Is Eminem the the best lyrical rapper ever?

[IversonMelo2K7]

Best combination of flow and delivery ever. Tupac had great delivery as well, but his flow didn't match Em.

[VCDrivesAPorscheToWork]

Canibus before he served in the war and came back with crazy ideas

[Derek]

Are you kidding? Pac had the flow. He was one of the greatest rappers ever. Eminem is good, but Pac is way better. I personally liked MC Hammer the best. He may not have been the most talented, but I liked him anyway.

[Bourne]

Lyrically, probably not, although he gets major points for not rapping about the stuff 99% of others do.

His songs can have great buildups... and I have never heard another rapper that could do the same.

[i seen hippos]

Is this a question of talent?

[305Baller]

Ron Artest....

[DLeagueWannabe]

3 Letters....N A S

[Bourne]

Are you kidding? Pac had the flow. He was one of the greatest rappers ever. Eminem is good, but Pac is way better. I personally liked MC Hammer the best. He may not have been the most talented, but I liked him anyway.

Pac wasn't a top 100 rapper. He had emotion, meaningful lyrics etc... but his rap skills weren't that great. Opinion.

[mlh1981]

Kevin Federline

[AirGauge23]

Pac wasn't a top 100 rapper. He had emotion, meaningful lyrics etc... but his rap skills weren't that great. Opinion.

Your opinion= Sh*t

[Bourne]

The one time I went to a rap forum, that was the general consensus. They are hip hop lifers, and I'll take their opinion (and add my own, which is congruent) over yours.

[IversonMelo2K7]

Pac wasn't a top 100 rapper. He had emotion, meaningful lyrics etc... but his rap skills weren't that great. Opinion.

Well having genuine emotion and meaningful lyrics are two essentials to being a good MC, so that vaults Pac up there. I agree his rap skills were not as good as Biggie or Em, but they were still pretty decent. His stuff was not the best, but the most potent and most relevant. In my book he is the greatest rapper ever. Not greatest ever lyricaly, but overall greatest ever.

[bigboi_baller]

Pac and eminem are remembered because they talked about stuff that others dont.

[konex]

I would have to agree with the OP...

[Reef]

Shaq-Fu!

[SCREWstonRockets]

Eminem the best lyrical rapper? You even think he's better than PAC?? :roll::oldlol::roll:

(http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h227/shinedevil/youre_gay_get_teh_****_out.jpg)

[Kblaze8855]

Eminem is a lot higher on the all time list skills wise than a lot of people want to admit. But I dont think hes best. Far as straight lyrics Canibus is at least his equal and a number of people match or surpass them both.

[Skywalker]

Eminem the best lyrical rapper? You even think he's better than PAC??

Eminem IS better lyrically.

[i seen hippos]

I think he means Em is like the guy in the middle of the freestyle circle who spits stuff and everyone is like "OHHHH, did he just say that????"

Pac was never like that.

Basically Em and Biggie were more creative lyrically. Doesn't make them better rappers than Pac.

Em is Mchale to Pac's Jordon perhaps.:confusedshrug:

[kumquat]

Eminem IS better lyrically.

Eminem is the george bush of rap to the aristotle of pac. He's not exactly a thinker.

[IversonMelo2K7]

a number of people match or surpass them both.

like who?

[The_Pope]

2Pac wasn't a very gifted rapper at all in my opinion, wouldn't get in my top 50 rappers. Eminem is better but he's still not very near the top.

[i seen hippos]

Eminem is the george bush of rap to the aristotle of pac. He's not exactly a thinker.

Bush is in no way a creative speaker. lol

All of Aristotle's quotes were stuff Plato said he said. lol

[qwerty]

yo. just listen to the song big weenie. then youll see how good eminem is lyrically

[garytalarino]

Okay, I understand some of you are young and don't know. I need you to research two names - KRS-One and Rakim - IMMEDIATELY.

Also, if record sales don't count (they shouldn't), Eminem cannot touch Talib Kweli, Mos Def, Common, or either M1 or stic.man from dead prez.

[305Baller]

Eminem is up there for sure imho. Nut right off the bat I can name 10 that are better:

Chino XL
Pac
BIG
NAS
Percee P
Chuck D
Common
Mos Def
Talib Kweli
Rakim
KRS
Lord Finesse

[Jailblazers7]

Eminem used to crack me up with some of the crazy **** he said back in the day before he hit it big.

[IversonMelo2K7]

Big weenie is a horrible song, one of a couple on Encore where he straight up embarassed himself. Must have been ****ed up on pills.

Listen to Till I Collapse, Square Dance, Rock Bottom or Criminal.:pimp: The last verse of Criminal is one of the best I've ever heard.

[i seen hippos]

Also, if record sales don't count (they shouldn't), Eminem cannot touch Talib Kweli, Mos Def, Common, or either M1 or stic.man from dead prez.

If you told Em to make a rhyme about anything that would totally outdo anything those guys have ever done, he could do it.

[qwerty]

also, saigon, joe budden >>> eminem, most of the time.

[AirGauge23]

If you told Em to make a rhyme about anything that would totally outdo anything those guys have ever done, he could do it.

Kevin Durant> Em

[LALakerFan4Life]

Who is the best Midwest MC? Eminem, Kanye West, Common or Lupe Fiasco? Please don't say Nelly.

[i seen hippos]

Kevin Durant> Em

doubtfull.

[IversonMelo2K7]

Chino XL
Pac
BIG
NAS
Percee P
Chuck D
Common
Mos Def
Talib Kweli
Rakim
KRS
Lord Finesse

Only Big, Nas, and Pac have put out albums as classic as the Slim Shady LP and the Marashall Mathers LP.

[garytalarino]

If you told Em to make a rhyme about anything that would totally outdo anything those guys have ever done, he could do it.

I shouldn't have to. Put it on wax - bottom line. Put up "Criminal" or "Just Don't Give a F**k" against "Get By", "Mathematics", "A Song for Assata", "Propaganda", "Believe", etc. It's not even close...

[i seen hippos]

we're not on the same wave length here.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

man, i'm bout to throw some old em in. i think stan was his most creative song ever. i remember the first time i heard it, i was like whoa. whats that joint called where he talks about looking for BIG's killers in the begining? that was hot. and the one where he jumps off with i sit back with this bag of this weed that gets me... after his second cd though, i stoped listening. btw pac is the goat. lyricaly big and em were better, but i can give you some material from pac hat showed he did have lyrical skills.

[poorlilrich]

Eminem might have good lyrics, but all his songs sound the same. They always have similar sounding beats.

Biggie was a better lyricist than Eminem; I hate the son of a *****, but you gotta respect him.

[poorlilrich]

yeah em is the best

says the white guy who would buy anything with a backward E on the cover.

[garytalarino]

we're not on the same wave length here.

Jay-Z, "Moment of Clarity", the Black album:

If skills sold
Truth be told
I'd probably be
Lyricly
Talib Kweli
Truthfully
I wanna rhyme like Common Sense
(But i did five Mil)
I ain't been rhymin like Common Sense
When your sense got that much in common
And you been hustlin since
Your inception
F**k perception
Go with what makes sense

It's certainly possible that Em could outrhyme anybody on any given topic if you asked him to. But who knows? Maybe MC Eiht could do the same thing. As long as you're making songs like "*** On Everybody", "My Fault", and "Superman", he's doing it simply for the money a lot of the time.

[The_Pope]

Rappers who are better than both Eminem and Tupac:
Nas
KRS One
Talib Kweli
Mos Def
Canibus
Ras Kass
GZA
Raekwon
Ghostface
Inspectah Deck
MF Doom
MF Grimm
Big L
Notorious B.I.G
Rakim
Prodigy
El-P
Killah Priest

[Suns#1]

Rappers who are better than both Eminem and Tupac:
Nas
KRS One
Talib Kweli
Mos Def
Canibus
Ras Kass
GZA
Raekwon
Ghostface
Inspectah Deck
MF Doom
MF Grimm
Big L
Notorious B.I.G
Rakim
Prodigy
El-P
Killah Priest

add Black Thought

[different107]

I'm not much of a rap guy, but I never really had a problem with Eminems stuff...I dont know why though

[garytalarino]

[QUOTE=The_Pope]Rappers who are better than both Eminem and Tupac [QUOTE]

(that's nonsense - let's just go with Em):

Nas+
KRS One+
Talib Kweli+
Mos Def+
Canibus+
Ras Kass+
GZA+
Raekwon- too much garbage, no excuse for the Immobilarity album
Ghostface+
Inspectah Deck- one good single (Word on the Street) and one good guest spot (Above the Clouds) does not a good MC make
MF Doom- must have at least sold 100k copies (aka "record going aluminum"), even lifetime, to qualify
MF Grimm- see MF Doom
Big L- may have gotten a chance if he wasn't killed, but too much guns and drugs lyrics, overpowering the other stuff
Notorious B.I.G+
Rakim+
Prodigy- studio gangster who will put a cap in your head, if he can reach you from his mansion at the East End of Long Island
El P- so underground his mother doesn't recognize him
Killah Priest- somehow, he didn't offer a refund to people like me who bought the Heavy Mental album

[Duck Rodgers]

Yes.

[mhsbasketball]

Not even close, Pac, Biggie, Nas takes the cake

[Kujo]

Rappers who are better than both Eminem and Tupac:
Nas
KRS One
Talib Kweli
Mos Def
Canibus
Ras Kass
GZA
Raekwon
Ghostface
Inspectah Deck
MF Doom
MF Grimm
Big L
Notorious B.I.G
Rakim
Prodigy
El-P
Killah Priest

Take Prodigy off the list. Pretty much agree with everyone else. Add Illogic, Black Thought, Masta Ace, Brother Ali and Common among others.

[Koolbreeze07]

He's cool, but let me introduce you to K-Rino. Yeah I know you have never heard of this cat, BUT MAYNE this boy will school Eminem. Not to take anything away from him, because the boy has flow and when he's not talking about STUPID stuff he's straight, BUT check out K-rino (Time Traveler, Fear No Evil, Worst Rapper Alive (don't let the title fool you) THe Hitlist to name a few. One of the greatest ever. And by the way he's from H-TOWN (Southpark fool).

[mlh1981]

is Eminem ever gonna come out with another CD? Does anyone know? (not that I really want him to, his last few have been mediocre

[Horde of Temujin]

Rappers who are better than both Eminem and Tupac:
Nas
KRS One
Talib Kweli
Mos Def
Canibus
Ras Kass
GZA
Raekwon
Ghostface
Inspectah Deck
MF Doom
MF Grimm
Big L
Notorious B.I.G
Rakim
Prodigy
El-P
Killah Priest

All better, there are tons of better lyricists out there

rakaa
immortal technique
soul heir the manchild
aceyalone

just to add a few

stop listening solely to the radio

[pete's montreux]

Three words:


GURU

[Suns4Life]

El-P is ****ing terrible, when your Jazz album is better than any of your hip-hop stuff you have put out, you need to shift your focus.

[StroShow4]

all nine members of WU are better lyrically than eminem.. em is good, but he annoys me when he raps about stupid ****.

[DCL]

i think so because his lyrics are actually weaker than they sound. he doesn't got the best lyrics. in fact, he spits out a lot of stupid boring sh!t. they're kiddy whiny teenage insecure psycho bullsh!t. it's kinda pathetic to listen to when you were never at that stage or had already gone past it. but sometimes you might listen to because he has his own style and he's able to turn dumb ass lyrics into tune-able rhythm. if one of the skills of the best lyrical rapper is turning stupid lyrics into goods to get a crowd going, then yeah, eminem is pretty accomplished.

[RidonKs]

It's certainly possible that Em could outrhyme anybody on any given topic if you asked him to. But who knows? Maybe MC Eiht could do the same thing. As long as you're making songs like "*** On Everybody", "My Fault", and "Superman", he's doing it simply for the money a lot of the time.

Em does put out ****ty, mainstream songs just for the money, but that can't be hel against him when comparing his songwriting and rapping skills. He's shown us time and time again that he can put out some AMAZING songs, but we're going to judge him on the 2-3 stupid songs he throws in on every album?

I'm not saying he's the best (not learned enough in the genre to say that), but he still has some terrific songs. A few that haven't been mentioned; 313, Sing for the Moment, Way I Am, Stimulate, among others.

For the record, I've tried listening to some Rakim, and could never get into him. Don't ask why, I'm not sure myself, just didn't find it all that great. Certainly didn't hate it, but didn't love it either.

[Take Your Lumps]

Rakim put lyricism on the map.

He holds the microphone like a grudge.

Didn't you know?

[Take Your Lumps]

Oh, and for the record:

Eminem is absolute trash.

Slim Shady was a top 10 lyricist.

Big difference.

[WuTangWizard]

[QUOTE=The_Pope]Rappers who are better than both Eminem and Tupac [QUOTE]

(that's nonsense - let's just go with Em):

Nas+
KRS One+
Talib Kweli+
Mos Def+
Canibus+
Ras Kass+
GZA+
Raekwon- too much garbage, no excuse for the Immobilarity album
Ghostface+
Inspectah Deck- one good single (Word on the Street) and one good guest spot (Above the Clouds) does not a good MC make
MF Doom- must have at least sold 100k copies (aka "record going aluminum"), even lifetime, to qualify
MF Grimm- see MF Doom
Big L- may have gotten a chance if he wasn't killed, but too much guns and drugs lyrics, overpowering the other stuff
Notorious B.I.G+
Rakim+
Prodigy- studio gangster who will put a cap in your head, if he can reach you from his mansion at the East End of Long Island
El P- so underground his mother doesn't recognize him
Killah Priest- somehow, he didn't offer a refund to people like me who bought the Heavy Mental album

Why are you only looking at Raekwon and Inspectah Deck's singles? Look at what they did in Wu-tang. It's better than Eminem anyday.

[WuTangWizard]

all nine members of WU are better lyrically than eminem.. em is good, but he annoys me when he raps about stupid ****.


I'm not sure about U-God.

[Spike Spiegel]

all nine members of WU are better lyrically than eminem.. em is good, but he annoys me when he raps about stupid ****.

Then may I suggest that you never, ever listen to the radio.

[StroShow4]

Then may I suggest that you never, ever listen to the radio.

i havent listened to the radio in a long time.


Killah Priest- somehow, he didn't offer a refund to people like me who bought the Heavy Mental album

how do you dislike heavy mental? B.I.B.L.E. is one of my favorite songs ever, and one step is really good. those two songs alone make that cd worth buying.

[West-Side]

No, Eminem is the best white lyricist of all-time...he'd make my top 7 list.

Biggie, Rakim, Big Punisher, Canibus, Common...I'm not sure if I'd put him above any of these 5 rappers...then you have Jeru The Damaja, Pac, Nas, Jay Z and so on. He's definitely up there...Scary Movies, Rock Bottom, Till I Collapse...some of his best work.

[ElKuKuy]

Eminem was just as much of a gimmick rapper than Vanilla Ice was.

You want a serious emcee then check out SER MAD.

Cant nobody mess with this fool as far as lyrics go.
He's the only rapper out there touching on issues such as the lies of the government,gas prices,depression,suicide,spousal abuse,the shady music industry,the war,etc.

The fool can paint a picture with his words.

Go have a listen.

http://www.agzilla.com/?p=screening

[Spike Spiegel]

i havent listened to the radio in a long time.


You're set, then. :)

[garytalarino]

how do you dislike heavy mental? B.I.B.L.E. is one of my favorite songs ever, and one step is really good. those two songs alone make that cd worth buying.

I got B.I.B.L.E. on Liquid Swords. I could hardly buy a CD for two songs; for just one song, it's plain out of the question.

[garytalarino]

No, Eminem is the best white lyricist of all-time...he'd make my top 7 list.

Biggie, Rakim, Big Punisher, Canibus, Common...I'm not sure if I'd put him above any of these 5 rappers...then you have Jeru The Damaja, Pac, Nas, Jay Z and so on. He's definitely up there...Scary Movies, Rock Bottom, Till I Collapse...some of his best work.

Speaking of Jeru, I completely forgot Afu-Ra, as well...and Rakaa, just slightly ahead of Evidence, from Dilated Peoples.

[0ne50]

:confusedshrug: No mention of The GZA?
Nas
Big Dady Kane
Kool G Rap
Rakim
Jay Z
Buckshot Shorty
2 Pac
Eminen
Biggie


Not in that order, just my top 10 and no way in hell would Em be at the top of that list. There just places (lyrically) Em cannot go... just like JayZ is a smart businessman but there are deals he would never be able to broker.... and we all know why that is.

[dynagchen]

My list in order:

1) Big Pun:pimp:
2) 2 pac
3) Eminem
4) Biggie
5) Nas

[20 Dimes A Game]

Only just.

[JtotheIzzo]

Is Eminem the the best lyrical rapper ever?

you kids make laugh

[reppy]

I like it when Em raps about stupid ****. How many times can you rap about gang banging, pimpin' hoes and spinning rims? It gets boring after awhile.

"Square Dance" is one of my favorite Eminem songs. I really liked "The Eminem Show", especially its political overtones. Too many people are afraid to say **** that will truly rile the powerful and elite.

[The_Pope]

I'm sorry but Tupac is gash. Unless you're either a) a child, b) a retard, or both I don't understand how you can rate him.

[Lakerz_Forever]

No, Eminem is the only white lyricist of all-time...he'd make my top 7 list.

Biggie, Rakim, Big Punisher, Canibus, Common...I'm not sure if I'd put him above any of these 5 rappers...then you have Jeru The Damaja, Pac, Nas, Jay Z and so on. He's definitely up there...Scary Movies, Rock Bottom, Till I Collapse...some of his best work.

fixed

[Rasheed1]

Better than Eminem:

Biggie
Hova
Nas
Big Daddy Kane
Kool G Rap
2Pac
Genius
Ghostface

Eminem is a pretty good rapper over all, but not the best

[det2orl]

Okay, I understand some of you are young and don't know. I need you to research two names - KRS-One and Rakim - IMMEDIATELY.

Also, if record sales don't count (they shouldn't), Eminem cannot touch Talib Kweli, Mos Def, Common, or either M1 or stic.man from dead prez.


I agree with your list of guys and the next level lyrics they bring but I would definitely put Em in their category. He can rap well about most any subject. And he might be the best battle/diss rapper ever. Only people who are close in that are LL and possibly Kool Moe Dee.

[det2orl]

Eminem was just as much of a gimmick rapper than Vanilla Ice was.

You want a serious emcee then check out SER MAD.

Cant nobody mess with this fool as far as lyrics go.
He's the only rapper out there touching on issues such as the lies of the government,gas prices,depression,suicide,spousal abuse,the shady music industry,the war,etc.

The fool can paint a picture with his words.

Go have a listen.

http://www.agzilla.com/?p=screening


Are you sure you've listened to Em? He's one of the few out now (especially mainstream artists) who does rap about those things.

[305Baller]

HEY IF YOU GUYS LOVE HIPHOP CHECK OUT MY BOYS SHOW...READY CEE. COMING OUT OF NYC.

http://www.myspace.com/djreadycee

[0ne50]

Nas is known for his amazing ability to tell stories within raps, and in doing so still maintaining the stories and the rap (not making things up or just saying things to keep the rhyme scheme). For example on the song 'I Gave You Power' (from the album- 'It Was Written') Nas tells a first person story of himself as a 'desert eagle' semi-auto pistol, describing his thoughts and feelings. In the rap Nas even includes statistics of the gun- the weight, dimensions and bullet capacity. Nas tells a story of all the things he went through, accidentally going off, 'meeting' other guns, being used against numerous people, being passed around and taken through towns and cities. The theme of being passed around continues till the end, at the end of the story Nas decides not to go off and kill anymore people, as a result his owner is shot (coincidentally by a 'newer him') and he is dropped, after this someone else picks him up and the rap ends.Could'nt have said it better myself

[det2orl]

Could'nt have said it better myself


Great song. I like Nas a lot but he has too much "filler" in some of his albums.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

caroline from maryland, she lady heroin vs. brain damage since the day dat i was born, drugs is what say i was on

[0ne50]

Carolyn From Maryland She Lady Heroin
She Elegant Haul Carolyn A S Class Caravan
Key Of Dope, Love When Cat Would Skeet In Her Thoat
She F*ck Killer In Her Condo, Her Benz, And Her Boat
Her Ice Dope, A$$ Is Curvy
40 Years Old, PASSIN FOR 30
GUCCI FRAMES Glasses From Purdy's

[qwerty]

Are you sure you've listened to Em? He's one of the few out now (especially mainstream artists) who does rap about those things.




he's not OUT now. dude retired like three times already. and he hasn't put anything out since that piece of **** compilation cd. and no he's not the only one who raps about those things. check joe budden, saigon, talib kwali, and many others who still do.

[Spike Spiegel]

he's not OUT now. dude retired like three times already. and he hasn't put anything out since that piece of **** compilation cd. and no he's not the only one who raps about those things. check joe budden, saigon, talib kwali, and many others who still do.

Joe Budden is incredibly inconsistant.

Pump, pump, pump it up!!!

And why would the compilation cdbe a piece of **** when it has a lot of his better stuff on it?

[number9baller]

Em = GOAT.

[IBLEEDGREEN43]

one thing that amazes me.. as a hip hop fan.. in the years of nas, jay-z, common, all the greats that do it... somewhere DMX gets left out of every single list ive read... are people forgetting he sold more albums than jay-z in there primes, or do people just dont appriciate how dedicated to god DMX is..

[det2orl]

he's not OUT now. dude retired like three times already. and he hasn't put anything out since that piece of **** compilation cd. and no he's not the only one who raps about those things. check joe budden, saigon, talib kwali, and many others who still do.


I did say mainstream. Those guys that you mentioned are much more underground. Although I don't think I would put Budden in Talib's category.

[det2orl]

one thing that amazes me.. as a hip hop fan.. in the years of nas, jay-z, common, all the greats that do it... somewhere DMX gets left out of every single list ive read... are people forgetting he sold more albums than jay-z in there primes, or do people just dont appriciate how dedicated to god DMX is..

I like X a lot too but his "kill em up", "I'm the hardest n---- in the world" songs are far too repetitive and tend to overshadow his more introspective stuff.


"I Miss You" damn near had me in tears the first time I heard it, it reminded me so much of my grandfather and the thoughts I had when I lost him. :cry:

Plus he lacks the versatility to do anything outside of "his flow"

[IBall280]

nah i like 2pac as the best lyrical rapper ever.:banana: :rockon:

[Enigmatism]

One thing i've learned is that you can always tell how much hiphop a person knows by who they say are the best rappers, and anyone who says it's Eminem knows next to nothing.

[monthh]

My best rappers ever, when taking into account skills, lyrics, consistancy, classic material, replay value, and album sales.

1. Nas
2. Rakim
3. 2Pac
4. Jay-Z
5. KRS-One
6. Biggie
7. Common
8. Big Pun
9. Eminem
10. Big Daddy Kane

These are not the hottest guys out, or the best selling, or my favorites. These are just the guys that I think overall should be the first selected to a hip hop hall of fame if one was created.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

Dwayne Carter deserves a mention in a top 20 list

[rawimpact]

Best combination of flow and delivery ever. Tupac had great delivery as well, but his flow didn't match Em.

hah... this is what happens whens when you listen to mainstream crap. And even in mainstream there is better, such as immortal technique http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=179mQaGnRnE

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

hah... this is what happens whens when you listen to mainstream crap. And even in mainstream there is better, such as immortal technique http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=179mQaGnRnE

LMFAO. Technique is nowhere near the caliber of Eminem in terms of delivery, you phucking fool. And I'm no hiphop guru, but those two have been the most prevalent artists on my iPod ever since I was like 15.

[arkain]

Guru is the GOAT lyricist !

[rawimpact]

LMFAO. Technique is nowhere near the caliber of Eminem in terms of delivery, you phucking fool. And I'm no hiphop guru, but those two have been the most prevalent artists on my iPod ever since I was like 15.

Like most things discussed in this forum, we all have our own opinion.

[Dasher]

One thing i've learned is that you can always tell how much hiphop a person knows by who they say are the best rappers, and anyone who says it's Eminem knows next to nothing.
We are in agreement here. The level of disrespect 2Pac is beginning to receive is baffling. Pac is one of the most important MCs to ever touch a mic.

[picc84]

I prefer pac as a rapper but lyrics wise he cant mess with Em. People love to put pac on this pedestal as if he was the best at everything, big too. Many people were nicer with lyrics and wordplay.

[Gunnin4HoLeS]

Are you kidding? Pac had the flow. He was one of the greatest rappers ever. Eminem is good, but Pac is way better. I personally liked MC Hammer the best. He may not have been the most talented, but I liked him anyway.
ehhh No. Pac is the most overrated rapper. Dont get me wrong he is a legend in his way but as far as lyrics then No. He has impactful lyrics and has been influential but it has more so to do with his death than his work....real talk

[Dasher]

ehhh No. Pac is the most overrated rapper. Dont get me wrong he is a legend in his way but as far as lyrics then No. He has impactful lyrics and has been influential but it has more so to do with his death than his work....real talk :oldlol: Pac was just as big, if not bigger alive, as he was post-mortem. Pac and his catalogue are actually beginning to become undervalued by the thrice removed e-rap generation. When someone says Pac was not lyrical they are showing their ignorance. Death did way more for the legacies of Big Pun, Big L, Freaky Tah, and Notorious.

[Gunnin4HoLeS]

:oldlol: Pac was just as big, if not bigger alive, as he was post-mortem. Pac and his catalogue are actually beginning to become undervalued by the thrice removed e-rap generation. When someone says Pac was not lyrical they are showing their ignorance. Death did way more for the legacies of Big Pun, Big L, Freaky Tah, and Notorious.
When you say Pac was one of the best lyrically you can seriously put him in... Big L's - 7 minute freestyle categorie... Nas's Illmatic.... Biggies Ready to die? Krs One... Really is he any better than any.. Pac can spit. no denying that. Pac rhymes..thats it ,he rhymes. He might be the most influential but put him in a room with all those plus maybe a Rakim and my friend he will not be relevant..

[Dasher]

Do any of you know what lyricism is? Big L is not a lyricist. His lyrics have almost no depth or meaning. Pac was a lyrical essayist. His metaphors always had a point. They weren't just throwaway ooooweeee lines like you children seem to think are great. Brenda's Got A Baby packs more depth than every song on Illmatic combined.

[Gunnin4HoLeS]

Do any of you know what lyricism is? Big L is not a lyricist. His lyrics have almost no depth or meaning. Pac was a lyrical essayist. His metaphors always had a point. They weren't just throwaway ooooweeee lines like you children seem to think are great. Brenda's Got A Baby packs more depth than every song on Illmatic combined.
:applause:

you just proved you are a Pac D!ckrider. Just like anybody on the west coast ( I do not really care if you are not)... I am from L.A ... the town of Pac and yah I am a fan..but somewhere down the line I noticed you know what? What Pac album can you say is better than a BIG album?? Really.. any album of Pacs better than Nas illmatic or a It was written?..sorry if im getting out of topic comparing albums now but i am trying to make a point that Pac could not gather himself for one album to make a whole complete one. There were always some holes on one of his albums hence: The don Killumanati

[Younggrease]

Many people were nicer with lyrics and wordplay.

please point me to the many people nicer then Big

[Dasher]

:oldlol:Someone caught feelings. Again define lyrics and lyricism. What do you know about essay form and the proper use of metaphor? You don't actually seem to have a real grasp of the concept. If you were knowledgeable about these things you would be able to listen to hip hop with the proper perspective. Illmatic as I have said multiple times is essentially a very well-made album about absolutely nothing. All Eyez On Me easily stands up to the best work Nas has ever produced. Your beloved Source gave it 5 mics. Your Bible also gave Me Against the World a 5 mic rating.

Stay in your lane kid, and leave talking about music to the adults.

[Gunnin4HoLeS]

:oldlol:Someone caught feelings. Again define lyrics and lyricism. What do you know about essay form and the proper use of metaphor? You don't actually seem to have a real grasp of the concept. If you were knowledgeable about these things you would be able to listen to hip hop with the proper perspective. Illmatic as I have said multiple times is essentially a very well-made album about absolutely nothing. All Eyez On Me easily stands up to the best work Nas has ever produced. Your beloved Source gave it 5 mics. Your Bible also gave Me Against the World a 5 mic rating.

Stay in your lane kid, and leave talking about music to the adults.
No feelings at all. I just find it difficult to validate myself with someone who thinks PLIES is a lyrical genius...that alone makes me not want to argue with you. If you insist I will... Pac< Nas, Biggie, Jay, KRS

Influence?
Pac> and you can name countless others.

[Dasher]

No feelings at all. I just find it difficult to validate myself with someone who thinks PLIES is a lyrical genius...that alone makes me not want to argue with you. If you insist I will... Pac< Nas, Biggie, Jay, KRS

Influence?
Pac> and you can name countless others.LOL, you inability to grasp the greatness of Plies, when I spelled it out multiple times shows your lack of depth. Plies' greatness lies in the manner that he pulls off his character. Think Sasha Baron Cohen.

Once again give me your definition of lyric(ism). You continue to skirt this issue, which leads me to believe that you actually do not have an idea of what you are talking about, and are only parroting the conventional views given to you by the self-appointed mainstream hip hop "cognoscenti".

[plowking]

How can people say Pac wasn't a great lyracist?
His words evoked emotions in people and had meaning behind them that many rappers today don't seem to have. Having the most complex lyrics like Immortal Technique, Notorious BIG and Nas doesn't make you a better lyracist then the next guy, it's what the words do that determine how great the lyrics really are.

Pac might have been one of the greatest at this.

[Spudjjay]

Hell no, he isn't even anywhere near Joe Budden. Just because he's a successful white rapper with good lyrics, doesn't mean he's the GOAT lyricist.

[plowking]

Dwayne Carter deserves a mention in a top 20 list

Yeah



















but nah.

[plowking]

Hell no, he isn't even anywhere near Joe Budden. Just because he's a successful white rapper with good lyrics, doesn't mean he's the GOAT lyricist.

Who's that?

[Gunnin4HoLeS]

LOL, you inability to grasp the greatness of Plies, when I spelled it out multiple times shows your lack of depth. Plies' greatness lies in the manner that he pulls off his character. Think Sasha Baron Cohen.

Once again give me your definition of lyric(ism). You continue to skirt this issue, which leads me to believe that you actually do not have an idea of what you are talking about, and are only parroting the conventional views given to you by the self-appointed mainstream hip hop "cognoscenti".
I would not let you on the little secret we call lyricism because If i do you might catch on that Pl!ies is sh!t therefore destroying your superhero which will lead to depression and Cloudy days...How about this ...What is Plies most memorable verse... than I can define lyricism for you.. post one of his best.. ill post say ummm one of your choosings best...than we can compare it

[Spudjjay]

Who's that?

Bless yourself. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmKTiIFyhYQ)
Bless yourself. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_M7cQmDlyc)

He's the last guy on each track.

[Rasheed1]

How can people say Pac wasn't a great lyracist?
His words evoked emotions in people and had meaning behind them that many rappers today don't seem to have. Having the most complex lyrics like Immortal Technique, Notorious BIG and Nas doesn't make you a better lyracist then the next guy, it's what the words do that determine how great the lyrics really are.

Pac might have been one of the greatest at this.

Pac was a great song writer. Made great songs. He wasnt a great lyricist like Biggie or jay or Nas. Biggie & Jay & nas are MCs.. Hip hop is built on MCs and Djs. MCS get on the Mic and rip sh*t.

If you put Jay(or biggie or Nas) vs. Pac on a stage together and have them battle to see who the best MC is, Pac would lose.

pac made great songs that made folks emotional, but his wordplay is not on the level of guys I mentioned

[Gunnin4HoLeS]

Pac was a great song writer. Made great songs. He wasnt a great lyricist like Biggie or jay or Nas. Biggie & Jay & nas are MCs.. Hip hop is built on MCs and Djs. MCS get on the Mic and rip sh*t.

If you put Jay(or biggie or Nas) vs. Pac on a stage together and have them battle to see who the best MC is, Pac would lose.

pac made great songs that made folks emotional, but his wordplay is not on the level of guys I mentioned
This is exaclty what I have been preaching. I applaud you for knowing your sh!t:applause:

[lazerface]

Brenda's Got A Baby packs more depth than every song on Illmatic combined.

i love pac, but this is just foolishness.

[plowking]

Pac was a great song writer. Made great songs. He wasnt a great lyricist like Biggie or jay or Nas. Biggie & Jay & nas are MCs.. Hip hop is built on MCs and Djs. MCS get on the Mic and rip sh*t.

If you put Jay(or biggie or Nas) vs. Pac on a stage together and have them battle to see who the best MC is, Pac would lose.

pac made great songs that made folks emotional, but his wordplay is not on the level of guys I mentioned

Jay-Z? Please...

The other two are simply great freestylers. There is a difference between great lyrics and being able to think on the spot.

Pac was always the one praised for his poetry skills, which says a lot about his use of words and the different ways he was able to get his point across.

[plowking]

Bless yourself. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmKTiIFyhYQ)
Bless yourself. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_M7cQmDlyc)

He's the last guy on each track.

That was average. Really average.

Eminem's old stuff makes this look like garbage.

Go listen to the Slim Shady LP and Marshall Mathers LP.

[Gunnin4HoLeS]

Jay-Z? Please...

The other two are simply great freestylers. There is a difference between great lyrics and being able to think on the spot.

Pac was always the one praised for his poetry skills, which says a lot about his use of words and the different ways he was able to get his point across.
Theres no denying Pac is a great poet.. but what your failing to see is that a great freestyle CAN equal a great lyricist. I am not knocking on PAC for writing, some people do it differently. Freestyling or writing , apples and oranges. The only thing that matters is what is being spit on the Mic when it is all said and done.

[Rasheed1]

Jay-Z? Please...

The other two are simply great freestylers. There is a difference between great lyrics and being able to think on the spot.

Pac was always the one praised for his poetry skills, which says a lot about his use of words and the different ways he was able to get his point across.


Jay Z would eat 2pac's lunch in a rap battle, and Biggie and Nas were NOT freestylers at all.

Like I said, 2pac was great song writer and he was more polished and disciplined when it came to put together something that made you feel it...


But as far as MCs go... Biggie and Jay and Nas make your jaw drop and make you rewind songs 50 times just to hear that sh*t again. IMO nobody can bring it quite like Nas and biggie was getting better every year before he died.. Jay Z is soo clever and lyrics are definitely on that top tier with the best

[EastBayFuNk510]

Im west coast til I drop...but Id say BiG L is one of the better lyrical rappers that I ever heard as well as Biggie..but Eminem is not the best ever..very talented though

[Spudjjay]

That was average. Really average.

Eminem's old stuff makes this look like garbage.

Go listen to the Slim Shady LP and Marshall Mathers LP.

What's your race?

[CasterL]

fuking hell i feel sorry for AZ, so slept on, all theese are better lyrically than em

nas
az
mos def
all of wu tang
masta ace
guru
biggie
jays older stuff
rakim
BDK
One Be Lo




also to all the people slating pac, its not about his lyrics and flow, its about emotion and message with pac

[Rasheed1]

fuking hell i feel sorry for AZ, so slept on, all theese are better lyrically than em

nas
az
mos def
all of wu tang
masta ace
guru
biggie
jays older stuff
rakim
BDK
One Be Lo




also to all the people slating pac, its not about his lyrics and flow, its about emotion and message with pac

good group but.......
What about Kool G Rap?

[Dasher]

i love pac, but this is just foolishness.What is the thesis of Illmatic?

[Dasher]

I would not let you on the little secret we call lyricism because If i do you might catch on that Pl!ies is sh!t therefore destroying your superhero which will lead to depression and Cloudy days...How about this ...What is Plies most memorable verse... than I can define lyricism for you.. post one of his best.. ill post say ummm one of your choosings best...than we can compare itAgain define lyricism. Explain yourself. I have illustrated why I find the Plies character entertaining. You yourself cannot give a definition of lyricism, or defend your position.

[CasterL]

good group but.......
What about Kool G Rap?

to be honest i havnt listed to alot of g rap, just going on what i have listened to fully in depth

[Legend of Josh]

Nothing will ever top Nas' lyricism on Illmatic; a distance second was Big's Ready To Die.

Nothing Eminem has done collectively as a whole is even remotely close to either of those albums. I will give Em some credit, he's a monster when he wants to be. Renegade anyone? Still considering all things, I'd say Big was the best lyrically rap for rap pound for pound (no pun intended).

Don't even bring up dudes like Chino XL, Big L or even Canibus. In some aspects you could say they're very "lyrical" rappers, but like Dasher talked about, that's not true lyricism.

[Gunnin4HoLeS]

Again define lyricism. Explain yourself. I have illustrated why I find the Plies character entertaining. You yourself cannot give a definition of lyricism, or defend your position.
Errr what do you want me to say.. of course your picking apart Plies lyricism (or lack there of).. I can say.. Nas's Wordplay,Methaphors, delivery time> Pac... thats all lyricism whether you like it or not you little girl scout. You cant post Plies best verse or what? Hit us with it.

[Dasher]

That's not lyricism, and in another topic you show your ignorance. Find your lane, and stay in it. Lyricism is being able to use lyrics to construct a cogent thought or tell a story. Pac is superior to Nas in this respect. 2 Pac tends to get criticized for only using one flow, Nas tends to be overdependent on one flow type. It is not like he has a utility belt full of rhyme patterns. Nas is monotone, and generally falls flat when he attempts to go out of his flow comfort zone. Pac actually is superior to Nas in the delivery aspect, as he has more than one flow.

Also what is Illmatic's thesis?

And what does Plies have to do with this? I stated that I like the dedication that he brings to the character, Algernod admits that Plies is an act, and that the character is NOT supposed to be lyrical. If Plies was supposed to be a lyricist and was not good at it, then he would be a failed artist, but being a "lyricist" is not a part of the Plies persona. This is the second time I have stated this in this thread.

[Gunnin4HoLeS]

That's not lyricism, and in another topic you show your ignorance. Find your lane, and stay in it. Lyricism is being able to use lyrics to construct a cogent thought or tell a story. Pac is superior to Nas in this respect. 2 Pac tends to get criticized for only using one flow, Nas tends to be overdependent on one flow type. It is not like he has a utility belt full of rhyme patterns. Nas is monotone, and generally falls flat when he attempts to go out of his flow comfort zone. Pac actually is superior to Nas in the delivery aspect, as he has more than one flow.

Also what is Illmatic's thesis?

And what does Plies have to do with this? I stated that I like the dedication that he brings to the character, Algernod admits that Plies is an act, and that the character is NOT supposed to be lyrical. If Plies was supposed to be a lyricist and was not good at it, then he would be a failed artist, but being a "lyricist" is not a part of the Plies persona. This is the second time I have stated this in this thread.
How did i Know you were going to disagree? From this point on there is no point giving you my thoughts since everything I say is wrong and One laned? You defined Lyricism in your own way and by golly that is the only way it can be defined? Shows how much you know. News flash : Lyricism comes in different ways and styles but its easy to catch people who dont have it, Hence a Soulja Boy... IMO you have had a narrow view on this debate to begin with ..broaden your spectrum

[Dasher]

All that text and you still have no point. G4H, you still have actually yet to truly define lyricism. Give me a defintion, that is all I ask. Where does essay form rank in your appreciation of lyrics? Wordplay is nice, but wordplay and metaphor that are not in the service of putting together a quality song is not lyricism. Metaphor without direction is just written noise.

[Gunnin4HoLeS]

All that text and you still have no point. G4H, you still have actually yet to truly define lyricism. Give me a defintion, that is all I ask. Where does essay form rank in your appreciation of lyrics? Wordplay is nice, but wordplay and metaphor that are not in the service of putting together a quality song is not lyricism. Metaphor without direction is just written noise.
I have given you my thoughts on Lyricism. to you they are wrong .so be it..yet you have ignored my request to post a verse of true genius

[Dasher]

Killer Mike Flip Flop Rock Verse

My ***** Big Boi said, watch 'em as they gawk and they gander
You can follow or lead like Commander Picard
You can have +The Whole World+
Or be satisfied with the boulevard, overstand
this young player's rhyme
I foregoed the crime and I focused on rhyme
Focused on every word, and line
Like a young Cassius Clay in his prime
I was born to talk **** and prove mine, and I'm
the epitome of raw rhyme
Got signed, got serious about the craft
of raw rhyme and I got mine - Aquemini's
murderous monster move minds
Did it so hard that it oughta be a crime
When you see I'm comin holla one-time, holla one-time
When you see I'm comin holla one-time (one-time)

[Boogaloo]

young kats here never heard of Rakim, KRS, Slick Rick, Kool G

[Gunnin4HoLeS]

Killer Mike Flip Flop Rock Verse

My ***** Big Boi said, watch 'em as they gawk and they gander
You can follow or lead like Commander Picard
You can have +The Whole World+
Or be satisfied with the boulevard, overstand
this young player's rhyme
I foregoed the crime and I focused on rhyme
Focused on every word, and line
Like a young Cassius Clay in his prime
I was born to talk **** and prove mine, and I'm
the epitome of raw rhyme
Got signed, got serious about the craft
of raw rhyme and I got mine - Aquemini's
murderous monster move minds
Did it so hard that it oughta be a crime
When you see I'm comin holla one-time, holla one-time
When you see I'm comin holla one-time (one-time)

Verbal Intercourse:
Verse One: Nas

Through the lights cameras and action, glamour glitters and gold
I unfold the scroll, plant seeds to stampede the globe
When I'm deceased, by then the beast arise like yeast
to conquer peace leaving savages to roam in the streets
Live on the run, police paying me to give in my gun
Trick my Wisdom, with the system that imprisoned my son
Smoke a gold leaf I hold heat, nonchalantly
I'm grungy, but things I do is real it never haunts me
while, funny style ****** roll in the pile
Rooster heads profile on a bus to Riker's Isle
Holdin weed inside they ***** with they minds on the
pretty things in life, props is a true thug's wife
It's like a cycle, ****** come home, some'll go in
Do a bullet, come back, do the same **** again
From the womb to the tomb, presume the unpredictable
Guns salute life, rapidly, that's the ritual

[Legend of Josh]

young kats here never heard of Rakim, KRS, Slick Rick, Kool G

I'm a huge Slick Rick fan, but I wouldn't go to the extent to say he's one of the best ever lyrically. Ironically his best album lyrically was his last album, The Art of Storytelling.

Rakim was / is a lyrical genius in his own right, but still nothing on a Big, Nas or even Eminem level. You have to consider their careers all together as a whole, and not just their "rep" ... meaning Rakim had a rep for being the mic smoker, but even if you ask Rakim himself, he'll tell you his flow > his lyrics.

KRS, I'm sorry not a lyrical powerhouse.

As for Kool G, legendary but I wouldn't say he's on that upper echelon of rappers.

[Dasher]

Verbal Intercourse:
Verse One: Nas

Through the lights cameras and action, glamour glitters and gold
I unfold the scroll, plant seeds to stampede the globe
When I'm deceased, by then the beast arise like yeast
to conquer peace leaving savages to roam in the streets
Live on the run, police paying me to give in my gun
Trick my Wisdom, with the system that imprisoned my son
Smoke a gold leaf I hold heat, nonchalantly
I'm grungy, but things I do is real it never haunts me
while, funny style ****** roll in the pile
Rooster heads profile on a bus to Riker's Isle
Holdin weed inside they ***** with they minds on the
pretty things in life, props is a true thug's wife
It's like a cycle, ****** come home, some'll go in
Do a bullet, come back, do the same **** again
From the womb to the tomb, presume the unpredictable
Guns salute life, rapidly, that's the ritual
Where am I supposed to be impressed? In print the lyrics are not powerful, and he is completely outshined on this track by Ghost.

[Gunnin4HoLeS]

Where am I supposed to be impressed? In print the lyrics are not powerful, and he is completely outshined on this track by Ghost.
Apparently Nothing impresses you other than your opinion. I think I am done with this discussion in about 3..2..1..

[Dasher]

Apparently Nothing impresses you other than your opinion. I think I am done with this discussion in about 3..2..1..Can you not point out the hotness in that verse? Show me the wow moments. I can do it for that Killer Mike verse with ease. Let me show you.


My ***** Big Boi said, watch 'em as they gawk and they gander
You can follow or lead like Commander Picard(Star Trek reference, specifically the next generation. Killer Mike was supposed to be the second wave/generation of dungeon family excellence)
You can have +The Whole World+(alludes to his nationwide debut)
Or be satisfied with the boulevard, overstand(The songs theme is ambition, this line deftly illustrates this.)
this young player's rhyme
I foregoed the crime and I focused on rhyme(Thesis of the verse)
Focused on every word, and line(All the following lines are commentary of the thesis)
Like a young Cassius Clay in his prime
I was born to talk **** and prove mine, and I'm
the epitome of raw rhyme
Got signed, got serious about the craft
of raw rhyme and I got mine - Aquemini's
murderous monster move minds
Did it so hard that it oughta be a crime
When you see I'm comin holla one-time, holla one-time
When you see I'm comin holla one-time (one-time)
This is a solid verse and an example of the hip hop verse as a thesis.

[Gunnin4HoLeS]

Can you not point out the hotness in that verse? Show me the wow moments. I can do it for that Killer Mike verse with ease. Let me show you.


This is a solid verse and an example of the hip hop verse as a thesis.
It is a great verse. No doubt.

[starface]

Where am I supposed to be impressed? In print the lyrics are not powerful

and to boot, Nas' lyrics generally look better on paper than they sound when he recites them anyway.

[Dasher]

It is a great verse. No doubt.Where is it great? You posted a verse, that does not leap of the paper at all, and when he performed it he was smoked by Ghostface.


and to boot, Nas' lyrics generally look better on paper than they sound when he recites them anyway.True.

[ruslan]

Where am I supposed to be impressed? In print the lyrics are not powerful, and he is completely outshined on this track by Ghost.

Nas >>>>>>> anyone on that track.

[AllenIverson3]

Eminem the best lyrical rapper? You even think he's better than PAC?? :roll::oldlol::roll:

(http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h227/shinedevil/youre_gay_get_teh_****_out.jpg)

GTFOH
Eminem>>>>>>>>Pac lyrically...

[Dasher]

Nas >>>>>>> anyone on that track.Ghostface is better than Nas on that track AND has the better catalogue out of the two.

[AllenIverson3]

Dwayne Carter deserves a mention in a top 20 list

:roll: I strongly recommend u go to rehab rite now!!!!!!!

[Legend of Josh]

:roll: I strongly recommend u go to rehab rite now!!!!!!!

Why is that? Lil Wizzy knows how to throw them lyrical thangs.

[Richie2k6]

Absolutely not... I can probably name almost 10 rappers with hgher lyrical ability, more versatility and better delivery than Eminem. Elite, but not the best. He had that raw, up n' coming kid from Detroit hardcore style in his lyrics when he was first getting into the game, but even that wasn't the best lyricism.

[Legend of Josh]

Absolutely not... I can probably name almost 10 rappers with hgher lyrical ability, more versatility and better delivery than Eminem. Elite, but not the best. He had that raw, up n' coming kid from Detroit hardcore style in his lyrics when he was first getting into the game, but even that wasn't the best lyricism.

I'd like to see your list...

[Richie2k6]

I'd like to see your list...
Rakim
Notorious B.I.G.
Kool G Rap
Big Daddy Kane
Ice Cube
Genius
Guru
Jay-Z
Nas
Black Star

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

Rakim
Notorious B.I.G.
Kool G Rap
Big Daddy Kane
Ice Cube
Genius
Guru
Jay-Z
Nas
Black Star

Nope, not Cube man. He was loud, boisterous and classically ruthless in his delivery but his overall lyricism doesn't stand up to Mathers. And I like him like infinitely times more.

[Richie2k6]

Nope, not Cube man. He was loud, boisterous and classically ruthless in his delivery but his overall lyricism doesn't stand up to Mathers. And I like him like infinitely times more.
Fair enough. I personally would say Cube is a bit better lyrically most times but I can't say it's wrong to think Eminem is better too.

[BULLZ]

Derrick Rose, if he wanted to, could paint the Sistine chapel, cure cancer, walk on water, AND write dope rap lyrics about his weak "trash core" teammates in Chicago.

That is all. Time to log out now.

[Legend of Josh]

Black Star is a group, not a rapper. Ice Cube over Em? Big Daddy Kane over Em? I loved Big Daddy Kane, one of my all time favorites, but BDK was a swag felt mic presence type mc; yes lyrically gifted, but top 10?

[Gunnin4HoLeS]

Derrick Rose, if he wanted to, could paint the Sistine chapel, cure cancer, walk on water, AND write dope rap lyrics about his weak "trash core" teammates in Chicago.

That is all. Time to log out now.
Not funny. Thank you for logging out.

[dnyk1337]

I'll play... some mcs better than Pac and EM or really even with them.

DMX
Andre 3000
Prodigy
Big L
Jay-Z
Nas
BIG
Talib Kweli
Mos Def
Redman
Method Man
Ghostface
Rakim
Guru
Sean P
Q-Tip

[Legend of Josh]

I'll play... some mcs better than Pac and EM or really even with them.

DMX
Andre 3000
Prodigy
Big L
Jay-Z
Nas
BIG
Talib Kweli
Mos Def
Redman
Method Man
Ghostface
Rakim
Guru
Sean P
Q-Tip

DMX...

:wtf:

Andre3000 is a ripoff of Kool Keith, blah and you even say Q-Tip > or equal to Eminem lyircally.

:oldlol:

[Richie2k6]

Black Star is a group, not a rapper.
Obviously meaning both of them.

[dnyk1337]

DMX...

:wtf:

Andre3000 is a ripoff of Kool Keith, blah and you even say Q-Tip > or equal to Eminem lyircally.

:oldlol:

DMX went hard... Q-Tip is good too.

[Legend of Josh]

DMX went hard... Q-Tip is good too.

You didn't even know rap music existed until what, you said something like 1997? DMX hit the scene in '98, and yes he went hard, I'm a DMX fan but he's not on some lyrical super shit either. I think your views on rap music are very abstract to say the least; I'm not saying that's a bad thing or that your opinion is worthless, but it's certainly left field... saying DMX is better than Em or Pac lyrically is beyond me. Q-Tip. Maybe I'm just being biased; I think he's garbage. I'd say B-Real from Cypress Hill > lyricist than Q-Tip.

[dnyk1337]

You didn't even know rap music existed until what, you said something like 1997? DMX hit the scene in '98, and yes he went hard, I'm a DMX fan but he's not on some lyrical super shit either. I think your views on rap music are very abstract to say the least; I'm not saying that's a bad thing or that your opinion is worthless, but it's certainly left field... saying DMX is better than Em or Pac lyrically is beyond me. Q-Tip. Maybe I'm just being biased; I think he's garbage. I'd say B-Real from Cypress Hill > lyricist than Q-Tip.

Well, I wasn't even living in the US by 1997... I never had the tools to listen to rap until 1999. DMX is not exponentially better than both of them, but I consider him to be on par with them. I like his gritty style.

[jamal99]

Well, Eminem is top 5 lyrical rapper ever, IMO...

[hito da god]

Jay-Z? Please...

The other two are simply great freestylers. There is a difference between great lyrics and being able to think on the spot.

Pac was always the one praised for his poetry skills, which says a lot about his use of words and the different ways he was able to get his point across.
don't sit here and try to downplay the art of freestyling.

[hito da god]

Jay Z would eat 2pac's lunch in a rap battle, and Biggie and Nas were NOT freestylers at all.

Like I said, 2pac was great song writer and he was more polished and disciplined when it came to put together something that made you feel it...


But as far as MCs go... Biggie and Jay and Nas make your jaw drop and make you rewind songs 50 times just to hear that sh*t again. IMO nobody can bring it quite like Nas and biggie was getting better every year before he died.. Jay Z is soo clever and lyrics are definitely on that top tier with the best
nas isn't a freestyler and not a great MC... he won't be tearing down the mic and entertaining at a party, i agree with you there... but biggie was one of the best freestylers to ever enter the game.

on another note, what is with everybody overrating the hell out of big L?

[starface]

Rakim
Notorious B.I.G.
Kool G Rap
Big Daddy Kane
Ice Cube
Genius
Guru
Jay-Z
Nas
Black Star

:ohwell:

none of them are better lyricists than eminem

either you're forgetting the question is about straight lyrical ingenuity or you completely have lost your mind. the "Big Lyrical 3" is eminem, pun, and canibus. again thats strictly for lyrical talent.

guru? genius? rakim? "a nice big plate of fish, which is my favorite dish, but without no money its still a wish!"

that rakim???

:hammerhead:

[Richie2k6]

none of them are better lyricists than eminem
Explain?

guru? genius? rakim?
If any of these 3 can be called better than Em lyrically it would be Rakim and Genius, yes. GZA is almost always regarded as the best lyricist in the Wu. Liquid Swords = the epitome of lyricism. Beaneth the Surface = great sequel. He's a master with wordplay.



Name a crew that can stop the force that I strike wit'
Let alone try to hold the pen that I right wit




I slayed MC's back in the rec room era
My style broke motherf*ckin backs like Ken Patera



The ***** don't get mad, I got mad styles of my own
And it's shown when my hands grip the chrome microphone
Verbally I catch bodies with cordless shotties
Intriguin emcees, I keep em trained like potties



The echo chamber enhanced the flow at the block party
Keepin' emcee heads spinnin like dark bacardi
This B.A.C. is 2.3
Now the liver's damaged, but his lungs are joint free
So inhale, exhale, breathe and get well
Kick something live stop chirping like Nextel


Rakim is pretty much the Godfather of a lot of the lyricism today. He pretty much introduced the use of deep metaphors.



I take seven MCs, put 'em in a line
And add seven more brothas who think they can rhyme
Well, it'll take seven more before I go for mine
And that's 21 MCs ate up at the same time



Shine permanently only my mind’s concernin me
Fire burns in me eternally times eternity
Followers turn on me they’ll be in a mental infirmary
Determinedly advance technology better than Germany



In time no one can seem to blow your mind as far as this
To find you'll need philosophers and anthropologists
Astrologists, professors from your smartest colleges
With knowledge of scholarships, when Ra be droppin this
Some of the things I know, will be in your next Bible
When I die go bury me and my notebook in Cairo
With the great God from Egypt manifest was write rhymes
Align with the stars, I come back to bless the mic


Guru is the one of the 3 I wouldn't really have that much of a problem with if someone said Eminem was a better lyricist than him. That I can understand.



"a nice big plate of fish, which is my favorite dish, but without no money its still a wish!"

that rakim???
You're dissing a lyric that's like 22 years old man. Back in those days that line wasn't considered weird/basic/dumb. If you're gonna compare Rakim to Em then compare Rakim's skill level in his own era to Em in his own era, not pull 20+ year old lyrics and compare them to modern ones.

[blasian]

:ohwell:

none of them are better lyricists than eminem

either you're forgetting the question is about straight lyrical ingenuity or you completely have lost your mind. the "Big Lyrical 3" is eminem, pun, and canibus. again thats strictly for lyrical talent.

guru? genius? rakim? "a nice big plate of fish, which is my favorite dish, but without no money its still a wish!"

that rakim???

:hammerhead:


[Chorus]
Owwww owwww owwwww (oh god damn!)
I'm gonna ****in' come! (oh ****!)
***** **** fuyyuccck (**** I am!)
I am, I'm going to come (I'm coming!)

[Verse 1]
(Ohh yeahh god) I never seen no chick like this,
this ***** can twist like a damn contortionist
condom on my dick of course it is,
this ***** don't know what abortion is
so I cant *** in her,
****s like a porn star, looks like Jenna,
**** I'm gonna,
come I think my rubbers comin' off,
but oh its so ****in wet and soft,
****, i'm gonna start lettin' off
im squirtin and shes not gettin' off,
and shes on top
im gonna fackin' ohh god,
oh don't do that dont, stop,
stop don't, I don't mean don't stop,
oww wait a minute
ow ow **** I...I'm gonna ****in comeee! *squirt squirt squirt*

[Chorus]
Owwww owwww owwwww (oh god damn!)
I'm gonna fackin' come! (oh ****!)
Fack fack fayyuccck (**** I am!)
I am, I'm going to come (I'm coming!)

[Verse 2]
Oooh wow, boo that pow, ooh ow I need a cigarette now!
Ow im so ****in' hot,
and you're soo ****in' hot,
oh my god,
I wanna fackin' fack
no not ****, I said fack ,
f-a-c-k, f-a-c-k, fack, fack fack fackin' freak mee!
Ohh yeah girl see baby they call me Mr Freaky,
lets call your sister, 3-way have some 3-some me so horny!
And you're such a ****in' babe I wanna go down on you, **** you shave!
Ohh god damn here I go again, I'm gonna *** I am

[Chorus]
Owwww owwww owwwww (oh god damn!)
I'm gonna fackin' come! (oh ****!)
Fack fack fack (**** I am!)
I am, I'm going to come (I'm coming!)

*Eminem mumbling*

[Verse 3]
Ok I'm done,
I already came twice,
you aint gonna make me ***,
I'm all outta gas,
Not so fast! Uh your finger just went in my ass!
Ow that hurts! Take it out now
Ohh wait a minute oww put it back in, in in in
this don't mean I'm gay I dont like men
I like boobs, boobs, boobs
Now see that gerbil, grab that tube,
shove it up my butt,
let that little rascal nibble on my *******, uhh, yeah, right there, right there,
Ahhh I'm coming ahhh yeaaah,
fack, I just came again, okay pull it out now,
ohh **** yeah, wait he's not out hes still crawling around up there,
ow **** I think it's stuck
oww but it feels so fackin' good!

[Chorus]
Owwww owwww owwwww (oh god damn!)
I'm gonna fackin' come! (oh ****!)
Fack fack fack (**** I am!)
I am, I'm going to come (I'm coming!)


[Outro]
Shove a gerbil in your ass through a tube!
Shove a gerbil in your ass through a tube!
Shove a gerbil in your ass through a tube!
Shove a gerbil in your ass through a tube!
Ew ew ew ew

that Eminem?????

[playtetris]

That's not lyricism, and in another topic you show your ignorance. Find your lane, and stay in it. Lyricism is being able to use lyrics to construct a cogent thought or tell a story. Pac is superior to Nas in this respect. 2 Pac tends to get criticized for only using one flow, Nas tends to be overdependent on one flow type. It is not like he has a utility belt full of rhyme patterns. Nas is monotone, and generally falls flat when he attempts to go out of his flow comfort zone. Pac actually is superior to Nas in the delivery aspect, as he has more than one flow.

Also what is Illmatic's thesis?

And what does Plies have to do with this? I stated that I like the dedication that he brings to the character, Algernod admits that Plies is an act, and that the character is NOT supposed to be lyrical. If Plies was supposed to be a lyricist and was not good at it, then he would be a failed artist, but being a "lyricist" is not a part of the Plies persona. This is the second time I have stated this in this thread.

lyricism doesn't necessarily revolve around depiction of a narrative event. if it did, slick rick (maybe even ghost) would be the GOAT rhymers. rather, it encompasses many factors including word-play, flow, metaphors amongst other things. each emcee places an emphasis on different factors in their verses, resulting in the variety you see in rap music. for example, you have someone like aesop rock, who is almost absurdist - adopting the ghost 'supreme clientele' style - in his approach to writing lyrics. is there a thesis to his writing? possibly, possibly not. interpretation is greatly subjective when listening to lyrics so abstract. antithetically, you have someone like prodigy from mobb deep, who is very literal and calculated with lyrics, and presents them in such a (cold-blooded) way that they resonate more.

my point is that to define lyricism as a vessel for narrative is greatly reductive. art and literature have moved away from such a simplistic approach over the preceding generations.

p.s. did nas not switch up his flow a heap on illmatic? listen to the rhyme patterns on 'it ain't hard to tell' vs. those on 'one love' or 'ny state of mind'. they are certainly different. not bone thugs/souls of mischief single-time/double-time switching, but different nevertheless. two of the aforementioned joints off 'illmatic' are also two of the greatest narrative joints in history. while there is no unifying theme in 'illmatic' - like in a 'liquid swords' or 'cuban linx' - it is the perfect example of someone blacking the f*ck out on the mic and combining great lyricism with a raw mic presence and ill beats. that is why it is considered so classic.

[blasian]

lyricism doesn't necessarily revolve around depiction of a narrative event. if it did, slick rick (maybe even ghost) would be the GOAT rhymers. rather, it encompasses many factors including word-play, flow, metaphors amongst other things. each emcee places an emphasis on different factors in their verses, resulting in the variety you see in rap music. for example, you have someone like aesop rock, who is almost absurdist - adopting the ghost 'supreme clientele' style - in his approach to writing lyrics. is there a thesis to his writing? possibly, possibly not. interpretation is greatly subjective when listening to lyrics so abstract. antithetically, you have someone like prodigy from mobb deep, who is very literal and calculated with lyrics, and presents them in such a (cold-blooded) way that they resonate more.

my point is that to define lyricism as a vessel for narrative is greatly reductive. art and literature have moved away from such a simplistic approach over the preceding generations.

p.s. did nas not switch up his flow a heap on illmatic? listen to the rhyme patterns on 'it ain't hard to tell' vs. those on 'one love' or 'ny state of mind'. they are certainly different. not bone thugs/souls of mischief single-time/double-time switching, but different nevertheless. two of the aforementioned joints off 'illmatic' are also two of the greatest narrative joints in history. while there is no unifying theme in 'illmatic' - like in a 'liquid swords' or 'cuban linx' - it is the perfect example of someone blacking the f*ck out on the mic and combining great lyricism with a raw mic presence and ill beats. that is why it is considered so classic.

co-sign completely

[ukplayer4]

imo no one even comes close to canibus.

[plowking]

What's your race?

My race matters in deciding which music I like?

[Legend of Josh]

Above all, I still say Biggie was the best lyrically. I'm not saying it's a landslide, but IMO no rapper, emcee, artist etc can top Big all things considered.

[Legend of Josh]

Furthermore, you'd be hard pressed to present a better argument.

[iggy>]

old eminem>>>>>all



i dont speak, i float in the air wrapped in a sheet
im not a real person, im a ghost trapped in a beat
i translate when my voice is read
through a seismografh and the noise is spread,
picked up, and transmitted through royce's head
trapped him in his room, possessed him, and hoist his bed
till the evilness flows through his blood like poisonous lead

[iggy>]

biggie is not that good lyrically. hes just severeley overrated because hes looked @ as a martyr of hip hop. when it comes to lyrical ability there are plenty of rappers superior to big.

[starface]

biggie is not that good lyrically. hes just severeley overrated because hes looked @ as a martyr of hip hop. when it comes to lyrical ability there are plenty of rappers superior to big.

gobb thinks he's the GOAT :confusedshrug:

[Boogaloo]

No mention of this guy? young uns better recognize

http://www.hiphopnerd.com/pics/posts/jeru.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2B5dOCSBBEI&feature=PlayList&p=8000D6682A6D89E0&playnext=1&index=16

[playtetris]

Above all, I still say Biggie was the best lyrically. I'm not saying it's a landslide, but IMO no rapper, emcee, artist etc can top Big all things considered.

big is great lyrically, but it's his presence on the mic and his flow that unequivocally place him amongst the highest echelon of rappers. on a purely lyrical level, i don't think he's up the very top.

[Legend of Josh]

big is great lyrically, but it's his presence on the mic and his flow that unequivocally place him amongst the highest echelon of rappers. on a purely lyrical level, i don't think he's up the very top.

Not that it's all that time consuming, but I could almost copy & paste any verse from any Biggie track from Ready To Die and it would destroy almost any other written rap verse you could find.

Life After Death was huge lyrically as well. Yes, his flow, delivery and raw presence on the mic was sickening beyond anything any other rapper has put out, but his lyrics were just as world-shattering and ground breaking.

Biggie's style blended with his lyrics perfectly. It'd be unfair to say Biggie could have been a greater lyricist, because his lyrics to begin with is what identified the Big Poppa we all knew and cherished so much before his unfortunate death.

Just like Pac's lyrics are underrated, so are Big's. Everyone wants to say it was their charisma that elevated them to the top, and yes that's very true, especially for Pac, but more-so for Biggie it was that raw and gully streets word-play that made people just nod their heads and follow along with everything he was spitting word-for-word.

[Lebowsky]

that Eminem?????

I bet people mean this Eminem


Oh yeah, this is Eminem baby, back up in that mother****ing ass
One time for your mother****ing mind, we represent the 313
You know what I'm saying?, cause they don't know **** about this
For the 9-6

Verse 1:
Aiyyo, my pen and paper cause a chain reaction
To get your brain relaxin, cause they be actin maniac in action
A brainiac in fact son, you mainly lack attraction
You looking zany whack with just a fraction of my tracks run
My rhyming skills got you climbing hills
I travel through your mind into your spine like siren drills
I'm sliming pills or roaches, we sprayed and disinfects
and twist the necks of rappers till their spinal column disconnects
We disinfect then check the monologue, turn your system up
Twist them up, and indulge in the marijuana smog
This is the season for noise pollution contamination
Examination of more cartoons than animation
My lamination of narration
Hit's a snare and bass in a track ****ed up rapper interrogation
When I declare invasion, there ain't no time to be stare and gazing
I turn the stage into a barren wasteland...
I'm Infinite

Chorus:
You heard of hell well I was sent from it
I went to it serving a sentence for murdering instruments
Now I'm trying to repent from it
But when I hear the beat I'm tempted to make another attempt at it...
I'm Infinite

Verse 2:
Bust it, I let the beat commence so I can beat the sense in your elite defense
I got some meat to mince, some fruit to stomp,and then two feet to rinse
I greet intensive ladies, I spoil all your fans
I foil plans and leave fluids leaking like oil pans
My coiled hands around this microphone are lethal
One thought in my cerebral is deeper then a Jeep full of people
MC's are feeble, I came to cause some pandemonium
Battle a band of phony MC's and stand the only one
Imitator, Intimidator, Stimulator, Simulator of data, Eliminator
There's never been a greater since the burial of Jesus
**** around and catch all of the venereal diseases
My thesis will smash a stereo to pieces
My a capella releases plastic masterpieces through telekinesis
And eases you mentally, gently, sentimentally, instrumentally
With entity, dementedly meant to be Infinite

Chorus:
You heard of hell well I was sent from it
I went to it serving a sentence for murdering instruments
Now I'm trying to repent from it
But when I hear the beat I'm tempted to make another attempt at it...
I'm Infinite

Verse 3:
Man I got evidence I'm never dense and I been clever ever since
My residence was hesitant to do some **** that represents the M-O
So I'm assuming all responsibility
Cause there's a monster will in me that always wants to kill MC's
Mic messaler, slamming like a wrestler
Here to make a mess of a lyric smuggling embezzler
No one is speacialer, My skill is intergalactical
I get cynical, act a fool, then I send a crew back to school
I never packed a tool or acted cool, it wasn't practical
I'd rather let a tractical, tactful, track tickle your fancy
In fact I can't see, or can't imagine
A man who ain't a lover of beats or a fan of scratching
This is for my family, the kid who had a cameo on my last jam
Plus the man who never had a plan B
Be all you can be, cause once you make an instant hit
I'm tensed a bit and tempted when I see the sins my friends commit...
I'm Infinite

Chorus:
You heard of hell well I was sent from it
I went to it serving a sentence for murdering instruments
Now I'm trying to repent from it
But when I hear the beat I'm tempted to make another attempt at it...
I'm Infinite
You heard of hell well I was sent from it
I went to it serving a sentence for murdering instruments
Now I'm trying to repent from it
But when I hear the beat I'm tempted to make another attempt at it...
I'm Infinite

[playtetris]

Not that it's all that time consuming, but I could almost copy & paste any verse from any Biggie track from Ready To Die and it would destroy almost any other written rap verse you could find.

Life After Death was huge lyrically as well. Yes, his flow, delivery and raw presence on the mic was sickening beyond anything any other rapper has put out, but his lyrics were just as world-shattering and ground breaking.

Biggie's style blended with his lyrics perfectly. It'd be unfair to say Biggie could have been a greater lyricist, because his lyrics to begin with is what identified the Big Poppa we all knew and cherished so much before his unfortunate death.

Just like Pac's lyrics are underrated, so are Big's. Everyone wants to say it was their charisma that elevated them to the top, and yes that's very true, especially for Pac, but more-so for Biggie it was that raw and gully streets word-play that made people just nod their heads and follow along with everything he was spitting word-for-word.

that's a very good point. while i don't agree with your first sentence, biggie certainly managed to conflate lyrics and style better than almost anyone else i can think of: the braggadocio of his delivery was matched perfectly by his brazenly outrageous similes and one liners ("beating motherf*ckers like ike beat tina").

one thing i really hate about his untimely death is that we never got to see him progress (or regress as it may have been) as a rapper. sure, he dropped mad battle/crack raps while he was around, but how would he have developed as an artist if he had 10 more years in the game? would he have dropped the puffy pop sh*te production as he went along? side note: 'ready to die' really deserved the pete rock "remix" (puff is a biter) on the album. to me, it is more cohesive with the rest of the LP than the album cut; puff's version has those weak tinny drums that irk me immensely.

[D12"Magic"]

Its bad to see him Falling off lately but his shit in the past was sick.
His flow was original, songs like Stimulate, If I had, No Apologies, Rock Bottom are just a few of his best work done. Much better than these fake rappers out there.
BUMP FTW

[ace23]

Is Eminem the the best lyrical rapper ever?
#notsureifserious

[ace23]

Why is Biggie being mentioned in here? He was average lyrically.

Lupe, Elzhi, Common,Nas, and Big Pun share this title IMO.

[miller-time]

em had the ability, but he wasted to much time rapping about stupid shi. more songs like the way i am or rock bottom, less songs like fack or ass like that.

[D12"Magic"]

Murder Murder look up thhat shit

[Rasheed1]

Why is Biggie being mentioned in here? He was average lyrically.

Lupe, Elzhi, Common,Nas, and Big Pun share this title IMO.



:roll:

Biggie beats lupe and them other dudes like ike beat tina... gfto


Nas is the only one you mentioned who was in Biggie's league.....

[DJmicah]

tech n9ne and lupe could school eminem, maybe Andre 3000 too

[PowerGlove]

No one mentioned Kanye?

LOL im serious

[DJmicah]

No one mentioned Kanye?

LOL im serious
:roll:

[ace23]

:roll:

Biggie beats lupe and them other dudes like ike beat tina... gfto


Nas is the only one you mentioned who was in Biggie's league.....
This clown... :facepalm

Let's here some of Big's best lines.

[Rasheed1]

This clown... :facepalm

Let's here some of Big's best lines.

your mom is the only clown I know.....

Biggie is the G.O.A.T you fool I dont need to post his lyrics :oldlol:Everybody already has them memorized..

:facepalm kids today

[Godzuki]

I see a lot of rappers that copy Eminem's style of lyrics these days. but nobody does it better than he does...

[ace23]

your mom is the only clown I know.....

Biggie is the G.O.A.T you fool I dont need to post his lyrics :oldlol:Everybody already has them memorized..

:facepalm kids today
You must be imagining things. Dude is not on Kane's, Rakim's, Nas's, Common's, Lupe's, Elzhi's, or Pun's level.

That's not to say he wasn't great.

[Rasheed1]

You must be imagining things. Dude is not on Kane's, Rakim's, Nas's, Common's, Lupe's, Elzhi's, or Pun's level.

That's not to say he wasn't great.


:oldlol: ^eddie murphy is that you? cuz that was funny right there.


I see you tried to slip Rakim and Big daddy kane in there.. lol

Let me tell you something.... Biggie is a God MC on the level of Rakim, Nas, (Im not even sure BDK makes it to this level) BDK.. But Lupe and common and those other guys dont make it....



If you wanna argue Biggie Vs. Rakim? :confusedshrug: go ahead.. they are on the same level.. the top of the pile

other than Nas & Rakim and Jay Z, maybe (maybe) BDK.... no rappers can see Biggie

[ace23]

Jay-Z is actually better than Biggie lyrically. No debating that.

But for you to say Lupe, Common, Elzhi, Pun, "can't see" these emcees lyrically is just ignorant.

[Rasheed1]

Jay-Z is actually better than Biggie lyrically. No debating that.

But for you to say Lupe, Common, Elzhi, Pun, "can't see" these emcees lyrically is just ignorant.


no.. you having the nerve to ask me to post Biggie's lyrics is ignorant...


I dont think Jay is better than Biggie, he bit alot of Biggie's lines.. Biggie wasnt a biter.. But at least Jay is in Biggie's league

none of those other guys can touch Biggie.. if you mad then I dont know what to say..


'dont be mad..... UPS is hiring' :confusedshrug:

[ace23]

no.. you having the nerve to ask me to post Biggie's lyrics is ignorant...


I dont think Jay is better than Biggie, he bit alot of Biggie's lines.. Biggie wasnt a biter.. But at least Jay is in Biggie's league

none of those other guys can touch Biggie.. if you mad then I dont know what to say..


'dont be mad..... UPS is hiring' :confusedshrug:
http://crazyyetwise.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/4.jpg

[Rasheed1]

its not me hating.. It is what it is :confusedshrug:

like me saying 5 > 4

Am I hating on 4?

[ace23]

its not me hating.. It is what it is :confusedshrug:

like me saying 5 > 4

Am I hating on 4?
Except this matter is completely subjective.

[AirTupac]

I see a lot of rappers that copy Eminem's style of lyrics these days. but nobody does it better than he does...

-coughs-

[Premeditated]

This is one of the worst threads ever created and I haven't even read one single post in here. Feminem is garbage. Him along with 2Pac are the most overrated rappers of all time.

[Eat Like A Bosh]

Yes. Em is different than others, and on a class of his own because he was unique.

[D12"Magic"]

Did someone mention Kanye :roll:

[Rasheed1]

Originally Posted by Legend of Josh
Not that it's all that time consuming, but I could almost copy & paste any verse from any Biggie track from Ready To Die and it would destroy almost any other written rap verse you could find.

Life After Death was huge lyrically as well. Yes, his flow, delivery and raw presence on the mic was sickening beyond anything any other rapper has put out, but his lyrics were just as world-shattering and ground breaking.

Biggie's style blended with his lyrics perfectly. It'd be unfair to say Biggie could have been a greater lyricist, because his lyrics to begin with is what identified the Big Poppa we all knew and cherished so much before his unfortunate death.

Just like Pac's lyrics are underrated, so are Big's. Everyone wants to say it was their charisma that elevated them to the top, and yes that's very true, especially for Pac, but more-so for Biggie it was that raw and gully streets word-play that made people just nod their heads and follow along with everything he was spitting word-for-word.


Big cultivated his voice and his demeanor and lyrics to perfection... he brought all that sh*t together to where he could make all types of hip hop joints.. hard core, songs for the club. He could even say raw sh*t in his songs that appealed to chicks and they still loved it..

he could just straight up say "Im a fat black mofo and yo b*tch will still f*ck me"

"used to call me fatso, now they call me castro"

Biggie was the first guy to pull all that together so perfectly.

[ukplayer4]

canibus>all

[ace23]

Big cultivated his voice and his demeanor and lyrics to perfection... he brought all that sh*t together to where he could make all types of hip hop joints.. hard core, songs for the club. He could even say raw sh*t in his songs that appealed to chicks and they still loved it..

he could just straight up say "Im a fat black mofo and yo b*tch will still f*ck me"

"used to call me fatso, now they call me castro"

Biggie was the first guy to pull all that together so perfectly.
Is this what you call lyrical?

[Rasheed1]

Is this what you call lyrical?

^^
somebody is still mad....

why dont you post a legitimate argument that says Biggie wasnt great?

a pic saying 'haters gonna hate' is not a good argument :lol its the usual crap that kids post on here..

Biggie is a legend... them dudes you like are not legends.. :confusedshrug: its simple. Biggie smallz is your favorite rapper's favorite rapper

[ace23]

^^
somebody is still mad....

why dont you post a legitimate argument that says Biggie wasnt great?

a pic saying 'haters gonna hate' is not a good argument :lol its the usual crap that kids post on here..

Biggie is a legend... them dudes you like are not legends.. :confusedshrug: its simple. refute it or get lost..
I never said he was not great; he just was not as lyrical as the rappers I mentioned. I don't know how to make this simple enough for you to understand.

This is lyrical:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyLLmByA6Y0

[Rasheed1]

Why is Biggie being mentioned in here? He was average lyrically.

Lupe, Elzhi, Common,Nas, and Big Pun share this title IMO.


^^^ this is you? right? that was you that said that crap...


when I say Biggie is your favorite rapper's favorite rapper, I mean that alot of kids today see somebody who can spit some lines and then they look back at big and say

"oh he wasnt spitting all that much better than so & so"

kids talk all kinds of reckless sh*t because they have no perspective... they dont realize them rappers learned how to spit them nasty rhymes because they idolized Biggie and watched him do it.

I bet you them rappers you love? they would tell you themselves they cant see Biggie :lol

you are wasting my time right now...

[ace23]

^^^ this is you? right? that was you that said that crap...


when I say Biggie is your favorite rapper's favorite rapper, I mean that alot of kids today see somebody who can spit some lines and then they look back at big and say

"oh he wasnt spitting all that much better than so & so"

kids talk all kinds of reckless sh*t because they have no perspective... they dont realize them rappers learned how to spit them nasty rhymes because they idolized Biggie and watched him do it.

I bet you them rappers you love? they would tell you themselves they cant see Biggie :lol

you are wasting my time right now...
Likewise

Same things could be said for any rapper. Someone influenced Biggie.

You're posting a whole lot of nothing. :applause:

Good day.

[Rasheed1]

Likewise

Same things could be said for any rapper. Someone influenced Biggie.

You're posting a whole lot of nothing. :applause:

Good day.


thanks, I'll see you when you actually come up with a real argument.


the obvious is that Biggie is a legend and them rappers you named are not..

so that is the end of that :cheers:

[Rnbizzle]

Shout out to Andre 3000, Lupe Fiasco, Nas and Joel Ortiz.

Eminem is a great lyricist, get that straight tho..

[Bigsmoke]

Canibus is too one dimensional lyrically

"my rhyme combine with lyrically mistory hickory dickory :blah :blah "


the best lyricists are Ras Kass"in 1996" and Nas.

[Bigsmoke]

BTW.. just because an artist can write raps very well and creatively doesnt mean i have to suck his dick.

Chino XL is a better lyricist than Masta Ace but does that mean i like him more?

[RocketGreatņess]

no love for nas? that's his foundation, great lyrics because he sure as hell doesn't have the illest beats. kind of like nash isn't the most athletic pg or basketball player.

[Styles p]

guru? i love gangstarr as much as the next but guru isn't really that lyrical. no jadakiss mentioned anywhere?

[TylerOO]

Em is up there. He is the best rapper ever, IDC what you guys say

[Bigsmoke]

no love for nas? that's his foundation, great lyrics because he sure as hell doesn't have the illest beats. kind of like nash isn't the most athletic pg or basketball player.

Nas gets plenty of love... believe me.

the beats in Illmatic had some of the best beats ever by some of the best producers ever.


guru? i love gangstarr as much as the next but guru isn't really that lyrical. no jadakiss mentioned anywhere?

lol @ guys respecting the dead. He was a dope lyrically but wasnt on the level as a Kool G Rap

[Styles p]

Nas gets plenty of love... believe me.

the beats in Illmatic had some of the best beats ever by some of the best producers ever.



lol @ guys respecting the dead. He was a dope lyrically but wasnt on the level as a Kool G Rap

how was i disrespecting him? i love gangstarr but guru is not the most lyrical i never said he sucked.

[sirkeelma]

3 Letters....D R E
Fixed.

[QUIZZLE]

Shout out to Andre 3000..

:applause: :bowdown:

[QUIZZLE]

Shout out to Andre 3000..

:applause: :bowdown:

[RocketGreatņess]

ya'll ***** need to stop frontin', ya'll already know who the best lyrical rapper is.

"b!tches **** me because i look like darth vader"

[RidonKs]

Dasher was on point in this thread. 'lyricism' isn't exactly a word with a common obvious meaning. define it and then give your list. Eminem, Canibus, and Pun excel in so many different ways between them that you've got to nail down a definition before declaring them as the holy trinity.

based on dash's definition, Nas wouldn't rank that high. his writing is good, but it's the way he settles into a flow when he's at his best that puts him over the top. he's got the perfect intonation of every syllable to make songs consistent throughout. thematically they aren't complex or even particularly coherent at times, but he's got enough there to churn out something as remarkable as Illmatic, because of his flow. i don't think it's as one dimensional as Dash is implying, he just stays consistent throughout a verse or song.




reading tetris' post, it looks like he pretty much already said all that.


my point is that to define lyricism as a vessel for narrative is greatly reductive.
sure it is, and every other quality you listed, along with plenty of others, deserve attention. at the same time, i don't think any other facet of hip hop resonates quite as much, at least for me -- and i feel brave enough to generalize that feeling to most other people too. relating to another human experience is about as powerful an emotion as you can have. all on their own, metaphor and rhythm and rhyme and tone just don't emote like that, though they certainly provide a well-welcomed boost.

[bdreason]

I've flowed with random underground rappers that were better than Eminem lyrically. Not saying Em isn't a beast, but just because he blew up like the great white hope doesn't make him a lyrical god. I personally find most of his lyrics and flows after his first album to be corny and forced.

[MakeHistory78]

He isn't the best lyrical rapper but one of the best.
But he is the Greatest overall rapper the whole package.
Eminem can rap in so many different flows and voices(angry,passionate,funny,serious) and the fact that he sometimes flow on beats that seem unflowable.

Some people consider 2pac as the GOAT and this is ridiculous.
Pac was great songwriter but technically Eminem murder him like damn.
And not only Eminem.Nas,G Rap,Jay-Z,Rakim and other.All are better than Pac at skills.Miles away better.

Eminem has the biggest impact worldwide in Hip-Hop history.
Rakim changed the game with Paid in Full but Eminem at his prime made Hip-Hop Famous in all over the planet.
He did concerts in latin countries like Brazil and in small countries like Switzerland and he had 50.000-100.000 people.He is the only Rapper with so many fans in all over the world
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfLHekpRQ_E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmM2irnAwqw&feature=player_embedded
Eminem is the Greatest overall Rapper ever.

[Stuckey]

Nas

Elzhi is nice too