Most top 5 finishes in MVP voting

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kareem 15x
Russell 11x
Kobe 11x
Jordan 10x
Wilt 10x
Duncan 9x
Magic 9x
Bird 9x
Oscar 9x
K. Malone 9x
Lebron 8x
Shaq 8x
West 8x
Pettit 8x
Baylor 7x
Ewing 6x
Hakeem 6x
Erving 5x
Garnett 5x
Moses 5x
Robinson 5x
Cousy 4x
Barkley 4x
Cowens 4x
Gervin 4x
Durant 4x
Howard 4x

Sauces
1956-2002 http://www.sportsstats.com/bball/NBA/top5mvps.txt
http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2003.html

Link has top 5 MVP finshes from 1956-2002 and says that they were missing #3-5 for '77 and #4 for '79. Basketball reference has the full results for every year. Erving was 5th in '77 and Kareem was 4th in '79 (I added those results). Also added results from 2003-2013.

[rhythmic]

But Kobe's longevity isn't in discussion for GOAT tho.
Yet he has 15 all-star selections, most All-NBA 1st teams, most all-NBA defensive teams, and tied for 2nd in (top 5) MVP voting. :oldlol:

Will wait on the "he didn't deserve any of them" argument...3..2..1..

[JohnFreeman]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[qrich]

Compare the top 5 finishes to amount of times won?

[noob cake]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[JohnFreeman]

Kobe is an-allstar this year. All of Kobe's all-defensive are undeserved.

Case closed.
/thread

[Keno]

Why stop at top 5? Why not top 3 or top 2?:confusedshrug:

[215Philly]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[ImKobe]

lmao, Jordan and Lebron stans are really insecure about this

[Keno]

He was voted an allstar this year. Let that sink in for a min...

Nas - Ether.

[tpols]

Kareem 15x
Russell 11x
Kobe 11x
Jordan 10x
Wilt 10x
.

Top 5!!! Kobe!?

Its fvcking not fair damnit.. how can a sidekick place in MVPsssss

[Deuce Bigalow]

Why stop at top 5? Why not top 3 or top 2?:confusedshrug:
You could figure those out by looking at the sauces.

[ImKobe]

He really didn't deserve the defensive teams..

Because you actually watched him play all the years he got the defensive team votes, right? No.

Give me stats on why Kobe was not a good defender from 2000-2011, and you'll have a case there. I'm looking through all the years available, and Kobe holds his opponents below league average PER every year, and their eFG% is 4-5% lower than the league average nearly every season, seems like he can play defense to me :confusedshrug:

[SamuraiSWISH]

But Kobe's longevity isn't in discussion for GOAT tho.
Yet he has 15 all-star selections, most All-NBA 1st teams, most all-NBA defensive teams, and tied for 2nd in (top 5) MVP voting. :oldlol:

Will wait on the "he didn't deserve any of them" argument...3..2..1..
Come on now, I agree with what you're saying but Kobe had plenty of seasons where he didn't actually deserve some of the all 1st team defensive selections. Secondary teams in some cases, yes. Kobe should've had 2 to 3 MVPs. Same goes for Shaq. It's unfortunate.

[rhythmic]

He was voted an allstar this year. Let that sink in for a min...

Which is why I said 15 time All-Star, not 16... let that sink in for a minute.
Who cares about all-defense teams you idiots? All-NBA 1st team is what determines that overall value of a player anyways and he has the most of any player in league history.

I'm talking about longevity here, not whether Kobe is better than X player. Even you haters can't deny that Kobe has been one of the very best for a very long time.

[Keno]

LeBron 8x in 11 seasons. Safe to say he's passing Kobe in this too.

[JohnFreeman]

Because you actually watched him play all the years he got the defensive team votes, right? No.

Give me stats on why Kobe was not a good defender from 2000-2011, and you'll have a case there. I'm looking through all the years available, and Kobe holds his opponents below league average PER every year, and their eFG% is 4-5% lower than the league average nearly every season, seems like he can play defense to me :confusedshrug:
[QUOTE]"Kobe

[rhythmic]

Gotta love how haters just derail the intent of a thread.
What does LeBron have to do with Kobe? Does All-defense selections really matter when determining longevity or does All-NBA 1st teams suffice?

Do you guys ever use your brain, or do you purposely troll without giving a shit about your content?

[ImKobe]

From Phil Jackson

This is from 2004, when the band broke up on bad terms, show me evidence from 06-2011, please.

[ImKobe]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[kennethgriffin]

Kareem 15x - 6 mvps
Russell 11x - 5 mvps
Kobe 11x - ............................................. 1 mvp
Jordan 10x - 5 mvps
Wilt 10x - 4 mvps
Duncan 9x - 2 mvps
Magic 9x - 3 mvps
Bird 9x - 3 mvps
Oscar 9x - 1 mvp
K. Malone 9x - 2 mvps
Lebron 8x -..............................................4 mvps
Shaq 8x - 1 mvp
West 8x - 0 mvps
Pettit 8x - 2 mvps
Baylor 7x - 0 mvps
Ewing 6x - 0 mvps
Hakeem 6x - 1 mvp
Erving 5x - 1 mvp
Moses 5x - 3 mvps
Robinson 5x - 1 mvp



notice how the natural declining trend among everyone but kobe and lebron

almost as if those 2 should switch places

wonder why

:rolleyes:

[Joyner82reload]

LeBron 8x in 11 seasons. Safe to say he's passing Kobe in this too.

Durant has 5 in 7 seasons
2010-2nd
2011-5th
2012-2nd
2013-2nd
2014-1st

[215Philly]

Durant has 5 in 7 seasons
2010-2nd
2011-5th
2012-2nd
2013-2nd
2014-1st
Future second best perimeter scorer of all time :applause:

[rhythmic]

Durant has 5 in 7 seasons
2010-2nd
2011-5th
2012-2nd
2013-2nd
2014-1st

Yes, because having Paul, LeBron & Howard as your main competition compared to Garnett, Shaquille, Duncan, McGrady, Iverson, Dirk, Nash, Kidd is really a fair comparison.

Lets be real here; LeBron is very fortunate he has played his entire career in the weakest conference ever. Against an aging group of legends without any real MVP candidate besides Durant & Paul.

Kobe, Dirk, Nash, Duncan, Shaq, Garnett are all old or retired...Rose is injured...Melo is a loser...Paul has never smelled the NBA finals...I mean Aldridge and Roy are Durant/James's main competition this season.

ENOUGH SAID.
Everything needs to be put in context sometimes...

[SamuraiSWISH]

lmao, Jordan and Lebron stans are really insecure about this
Why would LeBron stans be insecure about this? LeBron already has won 4x MVPs. 3x more than Kobe, and already tied Kobe's Finals MVP total. We're talking defintive MVP awards, not arbitrary top five finish award. No lifetime achievement award.

Even worse why would Jordan stans need to be insecure or threatned? Guy has 5x MVP awards. 4x more than Kobe. Even worse considering he was essentially hosed out of the '89, '90, '93, and '97 MVPs. Years he was still clearly the best player.

MJ has an argument for 9x legit MVP seasons where to most he would have been definitively considered the best player in the league.

AND he retired for two years of his prime in '94, and '95. That's silly stupid level of domination.

The whole point of this thread is because Kobe stans feel insecure that he's coming up short in this regard compared to Jordan, and LeBron. I mean, top five finish is beyond arbitrary.

Why not do top three finish for MVP? It would be a better representation of who was closer to the throne as the league's best player.

[Audio One]

Even worse considering he was essentially hosed out of '97 MVP

Why do you Jordan fanatics always say this, when Jordan stole the award from the Mailman the very next year?

[rhythmic]

Why would LeBron stans be insecure about this? LeBron already has won 4x MVPs. 3x more than Kobe, and already tied Kobe's Finals MVP total. We're talking defintive MVP awards, not arbitrary top five finish award. No lifetime achievement award.

Even worse why would Jordan stans need to be insecure or threatned? Guy has 5x MVP awards. 4x more than Kobe. Even worse considering he was essentially hosed out of the '89, '90, '93, and '97 MVPs. Years he was still clearly the best player.

MJ has an argument for 9x legit MVP seasons where to most he would have been definitively considered the best player in the league.

The whole point of this thread is because Kobe stans feel insecure that he's coming up short in this regard compared to Jordan, and LeBron. I mean, top five finish is beyond arbitrary.

Why not do top three finish for MVP? It would be a better representation of who was closer to the throne as the league's best player.


I respected your knowledge until I read this garbage.
I don't care how many MVP awards Jordan has, to me, he's the greatest of all-time. Why? Because he had that mystique about him. He was very talented and extremely athletic. He had the killer instinct, beautiful skill-set (aesthetically pleasing), great defender and extremely clutch.

I don't care if he won 0 MVPs, he'd still be way better than LeBron ever will be. James just does not possess that winner mentality. As a Laker fan, I feared every time we played Chicago. If we won, I considered us lucky and prayed MJ would have an off night. LeBron? Meh, especially in the playoffs...I just expected him to choke. That's the perception I have of them. I don't need some arbitrary awards to notify me of who's better.

No one on the planet considers Nash better than Shaq...
Circumstances, competition, talent pool, context all need to be considered.

In LeBron's case; what I'll remember most about him is he needed a lot of help and a lot of fortune to accomplish those individual accolades. Statistically, he can be the GOAT...but as the overall package? He will NEVER touch Michael. He played in a weak conference against very few legit MVP candidates and joined forces (at the time) with the 2nd best player in the league (plus another all-star).

Sorry, stop comparing MVP awards or PER like its the means to all ends. :sleeping

[rhythmic]

Why would LeBron stans be insecure about this? LeBron already has won 4x MVPs. 3x more than Kobe, and already tied Kobe's Finals MVP total. We're talking defintive MVP awards, not arbitrary top five finish award. No lifetime achievement award.

Even worse why would Jordan stans need to be insecure or threatned? Guy has 5x MVP awards. 4x more than Kobe. Even worse considering he was essentially hosed out of the '89, '90, '93, and '97 MVPs. Years he was still clearly the best player.

MJ has an argument for 9x legit MVP seasons where to most he would have been definitively considered the best player in the league.

AND he retired for two years of his prime in '94, and '95. That's silly stupid level of domination.

The whole point of this thread is because Kobe stans feel insecure that he's coming up short in this regard compared to Jordan, and LeBron. I mean, top five finish is beyond arbitrary.

Why not do top three finish for MVP? It would be a better representation of who was closer to the throne as the league's best player.

NO IT DOESN'T. :roll:
Jesus Christ.

Teammates matter a lot...

[Joyner82reload]

Yes, because having Paul, LeBron & Howard as your main competition compared to Garnett, Shaquille, Duncan, McGrady, Iverson, Dirk, Nash, Kidd is really a fair comparison.

Lets be real here; LeBron is very fortunate he has played his entire career in the weakest conference ever. Against an aging group of legends without any real MVP candidate besides Durant & Paul.

Kobe, Dirk, Nash, Duncan, Shaq, Garnett are all old or retired...Rose is injured...Melo is a loser...Paul has never smelled the NBA finals...I mean Aldridge and Roy are Durant/James's main competition this season.

ENOUGH SAID.
Everything needs to be put in context sometimes...

Shaq's started declining in 2003
McGrady has 1 season as a real MVP candidate
Duncan's started declining in 2007
KG's started declining in 2007
Iverson shouldn't have ever been considered an MVP candidate, much less win one
Nash is one of the weakest MVP's ever
Dirk was never an all time GOAT type candidate for the regular season


2014 Durant & 2013 James would have won MVP in every season from 1999-2008 aside from 2000 and maybe 2003/2004.

[qrich]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[rhythmic]

Shaq's started declining in 2003
McGrady has 1 season as a real MVP candidate
Duncan's started declining in 2007
KG's started declining in 2007
Iverson shouldn't have ever been considered an MVP candidate, much less win one
Nash is one of the weakest MVP's ever
Dirk was never an all time GOAT type candidate for the regular season


2014 Durant & 2013 James would have won MVP in every season from 1999-2008 aside from 2000 and maybe 2003/2004.

This is complete bullshit. You're simply assuming everything is static. James/Durant would face far stiffer competition and would get far less lime light when they have 7-8 other legit superstars stealing the spotlight. Plus, the competition they face today is pathetic. There are no "dominant" teams anymore. Teams like 2000 Blazers, 2001 Lakers, 2002 Kings, 2004 Pistons, 2003 Spurs etc. would obliterate the Pacers to pieces. And they have the best record in the league.

2013 James & 2014 Durant had years that would certainly make them front runners...no doubt about it. But I'm not sure if they would put up those same numbers or have their teams win as many games if all those other superstars were on different teams. The competition today is pathetically weak and has been for half a decade now, especially in the eastern conference.

[rhythmic]

Aldridge isn't top 3 at his position and Roy is retired?

LMA is a top 5 candidate this season and I meant Paul George. Sorry had a brain fart.

[DMAVS41]

so Lebron will have 9 in his first 11 seasons....wow

how many did kobe have in his first 11 seasons?

[rhythmic]

so Lebron will have 9 in his first 11 seasons....wow

how many did kobe have in his first 11 seasons?

Would Howard, Paul, George, Rose and Carmelo even be top 10 from 2001 to 2008? :oldlol: Maybe Paul...

Shaq, Kobe, McGrady, Duncan, Garnett, Kidd, Dirk, Nash, Webber, Iverson...

Jesus I doubt Howard, George or Carmelo would even be considered better than Yao or Carter/Stoudemire. :oldlol:

[DMAVS41]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[rhythmic]

But look at the years Kobe wasn't top 5.

Kobe from 97 through 00 would not finish top 5 in MVP voting today.

Kobe wouldn't finish top 5 in his 05 season either.

So what's the problem? Kobe didn't miss out on one top 5 finish in his first 11 years from 97 through 07 by playing in his era as opposed to now.

You really think Kobe's 00 is beating out Lebron, Durant, Paul George, Blake Griffin, Love, Aldridge, Curry, Paul...etc. Nope...not happening.

So what years in which Kobe didn't get top 5 MVP in his era would he get now? Please answer...

Yes lets compare two high schoolers.
One was picked 1st overall and was given all the minutes in the world to develop (including being a starter from the get go). To Kobe, who was picked 13th overall, had to play with Shaquille and come off the bench for 2 years playing behind a pretty good SG (Eddie Jones).

In 2005, Kobe had a bad year but he was also injured...he also was coming off a rough year mentally (due to his trial) and LA losing their head coach to illness didn't help.

You're pathetic with your attempts seriously. You just create random scenarios in your head and alter the discussion just to bring up more irrelevant points.

[KyleKong]

Cookies and Kareem :bowdown:

[DMAVS41]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[215Philly]

No, you said Kobe would have more in this era. And I'm asking you which years that Kobe didn't finish top 5 in his era...would he have now.

It's a valid question and you don't have a response that is coherent at all.

And why? Because Kobe wasn't ****ing good enough to finish top 5 in MVP voting in 97, 98, 99, 00, and 05 in any year of the modern era...well, 00 could be on horribly down years.

So once again you have a shit argument that I just ethered.

Welcome to ISH bitch...
:lebronamazed:

[BigTicket]

What the OP doesn't mention is that Kobe was mostly near the bottom of that top 5, with 9 out of the 11 coming from 3rd-5th place finishes.

If you did the list for top 3 finishes instead, this is what it would look like:

#1 - Jordan - 10 (5-3-2)
#2 - Kareem - 9 (6-1-2)
#3 - Russell - 9 (5-2-2)
#4 - Magic - 9 (3-2-4)
#5 - Bird - 8 (3-4-1)
#6 - Wilt - 7 (4-2-1)
#7 - Lebron - 6 (4-1-1)
#8 - Duncan - 5 (2-2-1)
#9 - Pettit - 5 (2-2-1)
#10 - Malone - 5 (2-1-2)
#11 - Robinson - 5 (1-2-2)
#12 - Shaq -5 (1-2-2)
#13 - Kobe - 5 (1-1-3)
#14 - Oscar - 5 (1-1-3)
#15 - West - 5 (0-4-1)

[AintNoSunshine]

Since the chucker only has one real MVP trophy, let's make a list of most top5 finishes:oldlol: how obvious and how pathetic

[sportjames23]

Why do you Jordan fanatics always say this, when Jordan stole the award from the Mailman the very next year?


Stole? Nikka, you serious? :oldlol:

[arifgokcen]

lmao, Jordan and Lebron stans are really insecure about this
I am not a lebron stan but why would they be unsecure.Lebron is 5 years younger and assuming he can stay healthy he wil have achieved that feat by 2016 and he will only be 32

and for jordan,he finished top 3 every year excluding wizards day and rookie year

[DMV2]

Kobe 11x
Jordan 10x
Lebron 8x

Jordan 5 for 10 (50%)
LeBron 4 for 8 (50%)

That efficiency! That dominance! :bowdown:

:roll: Kobe 1 for 11 (.09) just chucking his way to that one MVP.

[215Philly]

Jordan 5 for 10 (50%)
LeBron 4 for 8 (50%)

That efficiency! That dominance! :bowdown:

:roll: Kobe 1 for 11 (.09) just chucking his way to that one MVP.
:lol

[IMObjective]

He was voted an allstar this year. Let that sink in for a min...
And has absolutely no chance of getting ANY mvp votes, so why try to relate the 2 things. Obviously all star selections are pretty different from mvp voting.

[IMObjective]

It's been since like 08, but I think I'm now going to have to get back to being on team Kobe...

The lack of respect he gets on here lately is a joke

Dude gonna prove a lot of people wrong yet again for like the 10th time in his career...:pimp:

Ever plan on following through with this?

I can see it now, dmavs getting into one of his rambling, long winded arguments............ with himself

[ArbitraryWater]

Oh my, LeBron gonna surpass that shit in a landslide..

Btw, why Kobe got 11? 2001, 2003, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012.

Can only count 9 legit ones..

[ArbitraryWater]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[Jasper]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[TerranOP]

Kareem 15x - 6 mvps
Russell 11x - 5 mvps
Kobe 11x - ............................................. 1 mvp
Jordan 10x - 5 mvps
Wilt 10x - 4 mvps
Duncan 9x - 2 mvps
Magic 9x - 3 mvps
Bird 9x - 3 mvps
Oscar 9x - 1 mvp
K. Malone 9x - 2 mvps
Lebron 8x -..............................................4 mvps
Shaq 8x - 1 mvp
West 8x - 0 mvps
Pettit 8x - 2 mvps
Baylor 7x - 0 mvps
Ewing 6x - 0 mvps
Hakeem 6x - 1 mvp
Erving 5x - 1 mvp
Moses 5x - 3 mvps
Robinson 5x - 1 mvp



notice how the natural declining trend among everyone but kobe and lebron

almost as if those 2 should switch places

wonder why

:rolleyes:


Yeah it's almost as if Lebron has played fewer seasons than anyone else on that list. Weird huh?

[Keno]

Jordan 5 for 10 (50%)
LeBron 4 for 8 (50%)

That efficiency! That dominance! :bowdown:

:roll: Kobe 1 for 11 (.09) just chucking his way to that one MVP.
:roll:

[Deuce Bigalow]

Top 3 MVP finishes

Jordan 10x
Kareem 9x
Russell 9x
Magic 9x
Bird 8x
Wilt 7x
Lebron 6x
West 5x
Pettit 5x
Kobe 5x
Shaq 5x
Duncan 5x
Oscar 5x
Robinson 5x
K. Malone 5x
Baylor 4x
Moses 4x
Garnett 4x
Cowens 3x
McAdoo 3x
Erving 3x
Garnett 3x
Durant 3x
Gervin 3x
Dirk 3x
Nash 3x

[Solefade]

lmao, Jordan and Lebron stans are really insecure about this


the irony of this post and thread lol

[Solefade]

No, you said Kobe would have more in this era. And I'm asking you which years that Kobe didn't finish top 5 in his era...would he have now.

It's a valid question and you don't have a response that is coherent at all.

And why? Because Kobe wasn't ****ing good enough to finish top 5 in MVP voting in 97, 98, 99, 00, and 05 in any year of the modern era...well, 00 could be on horribly down years.

So once again you have a shit argument that I just ethered.

Welcome to ISH bitch...


:eek: :eek:

[Deuce Bigalow]

I forgot Garnett in the OP. He was top 5 MVP 5x.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Oh my, LeBron gonna surpass that shit in a landslide..

Btw, why Kobe got 11? 2001, 2003, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012.

Can only count 9 legit ones..
Didn't make the top 5 in 2001. 2002, 2013, 2004.

[WillC]

What the OP doesn't mention is that Kobe was mostly near the bottom of that top 5, with 9 out of the 11 coming from 3rd-5th place finishes.

If you did the list for top 3 finishes instead, this is what it would look like:

#1 - Jordan - 10 (5-3-2)
#2 - Kareem - 9 (6-1-2)
#3 - Russell - 9 (5-2-2)
#4 - Magic - 9 (3-2-4)
#5 - Bird - 8 (3-4-1)
#6 - Wilt - 7 (4-2-1)
#7 - Lebron - 6 (4-1-1)
#8 - Duncan - 5 (2-2-1)
#9 - Pettit - 5 (2-2-1)
#10 - Malone - 5 (2-1-2)
#11 - Robinson - 5 (1-2-2)
#12 - Shaq -5 (1-2-2)
#13 - Kobe - 5 (1-1-3)
#14 - Oscar - 5 (1-1-3)
#15 - West - 5 (0-4-1)

Very interesting indeed. It nearly tallies with my rankings of the best players ever. If MVP data was available, Mikan would surely have at least seven top 3 finishes.

[Deuce Bigalow]

What the OP doesn't mention is that Kobe was mostly near the bottom of that top 5, with 9 out of the 11 coming from 3rd-5th place finishes.

If you did the list for top 3 finishes instead, this is what it would look like:

#1 - Jordan - 10 (5-3-2)
#2 - Kareem - 9 (6-1-2)
#3 - Russell - 9 (5-2-2)
#4 - Magic - 9 (3-2-4)
#5 - Bird - 8 (3-4-1)
#6 - Wilt - 7 (4-2-1)
#7 - Lebron - 6 (4-1-1)
#8 - Duncan - 5 (2-2-1)
#9 - Pettit - 5 (2-2-1)
#10 - Malone - 5 (2-1-2)
#11 - Robinson - 5 (1-2-2)
#12 - Shaq -5 (1-2-2)
#13 - Kobe - 5 (1-1-3)
#14 - Oscar - 5 (1-1-3)
#15 - West - 5 (0-4-1)
Yeah I "purposefully" left that out :rolleyes:

I gave links where you could look at the results yourself :oldlol:

I don't use MVPs to judge who was the better player anyways. Shaq wasn't top 3 in 01 and 02, Kobe wasn't top 3 in 06, Dirk wasn't top 5 in '11, ect.

[SavageMode]

Thread backfire.

Lebron with 4 MVPS and Kobe with only 1 :roll: :roll:

[SamuraiSWISH]

Stole? Nikka, you serious? :oldlol:
Seriously ...

He doesn't get it in 1997 when he basically averaged 30 / 6 / 4 while leading a team to a 69 - 13 record. The previous best regular season record, a year after breaking the record with 72 - 10.

When was Karl Malone missing his second best player, John Stockton for nearly half the season the way MJ @ 35 years old had to carry the Bulls without Pippen for much of '98?

Shaq was probably the most impactful player in '98, but he missed a ton of games, and did less with more talent than both Jordan, and Malone.

MJ did more with less in '98, and still managed to lead the Bulls to 62 wins.

:applause:

[Solefade]

Seriously ...

He doesn't get it when he basically averaged 30 / 6 / 4 while leading a team to a 69 - 13 record. The previous best regular season record, a year after breaking the record with 72 - 10.

When was Karl Malone missing his second best player, John Stockton for nearly half the season the way MJ @ 35 years old had to carry the Bulls without Pippen for much of '98?

Shaq was probably the most impactful player in '98, but he missed a ton of games, and did less with more talent than both Jordan, and Malone.

MJ did more with less in '98, and still managed to lead the Bulls to 62 wins while being 5 years away from turning 40.

:applause:

nice avy lol

[moe94]

Cool avy, Samurai.

[Audio One]

Seriously ...

He doesn't get it in 1997 when he basically averaged 30 / 6 / 4 while leading a team to a 69 - 13 record. The previous best regular season record, a year after breaking the record with 72 - 10.

When was Karl Malone missing his second best player, John Stockton for nearly half the season the way MJ @ 35 years old had to carry the Bulls without Pippen for much of '98?

Shaq was probably the most impactful player in '98, but he missed a ton of games, and did less with more talent than both Jordan, and Malone.

MJ did more with less in '98, and still managed to lead the Bulls to 62 wins.

:applause:

Here are their numbers from '98, which quite clearly show Malone's edge:

Malone 27 ppg, 10.3 rpg, 3.9 apg, 1.2 spg, 0.9 bpg 53FG%
Jordan 28.3 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 3.5 apg, 1.7 spg, 0.4 bpg 46 FG%

All of this, while winning the season series aganist Chicago 2-0 :cheers:

If you're gonna credit Jordan for having a good record with a weaker cast, then it's only fair to do the same for Malone in '97. Jordan had a much better supporting cast in '97, playing with 2 other HOF's, and having solid role players in Cartwright, an ex-All Star that actually had a post game, the 6'11 mismatch Kukoc, Ron Harper that could create off the dribble, and defended solidly.

In 97:

Malone: 27.0 ppg, 10.3 rpg, 3.9 apg, 1.2 spg, 0.9 bpg 53 FG% 69 wins
Jordan: 29.6 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 4.3 apg, 1.7 spg, 0.5 bpg 48.6 FG& 64 wins


Once again for clarifiction: Pippen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stockton, and Rodman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anybody else on that Utah roster. A couple of questionable calls in that game 6 in '98, and with that win, great momentum going into the 7th game and a decent chance to win, and this isn't a question.

[East_Stone_Ya]

Bron will take the second places once he is retired