Competition Faced: MJ / Kobe / LeBron 60+ point games

[SamuraiSWISH]

MJ:
Sophomore Season, Playoffs
63 v.s. 1986 Celtics (Champions) 67-15, 1st ranked Defense

61 v.s. 1987 Pistons 52-30, 5th ranked Defense
61 v.s. 1987 Hawks 57-25, 2nd ranked Defense
64 v.s. 1993 Magic 41-41, 12th ranked Defense
69 v.s. 1990 Cavs 42-40, 10th ranked Defense

Kobe:
60 v.s. Grizzlies 22-60, 30th ranked Defense
61 v.s. Knicks 32-50, 23rd ranked Defense

Only 3 quarters, Finals Runner Up
62 v.s. Mavericks 60-22, 11th ranked Defense

65 v.s. Blazers 32-50, 26th ranked Defense
81 v.s. Raptors 27-55, 29th ranked Defense

LeBron:
61 v.s. Bobcats 27-33, 6th ranked Defense

[russwest0]

The Bobcats aren't the 6th best defense in the league and everyone knows it.

[SamuraiSWISH]

The Bobcats aren't the 6th best defense in the league and everyone knows it.
"Defensive Rating" says otherwise, bruhman

[Angel Face]

Lebron's 60 point game is the most impressive, he did it against the Bobcats. Melo too dropped 62 against the Bobcats. Who's next? Anthony Bennett?

[Trollsmasher]

Damn, D rating spoke up

MJ


Lebron
Kobe

[chazzy]

"Defensive Rating" says otherwise, bruhman
For a team this talent depleted, it's fair to mention Henderson was out. And you should add that Dallas was the #1 offense that year, since he outscored them :oldlol:

[SamuraiSWISH]

Lebron's 60 point game is the most impressive, he did it against the Bobcats. Melo too dropped 62 against the Bobcats. Who's next? Anthony Bennett?
They're a decent ranked defense. #6 is no joke. That's fringe top 5 in the league. As a team they're definitely better than the 2006 Raptors, 2009 Knicks, 2007 Grizzlies, and 2007 Blazers.

The best performances in that bunch are MJ's performances v.s. '86 Celtics, '87 Hawks, '87 Pistons and Kobe's performance v.s. 2006 Mavericks. By far. No argument really. LeBron's might round off the top five between all three.

[oh the horror]

Man, Jordan dropping big games on monsters back in the day.

[J Shuttlesworth]

So you're telling me Jordan > LeBron > Kobe ?

What other shocking news are you gonna tell me? That pauk is a f@ggot?

[SamuraiSWISH]

That pauk is a f@ggot?
Where has he gone?

[ImKobe]

So you're telling me Jordan > LeBron > Kobe ?

What other shocking news are you gonna tell me? That pauk is a f@ggot?

1 60-point game against a subpar Eastern Conference team for an entire career > 5 60+ point games, one of which in 3 quarters against a Finals team?

:facepalm

Kobe & MJ both dropped 60+ on a 60+ win Finals team with both teams having at least one HOF in their prime, Lebron dropped 61 against Al Jefferson & MKG :applause:

[Angel Face]

They're a decent ranked defense. #6 is no joke. That's fringe top 5 in the league. As a team they're definitely better than the 2006 Raptors, 2009 Knicks, 2007 Grizzlies, and 2007 Blazers.

The best performances in that bunch are MJ's performances v.s. '86 Celtics, '87 Hawks, '87 Pistons and Kobe's performance v.s. 2006 Mavericks. By far. No argument really. LeBron's might round off the top five between all three.

Bobcat's number 6 ranked defense is like a joke. They're a talent depleted team. The reason they're in playoff contention is because east is weak. Also, Kobe had the funniest 60 point game, he goes ham on teams with no defense. His most impressive was against the Mavs though.

Obviously, MJ's 63 point game against Celtics is the most impressive even though they lost that game. Playoffs 60 point game > regular season 60 point game.

[SamuraiSWISH]

1 60-point game against a subpar Eastern Conference team for an entire career > 5 60+ point games, one of which in 3 quarters against a Finals team?
Dude come on, the 2014 Bobcats are clearly better than all those teams Kobe dropped 60+ on apart from the 2006 Mavericks. Much better defense than those squads too.

That 62 in 3 quarter game was insane.

The way he was shooting, the way he was getting to the line (sometimes gifted via new 2006 rules) ...

If the game was remotely competitive and he had ANOTHER 30 point quarter like he did in the 3rd ... you're looking at a 90+ point game against the runner up NBA Finalist.

Very impressive.

[ImKobe]

Bobcat's number 6 ranked defense is like a joke. They're a talent depleted team. The reason they're in playoff contention is because east is weak. Also, Kobe had the funniest 60 point game, he goes ham on teams with no defense. His most impressive was against the Mavs though.

Obviously, MJ's 63 point game against Celtics is the most impressive even though they lost that game. Playoffs 60 point game > regular season 60 point game.

I thought the 69 against the Cavs was far more impressive because it was in a win in OT, where MJ hit 2 free throws to ice the game for his 68th & 69th point. Cavs were also a top 10 defensive team.

[KOBEisBaawlliin!]

#1 or #29 defense, all teams should be ready for NBA caliber. It is hard to impose your will in the NBA.

[J Shuttlesworth]

1 60-point game against a subpar Eastern Conference team for an entire career > 5 60+ point games, one of which in 3 quarters against a Finals team?

:facepalm

Kobe & MJ both dropped 60+ on a 60+ win Finals team with both teams having at least one HOF in their prime, Lebron dropped 61 against Al Jefferson & MKG :applause:
You obviously didn't read the thread. Did you even see the DRTGs? :biggums: Kobe was playing against fodder.

[Angel Face]

I thought the 69 against the Cavs was far more impressive because it was in a win in OT, where MJ hit 2 free throws to ice the game for his 68th & 69th point. Cavs were also a top 10 defensive team.

I still go with his 63 point game against the Celtics. That's 86 Celtics, one of the GOAT teams.

[ImKobe]

Dude come on, the 2014 Bobcats are clearly better than all those teams Kobe dropped 60+ on apart from the 2006 Mavericks. Much better defense than those squads too.

That 62 in 3 quarter game was insane.

The way he was shooting, the way he was getting to the line (sometimes gifted via new 2006 rules) ...

If the game was remotely competitive and he had ANOTHER 30 point quarter like he did in the 3rd ... you're looking at a 90+ point game against the runner up NBA Finalist.

Very impressive.

He had 25 points in the 3rd quarter & was only 5-9 in the 4th despite it being garbage time. Kobe's 65 vs Portland is also more impressive because he also had only 12 FTA and he hit 3 straight 3s in the 4th to bring the Lakers back from down 7 to win it in OT with a turnaround corner 3 dagger.

Also I'd put Kobe's first half against MJ in 03 above Lebron's 61, he scored 23 straight points in the 2nd quarter on 9 straight shots made, 8 threes in the first half for 42 points


Often hailed as the "next Michael Jordan,'' a comparison he dislikes, the 24-year-old Bryant made nine shots in a row and scored 23 consecutive Los Angeles points during a stretch of 5:42 that began late in the second quarter.

[The-Legend-24]

All this proves is that MJ couldn't hit 80. :oldlol:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Kobe is "king" at shitting on bad defenses.

MJ
Kobe (more 60+ games than Lebron)
Lebron

[J Shuttlesworth]

All this proves is that MJ couldn't hit 80. :oldlol:
Kobe couldn't hit 3 FMVPs :lol

[ImKobe]

You obviously didn't read the thread. Did you even see the DRTGs? :biggums: Kobe was playing against fodder.

So, Kobe outscoring a Finals team in 3 quarters is fodder? His 62, 65 & 81 point games are far more impressive than Bron's given the fact that 2 of those were comeback victories & the 62 was against the Mavs.

Bobcats are fodder, a medicore team in the Eastern Conference. Like Nique said, who was there on the Bobcats to make Lebron work on D? They are ranked 26th in the league in ORTG.

[SamuraiSWISH]

All this proves is that MJ couldn't hit 80. :oldlol:
Probably not, but he didn't abuse bottom feeders with sub .500 records, with atrocious defenses while at his peak like Kobe in order to do his damage. I don't even think MJ would be that aleinating or selfish to his teammates.

Kobe got there because his hot streak and willingness to shoot the three ball. Jordan scored more actual baskets in many of these games. Less off free throws, more scored attempts without the 3 ball.

MJ's hot streak given his game of: drive, mid range, occassional 3 puts his absolute peak in the 60's. The only game I could've seen him getting to 70 was the Finals game where he was purposely shooting a lot of 3s to prove he could.

Kobe's game of: 3 ball, mid range, occassional drive is why on his blistering nights his total got way higher, much quicker as well.

Do you honestly think scoring 80 on a bottom feeding team, and crap defense is more impressive than dropping over 50 in the playoffs, or 60+ on quality opponents and impressive defenses?

I know you're a troll. But seriously?

:oldlol:

[KOBEisBaawlliin!]

81 is the best. really about deviation from playbook and playing 5 on 1.

[Milbuck]

Defensive ratings are cool and all, but blindly following them is pretty irrational.

I mean, does anyone seriously believe that Lebron's 61 against the Bobcats was more impressive than Kobe's 62 in 3 quarters against the Western Conference Champions Mavs?

[ImKobe]

Probably not, but he didn't abuse bottom feeders with sub .500 records while at his peak like Kobe in order to do it. I don't even think he would be that aleinating or selfish to his teammates.

Kobe got there because his hot streak and willingness to shoot the three ball. Jordan scored more actual baskets in many of these games. Less off free throws, more scored attempts without the 3 ball.

MJ's hot streak given his game of: drive, mid range, occassional 3 puts his absolute peak in the 60's. The only game I could've seen him getting to 70 was the Finals game where he was purposely shooting a lot of 3s to prove he could.

Kobe's game of: 3 ball, mid range, occassional drive is why on his blistering nights his total got way higher, much quicker as well.

Do you honestly think scoring 80 on a bottom feeding team, and defense is more impressive than dropping over 50 in the playoffs, or 60+ on quality opponents and defenses?

I know you're a troll. But seriously?

:oldlol:

Then why hasn't anyone besides Wilt & Kobe dropped 80+ in a single game? MJ took 22-28 shots a game during the years the Bulls weren't contender material & he had plenty of 40+ shot games, where he shot under 50 or even 40%.

[The-Legend-24]

...
Try to spin it anyway you want, MJ just wasn't capable of scoring 80. :oldlol:

[SamuraiSWISH]

Defensive ratings are cool and all, but blindly following them is pretty irrational.

I mean, does anyone seriously believe that Lebron's 61 against the Bobcats was more impressive than Kobe's 62 in 3 quarters against the Western Conference Champions Mavs?
Not at all, I agree ... I said Kobe's 62 in 3 more impressive than Bron's 61.

I'm not however going to sit here and act like the 2014 Bobcats aren't clearly better than: 2006 Raptors, 2007 Blazers, 2007 Grizzlies, and 2009 Knicks.

I think offense, making one use energy on defense is equally effective as a great defense. That's why D-Rating + Team Record gives a much better account of the quality of an opponent, wouldn't you agree?

ImKobe over here claiming that 2014 Bobcats are fodder, but the 2006 Craptors, 2007 Blazers, 2007 Grizzlies, and 2009 Knicks WEREN'T?

:biggums:

[ImKobe]

Defensive ratings are cool and all, but blindly following them is pretty irrational.

I mean, does anyone seriously believe that Lebron's 61 against the Bobcats was more impressive than Kobe's 62 in 3 quarters against the Western Conference Champions Mavs?

Of course not. Bobcats have one of the top 5 worst offenses in the league, meaning Bran could save all his energy on offense, especially when Miami was up 20+ points and the game was out of reach, which is why Bran could keep upping his point total. Mavs were ranked 1st in ORTG in 06.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Then why hasn't anyone besides Wilt & Kobe dropped 80+ in a single game? MJ took 22-28 shots a game during the years the Bulls weren't contender material & he had plenty of 40+ shot games, where he shot under 50 or even 40%.
I didn't say it wasn't impressive. I said it wasn't AS impressive. Playoffs, quality competition, better game plans, better defenses.

Wilt, and Kobe had to be hideously selfish in those REGULAR SEASON games too. Kobe, and the Lakers had that game in hand by the time he hit 70 if you were watching. At no point with all that defensive attention you mean to tell me Kobe couldn't get anyone else involved, yet still win the game?

MJ wasn't built to put up 80, I agree. He scored more on higher percentage shots, and less on threes to rack up a higher total, quicker. Don't get me wrong, any 60+ point game is impressive. I'm just putting perspective.

D-Rob scored 71. That's more than Jordan. David Thompson, Elgin Baylor, etc.

[ImKobe]

Not at all, I agree ... I said Kobe's 62 in 3 more impressive than Bron's 61.

I'm not however going to sit here and act like the 2014 Bobcats aren't clearly better than: 2006 Raptors, 2007 Blazers, 2007 Grizzlies, and 2009 Knicks.

I think offense, making one use energy on defense is equally effective as a great defense. That's why D-Rating + Team Record gives a much better account of the quality of an opponent, wouldn't you agree?

ImKobe over here claiming that 2014 Bobcats are fodder, but the 2006 Craptors, 2007 Blazers, 2007 Grizzlies, and 2009 Knicks WEREN'T?

:biggums:

Why not add in ORTG? Mavs were ranked 1st, Raptors 5th, Grizzlies 13th, Bobcats 26th. ORTG shows how effective a team is at capitalizing on their possessions, Dallas & Toronto had good offensive teams to make Kobe work on the other end. How much energy did Lebron spend guarding MKG?

[Yao Ming's Foot]

More evidence that Kobe puts up insane numbers against teams with defensive ratings on par with typical Jordan playoff opponents. :confusedshrug:

[juju151111]

More evidence that Kobe puts up insane numbers against teams with defensive ratings on par with typical Jordan playoff opponents. :confusedshrug:
Playoffs>>> Regular season. Kobe doesn't have a 60 point game in the playoffs and 1 50 point game.

[Da_Realist]

MJ could get 45 to 55 against any opponent, any situation, regular season, playoffs or Finals for most of his career. On a good night, he could go for 60+. I agree with Swish that he tops out at mid 60's playing at the top end of his game. He could have gotten more but then he would have been playing like someone else.

Yet I'd still take his scoring that can be had on any given night against any given opponent even in the most stressful situations than to top out at a higher point total but only in the most favorable conditions.

[Keno]

lmaooo @ kobe's. the only respected sixty point plus game is against the mavericks, where he got sixty two through three quarters. but even then he had twenty five free throw attempts, three less than the enter mavericks squad. so even that game is questionable, lmao.

so basically none of kobe's sixty plus point games are respected.

[navy]

MJ could get 45 to 55 against any opponent, any situation, regular season, playoffs or Finals for most of his career.
That would mean he would have averaged something close to that.

[eliteballer]

Please tell us the PPG allowed by the teams Jordan faced vs Kobe and LeBron.

[LeBron 06]

Durant was 8/24 vs Bobcats the night before.....

[ArbitraryWater]

You Kobe Fans trying to downplay the Bobcat's Defense :facepalm

Drtg doesn't lie.

[gts]

oh lord.. the idiots have now found an imaginary way to degrade a 60 point game :facepalm

this place just keeps getting worse

[kshutts1]

Most impressive is Kobe's 81.. because it's 81 points. That's a very good quarter of play ahead of any other scoring feat by Jordan, Kobe or Lebron.

Second most impressive is Kobe's 62 in 3 quarters. Then Jordan's are the next in line.
'
Lebron's scoring is probably the least impressive of all the 60 point games, but add in his other stats, and they make it more impressive. Dude did everything.

[AnaheimLakers24]

skewed

[DonDadda59]

Man, Jordan dropping big games on monsters back in the day.

Like Phil said- Jordan wasn't just out there gunning mindlessly. If he felt the team needed him to go on a scoring tear in order to compete, then he would go on a scoring tear. Notice that his biggest games usually came against top tier opponents and on the biggest stages.

The only way that Bulls squad could even have the slightest prayer of competing with GOAT team candidate '86 Celtics was Jordan's 63 (which hasn't been touched by anyone in the playoffs in damn near 30 years).

[dynasty1978]

Most impressive is Kobe's 81.. because it's 81 points. That's a very good quarter of play ahead of any other scoring feat by Jordan, Kobe or Lebron.

Second most impressive is Kobe's 62 in 3 quarters. Then Jordan's are the next in line.
'
Lebron's scoring is probably the least impressive of all the 60 point games, but add in his other stats, and they make it more impressive. Dude did everything.

It's not 60, but Kobe's 56 in 3 quarters is up there as well (2002 vs. Memphis).

56 points, 5 reb, 4 assists in 34 minutes
21-34 shooting 62% FG, 3-6 from 3, and 11-12 FT in a blowout win.
By the way, Memphis had 59 at the end of 3 quarters :lol

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/news/2002/01/14/grizzlies_lakers_ap/

[Yao Ming's Foot]

You Kobe Fans trying to downplay the Bobcat's Defense :facepalm

Drtg doesn't lie.

OP didn't post Drtg...... he posted Defensive ranking who is fine if we are talking about scoring performances within the same year.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Playoffs>>> Regular season. Kobe doesn't have a 60 point game in the playoffs and 1 50 point game.

I would bet Kobe has a higher percentage of 50 pts + games against teams of equivalent defensive rating or worse in the playoffs as Michael Jordan.

[jzek]

Kobe exposed again :oldlol:

[SamuraiSWISH]

The only way to truly compare players across eras is to examine how they dominated the competition in front of them during their time.

As we've said numerous times Drtg is flawed and can't be relied exclusively on to determine the quality of an opponent, or compared acoss eras. Variables like pace play a large factor.

Would anyone dare claim the 60's, and 70's was the greatest defensive era in basketball? Their Drtg would imply that though.

The yearly defensive ranking is arguably more important. Because prime Kobe can't go up against the '93 Knicks, and prime MJ didn't face the '08 Celtics. Prime LeBron can't face the Bad Boy Pistons.

Also, the other side of the ball is equally important. Making an offensive juggernaut work on the other end can zap energy to score from a superstar.

Why don't we just look at team record as the BEST most accurate account of a team's true quality. Wins, and Losses.

Look at the absolute atrocious, bottom feeders of the league that Kobe put the near entire majority of his high scoring games against. It's kind of a tell tale sign right there. Not that he isn't an all-time great scorer, but he took advantage of meek competition.

The 2014 Bobcats are better than all those teams Kobe dropped 60+ on, sans the 2006 Mavericks.