant he played like iggy

[El Gato Negro]

Did it ever occur to you that Waiters puts up occasional 20 point games only because the Cavs suck balls?

How the **** is Barnes gonna be a number one option on a team with Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, David Lee, Iggy, and Bogut? If you seriously think Waiters is gonna be dropping 20 point games every other game on the Warriors, you're delusional. He's a good player, but his ass would be on the bench every single game, and he'd be lucky to crack 12-13ppg.
As a bucks fan you have no room to talk, how many games have you actually seem waiters play in his two year career ? 3 or 4? ya that's what i thought.

[KyrieTheFuture]

Jameer is officially creep level stan of oladipo. I like Oladipo but he needs to work on his TOs and fouls considerably. Also, the magic have a pretty good team and their record really is atrocious but as a Cavs fan I can't really make that comment.

[Milbuck]

As a bucks fan you have no room to talk, how many games have you actually seem waiters play in his two year career ? 3 or 4? ya that's what i thought.
Exactly as I expected, didn't respond to anything I said with a legitimate argument. You'll just brush it off because I didn't say what you wanted to hear.

The fact is Waiters really isn't that good. He's good, but not as good as you think.

[Le Shaqtus]

Jameer is officially creep level stan of oladipo. I like Oladipo but he needs to work on his TOs and fouls considerably. Also, the magic have a pretty good team and their record really is atrocious but as a Cavs fan I can't really make that comment.

His TO's come from playing PG when he's really an SG, and he doesn't have that great ball security.

[Jameerthefear]

Jameer is officially creep level stan of oladipo. I like Oladipo but he needs to work on his TOs and fouls considerably. Also, the magic have a pretty good team and their record really is atrocious but as a Cavs fan I can't really make that comment.
LOL. Do you browse this forum? If I'm a stan then every fan who likes one of their players on their favorite team is one. You should know by now what a stan is. All I'm saying is the truth. The turnovers were mostly from the beginning of this year and he's vastly improved on that. Especially when you consider he is playing a position he isn't accustomed to. The fouling is from still not being in the NBA long enough to know what he can and can't get away with. That will go away definitely. He's an amazing defender regardless.

[PleezeBelieve]

People hate on waiters because he's a cav. has nothing to do with his playing, most the people that say bust see him play once or twice a year. but this is ish where most people who post have no actual basketball knowledge.
Ding, ding. This is the answer yet listen to these idiots make more excuses.

All of a sudden shooting %s don't matter :roll::roll::roll:

[PleezeBelieve]

Did it ever occur to you that Waiters puts up occasional 20 point games only because the Cavs suck balls?

How the **** is Barnes gonna be a number one option on a team with Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, David Lee, Iggy, and Bogut? If you seriously think Waiters is gonna be dropping 20 point games every other game on the Warriors, you're delusional. He's a good player, but his ass would be on the bench every single game, and he'd be lucky to crack 12-13ppg.
Ok, so he's playing with "better" talent -- with those "better" looks he's getting, why the fukk is he still shooting sub 41%??? :roll:

Man you dudes are fukking idiots. You should have never hated on Dion to begin with. Now you go pay. Fukkin Barnes can't shoot above 43% and he's now even creating his own offense. :oldlol:

[KyrieTheFuture]

LOL. Do you browse this forum? If I'm a stan then every fan who likes one of their players on their favorite team is one. You should know by now what a stan is. All I'm saying is the truth. The turnovers were mostly from the beginning of this year and he's vastly improved on that. Especially when you consider he is playing a position he isn't accustomed to. The fouling is from still not being in the NBA long enough to know what he can and can't get away with. That will go away definitely. He's an amazing defender regardless.
Yea, 70% of this forum creeps me the **** out with their one player obsession. My point is that he will be amazing, but he's not currently. And he still turns the ball over, my fantasy team makes me acutely aware of this.

[outbreak]

Jameer is officially creep level stan of oladipo. I like Oladipo but he needs to work on his TOs and fouls considerably. Also, the magic have a pretty good team and their record really is atrocious but as a Cavs fan I can't really make that comment.
He's been getting trolled by l.a fans hats lately so give him a pass. Cavs have talent but they need better support staff

[RedBlackAttack]

I'm getting a little tired of the Oladipo hype. Nothing sticks to this guy. I know he seems like a good guy and I even like some things about his game, but he has been just OK so far, nothing special.

For those saying, "he's just a rookie"... look:

Through the first 52 games as rookies:

Dion Waiters - 29.6 minutes, 14.8 points (41.2% FG, 31.5% 3PT, 77.2% FT), 3.2 assists, 2.4 rebounds, 1.0 steals, 2.0 turnovers

Victor Oladipo - 32.0 minutes, 13.8 points (41.3% FG, 29.6% 3PT, 77.2% FT), 4.0 assists, 4.4 rebounds, 1.6 steals, 3.2 turnovers


Oladipo is averaging more minutes, less points on similar efficiency. And, while he's also averaging more rebounds and assists, he's also putting up 3.2 turnovers a game, which is a very high number.

Oladipo is also almost a year older at the same point in their careers.

I don't know how you can take a step back, look at both guys, and make the statement that Oladipo has had clearly the better rookie year. For some reason, people love Oladipo and hate Waiters. It's weird.

[PleezeBelieve]

Cavs really should have drafted Barnes instead of Dion. Who wouldn't want 10 point 1 assist on 40% shooting every game from your SF :oldlol:

[Jameerthefear]

I'm getting a little tired of the Oladipo hype. Nothing sticks to this guy. I know he seems like a good guy and I even like some things about his game, but he has been just OK so far, nothing special.

For those saying, "he's just a rookie"... look:

Through the first 52 games as rookies:

Dion Waiters - 29.6 minutes, 14.8 points (41.2% FG, 31.5% 3PT, 77.2% FT), 3.2 assists, 2.4 rebounds, 1.0 steals, 2.0 turnovers

Victor Oladipo - 32.0 minutes, 13.8 points (41.3% FG, 29.6% 3PT, 77.2% FT), 4.0 assists, 4.4 rebounds, 1.6 steals, 3.2 turnovers


Oladipo is averaging more minutes, less points on similar efficiency. And, while he's also averaging more rebounds and assists, he's also putting up 3.2 turnovers a game, which is a very high number.

Oladipo is also almost a year older at the same point in their careers.

I don't know how you can take a step back, look at both guys, and make the statement that Oladipo has had clearly the better rookie year. For some reason, people love Oladipo and hate Waiters. It's weird.
Defense. People also consider the fact that he's been playing out of position most times.

[PleezeBelieve]

I'm getting a little tired of the Oladipo hype. Nothing sticks to this guy. I know he seems like a good guy and I even like some things about his game, but he has been just OK so far, nothing special.

For those saying, "he's just a rookie"... look:

Through the first 52 games as rookies:

Dion Waiters - 29.6 minutes, 14.8 points (41.2% FG, 31.5% 3PT, 77.2% FT), 3.2 assists, 2.4 rebounds, 1.0 steals, 2.0 turnovers

Victor Oladipo - 32.0 minutes, 13.8 points (41.3% FG, 29.6% 3PT, 77.2% FT), 4.0 assists, 4.4 rebounds, 1.6 steals, 3.2 turnovers


Oladipo is averaging more minutes, less points on similar efficiency. And, while he's also averaging more rebounds and assists, he's also putting up 3.2 turnovers a game, which is a very high number.

Oladipo is also almost a year older at the same point in their careers.

I don't know how you can take a step back, look at both guys, and make the statement that Oladipo has had clearly the better rookie year. For some reason, people love Oladipo and hate Waiters. It's weird.
But don't forget Oladipo's 'great' defensive ability. Hey, I've never seen it but people keeping saying it so it must be true :oldlol:

[KyrieTheFuture]

I'm getting a little tired of the Oladipo hype. Nothing sticks to this guy. I know he seems like a good guy and I even like some things about his game, but he has been just OK so far, nothing special.

For those saying, "he's just a rookie"... look:

Through the first 52 games as rookies:

Dion Waiters - 29.6 minutes, 14.8 points (41.2% FG, 31.5% 3PT, 77.2% FT), 3.2 assists, 2.4 rebounds, 1.0 steals, 2.0 turnovers

Victor Oladipo - 32.0 minutes, 13.8 points (41.3% FG, 29.6% 3PT, 77.2% FT), 4.0 assists, 4.4 rebounds, 1.6 steals, 3.2 turnovers


Oladipo is averaging more minutes, less points on similar efficiency. And, while he's also averaging more rebounds and assists, he's also putting up 3.2 turnovers a game, which is a very high number.

Oladipo is also almost a year older at the same point in their careers.

I don't know how you can take a step back, look at both guys, and make the statement that Oladipo has had clearly the better rookie year. For some reason, people love Oladipo and hate Waiters. It's weird.

LeBron James effect, even though he left he made us relevant enough to make fun of 3 years later.

[Jameerthefear]

But don't forget Oladipo's 'great' defensive ability. Hey, I've never seen it but people keeping saying it so it must be true :oldlol:

Yeah well you are an idiot so that's no surprise from anyone honestly.

[PleezeBelieve]

Defense. People also consider the fact that he's been playing out of position most times.
Oh sh*t, this weirdo beat me to it. :eek:

My man, you need to go outside and communicate with humans. You are a disturbing person. Seriously.

[RedBlackAttack]

Defense. People also consider the fact that he's been playing out of position most times.
...and Waiters and Kyrie are still trying to figure out how to fit together.

Waiters has shown some really nice things defensively. He has the build and athleticism to be good on that end. Has Oladipo really been that great defensively this year?

[KyrieTheFuture]

...and Waiters and Kyrie are still trying to figure out how to fit together.

Waiters has shown some really nice things defensively. He has the build and athleticism to be good on that end. Has Oladipo really been that great defensively this year?
Got pretty damn good steals and block numbers but as a straight up defender he struggles a bit (read: fouls)

[RedBlackAttack]

Got pretty damn good steals and block numbers but as a straight up defender he struggles a bit (read: fouls)
Yeah, from what I've seen, he hasn't quite lived up to his college reputation as being a lockdown defensive player. Not to say he isn't good, but certainly not great.

[outbreak]

...and Waiters and Kyrie are still trying to figure out how to fit together.

Waiters has shown some really nice things defensively. He has the build and athleticism to be good on that end. Has Oladipo really been that great defensively this year?
He has looked better than about of vets. Waiters isn't a slouch either though I just see his style as similar to alot of other average guards though. Really at their ages though it's impossible to tell, who thought george or stevenson would be having the seasons they are in their rookie years? Their all close enough that any could develop into a great and any could be a bust. The main point is making a thread claiming one is better than the other is silly. Pleezebelieve has a Rep for knocking other players to try and justify the cavs management issues.

[Jameerthefear]

...and Waiters and Kyrie are still trying to figure out how to fit together.

Waiters has shown some really nice things defensively. He has the build and athleticism to be good on that end. Has Oladipo really been that great defensively this year?
Yes. If you go back and watch the game against the Thunder last night, at times Oladipo was guarding Durant and even then did pretty well. Very good in the passing lanes and shot blocking too. When you stick him on an island with other guards he rarely gets beat.

[33teeth]

McLemore is not NBA ready and may never really pan out. If someone shooting a bit better than him is thread-worthy in your mind then I don't need to know much else about you.

:biggums:

[MP.Trey]

you disappointed of what you saw last year? He was a freaking rookie.
No sorry I didn't mean it that way. I meant his play this year has disappointed me considering how good he looked last year. But that's the case with all the young Cavaliers this year really.

[RedBlackAttack]

He has looked better than about of vets. Waiters isn't a slouch either though I just see his style as similar to alot of other average guards though. Really at their ages though it's impossible to tell, who thought george or stevenson would be having the seasons they are in their rookie years? Their all close enough that any could develop into a great and any could be a bust. The main point is making a thread claiming one is better than the other is silly. Pleezebelieve has a Rep for knocking other players to try and justify the cavs management issues.
I realize that...

At the same time, I think people are hesitant to give the Cavs any credit for anything, which is one of the main reasons Waiters has taken as much sh!t as he has over his first season and a half. Fact is, he has shown some things. Guys who've already bounced around the league from that draft like Thomas Robinson don't take half of the criticism Dion does from general fans.

And, people love guys who've had basically exactly the same production at this stage like Oladipo. I just think it's weird.

I understand the desire to troll PB, who is himself one of the biggest trolls on this site... but that only explains what happens in his threads.

[oarabbus]

Cavs really should have drafted Barnes instead of Dion. Who wouldn't want 10 point 1 assist on 40% shooting every game from your SF :oldlol:


:lol :lol :roll:

Barnes would be something like 15/8 easily on the Cavs. He averaged 16/6 in the playoffs and that's not unlikely on a garbage squad. You're comparing a guy who's off the bench on a playoff West team, vs. one of the WORST teams in the east.

[veilside23]

Meh if anything this is already his game it would improve maybe but it wont improve like ala paul george milestone if you think that would happen you have to be kidding me ... in other words his game is already made for the nba. unlike . mclemore and beal.

If anything dion is like a monta ellis kinda guy i am not saying they have the same style its just their game is already like a pro. he isnt a project like mclemore and beal. Ofcourse he would be better but look at teams record if he is so good how come they are lottery bound again ? people claim that they are arguably the best 1 and 2 combo but look at curry and thompson they have a winning record and they are in the west..

as for irving and waiters... hmmmm

maybe waiters is on a wrong team if anything.

but as of right now i wont judge beal and mclemore specially bmac who is just a rookie. everyone knew that mclemore had alot of things he needs to work on but despite that he was still considered because of his upside... i maybe wrong but i dont see a huge upside for waiters..

[outbreak]

I realize that...

At the same time, I think people are hesitant to give the Cavs any credit for anything, which is one of the main reasons Waiters has taken as much sh!t as he has over his first season and a half. Fact is, he has shown some things. Guys who've already bounced around the league from that draft like Thomas Robinson don't take half of the criticism Dion does from general fans.

And, people love guys who've had basically exactly the same production at this stage like Oladipo. I just think it's weird.

I understand the desire to troll PB, who is himself one of the biggest trolls on this site... but that only explains what happens in his threads.
If you read my posts I haven't been trolling. I agree waiters has talent, he's shown enough for me to think he could average 18-22pts a game in his prime. I like the cavs and I think the People hating on them forget they are a young team with poor management and a young pg who didn't play much college ball learning the ropes of leadership as he goes. If this team hasn't been hyped as trying to contend this season people would be talking about how muchyoung talent they have and how they need to fgel

[DukeDelonte13]

:lol :lol :roll:

Barnes would be something like 15/8 easily on the Cavs. He averaged 16/6 in the playoffs and that's not unlikely on a garbage squad. You're comparing a guy who's off the bench on a playoff West team, vs. one of the WORST teams in the east.

Barnes is not forced to create for himself like Dion Waiters is. Defenses don't focus their attention on Barnes like they do on Waiters. Saying that a player plays on a better team doesn't support the notion that one player is better than the other.

Barnes has not shown the ability that he can create his own offense. Dion creates for himself and others.

I like Barnes, and I like Oladipo, both are fine players. I just don't like the morons who think Dion is some sort of scrub. Dion's a beast.

[KyrieTheFuture]

:lol :lol :roll:

Barnes would be something like 15/8 easily on the Cavs. He averaged 16/6 in the playoffs and that's not unlikely on a garbage squad. You're comparing a guy who's off the bench on a playoff West team, vs. one of the WORST teams in the east.
I had no idea how anyone could believe this until I saw your avy. Homerism at it's finest. 15/8 LMAO.

[outbreak]

Barnes is not forced to create for himself like Dion Waiters is. Defenses don't focus their attention on Barnes like they do on Waiters. Saying that a player plays on a better team doesn't support the notion that one player is better than the other.

Barnes has not shown the ability that he can create his own offense. Dion creates for himself and others.

I like Barnes, and I like Oladipo, both are fine players. I just don't like the morons who think Dion is some sort of scrub. Dion's a beast.
The only knock on Dion is the reports of his attitude and dedication. He had the talent just needs someone to get him into a good mental state

[veilside23]

I had no idea how anyone could believe this until I saw your avy. Homerism at it's finest. 15/8 LMAO.


are you saying 15/8 for barnes in the east is a reach ?

[KyrieTheFuture]

are you saying 15/8 for barnes in the east is a reach ?
Yes.

And averaging 8 boards for him at all is ludicrous. That would make him the best rebounding SF in the league I think

EDIT: His "amazing" performance in the playoffs was 16 and 6 in nearly 38.5 minutes a game. He would not do better than that on this team

[PleezeBelieve]

LMAO @ arbitrarily making numbers up to make a point.

[veilside23]

Yes.

And averaging 8 boards for him at all is ludicrous. That would make him the best rebounding SF in the league I think

EDIT: His "amazing" performance in the playoffs was 16 and 6 in nearly 38.5 minutes a game. He would not do better than that on this team

Rebounds yes that would be a reach but points meh... on a cavs team... yes he can produce more than 15 points a game..

[PleezeBelieve]

Who cares if he can score 15 points. He doesn't create his own offense and has no ability to be a playmaker from the wing.

No one 'missed' on this guy during the draft which was the point ISH tried to make a year ago. He has some talent, but so what? He's not a core piece in any way, just a complimentary one.

[RedBlackAttack]

Who cares if he can score 15 points. He doesn't create his own offense and has no ability to be a playmaker from the wing.

No one 'missed' on this guy during the draft which was the point ISH tried to make a year ago. He has some talent, but so what? He's not a core piece in any way, just a complimentary one.

This is fair and I agree.

[KyrieTheFuture]

Rebounds yes that would be a reach but points meh... on a cavs team... yes he can produce more than 15 points a game..
I suppose he could, but he's hardly someone to kick yourself over missing out on. I was fully aboard the Drummond bandwagon after he played Cuse before he went to the draft. I will forever hate that we didn't take him.

[RedBlackAttack]

I suppose he could, but he's hardly someone to kick yourself over missing out on. I was fully aboard the Drummond bandwagon after he played Cuse before he went to the draft. I will forever hate that we didn't take him.
It could have been better (Drummond) and it could have been worse (TRob/Rivers).

If you go back and read the threads, I was fully on board with Drummond and I never understood why he wasn't given a close look by the Cavs or other teams after Davis was taken.

Still, Waiters hardly classifies as a "bust" or a "miss" when you look at that draft board. He has been one of the more productive players to come out in 2012 and in games like last night, I see a guy who has a pretty high ceiling if he could ever put it all together.

[JohnFreeman]

I would take Beal any day over him. I hear he has a bad attitude as well

[no pun intended]

PB and his Waiters obsession.

Nothing to see here.

[nzahir]

All of them dont need the ball to be successful, waiters does. Id have all of them over dion except mclemore, for now. They play better d, especially barnes and oladipo, they are better fits.

[Boarder Patrol]

There's a reason everyone bashes the Waiters pick. It sucked.

He's an 8th-9th man.

[Miller for 3]

Yeah, from what I've seen, he hasn't quite lived up to his college reputation as being a lockdown defensive player. Not to say he isn't good, but certainly not great.

Try watching a Magic game. Last night is a good one, he completes shuts down Reggie Jackson and even guards a 7 footer who is leading the league in scoring.

When Waiters can guard his own shadow maybe then it can be a legit discussion

[PleezeBelieve]

All of them dont need the ball to be successful, waiters does. Id have all of them over dion except mclemore, for now. They play better d, especially barnes and oladipo, they are better fits.
They're all catch and shoot dudes yet can't shoot better than Waiters.

Yet you think that is a flaw for Waiters

You're am idiot. More bull sh*t excuses

[RedBlackAttack]

Try watching a Magic game. Last night is a good one, he completes shuts down Reggie Jackson and even guards a 7 footer who is leading the league in scoring.

When Waiters can guard his own shadow maybe then it can be a legit discussion
I've watched the Magic play a few times. In fact, I watched Waiters drop 21 and 17 on Dipo the two times they played this season. No, I didn't think he looked like an extraordinary defensive player, at least not his one-on-one defense.

Meanwhile, I'm sure you're completely qualified to criticize Waiters' defense. It always cracks me up when people say, "You should watch more ____" and then proceed to make a statement about a player they've barely watched.

[ballup]

They're all catch and shoot dudes yet can't shoot better than Waiters.

Yet you think that is a flaw for Waiters

You're am idiot. More bull sh*t excuses
Both Ross and Beal shoot more 3s at a better percentages than Waiters.

[PleezeBelieve]

Both Ross and Beal shoot more 3s at a better percentages than Waiters.
Beal shoots better from outside the 3 point line than he does from 2 point range. What's your point? lol

[BrownEye007]

I don't care. Oladipo scores the same at similar %s and will likely be the more efficient offensive player since he's aggressive and likes to get into the paint more. Not to mention he's the better passer, rebounder, and the much better defender. It really isn't that close. Oladipo's potential far outweighs Waiters.
Oladipo isn't and probably never will be better than Waiters. Maybe defensively but that's about it. And no dipo is not the better passer. If he is it isn't by much.

[BrownEye007]

Exactly as I expected, didn't respond to anything I said with a legitimate argument. You'll just brush it off because I didn't say what you wanted to hear.

The fact is Waiters really isn't that good. He's good, but not as good as you think.
He might not be that good but he's a lot better than Giannis :eek:

[ballup]

Beal shoots better from outside the 3 point line than he does from 2 point range. What's your point? lol
You are pretty dim to not realize that fg% includes 3s and unless you shoot 45%+ on 3s, your fg% is going to go down by shooting so many.

[Jameerthefear]

Oladipo isn't and probably never will be better than Waiters. Maybe defensively but that's about it. And no dipo is not the better passer. If he is it isn't by much.
Yeah you don't watch the Orlando Magic. Ignore list.

[outbreak]

I've watched the Magic play a few times. In fact, I watched Waiters drop 21 and 17 on Dipo the two times they played this season. No, I didn't think he looked like an extraordinary defensive player, at least not his one-on-one defense.

Meanwhile, I'm sure you're completely qualified to criticize Waiters' defense. It always cracks me up when people say, "You should watch more ____" and then proceed to make a statement about a player they've barely watched.

Didn't oladipo get kyrie in those match ups?

And people saying oladipo is a catch and shoot guy haven't seen him play at all

[BrownEye007]

Yeah you don't watch the Orlando Magic. Ignore list.
Bitch please I watch more of the Magic than you do anime. Certainly more than you've ever watched of the Cavs. Oh and :cry: