why don't more people realize you can't win without a big?

[highwhey]

I mean a legitimate big man that can protect the rim. Unless you have LeBron on your team, you aren't winning sh1t. There's no way around it. All of the winning teams of recent years had a solid bigman that protected the rim (lebrons team doesn't really need one).

Always irritated me when people go off about having an elite perimeter player or upgrading their back court. Even when people brag about suns having goran and bledsoe, yeah theyre great but reality is suns are going nowhere without a better frontcourt. It doesn't matter if goran keeps up his all star caliber play and bledsoe continues to flourish, the paint is still vacated. Plumlee cant play big minutes to be a playoffs rim protector.

Im actually very jealous of the pelicans, they have the makings of a dynasty with Anthony Davis. I'd trade anyone on the suns team for him. Pretty soon he's going to take that team to the playoffs.

[AnaheimLakers24]

lebron is a big ass guy. so yes every team always needs a big

[Quickening]

This is why its laughable people think the heat are super stacked outside LeBron. Swap LeBron with the star player of any contending team and they become favorites, he is that good all round.

[Black and White]

LeBron still needs a decent big to win.

[Fire Colangelo]

You can't win without a PG either :confusedshrug:

[sportjames23]

I mean a legitimate big man that can protect the rim. Unless you have LeBron on your team, you aren't winning sh1t. There's no way around it. All of the winning teams of recent years had a solid bigman that protected the rim (lebrons team doesn't really need one).

Always irritated me when people go off about having an elite perimeter player or upgrading their back court. Even when people brag about suns having goran and bledsoe, yeah theyre great but reality is suns are going nowhere without a better frontcourt. It doesn't matter if goran keeps up his all star caliber play and bledsoe continues to flourish, the paint is still vacated. Plumlee cant play big minutes to be a playoffs rim protector.

Im actually very jealous of the pelicans, they have the makings of a dynasty with Anthony Davis. I'd trade anyone on the suns team for him. Pretty soon he's going to take that team to the playoffs.


90s Bulls say "Hi".

[sportjames23]

You can't win without a PG either :confusedshrug:


90s Bulls say "Hi" to you, too.

[Fire Colangelo]

90s Bulls say "Hi" to you, too.

No, they had a PG.

Unless BJ Armstrong, John Paxson, Ron Harper, Steve Kerr don't count as PGs.

My point is, the OP said you can't win without a good big man. Well truth is you you can't win without a decent guard either.

Btw, Horace Grant is way too underrated on those early 90's Bulls teams. And Rodman, while not big, had a big game. He at the very least solved the Bulls rebounding problems.

[SavageMode]

Only Shaq, Lebron and MJ go against OPs theory.

[sportjames23]

No, they had a PG.

Unless BJ Armstrong, John Paxson, Ron Harper, Steve Kerr don't count as PGs.

My point is, the OP said you can't win without a good big man. Well truth is you you can't win without a decent guard either.

Btw, Horace Grant is way too underrated on those early 90's Bulls teams. And Rodman, while not big, had a big game. He at the very least solved the Bulls rebounding problems.


If that's the case, every team in NBA history has a point guard. And centers, power forwards and shooting guards.

To the point of the thread, though--the Heat aren't the only team--championship calibre or otherwise--in NBA history with a good big man. My point about the 90s Bulls, they had big bodies, but not very good big men. They had decent bigs in Cartwright (early on, he was good with the Bulls, but injuries and age took its toll) and Longley, but that's about it. The rest were big bodies to use fouls with, hit a few shots and rebound.

Agreed on Grant and Rodman, though. I knew the Bulls were winning it all when we traded for him in 1995.

[Black and White]

Only Shaq, Lebron and MJ go against OPs theory.

Firstly Shaq is a big man, LeBron cannot win without one, and MJ had Rodman and Horace Grant

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Firstly Shaq is a big man, LeBron cannot win without one, and MJ had Rodman and Horace Grant

Bosh isn't really a great rim protector if you're referring to him.

[Black and White]

Bosh isn't really a great rim protector if you're referring to him.

He is still a big man, and he isn't the best defender but he held his own, I don't think the Heat would have won if you replaced him with a scrub.

[Fire Colangelo]

If that's the case, every team in NBA history has a point guard. And centers, power forwards and shooting guards.

To the point of the thread, though--the Heat aren't the only team--championship calibre or otherwise--in NBA history with a good big man. My point about the 90s Bulls, they had big bodies, but not very good big men. They had decent bigs in Cartwright (early on, he was good with the Bulls, but injuries and age took its toll) and Longley, but that's about it. The rest were big bodies to use fouls with, hit a few shots and rebound.

Agreed on Grant and Rodman, though. I knew the Bulls were winning it all when we traded for him in 1995.

Well, a big man's job is to protect the paint and grab rebounds. It's obvious that without someone to grab rebounds and protect the paint it's gonna be hard to win.

It's basically saying you can't win without a shooting guard that can shoot.

I just didn't think this was thread worthy lol. I do agree with you though, the Bulls were not stacked in the front court.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

He is still a big man, and he isn't the best defender but he held his own, I don't think the Heat would have won if you replaced him with a scrub.

Yes but OP said a "legitimate big man that can protect the rim", which Bosh is not.

[Fire Colangelo]

Yes but OP said a "legitimate big man that can protect the rim", which Bosh is not.

Lol @ specifics, he still counts as a big man.

[Black and White]

Yes but OP said a "legitimate big man that can protect the rim", which Bosh is not.

Meh, Birdman was there, tbh I think it should be changed to you can't win without a quality big.

[highwhey]

90s Bulls say "Hi".
When I included lebron as an exception, mj was included there too except for the fact that im referring to our current basketball era, which lebron is part of.

And you can try to be a smartass by saying every team needs a "guard" so and so but you're missing the point. Indiana can compete with miami while having hill as their pg because of hibbert, but if you give them and elite pg and replace hibbert with a scrub, there wouldn't be any 7 game series. Then again, hill isnt indianas main playmaker ether. He just fills a spot that needs to be filled.

Point is, any good big man is always going to be a higher valued chess piece.

[highwhey]

Lol @ specifics, he still counts as a big man.
Thats the whole point of the thread, bosh isnt a joakim noah, tyson chandler or roy hibbert. Any team without a good rim protector such as those that I just mentioned is not winning a title in todays era.

[Inactive]

No, they had a PG.

Unless BJ Armstrong, John Paxson, Ron Harper, Steve Kerr don't count as PGs.

My point is, the OP said you can't win without a good big man. Well truth is you you can't win without a decent guard either.

Btw, Horace Grant is way too underrated on those early 90's Bulls teams. And Rodman, while not big, had a big game. He at the very least solved the Bulls rebounding problems.None of those guys, except maybe at times Paxson played a traditional PG role with the Bulls. They were primarily shooters, while Pippen, or Jordan played point on offense. Same with Chalmers, and Cole in Miami. The PGs did a little bit more on PJ's Laker teams, but even then they were mostly just shooters.

Firstly Shaq is a big man, LeBron cannot win without one, and MJ had Rodman and Horace GrantThis is ridiculous. If 6'7-6'8 non-rim protectors like Rodman count as bigs, then every team in the history of the league has several bigs. Yeah, if you have 15 Isaiah Thomases on your team, you probably won't win an NBA championship. Good point :rolleyes: .


When I included lebron as an exception, mj was included there too except for the fact that im referring to our current basketball era, which lebron is part of. How do you decide what our current era is?

[Fire Colangelo]

None of those guys, except maybe at times Paxson played a traditional PG role with the Bulls. They were primarily shooters, while Pippen, or Jordan played point on offense. Same with Chalmers, and Cole in Miami. The PGs did a little bit more on PJ's Laker teams, but even then they were mostly just shooters.

Well, what I meant was they had someone playing at the PG position. But lets just say all the names I listed didn't play a traditional PG role, MJ/Pippen did. So yes, as you said, they DID have some one playing point.

[SilkkTheShocker]

He is still a big man, and he isn't the best defender but he held his own, I don't think the Heat would have won if you replaced him with a scrub.

He really did hold his own last season. He got destroyed by Hibbert. And did his best to make Duncan the Finals MVP.

[SilkkTheShocker]

90s Bulls say "Hi" to you, too.

LOL is that a joke?

[Inactive]

Well, what I meant was they had someone playing at the PG position. But lets just say all the names I listed didn't play a traditional PG role, MJ/Pippen did. So yes, as you said, they DID have some one playing point.If you have 5 players on the floor, 2 will be considered guards, one of them will be considered the PG, and one will be considered the SG. Whoever dribbles the ball across the court, and gets a play started is playing the PG role.

It's not possible to play in the NBA without 1 player at each position, and at least one person who handles the ball. So, what you say is true, in an incredibly obvious, tautological sense. By the same reasoning, no team has ever, or will ever win a single game without exactly 2 bigs, 1 SF, 1 SG, and 1 PG.

[Smoke117]

No, they had a PG.

Unless BJ Armstrong, John Paxson, Ron Harper, Steve Kerr don't count as PGs.

My point is, the OP said you can't win without a good big man. Well truth is you you can't win without a decent guard either.

Btw, Horace Grant is way too underrated on those early 90's Bulls teams. And Rodman, while not big, had a big game. He at the very least solved the Bulls rebounding problems.

The Bulls had a PG but it was neither of those players. The triangle offense is less reliant on a traditional PG in general, but if anyone could said to be their PG it was obviously Pippen. He is the one who ran and set up the triangle offense and years later literally played starting PG for the Blazers. None of those guys named above actually played the traditional role of a PG on the Bulls. Only Scottie Pippen can be coined as that. Pippen could have been a good-great pg on any team. If anything playing on the Bulls limited his ability to run a team as the triangle offense isn't built to be led by a dominant PG type player. The fact that Pippen was a legitimate PG for the Blazers when he was 36 years old goes a long way of telling how he could have been one of the best PG's on any team in his prime years.

[Uncle Drew]

Only Shaq, Lebron and MJ go against OPs theory.
:facepalm

[Smoke117]

As far as the whole "You can't win without a big" argument...I think that more stems from the fact that in general the great teams have had an big man who was their "defensive anchor" or was a great scorer with great efficiency. The Bulls were able to win without a big man like that (Grant and Rodman were both very good defensive players but neither were anchors and neither were go to guys offensively) because Pippen and Jordan made up for the fact that you didn't need a big man because they were pretty much easily the two best defensive non big man players in the league. The fact that Jordan was able to score as many points as he did with the effiency as a big goes a long way too. Scottie destroyed offenses with his defense and Jordan destroyed defenses with his offense.

So the Bulls probably are anomaly for the fact that their main scoring option as a SG was just as efficient as a big man while scoring more points than all of them and then the fact that their two best scorers were also easily the best defensive players at their positions and Pippen only behind Hakeem and Robinson for most of his career as a SF.

[MichaelCorleone]

Miami Heat.

[Collie]

Only Shaq, Lebron and MJ go against OPs theory.

:coleman:

[Take Your Lumps]

I still can't believe MJ hauled Luc Longley's carcass to 3 chips.

A 7-2' center who shot 45% from the field and grabbed 5 boards a game. Incredible.

[Rocketswin2013]

Only Shaq, Lebron and MJ go against OPs theory.
1. Shaq is a big man. Tf.

2.(LeBron's team) Bosh is a borderline hall of famer. Whether you believe it or not.

3. (MJ' s team) Dennis Rodman is one of the greatest defenders and rebounders in the history of the league.

[nathanjizzle]

how does this thread exist when the last two years a team with no real center won the championship.

[Keno]

laugh my ****ing ass off at bosh being a legit big man. if that's the case then i guess ibaka is as good as prime shaq.

[Black and White]

laugh my ****ing ass off at bosh being a legit big man. if that's the case then i guess ibaka is as good as prime shaq.

How the hell is Bosh not a legit big man?

[MichaelCorleone]

How the hell is Bosh not a legit big man?
He shoots three pointers ffs.

Legit big man don't do that.

[Uncle Drew]

laugh my ****ing ass off at bosh being a legit big man. if that's the case then i guess ibaka is as good as prime shaq.
6'11'' you dumb fcuk.

[Black and White]

He shoots three pointers ffs.

Legit big man don't do that.

So Dirk and Kevin Love are not legit big men?

[highwhey]

how does this thread exist when the last two years a team with no real center won the championship.
Did u not read op? :facepalm

LEBRON EXCEPTION

[Keno]

How the hell is Bosh not a legit big man?

a legit fking big man? are you being serious right now? please say ya, so i know to ignore you in the future.

[Uncle Drew]

He shoots three pointers ffs.

Legit big man don't do that.
Aha, so all these years I was thinking Dirk was a big man. Guess I was wrong. Idiot.

[Keno]

6'11'' you dumb fcuk.

oh so legit bigs are just tall people? so everyone single team in nba history have won with a big.

[Uncle Drew]

oh so legit bigs are just tall people? so everyone single team in nba history have won with a big.
Yes.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

He is still a big man, and he isn't the best defender but he held his own, I don't think the Heat would have won if you replaced him with a scrub.
if you replaced him with a Big like Chandler or Noah or even Gortat and Wade can score 20PPG as he should they would be much more dominant in the playoffs.
i love Boshs game and he is a real good player but he just cant defend Centers properly.
its amazing Miami won Back2Back with this glaring flaw.
:coleman:

[Marlo_Stanfield]

Aha, so all these years I was thinking Dirk was a big man. Guess I was wrong. Idiot.
tell me WTF Dirk ever won in the playoffs without a decent rim protector??:coleman:

[Black and White]

if you replaced him with a Big like Chandler or Noah or even Gortat and Wade can score 20PPG as he should they would be much more dominant in the playoffs.
i love Boshs game and he is a real good player but he just cant defend Centers properly.
its amazing Miami won Back2Back with this glaring flaw.
:coleman:

If you take Bosh off and replace him with a scrub does Miami win?

[Uncle Drew]

tell me WTF Dirk ever won in the playoffs without a decent rim protector??:coleman:
This isn't the rim protector thread you idiot.

[secund2nun]

He is still a big man, and he isn't the best defender but he held his own, I don't think the Heat would have won if you replaced him with a scrub.


Held his own= getting raped by Hibbert and Duncan???

Bosh is not a rim protector or rebounder period. He can't even post up or box out. He is a stretch PF period. Miami is the only title winning team I can think of without a legit center or PF that can rim protect and or post offense/rebound. Even the Bulls had an average center.