Are PGs in the NBA collectively overrated?

[Connor B]

We always hear about how we are in a golden age of star PGs. Certainly talent level is high, but I think we overrate basically every star point guard. This is not to say they aren't all stars, but some of the praise thrown out on here or otherwise is a little ridiculous given the IMPACT (or lack thereof) these players have.

Chris Paul - I've always thought this guy was overrated. Has been said to be a great playoff performer, but his stats haven't actually gone up in the playoffs since his time at New Orleans where his role was bigger. Definitely very talented but if he were truly a superstar and one of the best PGs since Magic, we wouldn't see him collapse 4 games in a row to Memphis. And you see how well his team is doing, currently, without him.

Stephen Curry - the sweetheart of America...again the stats are great and he is shooting about Kobe numbers percent wise on about the same efficiency, is 40%+ from the three and is a great passer. But it is hard to excuse his teams seeding. He is inconsistent.

Russell Westbrook - this one may not be too fair because he is equally criticized and loved for the most part, but at the end of the day with how the Thunder have been playing it makes you kinda maybe sorta wonder if his chucking is really okay...I think he is the best in the league when he is playing well because we have seen his impact and its honestly better than the above two players.

Damian Lillard - actually reminds me a lot of Westbrook in that the impact and tenacity are for sure there and he is an all-star but his efficiency from the field can be pretty ugh...makes up for it from 3.

Kyrie Irving - not an all-star player. Defense is non existent, very streaky, not efficient, can run the floor but can't get his team anywhere near .500

John Wall - not overrated I don't think but I question his impact once he actually gets to the playoffs

[moe94]

Kyrie isn't an all-star player? Are you retarded?

[Pushxx]

Rondo was the third best player of the 2010 and 2012 playoffs. I'd say that's underrated.

[buddha]

can't believe you started an overrated pg's thread without mentioning Goran Dragic.

[navy]

can't believe you started an overrated pg's thread without mentioning Goran Dragic.
He's underrated, except by a certain troll. Not even in the all star game.

[Dbrog]

I'd say it's difficult to say. I mean, a PG hasn't really ever led a team to a chip since Magic (or even Thomas since Magic wasn't exacly a true PG). Maybe billups but Wallace and Wallace were more important for them. However, good PGs have almost always led their teams to the playoffs. Look at Nash, Kidd, Stockton, Payton, and all the "golden age" PGs. I just think a great PG will give your team wonderful consistency but can't elevate your team to championships. It's an interesting phenomenon and I'm not quite sure why we don't see it happen more.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Kyrie isn't an all-star player? Are you retarded?
Lets be real Kyrie doesnt deserve to be in this years allstar game. he only got in b/c of pepsi commercials/uncle drew

[FKAri]

The rule changes allow PG's to shine. So by that logic either PGs today are overrated and the bigs are underrated or neither statement is true.

[avonbarksdale]

pg are able to put up good stats/flashy moves without actually impacting the team as much as another position putting up similar stats

a good point guard is not a necessity for a good team

miami - chalmers
indiana - hill
okc - been beasting w/o westbrook
clippers - were doing very well w/o cp3

then you got

gsw - not doing too well with curry (arguably best pg in the league)
cavs - kyrie who is an 'all star' yet they are horrid
washington - sub .500 team with john wall
brookyln - deron williams

point guards are just not as impactful as the bigger players imo

[avonbarksdale]

atlanta, chicago, houston and dallas are all in the playoffs with average to below average point guards, calderon probably being the best of the group

[FKAri]

atlanta, chicago, houston and dallas are all in the playoffs with average to below average point guards, calderon probably being the best of the group

Teague/Beverley/Lin > Calderon. This aint 2008.

[coin24]

Id say there are a lot of great point guards currently ( those that arent injured ) but as history has showed, this isnt exactly the path to a title..
Not many teams that have won it all relied on a ball dominant pg..

[wagexslave]

can't believe you started an overrated pg's thread without mentioning Goran Dragic.
:wtf: :facepalm

You're an idiot if you think Dragic is OVERrated by just about anyone but GoranDragon...

[I<3NBA]

I'd say it's difficult to say. I mean, a PG hasn't really ever led a team to a chip since Magic (or even Thomas since Magic wasn't exacly a true PG). Maybe billups but Wallace and Wallace were more important for them. However, good PGs have almost always led their teams to the playoffs. Look at Nash, Kidd, Stockton, Payton, and all the "golden age" PGs. I just think a great PG will give your team wonderful consistency but can't elevate your team to championships. It's an interesting phenomenon and I'm not quite sure why we don't see it happen more.
Tony Parker

[davehos]

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-e2-ymd5PKF4/Ubp-k_wYi2I/AAAAAAAABf8/jlnYnGNbzw4/w506-h285-o/parker%2Bcircus%2Bscoop.gif

[K.Koscik]

Point guards in the NBA are arguably the most talented position in the game today (top heavy SF's might be better) but yes, they are all over rated.

Point guards are the least impactful players on the court. Traditionally, the PG is a supplementary position on a basketball team. Today, we have a bunch of flashy, athletic, talented point guards that only prove this more.

Curry, for example, averaged like 30/8 in his last 10 on amazing percentages, nailing 4 three's a game. In that time, his team (who is not missing anyone to injury for once) is only 5-5 in that span. Despite a near perfect PG performance they are an average team in that time. The formula for a winning system begins with team defense and a player who can reliably create offense at any time.

In today's game point guards are asked to create offense more than ever before despite every year, all teams boasting an elite PG as their best player falter in the finals. Every year, the teams with the best D and that 'anytime' scoring ability are your champs. Most commonly, teams with that ability find it in the form of post players (Shaq, Duncan, Malone, Chamberlain, Jabbar, etc).

MJ even tricked us into believing that the SG was meant to be the primary position in a winning formula, but GOAT gonna GOAT and besides Kobe, SG's haven't had any success either. In today's game, C's and PF's have smaller roles but it is still the next biggest guys on the court who prove most impactful (stretch PF's like Dirk in 2011, Alridge, but mainly SF's like James, Durant, George, Melo in 2012, Kobe from 08-12 because of his post game) while a guy like CP3 puts up comparable numbers but never seems to just be able to replicate the 'perfect storm' so many FMVPS have to produce en route to a title.

We want to ask these PG's to be Jordan. That is, we expect a great PG to take a good team (Clips and W's) and win big. Every year, there are defining moments in every game, every series, and every finals which are expected, but don't just 'happen'. Usually, big defensive stops and clutch scoring comprise most of those moments. In this sense, big guys have the most impact on defense to produce these moments, but is largely a team affair. On offense though, a guy like MJ made all the right plays in the biggest moments. Any less then his near automatic delivery in big moments, and the outcome of his Finals become different. His impact on defense is among the greatest of any non-post player ever, and even then his offense needed to be near perfect.

Because they are point guards, they must be able to dominate big moments, even in the playoffs, at a near perfect level. As good as they are, no one is perfect, and thus as long as that responsibility is primarily on them they will continue to fail. In fact, I think that if David Lee could stay healthy and become the center of the warriors offense they would be much better built for the playoffs.

[bizil]

I think that due to the rules changes u have several PG's with great handles and explosiveness that can get to the rack and score. Thus they are so explosive u have to play off them often times too and give them the jumper. But the key to that is frankly the lack of physicality in terms of perimeter defense compared to the past.

But many of these PG's can't dominate a game in an alpha dog fashion AND be great at floor general-passing too. The guys like Magic, Isiah, Big O, Tiny, Nash and now CP3 did it at the highest levels. Many of these PG's today are for all intensive purposes combo guards or flat out small SG's. Which is fine because guys like Rose, Westbrook, and Parker are great, great players. But in terms of guys who are pass first PG's who are alpha dog level scorers at the same time, their aren't as many guys today who do it today. It's basically u are a score first PG or u are a PG like Rondo who's pass first but not an alpha dog kind of scorer with it. CP3, a healthy D-Will, and now Steph Curry are the kind of guys who dominate scoring AND passing. But in terms of depth, this may be the best PG era ever.

[Pointguard]

I think several team cultures have undermined the position a bit. In its optimal state (Magic Johnson) the point guard position is the:

1)The harmony piece that unites the offensive attack and initiates it.
2)The main player that adjust to opponents defensive priorities
3)The extension of the coach and provide on floor leadership
4)The main pace controller and time clock manager
5)The distributor who utilizes other players strengths to the max
6)The player that recognizes who's hot and makes sure its capitalized on.
7)The thinker and main chess player on the court
8)The central command post or possession manager that uses inspiration and aggression to involve players.
9)The main player that sees a defensive team weakness and executes a quick attack of it.
10)The main initiator and attack coordinator overall. The main creator - quarterback like in that they used the whole floor for attack.
11)Create for others and make something out of nothing. Force things to get other players going, and see things nobody else does.
12)Inherent in all of this is make the team function optimally and get the most out of the players and can dominate the game like (Magic,Kidd) without scoring.

Obviously, if a player does all 12 he's the best player on the floor if you are really into the game. Best example of this play maximized would be the 1987 Laker team that integrated the best running team with the best post game and the most efficient shooters through Magic's manipulations. This was the apex of offensive team execution. Magic could out execute other running teams, and be more efficient/precise/creative than the halfcourt teams. Magic could make more adjustments than any other player as well because he was more in-tuned with the other four players than any other player. Everybody was deadly on that court and inspired because Magic made it so. Best team player I ever seen.

Magic and Bird de-centralized the game and put the creator/thinker in the middle of the attack. Bird had many of the traits above. Centers were not creators/adjusters/pace controllers/team harmonizers/nor versatile in their execution or used a vary of positions on the floor. Wilt/Shaq were more dominant than Jordan but could not adjust, use the entire floor, be as creative, think of vast solutions, utilize other players as well. Duncan however, was the center evolution, he performed a lot of the above - Embiid will go one step further.

The game is somewhat over coached and has stripped a player like Wall who if told to run the ball every time (with his thinking cap on), would be a top 5 player in the league as he has great instincts and is a natural with getting teammates involved. Kyrie can get to anyplace on the court, is a skilled shot maker and can create for others but is also handicapped by coaching.

Chris Paul/Deron Williams had a lot of those traits but lost some aggression, doesn't maximize player's strengths as much, lost interest in inspiring others some. Rondo has a lot of the qualities, but not in a big measure, but lacks some basic skills (shooting). Curry has a great situation but lacks a lot of those qualities at this time. Lillard is one of the best but most don't see it yet.

Great coaches use motion offenses to counter the lack of a "Magic guard" when they don't have a Nash player. Motion forces players to become thinkers and play team ball even without true leaders (Princeton offense/Triangle offense/Spurs current offense). D'Antoni will tell you motion offense is the harder way to go. The Heat do not use enough motion to get a lot out of Lebron's passing talents and interaction with teammates and nullify a lot of his effectiveness.

[MavsSuperFan]

The position of point guard is overrated.
Its hard to win the championship when the smallest guy on your team is the best player.

[ralph_i_el]

But many of these PG's can't dominate a game in an alpha dog fashion AND be great at floor general-passing too. The guys like Magic, Isiah, Big O, Tiny, Nash and now CP3 did it at the highest levels. Many of these PG's today are for all intensive purposes combo guards or flat out small SG's. Which is fine because guys like Rose, Westbrook, and Parker are great, great players. But in terms of guys who are pass first PG's who are alpha dog level scorers at the same time, their aren't as many guys today who do it today. It's basically u are a score first PG or u are a PG like Rondo who's pass first but not an alpha dog kind of scorer with it. CP3, a healthy D-Will, and now Steph Curry are the kind of guys who dominate scoring AND passing. But in terms of depth, this may be the best PG era ever.

Sounds like you might like a little John Wall in your life

[FreezingTsmoove]

Mention Kyrie but not Tony :facepalm

[ninephive]

Mention Kyrie but not Tony :facepalm
I've pretty much given up at this point...it's a sad state of affairs. :facepalm