dirks championship run = goat

[mehyaM24]

outscored lebron (future goat) 52-11 in 4th quarter

beat Kobe Bryant, Kevin Durant, Lebron James, Dwyane Wade, Brandon Roy, Chris Bosh, Lemarcus Aldridge, Pau Gasol

ended the Phil Jackson era in a sweep

11 dirk's championship >>>> duncan's entire career, anything KG has done, better than barkley's entire career.

:bowdown:

[navy]

Better than Duncan's entire career? Duncan has 4 rings. Sit down.

[Quickening]

Wade had better stats in the finals... Lebron beat himself.

[Fire Colangelo]

His finals aren't anything to gloat about, but his entire playoff run was great.

People, including myself tend to overrate Dirk's 11 finals because of the fact he beat LeBron. But truth is he averaged 26 on 41%.

Dirk was GREAT in 4th quarters though.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Wade had better stats in the finals... Lebron beat himself.

This is the right answer. Dirk had a good playoffs run, great even, but his Finals performance is very overrated.

[moe94]

Turning around a franchise and winning it all with arguably the GOAT defense > 2011 Dirk

[BoutPractice]

His finals aren't anything to gloat about, but his entire playoff run was great.

People, including myself tend to overrate Dirk's 11 finals because of the fact he beat LeBron. But truth is he averaged 26 on 41%.

Dirk was GREAT in 4th quarters though.
And had 2 game winners. 26 ppg 2 game winners and FMVP, that's a great Finals, regardless of shooting percentage.

That said... this is just disrespectful to Duncan.

[ArbitraryWater]

His clutchness in the 4Q of the Finals made up for the lackluster play through the first 3 Q's... god forbid, his teammates kept him in somewhat of a close game!

In the 4th, Dirk closed out all 4 wins with 8-10 points in every 4th quarter.

Not THE Goat Run, but TOP 10.

[MrC1991]

Dirks run was remarkable but come on man better than anything Duncan or LeBron has ever done? LOL

[Cone]

definitely the goat playoff run.

completely carried that squad. never seen someone carry a team with such mediocre teammates :bowdown:

he torched my thunder, and im not even ashamed to admit it.

by the way, in the finals, he played thru a sickness and finger injury. good gawd

[ArbitraryWater]

And had 2 game winners. 26 ppg 2 game winners and FMVP, that's a great Finals, regardless of shooting percentage.

That said... this is just disrespectful to Duncan.

Sadly only one OFFICIAL Game Winner.

The clutch shot in G4 was with already up 1... so more like a game sealer.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Did LeBron have a bad game the whole 2012 postseason?

[SCdac]

In response to the clear hyperbole, the teams the Mavs went up against have gotten massively overrated because of big names.

Take the Thunder for instance, average age of that team is like 22 years old lol... they were kids playing against hungry veterans...

Lakers were in a funk that season, look at Pau Gasol's numbers before running into the Mavs (41.8 FG% against the Hornets)...

Heat team were the worse than '12 and '13, when they added Battier, Allen, Andersen, etc, went on that amazing win steak, and Lebron was still prone to a good punking at the time (he's admitted that series helped him grow, he worked on his game in the summers following).

Dirk was excellent, but keep in mind he didn't lead his team in rebounds, blocks, assists, steals, or three's made..... In other words, he had a fair amount of help.

... inb4 DMAVS wall of text ...

[ArbitraryWater]

Did LeBron have a bad games the whole 2012 postseason?

Nope. Thats the amazing thing. Both ESPN Lists ranked it as 2ND GREATEST PLAYOFF RUN. Of course ISH went crazy mad about that :lol But dude didn't have ONE poor game.

13 30+ Point Games in 23 Games.

[Megabox!]

Did LeBron have a bad games the whole 2012 postseason?
No I don't think so. Dude was in the zone that entire postseason and the finals, nobody was stopping him

[Cone]

In response to the clear hyperbole, the teams the Mavs went up against have gotten massively overrated because of big names.

Take the Thunder for instance, average age of that team is like 22 years old lol... they were kids playing against hungry veterans...

Lakers were in a funk that season, look at Pau Gasol's numbers before running into the Mavs (41.8 FG% against the Hornets)...

Heat team were the worse than '12 and '13, when they added Battier, Allen, Andersen, etc, went on that amazing win steak, and Lebron was still prone to a good punking at the time (he's admitted that series helped him grow, he worked on his game in the summers following).

Dirk was excellent, but keep in mind he didn't lead his team in rebounds, blocks, assists, steals, or three's made..... In other words, he had a fair amount of help.

... inb4 DMAVS wall of text ...

im an okc fan, and i dont buy into the age factor.. thats just complete bull.

are you serious? all the heat teams w/ Bron >>>>> 2011 mavs. 2010-2011 heat were very good, just because they lost in the finals, dont forget their epic performances throughtout that playoffs... wade was a top 3 player along with bron at the time

i aint even a dirk fan but u sound so salty. he carried that squad straight up

[ArbitraryWater]

In response to the clear hyperbole, the teams the Mavs went up against have gotten massively overrated because of big names.

Take the Thunder for instance, average age of that team is like 22 years old lol... they were kids playing against hungry veterans...

Lakers were in a funk that season, look at Pau Gasol's numbers before running into the Mavs (41.8 FG% against the Hornets)...

Heat team were the worse than '12 and '13, when they added Battier, Allen, Andersen, etc, went on that amazing win steak, and Lebron was still prone to a good punking at the time (he's admitted that series helped him grow, he worked on his game in the summers following).

Dirk was excellent, but keep in mind he didn't lead his team in rebounds, blocks, assists, steals, or three's made..... In other words, he had a fair amount of help.

... inb4 DMAVS wall of text ...

Wow, I cant even adress all the falsehood in this post.

And LeBron was "prone" to "a good punking at the time" hell does that mean? :biggums:

When did he ever choke before?
2009? What more ya want him to do?
2008? Loosing in 7 to the Celtics with 45 in G7?
2007? Riiight. Finals with 2nd Option Larry Hughes :roll:
Your only shot is 2010.

He had some shit series, sure. But for the most part dude was rock solid in the playoffs.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Nope. Thats the amazing thing. Both ESPN Lists ranked it as 2ND GREATEST PLAYOFF RUN. Of course ISH went crazy mad about that :lol But dude didn't have ONE poor game.

13 30+ Point Games in 23 Games.

I still think it gets underrated. The guy was a machine in those playoffs. That team went through a lot of adversity. People though Indiana had them beat once Bosh went out. Counted them out when Boston went 3-2 over them. And were shoveling dirt on him when Hick City took game one of the Finals against them.

[SCdac]

im an okc fan, and i dont buy into the age factor.. thats just complete bull.

are you serious? all the heat teams w/ Bron >>>>> 2011 mavs.

i aint even a dirk fan but u sound so salty. he carried that squad straight up

You're just buying into whats sensational... The Mavs 11 were an excellent team.

The Heat had these players on their roster:

Zydruans Ilguaskas (retired),
Dampier (retired),
Arroyo (retired),
Howard (retired),
Magloire (retired),
House (retired),
Stackhouse (retired)

[SilkkTheShocker]

im an okc fan, and i dont buy into the age factor.. thats just complete bull.

are you serious? all the heat teams w/ Bron >>>>> 2011 mavs. 2010-2011 heat were very good, just because they lost in the finals, dont forget their epic performances throughtout that playoffs... wade was a top 3 player along with bron at the time

i aint even a dirk fan but u sound so salty. he carried that squad straight up

He didn't carry them. They weren't stacked by any means, but they got a ton of production from Kidd, Terry, Chandler, etc. A lot of people thought Terry had a good chance of winning Finals MVP.

[memetherapy]

Dirk had a good finals...I mean, they won with him as the main piece. But he straight up raped every western conference team that post-season on the way to the finals... I remember watching in awe as he carried his team on the offensive end.

[Cone]

Dirk had a good finals...I mean, they won with him as the main piece. But he straight up raped every western conference team that post-season on the way to the finals... I remember watching in awe as he carried his team on the offensive end.

i remember when we were up 15 with 6 minutes left in game 4 against the mavs. it would have been 2-2, and i believed we were gonna win that series, and go to the finals..

but then the man went ham.. scored like 15 points in the last 3-4 minutes, and was hitting incredibly tough shots.

if it was another player i would have hated him, but the guy deserves all the credit in the world. he should have more rings, but he never played with another hall of famer in his prime, like every single other all time great

[SilkkTheShocker]

You're just buying into whats sensational... The Mavs 11 were an excellent team.

The Heat had these players on their roster:

Zydruans Ilguaskas (retired),
Dampier (retired),
Arroyo (retired),
Howard (retired),
Magloire (retired),
House (retired),
Stackhouse (retired)

According to this board, the 2011 Heat were the best of the Big 3 Era. Even though they had no bench at all, injured Mike Miller/Haslem, and were starting Mike Bibby, who had one of the worst playoff series ever. LeBron stunk up the joint in the Finals. But that Heat team was 3 deep.They still should have won the series, but they were a very flawed team.

[SCdac]

And LeBron was "prone" to "a good punking at the time" hell does that mean? :biggums:

What do you think it means?

He was weak mentally. It takes time to become a tough player.... just look at Dirk :confusedshrug:

[SCdac]

Has a team as young as the 2011 Thunder ever won a championship?

(serious question)

Durant - 22
Russ - 22
Harden - 21
Ibaka - 21

etc.

[Cone]

You're just buying into whats sensational... The Mavs 11 were an excellent team.

The Heat had these players on their roster:

Zydruans Ilguaskas (retired),
Dampier (retired),
Arroyo (retired),
Howard (retired),
Magloire (retired),
House (retired),
Stackhouse (retired)

No doubt the mavs were a really good team. but there was a reason they were underdogs in every series. nobody had them winning it all.

the heat were playing at an amazingly high level before the finals, and were the heavy favorites... they looked unstoppable

[SCdac]

No doubt the mavs were a really good team. but there was a reason they were underdogs in every series. nobody had them winning it all.

the heat were playing at an amazingly high level before the finals, and were the heavy favorites... they looked unstoppable

Yeah... the reason is they've been disappointments for over 10 years.

Nobody was going to put their stock in the Mavs because there was no reason to.

Obviously everybody, myself included, was wrong. Mavs were a very strong team, with veterans hungry for their first championship... and it was just their time.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Has a team as young as the 2011 Thunder ever won a championship?

(serious question)

Durant - 22
Russ - 22
Harden - 21
Ibaka - 21

etc.

77 Blazers were the youngest at 24.5 avg age.

Dallas was the 2nd oldest team to win it with 30.9 avg age. Right being the 98 Bulls

[Megabox!]

According to this board, the 2011 Heat were the best of the Big 3 Era. Even though they had no bench at all, injured Mike Miller/Haslem, and were starting Mike Bibby, who had one of the worst playoff series ever. LeBron stunk up the joint in the Finals. But that Heat team was 3 deep.They still should have won the series, but they were a very flawed team.
I still think its funny that some ppl actually think that 2011 team was stacked. It was literally 3 guys playing against entire teams with Chalmers occasionally having a decent 10 or 15 pt game. They got by on talent alone from the Big 3 because the rest of the team was either bad, injured, or just old

[Cone]

Yeah... the reason is they've been disappointments for over 10 years.

Nobody was going to put their stock in the Mavs because there was no reason to.

Obviously everybody, myself included, was wrong. Mavs were a very strong team, with veterans hungry for their first championship... and it was just their time.

like what, one dissapointment in the last 10 years?

name me a year other than 06-07 where the mavs were the favorites.

not in the shaq/kobe lakers, not in the stacked spurs era, not even 05-06 where dirk dominated, 07-10 they had very mediocre squads. They werent a disappointment because they played in an incredibly stacked decade, and they never had a stacked team. its that simple.

I really would love to see dirk play with a hall of famer in his prime. I cant name another all time great who had to do carry their squads as much as he did

[SCdac]

77 Blazers were the youngest at 24.5 avg age.

Dallas was the 2nd oldest team to win it with 30.9 avg age. Right being the 98 Bulls

dat collective experience :applause:

props to Cubes for pulling it all together.

[LONGTIME]

Has a team as young as the 2011 Thunder ever won a championship?

(serious question)

Durant - 22
Russ - 22
Harden - 21
Ibaka - 21

etc.

'77 Trailblazers.

[ArbitraryWater]

What do you think it means?

He was weak mentally. It takes time to become a tough player.... just look at Dirk :confusedshrug:

Same fkn Bullshit. What the hell are you talking about? :biggums: Where did LeBron EVER choke in the Playoffs before 2011? Where did Dirk? Dude put up multiple 40+ pt games in the playoffs by '03, while having 30+ point g7' wins... he was clutch from the start.

[MavsSuperFan]

In response to the clear hyperbole, the teams the Mavs went up against have gotten massively overrated because of big names.

Take the Thunder for instance, average age of that team is like 22 years old lol... they were kids playing against hungry veterans...

Lakers were in a funk that season, look at Pau Gasol's numbers before running into the Mavs (41.8 FG% against the Hornets)...

Heat team were the worse than '12 and '13, when they added Battier, Allen, Andersen, etc, went on that amazing win steak, and Lebron was still prone to a good punking at the time (he's admitted that series helped him grow, he worked on his game in the summers following).

Dirk was excellent, but keep in mind he didn't lead his team in rebounds, blocks, assists, steals, or three's made..... In other words, he had a fair amount of help.

... inb4 DMAVS wall of text ...

Heat in 2011 was much better because that was still prime wade. Prime wade > old man allen, birdman, battier combined

lebron just performed way below what he was capable of.

Had lebron performed to 70% of his capability they would have won.

[Cone]

Same fkn Bullshit. What the hell are you talking about? :biggums: Where did LeBron EVER choke in the Playoffs before 2011? Where did Dirk? Dude put up multiple 40+ pt games in the playoffs by '03, while having 30+ point g7' wins... he was clutch from the start.

dont bother.

he is a butt hurt spurs fan. the guy just hates dirk, and spewing random bs

dont waste your time like i did :facepalm

[ArbitraryWater]

I still think it gets underrated. The guy was a machine in those playoffs. That team went through a lot of adversity. People though Indiana had them beat once Bosh went out. Counted them out when Boston went 3-2 over them. And were shoveling dirt on him when Hick City took game one of the Finals against them.

Read this great piece on the LeBron's 2012 Run: http://hoops-nation.com/community/topic/43514-putting-lebrons-legendary-title-run-into-its-proper-context/

[SCdac]

Same fkn Bullshit. What the hell are you talking about? :biggums: Where did LeBron EVER choke in the Playoffs before 2011? Where did Dirk? Dude put up multiple 40+ pt games in the playoffs by '03, while having 30+ point g7' wins... he was clutch from the start.

Dirk had arguably just as bad of a series as Lebron (Finals, 11) in 2007... which was Dirk's MVP year.

Point is, "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger". Dirk surely got better from that experience, and no doubt Lebron got better after getting punked by Marion/Stevenson/etc.

Almost every great player has had really bad moments, and I'd argue they make said player better in the long run.

Dirk looked mentally tougher, hungrier, and experienced in 2011 than he did a decade earlier.

[RagaZ]

Did LeBron have a bad game the whole 2012 postseason?
Game 3, Eastern Conference Finals.

Didnt he foul out in Game 4?

[SilkkTheShocker]

Read this great piece on the LeBron's 2012 Run: http://hoops-nation.com/community/topic/43514-putting-lebrons-legendary-title-run-into-its-proper-context/

I clicked on it, but said I didn't have permission to view, homie

[ArbitraryWater]

Heat in 2011 was much better because that was still prime wade. Prime wade > old man allen, birdman, battier combined

lebron just performed way below what he was capable of.

Had lebron performed to 70% of his capability they would have won.

This. 2011 Heat were the most stacked.. why? They had prime fkn Wade.

25+ PPG Scorer on good efficiency with GREAT DEFENSE. (Not what it is today)
If LeBron wouldn't have laid the biggest egg of his Career, and even played remotely close to 2012 Level, the Mavs are probably swept.

[ArbitraryWater]

I clicked on it, but said I didn't have permission to view, homie

Ohhh, forgot. I think you need to register to go on HN topics. Well PM me I'll copy&paste it to ya.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Game 3, Eastern Conference Finals.

Didnt he foul out in Game 4?


22-7-3 on 45% shooting is bad?

[SCdac]

Heat in 2011 was much better because that was still prime wade. Prime wade > old man allen, birdman, battier combined

lebron just performed way below what he was capable of.

Had lebron performed to 70% of his capability they would have won.

How do you explain the Heat going from a 58 win team to a 66 win team couple years later as their team filled out? Does that indicate regression as a team to you? ... I'm talking about the team as a whole, not one or two players.

[ArbitraryWater]

Game 3, Eastern Conference Finals.

Didnt he foul out in Game 4?

Ugh, he scored 34 Points on 61% in that one? You sure thats it?

Game 4, the only Game of the entire series he didnt score 30 in. Still 29 on an efficient 48%.

That Ejection was bullshit too.

[Bigsmoke]

This. 2011 Heat were the most stacked.. why? They had prime fkn Wade.

25+ PPG Scorer on good efficiency with GREAT DEFENSE. (Not what it is today)
If LeBron wouldn't have laid the biggest egg of his Career, and even played remotely close to 2012 Level, the Mavs are probably swept.

2012 were better

Wade and Bosh weren't as good as they were in 2011 but LeBron elevated is game and they had Udonis Haslem playing great getting boards. 2011 were 3 on 5

[ArbitraryWater]

Dirk had arguably just as bad of a series as Lebron (Finals, 11) in 2007... which was Dirk's MVP year.

Point is, "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger". Dirk surely got better from that experience, and no doubt Lebron got better after getting punked by Marion/Stevenson/etc.

Almost every great player has had really bad moments, and I'd argue they make said player better in the long run.

Dirk looked mentally tougher, hungrier, and experienced in 2011 than he did a decade earlier.

You're out of your damn mind dude... nobody EVER had a clutcher Finals Series. EVER. GTFOH

Yea, more experienced than in 2001, his first playoffs ever... :rolleyes: surprising

[ArbitraryWater]

2012 were better

Wade and Bosh weren't as good as they were in 2011 but LeBron elevated is game and they had Udonis Haslem playing great getting boards. 2011 were 3 on 5

We're not talking about better. More stacked. 2011 Heat would be better with LBJ playing like in 2012. This is from a Bron perspective.

[J Shuttlesworth]

I feel bad for Dirk/Mavs fans. Everyone remembers that series more for LeBron choking, than Dirk beasting.

[Bigsmoke]

We're not talking about better. More stacked. 2011 Heat would be better with LBJ playing like in 2012. This is from a Bron perspective.

That's only because of injury.

[ArbitraryWater]

I feel bad for Dirk/Mavs fans. Everyone remembers that series more for LeBron choking, than Dirk beasting.

Well thats because it was more LeBron choking than Dirk beasting... and this is coming from a huge Dirk stan. I got the dude top 15 all time and that 2011 run as top 10 ever.

[SexSymbol]

Nope. Thats the amazing thing. Both ESPN Lists ranked it as 2ND GREATEST PLAYOFF RUN. Of course ISH went crazy mad about that :lol But dude didn't have ONE poor game.

13 30+ Point Games in 23 Games.
It really can't be even top 5, great run, somewhere top 15.
TOP2 is straight reaching.

[T_L_P]

Better than Duncan's 03 run or Hakeem's 94 one? No way in hell.


Dirk wasn't even his team's most important defender. :oldlol:

[SCdac]

Better than Duncan's 03 run or Hakeem's 94 one? No way in hell.


Dirk wasn't even his team's most important defender. :oldlol:

No dude you read it wrong, better than Duncan's entire career :lol

[DMAVS41]

In response to the clear hyperbole, the teams the Mavs went up against have gotten massively overrated because of big names.

Take the Thunder for instance, average age of that team is like 22 years old lol... they were kids playing against hungry veterans...

Lakers were in a funk that season, look at Pau Gasol's numbers before running into the Mavs (41.8 FG% against the Hornets)...

Heat team were the worse than '12 and '13, when they added Battier, Allen, Andersen, etc, went on that amazing win steak, and Lebron was still prone to a good punking at the time (he's admitted that series helped him grow, he worked on his game in the summers following).

Dirk was excellent, but keep in mind he didn't lead his team in rebounds, blocks, assists, steals, or three's made..... In other words, he had a fair amount of help.

... inb4 DMAVS wall of text ...

No wall of text. You just continue to spew bullshit. The 11 Heat in the playoffs were the best team of the Heat era until facing the Mavs.

But you ignore all the evidence...pointing to regular seasons in which the team was healthy...etc.

The 11 Heat even in the regular season were the most balanced team they've had to date...playing elite offense and defense...and they had a peak Wade

Take credit away from the Mavs saying Lebron choked or something, but don't continue to talk shit because you still can't get over your Spurs choking to a slumping Heat team playing like shit

Over-rated? The inferior competition the Spurs have lucked into in pretty much all of their deep runs in the playoffs outside of 05.

[SCdac]

Wow :facepalm

Dirk's teammates in 2011 have become so underrated. I can't even put Dirk's run in the same tier as Duncan's just because of defense. And even then Duncan put up better offensive numbers and had an inferior supporting cast.

I agree about the defense and his teammates becoming underrated. There's something to be said about Hakeem and Duncan's ability to anchor defenses, on top of being the best offensive player.

Playmaking too... Duncan and Hakeem deserve a ton of credit.

Hakeem (94) - 4.3 apg ... lead team
Duncan (03) - 5.3 apg .... lead team
Dirk (11) - 2.5 apg ........ 4th on team (Kidd lead handedly with 7+ apg)

[MavsSuperFan]

How do you explain the Heat going from a 58 win team to a 66 win team couple years later as their team filled out? Does that indicate regression as a team to you? ... I'm talking about the team as a whole, not one or two players.
The team was deeper, which resulted in a better record.

But in the playoffs ur top players are more relevant. I think in a 7 game series 2011 heat would beat the 2012 or 2013 versions.

I dont buy that the 2012/2013 lebron was better than lebron has been since like 2009.

Lebron has been amazing for years. he just underperforms sometimes.

[DMAVS41]

Damn that Spurs stan homer logic;

2011 Heat - 3rd best offense and 5th best defense...healthy in playoffs with peak Wade and balling Bosh...absolutely rape two very good to great teams going 8-2 against the Celtics/Bulls in the ECF. Beat the Bulls 4-1 (after losing game 1)...despite Wade playing a subpar series...ROFL

2012 Heat - 8th best offense and 4th best defense...Bosh gets hurt in the playoffs and the Heat go down 3-2 against Boston.

2013 Heat - 2nd best offense and 9th best defense...team was a complete wreck in the playoffs. Wade was something around 70% at best...Bosh was a shell...everyone was in a shooting slump. Squeezed by an average Pacers team in 7...then got lucky to beat an old/ailing/choking Spurs team in 7...by far the worst version of the Heat in the playoffs...not close

So say what you want about Lebron choking and take away credit from my Mavs. I actually agree. That series was very much about Lebron's inability to finish and was about the Mavs (Dirk/Terry) able to close the deal and come through late in close games. Also have to give the Mavs credit for punking Lebron. Nobody else has held Lebron in his prime to a series like that before.

But please Spurs stan homer...stop with propping up a depleted and injured Heat team clearly playing like shit in order to make yourself feel better about your Spurs choke

[SCdac]

Lebron has been amazing for years, but losing badly to the Mavs probably made him better, and by his own admission

[quote]

[DMAVS41]

The team was deeper, which resulted in a better record.

But in the playoffs ur top players are more relevant. I think in a 7 game series 2011 heat would beat the 2012 or 2013 versions.

I dont buy that the 2012/2013 lebron was better than lebron has been since like 2009.

Lebron has been amazing for years. he just underperforms sometimes.

He's literally just stupid or he's ignorant.

The 11 Heat started 9-8 going through growing pains...and still managed to win 58.

Also, his comment about the "team as a whole"...that would make sense if the teams in the 12 and 13 playoffs were anything like the regular season teams (which are over-rated by him hugely to begin with)...I posted the ratings above that show the 11 Heat, even despite their rough start, were the most balanced team of the bunch.

The 12 Heat missed Bosh for key games. And then had a great matchup in the finals.

The 13 Heat were a shell of the win streak he always references. My god...Bosh and Wade were atrocious in the playoffs for their standards and the rest of the Heat struggled a great deal as well. Bosh, Chalmers, Wade, and Battier all shot very poorly in the playoffs. It's not just 2 players. If the 13 Heat had faced the competition of 11 and 12 they wouldn't have even made the Finals either year.

[DMAVS41]

Lebron has been amazing for years, but losing badly to the Mavs probably made him better, and by his own admission

Great, but that "better" Lebron was still going ghost through the first 5.75 games of the finals in 13 against your Spurs.

And if you guys don't choke and just make 1 free throw or grab 1 rebound...the narrative is completely different.

The point is that a team like the 11 Mavs isn't giving Lebron those chances. The 11 Mavs are closing that shit out. They are making big shots and free throws and big defensive stops...

That is the difference you can't see. Lebron got the chance to redeem himself in OT and in game 7 because of his weak competition in the finals with Parker, Green, Manu all playing like complete shit in a game that should have been an easy win with how great Duncan was

FYI...Lebron was shooting 41.5% through the first 5 games and 3qtrs of game 6. He was averaging 21 points in the 13 finals.

Against the Mavs? Lebron shot 47.8% and scored 18 ppg.

The truth is that Lebron was playing marginally better, if at all, against the Spurs through the first 5.75 games of the finals compared to the Mavs in 11.

The Spurs just couldn't close the deal. If they had...we'd be talking about which series was worse...especially with Lebron playing like such shit at the very end of regulation.

[MavsSuperFan]

Lebron has been amazing for years, but losing badly to the Mavs probably made him better, and by his own admission
Its easier to say "I got beat by a better team, but I am a lot better now"

Than it is to say "I lost to a team I would have beat if I didnt get scared and basically stopped shooting the ball."

[SCdac]

for any of you folks interested in some of Lebron's development since 2011, he worked to improve his range and post game. Become a more complete player. Hard to knock the guy for it.

http://grantland.com/features/how-lebron-james-transformed-game-become-highly-efficient-scoring-machine/

2011
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/adrumaddict/bd7cc748-834f-4253-96c9-8d6b9838aec5.jpg

2012
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/adrumaddict/7c1a46e5-42d0-44b8-a237-8f5abc354e24.jpg

2013
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/adrumaddict/c31699b7-c1f3-4b19-9cbd-d2a544dd6c69.jpg


“I wanted to get better,” James said of his decision to work with Olajuwon. “I wanted to improve and I sought out someone who I thought was one of the greatest low-post players to ever play this game. I was grateful and happy that he welcomed me with open arms; I was able to go down to Houston for four and a half days; I worked out twice a day; he taught me a lot about the low post and being able to gain an advantage on your opponent. I used that the rest of the offseason, when I went back to my hometown. Every day in the gym I worked on one thing or I worked on two things and tried to improve each and every day.”

Hakeem Olajuwon & Lebron James training sessions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yF0vQGFpHrs

That's not even mentioning the Heat getting better as a whole/team. Adding Battier, Birdman, and Allen were all key.

Idk why some of you cats are so damn defensive and touchy :confusedshrug: ... can we not have a civil discussion ?

[DMAVS41]

for any of you folks interested in some of Lebron's development since 2011, he worked to improve his range and post game. Become a more complete player. Hard to knock the guy for it.

http://grantland.com/features/how-lebron-james-transformed-game-become-highly-efficient-scoring-machine/

2011
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/adrumaddict/bd7cc748-834f-4253-96c9-8d6b9838aec5.jpg

2012
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/adrumaddict/7c1a46e5-42d0-44b8-a237-8f5abc354e24.jpg

2013
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/adrumaddict/c31699b7-c1f3-4b19-9cbd-d2a544dd6c69.jpg



Hakeem Olajuwon & Lebron James training sessions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yF0vQGFpHrs

That's not even mentioning the Heat getting better as a whole/team. Adding Battier, Birdman, and Allen were all key.

Idk why some of you cats are so damn defensive and touchy :confusedshrug: ... can we not have a civil discussion ?


For those interested in seeing how that played out in the finals before the Spurs gave new life to a dead team;

Lebron was scoring 21 ppg on 41.5% shooting against the Spurs in 13

Lebron scored 18 ppg on 47.8% shooting against the Mavs in 11

Both teams played a similar style of defense and it worked pretty much the same.

Difference was that the 11 Mavs were much better than 13 Spurs and instead of having guys choke in the big moments...they had guys play great. That is the true difference.

Lebron might have marginally improved overall as a player from 11 to 13, but his teammates were much worse in the 13 playoffs and his performance in the 13 finals left a lot to be desired in and of itself before the Spurs choke.


Oh, and again...

The 11 Heat were the most balanced team of the Heat era. The spurs homer will ignore this, and he'll continue on his narrative about adding players, but it actually didn't make them any better.

The 11 Heat had the 3rd best offense and 5th best defense...despite spending about 25% of the year going through going pains as a team.

ROFL...

[Kiddlovesnets]

It was indeed a great run, that year's playoffs turned someone who was believed to be a choker into one of the GOAT clutch players.

[DMAVS41]

Its easier to say "I got beat by a better team, but I am a lot better now"

Than it is to say "I lost to a team I would have beat if I didnt get scared and basically stopped shooting the ball."

Exactly.

God I wish we could watch the 11 Mavs play the 13 Heat in the finals. It would be over in 5 at most. Would be embarrassing to watch Lebron clank jumpers while Wade can't move and Bosh is slumping...

It would be a ****ing blood bath...

[DMAVS41]

Oh, and to the OP

No...Duncan's run in 03 was better in and of itself

[SCdac]

still amazed that 2011 Heat had this guy as their starting PG :oldlol:

http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Mike+Bibby+Orlando+Magic+v+Miami+Heat+5W8h9PTWYJXl .jpg

Playoff stats: 3.7 ppg (28.1 FG%), 1.2 apg, 21 mpg

He retired not long after.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Dirk 2011 finals: 26ppg/9.7rpg/2.0apg on 41.6% FG Ort: 105 Drtg: 105

Kobe 2009 finals: 32.4ppg/5.6rpg/7.4apg on 43% FG Ort: 111 Drtg: 100


not even better than Kobe 09.

[DMAVS41]

still amazed that 2011 Heat had this guy as their starting PG :oldlol:

http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Mike+Bibby+Orlando+Magic+v+Miami+Heat+5W8h9PTWYJXl .jpg

Playoff stats: 3.7 ppg (28.1 FG%), 1.2 apg, 21 mpg

He retired not long after.


Haven't you been propping Battier?

4.7 points on 29% fg...18 mpg

And, you know....

Still amazed the 13 Heat won a title with their 2nd best player hobbled and playing horribly;

16/5/5 on sub 50% TS and that doesn't even do it justice because he couldn't defend like he normally does either

Ouch...dat must have been some weak ass competition for the Heat to still win a title

[ArbitraryWater]

Dirk 2011 finals: 26ppg/9.7rpg/2.0apg on 41.6% FG Ort: 105 Drtg: 105

Kobe 2009 finals: 32.4ppg/5.6rpg/7.4apg on 43% FG Ort: 111 Drtg: 100


not even better than Kobe 09.

Finals only? Only chance Kobe has. Kobe had a poor finals series.

Run vs Run Dirk wins, easy.

http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/806888540.jpg?1378570703

Meanwhile Dirk 2011 Finals:

Game 1: 3/5 FG, 6/6 FT, 12 points
Game 2: 4/7 FG, 0/0 FT, 9 points (Game Winning driving layup with 3 seconds left)
Game 3: 5/8 FG, 6/6 FT, 17 points
Game 4: 2/6 FG, 6/6 FT, 10 points (Clutch shot with 15 seconds remaining to give Mavs 3-point lead)
Game 5: 2/4 FG, 6/6 FT, 10 points
Game 6: 4/7 FG, 0/0 FG, 8 points
Totals 20/37 FG, 18/18 FT, 66 points



Kobe don't stand a chance man :cry:

[SCdac]

Haven't you been propping Battier?

Battier isn't know for his offense or running a team's offense... he's primarily a defensive/hustle player... Have you watched his career or know what makes Battier valuable ?

Here's a great article on Shane Battier with the Heat...

"Shane Battier and the nuances of Basketball"
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/miamiheat/post/_/id/17593/shane-battier-and-the-nuances-of-basketball

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

It really does pain a lot of Spurs fans to see the Mavs do something that the Spurs could and will never do.

(In fact many Spurs fans thought it was already in the bag when they played the Heat because: if the Mavs can do it then there is no way the Spurs can't.)

[SilkkTheShocker]

still amazed that 2011 Heat had this guy as their starting PG :oldlol:

http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Mike+Bibby+Orlando+Magic+v+Miami+Heat+5W8h9PTWYJXl .jpg

Playoff stats: 3.7 ppg (28.1 FG%), 1.2 apg, 21 mpg

He retired not long after.

I am still shocked he played as terrible as he did. He missed countless open threes.

[DMAVS41]

Spurs homer;

Could you please explain why think so little of the 11 Heat based on how you evaluate these teams?

The 11 Heat had the 3rd best offense and 5th best defense in the regular season. They did this despite playing 17 games to start the year without any semblance of a plan or chemistry.

They then went 49-16 to finish the year...entered the playoffs healthy with the big 3 all playing great. They then went 12-3 en route to the finals...absolutely raping the Bulls and Celtics. And the beat the Bulls in 5 despite Wade having a below average ECF of 19/6/2 on sub 50% TS.

Please think about the above. After the slow start, they were great...and played at an above 60 win pace.

They then destroyed two very good teams in the East playoffs...again, despite one of their key guys (2nd best player) not playing all that great against the Bulls.

This inferior Lebron you speak of in 11...put up two dominating performances agains the best defense (Bulls) and 2nd best defense (Celtics) as well.

Could you please give some real evidence as to why an elite offensive and defensive team playing at an over 60 win clip despite the slow start...that was healthy and had the big 3 rolling....that blew through a tougher eastern playoffs....

Could you please explain why they weren't better than a team doing the exact opposite in the 13 playoffs?

[SilkkTheShocker]

It really does pain a lot of Spurs fans to see the Mavs do something that the Spurs could and will never do.

(In fact many Spurs fans thought it was already in the bag when they played the Heat because: if the Mavs can do it then there is no way the Spurs can't.)


Beat Miami? Or are you referring to something else

[SexSymbol]

Damn that Spurs stan homer logic;

2011 Heat - 3rd best offense and 5th best defense...healthy in playoffs with peak Wade and balling Bosh...absolutely rape two very good to great teams going 8-2 against the Celtics/Bulls in the ECF. Beat the Bulls 4-1 (after losing game 1)...despite Wade playing a subpar series...ROFL

2012 Heat - 8th best offense and 4th best defense...Bosh gets hurt in the playoffs and the Heat go down 3-2 against Boston.

2013 Heat - 2nd best offense and 9th best defense...team was a complete wreck in the playoffs. Wade was something around 70% at best...Bosh was a shell...everyone was in a shooting slump. Squeezed by an average Pacers team in 7...then got lucky to beat an old/ailing/choking Spurs team in 7...by far the worst version of the Heat in the playoffs...not close

So say what you want about Lebron choking and take away credit from my Mavs. I actually agree. That series was very much about Lebron's inability to finish and was about the Mavs (Dirk/Terry) able to close the deal and come through late in close games. Also have to give the Mavs credit for punking Lebron. Nobody else has held Lebron in his prime to a series like that before.

But please Spurs stan homer...stop with propping up a depleted and injured Heat team clearly playing like shit in order to make yourself feel better about your Spurs choke
2011 has no argument for being the best of the heat era, it's probably the weakest, Wade was in his peak, but the team besides the big 3 was god awful. Now the team besides them could contend for the playoffs. You're trying to overwrite history, revisionist much?

[DMAVS41]

Battier isn't know for his offense or running a team's offense... he's primarily a defensive/hustle player... Have you watched his career or know what makes Battier valuable ?

Here's a great article on Shane Battier with the Heat...

"Shane Battier and the nuances of Basketball"
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/miamiheat/post/_/id/17593/shane-battier-and-the-nuances-of-basketball

Thanks, but the issue is that Battier was also garbage in the playoffs. Hence he only played limited minutes.

His awful shooting really was hurting the Heat...not surprised you would ignore this though.

But yea...I guess Spo just decided to play him significantly less for no reason...:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

His shooting doesn't matter!

[TheMarkMadsen]

Finals only? Only chance Kobe has. Kobe had a poor finals series.

Run vs Run Dirk wins, easy.

http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/806888540.jpg?1378570703

Meanwhile Dirk 2011 Finals:

Game 1: 3/5 FG, 6/6 FT, 12 points
Game 2: 4/7 FG, 0/0 FT, 9 points (Game Winning driving layup with 3 seconds left)
Game 3: 5/8 FG, 6/6 FT, 17 points
Game 4: 2/6 FG, 6/6 FT, 10 points (Clutch shot with 15 seconds remaining to give Mavs 3-point lead)
Game 5: 2/4 FG, 6/6 FT, 10 points
Game 6: 4/7 FG, 0/0 FG, 8 points
Totals 20/37 FG, 18/18 FT, 66 points



Kobe don't stand a chance man :cry:

umm Run vs Run..

Kobe 2009 run: 30.2 ppg/5.3rpg/5.5apg 1.7 steals, .9 blocks per game. 46% FG. Ortg: 117 Drtg: 104

Dirk 2011 run: 27.7 ppg/8.1rpg/2.5apg .7 steals, .6 blocks per game 48.5% FG Ortg: 115 Drtg: 105

no chance? :lol

Plus Kobe had a better finals

[SilkkTheShocker]

2011 has no argument for being the best of the heat era, it's probably the weakest, Wade was in his peak, but the team besides the big 3 was god awful. Now the team besides them could contend for the playoffs. You're trying to overwrite history, revisionist much?

They were giving Juwan Howard minutes in the Finals. Guys like Bibby, Arroyo, and Dampier were starters at certain points. LeBron had a crap Finals, no doubt. But people really think that team was the most stacked of the Big 3 era? Their only two good bench players were hurt (Haslam/Miller). Wade isn't as good as he was in 2011, but they have a lot more shooters, play better in the clutch, etc. People got to remember that the 12/13 title runs went longer than they should have because of injury. The 11 team would be dead in the water if they lost Bosh or Wade to extended injury.

[DMAVS41]

2011 has no argument for being the best of the heat era, it's probably the weakest, Wade was in his peak, but the team besides the big 3 was god awful. Now the team besides them could contend for the playoffs. You're trying to overwrite history, revisionist much?

No, just reality.

Defend your position please.

Why were the 11 Heat playing elite offense and defense? Why were they the most balanced team in terms of offense / defense dominance? Why did they dominate the eastern playoffs?

If it was all the big 3...how did they backdoor sweep the 11 Bulls with Wade playing a subpar series?

The true revisionist history is with you and the other ignorant fans that just lap up whatever ESPN is serving.

But please...bring it on

[SCdac]

Eh, Spurs lose, Spurs win. Shit happens. I'm an NBA fan as much as anything and been watching it since as long as I remember. I got nothing against the Mavs but clearly the OP is hyperbole....

[DMAVS41]

They were giving Juwan Howard minutes in the Finals. Guys like Bibby, Arroyo, and Dampier were starters at certain points. LeBron had a crap Finals, no doubt. But people really think that team was the most stacked of the Big 3 era? Their only two good bench players were hurt (Haslam/Miller). Wade isn't as good as he was in 2011, but they have a lot more shooters, play better in the clutch, etc. People got to remember that the 12/13 title runs went longer than they should have because of injury. The 11 team would be dead in the water if they lost Bosh or Wade to extended injury.


Yet somehow they beat the Bulls in 5 despite Wade having a subpar series.

The reason the 11 Heat couldn't have overcome a Wade injury was because the competition in 11 was so much better.

:no:

[DMAVS41]

Eh, Spurs lose, Spurs win. Shit happens. I'm an NBA fan as much as anything and been watching it since as long as I remember. I got nothing against the Mavs but clearly the OP is hyperbole....

Of course the OP is shit,

but I'm more curious as to why you can't really defend your position. you and others just state things like they are facts...but can't really provide any evidence.

it's always just;

"they weren't deep in 11"..."they added players"..."check out the regular season win totals"

which I've shredded time and time again.

like I said. you don't even have to give the Mavs the credit...i don't really care.

but don't act like that 11 Heat were some flawed team. they weren't. they were the best version of the Heat in the playoffs to date, mainly because of health, and it took a great Mavs performance and epic choke job from Lebron to lose

like, i already showed you that Lebron was essentially playing just as bad in the 13 finals through the first 5.75 games. He was shooting like 7% less from the field and only scoring 3 more points per game.

Lebron was not some transformed player. He lucked out with the Spurs choke and Allen 3. If one ft is made or Allen misses that shot...we are looking at the strength of the 13 Heat far more accurately.

They were hurt and slumping...and really lucked out with weak competition.

[NumberSix]

Meh. Dirk was lucky to go to the 1 finals where the opposing superstar inexplicably decided not to play. Any team that won the west would have won in 2011. Dirk was in the right place at the right time.