Kobe "longevity"

[Quickening]

He has been irrelevant since 2011, and he became an elite player in 2001... so he was an elite (top 6 player) for around 9 years. People always go on, like he has been amazing for 20 years, he has just had a pretty standard career when you don't have any major injuries... started declining heavily around 32 years old, has been irrelevant since, and wasn't elite at a super early age.

For example Lebron has been a top 6 player since he was around 20... so he already has as many elite years as Kobe:confusedshrug:

[MichaelCorleone]

kobe has longevity?

http://replygif.net/i/747.gif

[Mr. Jabbar]

Last season (2013) he had a case for best player in the league and was #1 on every eye-test rank, 2000-2013 godbes league

[moe94]

Last season (2013) he had a case for best player in the league and was #1 on every eye-test rank, 2000-2013 godbes league

:roll:

[Quickening]

Last season (2013) he had a case for best player in the league and was #1 on every eye-test rank, 2000-2013 godbes league

:lol :oldlol: Shot jacking on poor efficiency, whilst being a turnstile on defence and team cancer.

He wasn't in the top 20 players last year.

[red1]

Last season (2013) he had a case for best player in the league and was #1 on every eye-test rank, 2000-2013 godbes league
http://s3.amazonaws.com/br-cdn/temp_images/2014/01/24/KOBEFACEPALM.gif

[TheMarkMadsen]

He has been irrelevant since 2011, and he became an elite player in 2001... so he was an elite (top 6 player) for around 9 years. People always go on, like he has been amazing for 20 years, he has just had a pretty standard career when you don't have any major injuries... started declining heavily around 32 years old, and has been irrelevant since.

For example Lebron has been a top 6 player since he was around 19... so he already has as many elite years as Kobe:confusedshrug:



He has been irrelevant since 2011

he was first team all nba last year. Next


and he became an elite player in 2001

All NBA team since 99. Next


started declining heavily around 32 years old

First team all NBA at 33 and again at 34. Next

[Quickening]

he was first team all nba last year. Next



All NBA team since 99. Next



First team all NBA at 33 and again at 34. Next

Are those awards suppose to mean something? He also got on all defensive teams even though he has been poor most of his career.:confusedshrug:

[Black and White]

While best player in the league is a stretch, he carried the Lakers and was the best SG in the league thats for sure.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Are those awards suppose to mean something? He also got on all defensive teams even though he has been poor most of his career.:confusedshrug:

I dont know do MVP's mean anything?

[outbreak]

Last season (2013) he had a case for best player in the league and was #1 on every eye-test rank, 2000-2013 godbes league
:biggums:

[TheMarkMadsen]

http://s3.amazonaws.com/br-cdn/temp_images/2014/01/24/KOBEFACEPALM.gif


Best player in the league: 25.5/7.6/6.9


Kobe Bryant: 27.3/5.6/6

[coin24]

He has been irrelevant since 2011, and he became an elite player in 2001... so he was an elite (top 6 player) for around 9 years. People always go on, like he has been amazing for 20 years, he has just had a pretty standard career when you don't have any major injuries... started declining heavily around 32 years old, has been irrelevant since, and wasn't elite at a super early age.

For example Lebron has been a top 6 player since he was around 20... so he already has as many elite years as Kobe:confusedshrug:

Someone's upset cause brans declining already:oldlol:

[secund2nun]

He has remained the most overrated athlete ever for years and it will remain that way for years. His longevity is unmatched..his legacy secured.

[red1]

Best player in the league: 25.5/7.6/6.9


Kobe Bryant: 27.3/5.6/6
he has good longevity no doubt but case for best player that year is a bit of a stretch

[imnew09]

Played no more than 10 games this season yet haters are still talking about him because of insecurity of their fav player.

Kobe the one and only. Godbe making haters hate since he entered the league

[Boarder Patrol]

LeBron stans arguing Kobe didn't have longevity?

Just quit. You've made every opinion you've ever had and ever will have completely worthless :roll:

:biggums:

[chazzy]

Isn't he tied for the most 1st team all NBA selections?

[coin24]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iY9HjNWbJvA

[BlackVVaves]

I sorely wish we could just lock the likes of MichaelCor, griff, Quickening, and the other mentally handicap stans of Kobe and Bron into a thread and nuke it into oblivion.

I can live with a couple of decades of nuclear winter if it means I never have to read you half-wits' posts again.

[Mr.Kite]

Are those awards suppose to mean something? He also got on all defensive teams even though he has been poor most of his career.:confusedshrug:

I can tell you espn don't vote for all nba teams

[Quickening]

LeBron stans arguing Kobe didn't have longevity?

Just quit. You've made every opinion you've ever had and ever will have completely worthless :roll:

:biggums:

Kobe stans act like his longevity should put him above top ten players in the rankings... I was just putting it out there that he doesn't actually have exception longevity :confusedshrug:

[BlackVVaves]

Kobe stans act like his longevity should put him above top ten players in the rankings... I was just putting it out there that he doesn't actually have exception longevity :confusedshrug:

No, you're just a feeble minded child, just like the rest of your lot.

Kobe was the best 2 guard in the league last year, and even if you sensationalize his defensive deficiencies and prompt Wade up because of his defensive effectiveness (which is definitely a fair assessment), he still was at worst tied with Wade atop the ladder of shooting guards. He had some tremendous games for a 34 year old guard last year, and was everything but irrelevant. To say he was not a top 20 player when most objective observers ranked him in the top 5-6 in the league is indictive of your lack of cognitive sense.

The season before he was wildly inefficient shooting the ball, thanks to an injury he sustained to his wrist in the preseason that he refused to miss time for to heal, and generally poor shot selection. I wouldn't say he was irrelevant, but he certainly wasn't dominant, and deserves criticism for his play (though, again, he was performing with an injured wrist).

So, if you include this injury ridden season, that's two seasons out of the last 13 years that Kobe didn't exhibit dominance throughout the season. That reads sustained production at an elite level to me, and thus you are a fool for serenading us with your troll endeavors.

[Quickening]

No, you're just a feeble minded child, just like the rest of your lot.

Kobe was the best 2 guard in the league last year, and even if you sensationalize his defensive deficiencies and prompt Wade up because of his defensive effectiveness (which is definitely a fair assessment), he still was at worst tied with Wade atop the ladder of shooting guards. He had some tremendous games for a 34 year old guard last year, and was everything but irrelevant. To say he was not a top 20 player when most objective observers ranked him in the top 5-6 in the league is indictive of your lack of cognitive sense.

The season before he was wildly inefficient shooting the ball, thanks to an injury he sustained to his wrist in the preseason that he refused to miss time for to heal, and generally poor shot selection. I wouldn't say he was irrelevant, but he certainly wasn't dominant, and deserves criticism for his play (though, again, he was performing with an injured wrist).

So, if you include this injury ridden season, that's two seasons out of the last 13 years that Kobe didn't exhibit dominance throughout the season. That reads sustained production at an elite level to me, and thus you are a fool for serenading us with your troll endeavors.

There isn't necessarily a huge difference between being the 6th best player in the NBA and the 20th... I personally can't have a player who is a complete liability on the defensive end, and yes that is what Kobe was... as a top 5 player, defence is a huge part of the game. Especially if he isn't efficient on the offensive end.

Your one line says everything " He had some tremendous games for a 34 year old guard last year"... but it isn't just 34 year olds and above he is competing against, age is irrelevant. If a 25 year old played like Kobe last season, he would just be called a worse version of Melo. People thought Kobe was completely finished, and thus magnified his performances into something they weren't.

[MVBallin2K]

There isn't necessarily a huge difference between being the 6th best player in the NBA and the 20th... I personally can't have a player who is a complete liability on the defensive end, and yes that is what Kobe was... as a top 5 player, defence is a huge part of the game. Especially if he isn't efficient on the offensive end.

Your one line says everything " He had some tremendous games for a 34 year old guard last year"... but it isn't just 34 year olds and above he is competing against, age is irrelevant. If a 25 year old played like Kobe last season, he would just be called a worse version of Melo. People thought Kobe was completely finished, and thus magnified his performances into something they weren't.

I'd be impressed by anyone who guaranteed a playoffs spot despite a bad record and being laughed at by critics for doing so, then proceeding to do so. Dude gave his achilles towards getting them there and his performance when his team went down and he hit shots to bring them back late in games would be impressive for ANY player, regardless of age.

The word irreverent is strong. Kobe had stretches in games where he had to guard guys like Kyrie and Brandon Jennings and shut them down despite their speed. You can say that the team should have achieved more last year and it's a fair point but you can't just point the finger at Kobe. The entire dynamic of the team chemistry was just off and not a fit.

One game last year for Kobe involved him getting 42 points, 11 assists and 7 boards with 14 of 21 shooting. No player who can do that is irrelevant, young or old. If so, guess KD's near trip double today with over 40 points is irrelevant.

[Black and White]

I'd be impressed by anyone who guaranteed a playoffs spot despite a bad record and being laughed at by critics for doing so, then proceeding to do so. Dude gave his achilles towards getting them there and his performance when his team went down and he hit shots to bring them back late in games would be impressive for ANY player, regardless of age.

The word irreverent is strong. Kobe had stretches in games where he had to guard guys like Kyrie and Brandon Jennings and shut them down despite their speed. You can say that the team should have achieved more last year and it's a fair point but you can't just point the finger at Kobe. The entire dynamic of the team chemistry was just off and not a fit.

One game last year for Kobe involved him getting 42 points, 11 assists and 7 boards with 14 of 21 shooting. No player who can do that is irrelevant, young or old. If so, guess KD's near trip double today with over 40 points is irrelevant.

:applause: owned all the LeStans

[Mr. Jabbar]

I'd be impressed by anyone who guaranteed a playoffs spot despite a bad record and being laughed at by critics for doing so, then proceeding to do so. Dude gave his achilles towards getting them there and his performance when his team went down and he hit shots to bring them back late in games would be impressive for ANY player, regardless of age.

The word irreverent is strong. Kobe had stretches in games where he had to guard guys like Kyrie and Brandon Jennings and shut them down despite their speed. You can say that the team should have achieved more last year and it's a fair point but you can't just point the finger at Kobe. The entire dynamic of the team chemistry was just off and not a fit.

One game last year for Kobe involved him getting 42 points, 11 assists and 7 boards with 14 of 21 shooting. No player who can do that is irrelevant, young or old. If so, guess KD's near trip double today with over 40 points is irrelevant.

You gotta lower the dose of that ether, it's criminal :bowdown:

[Quickening]

I'd be impressed by anyone who guaranteed a playoffs spot despite a bad record and being laughed at by critics for doing so, then proceeding to do so. Dude gave his achilles towards getting them there and his performance when his team went down and he hit shots to bring them back late in games would be impressive for ANY player, regardless of age.

The word irreverent is strong. Kobe had stretches in games where he had to guard guys like Kyrie and Brandon Jennings and shut them down despite their speed. You can say that the team should have achieved more last year and it's a fair point but you can't just point the finger at Kobe. The entire dynamic of the team chemistry was just off and not a fit.

One game last year for Kobe involved him getting 42 points, 11 assists and 7 boards with 14 of 21 shooting. No player who can do that is irrelevant, young or old. If so, guess KD's near trip double today with over 40 points is irrelevant.
So you're using a 1 game performance, scraping playoffs on stacked team and injuring himself as proof he was elite. You told me!

[Jameerthefear]

Eww. I can't do it. I can't troll to the point where I'm straight up delusional like the OP is being. Kobe Bryant last year was the pretty much consensus best shooting guard in the league. If you had Wade over him, it was only because of defense. The Lakers dismal year last year was a part of Dwight not playing up to par, injuries, and defense (only thing you can really put on Kobe). This is dumb. Kobe has amazing longevity.

[MVBallin2K]

So you're using a 1 game performance, scraping playoffs on stacked team and injuring himself as proof he was elite. You told me!

I knew you'd say this, so let's go to his next game against Toronto, shall we? 41 points on 11 of 22 shooting, 5 of 10 from deep. Oh and add in 12 assists and 6 boards. Great game featuring him hitting clutch shots to win...but that's only my word right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-sqgJTozO8


He had over 5 games of 40 point games last year...that's not even counting a string of 30 point ones. Explain to me how that makes someone irrelevant? I'm not even saying Kobe was the best player last year but don't come and say that someone is irrelevant without actually doing the homework.

[kennethgriffin]

1997-98 - starting allstar/torch passing game/ "the air apparent" - ammad rashad / "he got the torch" - isiah thomas ... leader of western confrence allstars. takes over game. coming out party

emerges as one of the leagues best and most popular icons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OU45S6vjnBg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzMWKo0uDu8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmT5Y3ni3iI



1999

2000

2001

2002

2003

2004

2005

2006

2007

2008

2009

2010

2011

2012

2013 -

nearly 2 full decades later

1st team all nba/arguably the 2nd or 3rd most impressive regular season

27ppg/6reb/6ast per game

[CelticBaller]

Lol who ever agrees with op is an idiot, Kobe's been a top player since 99, wether you like him or not

[Cold soul]

Kobe longevity is only rivaled by Kareem and Malone that's it.

[talkingconch]

How can he be irrelevant since 2011 when he had one of his best seasons last season? And also be top 3 next to prime lebron who was 1 lol...

stop making crap up, your not even trolling, just annoying jesus

[SexSymbol]

Eww. I can't do it. I can't troll to the point where I'm straight up delusional like the OP is being. Kobe Bryant last year was the pretty much consensus best shooting guard in the league. If you had Wade over him, it was only because of defense. The Lakers dismal year last year was a part of Dwight not playing up to par, injuries, and defense (only thing you can really put on Kobe). This is dumb. Kobe has amazing longevity.

lol this is too deep for jameer

[DMAVS41]

Kobe was not elite in 99...stop it.

He didn't even truly enter his prime until 01.

He had stretch from 01 through 10 in which he was elite...except for 05 really...

So if you count 00 through 13....really don't think we can't count all the years in there, but just for simplicity sake...that is a really solid 13 or 14 year of being really good. With 10 of the years being elite

It's great, but not the best longevity ever.

I'd take Duncan's longevity actually. 98 through 08 without really seeing any real dip. Slight dip in 09 and 10...then really solid to great play (another elite year in 13) outside of 11.

all told...that is like 11 or 12 elite years and a really solid 14 year span.

shit...Dirk has been great since 01...that is 14 years...although can't really count last year. So that is 13 years....add a year if you count 99 for Kobe as 00 Dirk was every bit as good as 99 Kobe

Also, Kobe has missed like double the amount of games Dirk has for their careers. Until last year...Dirk had never missed more than 9 games in a season

[J Shuttlesworth]

How can he be irrelevant since 2011 when he had one of his best seasons last season? And also be top 3 next to prime lebron who was 1 lol...

stop making crap up, your not even trolling, just annoying jesus
See, that's the problem... If 2012-13 was one of Kobe's best seasons, then LeBron's worst season is better than one of Kobe's best :biggums:

[tpols]

Hes gonna finish top 3 all time scoring leader.. both for Regular Season + Playoffs

How can you NOT have impressive longevity and do that?:oldlol:


Funny the other guys are Mailman.. KAJ.. highly touted for their longevity.

[DMAVS41]

Hes gonna finish top 3 all time scoring leader.. both for Regular Season + Playoffs

How can you NOT have impressive longevity and do that?:oldlol:


Funny the other guys are Mailman.. KAJ.. highly touted for their longevity.

Who said it's not impressive? Of course it's impressive...

[tpols]

Who said it's not impressive? Of course it's impressive...
Did you even read the thread OP? Guys trying to downplay it.. no one ever said it was best ever. It is one of the best ever.. thats pretty much a fact.



To say its 'overrated' is to assume that people were saying Kobe's got the best longevity ever bar none.. when has that ever been a mainstream notion? Never.

In fact.. its usually haters that use it as an argument against Kobe.. Bring up 3rd all time playoff points.. "Its just longevity! He was never top 3 playoff performer!" Gotta make up your mind.

[Deuce Bigalow]

16X All-star (2ND MOST ALLTIME BEHIND KAREEM)

11X All-NBA First team (MOST ALL-TIME TIED WITH K.MALONE)

11X Top 5 MVP voting (2ND MOST ALL-TIME BEHIND KAREEM, TIED WITH RUSSELL)

"longevity"

[talkingconch]

See, that's the problem... If 2012-13 was one of Kobe's best seasons, then LeBron's worst season is better than one of Kobe's best :biggums:
Kobe in his 16th year was top 3. Lebron was in his peak

Let that sink in for a min

[daily]

He has been irrelevant since 2011, and he became an elite player in 2001... so he was an elite (top 6 player) for around 9 years. People always go on, like he has been amazing for 20 years, he has just had a pretty standard career when you don't have any major injuries... started declining heavily around 32 years old, has been irrelevant since, and wasn't elite at a super early age.

For example Lebron has been a top 6 player since he was around 20... so he already has as many elite years as Kobe:confusedshrug:

The dumbing down of ISH continues

[coin24]

Eww. I can't do it. I can't troll to the point where I'm straight up delusional like the OP is being. Kobe Bryant last year was the pretty much consensus best shooting guard in the league. If you had Wade over him, it was only because of defense. The Lakers dismal year last year was a part of Dwight not playing up to par, injuries, and defense (only thing you can really put on Kobe). This is dumb. Kobe has amazing longevity.

Whoa:applause: :applause: :applause:

[The-Legend-24]

Dude has a case for goat longevity.

[gin17]

are stans so insecure as to waste their time convincing themselves and making these kinds of threads? :confusedshrug:

[rhythmic]

Top 5 player:
2001-2004, 2006-2012 (11 years, arguably 12 if you include 2000)
2006-08 (3 years as the undisputed best, could be argued for 2003, 2009 & 2010 as well)

Won player of the decade in a landslide; is the most vocally respected among his peers & coaches. Seriously, no one has gotten as much love as Kobe outside of this forum. The dude has cemented himself as a legend.

Guy has punked Duncan far too often throughout his career (head to head); has achieved more accolades and has a better winning percentage against him in the playoffs. Has more titles as well. The FMVP & MVP aren't the deciding factor considering Steve Nash has more MVPs than Shaquille when he has never even sniffed the finals in his 15+ year career.

[DMAVS41]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[kennethgriffin]

Kobe was not elite in 99...stop it.

He didn't even truly enter his prime until 01.

He had stretch from 01 through 10 in which he was elite...except for 05 really...

So if you count 00 through 13....really don't think we can't count all the years in there, but just for simplicity sake...that is a really solid 13 or 14 year of being really good. With 10 of the years being elite

It's great, but not the best longevity ever.

I'd take Duncan's longevity actually. 98 through 08 without really seeing any real dip. Slight dip in 09 and 10...then really solid to great play (another elite year in 13) outside of 11.

all told...that is like 11 or 12 elite years and a really solid 14 year span.

shit...Dirk has been great since 01...that is 14 years...although can't really count last year. So that is 13 years....add a year if you count 99 for Kobe as 00 Dirk was every bit as good as 99 Kobe

Also, Kobe has missed like double the amount of games Dirk has for their careers. Until last year...Dirk had never missed more than 9 games in a season


1999 kobe is pretty underrated

20ppg/5rpg/4apg on 55%ts

3rd team all nba ( only guards better were prime iverson,kidd,payton,tim hardaway )



i think hes part of the elite there... wade makes 3rd teams on the regular most of his career... i thought he was known as somewhat elite

:confusedshrug:


and think of it this way.. you think that 20ppg doesnt go up to 25-28ppg if hes on his own team and not sharing with shaq/rice

[rhythmic]

See. This is the problem. You go way too far.

Kobe was not top 5 in 00...

And was not the clear cut best in any year of his career. Certainly not 06.

Quit preaching your opinion as fact, okay?
Every single person on this planet considered Kobe the best player in the league in 2006. Just because he played for a crappy team doesn't derail his skills.

In 2000, Kobe was a borderline top 5 player...he played great in the playoffs, on his way to helping LA win a title.

I go way too far?
You're the same idiot who thinks Duncan was better than Kobe last year, let that stupidity sink in.

[DMAVS41]

1999 kobe is pretty underrated

20ppg/5rpg/4apg on 55%ts

3rd team all nba ( only guards better were prime iverson,kidd,payton,tim hardaway )



i think hes part of the elite there... wade makes 3rd teams on the regular most of his career... i thought he was known as somewhat elite

:confusedshrug:

That isn't elite.

Current Wade is not elite. And current Wade when he plays is actually better than 99 Kobe.

[ImKobe]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CwCldjeEQA

show me another 34 year old doing this, tbh.

[Keno]

If Kobe was elite in 2000 then LeBron has been a top 3 player in the league since 2003. You can't have it both ways.

[DMAVS41]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[rhythmic]

LOL

He was...

And no, Kobe wasn't borderline top 5. Unless being borderline top 12 is top 5.

Kobe carried his team on his back in the last 2 months of the season; putting up one of his top 6/7 seasons of his career. Duncan was putting up solid numbers. Not a single NBA fan (besides you) would consider last year's Duncan better than last year's Kobe. Kobe was a top 5 players, if you think Duncan was even remotely close to that stature, then I don't know what you were watching.

Damn, I can't even remember more than five outstanding games from Duncan last year. He was getting limited minutes, inconsistent as hell but finished with a pretty impressive stat line for his age. But he was nowhere near Kobe's level...no...where...near.

So I don't know what crack pipe you're using today, must be some new shit the Russians created.

[215Philly]

Dude has a case for goat longevity.
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[DMAVS41]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[ImKobe]

Dude. Duncan was arguably the best defensive player in the league last year.

He put up 18/10/3 and anchored the 3rd best defense in the league...then played great while almost winning the title.

Kobe missed the playoffs and gave absolutely no effort defensively.

You are what is wrong with fans actually...thinking Kobe was clearly better than Duncan last year.

Almost doesn't count, Duncan missed a wide open layup and airballed the putback with less than a minute to go in a game 7, and he was apart of the worst choke in NBA history in Game 6.

[rhythmic]

Duncan: 17.8 PPG, 9.9 RPG, .502 FG%, 2.7 APG, 2.7 BPG
All-Star reserve, 1 player of the week honours, All-NBA 1st team, 7th in MVP voting (while having a far better record)
Bryant: 27.3 PPG, 5.6 RPG, 6.0 APG, 1.4 SPG
All-star starter, 3 player of the week honours, All-NBA 1st team, 5th in MVP voting

Yeah buddy, Duncan really was better than Kobe. :rolleyes:

[rhythmic]

Dude. Duncan was arguably the best defensive player in the league last year.

He put up 18/10/3 and anchored the 3rd best defense in the league...then played great while almost winning the title.

Kobe missed the playoffs and gave absolutely no effort defensively.

You are what is wrong with fans actually...thinking Kobe was clearly better than Duncan last year.

So Marc Gasol was also better than Kobe, you shit for brains?
Yeah Duncan really anchored that defense playing 30 minutes per game. They really needed him that much to have the best record in the league. Heck, SA had the best record and Kobe still finished higher than Duncan on the MVP ladder.

Keep fabricating your story, you're the biggest pile of shit on this forum and the reason I've literally stopped coming on here.

[DMAVS41]

So Marc Gasol was also better than Kobe, you shit for brains?
Yeah Duncan really anchored that defense playing 30 minutes per game. They really needed him that much to have the best record in the league. Heck, SA had the best record and Kobe still finished higher than Duncan on the MVP ladder.

Keep fabricating your story, you're the biggest pile of shit on this forum and the reason I've literally stopped coming on here.

I'm shit for brains?

Duncan put up 18/10/3 and then was the best player on a team that nearly won the title

Gasol averaged 14/8/4 in the regular season

Although Gasol was really good in the playoffs, but overall he just wasn't as good as Duncan or Kobe.

Dude...take a breath and look at the facts

Duncan 18/10/3 24.4 PER...anchors the 3rd best defense in the league and almost wins a title as the best player on his team in the playoffs

Kobe 27/6/6 23 PER...and literally doesn't even fake effort on defense. Is part of a huge letdown of a season.

Sorry, it's not fabrication to take Duncan last year...it's reality

[ImKobe]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[tpols]

Dude. Duncan was arguably the best defensive player in the league last year.

He put up 18/10/3 and anchored the 3rd best defense in the league...then played great while almost winning the title.

Kobe missed the playoffs and gave absolutely no effort defensively.

You are what is wrong with fans actually...thinking Kobe was clearly better than Duncan last year.

Duncan was shooting like 52TS before the Finals.. 49TS in the semis and WCF. 17/10 stats... Ive seen you crucify Wade for his 50TS sub 20ppg shooting but Duncan gets a pass.:oldlol:

I know Duncan brings more defensively but still.. the offense was pretty bad up until the Finals. You called Wade's 17 on ~50TS atrocious.. Duncan put the same shit up.


And when you consider Roy Hibbert dropped 22/10 against the Heat as a 12/8 player normally.. it makes Duncans numbers that much less impressive. Any center worth a shit could give Miami 20/10. Prime Jamal Magloire would look like Shaq.

[ImKobe]

I'm shit for brains?

Duncan put up 18/10/3 and then was the best player on a team that nearly won the title

Gasol averaged 14/8/4 in the regular season

Although Gasol was really good in the playoffs, but overall he just wasn't as good as Duncan or Kobe.

Nearly doesn't count, he choked when it mattered.

[rhythmic]

I'm shit for brains?

Duncan put up 18/10/3 and then was the best player on a team that nearly won the title

Gasol averaged 14/8/4 in the regular season

Although Gasol was really good in the playoffs, but overall he just wasn't as good as Duncan or Kobe.

Duncan played 2/3rd of the minutes on average for SA. His numbers were good but not as impressive as Kobe's. Of course the easy thing for you to do is talk about the intangibles (defense) and try to win an argument in the fashion, since you know the hard ass numbers all favor Kobe. Heck, not even numbers...the actual play of both of them (especially the last 2 months of the year) and their accolades. Kobe took a team that were 11 games below .500 and riddled with injuries and started carrying them on his shoulders till the last week of the season before his injury. LA during that span had a top 7 record post all-star break in large part to Kobe.

Dude played 45+ minutes almost every night while Pop was giving Duncan night's off for rest. Please STFU already.

[Audio One]

DMAVS on the real, is Kobe's biggest fan, low key. Just like Deuce Bigalow started showin' his love for Wilt, DMAVS/Gino will do it eventually as well, give it time :lol

[ImKobe]

DMAVS on the real, is Kobe's biggest fan, low key. Just like Deuce Bigalow started showin' his love for Wilt, DMAVS/Gino will do it eventually as well, give it time :lol

These guys literally hate on Kobe 24-7, holding him to ridiculous standards and leaving out half the stats, I wouldn't be surprised if all these haters loved him.

[Audio One]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[rhythmic]

Not to mention LA got swept in a pathetic fashion without Kobe, which just shows how little help he had all year. Yet with him, LA had one of the better records in the league after the all-star break.

I'm sure you remember that Raptors game? The Portland game?

[DMAVS41]

Duncan was shooting like 52TS before the Finals.. 49TS in the semis and WCF. 17/10 stats... Ive seen you crucify Wade for his 50TS sub 20ppg shooting but Duncan gets a pass.:oldlol:

I know Duncan brings more defensively but still.. the offense was pretty bad up until the Finals. You called Wade's 17 on ~50TS atrocious.. Duncan put the same shit up.


And when you consider Roy Hibbert dropped 22/10 against the Heat as a 12/8 player normally.. it makes Duncans numbers that much less impressive. Any center worth a shit could give Miami 20/10. Prime Jamal Magloire would look like Shaq.

You look at the entire body of work...why would you not ****ing include how a player plays in the finals? You really need to stop doing this...you always do it...you always say things like...."before the finals" or "not counting this"

You should count it all.

Also, you answered your own question. Duncan anchored the 3rd best defense in the regular season and then was great in the playoffs as well. That efficiency becomes far less of an issue when you also bring that to the table.

[ImKobe]

You look at the entire body of work...why would you not ****ing include how a player plays in the finals? You really need to stop doing this...you always do it...you always say things like...."before the finals" or "not counting this"

You should count it all.

Also, you answered your own question. Duncan anchored the 3rd best defense in the regular season and then was great in the playoffs as well. That efficiency becomes far less of an issue when you also bring that to the table.

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2818167/duncanmiss.gif

This is Tim Duncan's final memory of an NBA Finals

[DMAVS41]

Jesus Christ....

Kobe paid the price for all those minutes. Duncan could throw up huge numbers in those minutes as well...and he'd actually play defense.

The problem is that he'd wear down as well and get hurt like Kobe did and then miss a ton of time.

It's so meaningless...especially when you just rest completely on one side of the ball.

Kobe was great last year, but Duncan's year overall was better. He was one of the 2 or 3 best defensive forces in the league....

[215Philly]

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2818167/duncanmiss.gif

This is Tim Duncan's final memory of an NBA Finals
A Duncan hater :lol

[rhythmic]

Jesus Christ....

Kobe paid the price for all those minutes. Duncan could throw up huge numbers in those minutes as well...and he'd actually play defense.

The problem is that he'd wear down as well and get hurt like Kobe did and then miss a ton of time.

It's so meaningless...especially when you just rest completely on one side of the ball.

Kobe was great last year, but Duncan's year overall was better, in my opinion. He was one of the 2 or 3 best defensive forces in the league....

Lets end this discussion now.
You're in the minority on that. Stop talking like your opinion is facts.

[ImKobe]

Jesus Christ....

Kobe paid the price for all those minutes. Duncan could throw up huge numbers in those minutes as well...and he'd actually play defense.

The problem is that he'd wear down as well and get hurt like Kobe did and then miss a ton of time.

It's so meaningless...especially when you just rest completely on one side of the ball.

Kobe was great last year, but Duncan's year overall was better. He was one of the 2 or 3 best defensive forces in the league....

Duncan was done in the Finals after the first half in Game 6 and Game 7, they had to bench a top 3 defensive force when they needed a key defensive stop? The man can't play 40 minutes a game on a consistent basis anymore. Put Kobe in the Spurs system and give him all the rest in the world and limit his minutes to 30-32, you'd see him play better on both ends as well.

[Cold soul]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[DMAVS41]

Duncan was done in the Finals after the first half in Game 6 and Game 7, they had to bench a top 3 defensive force when they needed a key defensive stop? The man can't play 40 minutes a game on a consistent basis anymore. Put Kobe in the Spurs system and give him all the rest in the world and limit his minutes to 30-32, you'd see him play better on both ends as well.

No...you really wouldn't...

In 2011 Kobe played less than 34 minutes a game and showed no sign of trying defensively

Taking Duncan out of that game had nothing to do with his age...
Just stop it.

[ImKobe]

No...you really wouldn't...

In 2011 Kobe played less than 34 minutes a game and showed no sign of trying defensively

Taking Duncan out of that game had nothing to do with his age...
Just stop it.


Great, you're using the year Kobe played on one leg.

How many points did Duncan have in the 4th quarter and OT in that game? 0, how many points in the 2nd half after 25 in the 1st? A whopping 5 points.

[rhythmic]

No...you really wouldn't...

In 2011 Kobe played less than 34 minutes a game and showed no sign of trying defensively

Taking Duncan out of that game had nothing to do with his age...
Just stop it.

Oh yeah, lets compare the energy players consume in their mid 30's on the perimeter and in the low post. :roll:

This clown probably never even played actual basketball. Duncan plays a position that requires far less energy to play defense; heck his instinct and size alone alters shots inside. As a perimeter defender, you need far more energy to play strong defense on a consistent basis.

Kobe was terrible last years, outside of stretches. I remember late in the season he made some crucial stops on defense. The problem is, he was asked to play (and needed to) play 45+ minutes. He had to carry the load offensively so he naturally slacked off defensively. Plus, his position naturally doesn't have nearly the same impact as the center position does on defense. Sometimes I'd watch the Spurs play and literally not notice Duncan for an entire half. Plus he wet the bed in the playoffs, he was very mediocre and chocked in the finals.

So keep digging, I think you're at about 5 feet now.

[ImKobe]

Kobe in 2011 held his counterpart to a 12.8 PER and his opponent's eFG% was below league average. But I guess he played 0 defense. And the team with Kobe off the court played worse on the defensive end, allowing 3 more points per 100 possessions.

[DMAVS41]

Here is how retarded the argument is;

But Kobe put up better regular season numbers (even though he had a worse PER and played way worse defense)

Counter...what about the playoffs?

Kobe was hurt.

Counter...but he was hurt because of playing more minutes which produced the better numbers to begin with.

Kobe Da Gawd!!!!

:roll:

[DMAVS41]

Kobe in 2011 held his counterpart to a 12.8 PER and his opponent's eFG% was below league average. But I guess he played 0 defense. And the team with Kobe off the court played worse on the defensive end, allowing 3 more points per 100 possessions.

False.

In 2011.

The Lakers defensive rating with Kobe on the court was 102.8

The Lakers defensive rating with Kobe off the court was 97.9

[Audio One]

Here is how retarded the argument is;

But Kobe put up better regular season numbers (even though he had a worse PER and played way worse defense)

Counter...what about the playoffs?

Kobe was hurt.

Counter...but he was hurt because of playing more minutes which produced the better numbers to begin with.

Kobe Da Gawd!!!!

:roll:

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view1/3806936/sesame-street-letter-l-o.gif

Just take your L on this already

[rhythmic]

Here is how retarded the argument is;

But Kobe put up better regular season numbers (even though he had a worse PER and played way worse defense)

Counter...what about the playoffs?

Kobe was hurt.

Counter...but he was hurt because of playing more minutes which produced the better numbers to begin with.

Kobe Da Gawd!!!!

:roll:

Wrong dipshit, Kobe simply played better. Until you opened your mouth a few months ago, I have not heard a single NBA fan say Duncan was better than Kobe last year.

Kobe was more valuable to his team...put up better numbers...won more individual accolades. Duncan was mediocre in the playoffs, played 9 less minutes and took nights off. He clearly wasn't as valuable to his respective team as Kobe was.

PER? Yeah enough said.
PER is an accurate measure when comparing two players that play similar minutes...as "this" self-proclaimed genius basketball mind, I figured you'd know that.

Kobe played 9 more minutes than Duncan last season, PER is a terrible way to determine their impact. What Kobe did the last 2 months of the season shits all over anything Duncan has done last year. No one even considered Duncan one of the top 5 players...most considered Kobe either 3rd or 4th.

[DMAVS41]

Wrong dipshit, Kobe simply played better. Until you opened your mouth a few months ago, I have not heard a single NBA fan say Duncan was better than Kobe last year.

Kobe was more valuable to his team...put up better numbers...won more individual accolades. Duncan was mediocre in the playoffs, played 9 less minutes and took nights off. He clearly wasn't as valuable to his respective team as Kobe was.

PER? Yeah enough said.
PER is an accurate measure when comparing two players that play similar minutes...as this genius basketball mind, I figured you'd know that.

Kobe played 9 more minutes than Duncan last season, PER is a terrible way to determine their impact. What Kobe did the last 2 months of the season shits all over anything Duncan has done last year. No one even considered Duncan one of the top 5 players...most considered Kobe either 3rd or 4th.

But the reason Kobe put up better raw numbers is because he played more minutes....and then he missed the playoffs because he couldn't handle the minutes and wore down.

You can't have it both ways.

Also, you can't ignore the huge impact difference between an elite defensive anchor of the 3rd best defense in the league...and a perimeter defender that doesn't even fake trying defensively

Do you really not see how absurd your argument is.

So Duncan would be better in your eyes playing his 37 plus minutes a night putting up something like 22/12/3...and then wearing down and missing the entire playoffs? That makes no sense.

It's a terrible argument.

I don't care what people considered...Duncan's season last year was seriously under-rated until the end of the year when people started to take notice. Also, what you say just isn't true. People thought Duncan was great last year. He made first team all nba, 2nd team all defense...and finished 5th in dpoy voting.

How the **** did he do that if nobody thought he was great but me?

[ImKobe]

False.

In 2011.

The Lakers defensive rating with Kobe on the court was 102.8

The Lakers defensive rating with Kobe off the court was 97.9

This is false.

[ImKobe]

Here is how retarded the argument is;

But Kobe put up better regular season numbers (even though he had a worse PER and played way worse defense)

Counter...what about the playoffs?

Kobe was hurt.

Counter...but he was hurt because of playing more minutes which produced the better numbers to begin with.

Kobe Da Gawd!!!!

:roll:

Kobe didn't have to luxury of playing with a top 3 PG, a top 5 SG and one of the best coaching systems in the entire league.

[DMAVS41]

This is false.

No it isn't...I just took the time to look it up. Unless NBA.com is wrong...
http://stats.nba.com/teamOnOffSummary.html?TeamID=1610612747&Season=2010-11


82 games.com has different numbers but paints the exact same picture;

defensive rating on 106
defensive rating off 101.9
http://www.82games.com/1011/10LAL5.HTM

[rhythmic]

But the reason Kobe put up better raw numbers is because he played more minutes....and then he missed the playoffs because he couldn't handle the minutes and wore down.

You can't have it both ways.

Also, you can't ignore the huge impact difference between an elite defensive anchor of the 3rd best defense in the league...and a perimeter defender that doesn't even fake trying defensively

Do you really not see how absurd your argument is.

So Duncan would be better in your eyes playing his 37 plus minutes a night putting up something like 22/12/3...and then wearing down and missing the entire playoffs? That makes no sense.

It's a terrible argument.

I don't care what people considered...Duncan's season last year was seriously under-rated until the end of the year when people started to take notice. Also, what you say just isn't true. People thought Duncan was great last year. He made first team all nba, 2nd team all defense...and finished 5th in dpoy voting.

How the **** did he do that if nobody thought he was great but me?

Those 9 minutes do not make up for almost 10 extra points and over 3 assists you dumbass. Plus, I promise you if Duncan played 39 MPG, he wouldn't be as efficient which is why Pop gave him so much rest and played him for only 30 minutes.

THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT MAKES KOBE BETTER. :facepalm
He not only produced exceptional numbers while playing a lot of minutes, he did so as an old man and carried a team on his back to a great 2nd half record. Duncan was not as memorable no matter how many times you will repeat "defensive anchor" line.

Sorry, you're one of the few people that think Duncan was better. But you're the same guy that consistently belittles Kobe so I'm not surprised.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Mind is blown that someone could think Duncan was better than Kobe last year.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/6f4a983b5c9daf384dc62abb2db71add/tumblr_muqs58ZQlY1sib2dzo1_250.gif

[DMAVS41]

Those 9 minutes do not make up for almost 10 extra points and over 3 assists you dumbass. Plus, I promise you if Duncan played 39 MPG, he wouldn't be as efficient which is why Pop gave him so much rest and played him for only 30 minutes.

THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT MAKES KOBE BETTER. :facepalm
He not only produced exceptional numbers while playing a lot of minutes, he did so as an old man and carried a team on his back to a great 2nd half record. Duncan was not as memorable no matter how many times you will repeat "defensive anchor" line.

Sorry, you're one of the few people that think Duncan was better. But you're the same guy that consistently belittles Kobe so I'm not surprised.

But I never said Duncan would score more than Kobe.

Really...you bring up assists but not rebounds. It's all the same. In his 9 more minutes a game...Kobe combined for 12 rebounds/assists per game. Duncan combined for 13 rebounds/assists per game...

LOL...in 9 less minutes.

I swear you ****ing Kobe fans can't get past ppg. It never ends.

And again...stop ignoring anchoring an elite defense.

And I'm not the only one moron.

first team all nba, 2nd team all defense, 5th in defensive player of the year voting

and this;
http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2013/1/11/3864814/kobe-bryant-is-ruining-kobe-bryants-historic-season

but yea, i'm alone...

[DMAVS41]

Mind is blown that someone could think Duncan was better than Kobe last year.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/6f4a983b5c9daf384dc62abb2db71add/tumblr_muqs58ZQlY1sib2dzo1_250.gif

Would your mind be blown if someone took Duncan over Harden last year?

Can't wait to hear how Harden's 26/5/6 60% TS...and actually playing the playoffs is clearly worse than Kobe.

[rhythmic]

Kobe had more accolades and finished higher in MVP voting despite being at a far greater disadvantage (in terms of team record).

Jordan's epic 8 APG & 8 RPG season at SG would fall short to most all-star caliber PF's in the 90's if we were to compare their RPG/APG.

Heck Rodman in one season had more RPG than Jordan's 8 APG - 8 RPG season.

Does that makes Rodman's season better? :oldlol:
I swear the shit you say just makes me shake my head.

On average the discrepancy in RPG between a SG & PF/C is far bigger than their APG. Last year the discrepancy was 5.2 RPG & 1.7 APG for all players averaging at least 25 MPG.

Anything else?

[MadSolar]

Would your mind be blown if someone took Duncan over Harden last year?

Can't wait to hear how Harden's 26/5/6 60% TS...and actually playing the playoffs is clearly worse than Kobe.

James hardan was a no-show in the playoffs. He got shut down by KD and were about to get swept untill westbrook went down.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Would your mind be blown if someone took Duncan over Harden last year?

Can't wait to hear how Harden's 26/5/6 60% TS...and actually playing the playoffs is clearly worse than Kobe.
Not as mind blowning tbh.

Dude Kobe was arguably the 3rd best player in the league last year. How do you think he finished 5th in mvp voting despite his team getting the 7th seed? You remember the game @Dallas when Dallas was on a roll and looking to make the playoffs but Kobe dominates the 4th quarter with daggars. What about the 3 3s vs toronto? Or the 20pt 4th quarter comeback vs hornets? I could go on but there's no point.

[DMAVS41]

James hardan was a no-show in the playoffs. He got shut down by KD and were about to get swept untill westbrook went down.

And Kobe literally did not show up in the playoffs. How is being hurt and missing the playoffs better than actually playing and putting up 26/7/5 55% TS

[DMAVS41]

Not as mind blowning tbh.

Dude Kobe was arguably the 3rd best player in the league last year. How do you think he finished 5th in mvp voting despite his team getting the 7th seed? You remember the game @Dallas when Dallas was on a roll and looking to make the playoffs but Kobe dominates the 4th quarter with daggars. What about the 3 3s vs toronto? Or the 20pt 4th quarter comeback vs hornets? I could go on but there's no point.

Oh...I thought Kobe was great last year. Definitely in my top 5 for regular season. It's just that Duncan was in there as well.

And then Duncan actually played in the playoffs and was great overall in the playoffs as well. Certainly better than not playing a single game.


There is nothing to distinguish Kobe from Harden last year. They put up virtually identical numbers and each player hardly played defense. They led their respective teams to the exact same record in the same conference as well....with similar help.

The only difference is their name. And nobody would think it was odd to take Duncan over Harden last year. You want to call me stupid for taking Duncan over Harden...go ahead...

[rhythmic]

Oh...I thought Kobe was great last year. Definitely in my top 5 for regular season. It's just that Duncan was in there as well.

And then Duncan actually played in the playoffs and was great overall in the playoffs as well. Certainly better than not playing a single game.


There is nothing to distinguish Kobe from Harden last year. They put up virtually identical numbers and each player hardly played defense. They led their respective teams to the exact same record in the same conference as well.

The only difference is their name. And nobody would think it was odd to take Duncan over Harden last year.
:roll: Now this moron is saying Harden was as good or better than Kobe, and Duncan is actually top 5.

Okay boys, I'm going to bed. :banghead: This dumbass, wow.

[Milbuck]

There is nothing to distinguish Kobe from Harden last year.
I'm sorry what?

[MadSolar]

And Kobe literally did not show up in the playoffs. How is being hurt and missing the playoffs better than actually playing and putting up 26/7/5 55% TS
Kobe Bryant was better than James hardan in the regular season. In the playoff its even because Jamea hardan played like ass. Hardon couldn't do shit against OKC and were about to get swept. So yea Kobe Injured is better than a healthy hardan last year

[DMAVS41]

I'm sorry what?

Please tell me what...

Harden put up 26/5/6 60% TS
Kobe put up 27/6/6 57% TS

They had the exact same PER (23)

They led their respective teams with similar help to the exact same record in the exact same conference (45-37)

They both played 78 games

They both play the sg position

They both played virtually no defense


How many more ****ing similarities do you want?

I mean...it's really hard to find two player at the same position that produce so similarly.

You guys really expect to sell rational people on Kobe being better last year? And now 26/7/5 55% TS is "not showing up" in the playoffs. I mean...I agree that Harden wasn't great, but how is that a ****ing knock on him while the other guy is at home?

[215Philly]

Please tell me what...

Harden put up 26/5/6 60% TS
Kobe put up 27/6/6 57% TS

They had the exact same PER (23)

They led their respective teams with similar help to the exact same record in the exact same conference (45-37)

They both played 78 games

They both play the sg position

They both played virtually no defense


How many more ****ing similarities do you want?
:lebronamazed:

[IMObjective]

I'm shit for brains?

Duncan put up 18/10/3 and then was the best player on a team that nearly won the title

Gasol averaged 14/8/4 in the regular season

Although Gasol was really good in the playoffs, but overall he just wasn't as good as Duncan or Kobe.

Dude...take a breath and look at the facts

Duncan 18/10/3 24.4 PER...anchors the 3rd best defense in the league and almost wins a title as the best player on his team in the playoffs

Kobe 27/6/6 23 PER...and literally doesn't even fake effort on defense. Is part of a huge letdown of a season.

Sorry, it's not fabrication to take Duncan last year...it's reality

WTF, it's fine if you think Duncan was the better player last year, but acting like Kobe doesn't even come close to having an argument is straight retarded.

:lol dmavs always acting like he's some type of objective analyst but treats his opinions like facts and won't let anyone have any opinion different from his own.

[DMAVS41]

WTF, it's fine if you think Duncan was the better player last year, but acting like Kobe doesn't even come close to having an argument is straight retarded.

:lol dmavs always acting like he's some type of objective analyst but treats his opinions like facts and won't let anyone have any opinion different from his own.

I think it's very close. I already posted that Kobe was in my top 5 in the regular season.

:facepalm

[IMObjective]

I think it's very close. I already posted that Kobe was in my top 5 in the regular season.

:facepalm
Then why are you making such a big deal out of people picking Kobe, like they're retarded or something. And you said it's reality to take Duncan, like people picking Kobe live in some make believe world.

[catquickspider]

Lebron will start becoming irrelevant as soon as Allen and Battier retire.

[ArbitraryWater]

It is overrated. He was elite from 2001-2010, and relevant from 2000-2013... oh, exclude 2003-2005 for 2 SHITTY ASS YEARS.

[Stringer Bell]

Being an elite player, whether it be top 3, top 5, top 10, whatever, for 13 seasons is very impressive.

It's not overrated, but people often underrate other player's longevity, such Shaq, Hakeem, Duncan, when they compare them with Kobe.

The difference in longevity as an elite player is negligible.

[Bush4Ever]

Kobe was an elite level superstar for approximately 12 seasons in a row.

You won't find that many guards who have been that consistent for that long, at an elite level.

This is most reflected in scoring. There is a reason why he has more than 30K points with reasonably good percentages. It isn't a coincidence.


Being an elite player, whether it be top 3, top 5, top 10, whatever, for 13 seasons is very impressive.

It's not overrated, but people often underrate other player's longevity, such Shaq, Hakeem, Duncan, when they compare them with Kobe.

The difference in longevity as an elite player is negligible.

Guards have a shorter shelf life than Bigs, as a general rule. That is a main reason why it is more impressive than most. Also, those guys you mentioned were elite players from day one, whereas Kobe had 3-4 seasons on the books (and his body/legs) when his clock started.

[DMAVS41]

Then why are you making such a big deal out of people picking Kobe, like they're retarded or something. And you said it's reality to take Duncan, like people picking Kobe live in some make believe world.

You have it the opposite my friend.

It's the Kobe fans making a big deal out of me taking Duncan.

[Stringer Bell]

Is picking Duncan over Kobe supposed to be some kind of absurd notion?

The #1 PF ever vs. the #2 SG ever

A guy with 4 titles and 3 Finals MVPs versus one with 5 titles and 2 finals MVPs.

10 All NBA First-Teams vs. 11 All NBA First Teams

8 All NBA Defensive First Teams vs. 7 All NBA Defensive First Teams

2 regular season MVPs and 5 times in the top 3 voting vs. 1 regular season MVP and 5 times in the top 3 voting

Two of the greatest players ever. Is there some large difference between the two?

[tmacattack33]

His season he had last year before the injury was pretty impressive. He was probably probably top 4 or so, at about Chris Paul's level.

In 2011 and 2012 though he had pretty weak years and wasn't really top 5 anymore.

But still, the 2013 season means that he was top 5 in different seasons that were 12 years apart (2001, and 2013). That is pretty good.

[DMAVS41]

His season he had last year before the injury was pretty impressive. He was probably probably top 4 or so, at about Chris Paul's level.

In 2011 and 2012 though he had pretty weak years and wasn't really top 5 anymore.

But still, the 2013 season means that he was top 5 in different seasons that were 12 years apart (2001, and 2013). That is pretty good.

I agree. But also look at it for Duncan.

Duncan was top 5 in 98...and definitely in that conversation for top 5 in 13...15 years apart. That is pretty good.

I'll say it again...18/10/3 while anchoring an elite defense. First team all nba, 2nd team all defense, 5th in DPOY voting (should have been higher)...and best player on a team that came within 1 made ft of winning the title.