i just realized that lebron doesnt have any more help than 96-98 jordan had

[kennethgriffin]

1 through 5 the bulls were better

Jordan > lebron
Pippen > wade
Rodman > Bosh
prime kukoc > old ray allen
Harper > chalmers



maybe the rest are a bit closer or on miamis side. but this is clear cut.. bulls were better


then theres the era argument



so if jordan can be goat and get full credit for 6 rings. during an era with no other legit threat... then why cant lebron?

the 2000's had 4 of the top 10 players all time during mvp seasons/start or end of prime

- kobe
- shaq
- duncan
- lebron

no other era has anything close..

the 60's had 2

- russell
- wilt

the 80's had 2

- magic
- bird

the 70's had 1

- kareem

the 90's had 1

- jordan


so the weakest era's are obviously 70's,90's,10's


so if the 2 biggest goat candidates ( jordan and kareem ) played their best basketball during the 2 weakest eras. then why cant lebron become the 3rd goat candidate while playing in just as equally bad an era

[K Xerxes]

http://i.imgur.com/HurrjOo.gif

[Jameerthefear]

didnt read

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Most NBA legends had multiple all star teammates/HOFERS on their title team's. People just don't have any frame of reference anymore since they have deluded themselves into believing that Kobe's team's were stacked with just one other all star teammate.

[kennethgriffin]

Most NBA legends had multiple all star teammates/HOFERS on their title team's. People just don't have any frame of reference anymore since they have deluded themselves into believing that Kobe's team's were stacked with just one other all star teammate.

please dont put kobes teams anywhere near the depth of miami/chicago


dont make me f*ck your day up

3rd best player on kobe/shaq era = derrick fisher ( top 400 all time? )

3rd best player on kobe/gasol era = lamar odom ( top 300 all time? 0 asg's )

3rd best player on miami = hall of famer chris bosh

3rd best player on bulls = hall of famer legend dennis rodman



4th best player on kobe/shaq era = rick fox? ( top 300 all time? )

4th best player on kobe/gasol era = derrick fisher ( top 400 all time? )

4th best player on miami = hall of famer ray allen

4th best player on chicago = tony kukoc ( 18ppg as bulls leader )



then theres michael beasley ( 19ppg as leader )

and ron harper = 22ppg as leader


while kobe has scrubs

[Quickening]

10s weakest era? It will have Durant and Lebron in their absolute primes... both of these guys will end up above Kobe, Durant just needs a couple of championships as the man, his stats are going to be ridiculous over the next 10 years.

Lebrons Miami team if you actually look at the ages of players, how they played, there health (Wade)... Lebron has had no more help on this team than any other superstar other the last 20 years- they have won 2 championships with absolutely no centre option/size/rebounding.

Any team that Lebron joined after he left Cleveland would be called stacked, because he was taking such a chitty franchise so far.

[kennethgriffin]

10s weakest era? It will have Durant and Lebron in their absolute primes... both of these guys will end up above Kobe, Durant just needs a couple of championships as the man, his stats are going to be ridiculous over the next 10 years.

Lebrons Miami team if you actually look at the ages of players, how they played, there health (Wade)... Lebron has had no more help on this team than any other superstar other the last 20 years- they have won 2 championships with absolutely no centre option/size/rebounding.

Any team that Lebron joined after he left Cleveland would be called stacked, because he was taking such a chitty franchise so far.


i dont really know why people are so quick to assume lebron/durant will win anywhere near 4,5,6 titles


lebron took 10 years to get 1 off a lockout year where fluke injuries happened to every star

then lebron got one more with a lucky shot from a team mate


durants still at zero... both may never win again. you never really know.. its hard to win titles. its nearly impossible to be an all time legend player with a b*uttload of rings

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

96-98 Chicago was stacked. Nobody denies that :confusedshrug:

I'd also take Ray over Kukoc (harper wasn't exactly all that either).

[BoutPractice]

Ironically by certain people's definitions the Heat were probably the most "stacked" the year they lost, as they had a healthy Big 3 with Wade and Bosh playing closer to their pre-decision selves. They also lost against a less "stacked" team than the two they won against the next two years (Thunder had a Big 3, and Spurs had Mavs-like depth but with several star options as opposed to one)

[Bandito]

10s weakest era? It will have Durant and Lebron in their absolute primes... both of these guys will end up above Kobe, Durant just needs a couple of championships as the man, his stats are going to be ridiculous over the next 10 years.

Lebrons Miami team if you actually look at the ages of players, how they played, there health (Wade)... Lebron has had no more help on this team than any other superstar other the last 20 years- they have won 2 championships with absolutely no centre option/size/rebounding.

Any team that Lebron joined after he left Cleveland would be called stacked, because he was taking such a chitty franchise so far.
Aside from Lebran and Durant there isn't anyone else. Kobe's time had prime Dwade, Macgrady, Vince, AI, Duncan, Webber, Shaq among others in their absolute prime or still in great shape like Malone and the great Stock.

Lebron only has Durant as a transcendental player. Rose has been injured with Deron and ROndo so they don't count.

[JerryWest]

Lebron teamed up with a superstar and an allstar, did Jordan do that?

[TMT]

Threads that use < , >, =, to make a point are really something special. It's awesome how these little symbols take into account chemistry, team defense and all the intangibles in the game of basketball. Totally valid thread.

[Fire Colangelo]

please dont put kobes teams anywhere near the depth of miami/chicago


dont make me f*ck your day up

3rd best player on kobe/shaq era = derrick fisher ( top 400 all time? )

3rd best player on kobe/gasol era = lamar odom ( top 300 all time? 0 asg's )

3rd best player on miami = hall of famer chris bosh

3rd best player on bulls = hall of famer legend dennis rodman



4th best player on kobe/shaq era = rick fox? ( top 300 all time? )

4th best player on kobe/gasol era = derrick fisher ( top 400 all time? )

4th best player on miami = hall of famer ray allen

4th best player on chicago = tony kukoc ( 18ppg as bulls leader )



then theres michael beasley ( 19ppg as leader )

and ron harper = 22ppg as leader


while kobe has scrubs


lol if this is how you wanna go at it, i can play the same game.

3rd best player on kobe/shaq teams = Glen Rice (avg 26 as leader)


3rd best player on kobe/gasol teams = Odom (career avg 15/8/4)
4th best player on kobe/gasol teams = Bynum (2nd best center in the league in his prime)
5th best player on kobe/gasol teams = MWP (DoPY, capable of putting up 20/6/3 as leader)

idk man, did you guys also have Ariza who averaged 15/5/5 after leaving the lakers?

do you want me to do 12-13 lakers?
Nash - 2x MVP, HoF
Dwight - 3x DoPY, perennial all star/all nba, HoF
MWP - DoPY, capable of putting up 20/6/3 as leader
Jamison - 25/9/2 as leader

lol come on griff, i'm not saying those kobe/gasol led lakers are stacked but this isn't the way to go at it.

[kNicKz]

94 Rockets in 5

[kennethgriffin]

I'd take Ray over Kukoc (harper wasn't all that either).

96-98 Chicago was stacked. Nobody denies that :confusedshrug:


did this guy really just say he'd take

38 year old .... 9ppg/2ast/3reb 43%fg ray allen

over

6th man of the year prime 27 year old toni kukoc ( a guy who was one of the deadliest shooters all time himself. but could step in as leader right away and average 18/6/5 )


ron harper wasnt all that?

a year before joining chicago in 95 he averaged 19ppg

first 8 years in the league before chicago = 19ppg, 5reb,5ast


:facepalm

[livinglegend]

Lebron teamed up with a superstar and an allstar, did Jordan do that?

did he waste a good portion of his career with a 2nd option like Mo Williams?

[SilkkTheShocker]

Both are better than Kobe

[SilkkTheShocker]

Lebron teamed up with a superstar and an allstar, did Jordan do that?

Jordan's front office was able to surround him with great players. LeBron is Cleveland played with Eric Snow's corpse and Larry Hughes

[JerryWest]

Both are better than Kobe
I agree with this.

[JerryWest]

did he waste a good portion of his career with a 2nd option like Mo Williams?
Did Jordan leave his team? :confusedshrug:

[kennethgriffin]

lol if this is how you wanna go at it, i can play the same game.

3rd best player on kobe/shaq teams = Glen Rice (avg 26 as leader)


3rd best player on kobe/gasol teams = Odom (career avg 15/8/4)
4th best player on kobe/gasol teams = Bynum (2nd best center in the league in his prime)
5th best player on kobe/gasol teams = MWP (DoPY, capable of putting up 20/6/3 as leader)

idk man, did you guys also have Ariza who averaged 15/5/5 after leaving the lakers?

do you want me to do 12-13 lakers?
Nash - 2x MVP, HoF
Dwight - 3x DoPY, perennial all star/all nba, HoF
MWP - DoPY, capable of putting up 20/6/3 as leader
Jamison - 25/9/2 as leader

lol come on griff, i'm not saying those kobe/gasol led lakers are stacked but this isn't the way to go at it.

except bynum didnt play and wasnt even in the rotation during those 2 titles. he just played garbage minutes.. 6ppg?

i'm comparing guys who actually were reasons those teams won

rice was there for 1 ring i'l give you that


odom was good. but i go in terms of all time rankings

i didnt say kobe had nobody. i said those guys compared to the 2nd/3rd best players on miami /chicago made them look like nobodies

[fpliii]

:banana:

[kennethgriffin]

Both are better than Kobe

i know.. both teams are infinitely better than kobes.. thats my point

kobe brought an average team to 3 straight finals/2 straight titles

:lol

and kobe/shaqs lakers werent much 3-12 either


all time nba record playoffs 15-1 with samaki walker, brian shaw, isiah rider as their main rotation guys

[livinglegend]

Gasol s Lakers were more stacked. He had a top 15 player of all-time as his 2nd best player. James and Jordan didnt have that luxury.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

did this guy really just say he'd take

38 year old .... 9ppg/2ast/3reb 43%fg ray allen

over

6th man of the year prime 27 year old toni kukoc ( a guy who was one of the deadliest shooters all time himself. but could step in as leader right away and average 18/6/5 )

Problem? If I have a stacked team like Miami, Ray is more servicable to me than a Kukoc.

And what do Harper's numbers BEFORE joining Chicago have to do with his play IN Chicago :confusedshrug:

[JerryWest]

Jordan's front office was able to surround him with great players. LeBron is Cleveland played with Eric Snow's corpse and Larry Hughes
I'm going to only say this once.

Lebron can keep winning rings, every year till he retires. But will he be respected like Jordan? Like Larry Bird?

Nope.

He made a decision to team up and win the easy way, every ring he wins with this current team will be an asterisk until he can win a ring BY HIMSELF. No teaming up with a superstar and an all-star.

[Fire Colangelo]

Aside from Lebran and Durant there isn't anyone else. Kobe's time had prime Dwade, Macgrady, Vince, AI, Duncan, Webber, Shaq among others in their absolute prime or still in great shape like Malone and the great Stock.

Lebron only has Durant as a transcendental player. Rose has been injured with Deron and ROndo so they don't count.

2010's have LeBron, Durant, Carmelo, CP3, Kevin Love (i think he sucks, but his stats indicate otherwise) in their primes. Then you got rising stars in Blake Griffin, AD, Lillard, Harden, PG, Irving, MCW, Wall, DeRozan, Dragic, Curry, Cousins etc.

Then you got this years draft with Embiid, Wiggins, Parker, etc,

The previous era was more top heavy, this era is more balanced across. There isn't as many superstars, but there are still a lot more top players. The way your looking at this is totally wrong. 14 Pacers are a good team, they have a good chance against those champion Spurs teams as anybody in the league.

[JerryWest]

Gasol s Lakers were more stacked. He had a top 15 player of all-time as his 2nd best player. James and Jordan didnt have that luxury.
Did dwayne wade die? :biggums:

[livinglegend]

I'm going to only say this once.

Lebron can keep winning rings, every year till he retires. But will he be respected like Jordan? Like Larry Bird?

Nope.

He made a decision to team up and win the easy way, every ring he wins with this current team will be an asterisk until he can win a ring BY HIMSELF. No teaming up with a superstar and an all-star.

Keep repeating this to yourself. You will eventually start believing it. Dont give up.

[livinglegend]

Did dwayne wade die? :biggums:

As far as I know, he played last night.
Did anything happen this morning?

[kennethgriffin]

Gasol s Lakers were more stacked. He had a top 15 player of all-time as his 2nd best player. James and Jordan didnt have that luxury.



you dont honestly think you're funny do you? this was a better joke back before gasol wasnt 0-16 in the playoffs as leader and last place in the western confrence without his "sidekick"

i remember when gasol fmvp threads were the norm on this site. not so much anymore

the guy literally threw away a possible hall of fame career these last 4 seasons

[SilkkTheShocker]

I'm going to only say this once.

Lebron can keep winning rings, every year till he retires. But will he be respected like Jordan? Like Larry Bird?

Nope.

He made a decision to team up and win the easy way, every ring he wins with this current team will be an asterisk until he can win a ring BY HIMSELF. No teaming up with a superstar and an all-star.

Bird played on stacked teams almost his whole career. You can't expect players to realistically win titles with guys like Mo Williams as your sidekick.

[Fire Colangelo]

except bynum didnt play and wasnt even in the rotation during those 2 titles. he just played garbage minutes.. 6ppg?

i'm comparing guys who actually were reasons those teams won

rice was there for 1 ring i'l give you that


odom was good. but i go in terms of all time rankings

i didnt say kobe had nobody. i said those guys compared to the 2nd/3rd best players on miami /chicago made them look like nobodies

Why all time rankings? If Jordan and Kareem all of a sudden decided to come out of retirement and play for the Bobcats, does that make the Bobcats the most stacked team of all time with #1 and #2 on the same team?

I guess those Wizards Jordan teams failed miserably with the GOAT on the team.

2012-13 Lakers?

Bosh didn't do shit in game 7 last year, but hey I'm gonna look at this Raptors years where he averaged 24/10 to indicate how he played in game 7 of the finals.

I thought we're looking at all time rankings? So what if Bynum put up 6ppg in the playoffs? We're looking at all time rankings, that shouldn't matter.

What does Ray's all time ranking have to do with his performance in Miami (which was mediocre other than the game 6 3 pointer)?

2012-13 lakers?

who cares about injures, it's the all time rankings that matters.

do you realize how stupid this thread is lol

[livinglegend]

you dont honestly think you're funny do you? this was a better joke back before gasol wasnt 0-16 in the playoffs as leader and last place in the western confrence without his "sidekick"

i remember when gasol fmvp threads were the norm on this site. not so much anymore

the guy literally threw away a possible hall of fame career these last 4 seasons

His 0-16 with Grizzlies and his last 4 seasons have nothing to do with 2010 playoffs. He played better than Kobrick and deserved 2010 FMVP. # DEALWITHIT!

[livinglegend]

Why all time rankings? If Jordan and Kareem all of a sudden decided to come out of retirement and play for the Bobcats, does that make the Bobcats the most stacked team of all time with #1 and #2 on the same team?

I guess those Wizards Jordan teams failed miserably with the GOAT on the team.

2012-13 Lakers?

Bosh didn't do shit in game 7 last year, but hey I'm gonna look at this Raptors years where he averaged 24/10 to indicate how he played in game 7 of the finals.

I thought we're looking at all time rankings? So what if Bynum put up 6ppg in the playoffs? We're looking at all time rankings, that shouldn't matter.

What does Ray's all time ranking have to do with his performance in Miami (which was mediocre other than the game 6 3 pointer)?

2012-13 lakers?

who cares about injures, it's the all time rankings that matters.

do you realize how stupid this thread is lol

:applause:
Stupid members use past reputations to label Heat most stacked. Oden #1 pick (people though he retired) , Beasley #2 ( nobody wanted him) , Allen best 3 pt shooter of all time ( shooting like 35 % this season)...

[Quickening]

Bird played on stacked teams almost his whole career. You can't expect players to realistically win titles with guys like Mo Williams as your sidekick.

Its hilarious when people mention Lebron leaving as some kind of horrible thing, Lebrons poor performances in the 11 finals, sure... that is a black mark on his legacy. However winning the next 2 years, he has redeemed himself. Lots of top 10 players have black marks on their legacy, its a queston of does their triumps outweigh them that matters.

What was he suppose to do, stay in a chitty franchise his whole career? A franchise that is gifted a top 5 talent ever, and can't surround it with a semi decent cast... even Garnett left to win a ring after he had banked enough money.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

did this guy really just say he'd take

38 year old .... 9ppg/2ast/3reb 43%fg ray allen

over

6th man of the year prime 27 year old toni kukoc ( a guy who was one of the deadliest shooters all time himself. but could step in as leader right away and average 18/6/5 )


ron harper wasnt all that?

a year before joining chicago in 95 he averaged 19ppg

first 8 years in the league before chicago = 19ppg, 5reb,5ast


:facepalm
Jordaneers man. they are THE most delusional fanbase in sports history.
they think hes by far the GOAT and then write shit like they would take 38 year old Ray over the beast that Kukoc was:roll: :roll: :roll:
or that Harper wasnt a real good player:biggums: :biggums: :coleman:

[Marlo_Stanfield]

i agree with OP doe, LeBron> Jordan:applause: :applause: :rockon:

[Quickening]

i dont really know why people are so quick to assume lebron/durant will win anywhere near 4,5,6 titles


lebron took 10 years to get 1 off a lockout year where fluke injuries happened to every star

then lebron got one more with a lucky shot from a team mate


durants still at zero... both may never win again. you never really know.. its hard to win titles. its nearly impossible to be an all time legend player with a b*uttload of rings

Lebron left a chitty franchise, and in his first 3 years on another has won 2 rings and got to 3 finals. Heat are favourites to make it three championships in a row, 3 rings as the man in a row... how many players have done that?

[Fire Colangelo]

Its hilarious when people mention Lebron leaving as some kind of horrible thing, Lebrons poor performances in the 11 finals, sure... that is a black mark on his legacy. However winning the next 2 years, he has redeemed himself. Lots of top 10 players have black marks on their legacy, its a queston of does their triumps outweigh them that matters.

What was he suppose to do, stay in a chitty franchise his whole career? A franchise that is gifted a top 5 talent ever, and can't surround it with a semi decent cast... even Garnett left to win a ring after he had banked enough money.

He didn't want to leave, he was traded.

Nobody thinks LeBron leaving Cleveland is a terrible thing, I'm pretty sure given the chance we'd all bolt from Cleveland to Miami. It's the way he did it, he told basically gave Cavs fans high hope that he'd resign in Cleveland and eventually win them a ring, and then backstabbed them on live television during the off season to go to Miami. You don't do that, not on live television.

You know why most Raptors fans don't hate Bosh for leaving Toronto? Because we're reasonable and rational, but more importantly, because Bosh didn't diss the city of Toronto in national television.

Nobody blames LeBron for leaving, it's the way he left, and the ignorance and arrogance he's been showing after he left that brings people against him.

"I mean, when the game starts, it's going to be easy."
"Not 1, not 2, not 3..... "
Mocking Dirk, then getting his ass kicked in 11 finals.

He was the laughing stock of the league in 2011. He redeemed himself in 2012 and 2013 by winning 2 straight, but that doesn't erase his shitty ring chasing image.

[StrongLurk]

1 through 5 the bulls were better

Jordan > lebron
Pippen > wade
Rodman > Bosh
prime kukoc > old ray allen
Harper > chalmers



maybe the rest are a bit closer or on miamis side. but this is clear cut.. bulls were better


then theres the era argument



so if jordan can be goat and get full credit for 6 rings. during an era with no other legit threat... then why cant lebron?

the 2000's had 4 of the top 10 players all time during mvp seasons/start or end of prime

- kobe
- shaq
- duncan
- lebron

no other era has anything close..

the 60's had 2

- russell
- wilt

the 80's had 2

- magic
- bird

the 70's had 1

- kareem

the 90's had 1

- jordan


so the weakest era's are obviously 70's,90's,10's


so if the 2 biggest goat candidates ( jordan and kareem ) played their best basketball during the 2 weakest eras. then why cant lebron become the 3rd goat candidate while playing in just as equally bad an era

What makes you think 96-98 Jordan is better than current Lebron?

[Quickening]

He didn't want to leave, he was traded.

Nobody thinks LeBron leaving Cleveland is a terrible thing, I'm pretty sure given the chance we'd all bolt from Cleveland to Miami. It's the way he did it, he told basically gave Cavs fans high hope that he'd resign in Cleveland and eventually win them a ring, and then backstabbed them on live television during the off season to go to Miami. You don't do that, not on live television.

You know why most Raptors fans don't hate Bosh for leaving Toronto? Because we're reasonable and rational, but more importantly, because Bosh didn't diss the city of Toronto in national television.

Nobody blames LeBron for leaving, it's the way he left, and the ignorance and arrogance he's been showing after he left that brings people against him.

"I mean, when the game starts, it's going to be easy."
"Not 1, not 2, not 3..... "
Mocking Dirk, then getting his ass kicked in 11 finals.

He was the laughing stock of the league in 2011. He redeemed himself in 2012 and 2013 by winning 2 straight, but that doesn't erase his shitty ring chasing image.

So you said the reason you hate him is because he took the piss out of Cleveland, but everyone would do the same with regards to leaving that franchise, and you still love Chris Bosh.

You then label Lebron a ring chaser :biggums:

Makes sense, so are you ok with Lebron/Bosh leaving to win championships or not?... yes he could have handled the decision better, but on the flip side, it raised millions for kids, so a few upset basketball fans, I can live with.

I personally would have questioned Lebrons ambition/mentality/betaness whatever you want to call it, if he would have let himself rot in Cleveland for the whole of his 20s.

There is nothing wrong with ring chasing, wanting to win/be successful when you're the best player. Kobe threatened to leave the Lakers if they didn't bring help in for him... its what superstars/players when they're winners, and have the opportunity.

[ArbitraryWater]

Pathetic thread. Just everything about it.

[kamil]

It's because were in a weak era of the NBA, but everything is relative anyway, so the Miami cHeat is still stacked through collusion.

[Fire Colangelo]

So you said the reason you hate him is because he took the piss out of Cleveland, but everyone would do the same with regards to leaving that franchise, and you still love Chris Bosh.

You then label Lebron a ring chaser :biggums:

Makes sense, so are you ok with Lebron/Bosh leaving to win championships or not?... yes he could have handled the decision better, but on the flip side, it raised millions for kids, so a few upset basketball fans, I can live with.

I personally would have questioned Lebrons ambition/mentality/betaness whatever you want to call it, if he would have let himself rot in Cleveland for the whole of his 20s.

There is nothing wrong with ring chasing, wanting to win/be successful when you're the best player. Kobe threatened to leave the Lakers if they didn't bring help in for him... its what superstars/players when they're winners, and have the opportunity.

I don't hate LeBron, I don't love Bosh (I want him to succeed, but I don't love him lol).

I don't blame/hate anyone for leaving in FA. The whole point of FA is to place yourself into a better position financially, or a better position to win.

Like I said, it's the way he left that most people have problems with. You brought up a point that he raised millions for the kids with "The Decision", yes, but he could've also ejaculated in a bottle and sold it to TonyMontana for a million dollars and donated it to children.

Point is, he's LeBron James, there are A LOT of things he can do to raise money for children, it does not hide the fact he stuck a big fat middle finger to the entire city of Cleveland. It also does not hide the fact he was a arrogant d*** in his first year with the Heat.

I like LeBron though, I think he's handled himself well these past 2 years and redeemed himself with back-to-back champion ships.

[aboss4real24]

last i checked wen u play sports ur supposed to chase championships

[dude77]

I'm going to only say this once.

Lebron can keep winning rings, every year till he retires. But will he be respected like Jordan? Like Larry Bird?

Nope.

He made a decision to team up and win the easy way, every ring he wins with this current team will be an asterisk until he can win a ring BY HIMSELF. No teaming up with a superstar and an all-star.

lol this is just dumb .. and it just shows how some will hate just to hate ..

no one can win 'by themselves' .. and lebron already proved his greatness by taking that scrub cleveland team to the finals

[Yao Ming's Foot]

lol this is just dumb .. and it just shows how some will hate just to hate ..

no one can win 'by themselves' .. and lebron already proved his greatness by taking that scrub cleveland team to the finals

Yeah no other player in the league would have been able to beat two teams without a winning record, one good team and then get swept in the Finals while surrounded by a top 5 defense. :oldlol:

[Fire Colangelo]

last i checked wen u play sports ur supposed to chase championships

last i checked wen u don't announce your ringchasing plans on national television while sticking a middle finger in ur previous team's face.

last i checked you don't say "its gun b easy" "not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4" before the season starts and then choke in the finals.

last i checked you don't make fun of the superstar of the opposing team and then proceed to get raped on the court.

:confusedshrug:

c'mon, i like bron but you guys are making it too easy to dislike him lol

[livinglegend]

last i checked wen u don't announce your ringchasing plans on national television while sticking a middle finger in ur previous team's face.

last i checked you don't say "its gun b easy" "not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4" before the season starts and then choke in the finals.

last i checked you don't make fun of the superstar of the opposing team and then proceed to get raped on the court.

:confusedshrug:

c'mon, i like bron but you guys are making it too easy to dislike him lol

where did you find all those rules?
Link?

[dude77]

Yeah no other player in the league would have been able to beat two teams without a winning record, one good team and then get swept in the Finals while surrounded by a top 5 defense. :oldlol:

take lebron off that team and lets see how far they go .. enough said

[StrongLurk]

If you took Lebron off the Heat and inserted all these haters favorite player on the Heat, they wouldn't be saying a damn thing.

[Fire Colangelo]

where did you find all those rules?
Link?

idk man, common sense in life.... maybe?

Kind of like... when you switch a job you don't go back to your old employer and tell him to **** off. Unless he was a bitch to you, in this case Cleveland loved LeBron.

[aboss4real24]

last i checked wen u don't announce your ringchasing plans on national television while sticking a middle finger in ur previous team's face.

last i checked you don't say "its gun b easy" "not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4" before the season starts and then choke in the finals.

last i checked you don't make fun of the superstar of the opposing team and then proceed to get raped on the court.

:confusedshrug:

c'mon, i like bron but you guys are making it too easy to dislike him lol

he made his decision on tv to raise money 4 kids in need

Which he did (Raised up to 2million)

he never sed it was gone be easy...even if he did he has 2 rings on his way 3
Y Wont sum1 stop him then?

He never made fun of dirk jus cleary stated how da hell can u get a cold in 80 degree weather.... which is a fair and obv question ..

and last i checked Dirk shot a career postseason Low 41% in the finals that year .. who was he raping ?

He was bailed out by terry..

[livinglegend]

idk man, common sense in life.... maybe?

Kind of like... when you switch a job you don't go back to your old employer and tell him to **** off. Unless he was a bitch to you, in this case Cleveland loved LeBron.

you can keep your common sense to yourself.

[Fire Colangelo]

he made his decision on tv to raise money 4 kids in need

Which he did (Raised up to 2million)

he never sed it was gone be easy...even if he did he has 2 rings on his way 3
Y Wont sum1 stop him then?

He never made fun of dirk jus cleary stated how da hell can u get a cold in 80 degree weather.... which is a fair and obv question ..

and last i checked Dirk shot a career postseason Low 41% in the finals that year .. who was he raping ?

He was bailed out by terry..

He could've held a basketball camp, he could've held anything and it would've raised 2 million for the kids.

He did say it was gonna be easy, then he choked in his first year.

He did make fun of dirk, in front of the camera btw making those fake coughing gestures. Idk if they were joking, that's arrogance right there. And then he choked.

Dirk shot a career low 41%, and still raped them in the finals. 4th quarter points? LeBron 11, Dirk 52.

I hope you're not trying to suggest Terry was the FMVP of that series because... lol

[Quickening]

last i checked wen u don't announce your ringchasing plans on national television while sticking a middle finger in ur previous team's face.

last i checked you don't say "its gun b easy" "not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4" before the season starts and then choke in the finals.

last i checked you don't make fun of the superstar of the opposing team and then proceed to get raped on the court.

:confusedshrug:

c'mon, i like bron but you guys are making it too easy to dislike him lol

Lebron is laid back, fun guy to be around whilst at the same time being a gym rat, and dedicated to improving himself and winning... that what makes him unique and different from a lot of great players.

Did you hate him for dancing on the court as well? Is it so bad to joke around with Miami fans saying they will win a lot of championships.

Is it not ok to have a sense of humour?

[Fire Colangelo]

Lebron is laid back, fun guy to be around whilst at the same time being a gym rat, and dedicated to improving himself and winning... that what makes him unique and different from a lot of great players.

Did you hate him for dancing on the court as well? Is it so bad to joke around with Miami fans saying they will win a lot of championships.

Is it not ok to have a sense of humour?

I don't hate him lol, I root for the guy to succeed. All I'm saying is he was immature in his earlier years.

Joking around saying they will win a lot of championships? Is that his excuse now? You don't joke about stuff like that. Is that what he did to Cavs fans? He joked about getting them a championship too?

That's some sick sense of humour I'd rather not have.

I'm sure Bron is really chill, I have no doubt about that. His teammates love him, and people around the league seem to love him. But I'm just pointing out he was immature and arrogant in his earlier years with the Heat, and he should've done things differently.

[SHABBA]

Threads that use < , >, =, to make a point are really something special. It's awesome how these little symbols take into account chemistry, team defense and all the intangibles in the game of basketball. Totally valid thread.
:lol

[Quickening]

I don't hate him lol, I root for the guy to succeed. All I'm saying is he was immature in his earlier years.

Joking around saying they will win a lot of championships? Is that his excuse now? You don't joke about stuff like that. Is that what he did to Cavs fans? He joked about getting them a championship too?

That's some sick sense of humour I'd rather not have.

I'm sure Bron is really chill, I have no doubt about that. His teammates love him, and people around the league seem to love him. But I'm just pointing out he was immature and arrogant in his earlier years with the Heat, and he should've done things differently.

Saying to Miami fans they will win some championships, is Lebron being sick? You're reaching... when I started my company, I said to my employees in jest, we will all be millionaires one days, am I sick in the head? :biggums:

[aboss4real24]

Cavs idea of gettin Lebron help was Mo williams, 60 yr old shaq ,n a washed up antwan jamison

Heat idea of help was wade n bosh

Easy choice to make

[Fire Colangelo]

Cavs idea of gettin Lebron help was Mo williams, 60 yr old shaq ,n a washed up antwan jamison

Heat idea of help was wade n bosh

Easy choice to make

Nobody blames him for going to Miami, it's the way he did it.

And it's his arrogant demeanour after going to Miami that people don't like about him.

[edrick]

Nobody blames him for going to Miami, it's the way he did it.

And it's his arrogant demeanour after going to Miami that people don't like about him.

:biggums: Yeah, Jordan and Kobe don't have huge egos, not to mention, every other star does as well.

[Fire Colangelo]

:biggums: Yeah, Jordan and Kobe don't have huge egos, not to mention, every other star does as well.

Hence there are people that dislike Jordan and Kobe, and other stars for whatever dumbshit they've done :confusedshrug:

[TheCorporation]

lol if this is how you wanna go at it, i can play the same game.

3rd best player on kobe/shaq teams = Glen Rice (avg 26 as leader)


3rd best player on kobe/gasol teams = Odom (career avg 15/8/4)
4th best player on kobe/gasol teams = Bynum (2nd best center in the league in his prime)
5th best player on kobe/gasol teams = MWP (DoPY, capable of putting up 20/6/3 as leader)

idk man, did you guys also have Ariza who averaged 15/5/5 after leaving the lakers?

do you want me to do 12-13 lakers?
Nash - 2x MVP, HoF
Dwight - 3x DoPY, perennial all star/all nba, HoF
MWP - DoPY, capable of putting up 20/6/3 as leader
Jamison - 25/9/2 as leader

lol come on griff, i'm not saying those kobe/gasol led lakers are stacked but this isn't the way to go at it.

Dat ether :lol

[edrick]

Hence there are people that dislike Jordan and Kobe, and other stars for whatever dumbshit they've done :confusedshrug:

My point was, that if you like any star player, than you like a an ego maniac. Lebron is not an exception.

[Y2ktors]

Nobody blames him for going to Miami, it's the way he did it.

And it's his arrogant demeanour after going to Miami that people don't like about him.
:applause:

[Fire Colangelo]

My point was, that if you like any star player, than you like a an ego maniac. Lebron is not an exception.

Ummmmm... I'm not really a stan so :confusedshrug:

and I wouldn't really call LeBron egoistic tbh.

[SamuraiSWISH]

'96 - '98 Fadeaway Jordan, and Bulls

v.s.

'11 - Current Prime LeBron, and Heat

Jordan < LeBron
Pippen < Wade
Rodman > Haslem
Longley < Bosh
Harper < Allen

Bulls Bench > Heat Bench

'96 - '98 Fadeaway Jordan, and Bulls

v.s.

'08 - '10 Kobe, and Lakers

Jordan = Kobe
Pippen < Gasol
Rodman > Artest
Kukoc < Odom
Longley < Bynum

Bulls Bench > Lakers Bench

[Fire Colangelo]

'96 - '98 Fadeaway Jordan, and Bulls

v.s.

'11 - Current Prime LeBron, and Heat

Jordan < LeBron
Pippen < Wade
Rodman > Haslem
Longley < Bosh
Harper < Allen

Bulls Bench > Heat Bench

'96 - '98 Fadeaway Jordan, and Bulls

v.s.

'08 - '10 Kobe, and Lakers

Jordan = Kobe
Pippen < Gasol
Rodman > Artest
Kukoc < Odom
Longley < Bynum

Bulls Bench > Lakers Bench

Actually, Pippen > Wade (2011 is a debate, 2012 onwards reallly isn't), and Pippen > Gasol.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Actually, Pippen > Wade (2011 is a debate, 2012 onwards reallly isn't), and Pippen > Gasol.
No, not at all. 1st three peat Pippen greater than, or equal to Wade / Gasol.

Have you seen 2nd three peat Pippen's offensive numbers? Sure he was dominant defensively, Wade and Gasol were no slouch on that end either. But offensively? He was putting up 17 ppg on like 41% shooting for that entire second three peat.

2011 Wade > '96, '97, or '98 Pippen
2012 Wade = '96 Pippen
2012 Wade > '97, and '98 Pippen
'96, '97, and '98 Pippen > 2013 Wade
2011 Wade > '08, '09, and '10 Gasol
2012 Wade > '08 Gasol
'09, and '10 Gasol > 2012 Wade
'08, '09, and '10 Gasol > 2013 Wade

[pauk]

Kenneth supporting Lebron? :biggums:

[MichaelCorleone]

Kenneth confusing all his agendas.

So you wanna make Lebron's case or MJ's?:oldlol:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Sure he was dominant defensively, Wade and Gasol were no slouch on that end either.

:biggums:

[97 bulls]

'96 - '98 Fadeaway Jordan, and Bulls

v.s.

'11 - Current Prime LeBron, and Heat

Jordan < LeBron
Pippen < Wade
Rodman > Haslem
Longley < Bosh
Harper < Allen

Bulls Bench > Heat Bench

'96 - '98 Fadeaway Jordan, and Bulls

v.s.

'08 - '10 Kobe, and Lakers

Jordan = Kobe
Pippen < Gasol
Rodman > Artest
Kukoc < Odom
Longley < Bynum

Bulls Bench > Lakers Bench
If the Heat are better than the Bulls by position as you put it, why havnt they won at a rate that was similar? Why didnt the Lakers win as many titles?

[TheNaturalWR]

lol @ Pippen > 2011 Wade. 2011 Wade was basically another LeBron.

[Fire Colangelo]

No, not at all. 1st three peat Pippen greater than, or equal to Wade / Gasol.

Have you seen 2nd three peat Pippen's offensive numbers? Sure he was dominant defensively, Wade and Gasol were no slouch on that end either. But offensively? He was putting up 17 ppg on like 41% shooting for that entire second three peat.

2011 Wade > '96, '97, or '98 Pippen
2012 Wade = '96 Pippen
2012 Wade > '97, and '98 Pippen
'96, '97, and '98 Pippen > 2013 Wade
2011 Wade > '08, '09, and '10 Gasol
2012 Wade > '08 Gasol
'09, and '10 Gasol > 2012 Wade
'08, '09, and '10 Gasol > 2013 Wade

Actually Pippen was putting up around 19/6/6 on 46% in the regular season, post season is when he went down to around 17/6/5 on sub 40%. Despite his shooting numbers, he was still elite defensively. Lets not forget Pippen was all nba 1st team in 96, 2nd team in 97 and 3rd team in 98.

2011 Wade is the best player of the bunch, but 96-98 Pippen's defensive > 2012 Wade's offense. 2013 Wade declined too much.

Gasol is harder to compare lol, he's not as good as Wade or Pippen I dont think, but his impact on those laker teams were huge.



lol @ Pippen > 2011 Wade. 2011 Wade was basically another LeBron.

It's debatable. Pippen was elite in 96. Still had a case for best SF over Grant Hill who was averaging 20/10/7.

[hitmanyr2k]

The mileage started taking its toll on Pippen in the '96 season and from then on he was often playing injured much like Wade last year. Pippen was playing some of his best basketball ever in '96 but his body broke down in February and his numbers dipped severely in March and April. He wasn't healthy for the entire playoff run with an assortment of injuries. In '97 he had a pretty good run until late in the ECF against Miami where he injured his foot early in Game 5 and had to play on one leg in the Finals (still played damn good) which lead to surgery before the '98 season. The '98 playoffs is where he was at his best defensively. Even in games where he scored low his defensive impact was so huge (mainly against the Hornets, Pacers and Jazz) that it couldn't be ignored. Against the Jazz he scored only 10 points in Game 3 but there were still articles after that game suggesting he should be Finals MVP lol.

[Smoke117]

No, not at all. 1st three peat Pippen greater than, or equal to Wade / Gasol.

Have you seen 2nd three peat Pippen's offensive numbers? Sure he was dominant defensively, Wade and Gasol were no slouch on that end either. But offensively? He was putting up 17 ppg on like 41% shooting for that entire second three peat.

2011 Wade > '96, '97, or '98 Pippen
2012 Wade = '96 Pippen
2012 Wade > '97, and '98 Pippen
'96, '97, and '98 Pippen > 2013 Wade
2011 Wade > '08, '09, and '10 Gasol
2012 Wade > '08 Gasol
'09, and '10 Gasol > 2012 Wade
'08, '09, and '10 Gasol > 2013 Wade

You're an Jordan stan and an idiot who pretends he's this big bulls fan. Pippen was completely dominating the league in the 95-96 before multiple injuries caught up to him later in the season and especially in the post season. He was dealing with a severe ankle sprain, wrist sprain, and a knee problem during the entire 96 playoffs. It completely limited his ability to attack the basket and made him a jumpshooter vs the Sonics...YET he still led the entire playoffs in defensive rating and defensive win shares being as hurt as he was. His offensive numbers mean nothing when he basically was the most dominant defensive player during the entire playoffs of any player big or small in the 96 playoffs.

He played through the 97 ecf and finals with an foot injury that would cause him to miss the first half of the 98 season after surgery. Before Pippen went down in the 98 finals in game 5 taking a Karl Malone charge he was considered to be the the FMVP through the four games when the Bulls were up 3-1. Pippen would have been the FMVP in 98 if not for his willingness to take a monster like Malone charge that ****ed up his back.

[SamuraiSWISH]

The mileage started taking its toll on Pippen in the '96 season and from then on he was often playing injured much like Wade last year. Pippen was playing some of his best basketball ever in '96 but his body broke down in February and his numbers dipped severely in March and April.
'94 - Jan. '96 is the best ball he ever played. I agree. But in the playoffs, offensively he was quite terrible.

'96 playoffs 17 ppg on 39%
'97 playoffs 19 ppg on 42%
'98 playoffs 18 ppg on 42%

Still dominant defensively, but his scoring production is quite atrocious. Wade when healthy is clearly the superior scorer. Probably Gasol as well.


He wasn't healthy for the entire playoff run with an assortment of injuries. In '97 he had a pretty good run until late in the ECF against Miami where he injured his foot early in Game 5 and had to play on one leg in the Finals (still played damn good) which lead to surgery before the '98 season. The '98 playoffs is where he was at his best defensively. Even in games where he scored low his defensive impact was so huge (mainly against the Hornets, Pacers and Jazz) that it couldn't be ignored. Against the Jazz he scored only 10 points in Game 3 but there were still articles after that game suggesting he should be Finals MVP lol.
Don't forget the absolute crippling back injury in game 3 v.s. Washington in the 1997 playoffs. Which really affected his entire career going forward, eventuall resurfacing in the '98 Finals.

[97 bulls]

The mileage started taking its toll on Pippen in the '96 season and from then on he was often playing injured much like Wade last year. Pippen was playing some of his best basketball ever in '96 but his body broke down in February and his numbers dipped severely in March and April. He wasn't healthy for the entire playoff run with an assortment of injuries. In '97 he had a pretty good run until late in the ECF against Miami where he injured his foot early in Game 5 and had to play on one leg in the Finals (still played damn good) which lead to surgery before the '98 season. The '98 playoffs is where he was at his best defensively. Even in games where he scored low his defensive impact was so huge (mainly against the Hornets, Pacers and Jazz) that it couldn't be ignored. Against the Jazz he scored only 10 points in Game 3 but there were still articles after that game suggesting he should be Finals MVP lol.
I've been preaching this for the longest. Pippen never really had an offseason where he could rest and recoup like most players. After 96. He played in the Olympics. After 97 he rehabbed that bad back.

If he's healthy, he just as good as normal.