Genetics in athleticism vs. genetics in intelligence?

[sundizz]

I'm just curious what people's thoughts on this are. Countries like China and India are a very long shot to win certain types of gold medals. Is this a training/upbringing thing or genetics of the race of the people from the country?

Similarly, to be a rocket scientists or something, do people of a certain race have an inherent disadvantage when it comes to certain intelligence based tasks?

Of course there are exceptions...a genius can be from any race. However, what I'm asking is if you think/think it is racist for people to have the view that one race of people is inherently better/worse at something like computer science. Moreso, is this inherent difference more/less in physical things or in mental things?

For example:
Statistically randomly choose 500 US 18 year old black Americans (100 girls, 100 guys)

Statistically randomly choose 500 US 18 year old white Americans (100 girls, 100 guys)

Statistically randomly choose 500 18 year old Indians from India (100 girls, 100 guys)

and give them an athletic barometer test (such as running, jumping, strength etc) and the results would almost always be 1) black Americans, 2) white Americans 3) Indians.

I'd say even if you gave all three groups 1 year to train the results would likely be the same.

[iamgine]

I'm just curious what people's thoughts on this are. Countries like China and India are a very long shot to win certain types of gold medals. Is this a training/upbringing thing or genetics of the race of the people from the country?

Similarly, to be a rocket scientists or something, do people of a certain race have an inherent disadvantage when it comes to certain intelligence based tasks?

Of course there are exceptions...a genius can be from any race. However, what I'm asking is if you think/think it is racist for people to have the view that one race of people is inherently better/worse at something like computer science. Moreso, is this inherent difference more/less in physical things or in mental things?

For example:
Statistically randomly choose 500 US 18 year old black Americans (100 girls, 100 guys)

Statistically randomly choose 500 US 18 year old white Americans (100 girls, 100 guys)

Statistically randomly choose 500 18 year old Indians from India (100 girls, 100 guys)

and give them an athletic barometer test (such as running, jumping, strength etc) and the results would almost always be 1) black Americans, 2) white Americans 3) Indians.

I'd say even if you gave all three groups 1 year to train the results would likely be the same.
I thought it's proven that black people are generally more athletically gifted by genetics.

But I don't think there's proof that any race is inherently smarter/dumber than others. It's all about the environment they grew up in.

[Micku]

I thought it's proven that black people are generally more athletically gifted by genetics.

But I don't think there's proof that any race is inherently smarter/dumber than others. It's all about the environment they grew up in.

Scientists I think test that with twins. Since identical twins have the same DNA, they would be likely to have the same or extremely similar IQ even if they are separated, which they do. So, it does play a big role.

I remember reading that the genetics in IQ is pretty high in adulthood. Like between 70-80% heritability. But pretty low in childhood. As low as 20%.

Like everything, some outside source is require. Like with height it depends on your nutrition. With intelligence, it depends on environment and teaching. And also depends on what your mom eats in order to make sure your brain is develop property. If you have two high IQ parents, the kid is likely to have a high IQ. Sometimes it doesn't work that way similar to height.

But there are obviously ppl who are born with superior understanding or quicker wit than some ppl.

So...it just depends on the ppl that are breeding that will determine the likely IQ or athletic part. With this experiment, I'm guessing you could get some weird result in saying this race would have the highest average athletic people while the other race would have the most athletic individual person. Same thing with IQ.

[Gabi]

Socrates believed that every soul is conceived with knowledge but to bring it forward you need a midwife just like childbirth. I will not take a side on this question since I do not really have a definite stand. BUT I do believe that some people have the bigger capacity regardless of who tutored them and that has a lot to do with genetics, but if that is limited to the race you are from I would say no.

[doublethetrouble]

100 + 100 does not equal 500.... :hammerhead:

besides that is way too small of a sample size and you can't just arbitrarily say lets take all the 18 year olds and only form a cohort out of that age group. thats not how it works.

anyway, as for the original question, go to google scholar and look it up. theres a billion scientific articles with varying results you can look at.

obviously genetics play a huge role in both athleticism and intelligence, but just exactly how much is unconfirmed. as far as measuring intelligence, its far too sensitive of a topic for people to dig into with absolute detail. l mean imagine if lets say you discover white people are inherently smarter than black/brown/asian people on average are you really gonna publish the article and face the public backlash? likewise for any other race tbh, no race is going to take it well when you tell them they are straight up dumber than other colors.

[fiddy]

I thought it's proven that black people are generally more athletically gifted by genetics.

But I don't think there's proof that any race is inherently smarter/dumber than others. It's all about the environment they grew up in.
Even if there was a scientific proof, it would never make it to the general public. Just image whats going to happen if they single out a race as a dumber than others.

[Dresta]

I thought it's proven that black people are generally more athletically gifted by genetics.

But I don't think there's proof that any race is inherently smarter/dumber than others. It's all about the environment they grew up in.
:facepalm

Athletic ability determined by genetics.

Intelligence determined by environment.

:hammerhead:

You must have grown up in a bad environment to be this dim.


edit: i should also say there is no objective measure of intelligence; ergo, intelligence is entirely subjective. I can posit that the more money you earn the more intelligent you are and nobody can prove me wrong. I can also posit the more children you have the more intelligent you are and you cannot prove me wrong. I can also assert that the intelligent thing to do in life is kill yourself, and so all living human beings are by definition imbeciles. And on and on.

[Bush4Ever]

:facepalm

Athletic ability determined by genetics.

Intelligence determined by environment.

:hammerhead:

You must have grown up in a bad environment to be this dim.

oh so u belief sum people r better then otehrs right?

HITLER had the sam beliefs as u by the way :mad: :mad:

[fiddy]

oh so u belief sum people r better then otehrs right?

HITLER had the sam beliefs as u by the way :mad: :mad:
Whats wrong with the fuehrer?

[Dresta]

oh so u belief sum people r better then otehrs right?

HITLER had the sam beliefs as u by the way :mad: :mad:
Well obviously some are of greater worth than others. But then again that is my subjective opinion, so really all are of equal worth, it is only my subjective sentiment that distinguishes any difference in merit.

subjective. subjective. subjective. Fritzl or Mandela? I choose Fritzl. Raping and sodomising your daughter in a dungeon for 20 years is what's important, but that's just my subjective opinion talking.

[Gabi]

oh so u belief sum people r better then otehrs right?

HITLER had the sam beliefs as u by the way :mad: :mad:

Hitler was also a vegeterian.

Guilt by association:facepalm

[fiddy]

Hitler was also a vegeterian.

Guilt by association:facepalm
No, mein fuehrer is not puzzy (vegetarian) http://www.naturalnews.com/025163_Hitler_vegetarian_vegetarianism.html#

[Bush4Ever]

Well obviously some are of greater worth than others. But then again that is my subjective opinion, so really all are of equal worth, it is only my subjective sentiment that distinguishes any difference in merit.

subjective. subjective. subjective. Fritzl or Mandela? I choose Fritzl. Raping and sodomising your daughter in a dungeon for 20 years is what's important, but that's just my subjective opinion talking.

no one is borne better than anyone at anything race doesnt exist it is a social construction we are all the same at everything thinking otherwise is racist sexist and hatred is bad and by the way **** you for your nazi hitler post

:mad: :mad:

[fiddy]

no one is borne better than anyone at anything race doesnt exist it is a social construction we are all the same at everything thinking otherwise is racist sexist and hatred is bad and by the way **** you for your nazi hitler post

:mad: :mad:
stereotypes are healthy, anything else is living in denial for the sake of a certain policy

[sundizz]

So what people seem to be saying is

Standard math test is given to 18 year olds: 500 black Americans, 500 white Americans, 500 Chinese Americans, and 500 Indian Americans

Each group of 500 is economically/grew up similar:
1. 2 parents, both with undergrad degrees
2. Both parents working, total household income over 100k
3. Live in equally "suburban" safe neighborhoods
4. Were born and brought up in those standards.
5. Participate in 2-5 hours of extracurricular (non athletic) activities a week.

All four of those groups would perform the same (statistically similar enough) for most academic types of testing?

However, exact same kids and conditions and they are given an athletic test that it would likely turn out:
1. Black Americans
2,3,4: Not sure

Does that seem to be the consensus?

[iamgine]

So what people seem to be saying is

Standard math test is given to 18 year olds: 500 black Americans, 500 white Americans, 500 Chinese Americans, and 500 Indian Americans

Each group of 500 is economically/grew up similar:
1. 2 parents, both with undergrad degrees
2. Both parents working, total household income over 100k
3. Live in equally "suburban" safe neighborhoods
4. Were born and brought up in those standards.
5. Participate in 2-5 hours of extracurricular (non athletic) activities a week.

All four of those groups would perform the same (statistically similar enough) for most academic types of testing?

However, exact same kids and conditions and they are given an athletic test that it would likely turn out:
1. Black Americans
2,3,4: Not sure

Does that seem to be the consensus?
Hmm that test wouldn't work very well in determining result because of a few reasons. Asian parents tend to push their child in academics more, therefore causing anomaly. And some parents beat their kids, that might push/detract them from studying hard. Not to mention stereotype exists so kids are treated differently at home/school and have different expectations placed upon them. And many more. Their intelligence capacity I believe is similar, it's just these outside factors that will make the premise invalid no matter the result.

In an athletic testing, 500 might be too small a sample but yeah that should generally be the result.

[Kblaze8855]

I think it depends on how you test. How you could find a way to make the test an issue of genetic ability and not the life you have lived.

The average Asian in America is sure to do better than the average Asian from Asia in say....the kind of IQ tests you see in learning centers or online. Wouldn't make him superior by genetics...it would mean hes raised in New Jersey by parents who worked their asses off and made him do the same in school so hes been thinking in such a way as to be a good problem solver on logic questions and such....

At least compared to an Asian in Asia pulled at random who might well be a.....fisherman in southern china?

I strongly suspect that my ability to do well on some kind of mental acuity test is impacted by my mother and grandmother both being teachers who stressed the kind of things that help me. If I were born in a village in the Ivory coast and had my arm chopped off at 8 to mine diamonds at gunpoint...I might not seem so intelligent.

Besides Indians and Chinese are like 40% of the worlds population. You cant really assume that because a high percentage of the worlds _____ come from them that means the 3 billion people floating around down there are better at it than others.

There are billions of them...shouldn't they be the most...of many things? Especially when their governments push it. Indias engineering programs and all.

I don't know how we use the drop in the bucket that is the Asian population involved in anything that takes great mental ability to judge the bucket....

Chinese and Indian scientists are a raindrop in a lake of people.

Im not sure how you judge the whole.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

No point in discussing this.

Ask Budadiii for a weightlifting or braintraining regime and he will deliver.

[tomtucker]

No point in discussing this.

Ask Budadiii for a weightlifting or braintraining regime and he will deliver.

where is buda btw , havn

[-p.tiddy-]

I thought it's proven that black people are generally more athletically gifted by genetics.

"African Americans" are athletically gifted...not "black people"


African Americans are more athletic than Africans (on average)...this is due to the slave trade and selective breeding

Jamaicans are like this as well...and many blacks native to South America

the summer olympic events in speed and jumping are completely dominated by the ancestors of the slave trade...as well as the NFL/NBA/MLB (perhaps the majority of the best soccer players are also linked to slavery idk)

[PHX_Phan]

I don't think there is an observable distinction in intelligence the same way there is in athleticism, where we can see that certain races have more fast twitch or slow twitch muscle fibers than others.

Even between brothers and sisters there can be disparities in intelligence. When you look at some of the greatest thinkers, how many of their siblings or offspring were also especially intelligent? Meanwhile there are a lot of siblings and offspring of great athletes in pro sports.

[Keno]

Hopefully he died.
http://i.imgur.com/kgCkX08.gif

[oarabbus]

:facepalm

Athletic ability determined by genetics.

Intelligence determined by environment.

:hammerhead:

You must have grown up in a bad environment to be this dim.



Wrong :no:

Both athletic ability and intelligence have a heritable component as well as an environmental component. Some people's brains exhibit greater plasticity (and for longer) than other people (due to genetic factors e.g. BDNF genes) and some people's athletic ability is highly affected by their environment whether you're talking about motivation/coaching, diet/nutrition, or epigenetic effects on muscles. Even your height, although heavily dictated by genetics, isn't 100% so. There are still environmental factors which have an effect on height.

Simplifying it to "athleticism is genetic, intelligence is environmental" doesn't do anyone any favors. There is an interplay between nature/nurture with very few exceptions.

[Dresta]

Wrong :no:

Both athletic ability and intelligence have a heritable component as well as an environmental component. Some people's brains exhibit greater plasticity (and for longer) than other people (due to genetic factors e.g. BDNF genes) and some people's athletic ability is highly affected by their environment whether you're talking about motivation/coaching, diet/nutrition, or epigenetic effects on muscles. Even your height, although heavily dictated by genetics, isn't 100% so. There are still environmental factors which have an effect on height.

Simplifying it to "athleticism is genetic, intelligence is environmental" doesn't do anyone any favors. There is an interplay between nature/nurture with very few exceptions.
Yeah, i know man. I was only pointing out that that was an extremely stupid thing to say, and laughing at the person who said it.

[oarabbus]

Yeah, i know man. I was only pointing out that that was an extremely stupid thing to say, and laughing at the person who said it.


:hammerhead:

****, my bad dude. Castastrophic failure to understand context :facepalm

[iamgine]

Wrong :no:

Both athletic ability and intelligence have a heritable component as well as an environmental component. Some people's brains exhibit greater plasticity (and for longer) than other people (due to genetic factors e.g. BDNF genes) and some people's athletic ability is highly affected by their environment whether you're talking about motivation/coaching, diet/nutrition, or epigenetic effects on muscles. Even your height, although heavily dictated by genetics, isn't 100% so. There are still environmental factors which have an effect on height.

Simplifying it to "athleticism is genetic, intelligence is environmental" doesn't do anyone any favors. There is an interplay between nature/nurture with very few exceptions.
This is true, both are genetic and environment. But when we are talking about an entire race vs another, I think they are about equal in intelligence capacity. The rest is up to culture and environment. Athleticism though, I've read that black (fine, african american) people are generally more athletic. That's how I think it differs.

[iamgine]

"African Americans" are athletically gifted...not "black people"


African Americans are more athletic than Africans (on average)...this is due to the slave trade and selective breeding

Jamaicans are like this as well...and many blacks native to South America

the summer olympic events in speed and jumping are completely dominated by the ancestors of the slave trade...as well as the NFL/NBA/MLB (perhaps the majority of the best soccer players are also linked to slavery idk)
I think you read the same study as I did :lol

I do wonder though if the real Africans are also not more athletic than the rest of the world. Has there been any study for this?

[riseagainst]

blacks are genetically superior physically. I think we can all agree on this.

[Dresta]

blacks are genetically superior physically. I think we can all agree on this.
Then why they get diabetes so much?

[oarabbus]

blacks are genetically superior physically. I think we can all agree on this.

You have to look at the entire population of black people vs the entire population of whites, vs entire asian ethnic groups etc.

It does appear that the majority of sports are dominated by black athletes at the highest level. Although, this too could be due to environmental factors as well.

That doesn't mean that black people as a whole are superior geneticially. IIRC Nordic white people are the tallest people in the world and also are quite healthy and long-lived.

[riseagainst]

sorry, I meant physically as in athleticism, sports related.

[Dresta]

Jews do tend to be genetically inferior physically, due to their tendency toward inter-breeding.

Genetic diversity is really important when it comes to producing offspring with good genes.

[sundizz]

Actually genetically mixed kids > all "thoroughbreds" statistically. The number of mixed kids that excel at sports is pretty high (compared to how many mixed kids there are).

[Dresta]

Actually genetically mixed kids > all "thoroughbreds" statistically. The number of mixed kids that excel at sports is pretty high (compared to how many mixed kids there are).
I just said that dude.

edit: also, people have a tendency to refer to all mixed race people as black for some reason.

[tomtucker]

Then why they get diabetes so much?

something about often getting certain types of cancer as well, right ?