How to know if player X is better than Kobe

[kentatm]

The test for knowing if a person is a better basketball player than Kobe works like this

Would this player have won as many or more titles with prime Shaq as Kobe did.

If the answer is yes, then ultimately that guy is a better player to have.

So would Durant win more with prime Shaq than Kobe? I say yes.

so :durantunimpressed: > :kobe:

Of course I'd also say that would happen with LeBron, Wade, Duncan, Dirk, KG, CWebb, Barkley, Pippen, CP3, Nash, TMac, Malone, Stockton.... and well, I think the non stans will understand the process and be able to add more guys to this list.

[AnaheimLakers24]

trick question. they aren't

[TheMarkMadsen]

I'd like to go ahead and add Penny Hardaway, Nick Anderson, Horace Grant, Eddie Jones and Nick Van Exel to this list, Shaq would run off multiple championships with all these guys

[moe94]

I'd like to go ahead and add Penny Hardaway, Nick Anderson, Horace Grant, Eddie Jones and Nick Van Exel to this list, Shaq would run off multiple championships with all these guys

Durant is, by far, better than all of them. :coleman:

[TheMarkMadsen]

Durant is, by far, better than all of them. :coleman:


ok?

[LeBron 06]

I'd like to go ahead and add Penny Hardaway, Nick Anderson, Horace Grant, Eddie Jones and Nick Van Exel to this list, Shaq would run off multiple championships with all these guys


With Phil Jackson as coach...yes

[kentatm]

Durant is, by far, better than all of them. :coleman:

ahh, but this is not a "Is player X better than Durant" test. :lol

[J Shuttlesworth]

You forgot Allen Iverson :applause:

Agreed though. I think Curry > Kobe too

Also, see my usertext

[MMM]

Lot of players could fill Kobe's place on those 3 peat teams but how many could take his place on the back-to-back Lakers???

[longtime lurker]

The test for knowing if a person is a better basketball player than Kobe works like this

Would this player have won as many or more titles with prime Shaq as Kobe did.

If the answer is yes, then ultimately that guy is a better player to have.

So would Durant win more with prime Shaq than Kobe? I say yes.

so :durantunimpressed: > :kobe:

Of course I'd also say that would happen with LeBron, Wade, Duncan, Dirk, KG, CWebb, Barkley, Pippen, CP3, Nash, TMac, Malone, Stockton.... and well, I think the non stans will understand the process and be able to add more guys to this list.

Oh you forgot prime Penny too.

Weak attempt at trolling....

[TheMarkMadsen]

Lot of players could fill Kobe's place on those 3 peat teams but how many could take his place on the back-to-back Lakers???


name lots of players who are going to put up 34/9/4 on 58% TS in the WCSF then will turn around and average 33/7/7 on 57% TS in the WCF

name lots of players who are going to lead the entire league in 4th quarter scoring in the playoffs in b2b championship runs (01,02)

..

[kentatm]

Lot of players could fill Kobe's place on those 3 peat teams but how many could take his place on the back-to-back Lakers???

everyone listed brah

[ImKobe]

You forgot Allen Iverson :applause:

Agreed though. I think Curry > Kobe too

Also, see my usertext

AI, the guy who in his prime shot under 40% from the field TWICE for an entire season :oldlol:

Curry, the guy with the glass ankles? :oldlol: The guy, who's having a career year while on a stacked roster, but can barely stay in the Playoff picture? :oldlol:

Kobe led a team without Shaq to b2b titles, beating guys like Duncan, KD, Melo, Pierce, KG, Allen in the Playoffs.

[kentatm]

Oh you forgot prime Penny too.

Weak attempt at trolling....


No, I just didnt feel like naming everybody.

You can add Jason Kidd, Gary Payton, and Isiah Thomas to that list too

[kentatm]

AI, the guy who in his prime shot under 40% from the field TWICE for an entire season :oldlol:

Curry, the guy with the glass ankles? :oldlol: The guy, who's having a career year while on a stacked roster, but can barely stay in the Playoff picture? :oldlol:

Kobe led a team without Shaq to b2b titles, beating guys like Duncan, KD, Melo, Pierce, KG, Allen in the Playoffs.

Kobe had a kick ass big man rotation of Pau, Bynum, and Odom, all in their prime and all still giving a shit/healthy.

Everyone listed would have won with those guys too.


that reminds me

add Paul Pierce to the list.

[MMM]

name lots of players who are going to put up 34/9/4 on 58% TS in the WCSF then will turn around and average 33/7/7 on 57% TS in the WCF

name lots of players who are going to lead the entire league in 4th quarter scoring in the playoffs in b2b championship runs (01,02)

..

the players I have in mind wouldn't necessarily need to match Kobe's numbers to win in that situation. I would think the Majority of the top 50-70 players in the league could win at least one title with the 3 peat Lakers. In their peak I would take a lot of players over 2000 Kobe at minimum.

[wakencdukest]

The test for knowing if a person is a better basketball player than Kobe works like this

Would this player have won as many or more titles with prime Shaq as Kobe did.

If the answer is yes, then ultimately that guy is a better player to have.

So would Durant win more with prime Shaq than Kobe? I say yes.

so :durantunimpressed: > :kobe:

Of course I'd also say that would happen with LeBron, Wade, Duncan, Dirk, KG, CWebb, Barkley, Pippen, CP3, Nash, TMac, Malone, Stockton.... and well, I think the non stans will understand the process and be able to add more guys to this list.






So, you're basically saying that with one of these other players instead of Kobe, the Lakers would have been that much more dominant than the rest of the league, probably to the tune of 6-8 straight championships. I'd give up Kobe for that scenario any day.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

great Post by a great OP:applause: :applause:

[Jameerthefear]

OP has shed the light to me :applause:

[Doranku]

I wonder.. what if the Dallas Mavericks had acquired some of these players who are supposedly better than a 5 time champion/2 time finals MVP?

Would they have more than one ring in their miserable 34 year existence?

[TheMarkMadsen]

the players I have in mind wouldn't necessarily need to match Kobe's numbers to win in that situation. I would think the Majority of the top 50-70 players in the league could win at least one title with the 3 peat Lakers. In their peak I would take a lot of players over 2000 Kobe at minimum.

Wow really..

so then why didn't the Lakers win any titles when Shaq had 2 all star guards on the team at the same time in Nick Van Exel & Eddie Jones..2 of the top 24 best players that year?


Why didn't Shaq win any titles with a 1st team all NBA player Penny Hardaway & an amazing supporting cast?

you say "3peat Lakers" as if they were some 3 headed monster.. when they weren't, they revolved around Kobe & Shaq

Bill Walton in 2001 is on record saying that Kobe & Shaq are the two most dominant players in the league.

[kentatm]

So, you're basically saying that with one of these other players instead of Kobe, the Lakers would have been that much more dominant than the rest of the league, probably to the tune of 6-8 straight championships. I'd give up Kobe for that scenario any day.


yes, b/c none of those players would have the ego issues Kobe had that eventually broke the team apart.

being the best basketball player involves more than skills.

you need to know whats best for the team and not yourself.

[kentatm]

Bill Walton in 2001 is on record saying that Kobe & Shaq are the two most dominant players in the league.

Bill Walton also once said "Shawn Bradley is the most dominant thing to emerge from Western Civilization ever." :lol

[TheMarkMadsen]

Shaq after the game 1 of the WCF 2001:


I told Kobe that he was my idol," O'Neal said. "I'm serious. He's playing phenomenal. I think he's the best player in the league, by far


"That's where I've been trying to get him all year," O'Neal said. "He's been getting his points, getting everybody involved, drawing and kicking, doing the right things. Somebody once said the mark of a great player is how you make the other players around you play.I now can truly say that Kobe Bryant is the best player in this league."

[Kblaze8855]

You know that Shaq was just saying in a round about way that he made Kobe play so well and therefore is one of those who make those around him play better...right?

Shaq still thought he was the best player in the league in 2004. I remember a topic on him saying so at the time.

[Kblaze8855]

That said...this isnt the best topic ive ever seen. Im not gonna do anything about it. I just wanted to voice my objection then slide back into the shadows.

[TheMarkMadsen]

You know that Shaq was just saying in a round about way that he made Kobe play so well and therefore is one of those who make those around him play better...right?

Shaq still thought he was the best player in the league in 2004. I remember a topic on him saying so at the time.


regardless of what Shaq really thought (imo no great player thinks anybody is better than them) this came after Kobe dropped 45 & 10 on the Spurs to steal home court advantage, while Shaq had 28 & 11, Kobe had just put up 93 points in his last 2 playoff games.. Kobe was having a dominant playoffs & was a top player in the league

[Kblaze8855]

Im aware of that. I was on ISH when he said it. Much discussion was done. He also said AI is top 5 all time I believe. Shaq is into hyperbole. Heavily.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Im aware of that. I was on ISH when he said it. Much discussion was done. He also said AI is top 5 all time I believe. Shaq is into hyperbole. Heavily.


doesn't take away what he said about Kobe :confusedshrug:

Shaq doesn't speak in hyperbole as much as he is a prisoner of the moment, at that moment Kobe was a top player in the league.. When Shaq called AI a top 5 player ever, AI was a top player in the league, when speaking in historical context being a prisoner of the moment can be a hindrance.

i'm not relying on Shaqs statement to prove my point, it's just a complimentary side note to what Kobe was doing at the time..playing at a level that was tops in the league

[longtime lurker]

yes, b/c none of those players would have the ego issues Kobe had that eventually broke the team apart.

being the best basketball player involves more than skills.

you need to know whats best for the team and not yourself.

So you really think ego is what stopped the Lakers from winning more championships? If Kobe's ego was so horrible he wouldn't have 5 championships and 7 finals appearances. I know you're just trolling but even for you this is weak.

[Frozen1]

I would like the OP to answer me these questions:

- How many rings did shaq have before kobe became an elite player in the nba?

- How many rings did shaq win without an elite SG?

[PsychoBe]

how many rings does shaq have without kobe?

how many rings does kobe have without shaq?

how many playoff wins did gasol have without kobe?

how many playoff wins did gasol have with kobe?

this could be labeled as an agenda topic but we'll see where this goes.

[Mr. Jabbar]

interesting is how many players would have won with wade bosh and allen..also how many with gasol and odom :oldlol:

i rest my case

[ImKobe]

I would like the OP to answer me these questions:

- How many rings did shaq have before kobe became an elite player in the nba?

- How many rings did shaq win without an elite SG?

I'll answer them for him


- 0

- 0

People be like "put player x instead of Kobe and they still win 3", how come Shaq left Orlando then? He had an elite wing next to him and failed to win time and time again, he came to LA and before Kobe became Kobe he couldn't sniff the Finals. 2000 WCF Lakers were down double digits in the 4th in Game 7, ready to be eliminated by Portland. Kobe leads the Lakers in points, rebounds, assists and blocks to bring the team back from a huge deficit, Shaq had a pedestrian 18 points 9 rebounds while Kobe was 3 assists away from a triple double. But anyone at 21 could do what Kobe did back then.

And I bet anyone could put up 32 7 6 on 49% shooting against the Western Conference at 22 years old and 27 7 6 on 51/55/81 shooting in the Finals at 23 years old.

[fpliii]

More Kobe hate. :facepalm

[PsychoBe]

interesting is how many players would have won with wade bosh and allen..also how many with gasol and odom :oldlol:

i rest my case

this.

shameless hate for an all-time great.

[NumberSix]

Durant is, by far, better than all of them. :coleman:
Penny was better than Durant until he got injured.

[moe94]

Penny was better than Durant until he got injured.

:coleman:

You couldn't even begin to form an argument supporting this.

[FaceBack]

It's hard to say. You think KD would have the balls to tell Shaq to get his fat ass in shape? Shaq's weight and consequential foot injuries kept the Lakers from winning more titles.

[gts]

More Kobe hate. :facepalm
He's got a lot of people shook up that's for sure.. :lol

[gts]

It's hard to say. You think KD would have the balls to tell Shaq to get his fat ass in shape? Shaq's weight and consequential foot injuries kept the Lakers from winning more titles. you mean Kobe? he did in private and also in a very public way

[FaceBack]

you mean Kobe? he did in private and also in a very public way

no I meant would Kevin Durant hold Shaq accountable? He doesn't even hold Westbrook accountable for his selfish antics.

[gts]

no I meant would Kevin Durant hold Shaq accountable? He doesn't even hold Westbrook accountable for his selfish antics.aha ok.. my mistake mis read you

Won't comment on Durant.. don't follow OKC's inner workings enough

[JohnFreeman]

Durant is a top 250 player. He doesn't need to be in this thread.

[oh the horror]

That's a very simplistic method considering you never know how players are going to mesh. Simply putting player X with player Y doesn't mean they'll simply win the same way that Kobe and Shaq did.



Maybe they'd win more? Maybe less.


That doesn't equate to "better" or "worse" or that particular player.

[Andrei89]

You forgot Allen Iverson :applause:

Agreed though. I think Curry > Kobe too

Also, see my usertext


Alright.Are you on drugs?

To say that Curry is even remotely close to Kobe is a ****ing disgrace.

And I dont even like Kirby.

[MMM]

I would like the OP to answer me these questions:

- How many rings did shaq have before kobe became an elite player in the nba?

- How many rings did shaq win without an elite SG?

Kobe became an elite player in the 2000 - 2001 season and I don't think Wade was an elite SG in 06 as of yet but he was very close.

[tpols]

Kobe became an elite player in the 2000 - 2001 season and I don't think Wade was an elite SG in 06 as of yet but he was very close.

Wade in 2006 carried shaq.. and without Kobe's heroics out West in 2000 Shaq gets bounced by Portland.


OP salty doe

[moe94]

Kobe became an elite player in the 2000 - 2001 season and I don't think Wade was an elite SG in 06 as of yet but he was very close.

27/6/7/2stls on basically 50% shooting for a SG is very elite. He'd be the best SG today and in his own tier at that.

[MichaelCorleone]

Very clever way of putting things into perspective.

That is why I do not have Kobe in my top 15.

[J Shuttlesworth]

AI, the guy who in his prime shot under 40% from the field TWICE for an entire season :oldlol:

Curry, the guy with the glass ankles? :oldlol: The guy, who's having a career year while on a stacked roster, but can barely stay in the Playoff picture? :oldlol:

Kobe led a team without Shaq to b2b titles, beating guys like Duncan, KD, Melo, Pierce, KG, Allen in the Playoffs.
God damn, you Laker fans get trolled way too easily :facepalm

[MMM]

Wow really..

so then why didn't the Lakers win any titles when Shaq had 2 all star guards on the team at the same time in Nick Van Exel & Eddie Jones..2 of the top 24 best players that year?

Why didn't Shaq win any titles with a 1st team all NBA player Penny Hardaway & an amazing supporting cast?


Making the all star team doesn't necessarily put you among the top 24 players in the league. Shaq put together an amazing dominant stretch but if he had to consistently go through the caliber of teams of the mid 90s Rockets or late 90's Jazz I'm not sure if he would be able to duplicate his success.




you say "3peat Lakers" as if they were some 3 headed monster.. when they weren't, they revolved around Kobe & Shaq

Bill Walton in 2001 is on record saying that Kobe & Shaq are the two most dominant players in the league.

I think you missed the part where i mentioned that not many could win in Kobe's place on the 09-10 teams. Winning in a clear cut best player mode is more valuable than winning as a great player in a 1, 2 or 1b situation. Looking at the skill sets of many other perennial all stars to great players i think they could have fit in a 2 or 1b situation with how dominant Shaq was at the time. However, the same players probably wouldn't be suited to carrying Pau and Odom to 3 straight finals.

[MMM]

27/6/7/2stls on basically 50% shooting for a SG is very elite. He'd be the best SG today and in his own tier at that.

From an historical aspect i disagree with that definition of elite because good players who are a few tiers below elite have duplicated similar seasons. AI, Tmac, Pierce and Carter from the 2000's alone have had equivalent seasons and would rate as the best SG's currently but i wouldn't mentioned them as elite historically.

[MMM]

Wade in 2006 carried shaq.. and without Kobe's heroics out West in 2000 Shaq gets bounced by Portland.


OP salty doe

Without Gasol heroics in game 7 Kobe only has 4 rings but that doesn't mean that Gasol isn't replaceable on those teams. I hope i don't have to mentioned that early 2000 kobe could win without Shaq as well doe.

[moe94]

From an historical aspect i disagree with that definition of elite because good players who are a few tiers below elite have duplicated similar seasons. AI, Tmac, Pierce and Carter from the 2000's alone have had equivalent seasons and would rate as the best SG's currently but i wouldn't mentioned them as elite historically.

If you take that season and include his playoff run, I cannot see how he's anything but elite.

Since Jordan....

Kobe

That's it for SGs that touch that season, all things considered.

How is being a top 2 SG since Jordan not considered elite? He has the numbers and he won it all. That's as elite as it gets.

[tpols]

Without Gasol heroics in game 7 Kobe only has 4 rings but that doesn't mean that Gasol isn't replaceable on those teams. I hope i don't have to mentioned that early 2000 kobe could win without Shaq as well doe.

:biggums:

I hope you mean metta... Pau shot 6 for 16 on atrocious TS.. Kobe also outscored Pau in the fourth where as 2000 Kobe led the comeback and was a clutch/4th quarter king for LA's first threepeat. There's really no comparison as far as heroics go.. Gasol is a steady producer, but not a guy that has ever taken over games.

[MMM]

If you take that season and include his playoff run, I cannot see how he's anything but elite.

Since Jordan....

Kobe

That's it for SGs that touch that season, all things considered.

How is being a top 2 SG since Jordan not considered elite? He has the numbers and he won it all. That's as elite as it gets.

He had an amazing run in 01 but i think you got to put it together for a full season before you join elite status. Kobe officially was an elite play in my mind in 01-02 and remained until 2010 or 11.

[Cold soul]

Shaq after the game 1 of the WCF 2001:


:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Legends of the game respect and place Kobe accordingly when comes to NBA lore. Keyboard warriors online don't though. Go figure... Living in their mom's parents basement. It's sad they are witnessing greatness upon them for last 18 years but are ignoring it and letting it pass them by. :facepalm

[kentatm]

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Legends of the game respect and place Kobe accordingly when comes to NBA lore. Keyboard warriors online don't though. Go figure... Living in their mom's parents basement. It's sad they are witnessing greatness upon them for last 18 years but are ignoring it and letting it pass them by. :facepalm


Yo bro, I gots my own house here in the DF-Dub

Kobe's wouldn't be recognized as having greatness had he been in a small market like Milwaukee with no elite bigs his entire career.

[HOoopCityJones]

Yo bro, I gots my own house here in the DF-Dub

Kobe's wouldn't be recognized as having greatness had he been in a small market like Milwaukee with no elite bigs his entire career.

Neither would Lebron in that case.

Without a Top two guard or a Top five PF.

[TheMarkMadsen]

How many rings does Shaq have without and elite shooting guard?

Shaq never won anything without a top 10 & top 25 player of all time

:confusedshrug:

[Cold soul]

Yo bro, I gots my own house here in the DF-Dub

Kobe's wouldn't be recognized as having greatness had he been in a small market like Milwaukee with no elite bigs his entire career.

Not many other greats would either. Lebron is a prime example.

[kentatm]

Not many other greats would either. Lebron is a prime example.


Negatory

LeBron became known as a great in Cleavland with the corpse of Ilgauskas, Drew Gooden, and Sideshow Bob as his bigs.

[HOoopCityJones]

Negatory

LeBron became known as a great in Cleavland with the corpse of Ilgauskas, Drew Gooden, and Sideshow Bob as his bigs.

In one of the weakest Eastern conferences in all time.

Put that shit into perspective, would he have been doing that in the wild wild West vs Shaq&Kobe, Duncan, Drik and Nash in their primes?

[Cold soul]

In one of the weakest Eastern conferences in all time.

Put that shit into perspective, would he have been doing that in the wild wild West vs Shaq&Kobe, Duncan, Drik and Nash in their primes?

The answer to that question is flat out no.

[riseagainst]

OP becoming one of my favorite posters.

:lol