Pierce vs Carter

[moe94]

Who peaked higher?

[Smook A.]

That's tough but probably Pierce. His seasons were consistent.

[JohnFreeman]

Pierce

[Black and White]

That's tough but probably Pierce. His seasons were consistent.

He's talking about peaks though, and although Pierce has the better consistency in terms of production, I would say Carter peaked a little higher

[lpublic_enemyl]

Carter

[KendrickPerkins]

That's tough but probably Pierce. His seasons were consistent.
Carter had 10 straight 20+ ppg seasons. :confusedshrug:

[MMM]

When was VC's peak i think it was his 3rd season or the 2nd half in Jersey in 04.

Pierce Peak in 06 i think
Wish Pierce didn't go through those Obie years, they killed his efficiency

I would say Pierce had the higher peak slightly

[moe94]

Vince - 27.6/5.5/4 on 46%, 55 TS%

Pierce - 27/6.7/5 on 47%, 58 TS%

[CelticBaller]

Carter had a better peak, Pierce had a better prime and over all career

[FKAri]

VC's peak was probably 2001.

[East_Stone_Ya]

Carter had a better peak, Pierce had a better prime and over all career

yeah this

[bizil]

I would say overall Pierce. Mainly due to the better all around game. Both were alpha dogs and Vince's all around game was underrated. But I agree with many on here, peak for peak, I give Vince the slight edge. GOAT wise and total prime years goes to Pierce. But these two are very close and can't argue either way. I do think peak Vince put a bit more fear in a defense scoring wise even though peak Pierce was very close. I think it's due to Vince's sick finishing ability where he can go over the top better than anybody else. It's the same reason I give Nique the slight edge on guys like English and Dantley. Their scoring numbers are similar, but Nique had the once in a generation ability at his position to finish over the top on a defense. Baylor had it first at SF then u had Hawkins, Doc, Nique, and now Lebron. For SG's, Vince's historical importance is right there with Thompson, MJ, and Drexler in terms of the freak athlete over the top finishing ability.

[Real Men Wear Green]

There isn't going to be a significant difference if you're just talking about these guys at their best.

[Boston C's]

honestly their peaks are about the same but pierce gets him for consistency and his prime being longer...another poster mentioned it but I also hated seeing pierce go through the rough couple of yrs where he didn't look close to his former self before turning it back up in 06

[STATUTORY]

carter had potential to be better but his actual peak is about the same

longevity and career goes to Pierce and its not even close

[Mass Debator]

I'm not so sure if Pierce had the "better" career. I rather have Carter's.

[hateraid]

Who peaked higher?

I thinl some are missing the point of this. Prime is different from longevity which is different from peak. At the very top of their game I go with Vince. This stretches far beyond stats. At their peaks Peirce was more efficient but Vince seemed more dominant. Peak Vince rivaled peak Iverson.

[Boston C's]

I'm not so sure if Pierce had the "better" career. I rather have Carter's.

:biggums:

[Real Men Wear Green]

:biggums:
Maybe he thinks a dunking crown and ROY are more valuable than a ring and finals MVP?

[kc16]

Career wise I'll take Paul Pierce, he also has the chip to back him up too. Until this year with the Nets he has been a focal number one option on his team plus no serious injury throughout his career.

With that said I believe at there peaks Vince Carter was a more exceptional player. The dude was at a time compared to Jordan. Injuries did slow him down a bit midway in his career.

[Real Men Wear Green]

The dude was at a time compared to Jordan.
Because he was an explosive dunking wing from UNC. But his stats were never anywhere near the level of Bulls MJ.

[Boston C's]

Maybe he thinks a dunking crown and ROY are more valuable than a ring and finals MVP?

I guess so lol

[kc16]

Because he was an explosive dunking wing from UNC. But his stats were never anywhere near the level of Bulls MJ.


Yea that's what I meant, should have phrased that better.

[Mass Debator]

Maybe he thinks a dunking crown and ROY are more valuable than a ring and finals MVP?
It's just that both aren't really all time greats...like top 5 of their position. Vince Carter will go down as one of the most memorable players and Pierce will only remember by winning a championship with KG and Ray Ray. They both made about the same money, but Vince had many more sponsors and endorsements.

Sure Vince never won a ring, but I don't think only 1 more ring would've improved his legacy all that much...Pierce's 1 didn't lift his career that high. There are arguments that KG should've won the FMVP also. It would be a special feeling to be on a team that won it all, but at the end of the day (20 years from now), I rather be more memorable with a great impact on the league than a consistent scorer that won a ring.

If you're talking about ranking players, of course Pierce is higher but I'm talking about who's career I rather have basically.

[CelticBaller]

I'm not so sure if Pierce had the "better" career. I rather have Carter's.
Congrats on outing yourself as an idiot :applause:

[Real Men Wear Green]

It's just that both aren't really all time greats...like top 5 of their position. Vince Carter will go down as one of the most memorable players and Pierce will only remember by winning a championship with KG and Ray Ray. They both made about the same money, but Vince had many more sponsors and endorsements.

Sure Vince never won a ring, but I don't think only 1 more ring would've improved his legacy all that much...Pierce's 1 didn't lift his career that high. There are arguments that KG should've won the FMVP also. It would be a special feeling to be on a team that won it all, but at the end of the day (20 years from now), I rather be more memorable with a great impact on the league than a consistent scorer that won a ring.

If you're talking about ranking players, of course Pierce is higher but I'm talking about who's career I rather have basically.
That's fine for you but I bet most players would much rather have a ring than be known for dunking. If you want evidence I point at what a hard time the NBA has had getting stars to do the contest. LeBron James could have had a dunk crown for the taking and never touched it. Carter himself only did it once. They aren't even announcing a champion this year, just some stupid East vs. West format. So what if KG has an argument for Finals MVP? The important thing is that Pierce won it along with a Championship. A championship is the supreme goal of every team and thus should be the goal of every player every season. The dunk title is won by guys like Nate Robinson. The value of the awards is not even close. I'm not sure an HoF voter would even think about a guy's dunk trophy. If they do they don't weight it much. Guarantee the ring matters though.

[oarabbus]

I'm not so sure if Pierce had the "better" career. I rather have Carter's.

:biggums:





















































:biggums:

[It's A VC3!!!]

carter had potential to be better but his actual peak is about the same

longevity and career goes to Pierce and its not even close
Carter hasn't fallen off a cliff. He's putting up the same stats as Pierce this season despite coming off the bench.

But I do agree that Pierce's longevity> Carter's longevity.

[Black and White]

I'm not so sure if Pierce had the "better" career. I rather have Carter's.

Da fuq? :biggums:

[STATUTORY]

Carter hasn't fallen off a cliff. He's putting up the same stats as Pierce this season despite coming off the bench.

But I do agree that Pierce's longevity> Carter's longevity.
what really taints Carter's career is the perception he could have been a lot better

whereas Pierce is seen to have overachieved, Carter's career is underwhelming and anticlimatic given the early hype.

this affects the postscript of their career

[Mass Debator]

That's fine for you but I bet most players would much rather have a ring than be known for dunking. If you want evidence I point at what a hard time the NBA has had getting stars to do the contest. LeBron James could have had a dunk crown for the taking and never touched it. Carter himself only did it once. They aren't even announcing a champion this year, just some stupid East vs. West format. So what if KG has an argument for Finals MVP? The important thing is that Pierce won it along with a Championship. A championship is the supreme goal of every team and thus should be the goal of every player every season. The dunk title is won by guys like Nate Robinson. The value of the awards is not even close. I'm not sure an HoF voter would even think about a guy's dunk trophy. If they do they don't weight it much. Guarantee the ring matters though.
Well the thing is, I don't think you are complete. This isn't just a slam dunk champion, he was THE slam dunk champion...in game, in a contest, playground, or wherever. This isn't just a Nate Robinson, this is Vince Carter putting up 28/6/4 his third year in the league. A guy with the range of Kobe and the fluidity of Jordan. The 1999 rookie of the year. Someone who made the finals. Virtually identical stats with Paul Pierce minus a ring and FMVP. It's like choosing between FMVP Tony Parker/Chauncey Billups against someone like CP3, Rose, or Westbrook (not really since CP3 and them are superior but something to point out). Vince Carter was a big name...a big deal. A brand that won't be forgotten. How will Paul Pierce be remembered in history?

I'm not comparing a dunk contest trophy to a FMVP trophy. I'm pointing out the impact Vince has left on this league similar to what Dominique left in his generation. Paul Pierce did the Celtics organization and its fans proud. Vince Carter has been kind of a disappointment as he had GOAT-like skills and athleticism. I just think that in 2030, his career will resonate louder than Pierce's. I respect Pierce's game and many kids could benefit from molding their games around his. Top 10 SF of all time where Vince may not even sniff top 10. It's just that in my opinion, I rather be Vince even though he never won a ring like many other greats.

[Black and White]

Well the thing is, I don't think you are complete. This isn't just a slam dunk champion, he was THE slam dunk champion...in game, in a contest, playground, or wherever. This isn't just a Nate Robinson, this is Vince Carter putting up 28/6/4 his third year in the league. A guy with the range of Kobe and the fluidity of Jordan. The 1999 rookie of the year. Someone who made the finals. Virtually identical stats with Paul Pierce minus a ring and FMVP. It's like choosing between FMVP Tony Parker/Chauncey Billups against someone like CP3, Rose, or Westbrook (not really since CP3 and them are superior but something to point out). Vince Carter was a big name...a big deal. A brand that won't be forgotten. How will Paul Pierce be remembered in history?

I'm not comparing a dunk contest trophy to a FMVP trophy. I'm pointing out the impact Vince has left on this league similar to what Dominique left in his generation. Paul Pierce did the Celtics organization and its fans proud. Vince Carter has been kind of a disappointment as he had GOAT-like skills and athleticism. I just think that in 2030, his career will resonate louder than Pierce's. I respect Pierce's game and many kids could benefit from molding their games around his. Top 10 SF of all time where Vince may not even sniff top 10. It's just that in my opinion, I rather be Vince even though he never won a ring like many other greats.


So dunking > winning?, I can understand your analogy in terms of Carter being more popular or something, but Pierce has a FMVP and a much more consistent career and a longer prime,

Pierces career > Carters, there is no debate there.

[Mass Debator]

Congrats on outing yourself as an idiot :applause:
You have your own opinion. Thanks for contributing to the thread with valid points.

[Mass Debator]

So dunking > winning?, I can understand your analogy in terms of Carter being more popular or something, but Pierce has a FMVP and a much more consistent career and a longer prime,

Pierces career > Carters, there is no debate there.
Maybe the word career is confusing people. I'm not comparing who has the better basketball resume. Pierce obviously has a better resume and will be ranked higher all time. I just rather have Vince's career mainly due to fame in his prime time and in many years to come. It's not like Pierce is on the tier of Bird, Lebron, Havlicek, Pippen, or Dr. J on achievements and accolades. He wasn't much better if any better than VC. He just happened to be a great player on a team with KG, Ray, and Rondo as great players and won a ring. That's great! But I'm still sticking with VC as who I'd rather be. I just have a hard time seeing that Pierce will be well-remembered in NBA history (unless he goes on to become an analyst or something).

[Black and White]

Maybe the word career is confusing people. I'm not comparing who has the better basketball resume. Pierce obviously has a better resume and will be ranked higher all time. I just rather have Vince's career mainly due to fame in his prime time and in many years to come. It's not like Pierce is on the tier of Bird, Lebron, Havlicek, Pippen, or Dr. J on achievements and accolades. He wasn't much better if any better than VC. He just happened to be a great player on a team with KG, Ray, and Rondo as great players and won a ring. That's great! But I'm still sticking with VC as who I'd rather be. I just have a hard time seeing that Pierce will be well-remembered in NBA history (unless he goes on to become an analyst or something).

I think Pierce will be remembered for a long time, he stuck with a franchise when it went through its darkest days and came out on top, its a great story, I can see what you are saying about popularity, and peak Carter was slightly better, but it just wasn't long enough, Carter won't be remebered the way Pierce will be, he will be remembered as a flashy dunker, I would much rather be remembered as a winner than something like that.

[Mass Debator]

I think Pierce will be remembered for a long time, he stuck with a franchise when it went through its darkest days and came out on top, its a great story, I can see what you are saying about popularity, and peak Carter was slightly better, but it just wasn't long enough, Carter won't be remebered the way Pierce will be, he will be remembered as a flashy dunker, I would much rather be remembered as a winner than something like that.
What if I gave you the choice to have Iverson's or Pierce's career? or even T-Mac.

[CelticBaller]

You have your own opinion. Thanks for contributing to the thread with valid points.
Like your were right? Slam Dunk champion> FMVP right?

[Black and White]

What if I gave you the choice to have Iverson's or Pierce's career?

Pierce because I want to be a Celtic and he is one of the greatest, but being unbiased, I dunno, depends on how high you rank winning, Iverson never got it done but will be remembered as one of the most popular players in history, so its a tough one, I still choose Pierces career though, winning > everything

[Real Men Wear Green]

Well the thing is, I don't think you are complete.I assure you, I have no missing pieces.
This isn't just a slam dunk champion, he was THE slam dunk champion...in game, in a contest, playground, or wherever. This isn't just a Nate Robinson, this is Vince Carter putting up 28/6/4 his third year in the league. A guy with the range of Kobe and the fluidity of Jordan. The 1999 rookie of the year. Someone who made the finals.No, Pierce made the Finals. Twice. One of those two times being at Carter's expense.
Virtually identical stats with Paul Pierce minus a ring and FMVP. It's like choosing between FMVP Tony Parker/Chauncey Billups against someone like CP3, Rose, or Westbrook (not really since CP3 and them are superior but something to point out). Vince Carter was a big name...a big deal. A brand that won't be forgotten. How will Paul Pierce be remembered in history?As an all-time great Celtic and a Champion. a 10-time All-Star (as opposed to VC's 8) and 4 times All-NBA (as opposed to Carter's 2). He's never going to enter the GOAT discussions but neither will Carter. The idea that Pierce will be forgotten just because he didn't dunk between his legs is laughable.


I'm not comparing a dunk contest trophy to a FMVP trophy. I'm pointing out the impact Vince has left on this league similar to what Dominique left in his generation. Paul Pierce did the Celtics organization and its fans proud. Vince Carter has been kind of a disappointment as he had GOAT-like skills and athleticism. I just think that in 2030, his career will resonate louder than Pierce's. I respect Pierce's game and many kids could benefit from molding their games around his. Top 10 SF of all time where Vince may not even sniff top 10. It's just that in my opinion, I rather be Vince even though he never won a ring like many other greats.Carter's career wasn't as good as Nique's. Wilkins averaged 29 at age 34.

[moe94]

I think Pierce will be remembered for a long time, he stuck with a franchise when it went through its darkest days and came out on top, its a great story, I can see what you are saying about popularity, and peak Carter was slightly better, but it just wasn't long enough, Carter won't be remebered the way Pierce will be, he will be remembered as a flashy dunker, I would much rather be remembered as a winner than something like that.

Carter will be more remembered than Pierce and has a niche filled as the absolute best, something Pierce does not. I'd take Carter's career over Pierce's if I had to live one out. Not saying it's better from an accomplishment standpoint, because it clearly isn't, but it seems like he will definitely have more staying power.

[Boston C's]

Carter will be more remembered than Pierce and has a niche filled as the absolute best, something Pierce does not. I'd take Carter's career over Pierce's if I had to live one out. Not saying it's better from an accomplishment standpoint, because it clearly isn't, but it seems like he will definitely have more staying power.

So whose career would you rather have...ray allen or vince carters?

[Black and White]

Carter will be more remembered than Pierce and has a niche filled as the absolute best, something Pierce does not. I'd take Carter's career over Pierce's if I had to live one out. Not saying it's better from an accomplishment standpoint, because it clearly isn't, but it seems like he will definitely have more staying power.

Its subjective though, people have different views on things so it can be debated for ages, for me winning > everything, Carter is more popular yes, but lets not act like Pierce will be forgotten, his jersey will be retired before Carters does, and he will make the Hall of Fame before Carter too, if you want to live Carters career instead thats fine with me and I can see where you are coming from.

[Mass Debator]

Like your were right? Slam Dunk champion> FMVP right?
:oldlol: That's exactly what I said. :applause:

[Real Men Wear Green]

Its subjective though, people have different views on things so it can be debated for ages, for me winning > everything, Carter is more popular yes, but lets not act like Pierce will be forgotten, his jersey will be retired before Carters does, and he will make the Hall of Fame before Carter too, if you want to live Carters career instead thats fine with me and I can see where you are coming from.
I doubt it's even that subjective. The NBA player does not exist that chooses a dunk title over a ring.

[Mass Debator]

So whose career would you rather have...ray allen or vince carters?
I believe Allen will continue his career in the NBA after his playing days. I lean slightly to Ray's side because of that.

[moe94]

I doubt it's even that subjective. The NBA player does not exist that chooses a dunk title over a ring.

Rings are overrated. I'd rather be remember as the greatest dunker of all time than some dude who won a single championship. Let's not act like we're talking about Kobe over here.

[Boston C's]

I believe Allen will continue his career in the NBA after his playing days. I lean slightly to Ray's side because of that.

Ok I think I actually misunderstood where you were coming from but rereading your last post it makes sense now my bad...my reading comprehension failed big time in my thinking you would rather have carters career because it was better and not because it was more fun to live out so again my fault

[moe94]

Ok I think I actually misunderstood where you were coming from but rereading your last post it makes sense now my bad...my reading comprehension failed big time in my thinking you would rather have carters career because it was better and not because it was more fun to live out so again my fault

That's what I'm saying. :cheers:

[Mass Debator]

I doubt it's even that subjective. The NBA player does not exist that chooses a dunk title over a ring.
No one is saying that. Carter isn't a scrub who is known for dunking. Whether he won a dunk contest or not, that does not take away from his production on the court who people can argue peaked higher than Pierce.

Do you choose to be Ray Allen or Paul Pierce? Allen has 2 rings.

[Boston C's]

That's what I'm saying. :cheers:

haha gotcha :cheers:

[Boston C's]

No one is saying that. Carter isn't a scrub who is known for dunking. Whether he won a dunk contest or not, that does not take away from his production on the court who people can argue peaked higher than Pierce.

Do you choose to be Ray Allen or Paul Pierce? Allen has 2 rings.

thats a bad comparison man lol those two careers are ridiculously similar if you wanted to make a point you should have said pierce vs horry or somethin lol...even though I still respectfully disagree with your opinion

[Black and White]

Rings are overrated. I'd rather be remember as the greatest dunker of all time than some dude who won a single championship. Let's not act like we're talking about Kobe over here.

Players play to win though, I can see your point but look at Dirks career, he is one dude who won a single title, but he is remembered as one of the best PFs of all time.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Rings are overrated. I'd rather be remember as the greatest dunker of all time than some dude who won a single championship. Let's not act like we're talking about Kobe over here.
No, they are not. They are the ultimate goal of the entire league (along with making money). How you feel personally is your business but to the basketball world in general the goal is the NBA Championship. The league doesn't even have an individual winner to the Dunk Comp this year. Which indicates how much that "championship" truly matters.

[moe94]

No, they are not. They are the ultimate goal of the entire league (along with making money). How you feel personally is your business but to the basketball world in general the goal is the NBA Championship. The league doesn't even have an individual winner to the Dunk Comp this year. Which indicates how much that "championship" truly matters.

You keep harping about the dunk contest when he goes far far far beyond that, dude.

Agree to disagree.

Pierce won one championship and he was not the focal point, KG was. It is what it is.

Black and White, Pierce is no Dirk.

[Mass Debator]

Players play to win though, I can see your point but look at Dirks career, he is one dude who won a single title, but he is remembered as one of the best PFs of all time.
Of course rings are important. But over time, a single ring can be forgotten unless it was an epic performance. Dirk however is in a different boat since he's considered one of the greatest shooters ever. Greatest shooting 7 footer ever. And he won an MVP. That is something to be remembered by.

[Black and White]

You keep harping about the dunk contest when he goes far far far beyond that, dude.

Agree to disagree.

Pierce won one championship and he was not the focal point, KG was. It is what it is.

Black and White, Pierce is no Dirk.

Their careers are similar in they both stayed with the franchise that drafted them and won the title once they got help, Pierce did not have Dirks production but their stories are still the same.

[moe94]

Their careers are similar in they both stayed with the franchise that drafted them and won the title once they got help, Pierce did not have Dirks production but their stories are still the same.

Dirk has first team all-NBA selections
Dirk won MVP
Dirk was the best player on a championship team
Dirk led countless teams to 50+ seasons in a harder conference

They are not the same at all.

[Real Men Wear Green]

No one is saying that. Carter isn't a scrub who is known for dunking. Whether he won a dunk contest or not, that does not take away from his production on the court who people can argue peaked higher than Pierce.You can argue whatever you want. The goal is winning the NBA Championship, a goal that Pierce has reached and Carter has not. We see players cry tears of passion when they hold up the Larry O'Brien trophy. What does the Dunk Champ do, pretend like he's going to drive home in the free KIA? Oh wait, he won't even do that because they got rid of the Dunk Championship. Now they just have the fans vote online for the dunker of the night. Maybe he'll tweet. #lame.


Do you choose to be Ray Allen or Paul Pierce? Allen has 2 rings.
I'm a Celtics fan so I'd rather be the Celtic legend. But in a vacuum of course you want two rings instead of one. Ray Allen added to his legacy with one of the all-time great clutch shots. I bet Carter would rather have hit that jumper in Game 6 than his 360 windmill.

[Black and White]

Dirk has first team all-NBA selections
Dirk won MVP
Dirk was the best player on a championship team
Dirk led countless teams to 50+ seasons in a harder conference

They are not the same at all.

Did you read my post? I said their stories are the same, Garnett played well, and yea Dirk was the clear cut best player in his run, but Pierce got the FMVP, it is what it is, nothing we can do about it.

[Mass Debator]

You can argue whatever you want. The goal is winning the NBA Championship, a goal that Pierce has reached and Carter has not. We see players cry tears of passion when they hold up the Larry O'Brien trophy. What does the Dunk Champ do, pretend like he's going to drive home in the free KIA? Oh wait, he won't even do that because they got rid of the Dunk Championship. Now they just have the fans vote online for the dunker of the night. Maybe he'll tweet. #lame.


I'm a Celtics fan so I'd rather be the Celtic legend. But in a vacuum of course you want two rings instead of one. Ray Allen added to his legacy with one of the all-time great clutch shots. I bet Carter would rather have hit that jumper in Game 6 than his 360 windmill.
Robert Horry or Paul Pierce?

[moe94]

Did you read my post? I said their stories are the same, Garnett played well, and yea Dirk was the clear cut best player in his run, but Pierce got the FMVP, it is what it is, nothing we can do about it.

I read your post and from what I got out it, you were saying Dirk and Pierce's careers were similar or were you talking strictly the championship because you'd be wrong in both accounts, regardless of a damn Finals MVP. That team was built on KG and he was the best player in the playoffs.

If you really were talking about careers, hell no. Pierce is not touching Dirk, by any stretch of the imagination.

Y'all overrating Piece over one ring.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Robert Horry or Paul Pierce?
Nate Robinson or VC :rolleyes:

[Black and White]

I read your post and from what I got out it, you were saying Dirk and Pierce's careers were similar or were you talking strictly the championship because you'd be wrong in both accounts, regardless of a damn Finals MVP. That team was built on KG and he was the best player in the playoffs.

If you really were talking about careers, hell no. Pierce is not touching Dirk, by any stretch of the imagination.

Y'all overrating Piece over one ring.

I am not trying to compare their careers, just the story of how they won it thats all,

I was just talking about the ring aspect of it, but hey, we can debate this back and forth for ages if you want to, Carter = popularity, Pierce = winning, it just depends on whats important to you.

[Mass Debator]

Nate Robinson or VC :rolleyes:
VC. What about you?

[moe94]

VC. What about you?

I guess championships only have clout when you're a top 3 player on the team so everything is thrust on you. :confusedshrug:

[BigMacAttack]

Rings are overrated. I'd rather be remember as the greatest dunker of all time than some dude who won a single championship. Let's not act like we're talking about Kobe over here.


No they aren't.



Carter peaked higher then Pierce.

[moe94]

No they aren't.
.

Yes, they are. They're used to prop up players and shit on others. They're used to evaluate and compare individual talent when they are a team accomplishment. I've been in enough arguments to understand that people put way too much stock into them. Karl Malone and Charles Barkley are two of the greatest players of all time, rings or otherwise. Dirk having won a single championship doesn't suddenly make him a much greater player, in my eyes.

[Mass Debator]

I guess championships only have clout when you're a top 3 player on the team so everything is thrust on you. :confusedshrug:
I think it's mainly top 2. If the Heat win again this year and threw Bosh vs Pierce his way, he'd be so confused on who had the better career.

[Black and White]

Yes, they are. They're used to prop up players and shit on others. They're used to evaluate and compare individual talent when they are a team accomplishment. I've been in enough arguments to understand that people put way too much stock into them. Karl Malone and Charles Barkley are two of the greatest players of all time, rings or otherwise. Dirk having won a single championship doesn't suddenly make him a much greater player, in my eyes.

Actually before the ring he was being labelled a choker and stuff, he needed that ring to validate himself

[CelticBaller]

Yes, they are. They're used to prop up players and shit on others. They're used to evaluate and compare individual talent when they are a team accomplishment. I've been in enough arguments to understand that people put way too much stock into them. Karl Malone and Charles Barkley are two of the greatest players of all time, rings or otherwise. Dirk having won a single championship doesn't suddenly make him a much greater player, in my eyes.
Well all those players had a better career than dirk minus the rings. Vince has none over Pierce

[Real Men Wear Green]

I think it's mainly top 2. If the Heat win again this year and threw Bosh vs Pierce his way, he'd be so confused on who had the better career.
No. I just didn't see any relevance to your question. Really, as far as I'm concerned, the idea that dunk titles are more important to a career than real titles has been annihilated. It was silly to even bring up.

[CelticBaller]

Actually before the ring he was being labelled a choker and stuff, he needed that ring to validate himself
Yup

Dirk needed that to be considered a top PF of all time

[Mass Debator]

No. I just didn't see any relevance to your question. Really, as far as I'm concerned, the idea that dunk titles are more important to a career than real titles has been annihilated. It was silly to even bring up.
You still are putting words into my mouth. No one ever said that dunk titles > real titles

[CelticBaller]

Pierce has more 3pt contest titles than VC :rockon:

[Real Men Wear Green]

You still are putting words into my mouth. No one ever said that dunk titles > real titles
No, what you said was that you'd rather be known as a great dunker than win a championship. Well, good for you. And like I've said, I'm fairly certain that almost every player would take a ring over trick dunking.

[Black and White]

No, what you said was that you'd rather be known as a great dunker than win a championship. Well, good for you. And like I've said, I'm fairly certain that almost every player would take a ring over trick dunking.

LeBron James is a prime example of this

[BigMacAttack]

Yes, they are. They're used to prop up players and shit on others. They're used to evaluate and compare individual talent when they are a team accomplishment. I've been in enough arguments to understand that people put way too much stock into them. Karl Malone and Charles Barkley are two of the greatest players of all time, rings or otherwise. Dirk having won a single championship doesn't suddenly make him a much greater player, in my eyes.

Charles and Malone are all time greats and not having a ring doesnt negate any of their basketball ability, I agree with that and so does most of the basketball world, its hardly a rare opinion.

Winning a championship is the ultimate goal in the nba, the fact that all time greats like Malone and Barkley never achieved a champioship shows how hard they are to get, it doesnt prove rings are overrated and just because a guy isnt an all time great doesn't mean a ring is worth less to him :facepalm.



Name me the number 1 greatest players at their positions ever and they will all have rings, You play to win, so if you cant win you cant be considered the best.

[Mass Debator]

No, what you said was that you'd rather be known as a great dunker than win a championship. Well, good for you. And like I've said, I'm fairly certain that almost every player would take a ring over trick dunking.
Not exactly. I rather be known in history than be forgotten as years go by. Whether you think Pierce will be forgotten is your own opinion. He'd definitely not be forgotten by Celtics fans and that's for sure. Benard King, Nate "Tiny", Artis Gilmore, Alex English and such weren't no scrubs, but have faded.

And your last statement, I'm not going to argue with because it's pretty much a fact. I fairly certain the everyone would love to be able to dunk and drive like VC as well.

Plus, if VC had KG and Ray Allen, he'd probably win a ring as well. (emphasis on probably)

[Black and White]

Not exactly. I rather be known in history than be forgotten as years go by. Whether you think Pierce will be forgotten is your own opinion. He'd definitely not be forgotten by Celtics fans and that's for sure. Benard King, Nate "Tiny", Artis Gilmore, Alex English and such weren't no scrubs, but have faded.

And your last statement, I'm not going to argue with because it's pretty much a fact. I fairly certain the everyone would love to be able to dunk and drive like VC as well.

Plus, if VC had KG and Ray Allen, he'd probably win a ring as well. (emphasis on probably)

So you are talking about popularity right?

I don't see Pierce getting forgotten.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Not exactly. I rather be known in history than be forgotten as years go by. Whether you think Pierce will be forgotten is your own opinion. He'd definitely not be forgotten by Celtics fans and that's for sure. Benard King, Nate "Tiny", Artis Gilmore, Alex English and such weren't no scrubs, but have faded.Pierce played in 2 Celtics/Lakers NBA Finals. The whole sporting world watches the NBA finals and plenty of casual fans as well. He's not going into obscurity.
Plus, if VC had KG and Ray Allen, he'd probably win a ring as well. (emphasis on probably)He might have. Pierce did, and the real always trumps the possible. Plus it's not like Carter never had a chance. He was on a Magic team with Dwight Howard that was supposed to be a Contender and was derailed by the Celtics in a series that was lost with Carter getting outplayed by Pierce on both ends being one of the main reasons why Orlando lost.

[moe94]

Name me the number 1 greatest players at their positions ever and they will all have rings, You play to win, so if you cant win you cant be considered the best.

Because they are a barometer for judging career greatness. Who denies that? Point is, when people start flexing rings when deciding individual ability, I stop following.

[CelticBaller]

Not exactly. I rather be known in history than be forgotten as years go by. Whether you think Pierce will be forgotten is your own opinion. He'd definitely not be forgotten by Celtics fans and that's for sure. Benard King, Nate "Tiny", Artis Gilmore, Alex English and such weren't no scrubs, but have faded.

And your last statement, I'm not going to argue with because it's pretty much a fact. I fairly certain the everyone would love to be able to dunk and drive like VC as well.

Plus, if VC had KG and Ray Allen, he'd probably win a ring as well. (emphasis on probably)
He had a Magic team that had gone to the finals the year before and played straight like shit, a hobbled pierce outplayed him ffs

[MMM]

I think Pierce will be remember longer than Carter just for the fact that his career was played for a storied basketball franchise. That alone boosts his legacy, he is among career leading stats for many Celtics all time stats, he will get his number retired and be among many all time greats. Just from that perspective alone Pierce should be remembered longer

[It's A VC3!!!]

I know this is solely about peaks but a lot of people underrate Pierce's career. It might be because he didn't do ANYTHING before KG and Ray got there but when he finally did have a team around him he did not disappoint. Too many people disrespectful of his career. Pierce had a championship team for 3 to 4 years and won once. Vince only had a championship team once in his career at age 32 and failed miserably. Although Rashit Lewis was the biggest failure in that series.

[BigMacAttack]

Because they are a barometer for judging career greatness. Who denies that? Point is, when people start flexing rings when deciding individual ability, I stop following.


Do you rate career greatness or individual ability higher?

Cause for me individual ability is all well and good but a great career is what the ultimate goal should be.

As a T-Mac fan that really hurts to say because he is one of the all time individual ability players who has a pretty limited career, but its true, he just never really achieved anything other then scoring titles, even for me that is a valid knock on his career and his ability.

[It's A VC3!!!]

I think Pierce will be remember longer than Carter just for the fact that his career was played for a storied basketball franchise. That alone boosts his legacy, he is among career leading stats for many Celtics all time stats, he will get his number retired and be among many all time greats. Just from that perspective alone Pierce should be remembered longer
Nah. At the end of the day Carter will be talked about 100 years from now, even if only about his dunks. Pierce will be talked about in relevance to the Celtic franchise but certainly nothing beyond that, sadly.

[Black and White]

Nah. At the end of the day Carter will be talked about 100 years from now, even if only about his dunks. Pierce will be talked about in relevance to the Celtic franchise but certainly nothing beyond that, sadly.

You really dont think there will be another guy that can dunk like him???

[BigMacAttack]

Nah. At the end of the day Carter will be talked about 100 years from now, even if only about his dunks. Pierce will be talked about in relevance to the Celtic franchise but certainly nothing beyond that, sadly.

Yeah but in one hundred years Carter will still be known as the great dunker who under achieved. Not taking anything away from his ability to dunk like no other but it is basically just a gimmick he lucked into at birth.

Pierce will be known amongst Celtic fans as a winner, i would much rather that.

[It's A VC3!!!]

You really dont think there will be another guy that can dunk like him???
Never. For the simple fact that no future NBA player will EVER be able to do a windmill like Vince could. Also, Vince had maybe 15 360 dunks and 15 windmill dunks in his entire career. The league sees about 1 to 2 every year, sometimes 0. Vince did any dunk in game and the only two players who can do something similar in game are Paul george and Griffin.

And also worth mentioning that Paul George doesn't poster people, nor does any other player in this league aside from Griffin. When Vince stopped dunking, so did the rest of the league.

[Black and White]

Never. For the simple fact that no future NBA player will EVER be able to do a windmill like Vince could. Also, Vince had maybe 15 360 dunks and 15 windmill dunks in his entire career. The league sees about 1 to 2 every year, sometimes 0. Vince did any dunk in game and the only two players who can do something similar in game are Paul george and Griffin.

You never know with these things, but Pierce will never be forgotten because you will look up into the rafters and see the #34 jersey hanging there, his memory will live on forever. Sorry, but the Truth shall set you free.

[BigMacAttack]

Never. For the simple fact that no future NBA player will EVER be able to do a windmill like Vince could. Also, Vince had maybe 15 360 dunks and 15 windmill dunks in his entire career. The league sees about 1 to 2 every year, sometimes 0. Vince did any dunk in game and the only two players who can do something similar in game are Paul george and Griffin.

And also worth mentioning that Paul George doesn't poster people, nor does any other player in this league aside from Griffin. When Vince stopped dunking, so did the rest of the league.

So much fail.

No one dunks as prolifically as Vince and it will be a long time until we see someone who does, and his windmills may never be matched but you cant say there will never be another dunker like Vince, that is ridiculous.

And no one dunks on people these day huh? Dwade? Durant? Rose? Westbrook? There are plenty who do stop being stupid.

[It's A VC3!!!]

So much fail.

No one dunks as prolifically as Vince and it will be a long time until we see someone who does, and his windmills may never be matched but you cant say there will never be another dunker like Vince, that is ridiculous.

And no one dunks on people these day huh? Dwade? Durant? Rose? Westbrook? There are plenty who do stop being stupid.

Vince has dunked on David Robinson, Dikembe Mutombo, Tim Duncan, Alonzo Mourning and several other centers throughout the course of his career. Name me a player his height or smaller that has posterized that many centers. There are none. Oh, and he jumped over Tim Duncan, not just dunked on him.

Go on Youtube and watch the videos.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Vince has dunked on past his prime David Robinson, past his prime Dikembe Mutombo, Tim Duncan, past his prime Alonzo Mourning and several other past their prime centers throughout the course of his career. Name me a player his height or smaller that has posterized that many centers. There are none. Oh, and he jumped over Tim Duncan, not just dunked on him.

Go on Youtube and watch the videos.

Fixed for clarification.

[Black and White]

Vince has dunked on David Robinson, Dikembe Mutombo, Tim Duncan, Alonzo Mourning and several other centers throughout the course of his career. Name me a player his height or smaller that has posterized that many centers. There are none. Oh, and he jumped over Tim Duncan, not just dunked on him.

Go on Youtube and watch the videos.

Kobe dunked on Dwight and Ben Wallace, whats your point?

[moe94]

And I thought I liked Vince.