When did "modern basketball" start?

[rlsmooth775]

Was it when the leagues merged? Or when Magic and Bird came into the league or when David stern and MJ Barkley came. I ask this cause I know some fans discredit a certain era saying it doesn't count

[Genaro]

I think most people have the start of the 80's as the line. So when Bird and Magic came to the league.

[fpliii]

You'll hear:

54 (shot clock)
76 (merger)
79 (Magic/Bird)
84 (Jordan)
92 (Dream Team)
98 (post-Jordan)
01 (zone defense)

Some make more sense than others, obviously.

At the moment I'm thinking it was some time in the early/mid 60s (when the league was thoroughly integrated, and the league coping with the shock factor from Russell coming into the league and changing how defense was played). No clue though TBH, I guess it would be subjective.

[DMV2]

I think 83-84 season when Bird vs Magic first Finals.

Same season when Stern became the Commish.


You'll hear:
84 (Jordan).
Oh yeah, Jordan came into the league just weeks after Bird/Celtics vs Magic/Lakers Finals.

I say it's 1984-present for me.

[DaSeba5]

I think when Stern became the commissioner. The NBA started to really shine with major stars like Bird and Magic, and then Jordan helped transcend the league to what it is today. So I think it started in the 80s.

We got 7 news teams (including the Heat) during his tenure

[DMV2]

Hey fpliii, good post by the way.

I think these are just "periods" within the "Modern Era" because era should be longer than 5-8 years when talking about the league's 68-year history.
79 (Magic/Bird)
84 (Jordan)
92 (Dream Team)
98 (post-Jordan)
01 (zone defense)

Anyway, what are we in now? The Big 3 Era (2008-present)?

[fpliii]

Hey fpliii, good post by the way.

I think these are just "periods" within the "Modern Era" because era should be longer than 5-8 years when talking about the league's 68-year history.
79 (Magic/Bird)
84 (Jordan)
92 (Dream Team)
98 (post-Jordan)
01 (zone defense)

Anyway, what are we in now? The Big 3 Era (2008-present)?
I think so. That's also a good start point because that's when I feel these Thibs-esque defenses really started appearing around the league.

Also, starting in 08, >20% of shots have been 3's each year. I like that as a beginning for the current mini-era.

[Foster5k]

You'll hear:

54 (shot clock)
76 (merger)
79 (Magic/Bird)
84 (Jordan)
92 (Dream Team)
98 (post-Jordan)
01 (zone defense)

Some make more sense than others, obviously.

At the moment I'm thinking it was some time in the early/mid 60s (when the league was thoroughly integrated, and the league coping with the shock factor from Russell coming into the league and changing how defense was played). No clue though TBH, I guess it would be subjective.
Agreed.

This stuff is all relative to each person. There isn't one de-facto moment when the league transitioned from one age to the current modern age. It was a gradual process.

[LeGOAT]

Start of the 03-04' season

[LAZERUSS]

I think most people have the start of the 80's as the line. So when Bird and Magic came to the league.

Hmmm...

Can you look up the MVPs in the first few years of the 80's for me?

Or maybe the scoring champions in the first few years of that decade?

Or perhaps the rebounding champs?

FG% leaders?

Yep...it was all players who started playing in the NBA in 1980. What a huge jump. A bunch of worthless nerds playing in the 60's and 70's...but thank gawd for the 80's...when the real talent came into the league.

And it was truly laughable watching players like KAJ and Moses, just getting destroyed in the 80's. Adrian Dantley suddenly couldn't score or shoot in the 80's. Dr. J couldn't dunk in the 80's. And Gilmore went from a .550 shooter to a .350 shooter overnight.

Obviously the 80's was the REAL start to the "modern era."

[Psileas]

You'll hear:

54 (shot clock)
76 (merger)
79 (Magic/Bird)
84 (Jordan)
92 (Dream Team)
98 (post-Jordan)
01 (zone defense)

Some make more sense than others, obviously.

At the moment I'm thinking it was some time in the early/mid 60s (when the league was thoroughly integrated, and the league coping with the shock factor from Russell coming into the league and changing how defense was played). No clue though TBH, I guess it would be subjective.

You forgot one of the most popular: 1974, after Wilt retired.
Fwiw, I don't use this term. The only periods I fully recognise, in the change of which, the game changed totally, are pre- and after shot clock.

[MichaelCorleone]

When Bird and Magic were drafted.

Anything before that is and will remain irrelevant to us modern NBA fans.

[LAZERUSS]

You forgot one of the most popular: 1974, after Wilt retired.
Fwiw, I don't use this term. The only periods I fully recognise, in the change of which, the game changed totally, are pre- and after shot clock.

ESPN uses this as the real starting point in any of their all-time record discussions. Their database only goes back to 1974.

[MichaelCorleone]

Thread should be renamed 'When did "basketball" start?'.

Answer will also be when Bird and Magic were drafted.

[Psileas]

ESPN uses this as the real starting point in any of their all-time record discussions. Their database only goes back to 1974.

Btw, we do know that Wilt's imminent retirement was supposedly the reason the NBA didn't start officially recording blocked shots earlier. At least commissioner Walter Kennedy himself had admitted so, that the NBA waited till Wilt retired, out of respect, so that they wouldn't start recording his blocked shots in his "fading" seasons.

[LAZERUSS]

Btw, we do know that Wilt's imminent retirement was the reason the NBA didn't start officially recording blocked shots earlier. At least commissioner Walter Kennedy himself had admitted so, that the NBA waited till Wilt retired, out of respect, so that they wouldn't start recording his blocked shots in his "fading" seasons.

I have read posters who claimed that, but I honestly never knew about that fact. Interesting, too, because, as your research (and ThaRegul8r's) has shown, Chamberlain averaged 5.4 bpg in his very least season. And I believe you had numbers from the majority of his games in his 71-72 season, which were at around 6-7 per game (and of course, he averaged over 7 bpg in the playoffs.)

[Psileas]

I have read posters who claimed that, but I honestly never knew about that fact. Interesting, too, because, as your research (and ThaRegul8r's) has shown, Chamberlain averaged 5.4 bpg in his very least season. And I believe you had numbers from the majority of his games in his 71-72 season, which were at around 6-7 per game (and of course, he averaged over 7 bpg in the playoffs.)

Well, I had compiled his '72 totals for 27 regular season games, the majority of which (around 22) came in his first 50 games. In these 27 games, he had blocked 222 shots. Also, he had blocked 84 shots in 12 playoff games. So, yes, between 6 and 7 seems like a good guesstimation of both his 1972 r.s and p.o.

[jlip]

Btw, we do know that Wilt's imminent retirement was supposedly the reason the NBA didn't start officially recording blocked shots earlier. At least commissioner Walter Kennedy himself had admitted so, that the NBA waited till Wilt retired, out of respect, so that they wouldn't start recording his blocked shots in his "fading" seasons.

Interesting. I didn't know that. Do you have a link to this?

[Psileas]

Wrong post.

[jlip]

Wrong post.

I meant do you have a link to an article or interview with Walter Kennedy saying that.

[Psileas]

Interesting. I didn't know that. Do you have a link to this?

Look at the bottom of the page:
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=260635&page=2

(It was a wrong post on my part)

[LAZERUSS]

Look at the bottom of the page:
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=260635&page=2

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7198734&postcount=30

[fpliii]

You forgot one of the most popular: 1974, after Wilt retired.
Fwiw, I don't use this term. The only periods I fully recognise, in the change of which, the game changed totally, are pre- and after shot clock.
True.

[jlip]

Look at the bottom of the page:
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=260635&page=2

(It was a wrong post on my part)
:applause:

[ILLsmak]

Was it when the leagues merged? Or when Magic and Bird came into the league or when David stern and MJ Barkley came. I ask this cause I know some fans discredit a certain era saying it doesn't count

3 point line.

-Smak

[BoutPractice]

Post shot clock but it only became fully modern once the league was properly integrated, so somewhere in the 60s.

[Collie]

IMO it happened during the 70's, when guys like Dr.J, Earl Monroe, Bob McAdoo and other stars started defining the style of today's NBA. For all the flak that decade gets, it was really the time when basketball was modernized.

[215Philly]

2010

[LAZERUSS]

The game of basketball was invented in the 1890's. And by the late 1890's college's were already playing it. By the 1920's there were professional teams. The NBA, itself, began in 1946.

And the reality is, the game has changed very little since it's inception. It is still played with roughly the same size ball; with the same size basket, and at the same height; on courts with the same size dimensions; and with the same number of players.

True, there have been rule changes throughout the years, but the two main rule changes were the shot clock in the mid-50's, and the 3pt shot in the late 70's (although the ABA was playing it in the late 60's.)

Basketball was already integrated in the early 50's, but by the late 50's, the best basketball players were playing in the NBA, whether white, black, or any other color. I have read those that claimed that there was a "quota" but IMHO, it it existed at all, it certainly would not have involved high-level players.

And for those that claim that the players of the 50's couldn't dribble...how about this footage taken from 1962?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soLH6bau9uo

Here again, the Globetrotters had been performing those feats long before that footage was taken.

Shooting? The jump shot originated sometime in the early 40's. Granted, the NBA in the 50's and early 60's, shot poorly from the field. But, there were many reasons for that. The venues were often cold, and in some cases, even breezy. There is documentation of a Chicago Bulls game being played in FREEZING conditions in the late 60's. The ball, itself, did not become uniform until the late 60's. I personally remember playing in city leagues in the 60's in which none of the balls on a rack were identical. Some were heavier, some lighter, and some were even lopsided. There are photos of NBA players playing with bald basketballs. And perhaps the most significant reason for the relatively poor shooting, was the brutal scheduling. As an example, in Wilt's 61-62 season, he played a ton of B2B games; six separate stretches of three-in-a-row; another three separate stretches of four-in-a-row; and even one other separate stretch of five-in-a-row, and in which two of the games in the middle of that run were on the road.

The scheduling is really significant, too. A couple of years ago the NBA went on strike, and when the season started, they played a condensed schedule to squeeze in as many games as they could. The impact was immediate. Scoring and shooting dropped significantly, and only when the schedule returned to a more reasonable rate, did the numbers slowly rise.

In any case, there was no question that SOMETHING affected the shooting in the NBA in the early 60's (and before.) I have never had anyone come up with a reasonable explanation as to why, player after player, of those that played in the early 60's and into the late 60's, or beyond, shot better, to MUCH better, in the latter parts of those seasons. Take a look at the footage of the '62 NBA ASG. In it you will see Jerry West shooting his patented jump shot. the shot would be identical in his entire NBA career, and yet, in the early 60's he was shooting .419 and .445. By the late 60's he was shooting .514.

There were a ton of other examples, as well. Elgin Baylor would shoot as low as .401 in the early 60's, and as high as .486 in the late 60's. Johnny Green is a great example. In the early 60's he had seasons of .430 and .436. In that .436 season he averaged 15.9 ppg. In his 69-70 season he averaged 15.6 ppg on a league-leading .559 FG%. He would also have seasons after that of .587 and even .599. How about Darrall Imhoff? In the early 60's he had three straight seasons of .394, .386, and an unfathomable .314. By his 69-70 season he was shooting .540. And John Havlicek was perhaps the best example. He played 16 seasons in the NBA, evenly split between the decade of the 60's and the 70's. Guess what, he shot better every season in the 70's, than his best season in the 60's. In fact, in the mid-60's he even had a season as low as .399. Then, there was Wilt. Believe it, or not, in his rookie season he shot .461. It would be the only time in his career in which he would shoot less than .506. But as the decade went on, his FG%'s rose, and by the mid-60's he had dramatic increases. In 66-67 he averaged 24 ppg on a .683 FG%, and in a league that had an eFG% of .441.

And you can carry that argument for those players whose careers spanned the 60's into the 70's. Again, almost player-for-player, an increase. However, the next major jump, and again with no real explanation, occurred two years after the ABA merged, when the league eFG% rose from .469 to .485 in 78-79. Here again, FG%'s just went thru the roof.

Kareem played ten seasons in then decade of the 70's, and ten more in the decade of the 80's. In the 70's he had seasons of .539, .529, .518, and even .513 (and right in the middle of the decade of the 70's BTW.) And yet, and not including his last two years in the NBA (at ages 41 and 42), he shot .564, or higher, every single season in the 80's, including a career high of .604, and even .599 at age 37. Dantley's FG%s sky-rocketed. And how about Artis Gilmore? In the 70's, a 27 year old Gilmore averaged 18.6 ppg on a .522 FG%. At age 35 he averaged 19.1 ppg on a .623 FG%. In between, and from '81 thru '84, he put up seasons of .626, .631, .652, and even .670.

Then, in the late 80's, and into the 90's, FG%'s leveled off, and even declined. Granted, the 3pt shot affected the overall FG%'s, but how do explain the great centers of that period, whose careers spanned the 80's and into 90's, DECLINING? Hakeem had his FG% season of his entire career in his rookie season. Ewing had his three highest seasons in the 80's, with a career high .567 in '89, and then as low as .466 a few years later at age 33. David Robinson didn't come into the NBA until 89-90, but he had his career high of .551 in his third season, and after that, a steady decline.

And then, to make this shooting even more perplexing...in the 58-59 season, the NBA shot .756 from the FT line. Last year the NBA shot .753 from the line, and in fact, the current NBA is also shooting .753 from the line. Hell, in the 73-74 season the NBA was shooting as high as .771.

Take a look at the footage of Pistol Pete, who was scoring 44 ppg in college in the 60's...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfWkiO2Iz08

And how about this interesting fact...from a 6-4 white player who was playing in the 1940's...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Pollard


In the NBA, Pollard was considered one of the best forwards in the 1940s and 1950s, and was known for his leaping ability[1] (Pollard would occasionally dunk from the free throw line during warmups[2]) earning him the nickname "The Kangaroo Kid".

And players like Gus Johnson were shattering rims in the mid-60's with ferocious dunks. Dr. J, Dr. K, David Thompson, and many others were doing spectacular dunks in the late 60's and into the 70's. And how about this. from a 5-9 Calvin Murphy, who was playing college ball in the 60's?

http://www.syracuse.com/poliquin/index.ssf/2007/11/107_points_great_but_did_one_g.html


"He could run. He could dunk two-handed behind his head. He could shoot. And the fans would go absolutely wild. I mean, they were crazy for him."

In any case, the bottom line, is that the game has changed VERY LITTLE since the 1890's.

[ArbitraryWater]

Officially its 1976, merger.

[LAZERUSS]

Officially its 1976, merger.

I have seen that used as one of the arguments, but it still doesn't change the fact that the best players before the merger, barring injury or age, tended to play almost exactly the same after it. Using KAJ as an example, in his 75-76 season he averaged 27.7 ppg on a .529 FG%. In 76-77 he averaged 26.2 ppg on a .579 FG%. Hell, in 80-81 he averaged 26.2 ppg on a .574 FG%.

Maravich went from 27.7 ppg in 75-76 to 31.1 ppg in 76-77. Bob Lanier went from 21.3 ppg on a .532 FG% in 75-76, to 25.2 ppg on a .534 in 76-77. Conversely, McAdoo, who suffered injuries, went from 31.1 ppg down to 25.8 ppg but in considerably less mpg (and again, with injuries.) The best rebounders pre-merger, would be among the best rebounders, post-merger (and Moses was just beginning to come into his prime at the time of the merger BTW.)

And keep in mind that the merger only brought in four new teams, while the other best players from the ABA went to various teams. And, the reality was, the majority of the best players from the ABA, had already jumped back to the NBA seasons before the merger.

The fact was, the game did not significantly change...at all, after the merger.

[CeltsGarlic]

Excellent question OP. Future rep

[Mr.Kite]

This weak shit modern era started in the summer of 2010. Before 2010 and from 1979, that was the golden age of basketball

Now all we have are touch fouls, crying, getting wheelchaired off the court when you injury your shoulder, no shit talking, super friends league.

I say we go back and bring in the rules of the golden age

[LAZERUSS]

I get a kick out of those that argue that today's NBA is a Global NBA, and that the previous era's were drawn from much smaller populations.

But, how do those same pundits explain that the best center in today's NBA is not even 6-10? And that two of the other "elite" centers, Drummond and Jordan, are 6-10 to 6-11, and neither have any kind of post moves, nor can either shoot from five feet away (hell, they can only make 60% of their dunks)? Or that as recently as 2004 the leading rebounding center, and DPOY, was 6-7, and he too, couldn't shoot from five feet?

How about a couple of years ago, when the apg leader was a 37 year old, 6-2, white player, and who only was playing 33 mpg (and roughly about the same size as Bob Cousy)? And the best PG in the league today is the 6-0 Chris Paul?

Or that the leading rebounder a couple of years ago, was a little over 6-8 and white? And in that same season, a 6-11 white guy led the NBA in bpg?

Year ago Pat Riley proclaimed that he could see a future with an entire team of Magic Johnsons. There hasn't been ONE since. And where are the 6-5 "Pistols" in this era? And can anyone explain to me as how a 6-8 225 lb Dennis Rodman was just slaughtering the likes of Shaq, Robinson, Hakeem, and everyone else, in rebounding, just 20 years ago?

And speaking of Shaq...where are the other Shaq's of this world? With this supposed global NBA, how come we haven't had any other 7-1, 340 lb and athletic Shaq's?

And how do the pundits explain players like the 6-5 (and white) Hondo, at age 37, still putting up 16 ppg seasons in his last season, and as recently as 77-78? And against players like Moses, Dr. J, Gilmore, Lanier, Dantley, Gervin, and Kareem?

And speaking of KAJ...he was a rookie in the NBA in 1969. How do the critics explain a peak KAJ struggling to a far greater extent against an aging Nate Thurmond, and then yet, a 39 year old KAJ was just crushing Hakeem and Ewing? Or a 34-35 year old Gilmore, and over the course of ten straight H2H's, averaging 24 ppg on an unfathomable .677 FG% against Hakeem? Or a 33 year old Moses, and way past his peak, and as late as his 88-89 season, outrebounding (and outscoring) Hakeem, who would lead the NBA in rpg that season? All three of those guys (KAJ, Gilmore, and Moses) were playing in the 70's.

Or a 36 year old Magic, and out of the league for four years, overweight, and fighting AIDs, and in less than 30 mpg, averaging a 14-6-7 against players who were playing well in the 00's? Or a 38-39 year old MJ, and obviously just a shell, putting up 40 point games, and 20 ppg seasons?

Durant? Yes, a one-of-a-lind (although McAdoo was VERY similar, and playing in the 70's.) Dirk? One of a kind. KG? One of a kind. Lebron? One-of-a-kind. But then again, so were KAJ, Maravich, and Wilt years ago. Every era has their "one-of-a-kind's."

Could Russell play today? You mean the same Russell who was 6-10, and a world-class athlete and high-jumper, and with a 7-4 wingspan? How about Thurmond? 6-11 and probably 245, with a standing reach higher than Wilt's? KAJ? The same KAJ who would be listed at over 7-3, and who was routinely hanging 40+ point games on Hakeem in the mid-to-late 80's? Chamberlain? The Wilt who would measure 7-3 in today's NBA, and with a 7-8 wingspan, 280-310 lbs, a college high-jump champion and sprinter on his KU track team, and probably considerably stronger than a peak Shaq?

I would love to see these "ESPN experts" explain all of the above.

[WillC]

There are basically three important eras in professional basketball:

1) Pre-shot clock (pre-1954)
2) Post-shock clock (1954+)
3) Three point era (1979+)

In terms of what you see today in NBA games, it wouldn't work so well prior to 1979 since the three point shot didn't exist - taking shots from 23 feet was, for the most part, nonsensical. Instead, the mid-range game was extremely valuable.

So I'd say the 'modern era' (i.e. the style you see in NBA games today) has occurred since 1979, although clearly it's progressed since then with rule changes such as no hand-checking, palming of the ball, etc.

[LAZERUSS]

There are basically three important eras in professional basketball:

1) Pre-shot clock (pre-1954)
2) Post-shock clock (1954+)
3) Three point era (1979+)

In terms of what you see today in NBA games, it wouldn't work so well prior to 1979 since the three point shot didn't exist - taking shots from 23 feet was, for the most part, nonsensical. Instead, the mid-range game was extremely valuable.

So I'd say the 'modern era' (i.e. the style you see in NBA games today) has occurred since 1979, although clearly it's progressed since then with rule changes such as no hand-checking, palming of the ball, etc.

Good point, but once again, it doesn't explain the fact that the best players of the early 80's, in MVPs, scoring, rebounding, FG%, etc, were all players from the 70's. The game may have changed, but the great players of the pre-79 era were just as dominant in their post-79 seasons.

[WillC]

Good point, but once again, it doesn't explain the fact that the best players of the early 80's, in MVPs, scoring, rebounding, FG%, etc, were all players from the 70's. The game may have changed, but the great players of the pre-79 era were just as dominant in their post-79 seasons.

Absolutely. The best players adapt to the rules. Jordan would be a stud in any era. So would (indeed, was) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. The list goes on.

I'm just saying, in terms of style and aesthetics, the modern game has looked largely the same since 1979 when the three point line was introduced to the NBA. Having said that, it took many teams a number of years before they started exploiting it.

Indeed, if you compare the 1999 San Antonio Spurs championship team with the 2013 Spurs runners-up, there is a huge difference in three point shooting.

So you could argue that the modern game is more recent, maybe post 2003.

[kentatm]

You'll hear:

54 (shot clock)
76 (merger)
79 (Magic/Bird)
84 (Jordan)
92 (Dream Team)
98 (post-Jordan)
01 (zone defense)

Some make more sense than others, obviously.

At the moment I'm thinking it was some time in the early/mid 60s (when the league was thoroughly integrated, and the league coping with the shock factor from Russell coming into the league and changing how defense was played). No clue though TBH, I guess it would be subjective.

don't forget things like the 3 point line, hand checking being outlawed, and basketball becoming an international game

[LAZERUSS]

Absolutely. The best players adapt to the rules. Jordan would be a stud in any era. So would (indeed, was) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. The list goes on.

I'm just saying, in terms of style and aesthetics, the modern game has looked largely the same since 1979 when the three point line was introduced to the NBA. Having said that, it took many teams a number of years before they started exploiting it.

Indeed, if you compare the 1999 San Antonio Spurs championship team with the 2013 Spurs runners-up, there is a huge difference in three point shooting.

So you could argue that the modern game is more recent, maybe post 2003.

You're a big fan of Oscar. And we both agree that he would be a great player today...probably at the very minimum, a 25-7-7 guy. In other words, a Lebron-type player (who, is also another "one-of-a-kind" player.)

[gts]

I think the groundwork was laid in the late 60's

I suppose you have to define the "modern game" to have the answer

[TheMarkMadsen]

96

[LAZERUSS]

96

The Kobe era?

[TheMarkMadsen]

The Kobe era?

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/kobe-youre-welcome.gif

[WillC]

You're a big fan of Oscar. And we both agree that he would be a great player today...probably at the very minimum, a 25-7-7 guy. In other words, a Lebron-type player (who, is also another "one-of-a-kind" player.)

Perhaps Oscar's greatest asset was his ability to post-up opposing guards and hit the turnaround jump shot.

That skill would still be effective today. He was a truly great shooter.

I think he could adapt his shot to three point range, which would make him even more effective. He wasn't explosive - not like a Westbrook or Rose - but neither is Stephen Curry. So that wouldn't hold him back; he'd still be a great scorer in today's game.

Having said that, despite their all around statistics, I don't see much similarity between Oscar Robertson and LeBron James.

[LAZERUSS]

Perhaps Oscar's greatest asset was his ability to post-up opposing guards and hit the turnaround jump shot.

That skill would still be effective today. He was a truly great shooter.

I think he could adapt his shot to three point range, which would make him even more effective. He wasn't explosive - not like a Westbrook or Rose - but neither is Stephen Curry. So that wouldn't hold him back; he'd still be a great scorer in today's game.

Having said that, despite their all around statistics, I don't see much similarity between Oscar Robertson and LeBron James.

I didn't mean to infer that, either. Just that his numbers, including FG%, would be Lebron-like in today's NBA.

[WillC]

I didn't mean to infer that, either. Just that his numbers, including FG%, would be Lebron-like in today's NBA.

Yeah, perhaps.

I think the best comparison for Oscar Robertson is this:

A less flashy Jason Kidd... but with vastly superior shooting ability.

[LAZERUSS]

Yeah, perhaps.

I think the best comparison for Oscar Robertson is this:

A less flashy Jason Kidd... but with vastly superior shooting ability.

Without question. Actually...a much greater Kidd.

[Young X]

1980 - 3pt line/Magic & Bird. If you watch a game from the 80's it's similar to how it is now the only major differences are the dribbling is less developed and there's alot less 3 pt shooting/more interior play/more physical.

[WillC]

Without question. Actually...a much greater Kidd.

Between the ages of 25 and 30 (i.e. during his peak), Jason Kidd averaged 16.2ppg, 6.7rpg and 9.7apg.

Jason Kidd is listed at 6'4", so probably 6'3" without shoes. Oscar Robertson was 6' 4.75" without shoes, so has nearly two inches on Kidd.

Therefore, I think Robertson would average over 7rpg in the modern era.

Kidd was a flashier passer but, other than perhaps John Stockton, the Big O was the best at just 'doing the right thing' with the ball - he knew when to shoot or when to make the simple pass to an open teammate.

So I think 10apg (or thereabouts) is very reasonable. The pace is slower now, but assists are more easily attributed to players these days.

It's difficult to know how Oscar would do in terms of points per game. The athleticism is certainly better these days. He wasn't explosive like Derrick Rose, John Wall or Russell Westbrook. Then again, none of those players had a jump shot anywhere near as effective as his.

If Gary Payton can average 20+ppg for numerous seasons (including 24.2ppg in 1999-00), then I see no reason why Oscar Robertson couldn't do the same (and then some).

So I think maybe peak stats of around 25ppg, 7rpg and 10apg are very realistic estimates for Oscar Robertson if he played today.

[SamuraiSWISH]

1980 - 3pt line/Magic & Bird. If you watch a game from the 80's it's similar to how it is now the only major differences are the dribbling is less developed and there's alot less 3 pt shooting/more interior play/more physical.
This.

[Pointguard]

For myself, and I'm not imposing this on others but from Mikan to Wilt's retirement (from 1948? to '73 the first 25 years) it was the age of the "Center." Coaching didn't know how to venture far beyond post play. If Oscar had came into the league 12 years later, he's in everybody's top 5 GOAT list as spacing for non-centers were now a huge part of the game and their creativity was given much more play.

Magic and Bird successfully decentralized the game and brought in an era that was a bit less methodical and more intuitive. The more adjustable players were given more space to be effective. With a dominant center everybody knew where the point of attack was going to be. With an all around, very creative player it was too hard to guess. Shaq was very dominant, the most dominant player I ever seen, but coaches for the most part knew how to beat him. With Jordan it's much harder on a coach because he sees adapts and attacks a weakness all the time.

Embiid can be a new era type of player. He's a Center with wing skills, adroit, impressive creativity, can make adjustments, is very smart with a great touch. But he's coming into a league that moreso favors Wiggins - both are going to Mega. But if the league makes one adjustment in favor of big men (handchecking) Embiid will be the man of that generation.

[Swaggin916]

The 80's based on the eye test. Guys were using two hands and getting space for shots was becoming normal. You watch old games and it's amazing some of the shots the guys would jack up... they could actually make them too which is amazing. They were terrible completely contested shots.

The 90's was a combo of defensive intensity stepping up and more athletic freaks. In the old days everyone had a mid range shot and they would launch it no hesitation. In the 90's players became less well rounded and more specialized.

[CavaliersFTW]

You'll hear:

54 (shot clock)
76 (merger)
79 (Magic/Bird)
84 (Jordan)
92 (Dream Team)
98 (post-Jordan)
01 (zone defense)

Some make more sense than others, obviously.

At the moment I'm thinking it was some time in the early/mid 60s (when the league was thoroughly integrated, and the league coping with the shock factor from Russell coming into the league and changing how defense was played). No clue though TBH, I guess it would be subjective.
You look at Bob Pettit and you'll see a fully modern looking basketball superstar. So obviously 'modern' players were happening a lot longer ago than most people realize. Pre shot clock era I have little to no knowledge of as far as how the game was supposed to be played to best capitalize on the different rules. Integration began in the 50's and was about the ratio of where it is today by the late 60's. The ABA was more similar to the NBA today than the NBA was back then, the 3 point line changed spacing and what the game 'looks like' (physical bruising basketball of the NBA with lots of bigs in the lane and over sized 6-6 and 6-7 guards but hardly any dunks, vs wide open driving face-up basketball with lots of little players with quickness and moves and lots of driving dunks)... one would need to define 'modern' basketball first, before you can try to break down the answer to the question. I think the characteristics of 'modern' are arbitrary, as such, there are a wide range of answers.

[embersyc]

I think the current incarnation of NBA basketball began in 2004-05 when handchecking was outlawed. This lead to way more random players becoming superstars and scoring has been slowly increasing since.

Before handchecking, there was another era starting in early nineties where the flagrant foul rules were originally introduced.

Prior to the in 79-80 the three point shot was introduced as legal in the NBA.

I would say those three developments have led to the modern soft era of NBA basketball.

[LAZERUSS]

1956, or post shot-clock.

[LAZERUSS]

There is very little being done on an NBA court, in today's era, that wasn't being done 50 years ago. I suppose you could argue 3pt shooting, of course, except that there were players back then that had the capability of being great long distance shooters. I would stack Jerry Lucas, or Jon McGlocklin up against any one in today's NBA in that regard. And while I didn't see Bill Sharman, he was shooting as high as .932 from the FT line back in the 50's.

The high-flying acts...all have been done before. Gus Johnson and David Thompson probably had as high a vertical as anyone since. Russell and Wilt were legitimately blocking shots at above the square. Maravich was probably even more spectacular with a ball, than anyone since.

[kennethgriffin]

around the time the three point line/merger/live tv/media mvps took over... no specific year

[oarabbus]

1956, or post shot-clock.


Ultimately it seems like the decision of when "modern" basketball started is arbitrary.... except for the shot clock. I think this is the only legitimate answer.

[LAZERUSS]

I have always found this fascinating...

Gus Johnson was 6-6 and weighed about 230 lbs.

Here is some of the very limited footage of him...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkzRjMC1ZpI


As you can plainly see, the man was a skilled offensive player.

And then, how about this...

http://www.cornerclubmoscow.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1&Itemid=2


When Johnson played at Idaho in 1963, he already had a reputation as a leaper of the highest order. One evening at the Corner Club, a local tavern on Main Street in Moscow, Johnson was requested by owner Herm Goetz to display his rare ability to the patrons. The Corner Club was a very modest establishment, converted from a white-stuccoed small chapel in the 1940s with hardwood floors and a beamed ceiling. From a standing start near the bar, Johnson touched a spot on a beam 11'6" (3.505 m) above the floor. This spot was ceremoniously marked with a nail by Goetz, who then proudly proclaimed that anyone who could duplicate the feat could drink for free. A 40-inch (1.016 m) diameter circle was painted on the floor, and both feet had to start inside the circle to ensure a standing start. A full 23 years went by with many attempts at Gus Johnson's Nail, including Bill Walton in the summer of 1984, but there were no successes.

That was until 1986, when the College of Southern Idaho basketball team from Twin Falls stopped in town in January on their way to a game against NIC in Coeur d'Alene. Joey Johnson, a younger brother of then NBA star Dennis Johnson, was brought into the Corner Club for a try. The 6'3" (1.905 m) guard had a 48" (1.219 m) vertical leap and could put his chin on a basketball rim (10 feet (3.048 m)) with a running start.

Johnson laced up his shoes and touched the nail on his first try but was disqualified because he did not start with both feet inside the 40-inch circle. The next attempt came from a legal static start but was just a bit short. On his third try, Johnson grabbed and bent the legendary nail, a landmark event in Vandal sports history. Goetz pulled the nail out of the beam and pounded it back in, a half inch (13 mm) higher.

Now, given all of the above, those that believe the 60's NBA was comprised of 6-5 white accountants...probably would think that Gus was a career 30-20 player, right? Surely with all that athleticism, and skill-set, he was unstoppable.

Johnson did have a stellar NBA career, (in fact a HOF career), but his career NBA averages were 16.2 ppg, 12.7 rpg, and a .440 FG%. He only had one season of 20+ ppg (20.7 ppg to be exact), and one other season above 19 ppg. In his best rebounding season, he averaged 17.1 rpg (and his next best was at 13.9 rpg.) His high FG% season was at .467.

Granted, he did have nagging knee problems in his career, but still, one would have thought that he would have just trashed the NBA.

Evidently those "6-5 white accountants" were not as bad as some might have you believe.