Now that Kobe's pretty much done, did he pass Magic as the greatest Laker of alltime?

[Keno]

Serious discussion. No trolls allowed.

Both have 5 rings, Magic has 3x Finals MVPs (one more than Kobe), he won one in his rookie year when Kareem went down. Magic has 2 more MVPs than Kobe.

IMO Magic is the still the GOAT Laker.

[gts]

3rd time in 2 weeks... try something original

[Magic 32]

No trolls allowed.


Too late for that.

[Keno]

3rd time in 2 weeks... try something original

What?

[T_L_P]

Magic is still the greatest Laker.

Showtime is more recognisable than any Kobe-type team, and Magic won those 5 rings, 3 Finals MVPs, and 3 MVPs in only 13 seasons (12 seasons really).

[imdaman99]

No trolls allowed.

Too late for that.

[Jameerthefear]

Nope.

[tpols]

http://www.sportsgrid.com/nba/is-kobe-the-best-laker-ever-jerry-west-and-magic-johnson-think-so/

[QUOTE]

[KyrieTheFuture]

Absolutely not. Magic and honestly Kareem are better. Kareem you can argue, Magic is just a fact.

[retaxis]

Absolutely. His achievements considering the events that happened are far more incredible then Kobe's achievements. Imagine if Kobe came into the league and won the FMVP that first year.

Both players had times when they played poorly as well in the finals e.g. Magic against Celtics and Kobe against Suns etc but yes Magic's career including that first year was once in a a life time.

[tpols]

Absolutely not. Magic and honestly Kareem are better. Kareem you can argue, Magic is just a fact.
Except Jerry West says the opposite..


Whose opinion is worth more on the matter? The man whose watched the entirety of both careers or you.. a 20 yr old kid most likely on a basketball message board who never even saw Magic play?

[Keno]

Absolutely not. Magic and honestly Kareem are better. Kareem you can argue, Magic is just a fact.

I didn't include Kareem because he's never been with LAL his whole career. It's very arguable though, I agree.

[NumberSix]

Kobe has no case. Gameplay, accolades or a combination. Magic wins every possible criteria.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Except Jerry West says the opposite..


Whose opinion is worth more on the matter? The man whose watched the entirety of both careers or you.. a 20 yr old kid most likely on a basketball message board who never even saw Magic play?


Bingo

[DonDadda59]

Greatest Lakers scorer, maybe.

[Keno]

Everything Magic says to the media you must take with a grain of salt. We've seen his commentaries, half-time shows, etc, he's terrible.

[Jameerthefear]

Greatest Lakers scorer, maybe.
Big maybe too. Especially with Kareem in the equation.

[Heavincent]

I'm gonna have to agree with West, Magic, and Shaq on this one.

[TheMarkMadsen]

I'm gonna have to agree with West, Magic, and Shaq on this one.


Nah man why take the word of guys like Jerry West, Shaq & Magic when we have great basketball minds like Keno & Anime boy?

[Magic 32]

1. Magic
2. Kobe
3. Kareem
4. Shaq
5. West

[Uncle Drew]

1. Magic
2. Kobe
3. Kareem
4. Shaq
5. West
No love for Mikan?

[DonDadda59]

Big maybe too. Especially with Kareem in the equation.

I meant strictly as Lakers, disregarding their previous stints (ie, Kareem in Milwaukee, Wilt in Philly, etc)

Lakers career PPG

Kareem 22.1 PPG (57%)
Wilt 17.7 (61%)
West 27 PPG (47%)
Baylor 27.4 PPG (43%)
Shaq 27 PPG (58%)
Kobe 25.5 PPG (45%)

[T_L_P]

You guys agree with Magic when it favors Kobe but call his opinion worthless when he omits him on his list of 'Great Ones' :oldlol:

You can't trust anything Magic says regarding this topic; he may just be showing humility (as Jordan did when he was asked whether he was the greatest to ever play).

[Mure]

Kobe is the third greatest Laker behind KAJ and Magic. Shaq and Wilt we're obviously better players, but Kobe being with them so long puts him ahead of them.

[TheMilkyBarKid]

Better lakers = magic
Better players to play for the lakers = shaq, kareem, magic & wilt

[TheMilkyBarKid]

Kobe is the third greatest Laker behind KAJ and Magic. Shaq and Wilt we're obviously better players, but Kobe being with them so long puts him ahead of them.
Posted at the same time and a nearly identical opinion :cheers:

[Magic 32]

No love for Mikan?

Not really.

I would pick Baylor and Worthy over him.

http://www.latimes.com/includes/projects/img/lakers/season_photos/season_1950_1951.jpg

[Cold soul]

http://www.sportsgrid.com/nba/is-kobe-the-best-laker-ever-jerry-west-and-magic-johnson-think-so/

:applause:

I have Kobe as GOAT Laker but I have no problem with anyone picking Magic.

[moe94]

Nah man why take the word of guys like Jerry West, Shaq & Magic when we have great basketball minds like Keno & Anime boy?

That's a silly argument and you should understand why. :coleman:

[AintNoSunshine]

Greatest Lakers scorer, maybe.


Sorry not even that, Kareem?

Even Shaq was way more of a unstoppable scoring force in his 3peat days

[DonDadda59]

Sorry not even that, Kareem?

Even Shaq was way more of a unstoppable scoring force in his 3peat days

Oh well, Bean. I'd tried.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lcqmkfZNN91qas4t2.gif

[Black and White]

OPs trolling is really boring, hes on SavageMode/ispin69 level boring.

The answer is maybe, him and Magic are 1a/1b, you could make a case for both ahead of the other, there is no question that Kobe is an icon for the Lakers.

[Keno]

OPs trolling is really boring, hes on SavageMode/ispin69 level boring.

The answer is maybe, him and Magic are 1a/1b, you could make a case for both ahead of the other, there is no question that Kobe is an icon for the Lakers.

Adding intelligent discussions to a nba forum is considered boring, apparently.

[freshperry]

I think magic is the GOAT laker but i definately believe these are one of those things that just change over time. Maybe in 50 yrs some people will rank kobe over magic. I heard that during their playing time bird was always consisdered better then magic but nowadays if you ask people for their top 5, magic is usually above bird.

[the mesiah]

Magic transcended the game and made lakers basketball games an event.he took the WHOLE west coast by storm and had that charisma unlike any other.too many "IFS" with kobe to be in that discussion .

[Keno]

We also have a thread on the front page that says does "KG look like a tree", but my thread is worthless, right?

:facepalm

[retaxis]

Asking people to rank people is never intelligent. Its more childish actually because it signifies an inability to appreciate greatness so they rather judge based on various factors in order to develop an understanding through stereotyping.

[BlackVVaves]

Kareem and Magic were both better players than Kobe. However, when it comes to being the great Laker, I'd say Kobe is a very close second to Magic (if not ahead of him). Not only does he come close in accolades, but also in sales, and marketing and stuff. Kobe could fill 500 arena's in Asia just by sitting on a chair.

I agree with this.

Opinion may change as time transpires and fans and analysts alike sensationalize Kobe's many great feats. But right now, seeing as how Kobe's best days are behind him, from a career standpoint I think Magic's was more illustrious (those MVPs will do that).

However, it is very close. Both meant ALOT to the NBA and their endeavors to expand the NBA internationally - Magic with the Dream Team, Kobe with his assertion as the #1 NBA star abroad with his establishment in China's booming market. Both helped restore the Lakers back to national prominence after an extended drought of mediocrity, and both proved they could succeed without the All Time great big men that accompanied them from the start of their career with the Lakers (Though Magic didnt win a ring, he took that 91 team to the Finals, and possibly adds #6 if his best scoring options (Worthy and Byron) weren't hampered by injuries.)

So indeed, it's very close. I'd vote for Magic right now, but I've admittingly flip flopped on the subject over the years. Having grown up in California during the 80s/90s, I'm fond of the nostalgia that Magic's play stirs, and yet I think if you asked alot of Californians today, they'd tell you Kobe means more to LA as a city right now than Magic (which, considering the success Magic has had as an entrepreneur post-career, would be slighting erroneous).

[MMM]

Kobe might be the best Laker player along with Magic but I think Overall it is Jerry West. His role as an executive with the team and success on and off the court make him the greatest Laker.

[JohnFreeman]

Magic will always be the greatest Laker

[Jameerthefear]

I'd rank it like this:
1. Magic
2. KAJ
3. Shaq
4. West
5. Kobe/Dwight

[miles berg]

4th best after Magic, Shaq, & Kareem.

[sportjames23]

No trolls allowed.




Too late for that.

[moe94]

I'd rank it like this:
1. Magic
2. KAJ
3. Shaq
4. West
5. Kobe/Dwight

Howard was a nice touch. Having him together with Kobe is too much. :lol

[sportjames23]

I'd rank it like this:
1. Magic
2. KAJ
3. Shaq
4. West
5. Kobe/Dwight


Da fuq?

Dwight didn't do jack shit as a Laker.

I have Worthy, Baylor, Scott, Wilkes, Green and McAdo as some of the greatest Lakers. Dwight wouldn't even sniff that list.

[Smoke117]

Longevity wise Kobe might get the edge, but Magic had the better peak and more impressive prime.

[moe94]

Da fuq?

Dwight didn't do jack shit as a Laker.

I have Worthy, Baylor, Scott, Wilkes, Green and McAdo as some of the greatest Lakers. Dwight wouldn't even sniff that list.

No Gasol? :biggums:

[KyrieTheFuture]

Except Jerry West says the opposite..


Whose opinion is worth more on the matter? The man whose watched the entirety of both careers or you.. a 20 yr old kid most likely on a basketball message board who never even saw Magic play?
Sorry I'm struggling to get through the terrible sentence structure in this post.

I'm sorry you struggle so much with people disagreeing with you. Are we gonna sit here and pretend Jerry West is infallible? He's entitled to his beliefs and I'm entitled to mine. Instead of directing attention towards me, defend your position.

[tpols]

Sorry I'm struggling to get through the terrible sentence structure in this post.

I'm sorry you struggle so much with people disagreeing with you. Are we gonna sit here and pretend Jerry West is infallible? He's entitled to his beliefs and I'm entitled to mine. Instead of directing attention towards me, defend your position.

Jerry West aint perfect.. of course. His opinion does however hold infinitely more weight than yours and mine and anyone else commenting here that did not exist when one of the players in the comparison played ball.

Read the article.. it gives way more insight than you did and its an extremely informed opinon.

[sportjames23]

No Gasol? :biggums:


My bad. Yeah, Gasol's on that list, too.

[IllegalD]

The one that actually played elite defense and made numerous all defensive first teams. The one that's won 5 rings while only having ONE other HOF by his side for all rings, instead of multiple HOFs. The one who was able to win again as the man after losing his GOAT-candidate/Superstar center teammate. That's the greatest Laker of all time.

Not the one that cut his career short by not wrapping his willie.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Huh, no.

Magic's cleary higher on most people's lists (people who know their shit, not stans, at least) and they both spent their careers as Lakers so.. Magic had a better peak too.
No beef with calling Kobe the 2nd greatest Lakers though I may not exactly agree, but dudes like Shaq, Kareem or Wilt didn't spend their entire careers there.

[Stringer Bell]

You guys agree with Magic when it favors Kobe but call his opinion worthless when he omits him on his list of 'Great Ones' :oldlol:

You can't trust anything Magic says regarding this topic; he may just be showing humility (as Jordan did when he was asked whether he was the greatest to ever play).

Yeah, I don't believe Magic for a second that he truly means it when he says "Jordan was the greatest ever" or "Kobe is the greatest Laker ever".

He probably thinks he's the greatest ever, and that goes for pretty much all the greatest players ever.

Jordan, Magic, Kareem, Wilt, Kobe, etc.....I don't believe any of them truly in their heart believes "yeah that guy was better than me".

[Bob Dole]

It doesn't freaking matter if jerry west, Shaq, or god himself says that Kobe is better. You judge the argument not who said it. That's why I rarely even argue with idiots like mark madden. Below is your flaw and no, Kobe is lucky if he's top 5 lakers ever.


appeal to authority
You said that because an authority thinks something, it must therefore be true.
It's important to note that this fallacy should not be used to dismiss the claims of experts, or scientific consensus. Appeals to authority are not valid arguments, but nor is it reasonable to disregard the claims of experts who have a demonstrated depth of knowledge unless one has a similar level of understanding and/or access to empirical evidence. However it is, entirely possible that the opinion of a person or institution of authority is wrong; therefore the authority that such a person or institution holds does not have any intrinsic bearing upon whether their claims are true or not.
Example: Not able to defend his position that evolution 'isn't true' Bob says that he knows a scientist who also questions evolution (and presumably isn't a primate).

[tpols]

You said that because an authority thinks something, it must therefore be true.
.
No.. theres no such thing as an absolute truth in this discussion. Its literally impossible to claim something is a 'fact' when judging two highly decorated careers in totality.

I never claimed anything as fact.. the person I replied to, however did.

I simply gave the opinion of a person 1000x more qualified to speak on this matter than you or anyone else who never even saw one of the players being discussed play. West's word is not fact nor absolute.. just an opinion that is rooted in far more knowledge and experience


If a laker fan whose been following the team since the 80s gave his insight it would hold a lot of weight too.. but teenagers just spouting off? Nah..

[Bob Dole]

No.. theres no such thing as an absolute truth in this discussion. Its literally impossible to claim something is a 'fact' when judging two highly decorated careers in totality.

I never claimed anything as fact.. the person I quoted, however did.

I simply gave the opinion of a person 1000x more qualified to speak on this matter than you or anyone else who never even saw one of the players being discussed play. West's word is not fact nor absolute.. just an opinion that is rooted in more knowledge and experience than someone who has basically none.

The fallacy means judge the damn argument and not who said it. Especially dealing with basketball knowledge which is no where near a science.

And I don't know if you said it or one of the other laker fanboys but essentially were dismissing arguments because it differed from some quotes.

Hell NBA players arguments are going to differ. I hear them say blatantly wrong things all the time. Their opinions mean little more than me than a knowledgeable fan.

[Stringer Bell]

And I don't know if you said it or one of the other laker fanboys but essentially were dismissing arguments because it differed from some quotes.

Hell NBA players arguments are going to differ. I hear them say blatantly wrong things all the time. Their opinions mean little more than me than a knowledgeable fan.

I agree.

2 NBA players might have different opinions on a certain comparison. Can't really use the "well he knows more than you" argument, both of them do.

Sometimes athletes say weird things and have weird opinions too. George Foreman knows more about boxing than me, but does anyone think that Shane Mosley was intimidated by the leopard trunks of Adrian Stone, or that Pierre Coetzer deserved to be the heavyweight champion "because of his love for mankind"?

Robert Horry talked about the greatness of Kobe and Duncan, and said Kobe was better because he was more exciting and sold more tickets than Duncan.

[SexSymbol]

1a 1b, anybody arguing that would be biased.

[JohnFreeman]

Really depends what the criteria is.
Kobe is by far the most popular Laker in terms of fans worldwide. You can't ignore what Kareem and Magic did though.

[boozehound]

nope, definitely not. He doesnt pass magic, kareem, mikan,or west in my mind. or, really, shaq. so, hes probably the 6th greatest laker of all time. Pretty damn good.

[Ancient Legend]

Serious discussion. No trolls allowed.

Both have 5 rings, Magic has 3x Finals MVPs (one more than Kobe), he won one in his rookie year when Kareem went down. Magic has 2 more MVPs than Kobe.

IMO Magic is the still the GOAT Laker.

Magic also played in 9 finals out of his 12 full years in the NBA, while Kobe has played in 7 out of 17.

[DMAVS41]

Kobe is not done by any means yet, but Magic is GOAT Laker

[I<3NBA]

Kobe is the greatest Laker ever, know why?

eye test. now shut the **** up. the eye test is always correct.

[SpecialQue]

The further away we move from the 80s, the more this dumb-ass topic will rear it's ugly head. Magic and Bird revitalized the NBA, and paved the way for Jordan becoming an icon. Kareem was great, but Magic brought championships back to LA. You don't just ignore someone who changed an entire team's culture and dominated the west for a decade.

[alec613]

Can't decide who's the better Laker ever, I'd like to say Magic, but I didn't grow up watching him. Part of me also thinks that people love to overrate Magic now because 2 decades is a long wait, and all people who mention him only talk or remember about the positive things about him, and his HIV scare, and sometimes his defense, which wasn't good by the way

[fragokota]

I think Magic is the greatest Laker still

[gts]

If a laker fan whose been following the team since the 80s gave his insight it would hold a lot of weight too.. but teenagers just spouting off? Nah..
I'm one of those people and I have Kobe over Magic... If you look at everything, longevity, stats, accolades, fan base world wide audience etc etc etc Kobe is the greatest Laker ever... That multi billion dollar TV deal was built on Kobe's back

If somebody wants to say it's a 1a 1b deal or a toss up I can live with that but anyone who says it's clearly Magic didn't live through the era or they're talking out their ass

People might mention how many times Magic's Lakers 9 trips to the finals.. meh... Back then the West was like the East is now, very weak other than one or two teams in any given year.. To not make the finals back then was a bad season.... Add those 80's Lakers teams were hyper loaded with talent... Not many PGs in the history of the game had that kind of talent around them to draw from

[Rooster]

I'm one of those people and I have Kobe over Magic... If you look at everything, longevity, stats, accolades, fan base world wide audience etc etc etc Kobe is the greatest Laker ever... That multi billion dollar TV deal was built on Kobe's back

If somebody wants to say it's a 1a 1b deal or a toss up I can live with that but anyone who says it's clearly Magic didn't live through the era or they're talking out their ass

People might mention how many times Magic's Lakers 9 trips to the finals.. meh... Back then the West was like the East is now, very weak other than one or two teams in any given year.. To not make the finals back then was a bad season.... Add those 80's Lakers teams were hyper loaded with talent... Not many PGs in the history of the game had that kind of talent around them to draw from

I am with you, I also think Kobe is GOAT Laker just like what Jerry West said. It was easy to build a team during those Magic era that's why Lakers were able to have a loaded lineup. No cap restrictions and no luxury taxes. But I would Not argue if people say Magic as the GOAT Laker. He has the accolades and rings too. I just give the edge to Kobe because he was great at both ends.

[Vienceslav]

No, he's number 7, a case could be made for Worthy and Fisher.

1.Magic
2.West
3.KAJ
4.Shaq
5.Gasol
6.Mikan
7.Kobe

[sc19]

There's no reason that Kobe should ever be over Magic.

[HOoopCityJones]

Kobe has the edge on Magic cause of longevity alone.

They're tied in rings.

Not to mention defense, shooting and scoring streaks Magic could only dream about.

Only places he's better is rebounds and assists.

[Black and White]

No, he's number 7, a case could be made for Worthy and Fisher.

1.Magic
2.West
3.KAJ
4.Shaq
5.Gasol
6.Mikan
7.Kobe

You are a massive idiot

[NumberSix]

Kobe has the edge on Magic cause of longevity alone.

They're tied in rings.

Not to mention defense, shooting and scoring streaks Magic could only dream about.

Only places he's better is rebounds and assists.
Both have 5 rings. Magic has more fmvps and mvps and is universally recognized as a better player.

There's nothing to discuss.

[rhythmic]

I pick Kobe, and have had him at #1 right after LAST season.
I'm sorry maybe it's me but last year defined Kobe for me. Everything I loved about his competitiveness resurrected for me last season. This guy has put MILES on his body already, to take over a completely dysfunctional team (who were 11 or 12 games below .500) and carry them to one of the better records post All-Star break was incredible to watch. The countless insane games he put up, but most importantly the amount of clutch shots he hit for his age really made it clear to me.

Do I think Kobe is better than Magic? Probably Not.
Do I think Kobe is a better leader? Nope.
But I do think Kobe's 17 year career for the LAKERS puts him ahead of Magic's 12 years. We all know Kobe is getting his statue in LA after he retires, he's a 1st ballot HOF and he's also a 5 time champion. He is a better scorer and defender than Magic was, while Magic was obviously the better playmaker.

People also have underrated Kobe's career because he played with Shaquille for a number of years and won 3 titles; but yet (mainly on this forum) there are no reservation from people to notify everyone how Magic has 5 titles and 9 final appearances in 12 years. Guess what? His teams were MORE stacked than ANY single team Kobe was on his ENTIRE career.

Due to Kobe's longevity and more aesthetically pleasing overall skill set, I give him the nod. If we were to compare their best 12 years (which is how long Magic played), then I'd pick Magic. But Kobe brought to many great memories over these 17 years (and still counting) for me not to consider him the GOAT Laker.

[NumberSix]

You are a massive idiot
The only bad choice is gasol. The rest are pretty reasonable.

[Black and White]

The only bad choice is gasol. The rest are pretty reasonable.

Not if you look at longevity.

[HOoopCityJones]

Both have 5 rings. Magic has more fmvps and mvps and is universally recognized as a better player.

There's nothing to discuss.

Ni99a you're a walking agenda :oldlol:

You don't have an objective bone in your body.

[ImKobe]

Lakers legend Jerry West summed up his feelings about Kobe, via USA Today:

[QUOTE]

[NumberSix]

Not if you look at longevity.
Remember when Kobe fans used to talk all day about rings, FMVPs, clutch, and a bunch of other shit? What do they talk about now? Lol. Longevity. It's their last possible card they are desperately clinging to, and it's a weak one.

[funnystuff]

No, he's number 7, a case could be made for Worthy and Fisher.

1.Magic
2.West
3.KAJ
4.Shaq
5.Gasol
6.Mikan
7.Kobe
I wouldn't put Mikan over Kobe, thats a bit much. But I guess I can see a case for Gasol.

[HOoopCityJones]

Remember when Kobe fans used to talk all day about rings, FMVPs, clutch, and a bunch of other shit? What do they talk about now? Lol. Longevity. It's their last possible card, and it's a weak one.

Remember when Bron fans said FMVP's and Rings didn't matter? :lol

There's double standards all around the Hoops community son.

[NumberSix]

I wouldn't put Mikan over Kobe, thats a bit much. But I guess I can see a case for Gasol.
5 rings as THE MAN. what the fcuk does Kobe have to compare to that?

[Black and White]

Remember when Kobe fans used to talk all day about rings, FMVPs, clutch, and a bunch of other shit? What do they talk about now? Lol. Longevity. It's their last possible card they are desperately clinging to, and it's a weak one.

If you take into account his rings then he goes above Shaq and ties Kareem anyway. Whats your point?

[NumberSix]

Remember when Bron fans said FMVP's and Rings didn't matter? :lol

There's double standards all around the Hoops community son.
The conversation is about Kobe. We're just using the criteria they themselves deem valuable.

Sounds like a plan, daughter.

[tpols]

I'm one of those people and I have Kobe over Magic... If you look at everything, longevity, stats, accolades, fan base world wide audience etc etc etc Kobe is the greatest Laker ever... That multi billion dollar TV deal was built on Kobe's back

If somebody wants to say it's a 1a 1b deal or a toss up I can live with that but anyone who says it's clearly Magic didn't live through the era or they're talking out their ass

People might mention how many times Magic's Lakers 9 trips to the finals.. meh... Back then the West was like the East is now, very weak other than one or two teams in any given year.. To not make the finals back then was a bad season.... Add those 80's Lakers teams were hyper loaded with talent... Not many PGs in the history of the game had that kind of talent around them to draw from
:cheers:

[Ancient Legend]

5 rings as THE MAN. what the fcuk does Kobe have to compare to that?

And Magic also has more MVPs and played in more finals. And one factor that gets lost is Magic is the all time leader in APG, while Kobe's best asset is scoring and he is second in PPG to Jerry West.

[HOoopCityJones]

Magic is the all time leader in APG. Kobe is the all-time leader in nothing, not averages or totals.

You sure?

[NumberSix]

If you take into account his rings then he goes above Shaq and ties Kareem anyway. Whats your point?
Shaq won his rings as the man. Pippen rings don't hold the same value as Jodan rings.

Shaq as a laker has 3 Jordan rings 3 FMVPsand an MVP

Kobe has 2 Jordan rings, 2 FMVPs and a MVP.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Not sure you can rank Kobe ahead of Magic (as a Laker) without doing so on an all time scale. :confusedshrug:

[Black and White]

Shaq won his rings as the man. Pippen rings don't hold the same value as Jodan rings.

Shaq as a laker has 3 Jordan rings 3 FMVPsand an MVP

Kobe has 2 Jordan rings, 2 FMVPs and a MVP.

:facepalm Whatever fits your agenda I guess, but hey dont let the amount of points he has scored as a Laker, how many years he has been a Laker, and carrying the franchise take away from how good Gasol is

[ImKobe]

Kobe holds the Lakers records for most games & seasons played, most points scored, most steals and most field goals made in a single season. Also 2nd most assists & steals as a Laker and he's 4th in total blocks.

Greatest Laker of all-time. As in the greatest player on the greatest franchise in NBA history.

[tpols]

Not sure you can rank Kobe ahead of Magic (as a Laker) without doing so on an all time scale. :confusedshrug:

Being the Greatest Laker ever has more to do with what you did for the franchise and less to do with how good you were.. while all time lists put a big premium on peak play.

[NumberSix]

Kobe holds the Lakers records for most games & seasons played, most points scored, most steals and most field goals made in a single season. Also 2nd most assists & steals as a Laker and he's 4th in total blocks.

Greatest Laker of all-time. As in the greatest player on the greatest franchise in NBA history.
Mind of a Kobe stan..... It's all about volume.

[Rooster]

Shaq won his rings as the man. Pippen rings don't hold the same value as Jodan rings.

Shaq as a laker has 3 Jordan rings 3 FMVPsand an MVP

Kobe has 2 Jordan rings, 2 FMVPs and a MVP.

Your criteria suggests that Bill Russell was the absolute GOAT

[NumberSix]

Being the Greatest Laker ever has more to do with what you did for the franchise and less to do with how good you were.. while all time lists put a big premium on peak play.
This is exactly why Jerry West is by leaps and bounds by far the greatest Laker.

[HOoopCityJones]

Mind of a Kobe stan..... It's all about volume.

I bet you have a % sign tattooed. :confusedshrug:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Being the Greatest Laker ever has more to do with what you did for the franchise and less to do with how good you were.. while all time lists put a big premium on peak play.

Says who? And if that's the case, Jerry West is the greatest Laker.

[tpols]

Says who? And if that's the case, Jerry West is the greatest Laker.

He has a strong case:confusedshrug:

[NumberSix]

Your criteria suggests that Bill Russell was the absolute GOAT
How?

[rhythmic]

5 rings as THE MAN. what the fcuk does Kobe have to compare to that?

This is why I love this retarded forum so much.
We'll be quick to downgrade Kobe's 5 championships to 2 because he played with Shaquille, but we'll blindly say Magic was the best player for ALL five of his titles (which includes his rookie year). :roll:

Hey morons, would you give credit to Kobe for winning a ring as the man if for the entire season Shaquille was clearly the best player on the team but got injured in the finals and Kobe played brilliantly and won the title for a few games without Shaq?

Of course not, you'd never give him credit...so why the **** give Magic that credit even though everyone knows KAJ was the best player for 1 or possibly 2 of those 5 titles. I'm sorry idiots, but KAJ was clearly the best Laker when Magic won his first 2 titles. Magic didn't even average double digit in assists than. Yes, Magic played center and won against the 76ers without KAJ, but one game should not define the ENTIRE season. KAJ was the leader and the best player in 79-80' & 80-81' seasons.

Plus, Magic as the best player had WAY better teammates anyhow. Unless you guys think Odom/Fisher/Gasol were better than the stacked team Magic had in the 80's? :oldlol:

I just love the double standards against Kobe on this forum.
So pathetic and funny at the same time.

[Rooster]

How?

He has more rings than anyone else as the Man right?

[I<3NBA]

Kobe holds the Lakers records for most games & seasons played, most points scored, most steals and most field goals made in a single season. Also 2nd most assists & steals as a Laker and he's 4th in total blocks.

Greatest Laker of all-time. As in the greatest player on the greatest franchise in NBA history.
Kobe is a rapist. by that measure alone, he is disqualified from being the greatest in anything (except apparently, raping)

[NumberSix]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[rhythmic]

Kobe as the man (2 titles).
Gasol, Odom, Fisher, Ariza/Artest

Magic as the man (3 titles).
KAJ, Wilkes, Nixon, Cooper, Kupchak, McAdoo
KAJ, Worthy, Scott, Cooper, McGee, McAdoo
Worthy, KAJ, Scott, Green, Cooper, M. Thompson

The difference in talent is staggering.
You have KAJ & Worthy who are arguably better than Pau Gasol, than guys like Cooper and Green who were prolific defenders. Guys like Scott & Nixon were way better than anything Fisher, Ariza or Artest brought to the table.

I mean lets compare context people.

[HOoopCityJones]

:lol This dude keeps on flipflopping.

[NumberSix]

The funny thing is, I actually think Kobe was a better player than Magic.

[rhythmic]

Here's where you fail.

I agree. Magic was the 2nd best player for 3 of his 5 titles. That puts his titles on exactly equal ground as Kobe. The whole rings argument is a wash and irrelevant.

Magic has more MVPs and is universally regarded as a better player. There's nothing left to discuss. What's Kobe's argument? He was a worse player, but for a few years longer?

I think Magic is better than Kobe. But the title of the thread is not asking me that. It's asking me whether Kobe achieved more as a Laker than Magic has.

Yes, in my opinion he has edged Magic already.
Plus, MVP's are easily the worst way to compare careers anyhow.
Is Nash better than Shaquille O'Neal to you?
Is M. Malone better than Duncan & Hakeem? I mean he has 3 MVPs to Hakeem's 1? :rolleyes:

[NumberSix]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[J Shuttlesworth]

Magic is greater because he changed the game. He set the standard for great point guards. Magic has Kobe beat on FMVPs, but he's also an innovator, unlike Kobe.

[NumberSix]

Magic is greater because he changed the game. He set the standard for great point guards. Magic has Kobe beat on FMVPs, but he's also an innovator, unlike Kobe.
Copy Bryant

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I think Magic is better than Kobe. But the title of the thread is not asking me that. It's asking me whether Kobe achieved more as a Laker than Magic has


If we're not mixing "better" and "achieved more" then let's apply it across the board.


Magic achieved: 5 rings, 3 MVPs and 3 FMVPs.
Kobe achieved: 5 rings, 1 MVP and 2 FMVPs.


There's no matter of opinion about it. Magic has more achievements.

http://www.pbh2.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/sports-fails-gifs-touchdown.gif

[SexSymbol]

Kobe is acknowledged as the greatest laker ever by: Jerry West, Shaq, Magic himself.
There's nothing else to discuss, when somebody says that somebody is better than him at a competitive sport, discussion ends there.

[rhythmic]

If we're not mixing "better" and "achieved more" then let's apply it across the board.


Magic achieved: 5 rings, 3 MVPs and 3 FMVPs.
Kobe achieved: 5 rings, 1 MVP and 2 FMVPs.


There's no matter of opinion about it. Magic has more achievements.

No he doesn't.
You're just highlighting accolades that Magic has more of than Kobe.

31,700 points, 5,925 assists, 6,601 rebounds - career stats
5,640 points, 1,040 assists, 1,119 rebounds - playoff stats

15 All-Star selections
1 MVP
2 FMVP
7 NBA final appearances
5 Championships
11 1st team All-NBA
9 1st team All-defense

17,707 points, 10,141 assists, 6,559 rebounds - career stats
3,701 points, 2,346 assists, 1,456 rebounds - playoff stats

12 All-Star selections
3 MVP
3 FMVP
9 NBA final appearances
5 Championships
9 1st team All-NBA
0 1st team All-Defense

Both are the two best Lakers of All-Time, I just give Kobe the edge because of his longevity. One was an all-around aesthetically pleasing shooting guard with an amazing skill set and the work ethic few possess; the other was the greatest point guard of all-time with the greatest court vision and creativity as a play-maker we've ever seen... both are winners in my book. There are things Magic is better at and there are things Kobe is better at.

[secund2nun]

Magic Kareem Shaq Wilt West are all better than Kobe.

[SexSymbol]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[rhythmic]

what? KAJ is arguably better than Gasol?
Worthy's probably a better player too

Well, I think Pau was pretty great for Kobe.
I'm talking about when Kareem became the undisputed 2nd option. But yeah, come to think of it he was still clearly better. :oldlol: And Worthy too.
Heck, James Worthy would have been a top 5-7 player in the league during 2008/2009 seasons. He was so incredibly underrated.

[T_L_P]

Kobe is acknowledged as the greatest laker ever by: Jerry West, Shaq, Magic himself.
There's nothing else to discuss, when somebody says that somebody is better than him at a competitive sport, discussion ends there.

Jordan is no longer the GOAT?

[SexSymbol]

Jordan is no longer the GOAT?
You participate in quite a few non-troll threads, it's kind of a shock to now realize that you think Jordan played for the Lakers.

[SexSymbol]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[hawksdogsbraves]

Kobe is acknowledged as the greatest laker ever by: Jerry West, Shaq, Magic himself.
There's nothing else to discuss, when somebody says that somebody is better than him at a competitive sport, discussion ends there.

No it doesn't. Just because someone's a great player doesn't make them a great analyst. Plus you have to take anything Magic says with a grain of salt.

[kennethgriffin]

kobe is a better scorer and defender.. magic never played defense.

magic is a better passer and rebounder. thats about it.

kobe had every skill on the court. magic didnt

magic only played 13 years.. kobes gonna play 20 years

same rings

kobe won with 1 HOF'r at a time... and arguably no nba HOF'r for 2 rings and 3 straight finals..

gasol might make the HOF on international+nba .. but hes barely top 100 all time



magic however had

- HOF'r Kareem abdul jabbar
- HOF'r James Worthy
- HOF'r Jamaal Wilkes
- HOF'r Bob Mcadoo
- soon to be HOF'r ( defensive legend ) michael cooper
- possible HOF'r ( leading assists on 1980 title team ) allstar norm nixon



gasol ? common...


kobe > magic

[kennethgriffin]

give kobe the 80's lakers roster. he wins 10 rings

[I<3NBA]

give kobe the 80's lakers roster. he wins 10 rings
no. give Kobe that roster, that roster breaks up and hardly wins 2 rings.

[TheMilkyBarKid]

give kobe the 80's lakers roster. he wins 10 rings
Are you saying kobe could run that offense better than magic?
I see kobe getting his own points but not sharing it around so well, they still win a few on talent, but not 5 & bird would go 3-0 against kobe unless kareem dominates.

[Mure]

Magic>Kobe and it isn't close.

[longtime lurker]

When you consider the greatest Laker to ever suit up Kobe has a strong case. Considering the accomplishments, titles, team records, NBA records etc I could see why Kobe could be over Magic when it's all said and done. Nothing wrong with saying Magic was the better player as a Laker but that doesn't make him the greatest Laker ever.

[Simple Jack]

Except Jerry West says the opposite..


Whose opinion is worth more on the matter? The man whose watched the entirety of both careers or you.. a 20 yr old kid most likely on a basketball message board who never even saw Magic play?

Do you understand how stupid this logic is? You can literally pull hundreds of expert quotes and opinions for either side and use the same "well they know the game better than some dude on the internet" BS. Stop acting like it's some excellent argument when it can just as easily be used to disprove any opinion you've made on the sport.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Its a tossup IMO
Magic is the most overrated alltime great. Nikkas think its blasphemous to put him out of the top 5 alltime but the nikka was in a perfect situation since he got in the league. Said he wouldnt join NBA unless he plays with Kareem, stacked team every season and played in historically one of the worst conferences ever at the time

[G-Funk]

No, Magic is still the GLOAT, Kobe better win that 6 ring.

[JohnFreeman]

Its a tossup IMO
Magic is the most overrated alltime great. Nikkas think its blasphemous to put him out of the top 5 alltime but the nikka was in a perfect situation since he got in the league. Said he wouldnt join NBA unless he plays with Kareem, stacked team every season and played in historically one of the worst conferences ever at the time
:biggums:

Wilt?

[Euroleague]

1. Kareem
2. Magic

Nope. Sorry Kobe.

[G-Funk]

Its a tossup IMO
Magic is the most overrated alltime great. Nikkas think its blasphemous to put him out of the top 5 alltime but the nikka was in a perfect situation since he got in the league. Said he wouldnt join NBA unless he plays with Kareem, stacked team every season and played in historically one of the worst conferences ever at the time

Lebron :oldlol:

[G-Funk]

1. Kareem
2. Magic

Nope. Sorry Kobe.
Kareem? :oldlol:

[T_L_P]

kobe is a better scorer and defender.. magic never played defense.

magic is a better passer and rebounder. thats about it.

kobe had every skill on the court. magic didnt

magic only played 13 years.. kobes gonna play 20 years

same rings

kobe won with 1 HOF'r at a time... and arguably no nba HOF'r for 2 rings and 3 straight finals..

gasol might make the HOF on international+nba .. but hes barely top 100 all time



magic however had

- HOF'r Kareem abdul jabbar
- HOF'r James Worthy
- HOF'r Jamaal Wilkes
- HOF'r Bob Mcadoo
- soon to be HOF'r ( defensive legend ) michael cooper
- possible HOF'r ( leading assists on 1980 title team ) allstar norm nixon



gasol ? common...


kobe > magic



Aren't you missing something? Kobe couldn't win with 3 other Hall of Famers on his team.

And you make it sound like winning 5 in 20 years is better than winning 5 in 13 :oldlol:

[Euroleague]

Kareem? :oldlol:

Are you actually claiming that Kobe is better than Kareem was? I have always been a big fan of Kobe, but seriously.................no.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Its a tossup IMO
Magic is the most overrated alltime great. Nikkas think its blasphemous to put him out of the top 5 alltime but the nikka was in a perfect situation since he got in the league. Said he wouldnt join NBA unless he plays with Kareem, stacked team every season and played in historically one of the worst conferences ever at the time
Whoa, surprising real talk about Magic. He manipulated the situation to play with Kareem, instead of playing on the team that was going to be able to draft him: Chicago.

Talk about egotistical, manipulative, and cowardly. The western conference then is as bad as the east is now, or through out the 2000s. The east was stacked: Bird's Celtics, Dr. J / Moses Sixers, Bad Boy Pistons.

Magic is the most iconic Laker.

They have such a lineage of great players it's sickening. How they continue to stack the amounts of talent they have is absurd. I mean, look at this:

Shaq
Chamberlain
Kareem
Mikan
Gasol
Worthy
Baylor
Kobe (Jordan's lesser clone)
J. West
Magic

Beyond spoiled. That's utterly ridiculous amount of talent through out league history. I'm shocked they don't have even more championships than they do right now.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

:biggums:

Wilt?
Wilts overrated too but he gets bashed alot more now. Magic is still the media darling:facepalm

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Lebron :oldlol:
The 80s west was just as bad as the 00s east

[G-Funk]

Are you actually claiming that Kobe is better than Kareem was? I have always been a big fan of Kobe, but seriously.................no.


Were talking about Greatest Lakers of All-time. READ!


Kareem as a Laker: 22/9/3 PER 23.4 WS.203 TS. 602 5x Champ 1x FMVP 3x MVP Total pts 24176 6x All NBA team 3x All defensive team

Kobe Bryant: 25/5/5 Per 23.4 WS.182 TS. 550 5x Champ 2x FMVP 1X MVP Total pts 31700 11x All NBA team 9x All defensive team

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Whoa, surprising real talk about Magic. He manipulated the situation to play with Kareem, instead of playing on the team that was going to be able to draft him: Chicago.

Talk about egotistical, manipulative, and cowardly. The western conference then is as bad as the east is now, or through out the 2000s. The east was stacked: Bird's Celtics, Dr. J / Moses Sixers, Bad Boy Pistons.

Magic is the most iconic Laker.

They have such a lineage of great players it's sickening. How they continue to stack the amounts of talent they have is absurd. I mean, look at this:

Shaq
Chamberlain
Kareem
Mikan
Gasol
Worthy
Baylor
Kobe (Jordan's lesser clone)
J. West
Magic

Beyond spoiled. That's utterly ridiculous amount of talent through out league history. I'm shocked they don't have even more championships than they do right now.

Agreed
heres the quote

Magic Johnson would have returned to Michigan State rather than play for the Chicago Bulls.

"I'd have stayed in school," he said here Tuesday, standing alone outside Gate 3 1/2 of Chicago Stadium, the house that could have been his. "A coin toss changed the course of my whole life." Chicago called heads in a 1979 coin flip with Los Angeles for the No. 1 pick in the NBA college draft. It came up tails.

Johnson signed with the Lakers after his sophomore year of college and proceeded to win five championships. The Bulls picked second, took UCLA's David Greenwood and have won no championships.

"I wouldn't have played here," Johnson said on the eve of Game 2 of the NBA finals between his team and the team that could have been his. "The only reason I came out to the NBA and the Lakers was to play with Kareem."

[Quickening]

When the Kobe stans completely move on to someone else, half way to Durant already... then this talk of Kobe being the greatest laker and top 10 will die out.

His stats and individual accomplishments are too poor to stand the test of time.

[Euroleague]

Were talking about Greatest Lakers of All-time. READ!


Kareem as a Laker: 22/9/3 PER 23.4 WS.203 TS. 602 5x Champ 1x FMVP 3x MVP Total pts 24176 6x All NBA team 3x All defensive team

Kobe Bryant: 25/5/5 Per 23.4 WS.182 TS. 550 5x Champ 2x FMVP 1X MVP Total pts 31700 11x All NBA team 9x All defensive team

And your point is?

[JohnFreeman]

1. Sacre

[Lakers Legend#32]

Not even close.

Magic greatest Laker ever.

[SexSymbol]

Now that I think about it, the reason Magic is universally held at TOP 2 is because he had AIDS.
It's a crime for analysts to critique him

[G-Funk]

And your point is?
:facepalm forget it just forget

[houston]

Kobe surpassed him. Magic couldn't win without Kareem:roll:

[JohnFreeman]

Kobe surpassed him. Magic couldn't win without Kareem:roll:
Shaq? Gasol?

[PsychoBe]

kobe. magic, west, and shaq admitted it, longevity, points, assists(2nd only to magic), 81 points, scoring streaks, 5 rings, 3-peat, repeat, most all defensive first teams, 2000's era globalization icon, not much more to argue.

[Jlamb47]

Kobe is the greatest Laker of all time. Kobe is a huge icon in the 00 eras. He was basically like our jordan
has the most haters as well due to being so great
yal are just hating him to make ur players look better
its obvious saltyness

[pauk]

Hell no!

[sportjames23]

Kobe is the greatest Laker of all time. Kobe is a huge icon in the 00 eras. He was basically like our jordan
has the most haters as well due to being so great
yal are just hating him to make ur players look better
its obvious saltyness


:oldlol: :lol :roll:

[Stringer Bell]

Do you understand how stupid this logic is? You can literally pull hundreds of expert quotes and opinions for either side and use the same "well they know the game better than some dude on the internet" BS. Stop acting like it's some excellent argument when it can just as easily be used to disprove any opinion you've made on the sport.

Very true. That logic is awful.

Phil Jackson said Bill Russell is the GOAT. Red Auerbach ranked Larry Bird higher than Bill Russell.

Well the two of them having 20 titles combined, they are more "qualified" to speak than we are. They have different opinions.

Also, do people actually think that a proud competitor like Magic actually thinks that Kobe, or anyone for that matter, is better than him, and that he's not just being gracious/PC?

I remember Jordan saying he wasn't the greatest ever because he wouldn't be able to know for sure how he'd do against guys like Oscar and a young Dr. J.

Like he actually believes the crap. :oldlol:

Hell, Clyde Drexler still thinks that he was better than Jordan.

[T_L_P]

Also, do people actually think that a proud competitor like Magic actually thinks that Kobe, or anyone for that matter, is better than him, and that he's not just being gracious/PC?

:bowdown:

The same with Shaq really. It'd be like Worthy calling Magic the greatest Laker; there's bound to be some bias/agenda involved.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Kobe's borderline top 5.