P. George 23 ppg on 44%

[SamuraiSWISH]

Impressive? Superstar? Thoughts ... where did the hype machine go?

:biggums:

[JohnFreeman]

He isn't a superstar

[DMAVS41]

Impressive? Superstar? Thoughts ... where did the hype machine go?

:biggums:


I don't get the hate. 23/6/4 on 57% TS while providing truly elite wing defense while being the best player on a team that is likely to win 60 or more games.

Depends on your definition of superstar, but the dude is a great player.

Seems like a very similar season to the one Rose had in 11 when he won MVP...objectively there isn't much of a difference really. 25/8/4 on 55% TS while not being close to George defensively.

Both guys flanked by a great defensive supporting cast that is inept on offense at times. Seems like the main difference is the narrative and the fact that Lebron/Durant are having such great seasons.

[Milbuck]

It was pretty obvious from the start of the season that there was no way he'd be able to sustain his level over the course of an 82 game season. This has happened way, way too many times for it to be a surprise.

That being said, what he's done over the season, even with his significant cooling down period, has been very impressive. He's probably the 3rd best 2-way perimeter player, which isn't too shabby.

[ImKobe]

Putting up prime Michael Redd numbers

[Smoke117]

Impressive? Superstar? Thoughts ... where did the hype machine go?

:biggums:

I agree that Paul George is overrated as an offensive player, but knowing you and your Jordan **** sucking game...fu.ck you Swish. Paul George is easily the best SG/SF in the league with elite defense and good-very good offense. He is absolutely a star for how he affects an basketball game with his all around skills. That whole Carmelo vs George bullshit was a joke to me. There hasn't been a better 2 way player at the SF position since Scottie Pippen. Paul George is suffering from the fact that he was so hot early offensively, and now being punished for that while being easily the best two way wing player in the league BY FAR.

[Budadiiii]

Derrick Rose won the MVP award with similar numbers and similar circumstances. (Best record in the league) and was dubbed a bonafide superstar by the media.

And let's remember that D-Rose is no where near the defender that Paul is.

Just food for thought.

[Smoke117]

Derrick Rose won the MVP award with similar numbers and similar circumstances. (Best record in the league) and was dubbed a bonafide superstar by the media.

And let's remember that D-Rose is no where near the defender that Paul is.

Just food for thought.


No. He. Did. Not. Paul George is the best defensive wing player in the league. Derrick Rose was the premier scorer on a great defensive team. There is absolutely NO comparison, period.

[RedBlackAttack]

That's actually damn good. Are these statistics meant to diminish him as a player? People nowadays are a little too wrapped up in FG%... as if it is the be-all, end-all.

[DJ Leon Smith]

Putting up prime Michael Redd numbers

There's two ends to a basketball court.

[inclinerator]

the only way u win shooting that bad is relying on ur bigs for rebounds and defense

[Milbuck]

Derrick Rose won the MVP award with similar numbers and similar circumstances. (Best record in the league) and was dubbed a bonafide superstar by the media.

And let's remember that D-Rose is no where near the defender that Paul is.

Just food for thought.
He put up 25/4/8/1/1 on 45/33/86 shooting with 23.5 PER, while carrying his team's offense. Until he got shut down by Lebron in the conference finals, Rose that season WAS playing like a bonafide superstar. PG in the past two months or so has not looked like a bonafide superstar in the slightest.

[DMAVS41]

There's two ends to a basketball court.

And this is no joke...George is an elite defender. He goes hard every minute he's out there and he's the best wing defender in the league.

His team, the pacers, have by far the best defense in the league...it's not even remotely close.

[ImKobe]

There's two ends to a basketball court.

Ok, slightly poorer prime Pippen numbers?

[Rooster]

Derrick Rose won the MVP award with similar numbers and similar circumstances. (Best record in the league) and was dubbed a bonafide superstar by the media.

And let's remember that D-Rose is no where near the defender that Paul is.

Just food for thought.

And he's only 23. I don't think he had reach his ceiling yet but there are also injuries that can happen anytime. I want to see what he does when it matters. That's what separate great players.

[RedBlackAttack]

And he's only 23. I don't think he had reach his ceiling yet but there are also injuries that can happen anytime. I want to see what he does when it matters. That's what separate great players.
That's another thing people don't seem to be mentioning as much as they should. Paul George is incredibly well rounded for being that young. He's one of the best two-way players in the entire league and he's freaking 23.

The "hype" is warranted.

[DMAVS41]

He put up 25/4/8/1/1 on 45/33/86 shooting with 23.5 PER, while carrying his team's offense. Until he got shut down by Lebron in the conference finals, Rose that season WAS playing like a bonafide superstar. PG in the past two months or so has not looked like a bonafide superstar in the slightest.

Again...depends on how you define superstar

Those numbers are barely better than George's...and George is doing it on 57% TS vs 55% TS

And George is twice as good as rose was defensively. The Pacers actually get 2 points better on defense when George is on the floor and manages to improve the offense 7 points as well

The Bulls got 7.4 points WORSE on defense with Rose on the floor

Huge difference there...

[oarabbus]

OVER
RATED


I was saying Carmelo was better than him even back when PG was on fire. He hits the occasional clutch 3 but Bron/Durant > Melo > PG yo

[DJ Leon Smith]

Ok, slightly poorer prime Pippen numbers?

Which is a great compliment, especially if you look at Pippen's numbers at Paul George's age. (FUN FACT: Pippen was a 22-year-old rookie.)

[goldcrow]

Kobe-esque.

[RedBlackAttack]

Apparently, unless you're putting up 25+ points on 48+% FG, this board has no use for you... regardless of what the rest of your game looks like.

[Milbuck]

Again...depends on how you define superstar

Those numbers are barely better than George's...and George is doing it on 57% TS vs 55% TS

And George is twice as good as rose was defensively. The Pacers actually get 2 points better on defense when George is on the floor and manages to improve the offense 7 points as well

The Bulls got 7.4 points WORSE on defense with Rose on the floor

Huge difference there...
The Bulls' bench mob that year was tremendous defensively. With Brewer, Gibson, and Asik, they were a monstrous second unit defensively. It was on display quite often that season too. Whenever the starting lineup looked weak or stagnant, the 2nd unit would come in and bring the Bulls back into the game.

I don't know how much stock you can put into Rose's on-off defensive differential. Noah's impact didn't look much better statistically either, the numbers say that the Bulls got 4.4 points worse on defense with Noah on the floor, which is just silly. And if you look at Taj's numbers, the defense was 1.7 points better with him. Asik's impact was just absurd statistically, the defense got 9.7 points better with him on the floor. This by no means Noah was a below average defender. Similar thing for Rose. While he wasn't that good, he wasn't some total scrub defensively.

I agree that PG is substantially better defensively, but Derrick's deficiencies on that end of the floor are overstated.

Meanwhile, Rose's offensive impact was clearly better than PG's. The Bulls offense got 10.1 points better with Rose on the court, compared to PG's 7, as you said. It's not HUGE, but there is a pretty clear difference between 25ppg/7.7apg and 22.7ppg/3.5apg. PG's offensive burden is just on the level of Rose's.

It's pretty close, but I think Rose has a legitimate case for being considered a superstar that season, while I don't think PG has much of one. That doesn't mean he isn't a star player, or one of the best in the league.

[JebronLames]

Kobe scored 25 ppg on 45% in 2011 while shooting less threes than George without elite defense, and he was considered a superstar that year.

[DMAVS41]

The Bulls' bench mob that year was tremendous defensively. With Brewer, Gibson, and Asik, they were a monstrous second unit defensively. It was on display quite often that season too. Whenever the starting lineup looked weak or stagnant, the 2nd unit would come in and bring the Bulls back into the game.

I don't know how much stock you can put into Rose's on-off defensive differential. Noah's impact didn't look much better statistically either, the numbers say that the Bulls got 4.4 points worse on defense with Noah on the floor, which is just silly. And if you look at Taj's numbers, the defense was 1.7 points better with him. Asik's impact was just absurd statistically, the defense got 9.7 points better with him on the floor. This by no means Noah was a below average defender. Similar thing for Rose. While he wasn't that good, he wasn't some total scrub defensively.

I agree that PG is substantially better defensively, but Derrick's deficiencies on that end of the floor are overstated.

Meanwhile, Rose's offensive impact was clearly better than PG's. The Bulls offense got 10.1 points better with Rose on the court, compared to PG's 7, as you said. It's not HUGE, but there is a pretty clear difference between 25ppg/7.7apg and 22.7ppg/3.5apg. PG's offensive burden is just on the level of Rose's.

It's pretty close, but I think Rose has a legitimate case for being considered a superstar that season, while I don't think PG has much of one. That doesn't mean he isn't a star player, or one of the best in the league.

That makes my point for me. And I never said Rose was a bad defender...he's just not a high impact defender like George. You are exactly right that it was the defensive bench mob that made the Bulls such an elite defense and rebounding team.

What I'm saying is that PG is putting up very similar offensive numbers...while also playing far better defense.

Again, I don't know what you mean by "superstar"...if it's about off court shit...then so be it.

But if we are just talking about impact on the court...I see no reason why;

25/4/8 55% TS vs 23/6/4 57% TS...when one guy is a truly elite defensive player both in skills and impact...creates any sort of real gap

[moe94]

Apparently, unless you're putting up 25+ points on 48+% FG, this board has no use for you... regardless of what the rest of your game looks like.

23 PPG on 44 % doe

[no pun intended]

Not bad.

[RedBlackAttack]

23 PPG on 44 % doe
...is quite good. It's not easy to score 23 points in this league, let alone compliment it with elite defense.

Only nine players in the NBA score more than 23 points per game. Hell, only 20 players are able to score 20 or more points a night, regardless of FG%. Not many of said players are also elite defenders. And, not many of them are 23 or younger.

It's a rare combination.

[moe94]

...is quite good. It's not easy to score 23 points in this league, let alone compliment it with elite defense.

Only nine players in the NBA score more than 23 points per game. Hell, only 20 players are able to score 20 or more points a night, regardless of FG%. Not many of said players are also elite defenders. And, not many of them are 23 or younger.

It's a rare combination.

Rare enough to be the 3rd best player in the league?

[Budadiiii]

...is quite good. It's not easy to score 23 points in this league, let alone compliment it with elite defense.

Only nine players in the NBA score more than 23 points per game. Hell, only 20 players are able to score 20 or more points a night, regardless of FG%. Not many of said players are also elite defenders. And, not many of them are 23 or younger.

It's a rare combination.
For a guy who values two-way players you seem to be a little high on that Kyrie Irving fella.

Has he improved AT ALL defensively this year?

[Milbuck]

That makes my point for me. And I never said Rose was a bad defender...he's just not a high impact defender like George. You are exactly right that it was the defensive bench mob that made the Bulls such an elite defense and rebounding team.

What I'm saying is that PG is putting up very similar offensive numbers...while also playing far better defense.

Again, I don't know what you mean by "superstar"...if it's about off court shit...then so be it.

But if we are just talking about impact on the court...I see no reason why;

25/4/8 55% TS vs 23/6/4 57% TS...when one guy is a truly elite defensive player both in skills and impact...creates any sort of real gap
I'm not disputing that the Bulls had an elite defensive foundation, and I'm not trying to make the point that Derrick was this pivotal defense piece, or some high-impact defender. All I'm saying is that he wasn't Steve Nash out there.

A difference of 4 apg and 2 ppg isn't really that negligible, that's anywhere from 10-14 points a game. Their offensive games really aren't as close as you're making them out to be. The Pacers are 14-6 when PG scores less than 20 points. There was even an 8 point, 2-14 shooting gem that PG put up in 39 minutes...in a 27 point blowout. The Bulls look absolutely lost at times offensively without Rose.

[Budadiiii]

He put up 25/4/8/1/1 on 45/33/86 shooting with 23.5 PER, while carrying his team's offense. Until he got shut down by Lebron in the conference finals, Rose that season WAS playing like a bonafide superstar. PG in the past two months or so has not looked like a bonafide superstar in the slightest.
Who would you rather have.... 2011 D-Rose or current Paul George?

I'd take Paulina.

[RedBlackAttack]

Rare enough to be the 3rd best player in the league?
Definitely, depending on the circumstances. Not saying he is, but those numbers shouldn't be dismissed as quickly as some do... because of an obsession with FG%.

The Pacers have the best record in the league and George is their best two-way player. He deserves to be in that conversation.

You can have the best numbers of all-time, but if you aren't turning those into wins, people will care less and less about your FG%.

[Milbuck]

Who would you rather have.... 2011 D-Rose or current Paul George?

I'd take Paulina.
Close. But I'm taking healthy, MVP Rose.

[RedBlackAttack]

For a guy who values two-way players you seem to be a little high on that Kyrie Irving fella.

Has he improved AT ALL defensively this year?
Not that he has anything to do with this thread, but yeah... he has improved quite a bit, actually. He's another one that has ludicrous expectations thrown on him at a ridiculously young age, but that's for a different thread.

I'm not a "player fan," btw. You should know that by now. That's not how I roll and that's why I feel like I can discuss these things without bias. I truly don't care about player rankings.

[Budadiiii]

Close. But I'm taking healthy, MVP Rose.
That's fair.

D-Rose is on a different level offensively IMO but my neither of those guys are gonna win you a ring as 'the guy'

Would rather have Paul George for the fact that he fills holes on the defensive end and is pretty damn good on offense too.

[YouGotServed]

Overrated. People actually thought this guy was better than Harden. :oldlol:

[Budadiiii]

Not that he has anything to do with this thread, but yeah... he has improved quite a bit, actually. He's another one that has ludicrous expectations thrown on him at a ridiculously young age, but that's for a different thread.

I'm not a "player fan," btw. You should know that by now. That's not how I roll and that's why I feel like I can discuss these things without bias. I truly don't care about player rankings.
Sometimes I feel you are a little biased or at least you used to be.

I see nothing but posts from you now though.

Kyrie is literally the most talented offensive PG in the league. He has certain things you can't teach but dude is an arrogant POS IMO. I just wish he approached the game like Chris Paul or Steve Nash and truly became the leader that the Cavs desperately need.

[Milbuck]

That's fair.

D-Rose is on a different level offensively IMO but my neither of those guys are gonna win you a ring as 'the guy'

Would rather have Paul George for the fact that he fills holes on the defensive end and is pretty damn good on offense too.
I think it'd be tough for them to win, but I can't definitively say they could never do it.

Those Bulls teams were devastated by injuries. If old ass Boston could take Miami to 7 in 2012, who knows what could've happened if that Bulls team had a healthy Rose and Noah? With Bosh going down for a while that four headed monster of Noah/Boozer/Gibson/Asik could've been an absolute nightmare for Miami.

The Pacers aren't looking as scary as they did early in the season, but I still give them a decent shot at winning it all with PG as their #1. I think barring any injuries and with HCA, it'd be a tossup between them and Miami. I think the only team I could confidently say would beat Indy in a 7 game series is your Thunder.

I do agree that they're not the ideal #1 on a championship team. This is precisely why I want Melo to go to Chicago. I think Indy's stuck with PG as their #1, but that's not a bad position to be in considering how rapidly he's improved, and his young age.

[RedBlackAttack]

Sometimes I feel you are a little biased or at least you used to be.

I see nothing but posts from you now though.

Kyrie is literally the most talented offensive PG in the league. He has certain things you can't teach but dude is an arrogant POS IMO. I just wish he approached the game like Chris Paul or Steve Nash and truly became the leader that the Cavs desperately need.
His improved effort has been pretty evident on both ends of the floor in the last several months. More playmaking, less turnovers, better defense, more patient... It's starting to show up in his advanced statistics, too.

It won't happen over night, but the guy is 21 years old.

Kyrie's advanced stats over his first three years:

http://i57.tinypic.com/drdua0.jpg

Despite the tremendous amount of flack he has taken this year, his usage percentage is down, turnovers are down, he still has a PER over 20 and both his offensive/defensive ratings are trending in the right direction... as are his win shares.

[Dragonyeuw]

Impressive? Superstar? Thoughts ... where did the hype machine go?

:biggums:

The hype was due to George's early season play combined with the Pacers bursting out of the gate. Then Kevin Durant in January and part of February happened( prior to Westbrooks return) and that shifted all hype and attention away from him. And now, Lebron's recent surge has shifted some of the hype from Durant.

[kurple]

I don't get the hate. 23/6/4 on 57% TS while providing truly elite wing defense while being the best player on a team that is likely to win 60 or more games.
this

the lebron era is making people think way to much about FG%

[UK2K]

His defense is overrated, he benefits from excellent help defense at the other 4 positions and a C that gets away with the verticality rule only he gets to use.

The last two months his offense has been inconsistent and inefficient.

Melo is a far superior player.

Not to say George isnt good, hes just not there YET.

[airchibundo507]

His defense is overrated, he benefits from excellent help defense at the other 4 positions and a C that gets away with the verticality rule only he gets to use.

The last two months his offense has been inconsistent and inefficient.

Melo is a far superior player.

Not to say George isnt good, hes just not there YET.

we have a winner, folks. nothing else to see

[HylianNightmare]

dude is a star, just because he didn't keep his numbers up from his very hot start doesn't diminish that to me at all

[PsychoBe]

i said it once and i'll say it again. pg is what 03 kobe would be if kobe was purely focused on the defensive end. pg is the only player on the pacers squad who can literally play game-clinching defense as i can recall on a hawks game on the road he stole a pass and ran the length of the court to slam it home and secure a win. his defense cannot be stated enough. offensively he is a far better shooter off the dribble than he used to be, and he is a great dunker and a better finisher than he was last year, but again, he's only 23 years old and is what? in his 3rd or 4th year in the league? in one or two more years he'll be a bonafide superstar in no time. but for now just accept him for who he is.

he is a defender than can score, not a scorer than can defend.

[Meticode]

PG putting up some 03-04 Kobe numbers there.

[noob cake]

His improved effort has been pretty evident on both ends of the floor in the last several months. More playmaking, less turnovers, better defense, more patient... It's starting to show up in his advanced statistics, too.

It won't happen over night, but the guy is 21 years old.

Kyrie's advanced stats over his first three years:

http://i57.tinypic.com/drdua0.jpg

Despite the tremendous amount of flack he has taken this year, his usage percentage is down, turnovers are down, he still has a PER over 20 and both his offensive/defensive ratings are trending in the right direction... as are his win shares.

Win shares is a crap stat when comparing two players from different teams or teams with different amount of wins. You can only get win shares by winning. There are maybe only 2-3 players in the league that can lift their team from lotto to playoff. The most talented pure scorer in the league, Melo, can't even do it.

[bisk]

He's a bit better version of Iggy. Had a nice run, was hyped thanks to the media, but nothing too spectacular statswise throughout a whole season should be expected from him.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

Overrated. People actually thought this guy was better than Harden. :oldlol:
he is. and its not close either:biggums: :wtf:

[Jetballer24]

People that doubt his defense should of saw what happened to stephen curry down the stretch when he defended him. 3 turnovers and 0 points that helped the pacers go on a 12-0 run to tie the game.

[Mass Debator]

He's long and lengthy on a team that is long and lengthy. He's in a great system and he fits right in. Give him another year. I see him maxing out at 26ppg on the same %. He needs to tighten up his handles and drive the basketball more. 5.7 FT shots per game is not superstar material. He needs 8+.

[KG215]

The most talented pure scorer in the league, Melo, can't even do it.
Try again.

[DJ Leon Smith]

His defense is overrated, he benefits from excellent help defense at the other 4 positions and a C that gets away with the verticality rule only he gets to use.

The last two months his offense has been inconsistent and inefficient.

Melo is a far superior player.

Not to say George isnt good, hes just not there YET.

Melo is a far superior player who can't lead his team to sniff the playoffs in the East where the 7th and 8th seeds will be mad they made the playoffs because they were trying to get a lottery pick?

Nothing against Melo because the Knicks stink, but this is ridiculous logic.

[Rik Smits' Hair]

Oh look. Indiana lost again so we need more threads like this. Luckily it hasn't happened much this season.

[AlphaWolf24]

NB4 INDY wins the Title PG24 is the FMVP.

[mentallooser]

He's young and it is very good numbers. Durant and Lebron are really spoiling people in terms of efficiency. He isn't an all-time great player yet, but he is a top player that plays hard on both sides and it the best player on his team.

[Solefade]

PG would be a superstar in the 90's and early 2000's


not right now though not yet

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Not a superstar. Similar level to 1999-00 Kobe.

[UK2K]

Melo is a far superior player who can't lead his team to sniff the playoffs in the East where the 7th and 8th seeds will be mad they made the playoffs because they were trying to get a lottery pick?

Nothing against Melo because the Knicks stink, but this is ridiculous logic.

Whats wrong with the logic? Put Melo on Indy and they are much better. Put PG on NY and they suck, more so then they do now.

PG benefits from his great team. As individuals, none of them are special, but as a team they are outstanding.

Melo is a far superior player. There is no way around it. His season stats say it, if you wanna look at the past month or so, they aren't even in the same league.

PG is a great player. #4 SF behind Bron, Durant, and Melo (if you really consider any of them 3's), but there is a big gap between those top 3 and PG.

Honestly in a year or two he will probably be better, but his team will be worse off (no David West, no Lance unless they go over the cap, Hibbert may even be gone).

Again, PG is a product of his team. Switch the two players, and one team gets better while one team gets worse. There's no arguing that.

[Milbuck]

i said it once and i'll say it again. pg is what 03 kobe would be if kobe was purely focused on the defensive end. pg is the only player on the pacers squad who can literally play game-clinching defense as i can recall on a hawks game on the road he stole a pass and ran the length of the court to slam it home and secure a win. his defense cannot be stated enough. offensively he is a far better shooter off the dribble than he used to be, and he is a great dunker and a better finisher than he was last year, but again, he's only 23 years old and is what? in his 3rd or 4th year in the league? in one or two more years he'll be a bonafide superstar in no time. but for now just accept him for who he is.

he is a defender than can score, not a scorer than can defend.
You stated pretty much the exact same thing in another thread about PG, and it's still wrong today..I'm gonna give the exact same response I gave you last time.

He's not 03 Kobe, it's not even close.

Kobe was already an elite defender WHILE averaging 30/7/6 on 45/38/84 shooting? That wasn't the old broken down Kobe of recent seasons, it was Kobe in his athletic prime when he was a lockdown man defender and an offensive beast.

The gap in defense between current PG and '03 Kobe is really not that large. PG's better and more versatile, but man-to-man Kobe was not far off. But the gap in offense is MASSIVE. Even if Kobe focused more on defense to match PG's defense, we're still talking about two totally different classes of players.

[Quickening]

Kobe career numbers but George plays far better defence consistently, top 10 ever? :confusedshrug:

[StrongLurk]

Paul George is still 2 years away from being a true superstar. George is barely a top 10 player in the league.

[hitmanyr2k]

Whats wrong with the logic? Put Melo on Indy and they are much better. Put PG on NY and they suck, more so then they do now.

PG benefits from his great team. As individuals, none of them are special, but as a team they are outstanding.

Melo is a far superior player. There is no way around it. His season stats say it, if you wanna look at the past month or so, they aren't even in the same league.

PG is a great player. #4 SF behind Bron, Durant, and Melo (if you really consider any of them 3's), but there is a big gap between those top 3 and PG.

Honestly in a year or two he will probably be better, but his team will be worse off (no David West, no Lance unless they go over the cap, Hibbert may even be gone).

Again, PG is a product of his team. Switch the two players, and one team gets better while one team gets worse. There's no arguing that.


How do you know this? You'd think people would learn by now that you can't say just say throw Player A on this team and it's all going to work. That's shit logic. Stats don't account for chemistry, coaching or the mental make-up of a team. And Melo on Indiana certainly doesn't cure their point guard woes. It could all go to shit for all you know.

[Jailblazers7]

He is a very good player that hasn't taken the leap to superstar yet...which is fine for someone who is 23 and came into the league very raw. He has gotten better every year he has been in the league. I bet he has 3-4 prime years where he is, without question, a superstar.

[Heavincent]

Overrated. People actually thought this guy was better than Harden. :oldlol:

He's definitely better than Haren. No question.

[UK2K]

How do you know this? You'd think people would learn by now that you can't say just say throw Player A on this team and it's all going to work. That's shit logic. Stats don't account for chemistry, coaching or the mental make-up of a team. And Melo on Indiana certainly doesn't cure their point guard woes. It could all go to shit for all you know.
Because the difference in their defensive abilities (minimal) doesn't make up for the huge advantage in Melos offensive capabilities.

The Pacers lose cause they cant score. They have plenty of defense. They dont have offense. Melo is an offensive juggernaut, PG is not.

But youre right, maybe Melo doesn't like his house in Indy or maybe there's a trainer he doesnt get along with on the Pacers staff.

Team chemistry has nothing to do with skill. Barring all MENTAL, Emotional issues, Melo makes the Pacers better.

[AintNoSunshine]

not a superstar. sorry.

[JohnMax]

10 to 15 years ago, he would be considered one because we didn't have superstars like Lebron, Durant, Griffin shooting over 50 percent. Instead we had scrubs like Kobe, Iverson, McGrady all shooting under 45 percent.

[AnaheimLakers24]

value to their tesm in order

durcant
griffin
george

[leMVP]

Some one brings griffin's numbers, that's a true superstar.

[All Net]

not a superstar. sorry.

Maybe not yet, but is certainly in the convo in terms of top 8-10 range.

[DMAVS41]

Maybe not yet, but is certainly in the convo in terms of top 8-10 range.

This...superstar seems so arbitrary

Melo is definitely a superstar...and I don't think Melo is better than George.

[fpliii]

Dude is so underrated it's not even funny.

[Qwyjibo]

Ahhh the ultimate sign of a troll thread. OP uses a stat that is meaningless on its own (what about 3pt%? What about FTA and FT%?) to imply something idiotic and then doesn't post again in the thread.

Way to get reeled in, guys.

[RedBlackAttack]

Win shares is a crap stat when comparing two players from different teams or teams with different amount of wins. You can only get win shares by winning. There are maybe only 2-3 players in the league that can lift their team from lotto to playoff. The most talented pure scorer in the league, Melo, can't even do it.
I'm not comparing players from two different teams, though. I'm comparing him to himself from previous years. The actual numbers aren't important. The fact that they're all going in the right direction is.

And, you're right... not many guys can single handedly lift their team from lottery to playoffs, and even fewer who are 21 or younger. That's why I said... expectations were out of hand for him this season.

People expected a little too much a little too soon from a team this young. We've gotten off topic, though.

[navy]

Dude is so underrated it's not even funny.
He was being compared to Lebron and Durant in November. Just backlash.

[KyrieTheFuture]

I used to think I wasn't biased, then I realized that I talk too much **** about Hibbert and George and I've gotta credit one of them for this team's success...I'll choose George. He's a top 5 (not 3 IMO) and I just can't bring myself to support Hibbert despite the fact that I like him as person way more than George.

[Levity]

PG was pretty bad for a stretch of games during that whole baby mama drama. but post allstar break, hes been playing at near the same level as he did to start the season.

you fans these days are holding players to ridiculous standards.

[Legends66NBA7]

you fans these days are holding players to ridiculous standards.

I wouldn't say that's a bad thing. If the media wants to portray these guys up to high standards, I think the fans should too.

[buddha]

if he is a superstar he will go for 60 tonight against the bobcats.

[PsychoBe]

You stated pretty much the exact same thing in another thread about PG, and it's still wrong today..I'm gonna give the exact same response I gave you last time.

He's not 03 Kobe, it's not even close.

Kobe was already an elite defender WHILE averaging 30/7/6 on 45/38/84 shooting? That wasn't the old broken down Kobe of recent seasons, it was Kobe in his athletic prime when he was a lockdown man defender and an offensive beast.

The gap in defense between current PG and '03 Kobe is really not that large. PG's better and more versatile, but man-to-man Kobe was not far off. But the gap in offense is MASSIVE. Even if Kobe focused more on defense to match PG's defense, we're still talking about two totally different classes of players.

no you got it all wrong. i'd never compare pg to 03' kobe as a whole, just strictly on the defensive end. offensively pg obviously was not on kobe's level to say the least, but the difference in pg's defense vs 03' kobe's was versatility and the ability to play the passing lanes a bit better (but 03' kobe was capable of pick-pockets during dribble moves), regardless, i was only making a comparison because pg hangs his hat on his defense, not his offense.

again, he's a defender that can score, not a scorer than can defend.

[Dro]

PG, worst player on the planet. He had 2 points. He might as well retire now. 1 game makes a season. /ish

[Akrazotile]

Derrick Rose won the MVP award with similar numbers and similar circumstances. (Best record in the league) and was dubbed a bonafide superstar by the media.

And let's remember that D-Rose is no where near the defender that Paul is.

Just food for thought.


But Rose hangs in the air and contorts his body on field goal attempts. This is a very important attribute for players who wish to have ESPN start a hype campaign on their behalf.

[Akrazotile]

I used to think I wasn't biased, then I realized that I talk too much **** about Hibbert and George and I've gotta credit one of them for this team's success...I'll choose George. He's a top 5 (not 3 IMO) and I just can't bring myself to support Hibbert despite the fact that I like him as person way more than George.


This has to be one of the most stupid posts Ive ever seen someone have the guts to click submit on.

[Dro]

This has to be one of the most stupid posts Ive ever seen someone have the guts to click submit on.
Don't mind him. He does nothing but hate on the Pacers. No clue why he feels forced to choose. He should just continue doing what he does.

[buddha]

if he is a superstar he will go for 60 tonight against the bobcats.

:oldlol:

Paul responds with a very formidable 2 :applause:

[HoopsFanNumero1]

:oldlol:

Paul responds with a very formidable 2 :applause:

Close enough

[secund2nun]

Good player (not a superstar or even star though), but was massively overrated. He is still a bit overrated, no nowhere as overrated as 4 months ago. He is shooting 43.4% now.