sorry. but these 7 guys are on an untouchable mount rushmore

[kennethgriffin]

http://i61.tinypic.com/29kua2u.png

theres no way the elite 7 can be cut down to 4.

these 7 guys represented their eras and carried the league as the biggest icons of all time.

nobody else ever came as close to the same level of popularity/success/fan worship



forget oscar.. he was big during his time. but he has no fallowers, doesnt transend generations and have any new fans

forget shaq and duncan. nobody liked them.

lebron might be added as the 8th man. but wait till atleast his later days when he can talk about legacy

[cuad]

Who's that old white man on the right? Did you leave one of the old presidents up? Is that Lincoln?

[IGOTGAME]

If you were talking about the four best than Magic, Bird and Oscar are out.

[Milbuck]

http://www.remarksfromthebullpen.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/kobe.gif

[kennethgriffin]

http://www.remarksfromthebullpen.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/kobe.gif



asside from jordan and maybe magic.. whos a bigger icon with as much success?

kobe is a top 3 all time name/face/player combo... he transcends the game


cant argue with a mount rushmore spot..

[NumberSix]

This is soooo fcuking bad that it's genius.

[TheMarkMadsen]

those are probably the 7 most influential players of all time

[kennethgriffin]

those are probably the 7 most influential players of all time


exactly my point.. theres more too it than just stats, titles and records.. which all these guys have

[Milbuck]

asside from jordan and maybe magic.. whos a bigger icon with as much success?

kobe is a top 3 all time name/face/player combo... he transcends the game


cant argue with a mount rushmore spot..
I wasn't saying anything dude, it was just a reaction gif. Nothing specific.

[HOoopCityJones]

Bron will make just from fabrication by the League and ESPN.


Nah, he will be there though, no doubt.

[SamuraiSWISH]

That would be the NBA Mt Rushmore.

[oarabbus]

Who's that old white man on the right? Did you leave one of the old presidents up? Is that Lincoln?


Painfully unfunny. Bad post. 0/10.

[Smook A.]

That would be the NBA Mt Rushmore.
Nawwww
Its actually called NFL Mt. Rushmore

[JohnFreeman]

Change Kobe with Duncan

[HOoopCityJones]

Change Kobe with Duncan

:oldlol:

[SamuraiSWISH]

Change Kobe with Duncan
:oldlol:

[TylerOO]

Tell me that aint insecurrrrr

[kennethgriffin]

Change Kobe with Duncan


ludicrous

althought theyre somewhat similar accomplishment wise.


duncan is about 1/1000th as popular... hes not an icon like those 7 guys.

duncan had ZERO impact on the game of basketball

people respect the guy. thats about it


not influential to the grouth of the nba..

how many kids got into basketball cause of duncan?

maybe hes the reason theres no good centers left. he inspired nobody

[JohnFreeman]

:oldlol:
;)

[kennethgriffin]

kobe was so influential on youth during his career that even the 7 footers ended up practicing their gun slinger mentality which turned out guys like kevin durant..


instead of practicing post ups. they all fell in love with fade aways and pull ups


now we got thon maker comin outa highschool.. the 7 foot kobe bryant


thanks for nothing boring old tim duncan

:coleman:

[Jameerthefear]

Kobe Bryant sucks.

[JohnFreeman]

ludicrous

althought theyre somewhat similar accomplishment wise.


duncan is about 1/1000th as popular... hes not an icon like those 7 guys.

duncan had ZERO impact on the game of basketball

people respect the guy. thats about it


not influential to the grouth of the nba..

how many kids got into basketball cause of duncan?

maybe hes the reason theres no good centers left. he inspired nobody

The greatest power forward of all time is not an icon and has no impact on basketball? k.

[alexd]

asside from jordan and maybe magic.. whos a bigger icon with as much success?

kobe is a top 3 all time name/face/player combo... he transcends the game


cant argue with a mount rushmore spot..
dr.j was much more influential than kobe

[kennethgriffin]

The greatest power forward of all time is not an icon and has no impact on basketball? k.

being a great basketball player doesnt automatically mean you impacted the game..

people ignored duncan his whole career.. record low ratings in the finals

hes got no personality. no intensity. no visible passion. hes like some north korean out there just hoping he pleases the dictator greg poppavich

and the line "goat power forward" is probably the least intimidating thing to be known for in all of mens and womens sports.

while kobe has MJ to try and catch... with pressure to live up to those standards..

duncan only had to pass charles barkley or karl malone... he arguably did that his 2nd year in the league when he won a championship for god sake

:lol

[HOoopCityJones]

being a great basketball player doesnt automatically mean you impacted the game..

people ignored duncan his whole career.. record low ratings in the finals

hes got no personality. no intensity. no visible passion. hes like some north korean out there just hoping he pleases the dictator greg poppavich

and the line "goat power forward" is probably the least intimidating thing to be known for in all of mens and womens sports.

while kobe has MJ to try and catch... with pressure to live up to those standards..

duncan only had to pass charles barkley or karl malone... he arguably did that his 2nd year in the league when he won a championship for god sake

:lol

Damn :roll:

[kennethgriffin]

dr.j was much more influential than kobe


um.. no

he was very influential.. but kobe opened up the doors to fans world wide that worship the guy like hes god

i dont think 4 billion chinese people were killing themselves over julius erving back in the day

[TheReal Kendall]

I like your list but I think Dr.J should replace Kobe. or West

[JimmyMcAdocious]

There appears to be a face emerging from KAJ's beard.

[JohnFreeman]

being a great basketball player doesnt automatically mean you impacted the game..

people ignored duncan his whole career.. record low ratings in the finals

hes got no personality. no intensity. no visible passion. hes like some north korean out there just hoping he pleases the dictator greg poppavich

and the line "goat power forward" is probably the least intimidating thing to be known for in all of mens and womens sports.

while kobe has MJ to try and catch... with pressure to live up to those standards..

duncan only had to pass charles barkley or karl malone... he arguably did that his 2nd year in the league when he won a championship for god sake

:lol
:facepalm

[oarabbus]

dr.j was much more influential than kobe


Nope

and **** Dr. J

[kennethgriffin]

I like your list but I think Dr.J should replace Kobe. or West

why?

kobe = better career
kobe = better player
kobe = more fans
kobe = world wide god
kobe = player of his generation


dr j wasnt even in the nba during his prime. let alone the player of his generation (kareem)

[Levity]

its cool how everyone, besides MJ, are from 1 of two teams.

it shows you great franchises will always find their way back into relevance

[fpliii]

dr.j was much more influential than kobe
True.

[kennethgriffin]

True.


you cant honestly believe that lol


dr J brought maybe 50 million new fans to the game

compared to kobe... who brought maybe 4 billion new fans to the game

the globalization of basketball when the internet kicked off and really got popular was during kobes time as league face/icon


and dr j's fans arent nearly as dedicated

[SamuraiSWISH]

its cool how everyone, besides MJ, are from 1 of two teams.

it shows you great franchises will always find their way back into relevance
LeBron is the only other truly legendary ICONIC player besides MJ not to wear purple and gold, or celtic green. Durant has a true shot to be one of those guys along with MJ, and Bron though.

[T_L_P]

First of all, you seem to be making up the criteria to be featured as you go along (so as to keep Kobe on their).

Secondly, if we're going by your criteria of popularity and appeal, LeBron certainly has a case over the Wilt's, Russell's, and even Kareem's of the game.

[kennethgriffin]

LeBron is the only other truly legendary ICONIC player besides MJ not to wear purple and gold, or celtic green. Durant has a true shot to be one of those guys along with MJ, and Bron though.


going based on history.. its more than likely that somewhere down the road one of lebron or durant sign with LA or get traded there

might be after their prime. but its possible

[oarabbus]

Dr J is overrated

VC is better at dunking anyways.

[HOoopCityJones]

First of all, you seem to be making up the criteria to be featured as you go along (so as to keep Kobe on their).

Secondly, if we're going by your criteria of popularity and appeal, LeBron certainly has a case over the Wilt's, Russell's, and even Kareem's of the game.

Bro, don't say stuff like this or people wont take you seriously.

Kareem was one of the most popular NBA stars ever, not a favorite of the Media, but he was beloved in his hay day.

He fought Bruce Lee for god's sake.

[fpliii]

you cant honestly believe that lol


dr J brought maybe 50 million new fans to the game

compared to kobe... who brought maybe 4 billion new fans to the game

the globalization of basketball when the internet kicked off and really got popular was during kobes time as league face/icon


and dr j's fans arent nearly as dedicated
Dr. J saved the league dude. Not a knock on Kobe at all.

Let's be real here, 4 billion new fans? C'mon man, let's be real here. Besides, you guys are talking impact, not number of fans.

I think Kobe maybe has a good case as a better player than Dr. J though.

[T_L_P]

Bro, don't say stuff like this or people wont take you seriously.

Kareem was one of the most popular NBA stars ever, not a favorite of the Media, but he was beloved in his hay day.

He fought Bruce Lee for god's sake.

The OPs criteria seems to be current appeal according to population scales...in which case LeBron blows Kareem out of the water.

It's the truth.

[fpliii]

going based on history.. its more than likely that somewhere down the road one of lebron or durant sign with LA or get traded there

might be after their prime. but its possible
Nah...











...we're getting both. :cheers:

[kennethgriffin]

First of all, you seem to be making up the criteria to be featured as you go along (so as to keep Kobe on their).

Secondly, if we're going by your criteria of popularity and appeal, LeBron certainly has a case over the Wilt's, Russell's, and even Kareem's of the game.



let me ask you this.. why are the guys who are on the actual mount rushmore... on mount rushmore..


a) theyre icons

B) they carried their era's

C) they are recognised

D) they did great things

E) theyre the best of the best



duncan did great things. but thats about it..

sorry man.. duncan would barely make it just on his resume alone as it is..

its not like duncan has a clear cut case over shaq either.. who was infinitely more recognizable

shaq was atleast hated.. duncan was neither..

nobody cared to boo or cheer duncan.. hes like the randy orton of the NBA

people chant "lets go cena"..."cena sucks" during their matches.. it has nothing to do with that boring ass dude hes wrestling named randel

duncan is like the message board poster with one green bar....

and we all know the only posters that are relevant are the ones with multiple red or green bars.

[kennethgriffin]

Dr. J saved the league dude. Not a knock on Kobe at all.

Let's be real here, 4 billion new fans? C'mon man, let's be real here. Besides, you guys are talking impact, not number of fans.

I think Kobe maybe has a good case as a better player than Dr. J though.


lol no he didnt... bird and magic saved the league... the nba was boring and tape delayed till like 1985

and ok fine kobe didnt bring 4 billion... but i wouldnt be surprised if atleast 25% of china was a kobe fan

guess what 25% of 4 billion is

[SamuraiSWISH]

I think Kobe maybe has a good case as a better player than Dr. J though.
Maybe?

[JohnFreeman]

let me ask you this.. why are the guys who are on the actual mount rushmore... on mount rushmore..


a) theyre icons

B) they carried their era's

C) they are recognised

D) they did great things

E) theyre the best of the best



duncan did great things. but thats about it..

sorry man.. duncan would barely make it just on his resume alone as it is..

its not like duncan has a clear cut case over shaq either.. who was infinitely more recognizable

shaq was atleast hated.. duncan was neither..

nobody cared to boo or cheer duncan.. hes like the randy orton of the NBA

people chant "lets go cena"..."cena sucks" during their matches.. it has nothing to do with that boring ass dude hes wrestling named randel

duncan is like the message board poster with one green bar....

and we all know the only posters that are relevant are the ones with multiple red or green bars.

3 FMVPS > 2 FMVPS
2 MVPS is better than 1

[JBrizzy]

Just the fact that people are debating this means that they are not untouchable. This is one person's opinion. Just because you put there mugs on top of a mountain doesn't mean shit.

But nice picture.

[Miller for 3]

Don't forget Mikan, Shaq, Kobe, Wade, Sabonis, Ginobili, etc. All are better/more inspirational than Lebron. Lebron can be the Washington monument, aka the ***** statue

[fpliii]

Maybe?
I wouldn't be confident saying either was definitely better than the other.

[HOoopCityJones]

Ever since Lebron named his dud Top 5 GOAT list , people been acting like Dr. J wasn't just an athletic Dunker.

He was that Era's Vince Carter, he was fortunate enough to be with Moses Malone past his prime and won a ring.

Not saying he didn't change the game with his high flying.

But iconic? Nah.

[retaxis]

I love trolls making their own criteria to place their player on top. You just know they are at home with no life.

[FaceBack]

sorry, but Mount Rushmore is not a sculpture of the greatest all time presidents. You basically have the founder of the USA, the one that abolished slavery, the one that preserved natural wonders, and the one who wrote the declaration of independence and acquired the largest land purchase in US history. LeBron, Kobe, MJ, aren't ever on the NBA's Mount Rushmore. That would be Wilt, Bird, Magic, and Leo Ferris.

[fpliii]

lol no he didnt... bird and magic saved the league... the nba was boring and tape delayed till like 1985

and ok fine kobe didnt bring 4 billion... but i wouldnt be surprised if atleast 25% of china was a kobe fan

guess what 25% of 4 billion is
Dr. J was one of the first guys to get major endorsements and shoes named after him.

Dude, that's still 1 billion people you're saying got into the league just because of Kobe. 1/7 of the world's population. That's ludicrous. Even half of that is insane. Do that many people even know about any one non-MJ player?

You know me griff, I like Kobe a lot, much more than most. But let's call a spade a spade here lol.

[zoom17]

I love trolls making their own criteria to place their player on top. You just know they are at home with no life.

:oldlol:

[kennethgriffin]

Just the fact that people are debating this means that they are not untouchable. This is one person's opinion. Just because you put there mugs on top of a mountain doesn't mean shit.

But nice picture.



people are arguing that there should be guys with lesser careers, influential impact on the game


because some people are just looking to stir the pot

they dont actually believe guys like erving/duncan belong on a list with guys 1000 times more popular around the world


how many dr j and duncan fans are on this forum?

maybe 1 or 2 ... those other 7 guys have a hardcore fan base

and ofcourse it isnt just about impact/popularity

those 7 guys are legendary players aswell

[TheMilkyBarKid]

Typical kobe cocksucking post. 0/10.

[kennethgriffin]

Dr. J was one of the first guys to get major endorsements and shoes named after him.

Dude, that's still 1 billion people you're saying got into the league just because of Kobe. 1/7 of the world's population. That's ludicrous. Even half of that is insane. Do that many people even know about any one non-MJ player?

You know me griff, I like Kobe a lot, much more than most. But let's call a spade a spade here lol.


i actually dont think its that out of line to assume kobe brought more fans to the game than anyone in history...

i'm not saying only kobe could have done it. but he was the poster boy of the nba during the time when the world went "ONLINE"

and tv rights became mainstream available world wide..

during the 90's ( and i remember because i lived in canada ) it was rare to see a game. if you werent a fan of the bulls you got to see your favorite team maybe 2 times a year.


the bulls were world wide ( and jordan was the first international reaching icon )

but only on video tapes and commercials or big events


kobe was the first guy to be given international live viewing availability for every game in every country around the world


like i said. why do you think kobe is a god like no other in china?

[fpliii]

i actually dont think its that out of line to assume kobe brought more fans to the game than anyone in history...

i'm not saying only kobe could have done it. but he was the poster boy of the nba during the time when the world went "ONLINE"

and tv rights became mainstream available world wide..

during the 90's ( and i remember because i lived in canada ) it was rare to see a game. if you werent a fan of the bulls you got to see your favorite team maybe 2 times a year.


the bulls were world wide ( and jordan was the first international reaching icon )

but only on video tapes and commercials or big events


kobe was the first guy to be given international live viewing availability for every game in every country around the world


like i said. why do you think kobe is a god like no other in china?
lol idk man. See, I don't mind saying Kobe is one of the most popular players ever. But you're putting him multiple levels above all these other guys.

If we're talking billions here, You're basically contending that he's one of the 50 or so most influential humans in recorded history. Maybe higher.

[Dave3]

and ok fine kobe didnt bring 4 billion... but i wouldnt be surprised if atleast 25% of china was a kobe fan

guess what 25% of 4 billion is
I'm not gonna bother with the basketball aspect of this because I know you're just trolling and watching people reply thinking you're serious while you laugh at them, but....

Did you just say China's population is 4 billion people?:wtf:

That's almost as funny as you saying Kobe brought basketball to almost 60% of the world...

This thread is already a classic. Carry on.

[Fudge]

I :roll:'d hard. Holy fukk.

Dat #RapeBe face.

[LeGOAT]

Kobe is a Michael Jordan lite.

[T_L_P]

Yao Ming brought in all those Chinese fans and they attached themselves to Kobe when he left.

In 2005, Kobe had the 3rd most All-Star votes, and only about 5,000 more votes than Duncan/Carter. In 2008, he had the 4th most votes.

[kennethgriffin]

lol idk man. See, I don't mind saying Kobe is one of the most popular players ever. But you're putting him multiple levels above all these other guys.

If we're talking billions here, You're basically contending that he's one of the 50 or so most influential humans in recorded history. Maybe higher.

i think mistakingly and unknowingly yes.. he might be

by accident... right place/right time

i'm sure if kobe played in the 70s and dr j took over the nba when the internet was launched.. then he'd be the man that asians cry about like they just saw allah

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crp2Nk2VMn8

[SamuraiSWISH]

I wouldn't be confident saying either was definitely better than the other.
:facepalm

[Illuminati]

Sorry but LeBron is passing all of them except for two. Once this happens, we can talk about what he needs to pass those two too.

[kennethgriffin]

Yao Ming brought in all those Chinese fans and they attached themselves to Kobe when he left.

In 2005, Kobe had the 3rd most All-Star votes, and only about 5,000 more votes than Duncan/Carter. In 2008, he had the 4th most votes.


you're a dumbsh*t ... anyone ever tell you this?

kobe was selling more jerseys in china than yao from day 1 till the end of his career

[fpliii]

:facepalm
If it's not close, who are you suggesting is better by a huge gap?

[T_L_P]

you're a dumbsh*t ... anyone ever tell you this?

kobe was selling more jerseys in china than yao from day 1 till the end of his career

Rose was China's biggest jersey seller last year...

Also:


compared to kobe... who brought maybe 4 billion new fans to the game

The implication that Kobe brought in nearly 70% of all current NBA fans is literally the dumbest thing ever uttered. If that were the case why did he not runaway with All-Star votes every year?

You also misspelled followers as 'fallowers'.

:facepalm

[SamuraiSWISH]

If it's not close, who are you suggesting is better by a huge gap?
I definitely think Kobe is the better player. Dr. J was absolutely more innovative, and inspirational within his generation of players. No denying that ... he was an originator. Kobe is at heart a copy cat player.

But c'mon, Kobe's better on both sides of the ball.

Erving was a 22 ppg 4 apg 7 rpg per game player in his NBA career. Post merger, when talent was better league wide than his pure ABA days. No NBA MVP, 1x championship.

Meanwhile, Kobe is 25 / 5 / 5 while also being the superior defender. Removing his 2x seasons coming off the bench he's 27 / 5 / 5 player. Kobe has an MVP, and 5x championships.

I don't even think this one is a debate. Erving isn't in people's top ten, or even top twelve. Kobe is universally accepted, even by staunch Kobe / Laker haters that he's a top ten player of all-time.

[kennethgriffin]

If it's not close, who are you suggesting is better by a huge gap?


popularity wise.. dr j is close to guys like kobe and magic.. ya

but dr j's resume weighs heavily on aba accomplishments.. which dont count


its like wcw titles... nobody counts booker T's 5 time wcw titles when he came over to WWE lol

and i dont care if the aba had some great talent... the wcw had goldberg and sting.. ya .. but the industry that folds.. so goes whatever was done in it at the time

[fpliii]

Surprised at both of your responses. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree that it's not close.

I like Kobe, but I think Dr. J is disrespected on this forum a bit. You can't just throw the ABA stuff out the window IMO, if you're not doing the same with the NBA from the same seasons.

No big deal, though.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Surprised at both of your responses. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree that it's not close.
It's not. Not in terms of their games, or even close in terms of resume. Dr. J is one of the all-time founders for the modern game, sure. But beyond that as his legacy, he isn't a better player than any of the following perimeter guys: Jordan, LeBron, Kobe, or even Durant as of now.

ABA accomplishments unfortunately don't count. Just like no one credits Steve Young, Hershell Walker, Jim Kelly, Reggie White's days in the USFL.

Sure there was some top end talent in upstart leagues like the ABA. But the NBA, the NFL ... they had the best overall talent. It shows too when there is a significant decrease in individual production against superior competition.

[ivienthol]

That's a good list. As someone who grew up in the Jordan era, I didn't think anyone could fill his shoes. He was so far ahead of everybody it was ridiculous. Then Kobe comes along being trying to be like Mike, talking like Mike. I didn't like him at all. Now all these years later, he didn't fill MJ's shoes. But he did throw his own shoes in the mix and they're every bit as important to the game of basketball. He did it through hard work and never giving up. He's just as influential as the other men on that mountain so my hats off to him. I think it was around 2007 when I finally just had begrudgingly say to myself that Kobe's the man. I'm happy I still get a couple more years at least of watching him play.

[kennethgriffin]

Surprised at both of your responses. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree that it's not close.

I like Kobe, but I think Dr. J is disrespected on this forum a bit. You can't just throw the ABA stuff out the window IMO, if you're not doing the same with the NBA from the same seasons.

No big deal, though.


if we start including ABA accomplishments into NBA discussions.. then where do we draw the line?

then we might aswell add in a players euro league success or college career

then candice parkers brother ends up on mount rushmore

and bill walton climbs 20 spots on the all time list

[kennethgriffin]

That's a good list. As someone who grew up in the Jordan era, I didn't think anyone could fill his shoes. He was so far ahead of everybody it was ridiculous. Then Kobe comes along being trying to be like Mike, talking like Mike. I didn't like him at all. Now all these years later, he didn't fill MJ's shoes. But he did throw his own shoes in the mix and they're every bit as important to the game of basketball. He did it through hard work and never giving up. He's just as influential as the other men on that mountain so my hats off to him. I think it was around 2007 when I finally just had begrudgingly say to myself that Kobe's the man. I'm happy I still get a couple more years at least of watching him play.


:cheers:

[fpliii]

It's not. Not in terms of their games, or even close in terms of resume. Dr. J is one of the all-time founders for the modern game, sure. But beyond that as his legacy, he isn't a better player than any of the following perimeter guys: Jordan, LeBron, Kobe, or even Durant as of now.

ABA accomplishments unfortunately don't count. Just like no one credits Steve Young, Hershell Walker, Jim Kelly, Reggie White's days in the USFL.

Sure there was some top end talent in upstart leagues like the ABA. But the NBA, the NFL ... they had the best overall talent. It shows too when there is a significant decrease in individual production against superior competition.
http://remembertheaba.com/ABAStatistics/ABANBAExhibitions.html


However, in the later years of the rivalry, the tide began to turn. Buoyed by younger, better talent and (in many cases) the home court advantage, ABA teams began winning most of the games. Over the last three seasons of the rivalry, the ABA steadily pulled ahead: 15-10 (in 1973), 16-7 (in 1974), and 31-17 (in 1975). The ABA won the overall interleague rivalry, 79 games to 76.

Last I checked, some of the exhibitions are on YouTube. Much more intensity than preseason games. I'd agree with you that the NBA was far superior early on, but in the final 3 seasons pre-merger the ABA teams had a 62-34 record. 65% homie. We can't throw that out the window.

The ABA wasn't on the same level before then, but if you're discrediting the league in those final three seasons, you have to do the same to the NBA.

You can't just look at points/rebounds/assists. Dr. J was put in a different situation, and had black holes to share the ball with on offense. Look what he did in the playoffs in the NBA, and in the Finals in particular before they got Moses:


ABA:

regular season - 28.7/12.1/4.8/2.4/4.0 on .504/.322/.778 shooting
playoffs - 31.1/12.9/5.1/1.6/1.7 on .519/.250/.795 shooting
1974 Finals - 28.2/11.4/5.0/1.8/1.4 on .513/.333/.750 shooting
1976 Finals - 37.7/14.2/5.3/3.0/2.2 on .590/--/.786 shooting*

1971-72 ABA All-ABA (2nd)
1971-72 ABA All-Rookie (1st)
1972-73 ABA All-ABA (1st)
1973-74 ABA All-ABA (1st)
1974-75 ABA All-ABA (1st)
1975-76 ABA All-ABA (1st)
1975-76 ABA All-Defensive (1st)

3xMVP (1973-74, 1974-75 co-MVP, 1975-76)
2xChampion (1974, 1976)

* (I don't have block/steal numbers at the moment, but in the closeout game J put up 31/19/5/5/5 against Bobby Jones; he also made 2 3's in the series, but I don't know the percentages)

NBA:

regular season - 22.0/6.7/3.9/1.8/1.5 on .507/.261/.777 shooting
playoffs - 21.9/7.0/4.2/1.7/1.7 on .486/.194/.779 shooting
1977 Finals - 30.3/6.8/5.0/2.7/0.8 on .543/--/.857 shooting
1980 Finals - 25.5/7.0/5.0/2.0/2.3 on .522/.250/.708 shooting
1982 Finals - 25.0/8.2/3.3/1.8/1.3 on .543/.000/.720 shooting
1983 Finals - 19.0/8.5/5.0/1.3/2.8 on .469/--/.800 shooting

1976-77 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
1977-78 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1979-80 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1980-81 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1981-82 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1982-83 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1983-84 NBA All-NBA (2nd)

1xMVP (1980-81)
1xChampion (1983)

------------------

Now whether or not we *can* take his ABA seasons at face value is a big question in and of itself (though in his defense, when he played the leagues were at least comparable), but if we do...he has to be pretty high up there, don't you think?

I'm a Kobe fan so I'm not one to underrate him, I'm just contending that picking one over the other isn't an obvious choice.

[fpliii]

if we start including ABA accomplishments into NBA discussions.. then where do we draw the line?

then we might aswell add in a players euro league success or college career

then candice parkers brother ends up on mount rushmore

and bill walton climbs 20 spots on the all time list
See my post below. The ABA teams went 62-34 against the NBA in the final three seasons pre-merger. If you throw out the ABA, you have to throw out the NBA seasons in 73-74, 74-75, 75-76, or really everything pre-merger.

Are you comfortable saying that nothing counts pre-76-77?

[kennethgriffin]

http://remembertheaba.com/ABAStatistics/ABANBAExhibitions.html



Last I checked, some of the exhibitions are on YouTube. Much more intensity than preseason games. I'd agree with you that the NBA was far superior early on, but in the final 3 seasons pre-merger the ABA teams had a 62-34 record. 65% homie. We can't throw that out the window.

The ABA wasn't on the same level before then, but if you're discrediting the league in those final three seasons, you have to do the same to the NBA.

You can't just look at points/rebounds/assists. Dr. J was put in a different situation, and had black holes to share the ball with on offense. Look what he did in the playoffs in the NBA, and in the Finals in particular before they got Moses:



I'm a Kobe fan so I'm not one to underrate him, I'm just contending that picking one over the other isn't an obvious choice.

na its pretty obvious outside of ABA fans opinions..

common man you gotta feel like that euroleague poster right about now.. on the outside looking in..

i respect aba stuff.. but i put less weight on it. i might use an aba title as a tie breaker for someone who has as many titles in the nba as someone else...

like if dr j had 4 more nba titles.. i would put him over kobe no question..

but your comparing a guy with 1 real title and others from a league that hasnt existed since the 70's

[fpliii]

na its pretty obvious outside of ABA fans opinions..

common man you gotta feel like that euroleague poster right about now.. on the outside looking in..

i respect aba stuff.. but i put less weight on it. i might use an aba title as a tie breaker for someone who has as many titles in the nba as someone else...

like if dr j had 4 more nba titles.. i would put him over kobe no question..

but your comparing a guy with 1 real title and others from a league that hasnt existed since the 70's
I'm not putting him above Kobe, I'm just saying that they're not on entirely different levels. In terms of career, Kobe obviously wins. But again, the ABA was not a minor league. They beat the NBA teams 65% of the time when they went head-to-head the final three pre-merger years.

This isn't a topic I even care all that much about so I don't want to belabor the point.

[kennethgriffin]

if the cfl joined the nfl.. and the best cfl player went on to win a superbowl title


would his cfl grey cups be considered superbowl titles all of a sudden?


ABA was obviously a better league than the cfl... but still... a lesser league has a class all by itself. they cant be transfered..

[fpliii]

if the cfl joined the nfl.. and the best cfl player went on to win a superbowl title


would his cfl grey cups be considered superbowl titles all of a sudden?


ABA was obviously a better league than the cfl... but still... a lesser league has a class all by itself. they cant be transfered..
Again though, ABA teams were 62-34 against NBA teams those last three seasons. If you're throwing out the ABA, you're throwing out the NBA pre-merger too.

They don't count if you're talking "NBA legacy" obviously, but in terms of ability as a basketball player we can't ignore his level of play. :confusedshrug:

When did CFL or Euroleague teams regularly beat NFL or NBA teams when they went to head, especially over a 96 game sample, 65% of the time, over three years?

[kennethgriffin]

I'm not putting him above Kobe, I'm just saying that they're not on entirely different levels. In terms of career, Kobe obviously wins. But again, the ABA was not a minor league. They beat the NBA teams 65% of the time when they went head-to-head the final three pre-merger years.

This isn't a topic I even care all that much about so I don't want to belabor the point.



i dunno i think the tiers go


1

jordan
kareem
russell

( goat candidates )

2

wilt
magic
kobe
bird

( semi goat candidates missing maybe 1 or 2 titles )

3

hakeem
duncan
shaq
lebron
oscar

( could have been semi goat candidates with more a more iconic presence or more accomplishments )

4

west
baylor
erving
moses
etc... more guys but no need to name them

( guys who never had goat candidacy, had an iconic presence but never had the accomplishments.. or had the accomplishments but dont have the iconic presence )

[fpliii]

I don't have a GOAT list any more. No point IMO, more trouble than it's worth. I'd rather just appreciate Kobe and these other guys, and look at some of the crazy shit they did on the court, as opposed to nitpicking about legacies. These dudes are all great.

[kennethgriffin]

Again though, ABA teams were 62-34 against NBA teams those last three seasons. If you're throwing out the ABA, you're throwing out the NBA pre-merger too.

They don't count if you're talking "NBA legacy" obviously, but in terms of ability as a basketball player we can't ignore his level of play. :confusedshrug:

When did CFL or Euroleague teams regularly beat NFL or NBA teams when they went to head, especially over a 96 game sample, 65% of the time, over three years?


who gets up more to play a game... an nba team or a euro league team?

why do you think euro clubs make a game out of it during pre season exibitions?

because theyre trying their a**es off


to the nba guys they were the top dogs

the aba guys coming in had everything to prove and everything to lose

the nba guys could relax.. no adrenaline flowing through those guys

the fact that so few teams were added to the nba and so many guys ended up without a job should tell you which league was better


who baught who

[fpliii]

who gets up more to play a game... an nba team or a euro league team?

why do you think euro clubs make a game out of it during pre season exibitions?

because theyre trying their a**es off


to the nba guys they were the top dogs

the aba guys coming in had everything to prove and everything to lose

the nba guys could relax.. no adrenaline flowing through those guys

the fact that so few teams were added to the nba and so many guys ended up without a job should tell you which league was better


who baught who
NBA teams beat Euroleague teams literally 80-90 percent of the time though lol. Again, I don't care all that much, I just strongly disagree that the ABA, in 73-74, 74-75, 75-76 was any less of a league than the NBA in those same three seasons.

I don't have any attachment to those players or teams, just calling it as I see it.

:cheers:

[kennethgriffin]

NBA teams beat Euroleague teams literally 80-90 percent of the time though lol. Again, I don't care all that much, I just strongly disagree that the ABA, in 73-74, 74-75, 75-76 was any less of a league than the NBA in those same three seasons.

I don't have any attachment to those players or teams, just calling it as I see it.

:cheers:


even if it was a great league... hell.. lets say it shat on the nba and the nba was crap

i still wouldnt put ABA titles next to nba titles..

like i said. where then do you draw the line?

then you can add any title from any team from any country or level based solely on exibition win%?

north korea beat nba players in a few games over the last 5 years..

now kim zong jung the 5 time north korean mvp is in the same class as jordan?

[fpliii]

even if it was a great league... hell.. lets say it shat on the nba and the nba was crap

i still wouldnt put ABA titles next to nba titles..

like i said. where then do you draw the line?

then you can add any title from any team from any country or level based solely on exibition win%?

north korea beat nba players in a few games over the last 5 years..

now kim zong jung the 5 time north korean mvp is in the same class as jordan?
lol nah, just leagues from mergers. There have been two:

NBL-BAA in 1949
NBA-ABA in 1976

This isn't a few games, this is 65% out of nearly 100 games over 3 years griff. I'm not even suggesting the ABA was better, just that for those three seasons alone, they were comparable.

As I said, if you want to throw the ABA titles out the window that's fine, but that means you have to start looking at the NBA in 76-77.

[T_L_P]

i dunno i think the tiers go


1

jordan
kareem
russell

( goat candidates )

2

wilt
magic
kobe
bird

( semi goat candidates missing maybe 1 or 2 titles )

3

hakeem
duncan
shaq
lebron
oscar

( could have been semi goat candidates with more a more iconic presence or more accomplishments )

4

west
baylor
erving
moses
etc... more guys but no need to name them

( guys who never had goat candidacy, had an iconic presence but never had the accomplishments.. or had the accomplishments but dont have the iconic presence )

Can you please explain why popularity/image weighs so much on your GOAT list?

[davehos]

um.. no

he was very influential.. but kobe opened up the doors to fans world wide that worship the guy like hes god

i dont think 4 billion chinese people were killing themselves over julius erving back in the day

You trolling? Tim Duncan had no impact on basketball? Now I know you're just trolling. To not say he's in the top 7 is cool. To say he doesn't even belong in the conversation is just nonsense.

Dr. J not more influential than Kobe? What exactly did Kobe change about basketball? Just off the top of my head Dr. J made the dunk cool. If you disagree check your history.

[kennethgriffin]

lol nah, just leagues from mergers. There have been two:

NBL-BAA in 1949
NBA-ABA in 1976

This isn't a few games, this is 65% out of nearly 100 games over 3 years griff. I'm not even suggesting the ABA was better, just that for those three seasons alone, they were comparable.

As I said, if you want to throw the ABA titles out the window that's fine, but that means you have to start looking at the NBA in 76-77.


the level of play doesnt matter though. i keep trying to tell you.. if its not called the nba. it doesnt count



for the protection of the integrity of the game

players merge to the nba. some do better here then they do in europe.. some do worse in europe than in the nba

some euro clubs are better than some nba teams


what if china becomes a superpower. and all the best players go over there where the money is.

are we gonna start counting china league accomplishments with nba accomplishments?

its just too many questions and opens up a whole can of worms

obviously erving gets a boost cause of his ABA credentials. but they dont count 100% towards an nba career


if just his 1 title and 22ppg were all that people counted.. people wouldnt have him top 15... he'd be around top 25


he already gets a boost.

but only a minor one from a minor league

[SuperPippen]

:roll: at Kobe being responsible for bringing 4 billion new fans to basketball. No sport can count 4 billion fans, except for possibly soccer.

Dr. J revolutionized the game. Kobe didn't. Kobe's legacy was forged directly in imitation of those who came before. Dr. J was a true original. Kobe wasn't. And I say this as a big Kobe fan also happens to think that Kobe was a definitively better player.


No amount of rationalizing or bullshit arguments is gonna change the fact that Kobe isn't as great as you think he is. And yet your insecure ass continues to make threads to try to convince everybody, including yourself, of your agenda. If you and the other disgusting Kobe stans really believed this crap, you wouldn't make so many idiotic topics about it so often.

But don't let me stop you! Your threads are funny as ****, so go ahead and keep making 'em so we can keep laughing! :rockon:

[retaxis]

rule 1 of not wasting time: don't ever reply or talk to retards like Kenneth or coin etc.

[kennethgriffin]

You trolling? Tim Duncan had no impact on basketball? Now I know you're just trolling. To not say he's in the top 7 is cool. To say he doesn't even belong in the conversation is just nonsense.

Dr. J not more influential than Kobe? What exactly did Kobe change about basketball? Just off the top of my head Dr. J made the dunk cool. If you disagree check your history.


when i mean no.. i mean... next to none compared to the 7 guys i listed

obviously around texas he had a fallowing.. but he isnt a nationwide icon or world wide like those other guys


you do realise i'm speaking about more than just straight skill/accomplishments right?


did you know that the only time in my life that i ever saw a guy wear a duncan jersey outside of sanantonio or a basketball arena was on the show "making the band" back in the mid 2000's when this one black rapper had a spurs #21

i swear. never again or before have i seen a fan of his

i think theres one guy on this forum who actually worships the guy

[SavageMode]

:roll: at Kobe being responsible for bringing 4 billion new fans to basketball. No sport can count 4 billion fans, except for possibly soccer.

Dr. J revolutionized the game. Kobe didn't. Kobe's legacy was forged directly in imitation of those who came before. Dr. J was a true original. Kobe wasn't. And I say this as a big Kobe fan also happens to think that Kobe was a definitively better player.


No amount of rationalizing or bullshit arguments is gonna change the fact that Kobe isn't as great as you think he is. And yet your insecure ass continues to make threads to try to convince everybody, including yourself, of your agenda. If you and the other disgusting Kobe stans really believed this crap, you wouldn't make so many idiotic topics about it so often.

But don't let me stop you! Your threads are funny as ****, so go ahead and keep making 'em so we can keep laughing! :rockon:
Ether'd.

kenneth only started watching basketball in 09

[J Shuttlesworth]

asside from jordan and maybe magic.. whos a bigger icon with as much success?

kobe is a top 3 all time name/face/player combo... he transcends the game


cant argue with a mount rushmore spot..
I don't think an "icon" makes him on a GOAT list. By the same means, Justin Bieber is an all time great musician because everyone knows him :coleman: Do you really think Justin Bieber will be studied in music theory classes? Just like chucking isn't taught by good NBA coaches.The fact is Kobe's been in the league forever and only has 2 FMVPs and 1 MVP? 3 other Lakers belong on the list before him.

[The Iron Fist]

First of all, you seem to be making up the criteria to be featured as you go along (so as to keep Kobe on their).

Secondly, if we're going by your criteria of popularity and appeal, LeBron certainly has a case over the Wilt's, Russell's, and even Kareem's of the game.
:facepalm

Not a chance.

[SamuraiSWISH]

:roll: at Kobe being responsible for bringing 4 billion new fans to basketball. No sport can count 4 billion fans, except for possibly soccer.

Dr. J revolutionized the game. Kobe didn't. Kobe's legacy was forged directly in imitation of those who came before. Dr. J was a true original. Kobe wasn't. And I say this as a big Kobe fan also happens to think that Kobe was a definitively better player.


No amount of rationalizing or bullshit arguments is gonna change the fact that Kobe isn't as great as you think he is. And yet your insecure ass continues to make threads to try to convince everybody, including yourself, of your agenda. If you and the other disgusting Kobe stans really believed this crap, you wouldn't make so many idiotic topics about it so often.

But don't let me stop you! Your threads are funny as ****, so go ahead and keep making 'em so we can keep laughing! :rockon:
:eek:

[AintNoSunshine]

LOL one doesn't belong at all, guess who it is.

Allen Iverson was more of an icon than your boyfriend.

[The Iron Fist]

I love trolls making their own criteria to place their player on top. You just know they are at home with no life.
Actually its criteria Jordan stans made up to prop up Jordan over everyone else.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Actually its criteria Jordan stans made up to prop up Jordan over everyone else.
Prop him up? MJ made his own argument for GOAT. Didn't need to be propped up by anything. Only a Laker stan would make it sound like Jordan doesn't have the best case for GOAT. His argument for GOAT is one that the vast majority of all basketball minds contend is the appropriate answer.

[tragicbronson]

That's a good list. As someone who grew up in the Jordan era, I didn't think anyone could fill his shoes. He was so far ahead of everybody it was ridiculous. Then Kobe comes along being trying to be like Mike, talking like Mike. I didn't like him at all. Now all these years later, he didn't fill MJ's shoes. But he did throw his own shoes in the mix and they're every bit as important to the game of basketball. He did it through hard work and never giving up. He's just as influential as the other men on that mountain so my hats off to him. I think it was around 2007 when I finally just had begrudgingly say to myself that Kobe's the man. I'm happy I still get a couple more years at least of watching him play.

That's obvious cause i can see that the hype got the best of you.

[SamuraiSWISH]

That's obvious cause i can see that the hype got the best of you.
LOL Jordan was HYPE? Dude lived up, and exceeded all his hype. Hype is saying "We all Witness" and "Chosen One" tattoos ... then losing in two Finals, one as favorites ... going Casper status on the big stage. Promising Cleveland a ring, then bailing when he considered it too difficult, leaving for a place to do it as easily as possible. MJ was real. Everyone since has been hype.

[davehos]

... and for Chrissakes ... Dr. J is such an icon we don't even call him by his real name ... Julius Erving.

This thread is so full of fail.

One of the most historic shots in NBA history (http://www.nba.com/video/channels/nba_tv/2011/09/05/20110830_dr_j_baseline_scoop.nba/)

[The Iron Fist]

Prop him up? MJ made his own argument for GOAT. Didn't need to be propped up by anything. Only a Laker stan would make it sound like Jordan doesn't have the best case for GOAT. His argument for GOAT is one that the vast majority of all basketball minds contend is the appropriate answer.

Who said he doesn't have a case? Nobody. When it comes to Kareem vs Jordan, Jordanites use the exact same criteria OP is using right here to put him past Kareem.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Who said he doesn't have a case? Nobody. When it comes to Kareem vs Jordan, Jordanites use the exact same criteria OP is using right here to put him past Kareem.
Criteria? It's called logic. MJ > Kareem. Take the Laker logo dildo out of your ass.

[tragicbronson]

LOL Jordan was HYPE? Dude lived up, and exceeded all his hype. Hype is saying "We all Witness" and "Chosen One" tattoos ... then losing in two Finals, one as favorites ... going Casper status on the big stage. Promising Cleveland a ring, then bailing when he considered it too difficult, leaving for a place to do it as easily as possible. MJ was real. Everyone since has been hype.

Yes Jordan was hyped, league and nation needed a hero and he was that guy. People claim that teams are stacked today, i hate that word and i think it makes no sense but none team today had so much talent around as it Bulls in that era had, so much that they won just 2 less games in season without him. What i was trying to say is that it was hyped that he is untouchable god who is above everyone else and can't be beaten while he can beat everyone just by himself. As an example of hype is NCAA finals where Worthy was the best player but he is barely mentioned in some reports or texts from that game because he played with Jordan. Bulls with Jordan and without other great players such as Pippen Grant Rodman Kukoc were just a 1st round playoff team. I respect Jordan, he is one of the best ever, he has done many great things on and off the court, i love his shoes brand :cheers: , but the thing that he can't be challenged and that he is clearly the god of basketball is pure hype.

Wilt's quote that kind of sum it up in slightly different way.
"If Michael was here right now, I would say to him: When you are so great that the league tries to change the rules in an attempt to stop you then you can claim you are the best ever. Every rule change I have seen during your career has been meant to enhance your game."

[Y2ktors]

Yes Jordan was hyped, league and nation needed a hero and he was that guy. People claim that teams are stacked today, i hate that word and i think it makes no sense but none team today had so much talent around as it Bulls in that era had, so much that they won just 2 less games in season without him. What i was trying to say is that it was hyped that he is untouchable god who is above everyone else and can't be beaten while he can beat everyone just by himself. As an example of hype is NCAA finals where Worthy was the best player but he is barely mentioned in some reports or texts from that game because he played with Jordan. Bulls with Jordan and without other great players such as Pippen Grant Rodman Kukoc were just a 1st round playoff team. I respect Jordan, he is one of the best ever, he has done many great things on and off the court, i love his shoes brand :cheers: , but the thing that he can't be challenged and that he is clearly the god of basketball is pure hype.

Wilt's quote that kind of sum it up in slightly different way.
"If Michael was here right now, I would say to him: When you are so great that the league tries to change the rules in an attempt to stop you then you can claim you are the best ever. Every rule change I have seen during your career has been meant to enhance your game."
Wilt was the guy who also mentioned how everyone in the league should give Jordan 10% of their salary... Basically because he's worth that.

[ImKobe]

The Logo is not there? smh

[Mass Debator]

Missing Ron Artest

[Dr.J4ever]

See my post below. The ABA teams went 62-34 against the NBA in the final three seasons pre-merger. If you throw out the ABA, you have to throw out the NBA seasons in 73-74, 74-75, 75-76, or really everything pre-merger.

Are you comfortable saying that nothing counts pre-76-77?
Thank you for bringing these up. Doc to me was the greatest SF of all time. Not only do the number prove it, but the winning too. Doc has been the heart of a contending team or champion team for over a decade in the 70s and 80s for 2 teams and 2 leagues.

And the part about the ABA, I had a post about the ABA's superiority over the NBA the last 3 years before the merger. I agree, what do we do about that?

To me, ABA stats should be equal to NBA stats.

[Dr.J4ever]

if the cfl joined the nfl.. and the best cfl player went on to win a superbowl title


would his cfl grey cups be considered superbowl titles all of a sudden?


ABA was obviously a better league than the cfl... but still... a lesser league has a class all by itself. they cant be transfered..
The ABA was not considered a lesser league by many when it merged with the NBA. In fact, many believed it to be at par with the NBA at the time of the merger. Ask yourself--who would you take in a 7 game series between the last 2 champions before the merger? Boston with an older Havlicek, Jojo White or Doc's Nets? Many believe the Nets were the better team.

[ralph_i_el]

http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/b619/alex_mcdonald2/sammcassell_zps8c7225b5.jpg (http://s1294.photobucket.com/user/alex_mcdonald2/media/sammcassell_zps8c7225b5.jpg.html)

this is just bad. Get rid of Kobe

[bizil]

In terms of the guys who were the most important in globalizing the NBA and working in concert with Stern, mine is Dr J, Magic, Bird, and MJ. Doc was very essential because I believe he gave Stern the vision. By the time Stern took over, Doc was a living legend still in his backend prime. But Doc was tailor made for marketing and being the ambassador of a league. Magic, Bird, and MJ go without saying of course. But I wanted to give Doc some props cause he was the blueprint and marketed as the Living Legend of the L along with Kareem. Doc however was the one made for marketing and promoting the L to casual fans.

[ralph_i_el]

If Kobe never played for the Lakers and never played with Shaq he'd be on the Dirk/Wade/KG tier.

[Dr.J4ever]

who gets up more to play a game... an nba team or a euro league team?

why do you think euro clubs make a game out of it during pre season exibitions?

because theyre trying their a**es off


to the nba guys they were the top dogs

the aba guys coming in had everything to prove and everything to lose

the nba guys could relax.. no adrenaline flowing through those guys

the fact that so few teams were added to the nba and so many guys ended up without a job should tell you which league was better


who baught who
The NFL survived the AFL, but the AFL may have been better the last 2 years before the merger. Who bought who is a financial consideration, not proof of athletic superiority. Besides, pro basketball was struggling during the 70s for both leagues. It was a move for survival for both leagues really.

Actually, the 2 leagues decided to merge in the earliest part of the 70s. This is why exhibitions were increased. The games were VERY intense if you read the "remember the ABA" article posted by fpiiii. Of the 84 players in the ABA before the merger, 63 played in the NBA the following season.

Don Buse of the ABA led the NBA in assists and steals. The Denver Nugget, who were beaten by Doc's Nets in the ABA Finals, won the their division with the 2nd best record in the NBA, just 1 game off the best record. The Spurs won their division, as well.

The link below will open your eyes with the truth. I was certainly surprised by comments from the Boston Globe's Bob Ryan and Peter Vecsey about the ABA having teams among the best 5 in basketball in the last few years before the merger.

The ABA's legacy is forgotten as well with trapping defenses, and the 3 point shot. Many ended up saying, the ABA won, because we are all now playing the ABA's game.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABA%E2%80%93NBA_merger

[Andrei89]

Kirby there?

Horrible post.

[kentatm]

http://i61.tinypic.com/29kua2u.png

theres no way the elite 7 can be cut down to 4.

these 7 guys represented their eras and carried the league as the biggest icons of all time.

nobody else ever came as close to the same level of popularity/success/fan worship



forget oscar.. he was big during his time. but he has no fallowers, doesnt transend generations and have any new fans

forget shaq and duncan. nobody liked them.

lebron might be added as the 8th man. but wait till atleast his later days when he can talk about legacy

:roll:

Kobe aint gonna be on no Rushmore over Shaq

[scm5]

Change Kobe with Duncan

Kobe, injured with 6 horrible games played this season gets voted into the ASG whereas Timmy is having a really good season can't even get in as a reserve.

Tell me which one belongs on NBA's Mt. Rushmore.

[ralph_i_el]

Kobe, injured with 6 horrible games played this season gets voted into the ASG whereas Timmy is having a really good season can't even get in as a reserve.

Tell me which one belongs on NBA's Mt. Rushmore.

This is the ****ing point:facepalm
casuals and LA homer bandwagon **** like Kobe
That doesn't make him any better as a player or teammate

[scm5]

This is the ****ing point:facepalm
casuals and LA homer bandwagon **** like Kobe
That doesn't make him any better as a player or teammate

... the point is that Kobe is much more influential and means much, much more to the game than Tim Duncan.

[jzek]

How is Kobe on there and not Shaq? Without Shaq, he'll only have 2 rings and not top 10 worthy.

[nightprowler10]

"The 6" obviously belong there, Kobe does not. He has made a great argument to be #7 but no way is he an automatic selection at #7. Dr. J, Duncan, and Shaq have just as good if not better arguments.

[MMM]

If you gonna do a Mt Rushmore why expand it to 7???
Doesn't OP have Kobe in the 4 all time anyways.

[MavsPoke]

****ing troll threads :hammerhead:

[kennethgriffin]

"The 6" obviously belong there, Kobe does not. He has made a great argument to be #7 but no way is he an automatic selection at #7. Dr. J, Duncan, and Shaq have just as good if not better arguments.


the morons saying kobe shouldnt be there


how many main era's were there?

russell/wilt 60's
kareem 70's
bird/magic 80's
jordan 90's
kobe 00's



well

Sporting News NBA Athlete of the Decade (2000s)[94]
TNT NBA Player of the Decade (2000s)[95]
Sports Illustrated Top 20 Male Athlete of the Decade (2000s) #7 (the only NBA player in the top 10)[97]
Ranked #1 in Dime Magazine's 2012 list of the top 10 greatest players since the year 2000 (published in the September 2012 issue)[99]


and

asside from being the player of his era. he was by far the most popular.


#1 in jersey sales around the world like 10 straight years?

a god in most countries





shaq and duncan might have been close in terms of achievements. but they werent iconic around the world and worshipped like kobe



kobe is arguably one of the top 4-5 faces.. i put 7 up there so people wouldnt be so pissy about it... every era is captured

but noooooooo... idiots on ISH want 10 other people in there ahead of kobe


- PUT WEST OVER KOBE!

- PUT OSCAR OVER KOBE!

- PUT SHAQ OVER KOBE!

- PUT DUNCAN OVER KOBE!

- PUT DR J OVER KOBE!

- PUT LEBRON OVER KOBE!

- PUT PEE WEE HERMAN OVER KOBE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm


yall so god damn butthurt about this subject..

i coulda put a mount rushmore of 10 people and there would still be some ignorant a** f*cks sayin kobe doesnt belong




drinkin that hater semen.. all of you. give it a rest

:biggums:

[scm5]

How is Kobe on there and not Shaq? Without Shaq, he'll only have 2 rings and not top 10 worthy.

Pretty sure we could safely assume that without Shaq, Kobe would have gotten more than 2 rings.

You can't just discount the years Kobe played with Shaq and count them as ZERO rings, same for the years Kobe played with a roster of LO, Luke, Kwame, Smush, etc... wasted years.

From what we know, the minute Kobe got another All-Star Big in Gasol, he was able to contend.

Example:

There were talks of Tim Duncan going to Orlando in 2000. Imagine if the Lakers were able to get Timmy to sign with LA. I'm assuming at least 3-4 Championships between them from 1999-07' as the Spurs/Lakers took 7 out of 8 championships during that time.

09' and 10' were gimme's for them, Kobe won with Pau during that time period, he sure as hell could win them with Duncan. 08' would be a likely win for the duo as well.

[gts]

Who's that old white man on the right? Did you leave one of the old presidents up? Is that Lincoln?
No Lincoln's on the left side between Morgan Freeman and Roger Murdock

[kennethgriffin]

go up to 100,000 people on the street.. ask them who the greatest and most iconic influential players of all time are

see if kobe doesnt make the top 5 in 99,900+ responses





this isnt the "ish lower end of the message board version of mount rushmore"


this is "THE mount rushmore"

[scm5]

Of the NBA's most influential players, Kobe is arguably Top 4.

MJ, Magic, and Bird are all on there for sure.

Kareem never had the fan support or influence other greats of his gravity had.

Russell and Wilt were pioneers of the game, and one of the two would most likely be included, if not both, possibly edging out Bird since Magic has had more influence.

Shaq I think killed his chances of being included because is known to be extremely dominant, but with a terrible work ethic and attitude towards the organizations he's belonged to. Ex. "i got hurt on company time, so i'll heal on company time". --- Not exactly the type of player you want representing the sport.

Duncan has the resume, but not the personality or the fan support. Case in point, Kobe in the ASG on his horrible season whereas Timmy didn't get in despite having a good season.

Kobe has the resume, fan support, and is widely respected amongst all present players and greats. There are stories of his work ethic that rivals MJ's and despite all the media hate on Kobe, almost all NBA players respect the hell out of him.

Kobe is definitely in the conversation, but even as a Laker fan, I wouldn't include him.

MJ - GOAT and almost all aspects of his career are the stuff made of legends.

Magic - GLOAT, showtime, resume, popularity, contribution to AIDS awareness, etc... it's hard to keep Magic off this list.

Russell - Pioneer of the game and the game's greatest champion. Won both as a champion and a coach and the perfect team player. A true winner... kind of like the George Washington of the NBA. Greatest Celtic player ever.

Bird - He has a strong resume, strong fan support, and is a true legend. He's known league wide as someone you don't want to mess with or bet against. Despite this, I think he's the one most likely to be knocked off one day since Russell is pretty much cemented as the greatest Celtic ever.

[T_L_P]

go up to 100,000 people on the street.. ask them who the greatest and most iconic influential players of all time are

see if kobe doesnt make the top 5 in 99,900+ responses

this isnt the "ish lower end of the message board version of mount rushmore"


this is "THE mount rushmore"


http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/post/_/id/10442887/your-nba-mount-rushmore

Plug in any 5 players to see the results.

The masses already think LeBron > Kobe...and Kobe is ranked 8th on this list

[senelcoolidge]

It was painful to hear skip and the other guy from first take. When someone omits Wilt Chamberlain than they don't know basketball. Lebron is a great player, sure he can be in the discussion. But when you have to team up purposely with two other All Stars to win than that's a negative not a positive.

[IMObjective]

AWESOME THREAD! kennethgriffen and tonymontana most iconic posters of ish history! seriously, those 2 are good, realgm sucks cuz there are no posters like them.

[kennethgriffin]

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/post/_/id/10442887/your-nba-mount-rushmore

Plug in any 5 players to see the results.

The masses already think LeBron > Kobe...and Kobe is ranked 8th on this list


lol who goes to espn asside from lebron fan boys and kobe haters.

i stopped going a long time ago due to their take over on that site


thats like asking "which religion is #1" on fox.com



notice how lebron is #7 and kobe is #8

lol if that doesnt tell you whats up.. i dunno what does.

[alexd]

um.. no

he was very influential.. but kobe opened up the doors to fans world wide that worship the guy like hes god

i dont think 4 billion chinese people were killing themselves over julius erving back in the day
you forget that back then there was no internet no worldwide coverage of the NBA etc.dr j made white people accept black persons.he taught many black players that you can play ball and still have a class.you don t have to be a thug.everyone back in the day wanted to be dr.j
dr.j>Kobe in terms of influence and its not even close

[Solefade]

lol who goes to espn asside from lebron fan boys and kobe haters.

i stopped going a long time ago due to their take over on that site


thats like asking "which religion is #1" on fox.com



notice how lebron is #7 and kobe is #8

lol if that doesnt tell you whats up.. i dunno what does.


seems pretty accurate to me :confusedshrug:

[Odinn]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=280822
I guess that thread wasn't good enough for OP.

[Leftimage]

http://i61.tinypic.com/29kua2u.png

theres no way the elite 7 can be cut down to 4.

these 7 guys represented their eras and carried the league as the biggest icons of all time.

nobody else ever came as close to the same level of popularity/success/fan worship



forget oscar.. he was big during his time. but he has no fallowers, doesnt transend generations and have any new fans

forget shaq and duncan. nobody liked them.

lebron might be added as the 8th man. but wait till atleast his later days when he can talk about legacy

Kobe sticks out like a sore thumb. Does not belong.

[Big#50]

Troll thread, but so are the rest of the threads in the first page.
OP and the rest of the Kobe creepers are confusing influential with the word popular. Kobe isn't influential, but he was one of the most popular players in the league. He plays for the Lakers. You creepers don't ever mention that.
Dr.J was more influential than Kobe ever was. Kobe is just the next Dr.J. Then came MJ. Kobe never took it to another level. He was just the next.
4 billion fans? China. Guess they missed that YAO guy while slurping Kobe juice.
Iverson was the most influential player after Jordan. There was nobody like AI before. Dude was a pothead, a thug, a moron, and because of him the nba has a dress code now. Stupid as it sounds. He made the NBA what it is now. He played the biggest part. Not the way it should be, but he did, even if it was bad.
Hate to use the word swag, but AI brought it back to the league. DR.J had it in the 70's.
What did Kobe influence? He plays for the Lakers. The LAKERS.

[moe94]

Kobe sticks out like a sore thumb. Does not belong.
:roll: