What will it take for an NBA (perimeter) player to pass Michael Jordan?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

-rings?
-finals mvps?
-aesthetic hi-lites?
-statistical dominance?
-media coverage?

OR just a combination of everything? :confusedshrug:

discuss

[moe94]

The game to change drastically to the point Jordan himself seems archaic.

[Illuminati]

LeBron James.

[SilkkTheShocker]

LeBron James.

this.

[Keno]

LeBron James.


this.

this

[DonDadda59]

A terminator sent via time machine to 1962 Brooklyn to kill Deloris Jordan.

[Jailblazers7]

Probably for a good 15-20 years until there is a full generation of adults that never saw him play live. I think Jordan will always be a god to most of my generation and anyone above it.

[SamuraiSWISH]

A terminator sent via time machine to 1962 Brooklyn to kill Deloris Jordan.
Pretty Much

[Random_Guy]

IMO, to the general fan, you can't pass Jordan with accolades, I'm sure someone will pass him one day though

[Flash31]

-rings?
-finals mvps?
-aesthetic hi-lites?
-statistical dominance?
-media coverage?

OR just a combination of everything? :confusedshrug:

discuss


rings and FINALS MVPS? BILL RUSSELL is ahead ALL-TIME

Aesthetic highlioghts?WTF KIND OF ARBITRARY CRAP IS THAT-WHAT KIND OF CRITERIA IS THAT ANYWAY?
But if going by that route---------Vince Carter,Dwyane Wade,Stephen Curry,Chris Paul,Allen Iverson,mAGIC jOHNSON,lARRY bIRD are all more aesthetically pleasing and have more highlights


Statistical DOMINANCE--Really?
John Stockton,Wilt Chamberlain,Bill Russell,Kareem Abdul Jaabar,Oscar Robertson,LeBron James
are either ALREADY More statistically dominant or will be



so the first 4 he's not FIRST AT ALL

THE MAIN Important one where even today you have people 24/7 on his balls and where you can't say one negative thing about him and he's praised like a gawd 24/7 with the media blowing him all the time and sweeping all his faults and basketball failures away
NOBODY WILL TOUCH

Even today we have 6/6 ALL THAT MATTERS,NEVER LOST like somehow it's better to lose in first round than Finals
Oh Wilt had better stats--but 2 rings
Russell won everything---b b but "weak era" "STACKEDZ"
Kareem was better--b b but Jordan was a guard so he's better,Kareem had Magic



Nobody will touch Jordan today in GOAT bc the contenders have been brought down or dismissed or trashed with MJ getting 24/7 hype and the potential contenders have ALL OF THEIR FAILURES Spotlighted MORE.

No player evr has had the media on them like Jordan and never will.The League pushed MJ and made rules to benefit him.He was,is and will always be the leagues most protected and ref managed star.

When people nowadays believe Pippen was JUST a sidekick and not one of goat defenders and best sf-come on.
The BULLS had the BEST Team in the 90s every year by a good margin.

But nowadays teams like those Bulls would get a STACKEDZ comment.
MJ lost to the same team multiple times in a row-DET
But if players did that nowadays it would be called choking,failing,loser
MJ checked his stats during every pause in the game-nowadays--yeah


We see all the players faults and failures now.But with Jordan,the media and NBA hid all his faults and swept his failures away.
If you think KD and Harden are protected nowadays,MJ was 20 times worse.
If you think LJ and Kobe had failures-MJs were worse.
If you think Howard,Bynum have bad egos-MJs was worse.




Media is perception and Perception is Reality.

[LAZERUSS]

Lebron is currently the only player who has any chance.

[Le Shaqtus]

Lebron is currently the only player who has any chance.

Not at all.

2nd best is his ceiling.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

rings and FINALS MVPS? BILL RUSSELL is ahead ALL-TIME

The topic pertains to PERIMETER players. Goof.

[navy]

Lebron is currently the only player who has any chance.

Even then it is slim. Lebron has to win like 6-7 rings, which probably wont happen. And he has to play a good 7-8 more years .

[russwest0]

A terminator sent via time machine to 1962 Brooklyn to kill Deloris Jordan.

This.

[Brook(lyn)Lopez]

A great marketing campaign and public relations reps.

[russwest0]

The GOAT will never be touched.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lkwkhfsvDN1qcjcu1o1_500.jpg

[215Philly]

Wiggins or Jabari :bowdown:

[aboss4real24]

jus go look at wat lebron is doing


There ya go

[russwest0]

jus go look at wat lebron is doing


There ya go

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=302139

:wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:

[theoneneo]

jus go look at wat lebron is doing


There ya go

The same Lebron who needed a finals MVP winner and a top 5 pf to win his first ring?

The same Lebron who got shut down by Boris Diaw(shot under 40% outside the paint or some shit)

Righttt:lol

He realistically won't be surpassed considering Kobe, the guy who was billed to be the next Jordan has won 5 rings, over 30k points, 3rd greatest scorer of all time, 81 point game... and to many there's still a wide margin between the two of them. So chances are not likely.

[riseagainst]

rings and FINALS MVPS? BILL RUSSELL is ahead ALL-TIME

Aesthetic highlioghts?WTF KIND OF ARBITRARY CRAP IS THAT-WHAT KIND OF CRITERIA IS THAT ANYWAY?
But if going by that route---------Vince Carter,Dwyane Wade,Stephen Curry,Chris Paul,Allen Iverson,mAGIC jOHNSON,lARRY bIRD are all more aesthetically pleasing and have more highlights


Statistical DOMINANCE--Really?
John Stockton,Wilt Chamberlain,Bill Russell,Kareem Abdul Jaabar,Oscar Robertson,LeBron James
are either ALREADY More statistically dominant or will be



so the first 4 he's not FIRST AT ALL

THE MAIN Important one where even today you have people 24/7 on his balls and where you can't say one negative thing about him and he's praised like a gawd 24/7 with the media blowing him all the time and sweeping all his faults and basketball failures away
NOBODY WILL TOUCH

Even today we have 6/6 ALL THAT MATTERS,NEVER LOST like somehow it's better to lose in first round than Finals
Oh Wilt had better stats--but 2 rings
Russell won everything---b b but "weak era" "STACKEDZ"
Kareem was better--b b but Jordan was a guard so he's better,Kareem had Magic



Nobody will touch Jordan today in GOAT bc the contenders have been brought down or dismissed or trashed with MJ getting 24/7 hype and the potential contenders have ALL OF THEIR FAILURES Spotlighted MORE.

No player evr has had the media on them like Jordan and never will.The League pushed MJ and made rules to benefit him.He was,is and will always be the leagues most protected and ref managed star.

When people nowadays believe Pippen was JUST a sidekick and not one of goat defenders and best sf-come on.
The BULLS had the BEST Team in the 90s every year by a good margin.

But nowadays teams like those Bulls would get a STACKEDZ comment.
MJ lost to the same team multiple times in a row-DET
But if players did that nowadays it would be called choking,failing,loser
MJ checked his stats during every pause in the game-nowadays--yeah


We see all the players faults and failures now.But with Jordan,the media and NBA hid all his faults and swept his failures away.
If you think KD and Harden are protected nowadays,MJ was 20 times worse.
If you think LJ and Kobe had failures-MJs were worse.
If you think Howard,Bynum have bad egos-MJs was worse.




Media is perception and Perception is Reality.


this whole post is literally the biggest pile of horse sh1t i've ever read.

Half the players u mentioned for rings/fmvps stats are centers, who aren't even relevant in this thread.

Oscar, John Stockton and LEbron are all already more dominant statistically than Jordan?
:lol :roll:
:oldlol:
:biggums:
:wtf:
:coleman:

but let's just go with your Bill Russell has more rings and fmvps than MJ. No he does not. Russell = 11 rings, MJ = 6+6 = 12. Don't know simple math?
:coleman:

And :lol @ almost (if not) all the players you listed who are more "aesthetically pleasing" than MJ. None of those players you listed have a more aesthetically pleasing game than MJ. Aesthetically pleasing =/= highlight reel.

again, biggest troll post and I can't believe I actually typed out several paragraphs for that pile of sh1t.
:coleman:

[DonDadda59]

A great marketing campaign and public relations reps.

Like every star player today doesn't have that? :oldlol:

Plus there's the internet that allows them to reach people in ways Jordan and his endorsers in the 80-90s could never have dreamed of. What a lame excuse.

[aboss4real24]

The same Lebron who needed a finals MVP winner and a top 5 pf to win his first ring?

The same Lebron who got shut down by Boris Diaw(shot under 40% outside the paint or some shit)

Righttt:lol

He realistically won't be surpassed considering Kobe, the guy who was billed to be the next Jordan has won 5 rings, over 30k points, 3rd greatest scorer of all time, 81 point game... and to many there's still a wide margin between the two of them. So chances are not likely.


Lmao dude made himself look dum,kOBE REALLY?

LB surpassed KB Without any rings, But since he has the rings those r jus the final nail in that kobe comparison coffin , hes a better player at every aspect , Kobe mite jus be a bttr shooter Bout It,

Kd is also on his way to passing Kb pretty soon...

if i recall Wat was MJs record without pippen in the finals? O Ok

Wade a top5 player? yea in 2010 the year they got together and they lost...
so that argument is irrelevant, wade hasnt even been a top 10 player since that yr

Bosh is a top 5 Pf in a era with the weakest Big Men in history......

and Lebron beat a stacced Pacer tm without bosh and a injuried Dwade sumtn i doubt mj wouldv dun

Pippen missed that gm vs det , and det won the clincher in offs

[secund2nun]

Lebron will pass Jordan.

[secund2nun]

A great marketing campaign and public relations reps.

Don't forget the league changing rules in your favor as well.

[TheCorporation]

Well, he will need to be on a team with the best coach in NBA, and possibly sports history. (Jackson)

Then he will need a sharp shooter clutch 3-point shooter that shoots these percentages during the regular season: 52%, 52%, 46% (Kerr)

Then he will need the greatest rebounder in NBA history, someone that has won the rebounding title award a record 7 consecutive times. Someone that averaged 15-16 per game, and was an amazing defensive player as well. In fact, someone who has won the DPOY award back-to-back as well. (Rodman)

Then he will need the 6th man of the year, too. (Kukoc)

Then he will need one of the best two-way players of all time. Someone that can consistently give you 20-6-6 with 2 steals and a block per game. A god among men defending the perimeter, and an underrated scorer. (Pippen)

But yeah, that's a start at all it would take for an NBA (perimeter) player to pass Michael Jordan. Find me a team like that and we can go from there lol

[aboss4real24]

Well, he will need to be on a team with the best coach in NBA, and possibly sports history. (Jackson)

Then he will need a sharp shooter clutch 3-point shooter that shoots these percentages during the regular season: 52%, 52%, 46% (Kerr)

Then he will need the greatest rebounder in NBA history, someone that has won the rebounding title award a record 7 consecutive times. Someone that averaged 15-16 per game, and was an amazing defensive player as well. In fact, someone who has won the DPOY award back-to-back as well. (Rodman)

Then he will need the 6th man of the year, too. (Kukoc)

Then he will need one of the best two-way players of all time. Someone that can consistently give you 20-6-6 with 2 steals and a block per game. A god among men defending the perimeter, and an underrated scorer. (Pippen)

But yeah, that's a start at all it would take for an NBA (perimeter) player to pass Michael Jordan. Find me a team like that and we can go from there lol


Lmao of course the JordanTards will ignore this Lmao :oldlol:

[DonDadda59]

Don't forget the league changing rules in your favor as well.

Yes, lest we forget...


"Our rules are focused on keeping the middle open to offer more opportunities for players to cut & penetrate to the basket. When we disallowed the use of the hand & forearm to the body, the defensive 3-second rule in conjunction with the hand check interpretation gave offensive players on the perimeter more offensive freedom."

- Stu Jackson; NBA Exec. VP of Operations; "Season Review with Stu Jackson", May 5, 2007

Keep working at it, I'm sure you boys will find the right formula eventually.

[TheCorporation]

Lmao of course the JordanTards will ignore this Lmao :oldlol:

Yep, we both know they will :lol

We can't even find a team as talented as Jordan's HELP lol

[DonDadda59]

Well, he will need to be on a team with the best coach in NBA, and possibly sports history. (Jackson)

Kobe had the same coach AND arguably the most dominant force in NBA History as a teammate... raise your hand if you think Kobe>Jordan. Exactly, didn't think so.


Then he will need a sharp shooter clutch 3-point shooter that shoots these percentages during the regular season: 52%, 52%, 46% (Kerr)

:oldlol:

Steve Kerr averaged 8 PPG during his Bulls stint and Jordan already had 3 rings and 3 finals MVPs before he joined the team.


Then he will need the greatest rebounder in NBA history, someone that has won the rebounding title award a record 7 consecutive times. Someone that averaged 15-16 per game, and was an amazing defensive player as well. In fact, someone who has won the DPOY award back-to-back as well. (Rodman)

Again, Jordan already had 3 rings and 3 finals MVPs before a 34 year old Rodman joined the squad.


Then he will need the 6th man of the year, too. (Kukoc)

I'm noticing a pattern here :oldlol:

3 rings, 3 finals MVPs w/o the bench player.


Then he will need one of the best two-way players of all time. Someone that can consistently give you 20-6-6 with 2 steals and a block per game. A god among men defending the perimeter, and an underrated scorer. (Pippen)

Pippen was a notorious choke artist whose shortcomings and migraines cost the Bulls possibly a 7th ring when he completely disappeared against the Pistons in game 7. Pip also missed roughly half the '98 season after back surgery. Jordan led the team to the best record in the league. Won MVP, the scoring title, All star MVP, finals MVP (with legendary last second heroics, 45 pts, and the iconic game winner... Pip had 8 points that game)... at age 35.


But yeah, that's a start at all it would take for an NBA (perimeter) player to pass Michael Jordan. Find me a team like that and we can go from there lol

Done.

http://prosportsextra.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/HEAT.jpg

http://www.mediabistro.com/fishbowlny/files/2012/08/lakers-600x600.jpg

Keep reaching. It's funny as hell to watch :lol

[Rasheed1]

A terminator sent via time machine to 1962 Brooklyn to kill Deloris Jordan.

:oldlol: that's good... I liked that

[Prometheus]

rings and FINALS MVPS? BILL RUSSELL is ahead ALL-TIME

Aesthetic highlioghts?WTF KIND OF ARBITRARY CRAP IS THAT-WHAT KIND OF CRITERIA IS THAT ANYWAY?
But if going by that route---------Vince Carter,Dwyane Wade,Stephen Curry,Chris Paul,Allen Iverson,mAGIC jOHNSON,lARRY bIRD are all more aesthetically pleasing and have more highlights


Statistical DOMINANCE--Really?
John Stockton,Wilt Chamberlain,Bill Russell,Kareem Abdul Jaabar,Oscar Robertson,LeBron James
are either ALREADY More statistically dominant or will be



so the first 4 he's not FIRST AT ALL

THE MAIN Important one where even today you have people 24/7 on his balls and where you can't say one negative thing about him and he's praised like a gawd 24/7 with the media blowing him all the time and sweeping all his faults and basketball failures away
NOBODY WILL TOUCH

Even today we have 6/6 ALL THAT MATTERS,NEVER LOST like somehow it's better to lose in first round than Finals
Oh Wilt had better stats--but 2 rings
Russell won everything---b b but "weak era" "STACKEDZ"
Kareem was better--b b but Jordan was a guard so he's better,Kareem had Magic



Nobody will touch Jordan today in GOAT bc the contenders have been brought down or dismissed or trashed with MJ getting 24/7 hype and the potential contenders have ALL OF THEIR FAILURES Spotlighted MORE.

No player evr has had the media on them like Jordan and never will.The League pushed MJ and made rules to benefit him.He was,is and will always be the leagues most protected and ref managed star.

When people nowadays believe Pippen was JUST a sidekick and not one of goat defenders and best sf-come on.
The BULLS had the BEST Team in the 90s every year by a good margin.

But nowadays teams like those Bulls would get a STACKEDZ comment.
MJ lost to the same team multiple times in a row-DET
But if players did that nowadays it would be called choking,failing,loser
MJ checked his stats during every pause in the game-nowadays--yeah


We see all the players faults and failures now.But with Jordan,the media and NBA hid all his faults and swept his failures away.
If you think KD and Harden are protected nowadays,MJ was 20 times worse.
If you think LJ and Kobe had failures-MJs were worse.
If you think Howard,Bynum have bad egos-MJs was worse.




Media is perception and Perception is Reality.

http://weknowgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/didnt-read-lol-gif-4.gif

[TheCorporation]

In order to try and emulate the team Jordan was on we would need to put the following on the same team:

Rodman would be...Dwight? I guess he is the closest thing, having won multiple DPOY and Rebouding Titles

Okay, so we have D12, Now Pippen. I think that's easy choice, Paul George. Not an amazing scorer, but good, and can have flashes of brilliance. A tough 3 that can guard multiple positions, length, great on defense. Okay, so Paul George for Pippen (I might even be underrating Pip here but bare with me, I am trying to duplicate as close as we can in 2014).

Now we need a 6th man, we can go with Harden who recently won the award. Okay so we now have James Harden.

Now, the killer 3-point shooter. Steph Curry scores way to much to be put on Kerr's level, but maybe not Ray Allen, Okay, so we have Ray Allen.

Coach, best coach in NBA history and possibly all sports, well, no one is close so we will just say Jackson is back and his normal 3-peating self during his Chicago and LA days.


Alright so I did my best to replicate MJ's team and we have:

James Harden
Paul George
Dwight Howard
Ray Allen

LOL And the one and only, Michael Jordan. Do we get the point here, people? Let's swap MJ for LBJ.

So we now have:

PG: James Harden
SG: Ray Allen
SF: Paul George
PF: LeBron James
C: Dwight Howard


With Phil Jackson at the helm. I think they'd 3 peat, what about you guys?

[russwest0]

Huh, Jordan never played with James Harden or Dwight

[Prometheus]

In order to try and emulate the team Jordan was on we would need to put the following on the same team:

Rodman would be...Dwight? I guess he is the closest thing, having won multiple DPOY and Rebouding Titles

Okay, so we have D12, Now Pippen. I think that's easy choice, Paul George. Not an amazing scorer, but good, and can have flashes of brilliance. A tough 3 that can guard multiple positions, length, great on defense. Okay, so Paul George for Pippen (I might even be underrating Pip here but bare with me, I am trying to duplicate as close as we can in 2014).

Now we need a 6th man, we can go with Harden who recently won the award. Okay so we now have James Harden.

Now, the killer 3-point shooter. Steph Curry scores way to much to be put on Kerr's level, but maybe not Ray Allen, Okay, so we have Ray Allen.

Coach, best coach in NBA history and possibly all sports, well, no one is close so we will just say Jackson is back and his normal 3-peating self during his Chicago and LA days.


Alright so I did my best to replicate MJ's team and we have:

James Harden
Paul George
Dwight Howard
Ray Allen

LOL And the one and only, Michael Jordan. Do we get the point here, people? Let's swap MJ for LBJ.

So we now have:

PG: James Harden
SG: Ray Allen
SF: Paul George
PF: LeBron James
C: Dwight Howard


With Phil Jackson at the helm. I think they'd 3 peat, what about you guys?

:facepalm

[DonDadda59]

In order to try and emulate the team Jordan was on we would need to put the following on the same team:

Rodman would be...Dwight? I guess he is the closets thing, having won multiple DPOY and Rebouding Titles.

Okay, so we have D12, Now Pippen. I think that's easy choice, Paul George. Not an amazing scorer, but good, and can have flashes of brilliance. A tough 3 that can guard multiple positions, length, great on defense. Okay, so Paul George for Pippen (I might even be underrating Pip here but bare with me, I am trying to duplicate as close as we can in 2014).

Now we need a 6th man, we can go with Harden who recently won the award. Okay so we now have James Harden.

Now, the killer 3-point shooter. Steph Curry scores way to much to be put on Kerr's level, but maybe not Ray Allen, Okay, so we have Ray Allen.

Coach, best coach in NBA history and possibly all sports, well, no one is close so we will just say Jackson is back and his normal 3-peating self during his Chicago and LA days.


Alright so I did my best to replicate MJ's team and we have:

James Harden
Paul George
Dwight Howard
Ray Allen

LOL And the one and only, Michael Jordan. Do we get the point here, people? Let's swap MJ for LBJ.

So we now have:

PG: James Harden
SG: Ray Allen
SF: Paul George
PF: LeBron James
C: Dwight Howard


With Phil Jackson at the helm. I think they'd 3 peat, what about you guys?

:lol

Troll on, homie. Troll on.

Just an FYI for the future doe- Michael Jordan did in fact play basketball before the age of 33.

[JUDGE WITNESS]

lebron has already done it

[TheCorporation]

Huh, Jordan never played with James Harden or Dwight

Congratulations.

[aboss4real24]

Kobe had the same coach AND arguably the most dominant force in NBA History as a teammate... raise your hand if you think Kobe>Jordan. Exactly, didn't think so.



:oldlol:

Steve Kerr averaged 8 PPG during his Bulls stint and Jordan already had 3 rings and 3 finals MVPs before he joined the team.



Again, Jordan already had 3 rings and 3 finals MVPs before a 34 year old Rodman joined the squad.



I'm noticing a pattern here :oldlol:

3 rings, 3 finals MVPs w/o the bench player.



Pippen was a notorious choke artist whose shortcomings and migraines cost the Bulls possibly a 7th ring when he completely disappeared against the Pistons in game 7. Pip also missed roughly half the '98 season after back surgery. Jordan led the team to the best record in the league. Won MVP, the scoring title, All star MVP, finals MVP (with legendary last second heroics, 45 pts, and the iconic game winner... Pip had 8 points that game)... at age 35.



Done.

http://prosportsextra.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/HEAT.jpg

http://www.mediabistro.com/fishbowlny/files/2012/08/lakers-600x600.jpg

Keep reaching. It's funny as hell to watch :lol

http://wagesofwins.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/kobe-malone-shaq-payton-174979_480_art_R0.jpeg

:oldlol:

[Prometheus]

Not only do I not think it will happen, I don't want it to happen. MJ is GOAT and also the all-time coolest player. If he is no longer the greatest, then the world just feels wrong.

[NumberSix]

The same Lebron who needed a finals MVP winner and a top 5 pf to win his first ring?
Not everybody can be like Jordan and play in an era with no good teams to play against.

Oh wait.....

He did play in an era with good teams. He just didn't win until those teams were gone.

[TheCorporation]

MJ's Bulls were stacked to the high heavens and only an idiot would think otherwise...

No one can refute shit I said. This DonDodda/DanSebba whatever Guy got nothing on me.

[TheCorporation]

Not everybody can be like Jordan and play in an era with no good teams to play against.

Oh wait.....

He did play in an era with good teams. He just didn't win until those teams were gone.

MJ was a 1st round exit master before acquiring aforementioned talents in my previous posts. Knocked out of the 1st round 3 consecutive years, then the 2nd round the next year lol

4 Melo type playoff runs lol

Good thing he acquired more talent or his career might've looked like Melo/AI. Lots of individual talent, great scorer, but not going anywhere.

[livinglegend]

MJ was a 1st round exit master before acquiring aforementioned talents in my previous posts. Knocked out of the 1st round 3 consecutive years, then the 2nd round the next year lol

Jordan is overrated.

[russwest0]

MJ was a 1st round exit master before acquiring aforementioned talents in my previous posts. Knocked out of the 1st round 3 consecutive years, then the 2nd round the next year lol

4 Melo type playoff runs lol

Good thing he acquired more talent or his career might've looked like Melo/AI. Lots of individual talent, great scorer, but not going anywhere.

Damn, makes you wonder why he stuck in Chicago instead of running off to team up with a FMVP/all star starter and another all star starter.

[LAZERUSS]

Jordan won his first of six rings and FMVPs at age 27, with two MVPs. Lebron is 29 and already has two rings, two FMVPs, and four MVPs. I don't see it as an impossibility that he could surpass MJ.

[JellyBean]

It will have to be a combination of things: skill, media savvy, drive and determination, attitude, rings on the championship level, complete game, being with a low level team and taking that team to the top, and building a player up to become your wing man. Oh one more thing, having a rival team that knocks you down an around year after year after year.

[DonDadda59]

Not everybody can be like Jordan and play in an era with no good teams to play against.

Oh wait.....

He did play in an era with good teams. He just didn't win until those teams were gone.

Should've quit on his team when it got too hard to get past the Pistons, especially after Pippen and Horace completely shat the bed in game 7 in '90 and in all likelihood cost him what should've been the first of 7 championships. Should've gone on National TV to spit in Chicago's face and wave the white flag and announce he was teaming up with Charles Bark and Clyde in Portland.

Actually, the formula is you have to team up with a guy who already won a championship and finals MVP without you, right? Clyde doesn't fit the bill.

Should he have joined up with Isaiah and Charles? Is that right? :confusedshrug:


MJ's Bulls were stacked to the high heavens and only an idiot would think otherwise...

No one can refute shit I said. This DonDodda/DanSebba whatever Guy got nothing on me.

That'll do pig, that'll do :applause:

[livinglegend]

Damn, makes you wonder why he stuck in Chicago instead of running off to team up with a FMVP/all star starter and another all star starter.

jordan had one of the most stacked teams of all-time, why would he change his team?

[TheCorporation]

Should've quit on his team when it got too hard to get past the Pistons, especially after Pippen and Horace completely shat the bed in game 7 in '90 and in all likelihood cost him what should've been the first of 7 championships. Should've gone on National TV to spit in Chicago's face and wave the white flag and announce he was teaming up with Charles Bark and Clyde in Portland.

Actually, the formula is you have to team up with a guy who already won a championship and finals MVP without you, right? Clyde doesn't fit the bill.

Should he have joined up with Isaiah and Charles? Is that right? :confusedshrug:



That'll do pig, that'll do :applause:

MJ was a 1st round exit master before acquiring aforementioned talents in my previous posts. Knocked out of the 1st round 3 consecutive years, then the 2nd round the next year lol

4 Melo type playoff runs lol

Good thing he acquired more talent or his career might've looked like Melo/AI. Lots of individual talent, great scorer, but not going anywhere.

MJ might have 6 rings, but he also has 3 consecutive 1st round ass whoopins, something LBJ will never have. In fact, yes, you guessed it, LBJ has never been knocked out of the 1st round.

[DonDadda59]

jordan had one of the most stacked teams of all-time, why would he change his team?

Explain to me how Jordan had one of the most stacked teams of all time? Which team are we talking about anyway- the one with Bill Cartwright at C or the one with Luc Longley? More stacked than the 80s Celtics and Lakers? More stacked than the present day Heat? Personally I don't see how any team Jordan played on was more 'stacked' than the Shaq-Penny Magic... but would love for someone to explain that too me.

And when I mean someone, I mean with an IQ higher than a rhesus monkey, someone who doesn't think old Rodman=Dwight Howard or Steve Kerr=Steph Curry :lol

[chazzy]

Play better than him and accomplish almost as much or more than him

[aboss4real24]

Jordan stans MAKING excuses of course wat else is new:lol

[DonDadda59]

MJ was a 1st round exit master before acquiring aforementioned talents in my previous posts.

Again... Jordan played ball before age 33. The players you mentioned outside of Pippen weren't even around when Jordan won his first 3 rings. And it took a good 3-4 seasons for Pip himself to emerge as a viable second option, and even then he cost MJ a ring in '90 with his migraine nonsense.

[TheCorporation]

Explain to me how Jordan had one of the most stacked teams of all time?

Heh, must've missed it little guy. That, or "YOU DON'TS READZ SO GOOD"

Well, he will need to be on a team with the best coach in NBA, and possibly sports history. (Jackson)

Then he will need a sharp shooter clutch 3-point shooter that shoots these percentages during the regular season: 52%, 52%, 46% (Kerr)

Then he will need the greatest rebounder in NBA history, someone that has won the rebounding title award a record 7 consecutive times. Someone that averaged 15-16 per game, and was an amazing defensive player as well. In fact, someone who has won the DPOY award back-to-back as well. (Rodman)

Then he will need the 6th man of the year, too. (Kukoc)

Then he will need one of the best two-way players of all time. Someone that can consistently give you 20-6-6 with 2 steals and a block per game. A god among men defending the perimeter, and an underrated scorer. (Pippen)

But yeah, that's a start at all it would take for an NBA (perimeter) player to pass Michael Jordan. Find me a team like that and we can go from there lol

[rhowen4]

-rings
edit: -mvps
-finals mvps
-statistical dominance
-media coverage

these things will be most important.

MJ's career wasn't perfect. someone could have a similar statistical dominance while being on a contending team earlier in their career than jordan was. most likely they'll need to be an all time great scorer and passer. their numbers shouldn't decrease in the playoffs.

the thing i hope people realize is the game was played at a faster tempo back then, so people shouldn't hold that against future stars when comparing them to past greats.


Not only do I not think it will happen, I don't want it to happen. MJ is GOAT and also the all-time coolest player. If he is no longer the greatest, then the world just feels wrong.
this is the kind of thinking we shouldn't have. if someone deserves to be called better than MJ, then name them the GOAT. cool points are pointless.

that said, the game of basketball isn't that old (especially modern basketball). i think it's short sighted to suggest that no one will surpass MJ, unless you subscribe to the view that the human race will off itself in the near future.

[kobeef24]

rings and FINALS MVPS? BILL RUSSELL is ahead ALL-TIME

That's due to this:


The game to change drastically to the point Jordan himself seems archaic.

For a perimeter player to pass up Jordan they're going to at least need more FMVP's. Will probably need at least 3-4 MVP's too.

[TheCorporation]

Again... Jordan played ball before age 33. The players you mentioned outside of Pippen weren't even around when Jordan won his first 3 rings. And it took a good 3-4 seasons for Pip himself to emerge as a viable second option, and even then he cost MJ a ring in '90 with his migraine nonsense.

Are you telling me that Jordan failed to get out of the 1st/2nd round 4 years in a row before he had good teammates? Are you telling me Jordan never went anywhere without Pippen And Phil Jackson? Not to mention Horace Grant, and Rodman, Kukoc, Kerr, Armstrong, etc. Imagine that, a player needing a TEAM to win it all. And here I thought Jordan did so well without Jackson and Pippen, but alas, he was just like Melo getting snuffed in the 1st round :roll:

[DonDadda59]

Heh, must've missed it little guy. That, or "YOU DON'TS READZ SO GOOD"

You are proof that people should have to get a license to procreate. Your parents didn't do any favors for the gene pool or humanity's future :lol

Again... Michael Jordan played basketball before the age of 33. Had 3 rings, 3 finals MVPs, 3 MVPs, DPOY, 6 scoring titles, etc.

How exactly is having a 34 year old Rodman who averaged 5 PPG, Steve Kerr averaging 8 PPG, and Toni Kukoc coming off the bench = one of the most stacked team ever? :biggums:

How is the second 3-peat Bulls more 'stacked' than this squad:

Shaq
Grant (won 3 rings w/ Jordan)
Scott
Andersen
Penny

Or

Shaq
Campbell
Eddie Jones
Kobe
Van Exel
Fox
Horry
Fisher

Or

Hakeem Olajuwon
Charles Barkley
Scottie Pippen (won 6 championships w/ Jordan)
Cuttino Mobley
Othella Harrington

Or

Kemp
Payton
Shrempf
Perkins
Hawkins


^All teams more talented than the Bulls from just the 90s... didn't win shit. How were any incarnation of the Bulls more 'stacked' than them?

[DonDadda59]

Are you telling me that Jordan failed to get out of the 1st/2nd round 4 years in a row before he had good teammates?

What 'good teammates' are you talking about exactly? Charles Oakley? Sam Vincent?

When Jordan first made it to the ECF w/o any all star teammates, Pippen was the second best player on the team... he put up 14/6/4 after spending considerable time on the bench to start the season (put up 10/7/3 on 40% shooting against the Pistons in said ECF).

So who were these 'stacked' teammates that carried him to the ECF?


Are you telling me Jordan never went anywhere without Pippen And Phil Jackson?

Jordan was winning MVP/DPOY/Scoring titles and playoff series when Pippen was coming off the bench averaging 8 PPG. True story. Phil was coaching the Piratas de Quebradillas in Puerto Rico and the Albany Patroons in the CBA before becoming an assistant coach for the Bulls. Jordan made both of those guys careers, it most definitely was not the other way around :lol


Not to mention Horace Grant, and Rodman, Kukoc, Kerr, Armstrong, etc. Imagine that, a player needing a TEAM to win it all. And here I thought Jordan did so well without Jackson and Pippen, but alas, he was just like Melo getting snuffed in the 1st round :roll:

Melo has MVPs, DPOY, ROY, multiple scoring titles, first team selections on par with Jordan in his first few seasons? Does he even have a fourth of '89 Jordan's accomplishments 11 years into his career? :biggums:

His all star patches say yes :lol

[Angel Face]

A terminator sent via time machine to 1962 Brooklyn to kill Deloris Jordan.

This one right here. No one is passing MJ as of today.

[Keno]

seriously tho how overrated is jordan? as someone already pointed out in this thread, jordan couldn't win until all the good teams/players were gone from the league. that was also when the nba added 4 expansion teams in the nba, the most in nba history.

[miles berg]

No one ever will. He was so much better than anyone else that has ever played.

[diamenz]

seriously tho how overrated is jordan? as someone already pointed out in this thread, jordan couldn't win until all the good teams/players were gone from the league. that was also when the nba added 4 expansion teams in the nba, the most in nba history.

and lebron couldn't win until he jumped ship to miami. well, two years after the jump.

stop making lebron fans look bad.

what would it take? it would take a player to do everything michael did, but better.

[Sarcastic]

Win 4 rings. Retire for 1.5 years. Come back and win 4 rings.

The player that does that will surpass Jordan.

[diamenz]

i also love how lebron stans call the first three peat bulls stacked. grant and pippen were drafted in and learned to be winners. the next best player on that team was paxso and if you're calling that stacked you need to check urself.

the second three peat bulls were stacked.

[fpliii]

Play the game of basketball at a higher level for a good amount of time (obviously winning a good number championships in the process). Arbitrary accolades are meaningless in this discussion.

[jstern]

Extremely clutch, while dominating the same way that Jordan dominated. Near perfect career.

Another major thing that made Jordan magical was I guess the revenge factor, where if he felt slighted, or the media said he wasn't good at this or that, he would turn a switch on and perform at will. That needs to be describe better, but I can't at the moment.

Basically extremely dominant, extremely clutch, and a will power that literally stronger than anybody than anyone in the world.

I guess they would have to have Jordan's will power and have a better career.

[diamenz]

Extremely clutch, while dominating the same way that Jordan dominated. Near perfect career.

Another major thing that made Jordan magical was I guess the revenge factor, where if he felt slighted, or the media said he wasn't good at this or that, he would turn a switch on and perform at will. That needs to be describe better, but I can't at the moment.

Basically extremely dominant, extremely clutch, and a will power that literally stronger than anybody than anyone in the world.

I guess they would have to have Jordan's will power and have a better career.

the george karl game , or van gundy games come to mind. or the 92 finals when it was being said clyde was a better 3 point shooter than mike. or the 93 finals when they were saying mike can't take it to the hole anymore. you're right - he almost always rose to the occasion.

[Sarcastic]

seriously tho how overrated is jordan? as someone already pointed out in this thread, jordan couldn't win until all the good teams/players were gone from the league. that was also when the nba added 4 expansion teams in the nba, the most in nba history.

Jordan is underrated if anything. Pass whatever you're smoking.

[tpols]

You are proof that people should have to get a license to procreate. Your parents didn't do any favors for the gene pool or humanity's future :lol

Again... Michael Jordan played basketball before the age of 33. Had 3 rings, 3 finals MVPs, 3 MVPs, DPOY, 6 scoring titles, etc.

How exactly is having a 34 year old Rodman who averaged 5 PPG, Steve Kerr averaging 8 PPG, and Toni Kukoc coming off the bench = one of the most stacked team ever? :biggums:

How is the second 3-peat Bulls more 'stacked' than this squad:

Shaq
Grant (won 3 rings w/ Jordan)
Scott
Andersen
Penny

Or

Shaq
Campbell
Eddie Jones
Kobe
Van Exel
Fox
Horry
Fisher

Or

Hakeem Olajuwon
Charles Barkley
Scottie Pippen (won 6 championships w/ Jordan)
Cuttino Mobley
Othella Harrington

Or

Kemp
Payton
Shrempf
Perkins
Hawkins


^All teams more talented than the Bulls from just the 90s... didn't win shit. How were any incarnation of the Bulls more 'stacked' than them?

Sonics were not more stacked.. Rodman's dvantage alone on the boards and on defense is almost equal to Kemp.. funny how you listed Rodman's ppg numbers.. but not the things he does at an elite level like rebounding and defense. :oldlol:

Pippen is easily a better second option than Kemp or payton And MJ blows either out the water.. so the Bulls were more stacked.

The Bulls were more stacked than Ewing Knicks.. Hakeem Rocket(again why are you listing them when they were old and shitty? Houston Rockets were not a stacked team at that time).


Bulls lost to Shaq's team before they got rodman and after Horace Grant had left.. because they didnt have the rebounding and interior defense to compete? They NEEDED a Rodman or Grant to fill that role. They were a perfectly constructed stacked team.

If were looking at the current Heat do you want to compare current Dwayne Wade to prime Scottie Pippen? Look at the playoff numbers.. its not close.

[DonDadda59]

Sonics were not more stacked.. Rodman's dvantage alone on the boards and on defense is almost equal to Kemp.. funny how you listed Rodman's ppg numbers.. but not the things he does at an elite level like rebounding and defense. :oldlol:

Kemp took Rodman's lunch money and is pretty much the only player who can claim he played better than Jordan in a finals series.


Pippen is easily a better second option than Kemp or payton And MJ blows either out the water.. so the Bulls were more stacked.

Which is exactly why the Bulls wanted to trade Pippen for Kemp back in '94, right?


The Bulls were more stacked than Ewing Knicks.. Hakeem Rocket(again why are you listing them when they were old and shitty? Houston Rockets were not a stacked team at that time).

Oh, I get it... When Jordan at age 35 leads the Bulls to the best record in the league, wins MVP/Scoring Title/Finals MVP/etc with a brokeback Pippen missing half the season and playing subpar ball in the playoffs (6 points and 8 points in Game 5 and 6 of the Finals)... it's because the Bulls are stacked. 32 year old Scottie a handful of months later joins a 36 y.o. Hakeem (put up 19/10/3 BPG) and a 35 y.o. Barkley (put up 16/12/5) all of a sudden they're an 'old and shitty' team?

Funny how that works :lol



Bulls lost to Shaq's team before they got rodman and after Horace Grant had left.. because they didnt have the rebounding and interior defense to compete? They NEEDED a Rodman or Grant to fill that role. They were a perfectly constructed stacked team.

The Shaq/Penny Magic were from top to bottom the more talented team. In fact, the Bulls were barely a .500 team when Jordan came back from retirement at the end of the '95 season. Rodman helped deal with their front court, but having Jordan back at full force and the team having a whole season to gel and get their chemistry right was the biggest factor in the sweep in '96.


If were looking at the current Heat do you want to compare current Dwayne Wade to prime Scottie Pippen? Look at the playoff numbers.. its not close.

Wade's playoffs from '11-'13: 21 PPG/7 RPG/5 APG/1.7 SPG/1.3 BPG (47% FG)
Would've been Finals MVP (for a second time) had Lebron James not been Lebron James in the '11 Finals.

Prime Pippen during first 3-peat: 20 PPG/8 RPG/6 APG/2 SPG/ (46% FG)
He went 17 PPG/7 RPG/ 5 APG (41% FG) during the second 3-peat.

So where are you getting the idea it's 'not close' from. That looks to be about as close as you can get from second options who play different positions.

Plus Lebron didn't have to wait 5 seasons for Wade to develop into an all star caliber player. Hell Wade had already led the Heat to a championship long before Bron decided to take his talents down there. Bron never had to deal with Wade's 'migraine' issues that cost him a championship. It was Lebron himself who did that and robbed Wade of his second finals MVP.

[Dragonyeuw]

Well, he will need to be on a team with the best coach in NBA, and possibly sports history. (Jackson)

Then he will need a sharp shooter clutch 3-point shooter that shoots these percentages during the regular season: 52%, 52%, 46% (Kerr)

Then he will need the greatest rebounder in NBA history, someone that has won the rebounding title award a record 7 consecutive times. Someone that averaged 15-16 per game, and was an amazing defensive player as well. In fact, someone who has won the DPOY award back-to-back as well. (Rodman)

Then he will need the 6th man of the year, too. (Kukoc)

Then he will need one of the best two-way players of all time. Someone that can consistently give you 20-6-6 with 2 steals and a block per game. A god among men defending the perimeter, and an underrated scorer. (Pippen)

But yeah, that's a start at all it would take for an NBA (perimeter) player to pass Michael Jordan. Find me a team like that and we can go from there lol

ITP, Jordan didn't win his first three titles without Rodman, Kerr, Kukoc or Pippen just coming into his own as a great player.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

Even then it is slim. Lebron has to win like 6-7 rings, which probably wont happen. And he has to play a good 7-8 more years .
BS.
if LEBron wins 5 rings and FMVPS as well as 7 MVPs and on top of that owns the NBA all time scoring record at the end of his career, which is very likely(the scoring record) hell be easily considered the GOAT.
keep in mind hes way more versatile as a player than Jordan and can do much more on a court which isnt even arguable imo:coleman:
if LeBron wins 3 more Championships and 2 more MVPS i think hell be GOAT:applause: :applause:

[pauk]

Only:

~7 championship runs as the man / best player in his team AND BEST PLAYER IN THE NBA.
~7 fmvps
~6 mvps

[Marlo_Stanfield]

Well, he will need to be on a team with the best coach in NBA, and possibly sports history. (Jackson)

Then he will need a sharp shooter clutch 3-point shooter that shoots these percentages during the regular season: 52%, 52%, 46% (Kerr)

Then he will need the greatest rebounder in NBA history, someone that has won the rebounding title award a record 7 consecutive times. Someone that averaged 15-16 per game, and was an amazing defensive player as well. In fact, someone who has won the DPOY award back-to-back as well. (Rodman)

Then he will need the 6th man of the year, too. (Kukoc)

Then he will need one of the best two-way players of all time. Someone that can consistently give you 20-6-6 with 2 steals and a block per game. A god among men defending the perimeter, and an underrated scorer. (Pippen)

But yeah, that's a start at all it would take for an NBA (perimeter) player to pass Michael Jordan. Find me a team like that and we can go from there lol
http://i52.tinypic.com/2ughwnb.gif
Damn, you just killed it.
LeBron never had anything like that and still will come close in accolades eventually and is already a better player than Jordan ever was imo.:biggums: :biggums:

[Marlo_Stanfield]

Kobe had the same coach AND arguably the most dominant force in NBA History as a teammate... raise your hand if you think Kobe>Jordan. Exactly, didn't think so.



:oldlol:

Steve Kerr averaged 8 PPG during his Bulls stint and Jordan already had 3 rings and 3 finals MVPs before he joined the team.



Again, Jordan already had 3 rings and 3 finals MVPs before a 34 year old Rodman joined the squad.



I'm noticing a pattern here :oldlol:

3 rings, 3 finals MVPs w/o the bench player.



Pippen was a notorious choke artist whose shortcomings and migraines cost the Bulls possibly a 7th ring when he completely disappeared against the Pistons in game 7. Pip also missed roughly half the '98 season after back surgery. Jordan led the team to the best record in the league. Won MVP, the scoring title, All star MVP, finals MVP (with legendary last second heroics, 45 pts, and the iconic game winner... Pip had 8 points that game)... at age 35.



Done.

http://prosportsextra.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/HEAT.jpg

http://www.mediabistro.com/fishbowlny/files/2012/08/lakers-600x600.jpg

Keep reaching. It's funny as hell to watch :lol
brings Kobe into Jordan comparison--->credibility went way down
posts a pic of Wade and Bosh out of their prime and the corpse of Ray Allen to show LeBron has as good a team as Jordan-->credibility completely vanished:roll: :roll: :roll:

[ArbitraryWater]

LeBron winning a higher combination of FMVP's/MVP's, greater statistical dominance, higher/longer peak, prime and Longevity.

[ArbitraryWater]

rings and FINALS MVPS? BILL RUSSELL is ahead ALL-TIME

Aesthetic highlioghts?WTF KIND OF ARBITRARY CRAP IS THAT-WHAT KIND OF CRITERIA IS THAT ANYWAY?
But if going by that route---------Vince Carter,Dwyane Wade,Stephen Curry,Chris Paul,Allen Iverson,mAGIC jOHNSON,lARRY bIRD are all more aesthetically pleasing and have more highlights


Statistical DOMINANCE--Really?
John Stockton,Wilt Chamberlain,Bill Russell,Kareem Abdul Jaabar,Oscar Robertson,LeBron James
are either ALREADY More statistically dominant or will be



so the first 4 he's not FIRST AT ALL

THE MAIN Important one where even today you have people 24/7 on his balls and where you can't say one negative thing about him and he's praised like a gawd 24/7 with the media blowing him all the time and sweeping all his faults and basketball failures away
NOBODY WILL TOUCH

Even today we have 6/6 ALL THAT MATTERS,NEVER LOST like somehow it's better to lose in first round than Finals
Oh Wilt had better stats--but 2 rings
Russell won everything---b b but "weak era" "STACKEDZ"
Kareem was better--b b but Jordan was a guard so he's better,Kareem had Magic



Nobody will touch Jordan today in GOAT bc the contenders have been brought down or dismissed or trashed with MJ getting 24/7 hype and the potential contenders have ALL OF THEIR FAILURES Spotlighted MORE.

No player evr has had the media on them like Jordan and never will.The League pushed MJ and made rules to benefit him.He was,is and will always be the leagues most protected and ref managed star.

When people nowadays believe Pippen was JUST a sidekick and not one of goat defenders and best sf-come on.
The BULLS had the BEST Team in the 90s every year by a good margin.

But nowadays teams like those Bulls would get a STACKEDZ comment.
MJ lost to the same team multiple times in a row-DET
But if players did that nowadays it would be called choking,failing,loser
MJ checked his stats during every pause in the game-nowadays--yeah


We see all the players faults and failures now.But with Jordan,the media and NBA hid all his faults and swept his failures away.
If you think KD and Harden are protected nowadays,MJ was 20 times worse.
If you think LJ and Kobe had failures-MJs were worse.
If you think Howard,Bynum have bad egos-MJs was worse.




Media is perception and Perception is Reality.

This whole post is full of failure. Your post sucks, you suck. Please get a dictionary or something.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BJXmTL2CEAInujA.jpg:large

[Dragonyeuw]

29 year old Bosh is out of his prime? Joke?

Ray is out of his prime, yet it was his 'corpse' hitting a 3 at the end of game 6 in the 2013 finals that's the only thing stopping Lebron from being 1-3 in the finals, three of those finals in which he was/is at his peak (2011-current).


The agendas and spin here is laughable:

-Jordan being criticized for losing in the first round between 84 and 87, as if he had decent teammates during that time or that he wasn't getting bounced by the Bird/Parish/Mchale/Johnson/Ainge Celtics or the Isiah/Dumars/Laimbeer/Rodman/Salley/Mahorn/Vinnie Pistons, all superior teams to those mid-late 80's Bulls. With the exception of the Pistons in 2007, Lebron was getting rightfully bounced out of the playoffs every year by better teams. The Pistons in 2006. The Spurs in 2007. The Celtics in 2008. The Magic in 2009. The fact that he was getting bounced in the second round, or the finals,( in response to the argument that Lebron never lost in the first round) is more indicative of the state of the eastern conference for most of the 2000's. Lebron was beating who exactly in the playoffs in Cleveland? The Wizards? The Bulls pre-Rose? The Hawks? Early career Jordan played in a far superior eastern conference. The Celtics, Pistons, Sixers, Bucks, Cavs were all superior to the teams that Lebron was beating in Cleveland in the playoffs before joining Miami in 2010.

-Can you point at a series where the Bulls lost BECAUSE of Jordan? Can you point to meltdowns as epic as Lebron's like the 2010 series against Boston, or the 2011 Mavs? To my memory, Jordan never had such unexplained lapses in play costing his team a series once he reached his peak.

- Point me to a series where the team 'defended' Jordan by leaving him open to shoot, and being contained for half the series by someone the caliber of Boris Diaw.

The reality is, Jordan and Lebron played in different eras, under different rules, against different competition, making any objective comparisons all but impossible. Can't we just accept them as the best of their respective eras and leave it at that? Neither is perfect, both have flaws in their resume that each side of the argument can spin to suit the agenda.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

29 year old Bosh is out of his prime? Joke?

Ray is out of his prime, are we gonna act like his 3 at the end of game 6 in the 2013 finals isn't the only thing stopping Lebron from being 1-3 in the finals?


The agendas and spin here is laughable:

-Jordan being criticized for losing in the first round between 84 and 87, as if he had decent teammates during that time or that he wasn't getting bounced by the Bird/Parish/Mchale/Johnson/Ainge Celtics or the Isiah/Dumars/Laimbeer/Rodman/Salley/Mahorn/Vinnie Pistons, all superior teams to those mid-late 80's Bulls. With the exception of the Pistons in 2007, Lebron was getting rightfully bounced out of the playoffs every year by better teams. The Pistons in 2006. The Spurs in 2007. The Celtics in 2008. The Magic in 2009. The fact that he was getting bounced in the second round, or the finals,( in response to the argument that Lebron never lost in the first round) is more indicative of the state of the eastern conference for most of the 2000's. Lebron was beating who exactly in the playoffs in Cleveland? The Wizards? The Bulls pre-Rose? The Hawks? Early career Jordan played in a far superior eastern conference. The Celtics, Pistons, Sixers, Bucks, Cavs were all superior to the teams that Lebron was beating in Cleveland in the playoffs before joining Miami in 2010.

-Can you point at a series where the Bulls lost BECAUSE of Jordan? Can you point to meltdowns as epic as Lebron's like the 2010 series against Boston, or the 2011 Mavs? To my memory, Jordan never had such unexplained lapses in play costing his team a series once he reached his peak.

- Point me to a series where the team 'defended' Jordan by leaving him open to shoot, and being contained for half the series by someone the caliber of Boris Diaw.

The reality is, Jordan and Lebron played in different eras, under different rules, against different competition, making any objective comparisons all but impossible. Can't we just accept them as the best of their respective eras and leave it at that? Neither is perfect, both have flaws in their resume that each side of the argument can spin to suit the agenda.
Ray Allen shitting the bed the entire series is what caused it to be so tight in the first place.
hes an incredible clutch shooter and lebron owes him bigtime for that shot but its not like Ray Allen is something special anymore aside from some timely threes:coleman:

[Dragonyeuw]

Ray Allen shitting the bed the entire series is what caused it to be so tight in the first place.
hes an incredible clutch shooter and lebron owes him bigtime for that shot but its not like Ray Allen is something special anymore aside from some timely threes:coleman:

So the corpse of Ray Allen being subpar much of the series, was as big a factor for the hole that the Heat were in, as prime Lebron being subpar for the first 4 games of the series?

Sounds about right.

[Meticode]

What will it take for an NBA (perimeter) player to pass Michael Jordan?
Just lobby for rule changes like Jordan did so he could over-take the Bad Boy Pistons. Now today there is no hand-checking, tons of non-calls on traveling to benefit the offensive player.

Jordan forever changed the NBA by making it benefit offensive play, which in terms helps it's marketing to make it more watchable for your basic fan. In turn it makes the league look softer as well, but generally sheep don't care about this.

Same thing in baseball. Fans dig the long-ball, so build the left or right field porches closer to the plate to inflate those home runs.

[3peated]

if westbrook died and durant solo won the championship with his current roster, 3 years in a row, he would be better than jordan.

[IMObjective]

If LeBron keeps his promise of winning 8 rings in Miami (with at least 6 fmvps) and then returns to Cleveland to deliver the promised ring (fmvp not needed), he'll definitely be the goat.

[Dragonyeuw]

It's going to take a few generations of an entirely new breed of NBA fans, with Jordan nothing but a distant memory, before someone comes along who is universally regarded as better. It's a generational thing, even today there are old fans who will swear blind that Oscar is the GOAT.

In my opinion his career and play lived up to the hype, but I also recognize that Jordan came along at a time when NBA basketball was hitting the public consciousness( a wave Magic and Bird started and Jordan and David Stern took to higher heights in terms of international popularity and stature). MJ had a game that was tailor-made for sports center highlights, and a career of early failures( losing in the 80's) to triumph( 6 titles in the 90's) that legends are made of, in addition to all the MVPs, scoring titles, etc etc. Perception-wise, I don't believe any current player will be viewed as 'greater' than Jordan, even if their level of play and/or accomplishments match or exceed MJ's. There are too many iconic moments etched in our minds over the years for the majority of current fans to consider anyone else as being better. And I say that as a huge Jordan fan.

It will take the children of the fans who say that Lebron and Kobe are as good or better( and their children and so forth), without the shadow of Jordan hanging over them, who won't see MJ with the same level of reverence( he will merely be a 'name' like Wilt, Kareem, Oscar, Magic,etc as a star of 'yesteryear'). And by then, a few other 'GOAT' caliber players will have surfaced. This will be a never-ending argument for as long as Basketball is played.

[OldSchoolBBall]

It will take a player who is actually better than Jordan, which hasn't happened yet. Lebron isn't that close to Jordan. Not on a completely different level, but not that close either.

[Y2ktors]

Not everybody can be like Jordan and play in an era with no good teams to play against.

Oh wait.....

He did play in an era with good teams. He just didn't win until those teams were gone.

Like the Pistons that he finally beat in 1991? The Lakers in 1991? The Blazers in 1992?

[TheMan]

Kobe had the same coach AND arguably the most dominant force in NBA History as a teammate... raise your hand if you think Kobe>Jordan. Exactly, didn't think so.



:oldlol:

Steve Kerr averaged 8 PPG during his Bulls stint and Jordan already had 3 rings and 3 finals MVPs before he joined the team.



Again, Jordan already had 3 rings and 3 finals MVPs before a 34 year old Rodman joined the squad.



I'm noticing a pattern here :oldlol:

3 rings, 3 finals MVPs w/o the bench player.



Pippen was a notorious choke artist whose shortcomings and migraines cost the Bulls possibly a 7th ring when he completely disappeared against the Pistons in game 7. Pip also missed roughly half the '98 season after back surgery. Jordan led the team to the best record in the league. Won MVP, the scoring title, All star MVP, finals MVP (with legendary last second heroics, 45 pts, and the iconic game winner... Pip had 8 points that game)... at age 35.



Done.

http://prosportsextra.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/HEAT.jpg

http://www.mediabistro.com/fishbowlny/files/2012/08/lakers-600x600.jpg

Keep reaching. It's funny as hell to watch :lol
Dat ether doe:bowdown:

[TheMan]

MJ was a 1st round exit master before acquiring aforementioned talents in my previous posts. Knocked out of the 1st round 3 consecutive years, then the 2nd round the next year lol

4 Melo type playoff runs lol

Good thing he acquired more talent or his career might've looked like Melo/AI. Lots of individual talent, great scorer, but not going anywhere.

MJ might have 6 rings, but he also has 3 consecutive 1st round ass whoopins, something LBJ will never have. In fact, yes, you guessed it, LBJ has never been knocked out of the 1st round.
Jordan never lost with HCA, your boy has...

Suck it hater:pimp:

[Dragonyeuw]

MJ was a 1st round exit master before acquiring aforementioned talents in my previous posts. Knocked out of the 1st round 3 consecutive years, then the 2nd round the next year lol

4 Melo type playoff runs lol

Good thing he acquired more talent or his career might've looked like Melo/AI. Lots of individual talent, great scorer, but not going anywhere.

MJ might have 6 rings, but he also has 3 consecutive 1st round ass whoopins, something LBJ will never have. In fact, yes, you guessed it, LBJ has never been knocked out of the 1st round.

Jordan never stunk it up in the finals as much as Lebron though. 2007 is forgivable seeing as he was 22 and still raw, but 2011? The first 4 games in 2013 which harkened back to 2011, with Lebron unable to get past the likes of Boris Diaw and being dared to shoot? When was Jordan ever shut down by someone so far beneath his abilities, or dared to shoot which is the ultimate disrespect for someone of Lebron's stature? Can you answer that, or you gonna keep harping on Jordan losing in early rounds to what are considered all time great teams, with mostly marginal talent compared to teams like the Celtics and the Pistons who featured multiple HOFers?

[Sarcastic]

Jordan never lost with HCA, your boy has...

Suck it hater:pimp:


Jordan never even missed the playoffs. Lebron started his career missing it the first 2 years.


Losing in the first round >>> missing playoffs entirely.

[ImKobe]

They have to be as good as Kobe to pass MJ & Kobe's still on his quest to the GOAT with only 2-3 more title runs left.

[Knoe Itawl]

I always disliked Kobe so it was easier to handle going against his hype and idiot fans with the unwarranted Jordan comparisons but I actually like Lebron. However, he has some obnoxious fans who are already trying the Jordan comparison stuff, and actually trying to degrade Jordan's career to do so (same as the Kobetards used to do).

Most Jordan fans have always said that they wouldn't mind someone coming along and being better than Mike. That not only would it be good for the league, but it would be awesome to see because we miss seeing someone on that level in the league.

However, Lebron is just not as good as peek Michael Jordan. If he was, I would have no problem admitting it because I like Bron, and think it would be cool if it was. So all this nonsense that his more obnoxious fans talk about people not wanting to let go of Jordan is garbage. It's more like people aren't going to admit someone is at or above his level when they aren't. Lebron doesn't really have a chance to catch Mike, IMO, unless he tears up the playoffs throughout the rest of his career. It's not necessarily about him winning the same number of rings, but it IS about him just going out and dominating in the playoffs. And things like 2011 just can't happen again.

It's this simple: When someone else comes along that is on or above Jordan's level, we'll readily admit it. It just hasn't happened yet.

[TheMan]

I always disliked Kobe so it was easier to handle going against his hype and idiot fans with the unwarranted Jordan comparisons but I actually like Lebron. However, he has some obnoxious fans who are already trying the Jordan comparison stuff, and actually trying to degrade Jordan's career to do so (same as the Kobetards used to do).

Most Jordan fans have always said that they wouldn't mind someone coming along and being better than Mike. That not only would it be good for the league, but it would be awesome to see because we miss seeing someone on that level in the league.

However, Lebron is just not as good as peek Michael Jordan. If he was, I would have no problem admitting it because I like Bron, and think it would be cool if it was. So all this nonsense that his more obnoxious fans talk about people not wanting to let go of Jordan is garbage. It's more like people aren't going to admit someone is at or above his level when they aren't. Lebron doesn't really have a chance to catch Mike, IMO, unless he tears up the playoffs throughout the rest of his career. It's not necessarily about him winning the same number of rings, but it IS about him just going out and dominating in the playoffs. And things like 2011 just can't happen again.

It's this simple: When someone else comes along that is on or above Jordan's level, we'll readily admit it. It just hasn't happened yet.
:applause: Great post:bowdown:

[houston]

Kobe already accomplish everything that Jordan has but Lebron go past them both.

[TheMan]

Kobe already accomplish everything that Jordan has but Lebron go past them both.
:facepalm

[bizil]

Bron is the guy who has the best shot by far! As great as Kobe is, he's too similar to MJ in terms of size and ability. And also, Kobe's resume isnt quite on MJ's level, even though its DAMN CLOSE outside of MVP's. Those two things work against him. He needed to pad the resume a bit more. Bron is on pace to match MJ MVP wise, All Star game wise, All-NBA wise, All Defensive wise, points in a career, boards in a career, and dimes in a career. Also take into account that Bron TOTALLY redefined the SF spot. At 6'8 and 260 pounds he has the body of Karl Malone COMBINED with Magic (similar in height, versatility, passing ability, triple double threat), Big O (pass first player that gets u 27-30 a night and triple double threat), Pippen (point forward and versatile defender capable of defending four positions well), and Dr.J (freak athletic scoring machine at SF who's the face of the L).

With all of those elements, Bron is really the guy who can supplant MJ. Bron is the most popular athlete in the world arguably just like MJ on top of it. MJ could do every thing a 6'6 perimeter player could possibly do on both sides of the ball. And play PG, SG, and SF. Bron does that AND is big enough to play the power positions as well. So if Bron can't do it, u have to then see how Durant's career turns out. Durant's can also play the PF becasue of his size, his scoring ability is on par with MJ too. The only thing is Durant's all around game isn't epic like Bron or MJ as of now.

[houston]

:facepalm


Kobe made more All-NBA teams than him. He got more nba finals,all-defense teams, and more all-star appearances than him. So at this point of his career it a toss up with both but accomplishment wise Jordan win. But Lebron is on the verge on a better than both.

[bizil]

They have to be as good as Kobe to pass MJ & Kobe's still on his quest to the GOAT with only 2-3 more title runs left.

I agree that u have to go through Kobe to be over MJ. GOAT wise, I have Kobe rated over Bird at this point. I know for some that's crazy, but I got Kobe number 6 or 7 all time after MJ, Wilt, Kareem, Magic, and Russell. Bron has already passed Bird arguably for GOAT SF. But he hasn't passed Kobe. And sure if Kobe gets seven rings and could pass Kareem for the all time scoring lead, he could have a case over MJ maybe as GOAT. Or if anything get into the top 3-4 GOAT.

[TheMan]

Kobe made more All-NBA teams than him. He got more nba finals,all-defense teams, and more all-star appearances than him. So at this point of his career it a toss up with both but accomplishment wise Jordan win. But Lebron is on the verge on a better than both.
:facepalm

[Knoe Itawl]

I agree that u have to go through Kobe to be over MJ. GOAT wise, I have Kobe rated over Bird at this point. I know for some that's crazy, but I got Kobe number 6 or 7 all time after MJ, Wilt, Kareem, Magic, and Russell. Bron has already passed Bird arguably for GOAT SF. But he hasn't passed Kobe. And sure if Kobe gets seven rings and could pass Kareem for the all time scoring lead, he could have a case over MJ maybe as GOAT. Or if anything get into the top 3-4 GOAT.

:facepalm

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Its almost impossible TBH unless we see a perimeter player with the athleticism of Adrian Peterson, skills of Larry Bird and perfect wing body............

I hated MJ in the 90s but lookin back he really was the perfect player no real weakness. With every other great u can point something out. ATG midrange, very good overall shooting, GOAT scorer, one of the GOAT perimeter defenders for man and team D, solid playmaker/passer, extremely low turnovers that spread to the rest of the bulls team, best clutch player ever, great rebounder for size, freak strength and athleticism/speed, GOAT slasher.............theres nothing u can really say

[fpliii]

Bron is the guy who has the best shot by far! As great as Kobe is, he's too similar to MJ in terms of size and ability. And also, Kobe's resume isnt quite on MJ's level, even though its DAMN CLOSE outside of MVP's. Those two things work against him. He needed to pad the resume a bit more. Bron is on pace to match MJ MVP wise, All Star game wise, All-NBA wise, All Defensive wise, points in a career, boards in a career, and dimes in a career. Also take into account that Bron TOTALLY redefined the SF spot. At 6'8 and 260 pounds he has the body of Karl Malone COMBINED with Magic (similar in height, versatility, passing ability, triple double threat), Big O (pass first player that gets u 27-30 a night and triple double threat), Pippen (point forward and versatile defender capable of defending four positions well), and Dr.J (freak athletic scoring machine at SF who's the face of the L).

With all of those elements, Bron is really the guy who can supplant MJ. Bron is the most popular athlete in the world arguably just like MJ on top of it. MJ could do every thing a 6'6 perimeter player could possibly do on both sides of the ball. And play PG, SG, and SF. Bron does that AND is big enough to play the power positions as well. So if Bron can't do it, u have to then see how Durant's career turns out. Durant's can also play the PF becasue of his size, his scoring ability is on par with MJ too. The only thing is Durant's all around game isn't epic like Bron or MJ as of now.
I do agree with the bolded. The perimeter player who surpasses MJ will have to play a different brand of basketball. MJ was one of the GOAT wing defenders, but maybe this new guy will be the Bill Russell of perimeter defense. Maybe he'll have exceptional range (KD- or Curry-esque) and be a dominant rebounder too.

I don't think you can have a guy who beats MJ at the exact same thing. He will have to be close to, at, or above Jordan's level as an athlete though, so that's one similarity.

[AirFederer]

There's one Jesus and one GOAT/Mike.

Now deal with it🙊🙉🙈.

:pimp:

[TheCorporation]

http://i52.tinypic.com/2ughwnb.gif
Damn, you just killed it.
LeBron never had anything like that and still will come close in accolades eventually and is already a better player than Jordan ever was imo.:biggums: :biggums:

I didn't wanna do'em like that, but someone had to :lol


brings Kobe into Jordan comparison--->credibility went way down
posts a pic of Wade and Bosh out of their prime and the corpse of Ray Allen to show LeBron has as good a team as Jordan-->credibility completely vanished:roll: :roll: :roll:

My thoughts exactly.

:lol :lol