Venezuela: The Game Changed Last night (some REAL S*** is going down there)

[oarabbus]

http://caracaschronicles.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/santa-monica.jpg
http://caracaschronicles.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/carretera-petare-santa-lucia.jpg

http://caracaschronicles.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/valencia.jpeg

http://caracaschronicles.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/bg0af4hccaa-eoe-jpg-large.jpeg



Listen and understand. The game changed in Venezuela last night. What had been a slow-motion unravelling that had stretched out over many years went kinetic all of a sudden.

What we have this morning is no longer the Venezuela story you thought you understood.

Throughout last night, panicked people told their stories of state-sponsored paramilitaries on motorcycles roaming middle class neighborhoods, shooting at people and storming into apartment buildings, shooting at anyone who seemed like he might be protesting. People continue to be arrested merely for protesting, and a long established local Human Rights NGO makes an urgent plea for an investigation into widespread reports of torture of detainees. There are now dozens of serious human right abuses: National Guardsmen shooting tear gas canisters directly into residential buildings. We have videos of soldiers shooting civilians on the street. And that’s just what came out in real time, over Twitter and YouTube, before any real investigation is carried out. Online media is next, a city of 645,000 inhabitants has been taken off the internet amid mounting repression, and this blog itself has been the object of a Facebook “block” campaign.

What we saw were not “street clashes”, what we saw is a state-hatched offensive to suppress and terrorize its opponents.

After the major crackdown on the streets of major (and minor) Venezuelan cities last night, I expected some kind of response in the major international news outlets this morning. I understand that with an even bigger and more photogenic freakout ongoing in an even more strategically important country, we weren’t going to be front-page-above-the-fold, but I’m staggered this morning to wake up, scan the press and find…

Nothing.

As of 11 a.m. this morning, the New York Times World Section has…nothing.


See the full article below:
http://caracaschronicles.com/2014/02/20/venezuela-the-game-changed-last-night/

http://caracaschronicles.com/2014/02/19/19f/

[fiddy]

Any Venezuelan people here?
Any Cubans?

[kNIOKAS]

Yes we need more info. The world needs more info! What is it about?

[ForeverHeat]

Yes we need more info. The world needs more info! What is it about?

Mind yo bidness boi

[Lebowsky]

Any Venezuelan people here?
My gf is from there.

[MightyWhitey]

America should have bombed Venezuela off the face of the Earth when Hugo was still alive. These Latin American countries are ripe with corruption and human rights abuses. Now the worlds police will eventually have get involved somehow because people don't know how to govern themselves.

[outbreak]

America should have bombed Venezuela off the face of the Earth when Hugo was still alive. These Latin American countries are ripe with corruption and human rights abuses. Now the worlds police will eventually have get involved somehow because people don't know how to govern themselves.

because bombing countries without solving their issues really helps doesn't it.....:facepalm

[Dizzle-2k7]

America should have bombed Venezuela off the face of the Earth when Hugo was still alive. These Latin American countries are ripe with corruption and human rights abuses. Now the worlds police will eventually have get involved somehow because people don't know how to govern themselves.

fukk you , war mongering , assh0le :coleman:

[oarabbus]

America should have bombed Venezuela off the face of the Earth when Hugo was still alive. These Latin American countries are ripe with corruption and human rights abuses. Now the worlds police will eventually have get involved somehow because people don't know how to govern themselves.


Do you even know our history with Latin American countries? I really hope you do although that statement is stupid anyway.

Idiot.

[Done_And_Done]

Here's a brief clip of said riots

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvhLYFazp2E

[dr.hee]

America should have bombed Venezuela off the face of the Earth when Hugo was still alive. These Latin American countries are ripe with corruption and human rights abuses. Now the worlds police will eventually have get involved somehow because people don't know how to govern themselves.


:biggums:

[zoom17]

Crazy protests in Ukraine, Venezuela and Thailand.

[KevinNYC]

My guess would be that without Chavez you still have all the repression with none of the cult of personality.


Protestors are leaving these in the streets to protect against the motorcycle thugs.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bg70jWoCAAA81P_.jpg:large

[KevinNYC]

Slate is saying (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2014/02/nicolas_maduro_s_venezuela_erupts_in_violence_the_ venezuelan_president_appears.html) the new president doesn't enjoy the political support within in his own party that Chavez did.

Maduro isn’t acting like the man with the upper hand. In his remarks Wednesday, he seemed erratic and unsure of himself, which only fuels rumors that he may have diminishing control over the state and its security forces.

...That may be the key difference between Venezuela today and before: For all of the combative rhetoric and venom spewed by Hugo Chavez, the Comandante always kept a lid on widespread repression. The late strongman was expert at verbally provoking and demonizing his opponents, but the threshold for a large-scale crackdown was never crossed. Chavez would unsettle his enemies, entertain half measures, or defuse a situation by simply directing his abuse at a wholly new target. But Maduro has never possessed his predecessor’s confidence, communication, or political canny, and he inherited a government rife with factions. Since his narrow election last April, the fear has been that Chavismo’s odd blend of bravado and insecurity would swing wildly in his hands, especially as the country dire economic conditions worsened. Early Thursday morning, a senior adviser to a Popular Will party leader described the situation as “extremely fluid,” before expressing surprise at Maduro’s decision to ramp up the confrontation. “The government keeps upping the ante,” he said.

Oil prices have been down which has really effected their economy.

[RidonKs]

i was just reading about this after seeing a friend post this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFS6cP9auDc&feature=youtu.be) on facebook, which is making serious waves around the web and actually comes straight from the blog (caracaschronicles) cited in the op.

it's worth reading up from as wide a variety of sources you can. too often when people take to the streets, our instinct as secure and insulated westerners is to jump on the side of the people and decry everything about the state. and as usual, whether we're talking about ukraine, venezuela, thailand, or egypt and syria in recent years... that's a mistake. i found some more reasonable accounts at places like human rights watch and amnesty international. the independent and christian science monitor also had more balanced takes. there's a democracynow interview with a professor that comes off as a bit of a maduro/chavez whitewash but nevertheless highlights the nuances of what's happening right now.

the bottom line imo is that students are pissed off, as they should be, because the economy does appear to be in shambles. i don't believe economic policy is strictly to blame but i don't have the background to take a strong stand on that.

a major mistake is to presume supposed "leaders" -- i'm specifically talking about leopoldo lopez now -- are the good guys fighting the big bad commie takeover government (that won substantially in municipal elections not three months ago bear in mind). check into his background. btw, another thought to bear in mind, his party has been supported for years now by the american "civil society funding" initiatives, which is code for foreign electioneering by the NED and its republican (i think) counterpart.

as for lopez' imprisonment, nobody has any idea right now if the charges against him, which range from inciting murder to arson, are backed by any evidence whatsoever. it's worth noting that when he turned himself in, a week after the government issued its warrant (and he wasn't hiding), he was joined by thousands of supporters, and actually given a megaphone to address them before he was taken away.

i think accusations of government repression are overblown. i read the word totalitarian in one article, which is completely disrespectful to the people who actually were forced to live under such a regime. the media takeover is apparently also somewhat distorted in the western media. the colombian station (supposedly one of the few anti-govt stations left) was taken off the airways recently. but as to maduro owning and operating or coercing every media outlet in the country... it's farfetched. heres a publication by jimmy carter's org that details the media as of the presidential election back in april. (http://www.cartercenter.org/resources/pdfs/news/peace_publications/election_reports/venezuela-pre-election-rpt-2013.pdf) worth a look.

the maduro government is not responding as it should. he issued a declaration that all violent action against nonviolent protest will be acted upon by his own forced... but police, national armies, and paramilitaries which i know nothing about (and nobody else seems to either) are acting on their own accord. there are realities here on the ground, from the past many years, that need to be addressed. progress has been made since chavez came into power, that much is undeniable, but these students need to get a personal and genuine response from their president. i sincerely hope he brings it. and i sincerely hope they (the protesters) aren't usurped by leaders with ulterior motives that will unquestionably lead to even more dissatisfaction.

[KevinNYC]

Here's an article about their economy from November. (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-25/venezuela-oil-rut-makes-dollars-even-more-scarce.html)


The slump in Venezuelan oil prices is depriving the South American nation of its main source of revenue and threatening bondholders already suffering the worst losses in emerging markets.

Average prices of Venezuelan crude exports, responsible for 95 percent of the nation’s foreign currency earnings, fell to a 16-month low this month and ended last week at $93.98 a barrel. Each $1 dollar decline in a barrel of oil costs Venezuela about $700 million per year, according to estimates from state-owned Petroleos de Venezuela SA.

and it's only gotten worse.

Inflation is up to 50%, there's a black market of people exchanging their money for US dollars, there's shortages in the markets.

[Lebowsky]

My guess would be that without Chavez you still have all the repression with none of the cult of personality.


Protestors are leaving these in the streets to protect against the motorcycle thugs.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bg70jWoCAAA81P_.jpg:large
That's right. Maduro has no charisma or appeal to the masses, unlike Chavez. Now factor in the economic situation getting beyond critical, corruption and street crime running rampant, state repression tightening, and here's the result.

Things are getting really bad. 6 dead in a week of protests. They arrested one of the main leaders of the opposition under crazy made up charges and put him in a military prison. The government is arming and funding street gangs to attack protesters. Cuban intelligence agents are starting to arrive in the country. Things are looking really dire, it's about to blow up.

[KevinNYC]

I don't know about y'all but between this and the Ukraine and Aleppo, I'm feeling fortunate that I don't have to confront those issues.

[Dictator]

America should have bombed Venezuela off the face of the Earth when Hugo was still alive. These Latin American countries are ripe with corruption and human rights abuses. Now the worlds police will eventually have get involved somehow because people don't know how to govern themselves.


Eat a snickers, you turn into a dumbass when you're hungry.
http://www.shelikespurple.com/.a/6a00d8341c77ee53ef0148c870aa0d970c-800wi

[Lebowsky]

i was just reading about this after seeing a friend post this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFS6cP9auDc&feature=youtu.be) on facebook, which is making serious waves around the web and actually comes straight from the blog (caracaschronicles) cited in the op.

it's worth reading up from as wide a variety of sources you can. too often when people take to the streets, our instinct as secure and insulated westerners is to jump on the side of the people and decry everything about the state. and as usual, whether we're talking about ukraine, venezuela, thailand, or egypt and syria in recent years... that's a mistake. i found some more reasonable accounts at places like human rights watch and amnesty international. the independent and christian science monitor also had more balanced takes. there's a democracynow interview with a professor that comes off as a bit of a maduro/chavez whitewash but nevertheless highlights the nuances of what's happening right now.

the bottom line imo is that students are pissed off, as they should be, because the economy does appear to be in shambles. i don't believe economic policy is strictly to blame but i don't have the background to take a strong stand on that.

a major mistake is to presume supposed "leaders" -- i'm specifically talking about leopoldo lopez now -- are the good guys fighting the big bad commie takeover government (that won substantially in municipal elections not three months ago bear in mind). check into his background. btw, another thought to bear in mind, his party has been supported for years now by the american "civil society funding" initiatives, which is code for foreign electioneering by the NED and its republican (i think) counterpart.

as for lopez' imprisonment, nobody has any idea right now if the charges against him, which range from inciting murder to arson, are backed by any evidence whatsoever. it's worth noting that when he turned himself in, a week after the government issued its warrant (and he wasn't hiding), he was joined by thousands of supporters, and actually given a megaphone to address them before he was taken away.

i think accusations of government repression are overblown. i read the word totalitarian in one article, which is completely disrespectful to the people who actually were forced to live under such a regime. the media takeover is apparently also somewhat distorted in the western media. the colombian station (supposedly one of the few anti-govt stations left) was taken off the airways recently. but as to maduro owning and operating or coercing every media outlet in the country... it's farfetched. heres a publication by jimmy carter's org that details the media as of the presidential election back in april. (http://www.cartercenter.org/resources/pdfs/news/peace_publications/election_reports/venezuela-pre-election-rpt-2013.pdf) worth a look.

the maduro government is not responding as it should. he issued a declaration that all violent action against nonviolent protest will be acted upon by his own forced... but police, national armies, and paramilitaries which i know nothing about (and nobody else seems to either) are acting on their own accord. there are realities here on the ground, from the past many years, that need to be addressed. progress has been made since chavez came into power, that much is undeniable, but these students need to get a personal and genuine response from their president. i sincerely hope he brings it. and i sincerely hope they (the protesters) aren't usurped by leaders with ulterior motives that will unquestionably lead to even more dissatisfaction.

Sorry, Ridonks, but most of your post is fairly misguided. While I do agree with some of your points, others do come across a bit naive.

Students (but not only them) are pissed of, and rightfully so, because a potentially wealthy country is going down the shitter due to corruption and incompetence. Economic policy is indeed to blame. Their minister of finance used to be an old-school communist up until recently (Giordani). They've robbed the country blind of its means of production by confiscating private companies who wouldn't bend to their desires. Those once succesful businesses have been completely run to the ground, to the point they currently have to import an overwhelming majority of what they consume. In a country that depends on oil income, that's an extremely risky position to hold. To make it worse, their currency is pegged to the dollar, so people and businesses can't freely buy dollars to finance their imports, which has led to the extreme shortage of basic goods they have.
On top of all that, the Government is extremely corrupt. They are robbing the country blind, plain and simple. To give you an example,years ago, some foreign independent reporters traced accounts in some Swiss banks to Diosdado Cabello, one of PSUV's main leaders, in excess of USD21M. Imagine how much he has by now. And that's just one case.

Then you also have the state-sponsored paramilitary groups, the mindblowing murder rates, the tolerance towards FARC and ELN terrorists operating in Venezuela, the Cuban interference in their national affairs...

Regarding the elections you mentioned, it was proven beyond doubt that the results were rigged by PSUV, I thought that was common knowledge. Nobody from the opposition acknowledged the results. They demanded for the results to be independently audited, and then the electoral commision enacted a ridiculous charade. There is no separation of powers in Venezuela, the PSUV permeates all and rules all.
I'm not sold on Leopoldo Lopez as a leader either. Capriles looks like the perfect guy to lead the country out of the shadows, and he should be doing that now if not for the massive electoral fraud.

People have been passive long enough, but they are tired and they want a change. I don't know how it will end, but at least is something.

[fsvr54]

I'm part Venezuelan on my dad's side, I was born there.

[christian1923]

Damn that capped miss venezuala. What's wrong with these ppl

[netsfan549]

Do you guys see Obama getting in this?

[KevinNYC]

Do you guys see Obama getting in this?

Since this is almost purely domestic, I don't think so.

With the Ukraine, you have the situation of where the government wants to get close to Putin and the population seems to want to join the EU. We might do sanctions against them....we may even still have some in place. You would think that Obama would be on the side of the protesters and given our recent history with Venezuela, (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/03/international/americas/03venezuela.html?_r=0) our getting overtly involved would discredit the protesters.

If you remember a couple of years ago when they were having the protests in Iran, folks wanted Obama to endorse one of the reform candidates. This probably would have been a terrible idea for the reasons this Iranian journalist lays out (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/10/11/why-obama-is-right-and-romney-is-wrong-on-iran.html)[QUOTE]As the demonstrations grew, the two main opposition leaders

[MightyWhitey]

fukk you , war mongering , assh0le :coleman:
Grow up. Venezuela is nothing more than a dictatorship that should've been torn down years ago.

[MightyWhitey]

Do you even know our history with Latin American countries? I really hope you do although that statement is stupid anyway.

Idiot.
Sure do know about it. And now the United States of America has another leader to install in power in another troublesome country. Or we could just bomb the hell out of them and teach them a lesson in Statecraft and human rights abuses.

[cuad]

USA sponsored paramilitary*.

We comin' for dat oil, Venezuela.

[Big_Dogg]

Grow up. Venezuela is nothing more than a dictatorship that should've been torn down years ago.


Funny how countries are a dictatorship in America's eyes when the countries leader tells America to go fu(k itself coz they won't give up the rights to their oil reserves :rolleyes:

[MightyWhitey]

Funny how countries are a dictatorship in America's eyes when the countries leader tells America to go fu(k itself coz they won't give up the rights to their oil reserves :rolleyes:
:wtf:

[Big_Dogg]

:wtf:

Don't tell me you're stupid enough to think it was for other reasons :rolleyes:

[MightyWhitey]

Don't tell me you're stupid enough to think it was for other reasons :rolleyes:
Don't tell me you actually believe in conspiracy theories :facepalm

[KevinNYC]

Funny how countries are a dictatorship in America's eyes when the countries leader tells America to go fu(k itself coz they won't give up the rights to their oil reserves :rolleyes:

It's very easy to fall into this trap with politics: you're against US policies therefore you must be for governments that oppose the US.

Remove the US from the equation and take a look at Venezuela do you like what you see?

[RidonKs]

Sorry, Ridonks, but most of your post is fairly misguided. While I do agree with some of your points, others do come across a bit naive.

Students (but not only them) are pissed of, and rightfully so, because a potentially wealthy country is going down the shitter due to corruption and incompetence. Economic policy is indeed to blame. Their minister of finance used to be an old-school communist up until recently (Giordani). They've robbed the country blind of its means of production by confiscating private companies who wouldn't bend to their desires. Those once succesful businesses have been completely run to the ground, to the point they currently have to import an overwhelming majority of what they consume. In a country that depends on oil income, that's an extremely risky position to hold. To make it worse, their currency is pegged to the dollar, so people and businesses can't freely buy dollars to finance their imports, which has led to the extreme shortage of basic goods they have.
On top of all that, the Government is extremely corrupt. They are robbing the country blind, plain and simple. To give you an example,years ago, some foreign independent reporters traced accounts in some Swiss banks to Diosdado Cabello, one of PSUV's main leaders, in excess of USD21M. Imagine how much he has by now. And that's just one case.

Then you also have the state-sponsored paramilitary groups, the mindblowing murder rates, the tolerance towards FARC and ELN terrorists operating in Venezuela, the Cuban interference in their national affairs...

Regarding the elections you mentioned, it was proven beyond doubt that the results were rigged by PSUV, I thought that was common knowledge. Nobody from the opposition acknowledged the results. They demanded for the results to be independently audited, and then the electoral commision enacted a ridiculous charade. There is no separation of powers in Venezuela, the PSUV permeates all and rules all.
I'm not sold on Leopoldo Lopez as a leader either. Capriles looks like the perfect guy to lead the country out of the shadows, and he should be doing that now if not for the massive electoral fraud.

People have been passive long enough, but they are tired and they want a change. I don't know how it will end, but at least is something.
thanks for the response lebowsky. i don't think i'm naive, my post was primarily cautionary advice for anybody wading into this issue. it's very easy to parrot verdicts of a more or less consensus western media on issues like these. as usual, it's more complex.

we clearly agree with regard to your last two sentences. any spontaneous mass movement springing out of economic desperation should be supported. and there's no question people are desperate... empty shelves in grocery stores and a rapidly inflating currency tell the tale. that anger gets (rightfully) redirected toward the state; corruption, draconian policies, economic mismanagement. it's the most powerful institution and it has to respond to public pressures. i sincerely hope the maduro government does respond. but i highly doubt it'll be in the fashion you and most economic commentators would recommend.

i'll definitely sound naive talking about economics. but i do think it's more complicated than the usual story we hear of red tape and regulation driving business out. i'd have to research the situation more but from my understanding, the pre-98 venezuelan economy was dominated by foreign capital, and primarily enriching a small elite group. it's the usual model.

that's the backdrop for the last fifteen years of nationalization and heavy handed regulation on private industry. and maybe you can draw a straight line, maybe you can't, but the absolute fact is that since the "revolution", extreme poverty has been reduced by 75% (or so). that's enormous progress that usually gets short thrift in western media. the economist constantly calls the social programming that eventually churned out that progress things like "brute populism for electioneering purposes" or w/e. well... that's one way to think of it.

the key problem to me, and again forgive me for perhaps sounding naive, correct what you think needs correcting; it's the total powerlessness of states to regulate capital inflows and outflows. it's a race to the bottom in every sense, not just capital flowing to the worst labour standards but to the "best economic environment". maybe you can shed some light on that very significant point that, it would seem imo, impacts domestic economies more than anything else.

maybe you can offer some examples of how government policies have hampered national private industry, apart from the usual tax rates arguments.

straight corruption needs to be protested of course, and a government with the same establishment class of officials is inevitably going to become more corrupt. that's the one major problem with the chavez party that i don't think it's chief fully recognized or understood... nor seemingly does his successor. but i have my doubts that actually embezzling or taking off the top for personal gain have any sort of the same significance as what i mentioned above.

there's no time or space to get into a conversation about the "narco terrorist outfits" like farc and eln. there's an extremely long history that has lead to this point. as for cuban meddling... again, i see mutual support. the whole region has been integrating in just the last decade more than it has since columbus; venezuela, bolivia, brazil, equador, etc. colombia and chile are sort of on the outside of this phenomenon.

the paramilitaries that you mentioned... i still can't find any information about them. i've heard them referred to as... can't remember the name. some short word but i tried looking it up and found very little. maybe you have some sources explaining what these groups are, where they come from, how they're affiliated and funded, etc.



i'm rambling, terrible habit and probably no longer responding directly to your points. i probably should have broken up your post and responded in pieces to make mine more coherent.

regardless, last point. i think "common knowledge" is an interesting phrase. more of a consensus, but not of everybody. i followed the issue closely as it happened and became convinced that the opposition was acting irrationally because they lost a close but fair race. the review was not a sham. but i won't go into details, if you want to offer some sources and explain why you believe it was entirely fraudulent, i'd like to hear you out. we fundamentally disagree there.

though i didn't refer to the presidential election in my first post, but the municipal elections of december, which were dominated by the chavez party.

look forward to your reply.

[KevinNYC]

Since this is almost purely domestic, I don't think so.

With the Ukraine, you have the situation of where the government wants to get close to Putin and the population seems to want to join the EU. We might do sanctions against them....we may even still have some in place. You would think that Obama would be on the side of the protesters and given our recent history with Venezuela, (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/03/international/americas/03venezuela.html?_r=0) our getting overtly involved would discredit the protesters.

If you remember a couple of years ago when they were having the protests in Iran, folks wanted Obama to endorse one of the reform candidates. This probably would have been a terrible idea for the reasons this Iranian journalist lays out (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/10/11/why-obama-is-right-and-romney-is-wrong-on-iran.html)

What do I know? (http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/21/world/americas/venezuela-protests/)

Venezuela's Maduro wants talks with Obama

Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro called Friday on the United States to exchange ambassadors just days after expelling three American diplomats from the country.
The request came during an hours-long news conference aired on state-run TV, where Maduro called on President Barack Obama to begin talks, even as he repeatedly accused the United States of interfering in Venezuelan internal affairs and stoking sometimes violent anti-government protests in recent days.
"I call for a dialogue with you, Obama," Maduro said. "You can designate (U.S. Secretary of State John) Kerry or whoever you want to come to this dialogue and I will send my foreign minister ... for this high-level meeting."
At the same time, Maduro accused Obama of failing to live up to a commitment not to "interfere with Venezuelan affairs."
"What you have said has not been carried out," he said.
The United States and Venezuela have not had resident ambassadors since 2010, although they have maintained diplomatic missions and active embassies.
Maduro's call to exchange ambassadors comes after his government accused American diplomats of using a visa program as cover to meet with with youth organizers at private universities "for training, financing and creating youth organizations through which violence is promoted in Venezuela."

[Josh]

http://www.datacenterdynamics.com/sites/default/files/Brazil%20Wiki%20map.jpg

I hate Venezuela. Bunch of dumbass idiots. Plus, I heard they primarily speak Portuguese. It'd be great if they learned some ****ing geography while they're at it.

(joke)

[russwest0]

The American People Need To Do This In America