Where does Lebron's court vision and playmaking rank all time?

[Milbuck]

For me he's top 10, but I don't think he's ahead of

Magic
Stockton
Nash
Zeke
CP3
Kidd

Which puts him in the 7-10 range all-time for me. What do you guys think? And who would you definitively rank ahead of him?

[JohnFreeman]

Top 10. In my opinion he is a better pass then CP3

[Le Shaqtus]

Top 10. In my opinion he is a better pass then CP3

Tough call

[JohnFreeman]

Tough call
It is, but I feel CP3 gets a tad overrated sometimes

[Keno]

chris paul himself said lebron is a taller version of him that can do much much more. i have lebron number six, you can also argue top five.

[BuffaloBill]

is blake griffin a top 10 passing pf of all time?



http://giant.gfycat.com/MisguidedSerpentineBooby.gif

[JohnFreeman]

is blake griffin a top 10 passing pf of all time?



http://giant.gfycat.com/MisguidedSerpentineBooby.gif
That travel

[BuffaloBill]

That travel



*crab dribble

[Young X]

Paul leads the league in assists and assist to turnover ratio with one of the highest AST% of all time, Bron could never come close to doing that. Stop dickriding.

[kennethgriffin]

if his play making was top 10 all time. he'd be a 10 time champion by now

give any 6 of those guys you mentioned lebrons body/speed/athleticism and theyed all have 10 championships

is this thread for real?

lebrons a really good play maker..... compared to kobe or jordan :confusedshrug:

yeah compared to guys who were strictly deadly assassins... lebron looks real good

those 2 more apg is fancy shmancy :applause:


but compared to guys whos entire job was play making? come the f*ck on bro

lebron is 29th all time in APG

and thats without a tail end of career dip like other retired legends... that 6.9 will drop to 6.3 before hes finished. which would be right behind larry bird at #43 all time

this is dumb

/thread

[Boarder Patrol]

Top 15 or so. He's great at drive and kick, can do some nice outlet/full court stuff, but I'd take a lot of guys over him as pure playmakers.

[Warfan]

For me he's top 10, but I don't think he's ahead of

Magic
Stockton
Nash
Zeke
CP3
Kidd

Which puts him in the 7-10 range all-time for me. What do you guys think? And who would you definitively rank ahead of him?

Some other guys I can think of that are up there are Pistol and Bird, and there are others as well...

Id probably have the guys you listed above Lebron.

[NumberSix]

Top 5

[BuffaloBill]

Top 5


top 5 right now maybe. or top 5 non pg. top 5 all time? lol

[BuffaloBill]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DZO-1QMDaQ



this guy is top 10

[Keno]

lmaooo at idiots in this thread using assists per game to prove he doesn't have great play making skills and court vision. just watch the games for yourself, you can see with your own two eyes he has phenomenal court vision and play making skills. i'd argue it's the best in the league today.

in case you forgot, lebron is third all time in points per game. third to only jordan and wilt. if lebron was a full time point guard, he would be third all time in assists per game. he's averaging seven assists per game for his career on top of that twenty seven points per game.

[buddha]

is blake griffin a top 10 passing pf of all time?



http://giant.gfycat.com/MisguidedSerpentineBooby.gif

classic chris paul, playing hot potato with the ball when he has an open shot.

[aj1987]

if his play making was top 10 all time. he'd be a 10 time champion by now

give any 6 of those guys you mentioned lebrons body/speed/athleticism and theyed all have 10 championships

is this thread for real?

lebrons a really good play maker..... compared to kobe or jordan :confusedshrug:

yeah compared to guys who were strictly deadly assassins... lebron looks real good

those 2 more apg is fancy shmancy :applause:


but compared to guys whos entire job was play making? come the f*ck on bro

lebron is 29th all time in APG

and thats without a tail end of career dip like other retired legends... that 6.9 will drop to 6.3 before hes finished. which would be right behind larry bird at #43 all time

this is dumb

/thread
Ignoring the hypothetical scenarios that you're presenting, presently, LeBron is 29th all time in APG. That's actually extremely incredible, considering the fact that LeBron also averaged almost 28 PPG and takes 20 shots a game.
How about a different scenario? LeBron decreasing his scoring and becomes a facilitator first. Increases his APG to ~8, which puts him in the top 15. Drops his PPG to ~25. That would be 25/8/8 over his career.

[noob cake]

Only Paul has a case over him in terms of vision right now.

Top 15 court vision all time lock, possibly top 10 all time. Could go higher if he played PG full time instead of trying to score, ie more practice.

[Keno]

and thats without a tail end of career dip like other retired legends... that 6.9 will drop to 6.3 before hes finished. which would be right behind larry bird at #43 all time

this is dumb

/thread

stop it. when lebron loses his athleticism at age thirty four, he will then move to point guard full time and average twenty five points per game - eight rebounds per game - eight point five assists per game. his points per game will take a small hit but not by much since he will be in his sixteenth season. and his assists per game for his career will go up to nine a game when it's all said and done.

thirty thousand plus career points, ten thousand plus career rebounds, ten thousand plus career assists. only player in nba history to accomplish this.

[Lamar Odumbb]

Im not impressed with his passing to be honest. Im not a hater, I actually like Lebron but not Wade. Lebron is a willing passer but he does not posess a significantly better court vision than Penny Hardaway, Manu, Kyrie Irving, Chris Webber, or Mark Price.

[aj1987]

Im not impressed with his passing to be honest. Im not a hater, I actually like Lebron but not Wade. Lebron is a willing passer but he does not posess a significantly better court vision than Penny Hardaway, Manu, Kyrie Irving, Chris Webber, or Mark Price.
I legit laughed out loud.

[Keno]

Im not impressed with his passing to be honest. Im not a hater, I actually like Lebron but not Wade. Lebron is a willing passer but he does not posess a significantly better court vision than Penny Hardaway, Manu, Kyrie Irving, Chris Webber, or Mark Price.

too easy to spot out the trolls on this forum.

[Lamar Odumbb]

too easy to spot out the trolls on this forum.

One of the sites biggest trolls is so blissfully ignorant about being a troll he cant even realize how much of a hypocrite he is

[JohnFreeman]

Im not impressed with his passing to be honest. Im not a hater, I actually like Lebron but not Wade. Lebron is a willing passer but he does not posess a significantly better court vision than Penny Hardaway, Manu, Kyrie Irving, Chris Webber, or Mark Price.
:biggums:

[Keno]

One of the sites biggest trolls is so blissfully ignorant about being a troll he cant even realize how much of a hypocrite he is

who's trolling? point out where i am trolling lmaoooooooo.

[Lamar Odumbb]

who's trolling? point out where i am trolling lmaoooooooo.

Why bother, everyone knows you do nothing but troll and then feign ignorance to the fact.

[JohnFreeman]

Why bother, everyone knows you do nothing but troll and then feign ignorance to the fact.
Look at the statement you made before, and tell us who the troll is.

[Lamar Odumbb]

Look at the statement you made before, and tell us who the troll is.

Its called an opinion. A troll would say something like Players make better passes at Lebrons mom and they score easily.

I just said Lebrons passing isnt significantly better than a Mark Price, Penny Hardway, or Chris Webber.

[JohnFreeman]

Its called an opinion. A troll would say something like Players make better passes at Lebrons mom and they score easily.

I just said Lebrons passing isnt significantly better than a Mark Price, Penny Hardway, or Chris Webber.
I am a Kings fan, and Webber was not better then LeBron. There is such a thing as a bad opinion

[SexSymbol]

Not top 30, on pure vision he's behind Kendall Marshall and Andre Miller and variour other no-names.

[Igotsoul4u]

He's top 10 for sure, but his all around game is the impressive part. Defense, rebounds, dunks, steals, assists. It's all there in addition to court vision.

[Lamar Odumbb]

I am a Kings fan, and Webber was not better then LeBron. There is such a thing as a bad opinion

You cant read huh. I said not significantly better which means he is better but not so much that I notice it like I notice how much better a passer Nash is compared to Westbrook.

[aj1987]

http://i42.tinypic.com/v59xe8.gif
http://sportsgif.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/LeBron-James-Behind-The-Back-Pass-GIF.gif
http://media.giphy.com/media/5w9YUwcMoo2xW/giphy.gif
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2675253/lepass2.gif
https://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/835579408.gif?1390759986
http://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/lebronpass.gif?w=1000
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2598889/lemvpgoathof.gif
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/836590/LeBron_Tip.gif
http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/52c2ddcdecad04a149613ad0/lebron-tap-pass-amazing.gif

The best pass of all-time:

http://i.minus.com/iosoV56nKiXjg.gif

[diamenz]

top ten.

[ImKobe]

top 10, a poor man's Magic Johnson in terms of court vision & playmaking.

[kamil]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DZO-1QMDaQ



this guy is top 10

Playing against Rondo would be a pain in the ass, the guy's go so many tricks to use on his opponents. And I agree, his court vision is stellar.

[salwan]

Playing against Rondo would be a pain in the ass, the guy's go so many tricks to use on his opponents. And I agree, his court vision is stellar.

I love this one from a few weeks ago.

https://vine.co/v/MKmKX36VYPi

[pauk]

His passing skills, vision is of the non PG's only matched by Larry Bird, i have seen most Bird games (who is a notch above Lebron on my all-time favorite player list) and ive seen even more Lebron games and those guys used to pull some of the most ridicilous passes i ever seen on a regular basis, some passes ive not seen even Magic Johnson make.

Point here is i have Bird in my top 10 ever in terms of strictly raw passing skills/vision and so yea... thats where i think Lebron's ability in that department belongs aswell...

No pun intended to some awesome PGs i would be putting Bird/Lebron (and Pete Maravich!) above... but assists per game is more of a thing based on how much you pass & how much you handle the ball, i dont consider it the #1 priority when measuring strictly ones ability to make creative passes & any passes with success.

[Im so nba'd out]

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2675253/lepass2.gif
this is such a amazing pass not gona lie...like how the f*** did he even see him

[kamil]

I love this one from a few weeks ago.

https://vine.co/v/MKmKX36VYPi

LOL, how the hell did a rather slow pass like that get by two defenders?

Oh wait, its the Lakers, they suck. lol

[Dragonyeuw]

His passing skills, vision is of the non PG's only matched by Larry Bird, i have seen most Bird games (who is a notch above Lebron on my all-time favorite player list) and ive seen even more Lebron games and those guys used to pull some of the most ridicilous passes i ever seen on a regular basis, some passes ive not seen even Magic Johnson make.

Point here is i have Bird in my top 10 ever in terms of strictly raw passing skills/vision and so yea... thats where i think Lebron's ability in that department belongs aswell...

No pun intended to some awesome PGs i would be putting Bird/Lebron (and Pete Maravich!) above... but assists per game is more of a thing based on how much you pass & how much you handle the ball, i dont consider it the #1 priority when measuring strictly ones ability to make creative passes & any passes with success.

Thank you for being the only person in this thread to give Larry Bird the props he deserves.

[entropy35]

Lebron James isn't an all time great passer/play maker. He is very good for this height and position though. There are so many other lesser known players who have better court vision and play making skills.

[pauk]

Lebron James isn't an all time great passer/play maker. He is very good for this height and position though. There are so many other lesser known players who have better court vision and play making skills.

Would love to know who you think so many of those are?

[SexSymbol]

Would love to know who you think so many of those are?
Kendall Marshall
Fat Lever
Andre Miller

[pauk]

Kendall Marshall
Fat Lever
Andre Miller

Are you serious?

[JohnFreeman]

Kendall Marshall
Fat Lever
Andre Miller
:milton

[PsychoBe]

Are you serious?

fat lever and andre miller were stellar passers what are you saying? i havent seen much of kendall marshall so i won't comment on him.

[Totspurs]

Not better (or not much better) than Ricky Rubio, Rajon Rondo, Manu Gin

[Marlo_Stanfield]

[QUOTE=Totspurs]Not better (or not much better) than Ricky Rubio, Rajon Rondo, Manu Gin

[SexSymbol]

lost my shit especially on Jose Calderon:roll: :biggums:
Calderon is one of the best, most efficent passers ever.

[SexSymbol]

Are you serious?
Yes, completely.
I'm ranking court vision and passing

[Marlo_Stanfield]

Calderon is one of the best, most efficent passers ever.
his passing skill and courtvision is NOWHERE close to bron lmfao:roll: :roll:

[BuffaloBill]

Only Paul has a case over him in terms of vision right now.

Top 15 court vision all time lock, possibly top 10 all time. Could go higher if he played PG full time instead of trying to score, ie more practice.


i guess rondo died

[red1]

You're buggin if you think his passing/court vision is top 10 all-time. There are tons of non-hof point guards who are on the same level

[red1]

Best combination of scoring and passing then yes he is top 10. But purely passing? More like top 50

[SexSymbol]

his passing skill and courtvision is NOWHERE close to bron lmfao:roll: :roll:
His passing is actually way better, he rarely messes up passes. He just doesn't try to make flashy behind the back passes.
Flash over substance makes the world a worse place to live in.

[Keno]

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2675253/lepass2.gif
this is such a amazing pass not gona lie...like how the f*** did he even see him

i agree. lebron is the only player in the league that can make that pass. his combination of court vision and strength, no point guard even comes close to lebrons strength.

[ArbitraryWater]

Top 10 Passer and Playmaker

[SHAQisGOAT]

In terms of peaks, not above:

Magic
Stockton
Nash
Isiah
Kidd
Oscar
Rondo
Bird
CP3
Kevin Johnson

and then "only" a few others...

So he definitely "falls" under top20, which is great. Top10, like some have said here, is too much of a stretch.

If we're talking about passing-skills, he can't do it quite like a dude like Maravich, but Pistol tried the most difficult, most flashy stuff instead of the right move, Lebron's pretty much the opposite and that deserves credit though.
Bron can handle the rock, has all the athleticism to go along with skill, demands plenty of doubles, has really good court-vision and he's willing to pass.

[K Xerxes]

Hard to say. I think only Bird was superior in this aspect in terms of non-PGs, but there have obviously been a hell of a lot of PGs that have to specialise in playmaking and did a great job of it. Lebron has to shoulder more in terms of scoring, rebounding and defending, so it's sort of an unfair question.

[Miller for 3]

Top 40 at best? Anyone can be a good passer, all you have to do is throw it to superior players. Passers are betas, scorers are alphas

[Marlo_Stanfield]

who doesnt have lebron in top 10 passing and playmaking all time is a clearly delusional troll and should be banned:coleman:

[Totspurs]

who doesnt have lebron in top 10 passing and playmaking all time is a clearly delusional troll and should be banned:coleman:
Lebron's scoring helps his passing, and viceversa. If we blend scoring and passing, he isn't only top 10, he is top 3. But strictly as a passer and floor general, he isn't a better passer than Ricky Rubio. At all.

[Rocketswin2013]

Well, there's certain guys he's just not better than. So let's get this out of the way.
CP3
Magic
Stockton
K. Johnson
Thomas
Nash
Kidd
Rondo
Steph Curry
Big O
Bob Cousy
Mark Jackson
Gary Payton

Ok. That's out of the way. And I'd give him the edge on most shooting guards. MJ and West are some exceptions. Prime Dwade was LeBron level at playmaking. Honestly, he's no better than Pippen or Bird at playmaking. That's just his range. He's top 25-30 all-time.

[Rocketswin2013]

Saying LeBron is a GOAT playmaker on 8 APG at best on 3-4 TO's is like saying Kobe is GOAT scorer with 35 PPG and 45% shooting. It's exactly the same. LeBron is not that efficient of a playmaker. If he ever got up to 12 APG, his TO's would be record-breaking.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

Saying LeBron is a GOAT playmaker on 8 APG at best on 3-4 TO's is like saying Kobe is GOAT scorer with 35 PPG and 45% shooting. It's exactly the same. LeBron is not that efficient of a playmaker. If he ever got up to 12 APG, his TO's would be record-breaking.
not if he would play a real PG position:facepalm
remember all time great PGs nearly all had 25 PPG high efficency scorers on their teams too to rack up assists:coleman:

[SpecialQue]

Between 62-54, all time.

[sd3035]

Lebron is good at rifling passes cross court on a rope because he's much stronger than most scrawny midget point guards. Other than that, he's a decent playmaker with average point guard vision and passing skills