08-09 Wade or 05-06 Kobe

[LoneyROY7]

Wade: 30.2 ppg, 7.5 apg, 5 rpg on 49.1 percent shooting. 30.4 PER and 57.4 TS percentage.

Kobe: 35.4 ppg, 4.5 apg, and 5.3 rpg on 45 percent shooting. 28 PER and 55.9 TS percentage.

Both led weak supporting casts to the playoffs. Who had the better season/who was the better player?

[longhornfan1234]

09 Wade. I give Wade a slight edge because of his defense that year.

[T_L_P]

Wade. Better defensively and the 3 extra assists makes up for the gap in scoring.

[Papaya Petee]

This threads been made 5000000 times. It's always 50-50. Both were great.

[ArbitraryWater]

not again....


we just FKN had this thread :facepalm

[Mr Feeny]

not again....


we just FKN had this thread :facepalm

Ur seriously making the claim thay Cristiano Ronaldo is the goat? :facepalm

[Quickening]

Pretty obviously Wade... offensively they're close, Wade slight edge to to efficiency and 3 extra assists. But the gulf defensively between them was huge in Wades favour.

[STATUTORY]

kobe and it really ain't even that close

[Mr Feeny]

Wadeand it really ain't even that close

:applause:

[Milbuck]

kobe and it really ain't even that close
:facepalm I'd go with Kobe too but it's about as close as you can possibly get.

[Solefade]

kobe and it really ain't even that close


kobetard alert

[STATUTORY]

:applause:

55 points for Wade

and 81 for Kobe

Wade's best game that season doesnt even match top 5 of Kobe's from that season

Kobe had a historic season that will be revered for centuries, Wade dominated Excel sheets

[ArbitraryWater]

Ur seriously making the claim thay Cristiano Ronaldo is the goat? :facepalm

He is bro.

Hate him or Love him, he's the mothafkn goat.

[Milbuck]

He is bro.

Hate him or Love him, he's the mothafkn goat.
:whatever:

[ArbitraryWater]

:whatever:


Imagine if the Bucks didn't foolishly trade Dirk for Tractor Traylor.
PG: Cassell
SG: Ray
SF: Big Dog
PF: Dirk
C: Ervin Johnson
Might have taken out the Lakers in 2001. League knew the Laker$ would clobber that garbage Sixers' team. controlled opposition. Bill Simmons pointed out the incredibly rigged ECF :applause:

[longhornfan1234]

kobe and it really ain't even that close
You have to be trolling. It is very close.

[Milbuck]

Imagine if the Bucks didn't foolishly trade Dirk for Tractor Traylor.
PG: Cassell
SG: Ray
SF: Big Dog
PF: Dirk
C: Ervin Johnson
Might have taken out the Lakers in 2001.
http://static.tumblr.com/omq8zsh/qcKlxtg6q/randy_marsh_ectoplasm.jpg

[Black and White]

This is really close, it can be debated for ages, I give an edge to Kobe though, he went on a crazy scoring tear.

[Cold soul]

Kobe for me, but it's close.

[Xiengqichess]

How about Kobe 02-03.
30 points, 7 rb, 6 assts, 2.2 steals, played the best defense for guard.
Let's compare this to Wade.

[STATUTORY]

How about Kobe 02-03.
30 points, 7 rb, 6 assts, 2.2 steals, played the best defense for guard.
Let's compare this to Wade.
in the most offensively depressed era of modern NBA history

:applause: :applause:

[Mr Feeny]

He is bro.

Hate him or Love him, he's the mothafkn goat.

A certain younger Argentine with four balon d'ors says hi:

Most balon d'ors in history (All 4 consecutive)
Most goals in UCL elimination stages
In a years time, highest scorer in UCL history
In a few months time, highest scorer in Liga history
Single season world record for most goals 91
Single season record for most domestic assists (29, tie with Xavi)
Most seasons leading UCL in scoring
6 Liga titles and 3 UCL's at the age of 26.


Compared to 29 year old cristiano with 4 league titles and 1 UCl and half the player of the year awards.
:biggums:

Messi, Maradona, Pele, Cruyff, LRonaldo, Zidane, Ronaldinho, Best are all miles ahead of him. But lets forget about those. His contemporary nemesis Messi all but ends any claim to Goat.

[JohnFreeman]

One is a top 5 Shooting guard and the other is Kobe Bryant

[Mr Feeny]

One is a top 5 Shooting guard and the other is Kobe Bryant

I think both are top five sg all time but I agree Wade is considerably better.

[Papaya Petee]

A certain younger Argentine with four balon d'ors says hi:

Most balon d'ors in history (All 4 consecutive)
Most goals in UCL elimination stages
In a years time, highest scorer in UCL history
In a few months time, highest scorer in Liga history
Single season world record for most goals 91
Single season record for most domestic assists (29, tie with Xavi)
Most seasons leading UCL in scoring
6 Liga titles and 3 UCL's at the age of 26.


Compared to 29 year old cristiano with 4 league titles and 1 UCl and half the player of the year awards.
:biggums:

Messi, Maradona, Pele, Cruyff, LRonaldo, Zidane, Ronaldinho, Best are all miles ahead of him. But lets forget about those. His contemporary nemesis Messi all but ends any claim to Goat.
:applause: :applause: Best post all day. Tired of clowns claiming Ronaldo being better than Messi just because this one season he has been.

[ArbitraryWater]

A certain younger Argentine with four balon d'ors says hi:

Most balon d'ors in history (All 4 consecutive)
Most goals in UCL elimination stages
In a years time, highest scorer in UCL history
In a few months time, highest scorer in Liga history
Single season world record for most goals 91
Single season record for most domestic assists (29, tie with Xavi)
Most seasons leading UCL in scoring
6 Liga titles and 3 UCL's at the age of 26.


Compared to 29 year old cristiano with 4 league titles and 1 UCl and half the player of the year awards.
:biggums:

Messi, Maradona, Pele, Cruyff, LRonaldo, Zidane, Ronaldinho, Best are all miles ahead of him. But lets forget about those. His contemporary nemesis Messi all but ends any claim to Goat.

Dude, did you just name Ronaldinho? This kind of proves you know nothing about Football... there are literally 25+ players greater than him, you only list the big market names....

btw to papaya pete, Ronaldo has outplayed him in 2007, 2008, 2012, 2013 and now 2014... yay Messi got a 3 year span in between.. :wtf:

And btw, how can you list Messi for 6 league titles? ROFL. Same as 3 CL's. Its 4 league titles&2 CL's. I dont care how many titles he won as an irrelevant younglin' off the bench with virtually no impact yet.. (05&06 league+06 CL..) dude didnt even play in any of the champions league KO stages in 06.. had nothing to do with it.

2009? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NziyufSACKk (Most rigged game in Football History)

2011? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHZJPrYfjEk

This is ISH though, we can discuss this shit somewhere else and Id be glad to put a SMACK, DOWN on your asses..

[Fazotronic]

A certain younger Argentine with four balon d'ors says hi:

Most balon d'ors in history (All 4 consecutive)
Most goals in UCL elimination stages
In a years time, highest scorer in UCL history
In a few months time, highest scorer in Liga history
Single season world record for most goals 91
Single season record for most domestic assists (29, tie with Xavi)
Most seasons leading UCL in scoring
6 Liga titles and 3 UCL's at the age of 26.


Compared to 29 year old cristiano with 4 league titles and 1 UCl and half the player of the year awards.
:biggums:

Messi, Maradona, Pele, Cruyff, LRonaldo, Zidane, Ronaldinho, Best are all miles ahead of him. But lets forget about those. His contemporary nemesis Messi all but ends any claim to Goat.

lolol. ive been watching football for over 20 years. suming up careers with achievements in football is much, much worse doing it than in the NBA.
ballon d'ors is worth less the the mvp. ther is no system in it. all the coaches vote their favorite players in no matter how old or bad they got.
the criteria changes all the time. then you have all the diffrent leagues all the diffrent cups. even the europa league cup is nothing like it was 10 years ago.
european club football was nothing like this 20 years ago. ppl have not been talking about it the way we do today.
while i agree that messi is the better player and probably will be higher than everybody else at the end of his career.
from a football skill point of view ther is absolute no doubt that CR7 has been playing at least on the same level as Ronaldo, Zidane or any other alltime great.

americans are obsessed with this all time ranking bullcrap.
thats all ppl do when they watch basketball.
you can not do this in football being lazy and counting the awards with so many leagues.

you can also not say that all of those players are way ahead of him.
that doesn't make any sense.
if you actually watched ronaldo you would knew the rough times were he wasn't fit getting booed by his own fans in brazil and in real. ronaldinho was the biggest genius on the pitch and then all of the sudden becomes irrelevant faster than you know he was also not better than brazil ronaldo was in his best years.

cruyff is miles ahead of CR7? again nothing you can say to justify this.
not like you ever watched him but also from a achievment point of view.

on club level ther is nothing Cristiano hasn't won already.
the only thing missing for him AND messi is the world cup.

most of the praises for pele come from the world cup alone.
hell eusebio was just as good as pele yet he gets overlooked beacause he hasn't won any world cups like pele has.
as if he had any were the same roster as pele. just look at brasil ronaldo. you have to be shitty me no knowing
how loaded those teams were 2002. before the games even started everybody already knew it was all about the brasil show.
now how is messi who is better than him or even CR7 going to win the world cup?

fact remains. CR7 and messi would have won the ballon dor every year if they played in diffrent eras.
this two guys are making big time history and you're going to but ronaldinho over him?
thats like putting tracy mcrady over kobe beacause of that couple years he played great.

@ArbitraryWater ish never disappoints.

[NumberSix]

D-Wade. It's ain't close.

[SavageMode]

Looks like the general consensus is D-wade.

I'd say D-wade, and it ain't even close.

Shut it down.

/thread
/next.

[moe94]

LMFAO @ anyone who thinks Messi vs Ronaldo is even a debate

[Fazotronic]

LMFAO @ anyone who thinks Messi vs Ronaldo is even a debate

lol @ you thinking its not close.

[ArbitraryWater]

LMFAO @ anyone who thinks Messi vs Ronaldo is even a debate

This. Its Ronaldo easily. Former Barcelona Doc just said Messi suffers from depression. Ronaldo still going strong, while Messi isnt even Top 2 on his own team right now..

and like Fazotronic just explained, cant break down football with awards/achievements. its an 11 VS 11 GAME!

[Fazotronic]

This. Its Ronaldo easily. Former Barcelona Doc just said Messi suffers from depression. Ronaldo still going strong, while Messi isnt even Top 2 on his own team right now..

and like Fazotronic just explained, cant break down football with awards/achievements. its an 11 VS 11 GAME!

yea messi has been having personal issues since the last couple month.
i would never think he would leave barcelona but that might even happen sooner than i think.
as i football fan i wish him the best and i do consider him to be the better player most of the time but yea noone can doubt what cr7 has been doing and still is.
the dude just keeps working and working and with his fitness he might play much longer on this level than any other would be able to.

[Jacks3]

kobe and it ain't even close. the thing you have to remember is that kobe actually got off to a slow start that season because of the severely sprained finger he suffered in the 3rd game vs hawks.

first 20 games: 31/5/5/1/50% TS.


next 60 games: 37 PPG/6 RPG/5 APG/2.1 SPG/58% TS/116 ORTG including 24 40+ point games and 8 50+ point games.

d-whistle has never had a stretch like that. :biggums:

[Mr Feeny]

Dude, did you just name Ronaldinho? This kind of proves you know nothing about Football... there are literally 25+ players greater than him, you only list the big market names....

btw to papaya pete, Ronaldo has outplayed him in 2007, 2008, 2012, 2013 and now 2014... yay Messi got a 3 year span in between.. :wtf:

And btw, how can you list Messi for 6 league titles? ROFL. Same as 3 CL's. Its 4 league titles&2 CL's. I dont care how many titles he won as an irrelevant younglin' off the bench with virtually no impact yet.. (05&06 league+06 CL..) dude didnt even play in any of the champions league KO stages in 06.. had nothing to do with it.

2009? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NziyufSACKk (Most rigged game in Football History)

2011? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHZJPrYfjEk

This is ISH though, we can discuss this shit somewhere else and Id be glad to put a SMACK, DOWN on your asses..

Take it to the offcourt but you must be drunk if you think Ronaldo with 60goals in 55 games and 11 assists in 2012 outplayed Messi who had 73 goals and 29 assists. Not trollling. Just plain DRUNK.
Ditto 2013 season: Messi 60 goals in 50 games and Ronaldo 55 goals in 55 games on 127 more shots. Again, you must be drunk.
25 players better than Ronaldinho (a 2 time world player of the year? You're having a laugh?

You talking about Messi being a peripheral figure in UCL finals? He pulverized Ronaldo and nearly single handily beat Ronaldo's United in that 2009 final scoring a memorable clinching goal while Ronaldo (by redcafe's general consensus was the worst player on the pitch)

2011 UCL semis they meet again and Messi scores 2 in Ronaldo's backyard to finish off the tie in the first leg while again Ronaldo was voted the wost performer by Marca readers and after the match blamed Mourinho's tactics instead of his sub par play. He was benched right away for the next league game. Of course upon his return in liga, the Madrid fans (his HOME) fans booed him.
Imagine lakr fans booing Kobe? Bulls fans booing MJ! Wouos nver happen.
Go to sleep kid.

[moe94]

lol @ you thinking its not close.

Their accolades are worlds apart.

Their production during their best years isn't even comparable.

By all means, present your damn case.

[Mr Feeny]

This. Its Ronaldo easily. Former Barcelona Doc just said Messi suffers from depression. Ronaldo still going strong, while Messi isnt even Top 2 on his own team right now..

and like Fazotronic just explained, cant break down football with awards/achievements. its an 11 VS 11 GAME!

Then dont mention Lebrons mvp and finals mvp awards when making a case for him
ahead of Kobe. Bball is a team game and Kobe has 5 titles to Lebrons 2.
Go to sleep kid. You have no idea what kind of mess you're getting into. Cristiano is Messis bitch. Simple as that. Anyone who isnt a Madrid fan admits as much.

Incidentally, Ronaldo s own teammates Sergio Ramos and Casillas both called Messi the greatest ever in that same 2012 season that u deludely think Ronaldobwas better than Messi in.

Marcelo, another Ronaldo teammate said Messi is the best in the world after Messis hattrick beat Brazil in that epic 2012 preseason friendly and Ronaldo fougt with him like a child for saying that!

[Mr Feeny]

Their accolades are worlds apart.

Their production during their best years isn't even comparable.

By all means, present your damn case.

This. Messi has double the world player of the year awards and is only 26. 3 times the UCL's and more league titles. Individuallu, or team wise, he is miles ahead.

Statistically, they aren't even in the same breath. Ronado is currently being outscord by L Suarez (!) in domestic football wile playing in a better team in a weaker league. In no objective metric does Ronaldo even sniff Messi. His own teammats don't think its a contest and have routinely said Messi is the greater player. Enough said.

[pegasus]

Kobe, and he played in the much tougher conference.

[Mr Feeny]

Kobe, and he played in the much tougher conference.

Kobe has 5 titles. Id individual trophies don't matter, because its about winning as arbtrary says in the footbal discussion, then Kobe is definitely greater than Lebron who only has 2 titles.

[Solefade]

Kobe, and he played in the much tougher conference.


the East in 08-09 is pretty comparable to the West in 05-06

you got the C's, Dwight's magic, Bron's Cavs, Hawks were decent

[Mr Feeny]

the East in 08-09 is pretty comparable to the West in 05-06

you got the C's, Dwight's magic, Bron's Cavs, Hawks were decent

Doesn't matter. Accodrding to Lebron ******gwr arbitrary water who has never watched football and thinks Ronaldo is a top ten player all time (goat, in fact) individual performance and accolades don't matter. Its about wins.

Kobe has 5. Lebron has 2. According to his own logic, Kobe 》 Lebron.

[Fazotronic]

Their accolades are worlds apart.

Their production during their best years isn't even comparable.

By all means, present your damn case.

again complete ignorance over the accolades.
what production? scoring more goals? yea sure you know your football.
you might as well say that cr7 is better than ronaldo and zidane since he has been more efficient and scored more goals than they ever did. you might aswell also just call them all strikers.

gues like roberto baggio and ruud gullit are probably compolete stranges and nobodys to you considering the accolades.

@Mr Feeny
nice job ignoring my post. just reading the way you are trying to measure this guys is a joke.
quoting players is about the worst thing you can do in football. guys like pique and puyol have also already said that CR7 was better before 2010 and sometimes in between and later in 2013 you had most players saying he is the best.
del bosques says every year that xavi is the best player on the planet.
allegri calles pablo inzaghi the best player of all time.
and even when messi won all of his 4 ballon dor's which he deserved it was way closer than what you are trying to make it look like.

you and moe are just counting goals and dare to talk about production?
you talk about CL trophies? are you serious? barcelone was considert to be the best team for a long time. they were the favorites and always had the best record even when messi was out for 2 month they won every game just like nothing changed.
do you have the slightest idea how many players will just get completlely ignored if you take that as the sole indicator for greatness?
wasn't it you that mention cruyff. so he's probably also MILES AWAY from messi huh? to you know anything about that guy other than the success he hat in the world cup that you had to google?

quoting players and counting CL trophies you clearly have spent WAY to much time on this board.
just as bad as those idiots saying pele is the best beacause of his world cup domination.

i live in a football country and everybody hates CR7 for the stupid faces he makes after everything and the arrogance he displays but at least they now that how great he is and alot of them actually think he is better just beacause of hes overall game.
you know just by actually watching the games. ther is not stat for you to pick for you to see this.
whats so hard to understand? is goals all you see? how can you ignore him being the most complete player ever? does that mean zero to you beacause you can't type in any stats?

and yea you like quotes?

peter schmeichel - "Messi's skill levels are so high that he needs players around him who understand his play, how good he really is and what he can do. In the Barcelona team, everyone understands that,
but Ronaldo can lift any team no matter what. On his own, he is a force -- big, strong and technical. He can do everything. He has no limitations, he can head the ball and he can even defend if you want him to.
For me, he is the best player in the world!"

you see how your arguments fail? dude you can call messi the best as most of the time he really is.
other than that you should really stop talking about football. the whole way you approach and break this down is just wrong.
it might work for the nba but thats about it. something like a legit top 10 greatest football players does not exist. do you understand this?
nobody does that in the football world beacause its absolute impossible to rate them all. the only guys doing that are those little kids on the internet or others that just have started watching and feel the need to talk about it after lookng up couple stats online.


Take it to the offcourt but you must be drunk if you think Ronaldo with 60goals in 55 games and 11 assists in 2012 outplayed Messi who had 73 goals and 29 assists. Not trollling. Just plain DRUNK.
Ditto 2013 season: Messi 60 goals in 50 games and Ronaldo 55 goals in 55 games on 127 more shots. Again, you must be drunk.
25 players better than Ronaldinho (a 2 time world player of the year? You're having a laugh?

You talking about Messi being a peripheral figure in UCL finals? He pulverized Ronaldo and nearly single handily beat Ronaldo's United in that 2009 final scoring a memorable clinching goal while Ronaldo (by redcafe's general consensus was the worst player on the pitch)

2011 UCL semis they meet again and Messi scores 2 in Ronaldo's backyard to finish off the tie in the first leg while again Ronaldo was voted the wost performer by Marca readers and after the match blamed Mourinho's tactics instead of his sub par play. He was benched right away for the next league game. Of course upon his return in liga, the Madrid fans (his HOME) fans booed him.
Imagine lakr fans booing Kobe? Bulls fans booing MJ! Wouos nver happen.
Go to sleep kid.

again this is not how football fans talk. comparing stat lines one to one wtf?
they don't even play the same position. how many times have players won player of the year having way worse stats then their rivals?
have you looked that up?

also i would never say that 25 players were better than ronaldinho but to asnwer this with "a 2 time player of the year player?" that makes zero sense.
nobody says that! nobody uses this player of the year award in the real world except internet kiddies.
esp since it wasn't the same before where you had two of this awards.
everybody can easly explain as to why he was good without using this award.
only a clueless would use it.

also saying ronaldo isn't a top 10 player. go to any football country. ANY. go to italy, germany, spain, portugal, france, brasil, sweden or any other and search someone that has been watching football for over 40 years. longer than you live and ask him what are the top 10 players of all time.
you know what he will say? he will say only a idiot could think that he knows enough to rank the top 10 players in the world of football.
everybody that has watched for any time longer than 10 years will say that to you.
but hey who cares. if the internet kiddies do that than you can do that aswell.

its also funny how you completly ignore the fact that messi was out for 2 month and barcelone played exactly the same sitting on the top while real would be in the middle if it wasn't for ronaldo's clutch goals and legandary season.
but yea he won the game so he is better than him.

ups no no no. that would actually be some what okey. he is MILES BETTER than him.

:sleeping :sleeping

also the last part was just a fail.
the brasil ronaldo has also been booed. i already told you that if you would give a shit.
infact that has happen tons of times to many all time greats. zidane, kluivert, berkamp, rooney and the list goes on and on.
welcome to the football world noob.
wtf how can you not know that? did you really just started watching this year?