So why doesnt loyalty apply to teams?

[livinglegend]

Allen got hated for not being loyal.
Lebron...
and many other players

but why arent the pacers getting thrashed for dumping Granger or Lakers for dumping Fisher?

[HomieWeMajor]

There is no loyalty in business.

[livinglegend]

There is no loyalty in business.

why did people hate Allen for leaving Celtics?

[M47]

There is no loyalty in business.

/thread

I feel bad for Granger though, even if I didn't like him that much

[K.Koscik]

why did people hate Allen for leaving Celtics?

I think that was KG's over intensifying ass and then people just kind of followed suite

[comerb]

individuals are always held to different standards than business. That's why businesses get away with illegal shit that would put an individual in prison for multiple lifetimes.

[HomieWeMajor]

why did people hate Allen for leaving Celtics?
Why do people hate on people that have no effect on their lives ?
Cause they dumb bro

[moe94]

There is no loyalty in business.

Players need to stay loyal as fans and owners treat them like chess pieces!

[TheReal Kendall]

There is no loyalty in business.

This

[BlackWhiteGreen]

why did people hate Allen for leaving Celtics?

Because he took the easy way out.
Because he took less money.
Because he ran to the teams' biggest rival.
Because he chased a ring.

[livinglegend]

Because he took the easy way out.
Because he took less money.
Because he ran to the teams' biggest rival.
Because he chased a ring.
- Every player s goal is to a ring. Chasing a ring is normal. He helped Heat win the ring.
- He can run wherever he wants. It s his choice.
- Biggest rival? So what? He doesnt owe Celtics anything. They traded him to Grizzlies when against his wishes.
- Less money? good, money isnt first priority for every1.
- Every way out? had to hit a miracle 3 to help his team win.

[oarabbus]

individuals are always held to different standards than business. That's why businesses get away with illegal shit that would put an individual in prison for multiple lifetimes.

:applause:

[livinglegend]

individuals are always held to different standards than business. That's why businesses get away with illegal shit that would put an individual in prison for multiple lifetimes.

businesses are run by individuals

[BlackWhiteGreen]

- Every player s goal is to a ring. Chasing a ring is normal. He helped Heat win the ring.
- He can run wherever he wants. It s his choice.
- Biggest rival? So what? He doesnt owe Celtics anything. They traded him to Grizzlies when against his wishes.
- Less money? good, money isnt first priority for every1.

You clearly have no sense of loyalty to anything. They paid him $50m+. They won him a ring.

He's like the guy you pay as a company to train up, and once he gets his certification he runs to a bigger company.

Don't give me "miracle 3" shit. He didn't get the rebound, or leave himself wide open.

[moe94]

You clearly have no sense of loyalty to anything. They paid him $50m+. They won him a ring.

He's like the guy you pay as a company to train up, and once he gets his certification he runs to a bigger company.

Don't give me "miracle 3" shit. He didn't get the rebound, or leave himself wide open.

Hell is wrong with you?:biggums:

You're acting like Ray is some Celtics legend who built his career there. He owed you nothing. Not a damn thing.

[livinglegend]

You clearly have no sense of loyalty to anything. They paid him $50m+. They won him a ring.

He's like the guy you pay as a company to train up, and once he gets his certification he runs to a bigger company.

Don't give me "miracle 3" shit. He didn't get the rebound, or leave himself wide open.

Now, let s look at things for another perspective.
He won a ring for the Celtics. He played well for them and when he got older, Celtics tried to dump him to Memphis. They restarted to kiss his ass when they found out that he could sign with Miami.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Hell is wrong with you?:biggums:

You're acting like Ray is some Celtics legend who built his career there. He owed you nothing. Not a damn thing.

You actually think that disgusting Kobe mark is a Celtics fan? :oldlol:

[moe94]

You actually think that disgusting Kobe mark is a Celtics fan? :oldlol:

You're thinking of someone else.....I think.

[gts]

There is no one answer, it goes both ways..

For both players and owners it's a business, the owners pay these guys a lot of money to produce on a certain level, if they can't then why should they be loyal to a player who can't produce?

The object is to win games no reason to be loyal to somebody who's not helping towards the ultimate goal... likewise with the players side, if they ownership shows no interest in actually competing, or lacks the ability to put a proper roster together the player owes no loyalty to the teams ownership.

The problem lies in times when players/teams and the fanbase blur the line between loyalty and business, sometimes teams players and fans have very different views of what loyalty is and who's supposed to be loyal to who

[diamenz]

it was different for lebron because he was and still is considered the best player on the planet. all time greats just don't do that - it isn't the 'right way to do it', as karl malone would say lol. in other words, it isn't proper.

ray allen shouldn't catch much flack for leaving the celts imo. even tho he will always be remembered as a celt, dude is a vet and has paid his dues.

[livinglegend]

it was different for lebron because he was and still is considered the best player on the planet. all time greats just don't do that - it isn't the 'right way to do it', as karl malone would say lol.

ray allen shouldn't catch much flack for leaving the celts imo. even tho he will always be remembered as a celt, dude is a vet and has paid his dues.

care to explain why it isnt the right way?

[pauk]

Because he took the easy way out.
Because he chased a ring.

He didnt do that by teaming up with KG, Pierce, Rondo?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

You're thinking of someone else.....I think.

Oh snap..you're right. deleted my other post lol

[diamenz]

care to explain why it isnt the right way?

not much to explain really...

for example - i love mj, but if he would have jumped ship and joined olajuwon because he couldn't win in chi i wouldn't look at him the same way. i guess you can call it the measure of a man.

[livinglegend]

not much to explain really...

for example - i love mj, but if he would have jumped ship and joined olajuwon because he couldn't win in chi i wouldn't look at him the same way. i guess you can call it the measure of a man.

he had the best team and one of the most stacked teams in the history, why would he team up with Olajuwon?
I am sure he would change his team if he had a Mo Williams ( who is a bench player at best) as 2nd option.

[gts]

he had the best team and one of the most stacked teams in the history, why would he team up with Olajuwon?
I am sure he would change his team if he had a Mo Williams ( who is a bench player at best) as 2nd option.

No he didn't.. he ended up with that but he struggled through many years of crud before he had a stacked team

[livinglegend]

No he didn't.. he ended up with that but he struggled through many years of crud before he had a stacked team

He got lucky and his team got better.
What if he had Mo Williams as 2nd option? Would he continue to struggle and finish his career without a ring like Barkley, Ewing and etc?

[Jailblazers7]

There is no one answer, it goes both ways..

For both players and owners it's a business, the owners pay these guys a lot of money to produce on a certain level, if they can't then why should they be loyal to a player who can't produce?

The object is to win games no reason to be loyal to somebody who's not helping towards the ultimate goal... likewise with the players side, if they ownership shows no interest in actually competing, or lacks the ability to put a proper roster together the player owes no loyalty to the teams ownership.

The problem lies in times when players/teams and the fanbase blur the line between loyalty and business, sometimes teams players and fans have very different views of what loyalty is and who's supposed to be loyal to who


Well said. I think people hold players to a higher standard because fans always want to see what is best for the team. If a player leaves, he is a traitor because he abandoned your team. If a team move on, it is just what needs to be done for the greater good.

I do find it weird how people generally side with ownership and refuse to see the players perspective but it is just the general selfishness of fan psychology. I thought Kobe's tweets about his contract extension would help people to have a little perspective on things but that's probably asking too much.

[diamenz]

he had the best team and one of the most stacked teams in the history, why would he team up with Olajuwon?
I am sure he would change his team if he had a Mo Williams ( who is a bench player at best) as 2nd option.

it's an example, i'm not trying to get into it with you here about mj. the first three peat bulls weren't stacked in the same sense that other teams have been stacked. grant and pippen were drafted in and learned to be winners. the second three peat bulls were stacked.

if lebron was an older washed up version of himself like malone and payton on the lakers, or clyde on the rockets that would be diff. at that point it's like yeah - guy deserves a ring, let's try to get him one. pay your dues first. it was a little too early for lebron to be jumping ship.

[gts]

He got lucky and his team got better.
What if he had Mo Williams as 2nd option? Would he continue to struggle and finish his career without a ring like Barkley, Ewing and etc?

Lebron's a funny case when you talk about loyalty.. I have no problem with him leaving Cleveland. They paid him well, he played about as well as he could, things didn't fall into place and he wanted to move on. there's nothing wrong there it is a business first and foremost

but and it's a big but

he laid the groundwork for a ton of criticism and I have no problem with those that think he flipped off the Cavs fans/organization.

He made a ton of promises he never meant to keep...

[gts]

Well said. I think people hold players to a higher standard because fans always want to see what is best for the team. If a player leaves, he is a traitor because he abandoned your team. If a team move on, it is just what needs to be done for the greater good.

I do find it weird how people generally side with ownership and refuse to see the players perspective but it is just the general selfishness of fan psychology. I thought Kobe's tweets about his contract extension would help people to have a little perspective on things but that's probably asking too much.

good post


You're right there is a very emotional aspect to it all, you can't overlook that on any level and no two situations will be alike, in fact the situations can turn on a dime and the reactions will follow suit...

[BlackWhiteGreen]

He didnt do that by teaming up with KG, Pierce, Rondo?

"teaming up"? He was traded there when Rondo was an unknown rookie, and KG wasn't there.

You're saying you wouldn't have done Ray Allen for OJ Mayo and a 1st? Hell, you'd do it now, even with him rotting in Memphis.

He ran to Miami because he wanted a ring. No more, no less.

[9512]

businesses are run by individuals

Those individuals have the money and hence the power to extricate themselves out of any accountability.

[TheCorporation]

Here is another point I like to bring up when people mention "loyalty" with players to teams. Most of these "loyal" players won a Championship, or multiples, with a short period of time being on the team.

Players who are touted as loyal:

Ducan - But he won a Championship after playing with San Antonio for TWO years

Bryant - But he won a Championship after playing with LA for FOUR years

Wade - But he won a Championship after playing with Miami for THREE years

I can guarantee you that most "loyal" players are "loyal" because their team won very early in their careers, and most times multiple (Duncan and his other 3 in 03, 05, 07 and Kobe and his other four in 01, 02, 09, 10. And Wade's other two in 12, 13).

So not really sure if "loyal" is the word when you're a player that is drafted to a great team that has won multiple championships early in your career and you don't want to leave them lol Maybe the word is: Not a ****ing idiot lol Because you'd have to be an idiot to want to leave that. Yeah, I can surely see LeBron winning in Cleveland in his second, third, or fourth year like Duncan/Kobe/Wade and wanting to leave lol Yeah right.

One of the only loyal players I can think of that didn't leave and still won a Championship much later in their careers are:

Players that waited a long time, stayed loyal and won:

Dirk waited 13 years and got his ring
Pierce waited 10 years and got his ring

Players that waited a long time, stayed loyal and did not win:
Stockton
Malone (Waited too long, yes he did eventually leave to LAL but that was well past his prime days and after MULTIPLE seasons with Utah).


Players that did wait a long time, left, and won:
Garnett
LeBron
Rasheed Wallace
Ray Allen (Twice lol)
Battier (I consider 5 years or more to be a long enough time)

Just off the top, regarding more recent NBA history

[secund2nun]

You clearly have no sense of loyalty to anything. They paid him $50m+. They won him a ring.

He's like the guy you pay as a company to train up, and once he gets his certification he runs to a bigger company.

Don't give me "miracle 3" shit. He didn't get the rebound, or leave himself wide open.

Boston tried to trade Ray away yet Ray should be blindly loyal to Boston? Do you bend over for your boss at work this way?

Also Ray played a big role in that ring. Saying they won him a ring is ridiculous.

[Boston C's]

He didnt do that by teaming up with KG, Pierce, Rondo?

Rondo was a nobody back then and k.g wasn't in boston yet...ray didn't even want to leave seattle when he was first traded to boston he was pretty pissed because he wanted to help mold k.d until he was ready to takeover the team after he got too old to be a franchise player

not trying to bash k.g but if anything you can say that he teamed up with ray and pierce...k.g wanted no part of boston when boston tried to trade for him...only when ray was traded there did he become interested in going to boston and the deal went down

[BasedTom]

IMO, a team's front office being "loyal" to its players is a long term investment. Look at Kobe's contract. It's a terrible one that will probably guarantee that the Lakers will not contend for the next few years. But it sends a message that they reward the guys that stay with the team. (Well, there's also the Pau gasol being almost traded every year thing, and Jerry Buss being dead kind of adds question marks)

Even after Tim Duncan is out of the league, hell, even after Pop decides to retire, I can see the Spurs being good. Because players are going to want to play in San Antonio since they feel confident that the organization is run well. The same applies to the Heat and a few other teams

And then there's the Knicks...Let's not go there

[FireDavidKahn]

Allen got hated for not being loyal.
Lebron...
and many other players

but why arent the pacers getting thrashed for dumping Granger or Lakers for dumping Fisher?
Pacers held onto Granger two years too long. That's being loyal...

[kentatm]

Allen got hated for not being loyal.
Lebron...
and many other players

but why arent the pacers getting thrashed for dumping Granger or Lakers for dumping Fisher?


:roll:

why do people still not get that it wasnt THAT LeBron left but HOW? :hammerhead:

[TheCorporation]

:roll:

why do people still not get that it wasnt THAT LeBron left but HOW? :hammerhead:

Business decision on his part, wanted to choose his fate, so to speak. 3 consecutive Finals trips and winning back-to-back with Finals MVP honors. Hmm, I think it worked out for him.

:hammerhead:

Dare I say he made the right decision?

:hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead:

[AnaheimLakers24]

cleveland was loyal to bran but hes not a loyal person.

[DaSeba5]

cleveland was loyal to bran but hes not a loyal person.

He gave them 7 years. It's not that he left, but how he left.

[DMV2]

You clearly have no sense of loyalty to anything. They paid him $50m+. They won him a ring.

He's like the guy you pay as a company to train up, and once he gets his certification he runs to a bigger company.

Don't give me "miracle 3" shit. He didn't get the rebound, or leave himself wide open.
So Allen didn't earn his 2008 ring? He basically was "co-MVP" in that series, especially that Game 4 in LA.

[wakencdukest]

Allen got hated for not being loyal.
Lebron...
and many other players

but why arent the pacers getting thrashed for dumping Granger or Lakers for dumping Fisher?






Because when a team is paying you millions upon millions and you aren't doing shit, that's when loyalty ends.