People feel bad for Melo but are chanting "Empty stats" when it comes to Love [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

D.J.

02-25-2014, 11:54 PM

k0kakw0rld

02-26-2014, 12:02 AM

This is going to be the first time Melo has missed the playoffs. He has also been to the WCF being the #1 option. Granted that '09 season was the only time he's been past the 1st round, but Dominique Wilkins in 8 playoff appearances with the Hawks was one and done in 5 of them and never got past the 2nd round. So it's not like Nique is much better in that regard and certainly no one refers to him as an empty stats player.

Kevin Love has yet to win more than 31 games with Minnesota(though he will this year) and he can't use the poor teammates line anymore. He's got Kevin Martin and Nikola Pekovic both dropping almost 20 a night. Ricky Rubio is averaging almost 9 APG and almost 3 SPG. He's got 3 teammates averaging 19/3/2 and shooting 40% from downtown, 18/9, and 9/9/5/3. Not to mention Love himself is averaging 27/13/4. And despite the monster numbers and finally some halfway competent teammates, they still have a losing record despite being top 10 in both offensive AND defensive rating.

:biggums:

You said it your self he is averaging 27/13/4 how can you blame him? I guess he needs to average 40 PPG despite having monster numbers, his team still losing. The team is the issue not him. He is doing what he got to do.

24.2 PPG, 13.9 RPG, 5.0 APG Kevin Garnett's MVP season stats. Pretty similar to Love. Obviously the defensive impact that KG had is not comparable to what Love is contributing to his team right now. Still, numbers wise it's very similar. Someone needs to get the blame but please it's not his fault.\

D.J.

02-26-2014, 12:08 AM

:biggums:

You said it your self he is averaging 27/13/4 how can you blame him? I guess he needs to average 40 PPG despite having monster numbers, his team still losing. The team is the issue not him. He is doing what he got to do.

24.2 PPG, 13.9 RPG, 5.0 APG Kevin Garnett's MVP season stats. Pretty similar to Love. Obviously the defensive impact that KG had is not comparable to what Love is contributing to his team right now. Still, numbers wise it's very similar. Someone needs to get the blame but please it's not his fault.\

How can I blame him? He's the star of the team, finally has guys who can somewhat ball, and they're still under .500. KG had far worse teammates on the regular and consistently won around 50 games. They're top 10 in both offensive and defensive rating, he has help now. They're still under .500. Yes, I do blame him. They obviously shouldn't be on a 60 win pace, but a team playing like that should easily be on pace for 45-50 wins.

JimmyMcAdocious

02-26-2014, 12:24 AM

Year before Love: 22-60
Since: 24-58
15-67
17-65
26-40
31-51

So far this year, 27-29.

I see gradual improvement post rookie year. :confusedshrug: About 5 wins every season. This year's Wolves is on pace for about 40 wins. That's nearly twice the average!

mr.big35

02-26-2014, 12:28 AM

kevin love haters are funny. what the hell he supposed to do not get any rebounds and score any points.

k0kakw0rld

02-26-2014, 12:34 AM

kevin love haters are funny. what the hell he supposed to do not get any rebounds and score any points.
This.

No he needs to average 45 ppg 25 RPG 15 APG :rockon:

Trentknicks

02-26-2014, 12:55 AM

OP is a ****ing moron, and his mom's still a whore.

Pekovic
Rubio

And probably Brewer/healthy Budinger are better pieces than Melo's 2nd option in JR. Hell even Barea would be a massive upgrade at PG for the Knicks. Love also has no dead contracts (Amare, Bargs) and to a degree Chandler to deal with, nearly everyone on that team contributes.

This is going to be the first time Melo has missed the playoffs. He has also been to the WCF being the #1 option. Granted that '09 season was the only time he's been past the 1st round, but Dominique Wilkins in 8 playoff appearances with the Hawks was one and done in 5 of them and never got past the 2nd round. So it's not like Nique is much better in that regard and certainly no one refers to him as an empty stats player.

Kevin Love has yet to win more than 31 games with Minnesota(though he will this year) and he can't use the poor teammates line anymore. He's got Kevin Martin and Nikola Pekovic both dropping almost 20 a night. Ricky Rubio is averaging almost 9 APG and almost 3 SPG. He's got 3 teammates averaging 19/3/2 and shooting 40% from downtown, 18/9, and 9/9/5/3. Not to mention Love himself is averaging 27/13/4. And despite the monster numbers and finally some halfway competent teammates, they still have a losing record despite being top 10 in both offensive AND defensive rating.
Melo did make the 2nd round last year too.

FireDavidKahn

02-26-2014, 01:11 AM

Year before Love: 22-60
Since: 24-58
15-67
17-65
26-40
31-51

So far this year, 27-29.

Not even Elton Brand was that bad
First two years really shouldn't be included in any argument since that was before Love became Love.

His third year I guess is when you can start to bash him, although he isn't close to where he is now, but just take a look at this rosterhttp://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIN/2011.htmlMichael freaking Beasley was our second best player and Darko was getting heavy minutes along with Wesley Johnson. Only Lebron and KD could carry that to maybe even a .500 record.

4th year again he had a ****ing terrible team around him; however, Rubio finally made it over and Nikola Pekovic started to break out. This year you can really bash him hard for not having a better record. Thanks to David Kahn though we had no SG's and LUKE RIDNOUR played the SG for us all year. Luke Ridnour at the two guard?:facepalm :oldlol:

5th year he broke his ****ing hand and was out nearly the whole year. Not sure why you would bring team record up for this but whatever. Nikola Pekovic took another step and we got Budinger/AK that year as well. AK was amazing and we actually got very good production from Mickael Gelabale and Chris Johnson. If Love never was injured this year we would have been a .500 or better. Not sure people realize how important and good AK really is.

6th year we can bash him I guess. He has been clutch in some games but overall for the year I think he has dropped the ball a bit in the 4th quarter. We will finish right at .500 or maybe 2-3 games above and just miss the play offs. What's funny is that if we played in the East all year long we would probably be competing for the 3rd seed.:oldlol:

Lebron, KD and Paul are probably the only players in the league who can significantly carry any supporting cast to success right now. Those are the only true superstars in the league (although the media sort of dictates who is a superstar). Love is an extremely good player but he isn't on this level and I don't get why he gets bashed for it. You give him a supporting cast like what Paul George has or what LMA has and you would see results that are almost identical to what those players are seeing.

David Kahn is the one who really should be bashed more than anyone with his historically bad drafting and transactions (we had the right to Motiejunas, Chandler Parsons and Mirotic and sold them all away:biggums: ) If you want to blame Love for not being able to carry a team like Lebron, KD or Paul can then go ahead. He isn't that good, plain and simple. That; however, doesn't take away from the fact that he can do things that very few players can do and is a damn good player.

Finally, I wont blame Love one bit if he bolts. In fact I almost encourage it because he had to deal with the clown that was David Kahn for so long. Kahn was handed the best assets this club has ever had and the only thing that he marginally hit on was Rubio (even though he hasn't really got much better from his rookie season). KAHN TRADED AWAY MOTIEJUNAS, PARSONS AND MIROTIC FOR ****ING CASH. Let that sink in

b1imtf

02-26-2014, 04:11 AM

Seriously, how many bandwagons are you on? Jesus Christ.
:oldlol:

BrownEye007

02-26-2014, 04:30 AM

never feel bad for millionaires.
What if their entire family gets murdered? :confusedshrug:

DMAVS41

02-26-2014, 09:11 AM

as far as I'm concerned, LeBron was a ringless mofo before joining force with Wade & Bosh. It's not better than Love. He does not have the team to go to the playoffs...End of story.

He doesn't have the team? GTFO!

He has a proven coach and absolutely a fine roster to make the playoffs if he's a true superstar.

Shit...Dirk is leading a team to 12 games over .500 in the same damn conference that is maybe 10% better...maybe.

Something is missing with Love and the excuses have to stop. Never making the playoffs in his career to date???? That is not a good look...

WallIn

02-26-2014, 09:18 AM

I see gradual improvement post rookie year. :confusedshrug: About 5 wins every season. This year's Wolves is on pace for about 40 wins. That's nearly twice the average!

He will be the champion by the age of 35 and crowned The Supreme Ruler of Minnesota

SHABBA

02-26-2014, 09:34 AM

BoutPractice

02-26-2014, 10:37 AM

The problem is not Love nor Pekovic, but the Love/Pekovic combination as your main frontcourt. Love's never had a proper defensive minded C paired with him - a bit like Dirk in that regard... Dirk could do much more with less obviously but no one should expect Love to be as good as or better than Dirk anyway.

Also, the West is brutal this year. In the East the Wolves would easily make the playoffs (even just translating their current record without taking competition into account) and probably go to the second round before losing to one of Miami or Indiana. Just change the conference and the perception would be quite different.

jzek

02-26-2014, 10:48 AM

Melo doesn't do it on purpose though. He scores all those points because he thinks it's the only way they can win.

Love would purposely miss layups and such so he can get an offensive rebound and pad his stats.

chocolatethunder

02-26-2014, 10:55 AM

How can I blame him? He's the star of the team, finally has guys who can somewhat ball, and they're still under .500. KG had far worse teammates on the regular and consistently won around 50 games. They're top 10 in both offensive and defensive rating, he has help now. They're still under .500. Yes, I do blame him. They obviously shouldn't be on a 60 win pace, but a team playing like that should easily be on pace for 45-50 wins.
I'm sorry, this is ISH where white players suck. Please see the "a Dirk led team will never win a championship" thread. Remember, if this were a black player doing this everyone would scream "he needs help." It's not, so just sit back and enjoy the stupidity. To the person talking about Martin and Pek they have both missed plenty of time this year. In addition, you can say all you want about Rubios dimes, but he has been pretty awful this year. I know, because I watch the games, I don't just look at boxscores.

Akrazotile

02-26-2014, 12:26 PM

kevin love haters are funny. what the hell he supposed to do not get any rebounds and score any points.

Maybe play D or somethin, I dunno

Thorn

02-26-2014, 12:36 PM

Part of the reason why their record is so underwhelming is because they've been atrocious in close games, at one point they were like 0-11 or 1-11 or something like that. That's an anomaly.

Even though the Wolves' strategy relies on forcing TOs/transition points and in closer games the other team will be more cautious with the ball, it's unheard of to be that unlucky in close games - you'd think they'd have at least 3-4 wins.

As someone alluded to, both Love and Pek are good players, but putting them together has been a disaster defensively. Neither of them are rim protectors and Pek just isn't mobile enough to be a defensive anchor. Love isn't good either. Minnesota's bench is also awful - think I saw a stat that said Love was +17 per game overall for his team, something crazy like that.

Do I think Love could be better? Probably...but not by much. There's a few quality players on the Wolves (Rubio/Love/Pek/Martin, Budinger if he can get healthy), but their fit...leaves a bit to be desired. Injuries always seem to hit the Wolves as well.

hawksdogsbraves

02-26-2014, 12:50 PM

as far as I'm concerned, LeBron was a ringless mofo before joining force with Wade & Bosh. It's not better than Love. He does not have the team to go to the playoffs...End of story.

LeBron had a great deal of success with a Cavs team that was arguably worse than this Timberwolves team, (if you remove both LeBron and Love from the picture).

Great players can take a shitty team to the playoffs, period.

LeBron won 66 games on a Cavs team featuring Mo Williams averaging 17/4 as its second best player, and a 35 year old Zydrunas Ilgauskas as the third best player. Yeah, he left because he realized he wouldn't be able to win a ring with the joke of a team Cleveland put around him, but he won a lot of games and had some good playoff runs just because a truly great player can carry a team like that.

Now obviously Love isn't LeBron, but you'd at least expect him to pull out a couple of 6-8 seeds at some point. Not asking for 66 wins, but 45 doesn't seem unreasonable for a superstar.

ProfessorMurder

02-26-2014, 01:04 PM

The hilarious thing is to watch Love apologists endlessly hate on Rubio, Martin and Pekovic to make it seem like he has an excuse :roll:

A good coach
A PG who plays decent D and gets 9-10 assists a night
A 20 ppg SG
A big that's one of the best in the league on offense

And they're below .500, some way off similar teams like Dallas and Phoenix.

A PG who can't shoot.
An SG who can't play defense.
A C who doesn't play great defense, next to a PF who doesn't play great defense.

Love had 4 coaches in his time with the Wolves. Melo had one.

Melo had Nene, Iverson, Andre Miller, Ty Lawson, Camby, K-Mart, JR Smith, Afflalo, Chauncey Billups, Al Harrington.

Love had Big Al, Corey Brewer, Beasley, Koufos, Martell Webster, Pekovic, Kirilenko, Barea, Rubio, Kevin Martin.

Melo had better teammates.

kuniva_dAMiGhTy

02-26-2014, 01:10 PM

This thread belongs in the HOF of stupid.

Yeah, lets blame the guy who's a walking 20-10 player....for ALL the teams mishaps. What a splendid idea!

MellowYellow

02-26-2014, 01:10 PM

A PG who can't shoot.
An SG who can't play defense.
A C who doesn't play great defense, next to a PF who doesn't play great defense.

Love had 4 coaches in his time with the Wolves. Melo had one.

Melo had Nene, Iverson, Andre Miller, Ty Lawson, Camby, K-Mart, JR Smith, Afflalo, Chauncey Billups, Al Harrington.

Love had Big Al, Corey Brewer, Beasley, Koufos, Martell Webster, Pekovic, Kirilenko, Barea, Rubio, Kevin Martin.

Melo had better teammates.

Iverson was past his prime, Lawson wasn't developed yet, Billups was past his prime and Afflalo wasn't developed yet.

DMAVS41

02-26-2014, 02:08 PM

I'm sorry, this is ISH where white players suck. Please see the "a Dirk led team will never win a championship" thread. Remember, if this were a black player doing this everyone would scream "he needs help." It's not, so just sit back and enjoy the stupidity. To the person talking about Martin and Pek they have both missed plenty of time this year. In addition, you can say all you want about Rubios dimes, but he has been pretty awful this year. I know, because I watch the games, I don't just look at boxscores.

There is a huge...and I mean...huge difference between winning titles and making the playoffs.

One does take a lot of help and often takes other star players. If that was the criticism of Love, like it was with Dirk, it would be idiotic.

But this is about Love failing to eve sniff the playoffs to date in his career. And I'm on record being willing to give him a pass for his first 5 years, but not this year. I don't care...he needs to get his team to more wins. Other star players in the past would be getting their team to 50 or so wins with this roster, even with injuries...

Also, they just put the stat up on ESPN...in the last 3 minutes of close games...Love is shooting 34% and has a 13 PER...

ralph_i_el

02-26-2014, 04:10 PM

Did LeBron drop his team to the mid teens in wins?

Do you understand the context of those win totals?

look at how booty these teams were!
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIN/2009.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIN/2010.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIN/2011.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIN/2012.html

most of the "best" guys he played with are now throwaway players. Wolves blew it on a bunch of picks (d. williams, J. Flynn). Rubio has been a huge disappointment overall. Tons of injuries, no shooters. Young Lebron or Melo aren't making the playoffs with these teams.

Even now the best guys he plays with are:
Kevin Martin (always hurt, no D)
Rubio (worst starting PG at shooting and finishing)
Nikola Pekovich (no D outside of the post, throwback post player who doesn't fit with this team/league)

EVERYONE ELSE ON THIS TEAM ISN'T EVEN WORTH MENTIONING

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=&year_max=&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=&c1comp=gt&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=fg3

^List of the most 3's hit in a season by a big man. Love is at 130 right now, on pace to smash the record (for some reason he doesn't appear with these filters, that's a bball ref glitch)

He's leading the league in Defensive rebound %
I understand he's a below average man/post defender but not giving up Orebounds is a pretty big part of D too.

of all players playing 28 mpg or more he's 4th in Ortg and 24th in Drtg. 2nd in win shares behind Durant.

He's the most skilled Big in the league AND one of the handful of best rebounders. How can you hate on this? It blows my mind.

ralph_i_el

02-26-2014, 04:36 PM

LeBron won 66 games on a Cavs team featuring Mo Williams averaging 17/4 as its second best player, and a 35 year old Zydrunas Ilgauskas as the third best player. Yeah, he left because he realized he wouldn't be able to win a ring with the joke of a team Cleveland put around him, but he won a lot of games and had some good playoff runs just because a truly great player can carry a team like that.

:facepalm Mo Williams was an absolute beast that year and probably the best possible PG to match up with the ball-dominant Lebron. He shot 5.2 3's a game at 43.6%!

Also Andy V was the 3rd best player on that team imo. They had a good big man rotation and played nasty D.

Also bron is bron :confusedshrug:

ProfessorMurder

02-26-2014, 06:02 PM

Iverson was past his prime, Lawson wasn't developed yet, Billups was past his prime and Afflalo wasn't developed yet.

Iverson averaged 26/7/3/2 during his time in Denver. What a scrub.

Lawson was new but he was as good as Rubio scoring wise.

Chauncey was arguably their best player in the playoffs in 2009.

Afflalo had already turned into a very good defender when Melo was still there. After the Melo trade, when they almost upset the Lakers he played Kobe amazingly.

If you're getting that nitpicky, Big Al had ACL surgery, Rubio had ACL surgery, Corey Brewer was new to the league, Beasley is a bust, Koufos was new, Barea is undersized and riding his Mavs contribution, Budinger had knee surgery, Kirilenko was old, etc.

VIP2000

02-26-2014, 06:28 PM

Do you understand the context of those win totals?

look at how booty these teams were!
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIN/2009.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIN/2010.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIN/2011.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIN/2012.html

most of the "best" guys he played with are now throwaway players. Wolves blew it on a bunch of picks (d. williams, J. Flynn). Rubio has been a huge disappointment overall. Tons of injuries, no shooters. Young Lebron or Melo aren't making the playoffs with these teams.

Even now the best guys he plays with are:
Kevin Martin (always hurt, no D)
Rubio (worst starting PG at shooting and finishing)
Nikola Pekovich (no D outside of the post, throwback post player who doesn't fit with this team/league)

EVERYONE ELSE ON THIS TEAM ISN'T EVEN WORTH MENTIONING

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=&year_max=&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=&c1comp=gt&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=fg3

^List of the most 3's hit in a season by a big man. Love is at 130 right now, on pace to smash the record (for some reason he doesn't appear with these filters, that's a bball ref glitch)

He's leading the league in Defensive rebound %
I understand he's a below average man/post defender but not giving up Orebounds is a pretty big part of D too.

of all players playing 28 mpg or more he's 4th in Ortg and 24th in Drtg. 2nd in win shares behind Durant.

He's the most skilled Big in the league AND one of the handful of best rebounders. How can you hate on this? It blows my mind.

A team with a starting lineup of Goran Dragic, PJ Tucker, Channing Frye, Gerald friggin' Green, and Miles Plumlee have a better record than the T-Wolves, and in the same conference.

BigMacAttack

02-26-2014, 06:28 PM

Love needs to make the playoffs one time if he wants to be taken seriously as a superstar, until that happens you wil hear "empty stats".

D.J.

02-26-2014, 07:55 PM

I'm sorry, this is ISH where white players suck. Please see the "a Dirk led team will never win a championship" thread. Remember, if this were a black player doing this everyone would scream "he needs help." It's not, so just sit back and enjoy the stupidity. To the person talking about Martin and Pek they have both missed plenty of time this year. In addition, you can say all you want about Rubios dimes, but he has been pretty awful this year. I know, because I watch the games, I don't just look at boxscores.

Put the race card back in your wallet.

He doesn't have the team? GTFO!

He has a proven coach and absolutely a fine roster to make the playoffs if he's a true superstar.

Shit...Dirk is leading a team to 12 games over .500 in the same damn conference that is maybe 10% better...maybe.

Something is missing with Love and the excuses have to stop. Never making the playoffs in his career to date???? That is not a good look...

This. No one is saying Love should be winning titles every year. But with a roster like the one he has now, 45-50 wins should be expected and accomplished. If he was making the playoffs, no one would complain. Garnett had far worse teammates and was leading Minny to roughly 50 wins on the regular. They may have been one and done, but they were still making the playoffs. This T-Wolves squad is better than anything Garnett had as a star pre-2004.

ZoPunde

02-26-2014, 08:02 PM

Melo been to the WCF in a tough west so we all know he is capable of having a team built around him, Love not even close

Akrazotile

02-26-2014, 08:05 PM

Iverson averaged 26/7/3/2 during his time in Denver. What a scrub.

People pretty much throw the term "past his prime" out there anytime a guy reaches 30, regardless of what his actual performance is indicating.

qrich

02-26-2014, 08:14 PM

Do you understand the context of those win totals?

look at how booty these teams were!
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIN/2009.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIN/2010.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIN/2011.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIN/2012.html

most of the "best" guys he played with are now throwaway players. Wolves blew it on a bunch of picks (d. williams, J. Flynn). Rubio has been a huge disappointment overall. Tons of injuries, no shooters. Young Lebron or Melo aren't making the playoffs with these teams.

Even now the best guys he plays with are:
Kevin Martin (always hurt, no D)
Rubio (worst starting PG at shooting and finishing)
Nikola Pekovich (no D outside of the post, throwback post player who doesn't fit with this team/league)

EVERYONE ELSE ON THIS TEAM ISN'T EVEN WORTH MENTIONING

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=&year_max=&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=&c1comp=gt&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=fg3

^List of the most 3's hit in a season by a big man. Love is at 130 right now, on pace to smash the record (for some reason he doesn't appear with these filters, that's a bball ref glitch)

He's leading the league in Defensive rebound %
I understand he's a below average man/post defender but not giving up Orebounds is a pretty big part of D too.

of all players playing 28 mpg or more he's 4th in Ortg and 24th in Drtg. 2nd in win shares behind Durant.

He's the most skilled Big in the league AND one of the handful of best rebounders. How can you hate on this? It blows my mind.

And a squad of:
Jeff McIniss - Quentin Richardson (21) - Lamar Odom (21) - Elton Brand - Michael Olowakandi is much better? Yet, they ended with 39 wins.

How about Rick Brunson - Corey Maggette - Bobby Simmons - Elton Brand - Chris Kaman (22). They won 37.

Dude is the epitome of empty stats. Isn't a leader, can't add wins, doesn't even come close to sniffing the post season.

But, you know, he's the best PF in the game :rolleyes:

D.J.

02-26-2014, 08:18 PM

Jeff McIniss - Quentin Richardson (21) - Lamar Odom (21) - Elton Brand - Michael Olowakandi is much better? Yet, they ended with 39 wins.

They were 37-36 and right there for the 8th seed, but lost 7 of their final 9 games.

ralph_i_el

02-26-2014, 10:01 PM

A team with a starting lineup of Goran Dragic, PJ Tucker, Channing Frye, Gerald friggin' Green, and Miles Plumlee have a better record than the T-Wolves, and in the same conference.

and eric bledsoe

The suns bomb three's and Dragic is a star. Somehow Gerald Green is shooting 3's like prime Ray Allen (volume AND efficiency)

How does this have anything to do with the shitty wolves? Minnesota even has a better point differential than the suns. I'd be very surprised if the Wolves don't make the playoffs this season

VIP2000

02-26-2014, 10:33 PM

and eric bledsoe

The suns bomb three's and Dragic is a star. Somehow Gerald Green is shooting 3's like prime Ray Allen (volume AND efficiency)

How does this have anything to do with the shitty wolves? Minnesota even has a better point differential than the suns. I'd be very surprised if the Wolves don't make the playoffs this season

I'm saying that Kevin Love's teammates aren't all that bad, and a team with a worse starting lineup (on paper) has a better record than the Wolves. Aside from Goran Dragic and injured Eric Bledsoe (whose played only 24 games), none of those other guys I mentioned would even start on the Wolves.

qrich

02-27-2014, 07:59 AM

They were 37-36 and right there for the 8th seed, but lost 7 of their final 9 games.

They were just too young, had a shitty head coach (Gentry as an assistant now is awesome though) and needed a veteran point guard.

They made a deal to get an upgrade at the point but we all know how awesome Andre Miller's bitch ass is.

and eric bledsoe

The suns bomb three's and Dragic is a star. Somehow Gerald Green is shooting 3's like prime Ray Allen (volume AND efficiency)

How does this have anything to do with the shitty wolves? Minnesota even has a better point differential than the suns. I'd be very surprised if the Wolves don't make the playoffs this season

An injured Bledsoe. If injuries are being used to excuse why Love is empty stats personified, they should be excused from teams that have inferior squads but superior records.

Maybe Phoenix is better, because, you know, the entire team plays as a team, no one is slightly selfish, and they give 100% effort at all times. No one attempts to pad their statistics in anyway?

ralph_i_el

02-27-2014, 08:58 AM

They were just too young, had a shitty head coach (Gentry as an assistant now is awesome though) and needed a veteran point guard.

They made a deal to get an upgrade at the point but we all know how awesome Andre Miller's bitch ass is.

An injured Bledsoe. If injuries are being used to excuse why Love is empty stats personified, they should be excused from teams that have inferior squads but superior records.

Maybe Phoenix is better, because, you know, the entire team plays as a team, no one is slightly selfish, and they give 100% effort at all times. No one attempts to pad their statistics in anyway?

I'll bump this when Minny passes phoenix in the standings:rolleyes:
the Twolves have lost a lot of close games this season and it has given ammo to everyone who would hate Love no matter what. Right now they would have the 3rd best point differential in the east.

Also if anyone was empty stats it was Bledsoe at the start of this season. His team had a worse Ortg and Drtg with him on the floor.

qrich

02-27-2014, 09:09 AM

I'll bump this when Minny passes phoenix in the standings:rolleyes:
the Twolves have lost a lot of close games this season and it has given ammo to everyone who would hate Love no matter what. Right now they would have the 3rd best point differential in the east.

Also if anyone was empty stats it was Bledsoe at the start of this season. His team had a worse Ortg and Drtg with him on the floor.

Minnesota has a chance to catch up to a team that is injured. No waiis, impressive!!!

What was the Suns record with Bledsoe again? But that is empty stats, okay! Winning = empty stats! Awesome!

Minnesota is 10-21 against .500 plus teams :oldlol:

1-5 in games decided by 3 points or less. Only NY (1-7) and Indiana (1-2) have 1 win in such games. Even the Lakers (4-4), Bucks (2-4), 6ers (6-2) & Jazz (4-2) are superior in close games.

And dude's say he's the best PF in the game, when prime Brand would shat on him.

ralph_i_el

02-27-2014, 09:38 AM

1-5 in games decided by 3 points or less. Only NY (1-7) and Indiana (1-2) have 1 win in such games. Even the Lakers (4-4), Bucks (2-4), 6ers (6-2) & Jazz (4-2) are superior in close games.

That just proves my point :facepalm
Records in close games are pretty random historically (notice the mother****ing 6ers are 6-2 in close games). Likely to revert to the mean.

Minny has a +4 average point differential and has faced the 3rd hardest strength of schedule. If you watch the games you'd see Love's impact. Without him they'd have about 10 wins.

qrich

02-27-2014, 09:42 AM

That just proves my point :facepalm
Records in close games are pretty random historically (notice the mother****ing 6ers are 6-2 in close games). Likely to revert to the mean.

Minny has a +4 average point differential and has faced the 3rd hardest strength of schedule. If you watch the games you'd see Love's impact. Without him they'd have about 10 wins.

Picking & choosing eh. Its fine.

You mean, they would be on par to finish with about 16 wins? Which would sandwich Love's two worst records with Minny? Impressive!!!!

ralph_i_el

02-27-2014, 10:41 AM

Picking & choosing eh. Its fine.

You mean, they would be on par to finish with about 16 wins? Which would sandwich Love's two worst records with Minny? Impressive!!!!

yeah the season when he was 21 and started 22 games and the year where they rolled out a starting lineup of:

Love
Beasley
Darko Milicic
Luke Ridnour
Wesley Johnson

so his starting lineup was 4 guys who are barely even NBA players. The 6th man was Corey "The Drunken Dribbler" Brewer or an injured Martell Webster

Even Lebron isn't taking the 2010-11 Wolves to the playoffs.

qrich

02-27-2014, 10:45 AM

yeah the season when he was 21 and started 22 games and the year where they rolled out a starting lineup of:

Love
Beasley
Darko Milicic
Luke Ridnour
Wesley Johnson

so his starting lineup was 4 guys who are barely even NBA players. The 6th man was Corey "The Drunken Dribbler" Brewer or an injured Martell Webster

Even Lebron isn't taking the 2010-11 Wolves to the playoffs.

But dude is hands down the best power forward in the league :bowdown:

If Elton Brand, who, you know, is horrible compared to Love, could lead Jeff McIniss - Corey Maggette (21) - Lamar (21) - Kandi to 39 wins, surely, Love can lead that squad to 25 wins.

Or if Brand can lead Brick Brunson - Maggs - Simmons - 22 Year old Kaman to 37 wins, surely, Love can surpass 20 wins with any squad :facepalm

ralph_i_el

02-27-2014, 10:53 AM

But dude is hands down the best power forward in the league :bowdown:

If Elton Brand, who, you know, is horrible compared to Love, could lead Jeff McIniss - Corey Maggette (21) - Lamar (21) - Kandi to 39 wins, surely, Love can lead that squad to 25 wins.

Or if Brand can lead Brick Brunson - Maggs - Simmons - 22 Year old Kaman to 37 wins, surely, Love can surpass 20 wins with any squad :facepalm

I don't understand your hard-on for Brand but those teams are for sure better than those Love teams. Love is the best PF in the L RIGHT NOW. I'm not saying he's the best since he was 20 or anything :facepalm

qrich

02-27-2014, 10:56 AM

I don't understand your hard-on for Brand but those teams are for sure better than those Love teams. Love is the best PF in the L RIGHT NOW. I'm not saying he's the best since he was 20 or anything :facepalm

Brand shits on Love and, considering he was a shitty leader and still led squads to double the wins, it's hilarious.

And, no, those teams aren't much better, let alone, 24 wins better. 2 1/2 times better?

Dude is the epitome of empty stats. No defense. Does not box out. Takes rebounds away from teammates. Can not win despite having a solid squad and a damn good coach around him. Complains to the media. :facepalm

ralph_i_el

02-27-2014, 11:03 AM

Brand shits on Love and, considering he was a shitty leader and still led squads to double the wins, it's hilarious.

And, no, those teams aren't much better, let alone, 24 wins better. 2 1/2 times better?

And no, he isn't the best PF. Dude is on the level of Steve Nash on defense. Does not box out. Pads his stats. Is struggling to be near .500 despite having a real solid squad.

But ok.

just highlighting all your bullshit.

Brands clippers had 1 season with a positive SRS (point differential accounting for strength of schedule). That was 05-06 when they really did have a solid squad. Their SRS was 1.75

Twolves have an SRS this season of 4.54. Every single advanced stat points towards Love being a top-5 player in the league. Watching the games backs that up. You're going to look back on this and feel really dumb one day.

qrich

02-27-2014, 11:07 AM

just highlighting all your bullshit.

Brands clippers had 1 season with a positive SRS (point differential accounting for strength of schedule). That was 05-06 when they really did have a solid squad. Their SRS was 1.75

Twolves have an SRS this season of 4.54. Every single advanced stat points towards Love being a top-5 player in the league. Watching the games backs that up. You're going to look back on this and feel really dumb one day.

Pointing to SOS in the NBA, as teams don't face the other conference twice, division four times and most of their conference four times as well :facepalm

But hey, you also think Rick Brunson is superior to Luke Ridnour. What else can be said :facepalm

ralph_i_el

02-27-2014, 11:14 AM

Pointing to SOS in the NBA, as teams don't face the other conference twice, division four times and most of their conference four times as well :facepalm

But hey, you also think Rick Brunson is superior to Luke Ridnour. What else can be said :facepalm

No but Bobby Simmons and Maggette had good seasons right? :facepalm

SRS is ADJUSTED by SOS. Point differential SLIGHTLY ADJUSTED by SoS. I know it's a hard concept to understand but some teams play a slightly harder schedule (ie winning percentage of 53%+) and some teams get a slightly easier schedule (about half the teams in the East have a SoS around 48%). Point differential basically correlates almost exactly with the standings every season, which tells me that minny's record is lower than it should be as a fluke.

I don't know if you've heard about it, but the West has been pretty tough for a few years.

qrich

02-27-2014, 11:21 AM

Because Love didn't play with 19.2 ppg Beasley. Or a guy dropping 12 in 20. Absolutely no talent and Rick Brunson was the difference maker!!!

Obviously some teams have overall higher opponents winning percentages, but that means squadoosh in the NBA, as compared to the NFL or the college game. The Clippers currently have the fourth toughest SOS, should be I be out there crying how unfair it is that teams they are fighting for the third seed with have it easier? :facepalm

Even then, just the opponents win % at the time of the game means nothing as well. Facing a 28-20 side that is on a 6 game win streak is definitely a more difficult task than facing a 35-15 side that has a WLWLW in the past five. Or a team making a move to acquire a major upgrade/getting healthy. Or someone getting injured. This 'genius' statistic takes none of that into any sort of consideration.

Also, when is the last time a top five player missed the playoffs by a handful of games, only a few years after winning eye popping 15 & 17 games in consecutive seasons.

ralph_i_el

02-27-2014, 11:28 AM

Because Love didn't play with 19.2 ppg Beasley.

ok cool now I know you didn't watch any wolves games and are just arguing because you hate Love.

Everything you've said about Love would be 100% accurate in describing Beasley. He's soft, doesn't try hard, Can't dribble with his right hand, couldn't exploit 3's in the post OR 4's of the dribble.

He's the definition of good stats on a bad team. I know that because I watched him play. I didn't just look up numbers on bball ref to support a stupid opinion.

ANTHONY RANDOLPH DROPPED 12 IN 20 (in 23 games)(against backup bigs)

qrich

02-27-2014, 11:33 AM

ok cool now I know you didn't watch any wolves games and are just arguing because you hate Love.

Everything you've said about Love would be 100% accurate in describing Beasley. He's soft, doesn't try hard, Can't dribble with his right hand, couldn't exploit 3's in the post OR 4's of the dribble.

He's the definition of good stats on a bad team. I know that because I watched him play. I didn't just look up numbers on bball ref to support a stupid opinion.

Just like I know you didn't watch any Clipper games, and no one is hating on anything. Pointing out that dude is empty stats personified and you have your panties in a bunch.

And when did I say anything you posted about Beasley? That self destructed.

And yes, I have watched them play, as I am a fan of Love considering I support ALL UCLA alums. But I can be honest about them as well. Obvious you didn't watch the Clippers play though.

Saying Rick Brunson was superior to any point guard outside of Doug Overton and Omar Cook :roll:

ralph_i_el

02-27-2014, 11:38 AM

Just like I know you didn't watch any Clipper games, and no one is hating on anything. Pointing out that dude is empty stats personified and you have your panties in a bunch.

And when did I say anything you posted about Beasley? That self destructed.

And yes, I have watched them play, as I am a fan of Love considering I support ALL UCLA alums. But I can be honest about them as well. Obvious you didn't watch the Clippers play though.

Saying Rick Brunson was superior to any point guard outside of Doug Overton and Omar Cook :roll:

First of all you must not be able to ****ing read because I haven't said shit about Rick Brunson.

Second, I was just listing the reasons why Beasley was empty stats, which nobody seems to be able to do for Love

Third, hell yeah I watched brand on the clippers. I always though EB was a sweet player because he had freakishly long arms that let him play the 5spot also. I was younger then and not as obsessed with bball I admit.