Allen Vs Pierce

[Boston C's]

Who has had the better career...A peak paul pierce is better then a peak ray allen but in terms of career who do you think is better...I find this to be a very comparable question considering how their careers have turned out...pierce has slightly better career stats with I believe 4 all nba teams (one second team) to allens 2 all nba teams (one second team) and in different parts of their careers at one point one has been better then the other (although for the most part pierce has been better then allen) but when you look at all their accolades and accomplishments does allens career beat out pierces or is pierces peak play too high for allen to overcome?

[NumberSix]

2 rings.

[moe94]

Ray Allen will be more remembered but Pierce was unarguably the better player.

[Keno]

Allen. Arguable Finals MVP in 2008 too.

[Black and White]

Paul Pierce is the better player, longer prime. Career wise, its a toss up, 2 rings are better than 1 though.

[Pushxx]

Definitely Pierce, especially considering half his career was thrown away by Pitino and Chris Wallace.

I still have bad dreams about it.

[Black and White]

Allen. Arguable Finals MVP in 2008 too.

:roll:

[Fire Colangelo]

Paul Pierce is the better player, longer prime. Career wise, its a toss up, 2 rings are better than 1 though.

Was Pierce even better than Allen in his FMVP year? Allen was still a beast after he came to boston dropping 50 point games in 09 playoffs against the bulls. What playoff success did pierce have before KG and Allen came to boston? Ray led both bucks and sonics to decent playoff runs in his prime and became an important part of a championship team after his prime. Not to mention he's the best 3 pt shooter in the history of the NBA.

What did prime pierce do better than prime ray? Ray is so underrated here.

They're pretty equal IMO, but is rather have pierce's career as a Celtics legend.

[Mass Debator]

Better career is too arguable as shown in that other thread. It can come down to points, rings, fame, money, assists, dunks, style, girls, etc lol

I'll take Pierce as a first option over Ray Allen any day of the week. As a second option however, it gets tricky. Allen is molded to be like the best second option ever.

[NumberSix]

:roll:
What's laughable about that? The Boston big 3 all had a case for FMVP in 2008. KG probably the strongest.

[Black and White]

What's laughable about that? The Boston big 3 all had a case for FMVP in 2008. KG probably the strongest.

KG had the best case overall, then Pierce, everybody knows Allen wasn't going to win it.

[Foster5k]

Give me the guy with ice in his veins.

[RoseCity07]

I read this as Alien vs Predator.

Anyway, Pierce.

[Foster5k]

I read this as Alien vs Predator.

Anyway, Pierce.
I read it as wheel chair vs Jesus.

[CelticBaller]

Pierce

[Boston C's]

KG had the best case overall, then Pierce, everybody knows Allen wasn't going to win it.

actually if were revisiting history here after 4 games all that was talked about was whether allen or pierce was going to take the fmvp home k.g being third...no doubt he was the best player on the team but in the finals it was really between allen and pierce

my 2 cents on this is that I'd rather have allens career over pierces and this is before his second ring as well... when you look at their accomplishments they are dead on similiar that its scary...both with 10 all star appearances both had the same playoff appearances as the lead dog with the farthest being the conference finals both never played with any decent big man until k.g hell both supporting casts they had were really similiar with pierces strongest cast to me was 05 and allens was 01 both over 20,000 career points soon to be 25,000 a piece barring sudden retirement/injury...the difference is pierces one finals mvp but then you have allen who has numerous records on his side which is big on a historical scale add in the 3 point king and I'd take allens career slightly but you can't go wrong with either one

[Rolando]

Pierce.

Because we got to see them play together on the same team. Allen was always the 3rd guy....sometimes the 4th if you consider Rondo. Allen had the luxury of being a specialist while Pierce, Garnett, and Rondo had to address multiple aspects.

Ray is less. Very much so.

[cltcfn2924]

Was Pierce even better than Allen in his FMVP year? Allen was still a beast after he came to boston dropping 50 point games in 09 playoffs against the bulls. What playoff success did pierce have before KG and Allen came to boston? Ray led both bucks and sonics to decent playoff runs in his prime and became an important part of a championship team after his prime. Not to mention he's the best 3 pt shooter in the history of the NBA.

What did prime pierce do better than prime ray? Ray is so underrated here.

They're pretty equal IMO, but is rather have pierce's career as a Celtics legend.

PP led a team of nobody's to the ECF.

[Fire Colangelo]

PP led a team of nobody's to the ECF.

So did Ray.

[Boston C's]

Pierce.

Because we got to see them play together on the same team. Allen was always the 3rd guy....sometimes the 4th if you consider Rondo. Allen had the luxury of being a specialist while Pierce, Garnett, and Rondo had to address multiple aspects.

Ray is less. Very much so.

rondo became the celtics best player when rays best days were clearly behind him...I guess you forgot how many times that ray has bailed out the celtics while he was there whether it was with big shots or big games

[ballup]

Give me the guy with ice in his veins.
That doesn't help. Both were clutch.

[houston]

Pierce of course..........allen very overrated

[bizil]

GOAT wise, both rank damn near around the same area for their respective positions. I think Ray is around 8 to 10 for the GOAT SG's. I think Truth is around 8 to 10 for GOAT SF's. In terms of who was better, I will lean to PP. Both were alpha dogs, but PP's size and skill made him more versatile. He had 2 inches and like 30-40 pounds on Ray. For these two it comes down to that. Both were clutch, both were very good all around players, but Pierce for a lot of his career was a great all around player.

[JGXEN]

Give me the guy with ice in his veins.
Both are equally as clutch, so I don't know which one you are talking about

[L.Kizzle]

Jesus is the Truth ...

[DMV2]

KG had the best case overall, then Pierce, everybody knows Allen wasn't going to win it.
Allen 20.3 on .507 (.524 from 3's), 5 REB, 2.5 AST, 1.3 STL, 0.7 BLK, 11 turnovers
Pierce 21.8 on .432 (.393 from 3's), 4.5 REB, 6.3 AST, 1.2 STL, 0.3 BLK, 22 turnovers

PP basically had 9 more points by taking 15 more shots. He also had 44 FTM out of 53 FTA, while Allen went 26 for 30.

:rolleyes: yeah, not even close.

[KayHaven]

Very comparable players..

I personally think Rays Prime was better than PPs.

However I think those latter years of the Big 3 showed how much more impressive PP overall game aged compared to Ray...who even though is a couple years older then paul seemed to lose several aspects of his game (ability to defend..ability to dribble)

For the person who disagrees about Ray being FMVP worthy....ur wrong..I thought Ray was alittle more worthy but figured Paul would get it due to being the life long Celtic.

Rays prime was scary...cause he had all the tools. But Paul's end years have aged better than Ray...and these last 5 years would help give the edge to paul.

And im probably Rays #1 fan

[Boston C's]

I don't think the doubt is in who was the better player but rather who had the more impressive career

Career wise Ray
Peak/prime Pierce

[CelticBaller]

Jesus is the Truth ...
you hate pierce so your opinion doesn't matter

Move on, spudjay died

[L.Kizzle]

you hate pierce so your opinion doesn't matter

Move on, spudjay died
I don't hate P-Dub.

[Reggie43]

Does winning an extra championship in a derek fisher/robert horry type role make Ray Allen's career better than Paul Pierce? We all know Pierce could have done the same placed in the exact situation.

[Boston C's]

Does winning an extra championship in a derek fisher/robert horry type role make Ray Allen's career better than Paul Pierce? We all know Pierce could have done the same placed in the exact situation.

no but I thought rays career was better then pierces before the second title

[ballup]

If you look at their career scoring, they had similar total numbers with 8 20+ ppg seasons each (if you count Pierce's half season in 06-07). How they scored and how their skill on those ways to score, on the other hand, were different. As expected, Pierce scored more through FTs and Ray took more 3s as a match.

[Boston C's]

If you look at their career scoring, they had similar total numbers with 8 20+ ppg seasons each (if you count Pierce's half season in 06-07). How they scored and how their skill on those ways to score, on the other hand, were different. As expected, Pierce scored more through FTs and Ray took more 3s as a match.

judging them based off careers its basically a toss up

[iamgine]

Toss up

[JohnFreeman]

Hard question. I would take Pierce on a bad team, and Allen on a contender

[nashwade]

2 rings (and possibly counting)
Best 3 point shooter in the HISTORY of the game

No one will remember PP

I don't think there is a contest

[FPJ]

2 rings (and possibly counting)
Best 3 point shooter in the HISTORY of the game

No one will remember PP

I don't think there is a contest

Hollywood moviestar...

[gin17]

pierce

[bizil]

I think what made Ray unique among those great shooter scorers on the perimeter (like Bird, Rice, Miller, Hornacek, Ellis, Peja, Nash, Price, etc) was his combo of handles and athletic ability to go with the shooting. Ray could penetrate and go over the top and dunk on your ass. Unlike the other guys I named. Ray in a sense changed the game in terms of what a pure shooter could do scoring the rock. It took a guy like Durant at 6'10 to take what Ray did in those terms and take it to the next level. Pure shooters (not very good shooters) who also had great handles and athletic ability to finish hard at the rim. Ray also played plenty of PG in his Milwaukee and Seattle days too. The main difference between Ray and PP for me was the size and versatility PP brought to the table. In terms of actual fundamentals of scoring and numbers, both are some of the more technically sound players ever at their positions.

[Supersonics33]

PP led a team of nobody's to the ECF.

It was the ECSF where they lost to the Nets. I really thought he was gonna take them to the ECF that year after that comeback.

[BlackWhiteGreen]

It was the ECSF where they lost to the Nets. I really thought he was gonna take them to the ECF that year after that comeback.

..No it wasn't

[Black and White]

2 rings (and possibly counting)
Best 3 point shooter in the HISTORY of the game

No one will remember PP

I don't think there is a contest

This has to be one of the most insane posts I have read in awhile

[Supersonics33]

..No it wasn't

Damn, you're right. Looks like my memory isn't what it used to be :lol

[finchyyy]

Pierce every day and twice on Sunday.

[finchyyy]

I think what made Ray unique among those great shooter scorers on the perimeter (like Bird, Rice, Miller, Hornacek, Ellis, Peja, Nash, Price, etc) was his combo of handles and athletic ability to go with the shooting. Ray could penetrate and go over the top and dunk on your ass. Unlike the other guys I named. Ray in a sense changed the game in terms of what a pure shooter could do scoring the rock. It took a guy like Durant at 6'10 to take what Ray did in those terms and take it to the next level. Pure shooters (not very good shooters) who also had great handles and athletic ability to finish hard at the rim. Ray also played plenty of PG in his Milwaukee and Seattle days too. The main difference between Ray and PP for me was the size and versatility PP brought to the table. In terms of actual fundamentals of scoring and numbers, both are some of the more technically sound players ever at their positions.

Um, Bird was a PF/SF, and he could score pretty much anyway he wanted too. He didn't have great handles because he never really handled the ball much, he passed and shot out of the post a lot more than the other guys you've mentioned.

[Audio One]

Allen 20.3 on .507 (.524 from 3's), 5 REB, 2.5 AST, 1.3 STL, 0.7 BLK, 11 turnovers
Pierce 21.8 on .432 (.393 from 3's), 4.5 REB, 6.3 AST, 1.2 STL, 0.3 BLK, 22 turnovers

PP basically had 9 more points by taking 15 more shots. He also had 44 FTM out of 53 FTA, while Allen went 26 for 30.

:rolleyes: yeah, not even close.

:kobe:

Nailing those ******* shots when the game was out of reach, padding his stats, PLEASE. Boston won with that zone, and Garnett was the anchor and main reason for that, along with Piru P being the first option offensively, Allen basked in a situation they created.

But everybody knows Piru P only won it 'cause he was the longest tenured Celtic, and was an attention diva. People don't realize how much Garnett acquiesed to Pierce's ego, starting with Pierce havin' to be introduced last during games. He had to pull that fake Willis Reed stunt just to get it :facepalm

Anyways, I think the clear answer here's Pierce. He's the better scorer, defender, rebounder, has more assists at a higher average, made the same amount of playoffs and AS games in less time, more All-NBA selections, higher ppg and total points, higher in the MVP voting, and was more clutch. He carried a team on his own farther than Allen ever did.

And as far being more remembered, one guy's The Truth (not some fictional, lame ass movie character name), and will eventually have his jersey retired by a team, will Allen even have his jersey retired period? :lol

[unknowns8]

Pierce ... fairly simple call really

[bizil]

Um, Bird was a PF/SF, and he could score pretty much anyway he wanted too. He didn't have great handles because he never really handled the ball much, he passed and shot out of the post a lot more than the other guys you've mentioned.

What exactly is your point!! Um, I know Bird was a PF-SF. But what position will Bird go down historically as? SMALL FORWARD!! And Bird was clearly a better player than Ray! But u still have to give Ray props for the offensive package he brought to the game. That can't be debated! So YES in terms of great shooters who played on the perimeter (PG, SG, SF), Ray brought new things to the table. And THAT includes Larry Bird! I was giving Ray props and NOT DISSING THE OTHER SHOOTERS I NAMED.

[dabigbaws]

the truth

[Boston C's]

:kobe:

Nailing those ******* shots when the game was out of reach, padding his stats, PLEASE. Boston won with that zone, and Garnett was the anchor and main reason for that, along with Piru P being the first option offensively, Allen basked in a situation they created.

But everybody knows Piru P only won it 'cause he was the longest tenured Celtic, and was an attention diva. People don't realize how much Garnett acquiesed to Pierce's ego, starting with Pierce havin' to be introduced last during games. He had to pull that fake Willis Reed stunt just to get it :facepalm

Anyways, I think the clear answer here's Pierce. He's the better scorer, defender, rebounder, has more assists at a higher average, made the same amount of playoffs and AS games in less time, more All-NBA selections, higher ppg and total points, higher in the MVP voting, and was more clutch. He carried a team on his own farther than Allen ever did.

And as far being more remembered, one guy's The Truth (not some fictional, lame ass movie character name), and will eventually have his jersey retired by a team, will Allen even have his jersey retired period? :lol

So many lies in your statement...first off it was extremely close between allen and pierce in the finals mvp voting if you don't feel that way go refresh your memory by revisiting history in the archives...pierce only separated himself after the monster game 5 where allen had like a quiet 15 points I believe because after 4 games it was really allens award to lose the only thing I agree with you is that garnett catered to pierces ego which is true but at the same time allen and pierce were traded to pierces team...if the roles were reversed it would have been different

as for the bolded parts are you kidding me...allen took his team the same distance as pierce did and went to a game 7 with iverson in the conference finals and they lost...the game could have ended differently if allen was healthy throughout the whole game instead of getting hurt and by the time he comes back in the game the sixers ran away with it...as far as being remembered yea absolutely pierce will be remembered but your joking if you think allen won't...being the all time leader in three pointers made in the entire HISTORY of the NBA will definitely keep you remembered for a long time to come

like I stated its a toss up in terms of career (which was the question) A few ppl I think misinterpreted in believing it was which person you would have in their prime which is pierce (not by a lot) but in terms of career I say its ray but the argument is there for pierce and it shows with this thread being evenly split for those saying its not even close for either allen or pierce though are absolutely wrong its close but again I slightly favor allens career more

and in terms of clutchness I strongly disagree the truth was clutch but allen was definitely more clutch to me...even in boston allen was the go to guy in terms of hitting game winning/game tying shots...to be honest as much as I love pierce I really don't remember the last time he hit a game winning/game tying shot whereas for Allen so many come to mind in recent years

[Fire Colangelo]

So many lies in your statement...first off it was extremely close between allen and pierce in the finals mvp voting if you don't feel that way go refresh your memory by revisiting history in the archives...pierce only separated himself after the monster game 5 where allen had like a quiet 15 points I believe because after 4 games it was really allens award to lose the only thing I agree with you is that garnett catered to pierces ego which is true but at the same time allen and pierce were traded to pierces team...if the roles were reversed it would have been different

as for the bolded parts are you kidding me...allen took his team the same distance as pierce did and went to a game 7 with iverson in the conference finals and they lost...the game could have ended differently if allen was healthy throughout the whole game instead of getting hurt and by the time he comes back in the game the sixers ran away with it...as far as being remembered yea absolutely pierce will be remembered but your joking if you think allen won't...being the all time leader in three pointers made in the entire HISTORY of the NBA will definitely keep you remembered for a long time to come

like I stated its a toss up in terms of career (which was the question) A few ppl I think misinterpreted in believing it was which person you would have in their prime which is pierce (not by a lot) but in terms of career I say its ray but the argument is there for pierce and it shows with this thread being evenly split for those saying its not even close for either allen or pierce though are absolutely wrong its close but again I slightly favor allens career more

and in terms of clutchness I strongly disagree the truth was clutch but allen was definitely more clutch to me...even in boston allen was the go to guy in terms of hitting game winning/game tying shots...to be honest as much as I love pierce I really don't remember the last time he hit a game winning/game tying shot whereas for Allen so many come to mind in recent years


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_uulujs-MM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Tq3YH1x_Ew

^ Annnnd theres a lot more than that. Pierce is every bit as clutch as Allen in the sense that he creates and makes his own shots in clutch situations while Allen is more of a jumpshooter (a very clutch one nonetheless).

[juju151111]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_uulujs-MM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Tq3YH1x_Ew

^ Annnnd theres a lot more than that. Pierce is every bit as clutch as Allen in the sense that he creates and makes his own shots in clutch situations while Allen is more of a jumpshooter (a very clutch one nonetheless).
Allen can create plenty of shots in the clutch himself. He did it plenty of times in his career.

[Boston C's]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_uulujs-MM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Tq3YH1x_Ew

^ Annnnd theres a lot more than that. Pierce is every bit as clutch as Allen in the sense that he creates and makes his own shots in clutch situations while Allen is more of a jumpshooter (a very clutch one nonetheless).

not denying pierce isn't clutch I guess I just misinterpreted you saying pierce being clutch as meaning that he is much more clutch then allen so thats what I was going with...Allen definitely is more of a jumpshooter but back in seattle and the bucks he was able to create off the dribble in clutch situations...sure he was not nearly as good as pierce at doing it but he was still very capable

the only thing with pierce is that I feel like its been forever...that miami game was from 2010 and as clutch as the one he hit against the heat in the playoffs 2 yrs ago was (I was going crazy lol) the C's were up one...I remember in the mid 2000's dude was making game winners left and right but now these last few yrs I see him miss more often then not...it doesn't seem like he has much lift anymore on his jumper

[Boston C's]

I watched that one over lebron like 5 times over just now haha "he can't hold meeeeeeeeeeeeee"

[Audio One]

So many lies in your statement...first off it was extremely close between allen and pierce in the finals mvp voting if you don't feel that way go refresh your memory by revisiting history in the archives...pierce only separated himself after the monster game 5 where allen had like a quiet 15 points I believe because after 4 games it was really allens award to lose the only thing I agree with you is that garnett catered to pierces ego which is true but at the same time allen and pierce were traded to pierces team...if the roles were reversed it would have been different

as for the bolded parts are you kidding me...allen took his team the same distance as pierce did and went to a game 7 with iverson in the conference finals and they lost...the game could have ended differently if allen was healthy throughout the whole game instead of getting hurt and by the time he comes back in the game the sixers ran away with it...as far as being remembered yea absolutely pierce will be remembered but your joking if you think allen won't...being the all time leader in three pointers made in the entire HISTORY of the NBA will definitely keep you remembered for a long time to come

like I stated its a toss up in terms of career (which was the question) A few ppl I think misinterpreted in believing it was which person you would have in their prime which is pierce (not by a lot) but in terms of career I say its ray but the argument is there for pierce and it shows with this thread being evenly split for those saying its not even close for either allen or pierce though are absolutely wrong its close but again I slightly favor allens career more

and in terms of clutchness I strongly disagree the truth was clutch but allen was definitely more clutch to me...even in boston allen was the go to guy in terms of hitting game winning/game tying shots...to be honest as much as I love pierce I really don't remember the last time he hit a game winning/game tying shot whereas for Allen so many come to mind in recent years

Go look at each of their roster, and tell me Allen didn't have more help. Sam I Am, Big Dog, Tim Thomas on the outside, I mean Redd and Rafer hardly got any playing time. All Pierce had was that fat chucker "No Fours" Walker. So in that context, yes, he did more with less.

And again, Allen's only argument comes from the stat sheet; he was padding his stats in game 6 when Boston had the game in their hand. Without Garnett and Perkins closing off the lanes, and Pierce actually guarding Bean in crunch time, and creating shots in the clutch, I mean, I really don't see how Allen was more deserving than these two

[Boston C's]

Go look at each of their roster, and tell me Allen didn't have more help. Sam I Am, Big Dog, Tim Thomas on the outside, I mean Redd and Rafer hardly got any playing time. All Pierce had was that fat chucker "No Fours" Walker. So in that context, yes, he did more with less.

There is no context the statement was that pierce carried a team farther then allen ever did which is false...fact is that pierce had a 2-1 series lead and lost it 4-2 (not saying he choked) but allen the yr prior went the same distance (conference finals) and the series went the distance (7 games) and if you want to talk about help take a look at the sonics roster ray had in 05...after rashard "I can't rebound for shit and I'm practically 7 ft tall" lewis the next best player was either a second yr p.g luke ridnour or vladimir radmonovic which is absolutely shit...and for as much shit walker gets for chucking I'll take him over rashard any day of the week because he can actually rebound and distribute the ball whereas rashard is really only capable of scoring and even in his seattle days it was inconsistent

that sonics team in 05 was not only projected to finish the bottom of the division but most went to believe they would be the bottom of the conference but they somehow got 52 wins and pushed the spurs to 6 games with an injury depleted roster

[Audio One]

There is no context the statement was that pierce carried a team farther then allen ever did which is false...fact is that pierce had a 2-1 series lead and lost it 4-2 (not saying he choked) but allen the yr prior went the same distance (conference finals) and the series went the distance (7 games) and if you want to talk about help take a look at the sonics roster ray had in 05...after rashard "I can't rebound for shit and I'm practically 7 ft tall" lewis the next best player was either a second yr p.g luke ridnour or vladimir radmonovic which is absolutely shit...and for as much shit walker gets for chucking I'll take him over rashard any day of the week because he can actually rebound and distribute the ball whereas rashard is really only capable of scoring and even in his seattle days it was inconsistent

that sonics team in 05 was not only projected to finish the bottom of the division but most went to believe they would be the bottom of the conference but they somehow got 52 wins and pushed the spurs to 6 games with an injury depleted roster

20 points and 5 boards for 3 straight years on 4 about 45/39/83's inconsistent?

And I'll admit, I made a mistake with the omission of Ray's run in '01, but othern than that, I'm still not seeing the case for Allen here. All he's apparently got is that record of his :confusedshrug:

[Boston C's]

20 points and 5 boards for 3 straight years on 4 about 45/39/83's inconsistent?

And I'll admit, I made a mistake with the omission of Ray's run in '01, but othern than that, I'm still not seeing the case for Allen here. All he's apparently got is that record of his :confusedshrug:

No biggie I mean my opinion is allen and yours is pierce I'm not gonna bash you for it lol its a perfectly logical choice I just feel Allens career panned out a bit better then pierces you obvious feel different...I only disagree with you saying there is no case to be made for allen I feel like if you look at what they accomplished in their careers a case can definitely be made for allen

[Audio One]

No biggie I mean my opinion is allen and yours is pierce I'm not gonna bash you for it lol its a perfectly logical choice I just feel Allens career panned out a bit better then pierces you obvious feel different...I only disagree with you saying there is no case to be made for allen I feel like if you look at what they accomplished in their careers a case can definitely be made for allen

If there was a case to be made, than I believe you would've already made it by now. I already made my case in my OP, and nothing you've said refutes those facts

[retaxis]

Everytime someone shoots a 3 they end up sooner or later mentioning Ray Allen...PP will be mentioned a little less then Tracy and a little more then Peja which is pretty much never.

[Boston C's]

If there was a case to be made, than I believe you would've already made it by now. I already made my case in my OP, and nothing you've said refutes those facts

I'm talking about careers and not in their prime...prime pierce is better then prime allen but mcgrady was better then both do you really think he had the better career? lets take a look at the facts...both 10 all star appearances both highest all nba team is 2nd team...

pierce NBA champion (2008)
NBA Finals MVP (2008)
10

[houston]

Man Ray Allen ain't better than Mitch Richmond how can he can be better than Pierce:roll:

3 of Ray all-star appearances is injury replacement.

[Boston C's]

Man Ray Allen ain't better than Mitch Richmond how can he can be better than Pierce:roll:

3 of Ray all-star appearances is injury replacement.

your delusional

and disrespecting the rock like that like hes some sort of scrub :no:

[Audio One]

[QUOTE=Boston C's]I'm talking about careers and not in their prime...prime pierce is better then prime allen but mcgrady was better then both do you really think he had the better career? lets take a look at the facts...both 10 all star appearances both highest all nba team is 2nd team...

pierce NBA champion (2008)
NBA Finals MVP (2008)
10

[Audio One]

Man Ray Allen ain't better than Mitch Richmond how can he can be better than Pierce:roll:

3 of Ray all-star appearances is injury replacement.

:applause:

[Boston C's]

What do these arbritrary records have do with how a player is better than another? Once again:

He's the better scorer, defender, rebounder, has more assists at a higher average, made the same amount of playoffs and AS games, more All-NBA selections, higher ppg and total points, rebounds, assists, higher in the MVP voting, his Finals MVP

All of this in less time. The only thing Allen has on him as some arbitrary record, and a benchwarmer ring

so what your saying is you basically have overlooked everything I posted and are just going back to your point because you have no retort? Records and statistics define a players career thats the question...CAREER so in terms of their careers they accomplished a lot of the same things... and if you want to go that route how many 50 win seasons has pierce led his team 0...they both have the same playoff appearances but pierce played his whole prime in the weak eastern conference while allen played in a much tougher western conference the fact that pierce doesn't have more appearances then allen as a leader isnt good...you look at the points rebounds and assists as if they are some significant deal greater then allen when in reality they aren't what seperates allen from pierce is that he actually can claim something that he is in fact the best at...he lays claim to being the greatest long distance shooter in nba history whereas pierce a great player is just pretty good at a bunch of parts of the game...allen was just as good a scorer and passer in his prime then pierce if not better but if you want to keep ignoring the facts then fine you asked me to show you a case for allen I did and you just ignore it so this argument is going nowhere since you won't acknowledge allens greatness

[Audio One]

so what your saying is you basically have overlooked everything I posted and are just going back to your point because you have no retort? Records and statistics define a players career thats the question...CAREER so in terms of their careers they accomplished a lot of the same things... and if you want to go that route how many 50 win seasons has pierce led his team 0...they both have the same playoff appearances but pierce played his whole prime in the weak eastern conference while allen played in a much tougher western conference the fact that pierce doesn't have more appearances then allen as a leader isnt good...you look at the points rebounds and assists as if they are some significant deal greater then allen when in reality they aren't what seperates allen from pierce is that he actually can claim something that he is in fact the best at...he lays claim to being the greatest long distance shooter in nba history whereas pierce a great player is just pretty good at a bunch of parts of the game...allen was just as good a scorer and passer in his prime then pierce if not better but if you want to keep ignoring the facts then fine you asked me to show you a case for allen I did and you just ignore it so this argument is going nowhere since you won't acknowledge allens greatness

You're the only person I've ever seen that ranks people based on arbitrary, circumstantial records. Those three point shootout records and off the court stuff doesn't really matter, nor does how many three point attempts, FG makes in a game, consectutive point in a game determine player A is better than player B. Allen can have that three point record, while Paul keeps his Finals MVP, and has his number retired by a team :cheers:

[Boston C's]

You're the only person I've ever seen that ranks people based on arbitrary, circumstantial records. Those three point shootout records and off the court stuff doesn't really matter, nor does how many three point attempts, FG makes in a game, consectutive point in a game determine player A is better than player B. Allen can have that three point record, while Paul keeps his Finals MVP, and has his number retired by a team :cheers:

The records to me put him over because the accomplishments they had are so similar but hey I'm done arguing good debate lol .:cheers: ..and I have a feeling ray will get his number retired somewhere one day not that it really matters in the end

[Boston C's]

Everytime someone shoots a 3 they end up sooner or later mentioning Ray Allen...PP will be mentioned a little less then Tracy and a little more then Peja which is pretty much never.

I'd hope not it sadly might be true though pierce was always underrated but celtics lore will keep him alive...nationally though it could happen