Which SF weapon would be best equipped to beat Shaq / Kobe Lakers?

[SamuraiSWISH]

I feel like even though Jordan is my guy, he'd have his hands full with Kobe. And it'd be difficult to totally off set the differences between the two. MJ would be better, but marginally.

The 3 peat Lakers biggest weakness was by far at the SF spot. Which of these guys would you choose having the most dimension, or important weapons to beat the early 2000s Shaq / Kobe Lakers?

LeBron - Athleticism, Scoring, Passing, Playmaking, Finishing Ability and Defensive Versatility

or

Bird - Scoring, Shooting, Toughness, Intelligence, Passing, and Rebounding

or

Durant - Volume Scoring, Sharp Shooting, Length, and Range

Which one would you build around, and how would you build around them to beat those Laker teams? No surrounding of fellow first tier MVP caliber players.

[tpols]

They had good defenders at SF.. Bran aint getting it done.. If hes scared to go at the rim on Hibbert, Shaq would keep him outside the 3 pt line.

Prolly Bird.. Could get in Kobe's head myabe and cause a rift between him and Shaq.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Which MJ are you talking about here? Because there would be quite a bit difference between the two if we're talking MJ at his peak.

You switch Mike and Pip circa 92 / 93 on Kobe, and it's a wrap.

[MichaelCorleone]

Lebron/MJ would make Kobe/Shaq cry.

[9erempiree]

There weakness wasn't the SF position. Foxy was locking down defenders and hitting open 3's.

That team didn't have a weakness to be honest with you. They destroyed everyone and the closest team to beat them were the Kings and they had a strong starting 5 too.

[VIntageNOvel]

Bird

[SamuraiSWISH]

They had good defenders at SF
Rick Fox was a very good defender. I agree. But you need someone with the size of a front court player, with the skills of a perimeter player I believe to off set the production between Shaq and Kobe. The versatility would create problems for them. They never faced a very versatile type player in the mold of a Penny, Hill, Pippen, LeBron, Durant, or Bird type.


Which MJ are you talking about here? Because there would be quite a bit difference between the two if we're talking MJ at his peak.
You're right. I was talking '96 - '98 Jordan. He'd be better than Kobe, I agree but not significantly. '90 - '93 Jordan is a horse of a different color though. That's the greatest player to ever play. He'd definitely widen the gap between himself, and Kobe.

[9erempiree]

Lebron/MJ would make Kobe/Shaq cry.

I don't think Lebron has the mental toughness to play with MJ. Once he messes up and MJ is chewing him out, he will be useless.

Dare to shoot defense and not taking shots, MJ would be giving him an earful and he will be done.

[Black and White]

Lebron/MJ would make Kobe/Shaq cry.

Who is going to guard Shaq?

[9erempiree]

Rick Fox was a very good defender. I agree. But you need someone with the size of a front court player, with the skills of a perimeter player I believe to off set the production between Shaq and Kobe. The versatility would create problems for them. They never faced a very versatile type player in the mold of a Penny, Hill, Pippen, LeBron, Durant, or Bird type.


You're right. I was talking '96 - '98 Jordan. He'd be better than Kobe, I agree but not significantly. '90 - '93 Jordan is a horse of a different color though. That's the greatest player to ever play. He'd definitely widen the gap between himself, and Kobe.

The difference between any version of Kobe and MJ isn't as big as you make them out to be. In fact, it is a coin toss between the two.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Rick Fox was a very good defender. I agree. But you need someone with the size of a front court player, with the skills of a perimeter player I believe to off set the production between Shaq and Kobe. The versatility would create problems for them. They never faced a very versatile type player in the mold of a Penny, Hill, Pippen, LeBron, Durant, or Bird type.


You're right. I was talking '96 - '98 Jordan. He'd be better than Kobe, I agree but not significantly. '90 - '93 Jordan is a horse of a different color though. That's the greatest player to ever play. He'd definitely widen the gap between himself, and Kobe.

Thanks for clarifying. To answer your original question, I'd go w/ KD. His length and shooting would be a BIG problem for the Lakers. I think Shaq's size (protecting the rim) and Kobe / Fox's defense would be good enough to at least slow Lebron down a bit.

[9erempiree]

Shaq and Kobe team are considered one of the greatest teams in history. I honestly can't find a team that would beat them. Those were legendary teams and especially the one that killed everyone in the playoffs and had a two week vacation before the 1st game of the Finals and Sixers barely beat them.

[russwest0]

Didn't Durant hold Kobe to 3-21 shooting in the 4th quarter of their last playoff meeting?

[DFish24]

Larry Bird

[MichaelCorleone]

Didn't Durant hold Kobe to 3-21 shooting in the 4th quarter of their last playoff meeting?
KD stans vs Kobe stans.

So it begins...

[SamuraiSWISH]

The difference between any version of Kobe and MJ isn't as big as you make them out to be. In fact, it is a coin toss between the two.
:oldlol:

MJ is a career 30 / 5 / 5 to Kobe's career 25 / 5 / 5. A 5 PPG difference is significant volume. That's almost a totally separate class of scorer. You realize this, right?

Kobe's peak @ 27 years old in 2006 playoffs:
28 ppg, 6 rpg, 5 apg, and 1 spg on 50%

MJ's peak @ 27 years old in 1990 playoffs:
37 ppg, 7 rpg, 7 apg, and 3 spg on 51%

Kobe @ 28 years old in 2007 playoffs:
33 ppg, 5 rpg, 4 apg, and 1 spg on 46%

MJ @ 28 years old in 1991 playoffs:
31 ppg, 6 rpg, 8 apg, and 2 spg on 52%

Kobe @ 29 years old in 2008 playoffs:
30 ppg, 6 rpg, 6 apg, and 2 spg on 48%

MJ @ 29 years old in 1992 playoffs:
35 ppg, 6 rpg, 6 apg, and 2 spg on 50%

Kobe @ 30 years old in 2009 playoffs:
30 ppg, 5 rpg, 6 apg, and 2spg on 46%

MJ @ 30 years old in 1993 playoffs:
35 ppg, 7 rpg, 6 apg, and 2 spg on 48%

MJ is better in literally EVERY single one of those seasons. In some cases the gap is HUGE in comparison. You can't be serious?

[Mure]

The difference between any version of Kobe and MJ isn't as big as you make them out to be. In fact, it is a coin toss between the two.

:biggums: Not sure if srs.

[JohnFreeman]

:oldlol:

MJ is a career 30 / 5 / 5 to Kobe's career 25 / 5 / 5. A 5 PPG difference is significant volume. That's almost a totally separate class of scorer. You realize this, right?

Kobe's peak @ 27 years old in 2006 playoffs:
28 ppg, 6 rpg, 5 apg, and 1 spg on 50%

MJ's peak @ 27 years old in 1990 playoffs:
37 ppg, 7 rpg, 7 apg, and 3 spg on 51%

Kobe @ 28 years old in 2007 playoffs:
33 ppg, 5 rpg, 4 apg, and 1 spg on 46%

MJ @ 28 years old in 1991 playoffs:
31 ppg, 6 rpg, 8 apg, and 2 spg on 52%

Kobe @ 29 years old in 2008 playoffs:
30 ppg, 6 rpg, 6 apg, and 2 spg on 48%

MJ @ 29 years old in 1992 playoffs:
35 ppg, 6 rpg, 6 apg, and 2 spg on 50%

Kobe @ 30 years old in 2009 playoffs:
30 ppg, 5 rpg, 6 apg, and 2spg on 46%

MJ @ 30 years old in 1993 playoffs:
35 ppg, 7 rpg, 6 apg, and 2 spg on 48%

MJ is better in literally EVERY single one of those seasons. In some cases the gap is HUGE in comparison. You can't be serious?

http://c3.likes-media.com/img/1778f5d18c00780a2a966de25d0888af

/thread

[NumberSix]

I feel like even though Jordan is my guy, he'd have his hands full with Kobe. And it'd be difficult to totally off set the differences between the two. MJ would be better, but marginally.

The 3 peat Lakers biggest weakness was by far at the SF spot. Which of these guys would you choose having the most dimension, or important weapons to beat the early 2000s Shaq / Kobe Lakers?

LeBron - Athleticism, Scoring, Passing, Playmaking, Finishing Ability and Defensive Versatility

or

Bird - Scoring, Shooting, Toughness, Intelligence, Passing, and Rebounding

or

Durant - Volume Scoring, Sharp Shooting, Length, and Range

Which one would you build around, and how would you build around them to beat those Laker teams? No surrounding of fellow first tier MVP caliber players.
1. Nah, he'd probably guard Fisher.

2. Black guys can't be intelligent?

[inclinerator]

any 3 would work

[KyleKong]

If it was MJ Vs Shaq and Kobe I'd probably say Bird. Simply because Bird would be more suited to be 2nd like Scottie Pippen. LeBron and Durant would bump heads with Jordan on who got the ball more.

[tpols]

Didn't Durant hold Kobe to 3-21 shooting in the 4th quarter of their last playoff meeting?

Old ass jumpshooting Kobe? Sure.. 00 to 03 Kobe would have Durant on Skates

[AnaheimLakers24]

Didn't Durant hold Kobe to 3-21 shooting in the 4th quarter of their last playoff meeting?
sefalosha

[SamuraiSWISH]

2. Black guys can't be intelligent?
All due respect given black history month, they're generally not in my honest opinion. On average of course. Always exceptions to the rule, there are really smart black guys.

Bird is clearly the most intelligent player of the three. LeBron's a basketball savant, and knowledgeable but he doesn't read defenses as quickly as Bird.

And no, Jordan would guard Kobe or Fox. Fisher would be guarded by Paxson, BJ, or Harper. He'd clearly be enticed by the challenge Kobe brings though being a similar mirror image to himself.

[Illuminati]

LeBron and Jordan would win 9-12 rings. Two greatest perimeter players of all-time.

[Heavincent]

sefalosha

Yeah Sefolosha was the one giving Kobe the business in 2012, although Durant did guard him at times.

[Jameerthefear]

All due respect given black history month, they're generally not in my honest opinion. On average of course. Always exceptions to the rule, there are really smart black guys.

Bird is clearly the most intelligent player of the three. LeBron's a basketball savant, and knowledgeable but he doesn't read defenses as quickly as Bird.

And no, Jordan would guard Kobe or Fox. Fisher would be guarded by Paxson, BJ, or Harper. He'd clearly be enticed by the challenge Kobe brings though being a similar mirror image to himself.
can't say this post is a surprise coming from you swish

[JohnFreeman]

Old ass jumpshooting Kobe? Sure.. 00 to 03 Kobe would have Durant on Skates
http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/19c35oidyf35igif/original.gif

[SavageMode]

Shaq and Kobe was the GOAT stacked team.

Shaq ran the league with 3-peat FMVPs.

[Joyner82reload]

sefalosha

Wrong. Durant almost exclusively guarded Kobe in the 4th that series. Kobe was absolutely shook. He had more to's than FGM IIRC

[SamuraiSWISH]

Wrong. Durant almost exclusively guarded Kobe in the 4th that series. Kobe was absolutely shook. He had more to's than FGM IIRChttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwmio5ARp40

[The-Legend-24]

Bran at his peak was getting locked up by Diaw :oldlol: Frobe and Fox lock him up. It's either Bird or KD.

[finchyyy]

No one on that Lakers team would be able to guard prime Bird. He would torch anyone on that team.

[Joyner82reload]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwmio5ARp40

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMvYnOKNyIE

[JohnFreeman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwmio5ARp40
:eek:

[9erempiree]

No one on that Lakers team would be able to guard prime Bird. He would torch anyone on that team.

:facepalm

Larry Bird plays basketball like a girl.

[TonyMontana]

Larry Bird would dominate them. He was dominating Dennis Rodman and Michael Cooper yet people think Rick Fox could shut him down or that Kobe would be able to stop him from posting up. :roll:

Bird is the best player.

[knicksman]

Durant of course. Coz mj has proven he can be a pg

[Odinn]

Although, individually 2000-01 Kobe was probably better than any version of Pippen, I think Pippen would be enough If we are pairing up someone with MJ.

If not, then Larry Bird. No doubt. He is the only SF that has a case over Shaq when we think of them at their best.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

Rick Fox was a very good defender. I agree. But you need someone with the size of a front court player, with the skills of a perimeter player I believe to off set the production between Shaq and Kobe. The versatility would create problems for them. They never faced a very versatile type player in the mold of a Penny, Hill, Pippen, LeBron, Durant, or Bird type.


You're right. I was talking '96 - '98 Jordan. He'd be better than Kobe, I agree but not significantly. '90 - '93 Jordan is a horse of a different color though. That's the greatest player to ever play. He'd definitely widen the gap between himself, and Kobe.
late 60s Chamberlain is better than Jordan ever was. im sorry:coleman:

[Marlo_Stanfield]

late 90s MJ would just tell Kobrick he thinks that Shaq is better and watch Kobe chuck them right outta the series:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Marlo_Stanfield]

Bran at his peak was getting locked up by Diaw :oldlol: Frobe and Fox lock him up. It's either Bird or KD.
lmao at locked up by Diaw.
thats an even bigger Myth than Kobe being clutch.
Frobe locking down LeBron is probably the most outrageous think i

[HomieWeMajor]

All due respect given black history month, they're generally not in my honest opinion. On average of course. Always exceptions to the rule, there are really smart black guys.

Bird is clearly the most intelligent player of the three. LeBron's a basketball savant, and knowledgeable but he doesn't read defenses as quickly as Bird.

And no, Jordan would guard Kobe or Fox. Fisher would be guarded by Paxson, BJ, or Harper. He'd clearly be enticed by the challenge Kobe brings though being a similar mirror image to himself.
Y'all really gonna sleep on this
SMH

[Marlo_Stanfield]

Y'all really gonna sleep on this
SMH
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[SexSymbol]

Lebron/MJ would make Kobe/Shaq cry.
From laughting way too much.

[Bandito]

Which MJ are you talking about here? Because there would be quite a bit difference between the two if we're talking MJ at his peak.

You switch Mike and Pip circa 92 / 93 on Kobe, and it's a wrap.
Yeah but what are they gonna do about Shaq? They can beat Kobe but not Shaq.

Lebron was stopped by the Spurs so hes not the answer.

Durant and Bird could beat them with a stacked team because theyre quite good from the outside and the inside.

[Bandito]

:oldlol:

MJ is a career 30 / 5 / 5 to Kobe's career 25 / 5 / 5. A 5 PPG difference is significant volume. That's almost a totally separate class of scorer. You realize this, right?

Kobe's peak @ 27 years old in 2006 playoffs:
28 ppg, 6 rpg, 5 apg, and 1 spg on 50%

MJ's peak @ 27 years old in 1990 playoffs:
37 ppg, 7 rpg, 7 apg, and 3 spg on 51%

Kobe @ 28 years old in 2007 playoffs:
33 ppg, 5 rpg, 4 apg, and 1 spg on 46%

MJ @ 28 years old in 1991 playoffs:
31 ppg, 6 rpg, 8 apg, and 2 spg on 52%

Kobe @ 29 years old in 2008 playoffs:
30 ppg, 6 rpg, 6 apg, and 2 spg on 48%

MJ @ 29 years old in 1992 playoffs:
35 ppg, 6 rpg, 6 apg, and 2 spg on 50%

Kobe @ 30 years old in 2009 playoffs:
30 ppg, 5 rpg, 6 apg, and 2spg on 46%

MJ @ 30 years old in 1993 playoffs:
35 ppg, 7 rpg, 6 apg, and 2 spg on 48%

MJ is better in literally EVERY single one of those seasons. In some cases the gap is HUGE in comparison. You can't be serious?
MJ is a different beast:bowdown:

[AintNoSunshine]

Seeing Lebron owns Kobe's azz in their H2H's, probably him. But Bird too.

[PsychoBe]

lebron's broke jumper will not help him, and may heaven have mercy on his soul if he dares to drive to the hoop consistently against shaq. then combine the swarming defense of kobe, fox, and shaw and you're in for a very, very long game.

bird would do wonders though. tough defender, knock down jumper, proficient in the post, reads defenses on a top-tier coaching level, but the problem with the lakers was that you had to stop kobe and shaq for 4 games. if the right wasn't gonna get you, the left would.

the sf is gonna need a versatile center to draw shaq away from the paint and open the floor up.

[Vertical-24]

The difference between any version of Kobe and MJ isn't as big as you make them out to be. In fact, it is a coin toss between the two.

Not really. I'm a Lakers fan but Kobe truly is MJ-lite. While I agree that some make the gap seem to be bigger than it is, a peak '93 Jordan would humiliate any version of Kobe. Especially 2000 Kobe lol

I would recommend Bird if you needed a SF to widen your chances of winning. A terrific rebounder who could bully in the post and has near unlimited range / playmaking ability. Kobe would meet his match mentally. Seeing Fox / Kobe / Grant switching on Bird would be interesting as hell.

I'm just not sure how this would actively affect Shaq though. I would recommend a Center who can play both sides of the ball if you really wanna take the 3-peat Lakers out of their element. An uncanny Hakeem/Bird duo could probably get the job done.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Didn't Durant hold Kobe to 3-21 shooting in the 4th quarter of their last playoff meeting?


what are you talking about? Kobe had 42 in the last playoff game against OKC and made 4 jumpers in that 4th quarter alone

[LAZERUSS]

Bird, surrounded with his HOF teammates likely could have beaten the Shaq-Kobe teams. And the Magic-led Lakers from '82 thru '87 would probably have beaten them in the majority of their games.

[StrongLurk]

If you're talking about pairing one of these players with Jordan, then I go with Bird.

[AnaheimLakers24]

none. shaq an kobe shit on anyone not named mj an pip and even than theyd win 90% of the time

[97 bulls]

The Bulls trounced a Magic team that had far more talent than that Shaq/Kobe team. If it's a matter of finding a player thats gonna match the impact of Shaq while Jordan and Bryant go mano-a-mano, then you aren't. At least not at SF.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

The Bulls trounced a Magic team that had far more talent than that Shaq/Kobe team. If it's a matter of finding a player thats gonna match the impact of Shaq while Jordan and Bryant go mano-a-mano, then you aren't. At least not at SF.

Per player, that Magic team also had more talent than Chicago.

The 2K- Lakers (and Bulls) were just better (coached) teams

[Overdrive]

I feel like even though Jordan is my guy, he'd have his hands full with Kobe. And it'd be difficult to totally off set the differences between the two. MJ would be better, but marginally.


Are we allowed to make Glen Rice prime/peak Glen Rice when the 72-10 Bulls get an upgrade at SF?


All due respect given black history month, they're generally not in my honest opinion. On average of course. Always exceptions to the rule, there are really smart black guys.

You mistake education for intelligence. You can live in a cave your whole live and be on Einstein level. Knowing something doesn't mean you're intelligent.

[secund2nun]

I don't care about Kobe. I'd dare him to shoot. More shots for Kobe equals less shots for Shaq (eg. 2004 finals) not to mention players like Lebron and Tony Allen can hound him into poor games (which he does by himself anyways). The key to stopping that Lakers team is to have the players down low to slow down Shaq.

I'd choose Lebron. He could easily out play Kobe and help out in the paint with his defense because of his size. Lebron does very well against teams with Kobe, but Shaq would make any matchup difficult. Kobe can't stop Lebron so Shaq could get in foul trouble.

[PsychoBe]

mj + hakeem vs kobe + shaq would be much, much, much more interesting.

though that's probably not even fair. hakeem is literally unguardable and shaq has quoted as saying that hakeem was the only player to have flat-out embarassed him and kobe's game came from the man mj himself who taught him during his twilight years.

still would be fun though.

[PsychoBe]

I don't care about Kobe. I'd dare him to shoot. More shots for Kobe equals less shots for Shaq (eg. 2004 finals) not to mention players like Lebron and Tony Allen can hound him into poor games (which he does by himself anyways). The key to stopping that Lakers team is to have the players down low to slow down Shaq.

I'd choose Lebron. He could easily out play Kobe and help out in the paint with his defense because of his size. Lebron does very well against teams with Kobe, but Shaq would make any matchup difficult. Kobe can't stop Lebron so Shaq could get in foul trouble.

i dont understand where this is coming from. the spurs let kobe(they didn't "let" him do anything but i'm just humoring you) shoot and he averaged over 30 points against them in the 2001 playoffs alone. lebron's broke jumper is not going to be an asset to anyone and he will not drive to the hole consistently against shaq and the swarming perimeter defense of kobe/fox/shaw and horry. sorry but there's just no way lebron will be able to consistently outplay kobe on the offensive or defensive end for an entire series during his physical prime.

[catquickspider]

Old ass jumpshooting Kobe? Sure.. 00 to 03 Kobe would have Durant on Skates

You don't have to go that far. 2009 and 2010 Kobe was still making Lebron and Durant look foolish

[SamuraiSWISH]

You mistake education for intelligence. You can live in a cave your whole live and be on Einstein level. Knowing something doesn't mean you're intelligent.
Calm down. No, I'm not simply mistaking education for intelligence. It's not racism either, it's opinion.

In my encounters it most definitely seems to be accurate. As I said, it's a generalization, as most stereotypes are ... but for the majority it's there for a reason.

I also feel on average white people are corny, most middle aged white men are closet racists, on average asians have more book smarts but socially are quite awkward. Stereotypes, but for the most part IMO very true.


Per player, that Magic team also had more talent than Chicago.
Very much so.

[97 bulls]

Per player, that Magic team also had more talent than Chicago.

The 2K- Lakers (and Bulls) were just better (coached) teams
I disagree.

Jordan>>Shaq
Pippen>Hardaway
Rodman>Grant
Kukoc=Anderson
Harper<Scott

I just don't see it unless your basing it off scoring. Then yes Id agree. But factoring in defens, rebounding, intangibles, IQ. Its the Bulls. Which is why the Magic were so thoroughly dominated.