'98 Pacers vs '14 Pacers Who Wins?

[Foster5k]

'98 Pacers

PG: Mark Jackson/Travis Best
SG: Reggie Miller/Jalen Rose
SF: Chris Mullin/Derrick McKey
PF: Dale Davis/Mark Pope
C: Rik Smits/Antonio Davis

vs

'14 Pacers

PG: George Hill/C.J. Watson
SG: Paul George/Chris Copeland
SF: Lance Stephenson/Evan Turner
PF: David West/Lavoy Allen/Luis Scola
C: Roy Hibbert/Ian Mahinmi/Bynum

Who wins?

[Rik Smits' Hair]

98

[Marlo_Stanfield]

its very close but the current PAcers steam is one of the most stacked team of all time:no:

[Haymaker]

You got the SF and SG wrong but I'll take Reggie & co.

[D-FENS]

98

Agreed. Davis would ruin West, and I don't see George and Stephenson keeping their tempers in check with Miller - one of the biggest instigators ever

[mentallooser]

98

[D.J.]

'98. They're just a grittier and more experienced team. And in a 7 game series where there's going to be needed baskets, not many guys are more clutch than Reggie Miller.

[r15mohd]

Rik Smits would make Hibbert look like a fool!!! :lol

[r15mohd]

'98. They're just a grittier and more experienced team. And in a 7 game series where there's going to be needed baskets, not many guys are more clutch than Reggie Miller.


:applause: :applause: :applause:

[TheMarkMadsen]

98 by far, very good team

[MavsSuperFan]

You guys are so nostalgic for the 90s.

2014

[D.J.]

You guys are so nostalgic for the 90s.

2014


That '98 squad took Chicago to 7 games and held a double digit lead in the first half. Only other team to take the Bulls to 7 were the '92 Knicks.

[secund2nun]

14 Pacers in 6

[SilkkTheShocker]

This board's obsession with the 90s continues.

[hitmanyr2k]

'98. They're just a grittier and more experienced team. And in a 7 game series where there's going to be needed baskets, not many guys are more clutch than Reggie Miller.

People rarely remember Miller couldn't throw it in the ocean against the Chicago in Game 6 and while he had a decent first half of Game 7 he was a ghost in the 2nd half. There was a time in the 4th qtr where I forgot he was on the floor.

With that said I put far more faith in Larry Bird's coaching than Frank Vogel's and the '14 Pacers are too boneheaded and turnover prone to take their side in a defensive series.

[JimmyMcAdocious]

Silkk is right.

'14 Pacers vs '14 Pacers - Who wins?

[hitmanyr2k]

This board's obsession with the 90s continues.

For good reason. The Eastern Conference is shit now.

[Bandito]

98 by far. Reggie was a beast and Rik Smits would destroy Hibbert.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

This board's obsession with the 90s continues.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[SamuraiSWISH]

2014 Pacers.

[Keno]

one word: defense.

[Reggie43]

one word: defense.

This means what exactly? 98 Pacers if I remember correctly were one of the better defensive teams at the time

[Keno]

This means what exactly? 98 Pacers if I remember correctly were one of the better defensive teams at the time

no they weren't wtf. not even close.

[Reggie43]

no they weren't wtf. not even close.

5th in defensive rating says they are aside from being a very good offensive team

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

'14 Pacers. Really gotta see how they click in the playoffs doe.

OT, but when you think about it, those Bulls teams didnt really face great competition in the finals.

-93 Suns
-96 Sonics

I thought the 91 Lakers were older (and injured), Jazz small and overrated chokers (see Malone), and the the Blazers, while great, were just blah.

Too bad the 80s Lakers and Celtics were shells of themselves. Miami would probably beat all of those teams above, too.

[finchyyy]

Taking the '14 Pacers over the 98 version.. However, the 2005 team before the suspensions are a different story..

[raprap]

14 pacers

[finchyyy]

Reggie Miller is probably the most overrated player on these boards too.

[atljonesbro]

14. Reggie Miller is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO overrated it's absolutely unreal. He's a 17/3/3 player and super clutch. Basically Joe Johnson.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Reggie Miller is probably the most overrated player on these boards too.

definitely one of the more overrated players. Dude was a f*cking rattlesnake in crunch-time though.

[97 bulls]

'14 Pacers. Really gotta see how they click in the playoffs doe.

OT, but when you think about it, those Bulls teams didnt really face great competition in the finals.

-93 Suns
-96 Sonics

I thought the 91 Lakers were older (and injured), Jazz small and overrated chokers (see Malone), and the the Blazers, while great, were just blah.

Too bad the 80s Lakers and Celtics were shells of themselves. Miami would probably beat all of those teams above, too.
The only problem with the teams the Bulls faced is that they didn't win. Those teams were plenty strong.

And for the life of me, ill never understand why the Bulls get questioned for winning vs teams that had injured players. When other teams often did as well. When ALL the great 80s squads beat teams that were either too young, too old, injured, or just flatout no good.

What was so great about the 80 Sixers? Moses Malone wasn't on that team.

Nobody calls the 81 Celtics great. And what was so great about that Rocket team they beat? They were 40-42

The 82 Lakers beat a version of the great Sixer team.that would win next year. But still didnt have Moses Malone. Hardly any better than the teams the Bulls beat.

The 83 Sixers swept the Lakers who had Magic returning from injury and lost James Worthy to an injury

The 84 Celtics weren't an alltime great team. And most people feel the Lakers beat more than Boston deserved to win.

The 85 Lakers had a 23 year old Byron Scott and James Worthy.

The 86 didn't face an alltime great team in the Rockets. Im sure the 96 Sonics could've beaten that Rocket team as well.

The 87 Lakers beat an injured Celtics team

The 88 Lakers beat an injured Piston team that lost their best player in Isiah Thomas to that badly sprained ankle.

The 89 Pistons beat a Laker team with no Magic or Scott

And you dont hold that Blazer team in that high of regard.

So please tell us what was so different or why do you look down at the Bulls Titles when the teams you do hold in high regard won under the exact same circumstances

[SamuraiSWISH]

OT, but when you think about it, those Bulls teams didnt really face great competition in the finals.
Talking straight stupid now. All these teams:

'98 Jazz
'97 Jazz
'97 Heat
'96 Sonics
'96 Magic
'93 Suns
'93 Knicks

Won 60+ games. The Showtime Lakers played in a conference as bad as the 2000's, and 2013, 2014 Eastern Conference on their road to the Finals.

Those late 90's Jazz teams beat STACKED teams like the Sonics, Rockets, and Shaq's uber stacked '98 Lakers. Are you high right now?

[hitmanyr2k]

Talking straight stupid now. All these teams:

'98 Jazz
'97 Jazz
'97 Heat
'96 Sonics
'96 Magic
'93 Suns
'93 Knicks

Won 60+ games. The Showtime Lakers played in a conference as bad as the 2000's, and 2013, 2014 Eastern Conference on their road to the Finals.

Those late 90's Jazz teams beat STACKED teams like the Sonics, Rockets, and Shaq's uber stacked '98 Lakers. Are you high right now?

I still marvel at how those late 90's Jazz teams dismantled the Lakers in the playoffs. '97 gets a pass because that was LA's first year together but in '98 they had seemed to put it all together and had 4 all-stars on top of that. On paper you would take Shaq, Elden Campbell, Horry, Van Exel, and young high flyers like Eddie Jones and Kobe all day every day over Utah....but that's why they play the games :oldlol:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Talking straight stupid now. All these teams:

'98 Jazz
'97 Jazz
'97 Heat
'96 Sonics
'96 Magic
'93 Suns
'93 Knicks

Won 60+ games. The Showtime Lakers played in a conference as bad as the 2000's, and 2013, 2014 Eastern Conference on their road to the Finals.

Those late 90's Jazz teams beat STACKED teams like the Sonics, Rockets, and Shaq's uber stacked '98 Lakers. Are you high right now?

Easy there, turbo.

Its just I never really thought Utah stood a threat (a lot of that had to with Malone being a perennial choke artist). Outside of '93 and '96 (their greatest finals opponents), Chicago's best competition was in the East, in the earlier rounds.

Miami beats all those teams though, especially if Wade is healthy.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

The only problem with the teams the Bulls faced is that they didn't win. Those teams were plenty strong.

'92 Knicks
'92 Cavs
'93 Knicks
'93 Suns
'96 Sonics

Were ALL great teams. Utah was good, just never really scared me when they played Mike's Bulls. Same with Portland (who lucked out not playing anybody worth mentioning in the West).

'12 and '13 Miami (and the 80s&90s Lakers/Celtics) are beating Utah/LAL/Portland, IMO.

[97 bulls]

'92 Knicks
'92 Cavs
'93 Knicks
'93 Suns
'96 Sonics

Were ALL great teams. Utah was good, just never really scared me when they played Mike's Bulls. Same with Portland (who lucked out not playing anybody worth mentioning in the West).

'12 and '13 Miami (and the 80s&90s Lakers/Celtics) are beating Utah/LAL/Portland, IMO.
You gotta understand something about me. Ill never argue with a person over their opinion. So if you feel that way that's fine. But the reasoning? That's what I question. Theres just noooooo consistency. And you obviously see that because you left out the meat of my post. Ill ask this again. Why do the 80s Championship teams hold more weight than the Bulls title runs when they all won under basically the same terms you hold against the Bulls. Key players were old, injured, or just flatout wasn't there. What's the difference?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

You gotta understand something about me. Ill never argue with a person over their opinion. So if you feel that way that's fine. But the reasoning? That's what I question. Theres just noooooo consistency. And you obviously see that because you left out the meat of my post. Ill ask this again. Why do the 80s Championship teams hold more weight than the Bulls title runs when they all won under basically the same terms you hold against the Bulls. Key players were old, injured, or just flatout wasn't there. What's the difference?

Well, the teams Chicago played in the finals weren't very consistent. Some were great offenses, some great defenses, but hardly a combination of both (LA had the best combination, but were banged up in the finals; the exception being the '93 Suns and '96 Sonics, as I originally said).

I don't have an answer to the bold. Never really cared to debate it. The discussion is about the '14 and '98 Pacers, who are linked to the Bulls. :confusedshrug:

[Reggie43]

The 98 Pacers main core beat the likes of Shaq/Penny, Ewing/Starks etc in the playoffs. I doubt they have a harder time facing Hibbert/George which is in my opinion a notch below the other duos.

[D.J.]

14. Reggie Miller is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO overrated it's absolutely unreal. He's a 17/3/3 player and super clutch. Basically Joe Johnson.


Except Reggie was far more dangerous in the clutch than JJ. Miller is arguably the most clutch player not named Jordan or Bird. The Knicks in '94 and '95, Bulls in '98, Nets in '02. He regularly came through with clutch games and shots. Hell in game 5 against the Nets in '02, Reggie and Kidd were going tic for tac in those 2 overtimes. And that was Reggie at 37.

Now while we're comparing him with JJ, Reggie's best statistical year was 25/4/4 on 51/41/87. He also went 50/42/91 in another year. JJ's best statistical season so far is 25/4/4 on 47/38/75. His last season in Phoenix, he shot 46/48/75. When averaging 21-22 PPG, JJ was doing so on around 18 shots. Reggie's 24.7 PPG season, he did it on just 15.7 shots. When averaging around 21 PPG, he did so on around 14 shots. Much more efficient than JJ.

[Rasheed1]

98 Pacers

maybe even the 2000 Pacers were better

[tpols]

98 Pacers

maybe even the 2000 Pacers were better

Prime Jermaine Oneal is a better player than anyone on the current pacers.. Ron Artest, Arrington, Tinsley, still serviceable Reggie Miller.. They would beat the Pacers at their own game. Hibbert/West wouldnt bully that team.

[Soundwave]

'92 Knicks
'92 Cavs
'93 Knicks
'93 Suns
'96 Sonics

Were ALL great teams. Utah was good, just never really scared me when they played Mike's Bulls. Same with Portland (who lucked out not playing anybody worth mentioning in the West).

'12 and '13 Miami (and the 80s&90s Lakers/Celtics) are beating Utah/LAL/Portland, IMO.

Bulls would beat all three of the teams Miami has faced in the Finals, including the Dallas team that embarrassed Miami.

San Antonio is old as f*ck and Parker was hurt on top of that.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Easy there, turbo.

Its just I never really thought Utah stood a threat (a lot of that had to with Malone being a perennial choke artist). Outside of '93 and '96 (their greatest finals opponents), Chicago's best competition was in the East, in the earlier rounds.

Miami beats all those teams though, especially if Wade is healthy.
You're so schizo ... the Heat's best competition was 2011 Celtics, 2011 Bulls, 2011 Mavericks, and 2012 Thunder. Their run to the Finals last year was historically weak.

They faced only ONE 50+ win team, and it was an ancient Spurs team. A team with a similar record to the '91 Lakers, '92 Knicks, '92 Cavs, '92 Blazers, and '93 Cavs. They weren't a 60+ win caliber ball club.

The Bulls beat the league's best offenses, and defenses on their way to championships. Their style suited the advantages of any opponent. I think Miami has a very difficult time with the following:

'92 Knicks
'93 Knicks
'93 Suns

Special difficulty with:

'96 Magic
'97 Heat

And if they struggled with 37 year old Duncan leadin an old 2013 Spurs squad, they'd moderately struggle with:

'96 Sonics
'97 Jazz
'98 Pacers
'98 Jazz

As I said, Jordan's Bulls faced more 60+ win teams en route to their championships than teams led by Bird, Magic, Shaq, Kobe, or LeBron. Think about it.

[Rose'sACL]

'14 pacers.

[SamuraiSWISH]

'92 Knicks
'92 Cavs
'93 Knicks
'93 Suns
'96 Sonics

Were ALL great teams.
I agree. Those were the best, but c'mon

No mention of :

- '96's Shaq / Penny Orlando Magic?
- '97's Zo / Timmy Hardaway / Jamal Mashburn Miami Heat?

The '96 Magic, and '97 Heat were every bit as good as any of those teams you mentioned. Seriously they are right there with the '92 Knicks, '93 Knicks, '93 Suns, and '96 Sonics. Certainly better than the '92 Cavs IMO.

The 1997 Jazz gave the Bulls quite a test in the Finals. Though part of that was Scottie injuring himself in the first round v.s. the Bullets. The start of crippling back injuries that would derail the rest of his career.

By '98 the Bulls, even on their last legs running on fumes promptly destroyed the Jazz though. With an injured Scottie Pippen. They were much weaker that season. Pacers gave that Bulls team a bigger test.

I think it's unfair to act like Chicago during the dynasty era didn't face quality teams. Of their Finals opponents, yes the '93, and '96 Sonics were the best. I guess you're right in that they faced their greater tests, particularly defenses in their own conference.

See the brutal '97 Heat, '92, and '93 Knick defenses.

[Duncan21formvp]

'98 Pacers

PG: Mark Jackson/Travis Best
SG: Reggie Miller/Jalen Rose
SF: Chris Mullin/Derrick McKey
PF: Dale Davis/Mark Pope
C: Rik Smits/Antonio Davis

vs

'14 Pacers

PG: George Hill/C.J. Watson
SG: Paul George/Chris Copeland
SF: Lance Stephenson/Evan Turner
PF: David West/Lavoy Allen/Luis Scola
C: Roy Hibbert/Ian Mahinmi/Bynum

Who wins?

98 Pacers in 5.

[DonDadda59]

'14 Pacers. Really gotta see how they click in the playoffs doe.

OT, but when you think about it, those Bulls teams didnt really face great competition in the finals.

-93 Suns
-96 Sonics

I thought the 91 Lakers were older (and injured), Jazz small and overrated chokers (see Malone), and the the Blazers, while great, were just blah.

Too bad the 80s Lakers and Celtics were shells of themselves. Miami would probably beat all of those teams above, too.

We're talking about the same team that was embarrassed by the Mavericks and only beat a Jurassic era Spurs team because of a miracle by Jesus himself? :biggums:

The Jazz had to go through the Hakeem/Barkley/Drexler Rockets, Robinson/Duncan spurs and the stacked Shaq Lakers in '97 &'98 to even get to the finals. If Michael Jordan doesn't exist, they most likely win 2 championships.