Football/soccer all-time draft tournament(organized matchups)

[waseem780]

I will post each match-up , everyone votes , a match-up finishes when the total amount of votes for that match-up reaches [COLOR="Blue"]9

Troll votes will not be counted. Example Budadii

Please post the name of your vote in Bold

Due to blablabla not posting his formation/tactics he is disqualified , Bosnian Sajo will go up against RagaZ and b1imtf and EnoughSaid's matchup will be counted as a first round matchup

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g258/waseemabushagor/alltimetournamentlong_zps50bf7fe6.png


b1imtf beat EnoughSaid last match-up

Imagine beat Andrew Wiggins

Dunksby beat kc16 (5-4)

Overdrive beat Kobesfinger (5-0)

Waseem780 beat Trollsmasher (5-0)

Bosnian Sajo beat RagaZ (5-0)

alenleomessi beat Mr Clutch Melo (5-0)

Jasi beat kurple (5-2)

[waseem780]

Here they are So far , Wiggins 4 , Imagine 2 , finishes when we get in 10 votes

ANDREW WIGGINS
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g258/waseemabushagor/iijj_zpsf35f96ec.png



Dida
Wim Suurbier - Vincent Kompany - Ruud Krol - Marcelo
Lothar Matthaus - Arturo Vidal
Figo - Raul - Ze Roberto
Romario

Manager - Johan Cruyff

while cruyff favors the 4-3-3, I think his total football approach would work fine in a 4-2-3-1 given the players at his disposal. for the cb pairing, i believe kompany and krol would compliment each other well. kompany would be the brute who dominates in the air and with his physical strength while krol would lead the line and distribute out of the back with passes into the midfield and precise, defense-splitting long balls over the top of defense. marcelo and suurbier would alternate bombing the flanks and constantly provide overlapping runs and bolster the attack.

matthaus would break up play, distribute the ball all over the wings, and provide a shield for the cbs. vidal would function in the box to box role and help matthaus command the midfield. vidal’s knack for scoring goals from distance and popping up around the box would keep defenders occupied.

ze roberto would provide excellent service down the left flank and fine coverage defensively. this would allow marcelo to overlap as he pleases without having to worry about being exposed on that side of the pitch. figo, raul, and romario would constantly rotate in and out of their positions and be a nightmare for defenders to deal with because of their amazing interplay. goals, goals, and more goals.

my team doesn't have the flashiest names but i think they all would play well off each other and have the versatility to excel in total football.


IAMGINE

Manager - Marcello Lippi

Team is found on the idea of possession and heavy passing philosophy. Kind of like Tiki Taka but with the focus on attack. So maybe more like total football but not quite. Anyways, Lippi will figure it out, why else would he be hired eh?

Offensive - Offense should be somewhat okay with the trio of Best - Puskas - Messi.

Midfield - The star of the team. Gianni Rivera was a genius playmaker and perhaps the best passer of all time. Kinda forgotten so look him up. Didi was the brain of Brazil's 4-2-4 formation, the man Pele admired so much he said Didi's better than him. Look guys, Pele's an emotional guy so he exaggerates a lot. Busquets is a little bitch, but no one can deny his great passing and offensive/defensive impact. Anyways, the midfield is built like Barca, but better passing and less boring.

Defensive - Two overlapping backs in Santos and Maicon. Maicon needs no introduction but Santos is highly regarded as the greatest left wing back of all time. I personally think it's Roberto Carlos but whatever. Scirea and Figueroa, two of the most highly regarded defender of all time.

GK - Chilavert though, man a GK who takes FK and penalty as well as captaining his team. What an alpha. A personal favorite. He was heroic for his country and I'm still sad about that asshole french Laurent Blanc for not letting it get to penalty kick.

http://i.imgur.com/tYXUIdEl.jpg

[Bosnian Sajo]

Iamgine has the better attack and better defense, don't like his midfield much but it isn't going to stop him from beating Andrew's kompany :oldlol:

[waseem780]

Wiggins' team has two great central midfielders in Vidal and Matthaus. He also has a very well rounded attack with play makers and goal scorers.

Iamgine's team has a unstoppable front 3 , midfield is great overall but compared to the rest , I don't think that will cut it for him.

Extremely tough call but going with Andrew Wiggins

[EnoughSaid]

That front 3 for imagine are amazing, but other than that his team doesn't really stand out. Wiggins overall has the better squad that's more balanced and great in every area.

So my vote goes for Andrew Wiggins

[Bosnian Sajo]

In every area? :lol

Iamgine's defense >>>>>>> Wiggin's D

[Budadiiii]

Why are we voting without giving Imagine a chance to give his tactics? :facepalm

This isn't a race. These votes don't count until Imagine gives us his tactics. His team is much better on paper

[Bosnian Sajo]

Why are we voting without giving Imagine a chance to give his tactics? :facepalm

This isn't a race. These votes don't count until Imagine gives us his tactics. His team is much better on paper

He has had more than enough time, everyone else got it done and he cant? But he can participate in the current draft going on, right? gtfo, this is exactly why I said to finish this up before starting another draft.

[waseem780]

In every area? :lol

Iamgine's defense >>>>>>> Wiggin's D
At first glance yes , but when I read through it , Wiggins explains how he actually has 6-7 players defending , while Imagine hasn't written his tactics so I can only guess his back 4 + DMF are defending.

[kc16]

Wiggins has a strong and balanced midfield, Figo and Raul are great up front with Romario up front, I like it going against iamgine defense. However iamgine attack seems like it will give any team trouble. Messi alone will give anyteam trouble along with Best. I think wiggins defense is solid enough that it should be able to contain Messi, but with Messi in his prime with Puskas, Rivera and Best it is a lot to slow down. I'll give the slight edge to iamgine.

[iamgine]

Manager - Marcello Lippi

Team is found on the idea of possession and heavy passing philosophy. Kind of like Tiki Taka but with the focus on attack. So maybe more like total football but not quite. Anyways, Lippi will figure it out, why else would he be hired eh?

Offensive - Offense should be somewhat okay with the trio of Best - Puskas - Messi.

Midfield - The star of the team. Gianni Rivera was a genius playmaker and perhaps the best passer of all time. Kinda forgotten so look him up. Didi was the brain of Brazil's 4-2-4 formation, the man Pele admired so much he said Didi's better than him. Look guys, Pele's an emotional guy so he exaggerates a lot. Busquets is a little bitch, but no one can deny his great passing and offensive/defensive impact. Anyways, the midfield is built like Barca, but better passing and less boring.

Defensive - Two overlapping backs in Santos and Maicon. Maicon needs no introduction but Santos is highly regarded as the greatest left wing back of all time. I personally think it's Roberto Carlos but whatever. Scirea and Figueroa, two of the most highly regarded defender of all time.

GK - Chilavert though, man a GK who takes FK and penalty as well as captaining his team. What an alpha. A personal favorite. He was heroic for his country and I'm still sad about that asshole french Laurent Blanc for not letting it get to penalty kick.

[b1imtf]

Tough call but I'm going with Wiggins.

[waseem780]

Thanks iamgine for posting !

[iamgine]

I just look at Wiggins' team and I don't think his team is better than mine in any position other than DMC and that's because of Matthaus.

So of course everyone should vote for him :lol

[waseem780]

I just look at Wiggins' team and I don't think his team is better than mine in any position other than DMC and that's because of Matthaus.

So of course everyone should vote for him :lol
I wouldn't be surprised if you ended up winning its pretty even

[Bosnian Sajo]

Most of us weren't gonna give you a vote without your tactics, better team or not. I edited my post doeee.

[cos88]

my problem with iamgine team is that lippi isn't the suited coach and that everybody attacks even the two cb scirea and figueroa who played as liberos and sweepers 75% of their life and both were well under 6 ft. i have absolutely no doubt that this is the worst cb pairing in the draft. don't get me wrong both were all time greats but they are not compatible.

in the midfield gianni rivera and didi were great, pretty sure didi can play a box to box role if he played today, he had fantastic stamina and world-class technique and i see gianni as a deep lying playmaker in your system.

this team is by far the best attacking one in the whole draft, but the problem is you don't play vs osasuna or levante, you play vs other great teams. george best and ferenc puskas are very very similar on and off the pitch. they both can't play in the center so your team is badly put on paper. they were a hybrid of a modern winger and an inside forward which means messi can play his false 9 role in the center just like he played for pep 2 years ago. if you were able to say this you could have a better chance in this matchup.


....

if you put head to head the players as individuals then andrew wiggins is ****ed. the other team has better players at almost every position if not at every one except for lothar matthaus. if iamgine selected one solid modern center back and developed my idea of the puskas-messi-best trio then you would lose by a fair margin.


i don't know why almost everybody selected offensive left/right backs . once again i say you need defense at that position you ain't playing osasuna. marcelo would be ****ed facing all the all time great wingers.

now for the good part and my explanation for why you got my vote. this is the most versatile team in the draft, starting from krool who could play every position in the defense and ending with the great romario. also johan cruyff is a nice pick for the coach i can see him making great stuff with this team, maybe making players to roam from their position and disturb the opponents defense or playing a more aggresive style of play. still a very close matchup but you've got my vote. so andrew wiggins

[cos88]

http://s8.postimg.org/rlhlo8uc5/111111.png (http://postimage.org/)


dayum

[kurple]

i already voted for iamgene in the other thread.

[iamgine]

I wouldn't be surprised if you ended up winning its pretty even
You're the best draft commish ever :rockon: but the voting system is highly flawed due to several reasons. Most of all because voting for who we think is the better team goes against one of everyone's main interests.

[waseem780]

You're the best draft commish ever :rockon: but the voting system is highly flawed due to several reasons. Most of all because voting for who we think is the better team goes against one of everyone's main interests.
Thanks , and I know its not perfect. So what would you suggest we do?

[iamgine]

my problem with iamgine team is that lippi isn't the suited coach and that everybody attacks even the two cb scirea and figueroa who played as liberos and sweepers 75% of their life and both were well under 6 ft. i have absolutely no doubt that this is the worst cb pairing in the draft. don't get me wrong both were all time greats but they are not compatible.

in the midfield gianni rivera and didi were great, pretty sure didi can play a box to box role if he played today, he had fantastic stamina and world-class technique and i see gianni as a deep lying playmaker in your system.

this team is by far the best attacking one in the whole draft, but the problem is you don't play vs osasuna or levante, you play vs other great teams. george best and ferenc puskas are very very similar on and off the pitch. they both can't play in the center so your team is badly put on paper. they were a hybrid of a modern winger and an inside forward which means messi can play his false 9 role in the center just like he played for pep 2 years ago. if you were able to say this you could have a better chance in this matchup.


....

if you put head to head the players as individuals then andrew wiggins is ****ed. the other team has better players at almost every position if not at every one except for lothar matthaus. if iamgine selected one solid modern center back and developed my idea of the puskas-messi-best trio then you would lose by a fair margin.


i don't know why almost everybody selected offensive left/right backs . once again i say you need defense at that position you ain't playing osasuna. marcelo would be ****ed facing all the all time great wingers.

now for the good part and my explanation for why you got my vote. this is the most versatile team in the draft, starting from krool who could play every position in the defense and ending with the great romario. also johan cruyff is a nice pick for the coach i can see him making great stuff with this team, maybe making players to roam from their position and disturb the opponents defense or playing a more aggresive style of play. still a very close matchup but you've got my vote. so andrew wiggins
I would like to argue but I like this analysis. :applause:

Three points though:

- Lippi's great Juve team had played similar to this team before.

- I fully intended for Messi to be in a false 9 position. That's why he's not right wing. It's a tiki taka kind of formation so it's not rigid.

- Best is left while Puskas is center, Puskas' Hungarian team played similarly with Hidegkuti in a false 9 role.

[iamgine]

^Oh wait I dont like that analysis anymore. Figueroa is above 6 feet and a great aerial defender. Why would I pick him otherwise.


Thanks , and I know its not perfect. So what would you suggest we do?
Well the best I can suggest is pick one (or three) willing poster who you think most knowledgeable about all time football outside the draft as judge(s). That is not without its flaws but it's the best I can think of right now.

[cos88]

damn i was 100% sure they both were under 6 ft ( 1.80 cm) it was a huge factor in my decision to pick the other team

this changes stuff, of course nobody here saw games with some of your players so it's hard to know things exactly . i can change my vote if you are willing to explain what roles are messi - puskas - best playing. you didn't insist much on it.


you can't play all 3 in the middle or one behind the other one in my opinion of course.

[dunksby]

http://s22.postimg.org/h3es159rl/wdwdwd.png

I got a versatile team, multidimensional and unstoppable on both ends. I got two natural finishers who can put the ball in the net in a variety of ways. Behind them I got Cantona who is more than capable of carrying the team and scoring crucial goals in clutch moments. I have a balance of creativity, technique and toughness + defense in my midfield.
Manager:
Jupp Heynckes

GK: Greatest keeper ever to grace a football pitch, leader and motivator, most impactful keeper in the history of the game. Only keeper to be named the best player of a World Cup. Took Bayern all the way and won them a Champions league title. Took Germany on a dream ride with an injured hand in 2002 and named player of the tournament.

Defense:
I have one of the greatest free kick and set piece takers and crossers of all-time in Brehme combine that with the aerial prowess of Klinsmann and you already have an all-time duo. Could play equally well with both feet, he used to take penalties with his right foot and corners and freekicks with his left. He could run up and down the field all game like a machine.
I also have a tireless RB in Vogts (the guy who shutdown Cruyff). The best RB Europe has produced. Great tackler, strong and quick, amazing man to man defender. Relentless on offense, smart in passing and crossing, always trying to impact the game.
My team boasts of a physical lockdown defender in Kohler, all-time stopper and marksman. Spectacular tackler, great in air and a strong beast.
Hector Chumptiaz known for his great technique, his leadership, his organization ability on the field, A strong reader of the game a formidable passer and dribbler. Also could score well for a defender.

Midfield:
Jose Pirri: Spain's best DM in history, a strong defensive midfielder with great vision and passing skills. Could destroy any opponent's play build up with his tackling and interceptions. His stamina and offensive awareness let him translate his defensive plays into instant offense, allowing him to score a whooping 170 goals in his 16 year tenure at Real Madrid. He also scored 16 goals in 47 games for Spanish NT.
Paul Brietner: One of the most talented and versatile players in history, Brietner first started as a WB for Bayern and quickly became the best in that in position. His technique, passing, crossing and defense made him a great wing. But later as his game matured he moved to CM to make more use of his vision and ball distribution skills. A creative mind who could put any offensive player in a goal scoring opportunity at any moment. Probably the greatest balance of offensive and defensive threat ever found in a midfielder.
Jean Tigana: A Box-to-Box midfielder primarily responsible for defensive duties before setting up his teammates on attack. Best remembered as a member of

[cos88]

from the other thread here is kc16 team

Here is my formation and tactics from the draft thread:

I made changes to mine, more of a 4-3-3 with Riquelme playing a supporting striker/centre attacking midfield position. Defensively we will switch to a 4-4-2 with Riquelme and Okocha occasionally helping in defense when needed.

http://footballformation.co.uk/team/442d/080314133005.png

Okocha and Riquelme will be able to interchange the centre attacking workload when need be. Both are great creators and are able to finish with with precise passes or taking shots at goal. Feeding balls to Eusebio and Weah is integral. Both are some of the stronger strikers in soccer history, let alone some of the greatest. Both strikers are goal hungry and are great ball controllers, add to the fact any defender will be worried to see these two coming at them. I have good faith in my attackers.

Toure and Vieira are vital pieces to both the attack and defense as both will play a box-to-box role,knowing that and Mourinho's tactics of being a defensive mind, when one is up helping the attack the other won't go up as high to sure up the defense.

Roberto Carlos will play a similar role to what Ashley Cole does for Chelsea, helping out in the attack but importantly using his strength to stop opposing wingers and attackers from his side. Plus his left foot is deadly, taking unexpected shots when up front is no problem for me. Puyol is allowed to come up occasionally but not necessary.

Silva and Kuffour will mostly stay in the center of the backfield and with their strength and speed I am confident they can slow most attackers. Add to the fact with Vieira and Toure playing central defense and Carlos and Puyol at LB and RB respectively I have much confidence in my defense. Cech's athleticism and leadership is also very integral part, knowing where players should be during free kicks and corners.

Coach Mourinho is a defensive minded coach so it is vital that players like Okocha and Riquelme help out in defense when need be. Also to balance things out it's best that we keep at 3 defenders in the back as well as one of our midfielders back as well when we are attacking our opponent. Carlos and Toure would be used often when we are moving up front and it is vital that they come back to help our defense. Another reason for picking Mourinho is that Chelsea is my favorite team and I have enjoyed Mourinho as our coach since the first year he started coaching us back in 2004. As a players coach, as most players love to play for him, will help build chemistry with this team.

Sorry for no arrows, I didn't know how to upload the image on here using this11.com. The arrows would have helped though.

[cos88]

people can vote for the matchup between dunksby and kc16 ( the two above teams )

will post an unbiased opinion later

[iamgine]

damn i was 100% sure they both were under 6 ft ( 1.80 cm) it was a huge factor in my decision to pick the other team

this changes stuff, of course nobody here saw games with some of your players so it's hard to know things exactly . i can change my vote if you are willing to explain what roles are messi - puskas - best playing. you didn't insist much on it.


you can't play all 3 in the middle or one behind the other one in my opinion of course.
Here's the role as I saw it when drafting them:

Best plays left winger ala Ryan Giggs. Puskas is middle as a second striker and target man for finishing goals. Messi is given the freedom to roam his side, even dropping to midfield as he will often be the start of the attack.

But all three can dribble, pass and score at a very high level so it's more of a fluid passing game until an opportunity is created.

[kc16]

people can vote for the matchup between dunksby and kc16 ( the two above teams )

will post an unbiased opinion later

Thanks for posting my tactics, hoping my team does well.

[Jasi]

I am very undecided between Wiggins and iamgine as I don't really like any of the two teams.
Wiggins' offensive players are a bit ovverrated imo, and Ze Roberto is a wek selection, but his team has a really effective shape.
iamgine has way better players but they will face problems protecting the flanks especially the right one. All in all I think I'll go with iamgine because his offense is deadly.


I vote kc16. Dunksby's German-oriented side does not really strike me, sorry. I don't see much playmaking and good flow while in possession. Pirri played the most important part of his career as a sweeper, Cantona is genious (and a headcase) but he played for himself.

On the other hand kc16's team is very solid like Mourinho likes.

[dunksby]

I am very undecided between Wiggins and iamgine as I don't really like any of the two teams.
Wiggins' offensive players are a bit ovverrated imo, and Ze Roberto is a wek selection, but his team has a really effective shape.
iamgine has way better players but they will face problems protecting the flanks especially the right one. All in all I think I'll go with iamgine because his offense is deadly.


I vote kc16. Dunksby's German-oriented side does not really strike me, sorry. I don't see much playmaking and good flow while in possession. Pirri played the most important part of his career as a sweeper, Cantona is genious (and a headcase) but he played for himself.

On the other hand kc16's team is very solid like Mourinho likes.
Laughable, I have the most unstoppable offensive threats, lol @ the idea that kuffour and Silva can do anything to stop my offense. On the other end my team would shutdown his strikers, my midfield is just overwhelming. I know you are an Italian and traditionally don't like Germans still I'm surprised. You probably are too busy with the other draft which is disappointing, it is obvious from your shallow analysis.
All in all it's not even a fair matchup seeing how my team could just roll past his misshaped team.

[Jasi]

Laughable, I have the most unstoppable offensive threats, lol @ the idea that kuffour and Silva can do anything to stop my offense. On the other end my team would shutdown his strikers, my midfield is just overwhelming. I know you are an Italian and traditionally don't like Germans still I'm surprised. You probably are too busy with the other draft which is disappointing, it is obvious from your shallow analysis.
All in all it's not even a fair matchup seeing how my team could just roll past his misshaped team.

On the contrary I like Germans and their football a lot.
Nothing personal dude, c'mon.
Breitner is the only guy who can create and it wasn't even his main job.
Your FBs can attack but need to be served.
Cantona is not a playmaker, let alone Klinsmann or Gerd Muller.
You have a bunch of very good forwards but who will get the ball in their feet is what I am missing.

[dunksby]

As for iamgine vs Wiggins, I'm leaning towards the former. His offense will be well orchestrated and fed through Rivera, Didi is playing a bit back but it wouldn't hinder his productivity much I guess. Busquets doesn't belong even on the bench with all-time greats that is his biggest weakness, still the team has a great pairing of CBs who could compensate. Wiggins' flanks are underwhelming IMO and would be rendered useless against the opponent. iamgine gets my vote.

[dunksby]

On the contrary I like Germans and their football a lot.
Nothing personal dude, c'mon.
Breitner is the only guy who can create and it wasn't even his main job.
Your FBs can attack but need to be served.
Cantona is not a playmaker, let alone Klinsmann or Gerd Muller.
You have a bunch of very good forwards but who will get the ball in their feet is what I am missing.
Cantona is not my distributor, he is my X factor, Brietner, Tigana distribute the ball from midfield. Both great at disrupting and passing with creativity. I have Brehme and Vogts who can run up the field and send deadly crosses to feed my strikers. Chumpitaz is also a great passer and distributor, you think too positional which is far from how I see my team.

[alenleomessi]

iamgine has probably the best attack in the draft.. probably? who am i kidding.. those 3 guys are all top 15 of all time... his midfield and defense seems good too even though i think he could have done better at GK and maybe even at DM ( i think if AW has any chance of winning its definitely here since he has vidal+matthaus)
i think AW could have done better on the GK too, marcelo is questionable, DMs partnership is possibly the best in the game, romario is obviously one of the greatest scorers, but i feel ze roberto, raul and figo were all a bit overrated during their careers..
im going with iamgine

[kc16]

Laughable, I have the most unstoppable offensive threats, lol @ the idea that kuffour and Silva can do anything to stop my offense. On the other end my team would shutdown his strikers, my midfield is just overwhelming. I know you are an Italian and traditionally don't like Germans still I'm surprised. You probably are too busy with the other draft which is disappointing, it is obvious from your shallow analysis.
All in all it's not even a fair matchup seeing how my team could just roll past his misshaped team.

I think you are really underrating my strikers as well my attack force. Don't get me wrong your defense is very good but to say you will shutdown Weah and Eusebio is a no sorry. 2 of the greatest strikers to ever play will get there chances plus with Riquelme, Okocha and Toure, all of which who can create opportunities as well as go through defenses and strike. I seriously don't think your team will shut down my strikers that easily let alone my attacking force from my midfield.

[cos88]

my problem with kc16's team is that i don't like 3 players: kuffour, jj and riquelme. although they are great i don't think they have a place in this draft considering better players didn't get picked ( hagi, first example which is way better than jay-jay okocha or riquelme. ) also i don't think they are mourinho type of players, who loves agile versatile players that can play at the both ends that have great stamina, high work rate and work ethic. also the right flank is dead, the 2 guys that i mentioned can't play near the touchline and puyol is unconvincing as a full back. eusebio and weah are similar but i think can play together, i like the idea, as i like the pairing of vieira and yaya toure.


i would like if dunksby can say more about the style of play his team will play. almost all of his players are considered all time greats, and all were at the top of the world at one point in their career. i like the idea with brehme and vogts as complete wing backs that love to attack and are still capable of doing their defensive duties. brehme scored for every team he played, and in todays game would probably be the best full back in the world with the possibility of playing as a left winger for some teams. he would have all day to go forward as the right flank is very weak for the opposition with help from brietner.

tigana a very intelligent midfielder will have to contribute greatly to both attacking ( arriving late into the box to get on the end of the crosses from brehme or being a threat from distance ) and defending ( protecting the line of kohler - chumpitaz )

dunksby is my pick.

[LJJ]

Iamgine and Andre Wiggins both have nicely balanced teams. I like the vision Andre Wiggins drafted with, all players are very close to eachother respective to their positions. Krol and Kompany is a great defensive pairing for a possession team. At the end of the day I don't think either team has an obvious flaw for the other team to take advantage off, which makes me give Iamgine with his world beating front line the nod.

Dunksby and KC16 both have a similar flaw: both of them have an extremely weak right side during possession. I feel their opponents can mostly just collapse to the left flank defensively and largely neutralize the effectiveness of the offense. (I think KC16 could fix this a little by giving Okocha the space to roam the right flank)
At the end of the day I'm giving this to KC16. Muller and Klinnsman would be a great pairing on a team that could give them the service, and in that light I think placing Cantona behind them and nobody to service them from the right side is poor tactical form. I think KC16's team is a better mix.


Btw, I keep hearing people say V

[dunksby]

I think you are really underrating my strikers as well my attack force. Don't get me wrong your defense is very good but to say you will shutdown Weah and Eusebio is a no sorry. 2 of the greatest strikers to ever play will get there chances plus with Riquelme, Okocha and Toure, all of which who can create opportunities as well as go through defenses and strike. I seriously don't think your team will shut down my strikers that easily let alone my attacking force from my midfield.
By shutting down I don't mean turning them into spectators, but reducing their performance greatly. Honestly I don't think I'm being biased when I say Riquelme would be lost facing my defensive scheme considering I got Pirri, Brietner and Tigana there. Another matter is Kuffour at the heart of your defense while I have two all-time greats who were fantastic in air. Puyol at SB and Okocha are your other weak links.

[dunksby]

[QUOTE=LJJ]Iamgine and Andre Wiggins both have nicely balanced teams. I like the vision Andre Wiggins drafted with, all players are very close to eachother respective to their positions. Krol and Kompany is a great defensive pairing for a possession team. At the end of the day I don't think either team has an obvious flaw for the other team to take advantage off, which makes me give Iamgine with his world beating front line the nod.

Dunksby and KC16 both have a similar flaw: both of them have an extremely weak right side during possession. I feel their opponents can mostly just collapse to the left flank defensively and largely neutralize the effectiveness of the offense. (I think KC16 could fix this a little by giving Okocha the space to roam the right flank)
At the end of the day I'm giving this to KC16. Muller and Klinnsman would be a great pairing on a team that could give them the service, and in that light I think placing Cantona behind them and nobody to service them from the right side is poor tactical form. I think KC16's team is a better mix.


Btw, I keep hearing people say V

[Jasi]

By shutting down I don't mean turning them into spectators, but reducing their performance greatly. Honestly I don't think I'm being biased when I say Riquelme would be lost facing my defensive scheme considering I got Pirri, Brietner and Tigana there. Another matter is Kuffour at the heart of your defense while I have two all-time greats who were fantastic in air. Puyol at SB and Okocha are your other weak links.

This is actually true. If you manmark Riquelme you'll have done great part of the job. But it's not like Yaya and Vieira are Gattusos. If you think Breitner and Tigana can create, well so can those two.
Plus, Eusebio and Weah are no Inzaghi or... Gerd Muller. I mean you can feed them with long balls or crosses and let them create for themselves by power&skills.

[dunksby]

This is actually true. If you manmark Riquelme you'll have done great part of the job. But it's not like Yaya and Vieira are Gattusos. If you think Breitner and Tigana can create, well so can those two.
Plus, Eusebio and Weah are no Inzaghi or... Gerd Muller. I mean you can feed them with long balls or crosses and let them create for themselves by power&skills.
This is what happens when you do all-time great teams, no one is out completely, still I believe you underrate my creativity in midfield and as a whole. Call me biased or nostalgic but Yaya and to some extend Vieira are not really close to Brietner and Tigana when it comes to orchestrating offense. Come on now we are talking about Paul mother ****in Brietner :facepalm

[LJJ]

As I addressed it in a post to Jasi, Cantona is not my distributor, I got Brietner and Tigana to feed my offense from midfield and Brehme and Vogts to do it from the right. I also have Chumpitaz who was great at setting up attacks from deep friendly territory.

The arrows in my lineup show where my players cover on the pitch, those do not correspond to where they pass the ball.

I know you don't use him as your distributor, but that doesn't mean it isn't a waste to have Cantona there in a free offensive role (one of the more mediocre players in the draft in that role at that) behind two strikers who are much better with a lot of support. I understand your tactics but I don't agree that they work well or that it's a team with good chemistry. Brehme, Breitner and Muller is one of the best left flank - striker units in the draft, the rest of your squad doesn't work as well for me.

[dunksby]

I know you don't use him as your distributor, but that doesn't mean it isn't a waste to have Cantona there in a free offensive role (one of the more mediocre players in the draft in that role at that) behind two strikers who are much better with a lot of support. I understand your tactics but I don't agree that they work well or that it's a team with good chemistry. Brehme, Breitner and Muller is one of the best left flank - striker units in the draft, the rest of your squad doesn't work as well for me.
Cantona played behind forwards in Manchester and was effective so I don't see why you have such a big problem with it. Let's say Vogts is as useless as you say when it comes to passing and crossing, what I want out of him is an everlasting presence on offense with his stamina. Not every team has to have a super talented offensive RB to be successful, kc has Puyol on his right.

[dunksby]

I have to split now, I hope those have gone AWOL return soon.

[LJJ]

Cantona played behind forwards in Manchester and was effective so I don't see why you have such a big problem with it. Let's say Vogts is as useless as you say when it comes to passing and crossing, what I want out of him is an everlasting presence on offense with his stamina. Not every team has to have a super talented offensive RB to be successful, kc has Puyol on his right.

Cantona played as one of the two forwards for United usually. And United has also always played with two dedicated wingers. I criticized KC's right side too.

[kc16]

These reviews definitely help I must say. If I do make it through the next round I'm changing up my strategy a bit. Should have changed my back line a bit as well.

[Bosnian Sajo]

Okocha, Toure, and Vieira in the midfield isn't exactly my cup of tea...I find it really strange that so many of you are playing with no wings at all, are you guys relying on your fullbacks to cross the ball in? Puyol as a RB is bad enough (imo), but it wouldn't be that bad if he was to stay in defense all game. With the formation you selected, he is going to have to make runs from the right side, and that doesn't intimidate anybody, especially in a all time draft. R.Carlos is good, but that means you only have the left side to work with. Dunksby's squad is also lacking wings, but his fullbacks at least make up for it. I agree Cantona is really not needed, and that a played like Ozil would be much more efficient for you at that spot. Looking at their gkers, Kahn is a show stopper while Cech compared to him is average. dunksby gets my vote on default, because I feel like kc16 did a poor job with his team all together. If you really wanted to make a Mourinho team, you should of gotten strong wings and went with only 1 striker. Get rid of Weah and Okocha, have Vieira and Toure be the DM's, Riquelme AM, Eusebio the loan striker, and 2 decent wings...along with coach Mourinho, your team would of been much better like that.

[cos88]

maybe waseem780 will count the votes from the matchups and decide who goes forward to go to the next one.

[LJJ]

Btw, Roberto Carlos:

http://i.imgur.com/s9shnK9.gif

[b1imtf]

Dunksby.

[alenleomessi]

ill go with dunksby too.. just a better overall team( dem germans + cantona and tigana who are actually quite underrated nowadays).. kc's midfield is bunch of talented players thrown together.. and i think he could have done a better job on defense ( kuffour, puyol rb? )

[Overdrive]

It's a toss up for me. kc got a strong offensive team with a coach that preaches defense, dunksby a strong defensive one with an offesive coach.

I think I'll give the nod to kc, because I think Mourinho could make this defense work well enough, the creating is topnotch on this team. Dunskby's only flaw is Cantona. He's really odd there. At a point I planned on putting Zola in a similar role and I think he would've fared good, but Cantona just wasn't made for this.

Still, If those teams squared up I think 9 times out of 10 they'd draw.

[waseem780]

My vote goes to kc16

[cos88]

kc16 4 - dunksby 4 so far, you can still vote, here are the tactics :

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9647828&postcount=25

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9647857&postcount=26



vote so this thread can go further, no need for explanation if you don't want to :cheers:

[Mr Clutch Melo]

Dunksby for me.

[Jasi]

Waseem I think you should make a call for another matchup or this will never end.

[waseem780]

Waseem I think you should make a call for another matchup or this will never end.
match ups finish at 9 votes

[waseem780]

Dunksby for me.
and with this dunksby wins

[waseem780]

im not home and im on my phone so can someone post the next matchup

[Jasi]

match ups finish at 9 votes

Yes but I think we can make matchup votings overlap a bit, otherwise it will take too long.

[cos88]

i'll be a good guy greg and post the next 2 matchups ( will make an unbiased rant later ).



KobesFinger vs Overdrive


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9634318&postcount=983

vs

http://insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9634022&postcount=968

[cos88]

trollsmasher vs waseem780


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9634476&postcount=993

vs

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9639885&postcount=1064

[Jasi]

This is quite easily a win for Overdrive's team imo.

Kobes' team has a lot of flaws, first of all SAF with what seems a 4-3-1-2 more than a 4-3-3.
Ivanovic and Evra... are good for the current player draft, at an all-time level they're a stretch, especially considering they're the only guys on the flanks.
Van Basten and Shearer are too similar... I mean, the Swan is clearly 10x better, but roughly the same type of striker.

I also like Overdrive's originality in choosing a 4-1-4-1 and picking players who definitely fit that. Very well thought out.

[alenleomessi]

yeah overdrive too.. nice width vs no width at all.. plus overdrive's mid is much better

[Jasi]

trollsmasher vs waseem780


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9634476&postcount=993

vs

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9639885&postcount=1064


This one's close.
I have to think.

[alenleomessi]

who is the gk on waseem's team?

[Jasi]

yeah overdrive too.. nice width vs no width at all.. plus overdrive's mid is much better

In general, I think that the 4-3-1-2 is underrated in terms of width.
See Ancelotti's Milan, it was a 4-3-1-2 but made great use of width.
First of all the ball can never be in both wings at the same time, so if the CMs are good there is no problem shifting quickly the 3-men midfield from one side to the other, both in possession and not.
Secondly, the tweak is that with the right FBs/WBs is more a 2-5-1-2.

The problem here is that Essien isn't really the right guy for that work, and while Cesc could be, he's strangely put in a very central position, behind Bergkamp. So basically is left wing is only Evra. Evra, not Roberto Carlos.

[cos88]

who is the gk on waseem's team?

i had to go back at the original thread ... it's Peter Shilton

[KobesFinger]

Didn't think it would be a unanimous L

[cos88]

KobesFinger vs Overdrive


my biggest problem with Kobe's team is the offensive trio is not compatible. i love dennis, he was schooled in total football can play any position in the center ( target man / trequartista / second striker etc ) so he isn't the problem. i respect the fact that you don't want classic wingers, no problem with this but one of Van Basten and Shearer should be replaced. if i was you i would replace shearer with an inside left footed forward to play a little more in the right to compensate the fact that that flank is dead on offense with only ivanovic there.

i need someone like: george best, someone with pace, acceleration, balance, two-footedness, goalscoring and the ability to beat defenders. or a robben from modern times. this would made this team 1000 times better. the midfield isn't great but isn't the worst thing i saw so far, i like fabregas having some space to go a little in the left but gerrard or lampard would be better than one of essien or cambiasso. evra was one of the best attacking lb in the last 10 years but as someone said hes no roberto carlos, who would be fantastic with all the left flank just for him.


i love overide's idea with several triangles. very good and original in this draft. i would love a better right winger than donadoni considering ramos will only defend. irwin and overmars are both underrated and will work well together, are compatible on both ends and both can attack more facing the dead left flank of the opposition in this matchup. if somehow you could pick at the time Rijkaard instead of nadal ( sammer - koeman - rijkaard would be filthy )


this isn't a blowout, a piece of cake as some of you say, it would be a great game considering both want possesion football but i'll go with overdrive but great effort by kobe.

[Jasi]

Come to think of it he could have picked Vanenburg for that RW role, just to add more Dutch players in there :D

[Bosnian Sajo]

Overdrive vs. Kobe
Trollsmasher vs Waseem

My picks.

[b1imtf]

Waseem and Overdrive.

[LJJ]

Couple of notes on the Kobe and Override matchups.

It's a recurring theme in this draft and I know it is difficult, but gosh did you guys mess up the fullback selections. Especially the sentence "Ramos is smart and opens up the field with his overview and passing" is almost rage inducing. The main thing Ramos is good at while playing RB is keeping his head down going on ill-advised dribbles that never result in anything, leaving his flank exposed and giving some of the most horrible crosses of all time. He's the worst RB in the draft to me (though he wouldn't have been the worst selection at CB). The other guys are just mediocre on both teams.

Also I know some guys have been putting Overmars down, but he's one of the only wingers in the draft (maybe the only) who is great at making runs, great at creating space and generally just as valuable off-the-ball as dribbling. That's a tremendous asset on teams like these, since only one player can handle the ball at a time anyway. That's one of those great on paper <> great in reality things.

For Kobe, I think Van Basten is the best pure center forward ever and I agree Bergkamp would be a great offensive partner for him. But I also agree with the assessment of the other posters that Shearer is the odd man out here. Also outside the front three and Buffon, I don't think you utilized the "all time" aspect of the draft very well, the overall talent level of the midfield and the defense doesn't match up with most other teams in this draft.

Thus I select Overdrive too

[Trollsmasher]

nice draft guys, I'm just chimming in:lol

[Mr Clutch Melo]

Waseem and Overdrive.

this

[alenleomessi]

waseem too

[waseem780]

A few more votes (on the waseem780 vs trollsmasher match-up) and We can start the next two match-ups

[Jasi]

I can't decide between Trolls and Waseem.
I have the impression that in an actual matchup on the pitch, the game could be very close.
Trolls' side mostly relies on the effectiveness of dribblings (Masopust, CR7, Matthews), that is what makes or breaks their attacks.
Outstanding talent for Trolls but Davids and Scholes can support FBs very well in contrasting his wings.
I give the nod to Waseem because I think Trolls' defense will have a harder time vs Ronaldo-Eto'o, even assuming Keane can deal with Rivaldo (which I think he can).

[waseem780]

alenleomessi vs Mr Clutch Melo

alenleomessi

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9644180&postcount=76

Mr Clutch Melo

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9644813&postcount=96

[waseem780]

Bosnian Sajo goes through because blablabla never posted his tactics/formation

[waseem780]

kurple vs Jasi

Kurple

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9644187&postcount=77

Jasi

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9644337&postcount=86

[waseem780]

I vote alenleomessi and kurple

[Trollsmasher]

I can't decide between Trolls and Waseem.
I have the impression that in an actual matchup on the pitch, the game could be very close.
Trolls' side mostly relies on the effectiveness of dribblings (Masopust, CR7, Matthews), that is what makes or breaks their attacks.
Outstanding talent for Trolls but Davids and Scholes can support FBs very well in contrasting his wings.
I give the nod to Waseem because I think Trolls' defense will have a harder time vs Ronaldo-Eto'o, even assuming Keane can deal with Rivaldo (which I think he can).
Ah at least somebody sees something in that team of mine

On paper waseem's team is obviously better, but I think with right tactics my team would give his team nightmares, especially with his overcrowded middle and lack of width. Play a nice deep defensive line to keep Ronaldo/Eto'o out of running wild behind my backs, fill the passing lanes since his midfielders are not going to create much with ball on their feet and don't let Ronaldo turn with the ball towards the goal. Not sure what would I do on offense since I have no idea on who would win the midfield battle, but mixing fastbreaks with some more level-headed approach from my playmakers seems like a nice idea.

Well it was fun to participate in this draft... well not really, because I was pissed most of the time since I could not post my picks by myself:lol

Hopefully I will be more available in some future reiteration

[Jasi]

alenleomessi vs Mr Clutch Melo

alenleomessi

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9644180&postcount=76

Mr Clutch Melo

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9644813&postcount=96

Let's see the flaws first.

Alen - Gentile is far from what we consider a RB nowadays. He was a stopper and that's it. You may expect some (limited) runs forward but he's terrible with the ball. Considering your are playing total football, this is quite a big flaw.
On the defensive end I am also doubtful; he really was a great, classic man-marking stopper - with a sweeper behind him. If he'd be able to make the defensive movements required by a modern 4-men line, well I don't know.

Clutch Melo - Thuram out of position. He was a great RB in a back 4, or right CB in a back 3. As a RWB he cannot give you his best.

Now the matchup - Clutch Melo's back 3 can have troubles vs wide attacks, so his WBs will be forced by Cruijff and Gullit to stay low.
This will partly balance the midfield battle despite Melo's being more crowded on paper. I think Dinho and Drogba could find themselves alone vs not only a good defense but also the GOAT GK.

All in all this is close but I think alenleomessi wins... despite Deco being one of the most overrated players in history, I really had to write this lol.

[Bosnian Sajo]

Bosnian Sajo goes through because blablabla never posted his tactics/formation

Laaaaaaaaaame :sleeping

[b1imtf]

Jasi and alen for me

[waseem780]

Laaaaaaaaaame :sleeping
Actually you know what , since blablabla is out I'll put you against RagaZ cause it's unfair for b1imtf

[Bosnian Sajo]

Actually you know what , since blablabla is out I'll put you against RagaZ cause it's unfair for b1imtf

Then what do we do with enoughsaid?

[waseem780]

Then what do we do with enoughsaid?
EnoughSaid lost to b1imtf

[Bosnian Sajo]

EnoughSaid lost to b1imtf


That's who I meant, lol.

[waseem780]

That's who I meant, lol.
b1imtf already won once so he's advanced and he will go up against the winner of you and RagaZ's matchup

[Bosnian Sajo]

b1imtf already won once so he's advanced and he will go up against the winner of you and RagaZ's matchup

ok, start it up.

[b1imtf]

How does the bracket look atm?

[waseem780]

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g258/waseemabushagor/alltimetournamentlong_zps4fe0d63a.png

[waseem780]

Bosnian Sajo vs RagaZ

Bosnian Sajo

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9644837&postcount=97

RagaZ

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9644277&postcount=81

[waseem780]

I vote Bosnian Sajo

[dunksby]

Since Ragaz didn't post tactics, I'm voting for Bosnian Sajo by default. The rest I have to contemplate on.

[cos88]

Bosnian Sajo vs RagaZ

Bosnian Sajo

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9644837&postcount=97

RagaZ

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9644277&postcount=81

why would yout put 1.74 m (5 ft 9 in) Didier Deschamps as you center back, knowing you'll face the best strikers in the history of the game?

overall the worst cb pairing and worst overall defense in this draft. ashley cole with the left flank just for him to support and defend against the best inside forwards and wingers in the world without any help is also bad idea.

the fact that there is no explination of anything does not help. what roles do pele, charlton and dalglish have?

sajo just has a better team, a more balanced one with underrated attack, a great system where everybody is at their natural position and have a determined role. so sajo gets my vote

[cos88]

alenleomessi vs Mr Clutch Melo

alenleomessi

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9644180&postcount=76

Mr Clutch Melo

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9644813&postcount=96


the lb and rb are attacking wing backs for most teams in this draft with almost no clasic fb that has the main objective to defend. i don't like that, if i was in this draft i would have selected the best defensive rb and lb knowing what will i face from wingers and inside fowards. this said in mr clutch melo's team i don't like the selection of thuram and the fact that nobody will try to attack from that flank. in that system with 3 great defenders that cand stop and cover i would have chosen a more offensive guy, someone like cafu, but overall i like the idea of your formation. also i'm pretty sure there were better lone strikers than drogba available. also i don't know who is your coach.


the other team has cruyff as player-coach and i'm pretty sure drogba and ronaldinho will have a very very tough time vs blanc, tardelli and rijkaard. deco has no business in this draft, one of the worst players selected ( still great of course ). falcao/xavi/gerrard > deco/tardelli/hanegem but even with this alen's team is way better on offense. in the closest matchup so far i'm going with alenonelmessi

[cos88]

kurple vs Jasi

Kurple

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9644187&postcount=77

Jasi

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9644337&postcount=86


at last i see a player capable of sustaing a whole flank just by himself in djalma santos for team kurple. did not know edwards as he died 60 years ago, i just read about him on wikipedia of course no one has seen him play. if only somehow you selected Lothar Matthaus somewhere near the middle it would make this team a favorite to win.


nobody is stoping the most complete attacking trio of maradona, baggio and di stefano, even though i consider nesta + stam better than samuel and passarella.

jasi's team is pretty great, it's a shame they had to encounter so early. don't like samuel and i also think you could done better tham schweni - de rossi - suarez and also you wings are worse, djalma will have his way with zambrotta.

this could go down either way, but matchup wise i see kurple being able to pull what can considered being an upset

[LJJ]

Not going to waste much time on RagaZ with his holding midfield of Beckham-Lampard-Iniesta. Just a poorly constructed team with no thought put into it.

Bosnian Sajo wins and I'll comment on his team once he has a real opponent.

[dunksby]

alenleomessi has the better team overall, I don't like the selection of Deco though he doesn't belong. His offense will get the job done while he has the better defensive line as well. Melo just doesn't have enough firepower.

[alenleomessi]

deco from 03-06 had one of the best peaks for a mid in the last 20 years or so

[alenleomessi]

dont see how his midfield is any better either.. gerrard wasnt better than deco at his best nor he has the accomplishments.. xavi wasnt xavi when he played with ronaldinho

[Overdrive]

Sajo vs RagaZ:
RagaZ, your whole team is very poorly constructed. Yes, you got CL/WC winners at every position, but you don't have them at their position.You didn't post a pic of the formation which might have given more clues, but as it stands your team would get blown out against any offensive squad. Deschamps sticks out. You took him at Round 7 and instead of taking a CB in Round 9 you took Lampard and put Didier to the CB.
On the other hand Sajo's team is one of the best constructed, great players from top to bottom filling their respective position.
Winner Bosnian Sajo

Melo vs alen:
Melo & alen your players are excellent. The odd men out are Ronnie and Deco. Not saying Ronnie was a overestimated as Deco, but imo he was more of a showman than a substantial player. He comanded the ball to much and often wouldn't pass, which could be a huge issue with Drogba. Put Bergkamp in the same role and your team gets way better.
I simply think there's not enough possessions too make Ronnie and Drogba happy with such a commanding midfield presence as Gerrard is.

Aside from Thuram your midfield is very well constructed and if your plan is going through the middle letting Xavi, Gerrard and Ronnie create I don't even think it's a bad choice.
alen, I think your player, formation and coach choice is one of the best of the tournament, but yes, I also think Deco is a bit out of place, especially in round 6, but contrary to cos'(iirc) believe I don't think he hurts your team that much, he had a knack for makng good danerous passing, which could help create a lot of chances on that team. Other than him I think your team is better than Melo's.
I give the nod to alen, but it's very close.

Undecided yet on kurple and Jasi. Too close to call.

[LJJ]

Alen vs Clutch Melo

I like Alen's team mostly, despite a couple of curious choices. If he wanted to unlock the true potential of the free flowing "total football", selecting a cynical and purely defensive catenaccio back like Gentile seems like a pretty big flaw. The midfield is a little too static for total football also (although it is good on offense and defense, something a lot of teams lack), and there are no real wingers in the team. That said, a somewhat slow midfield surround by dynamic players like Cruijff, Gullit and Fachetti would work out really well I think.

Clutch Melo's team is a bit of a mess. Cabrini and Gerrard are nice dynamic players on offense from the left side, but Ronaldinho in a free role also wants to operate on the left side and takes the sting away from those players. Then you have Xavi and Falcao acting as great distributors, but no one to pass it too really. Ronaldinho doesn't require playmakers and honestly in a draft where you are facing teams with players like Cruijff and Gullit, having Ronaldinho as your team's centerpiece isn't going to do so much for you. Drogba is another bad fit. I don't like this lineup much at all really.

So in this matchup Alen wins pretty easily for me.

[Overdrive]

Couple of notes on the Kobe and Override matchups.

It's a recurring theme in this draft and I know it is difficult, but gosh did you guys mess up the fullback selections. Especially the sentence "Ramos is smart and opens up the field with his overview and passing" is almost rage inducing. The main thing Ramos is good at while playing RB is keeping his head down going on ill-advised dribbles that never result in anything, leaving his flank exposed and giving some of the most horrible crosses of all time. He's the worst RB in the draft to me (though he wouldn't have been the worst selection at CB). The other guys are just mediocre on both teams.

I know he wasn't the best choice, neither was Irwin, they were my last two picks as I prefered to get a GOAT lvl GK before them.

I wanted to go with Jocelyn Angloma(at the late rounds) on the right and v. Bronckhorst/Alaba on the left which would've been basically the same principle. Strong defense on the right, solid D and playmaking on the left.

I didn't want to go into players like Junior, Leonardo, Branco because they would more often than not leave my defense exposed to join the attack.

Should've taken Suurbier, that's a big mistake on me, but oh well. Didn't even think of that at that moment. Just came up with it actually.

If I could've taken any FBs I would've taken Brehme/Santos and Maldini/Breitner.

Regarding the smart thing and passing. He's an accurate passer and doesn't just kick the ball away. He connects well to the midfield. Illadvised crosses and dribblings just won't fly with Happel.

[LJJ]

Jasi and Kurple

Errr, I don't really know about Jasi's defense from a talent standpoint. Passarella was a midget and Samuel is just nothing special on an All Time level. But I get the overall vision behind it, the midfield and defense are all selected on chemistry. All these players (aside from Schweini who fits well) have a strong connection to the Italian game and would have excellent chemistry together. Non of these guys really are worried about getting too close to goal, I feel mostly they would play as a great unit in dutiful support of the three forwards with all the fireworks happening up front. Not much needs to be said about Maradona-Di Stefano-Baggio.

I don't know about Kurple's team. I love his defense with the greatest fullback of this generation (although he's better at RB), two extremely talented and fierce stoppers and a legendary offensive Brazilian back. From then onwards it's a strange little team. Simeone and Giggs are decent roleplayers, I guess. Van Nistelrooy is an excellent target man. But Duncan Edwards is a very peculiar pick. He's a 21 year old who has only ever played in a 2-3-5 formation, I don't think he would have a clue how to play with the rest of these players very well. I also like the phrase "Zidane and Platini can do whatever they want", since they both want to do the same thing: dribble slowly in midfield and let the game open up for them. They can't both do what they want. Zidane can veer to the left too, but then Giggs is in his way. The talent is there, but it wouldn't work together very well I think.

So that settles it for me. Jasi wins based on chemistry (and lack there off for Kurple's team) and Maradona being by far the best player on the pitch doesn't hurt either.

[Jasi]

Ragaz vs Bosnian Sajo.
Bosnian Sajo wins by default because of the no-show by Ragaz, but Ragaz' team is also definitely worse, with possibly the most non-sense decision in the whole draft in Deschamps at CB.

[Bosnian Sajo]

I'm whippin iiittttttttttttttttttttt :lol

[b1imtf]

Sajo for me too.

[cos88]

sajo 7-0 and alen 7-0 :lol are in the semis



2-2 kurple - jasi . you clowns can still vote


kurple vs Jasi

Kurple

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9644187&postcount=77

Jasi

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9644337&postcount=86

[Overdrive]

I'll take Jasi, not much reasoning behind it. I really dig kurple's offensive stance, aside from Platini and Zidane being abit redundant, but I don't share LJJ's sentiment that they'd get in their way too much. Just think about RM and their stacked midfield. The differencemaker is that I think Jasi's team is more capable of scoring.

[LJJ]

I'll take Jasi, not much reasoning behind it. I really dig kurple's offensive stance, aside from Platini and Zidane being abit redundant, but I don't share LJJ's sentiment that they'd get in their way too much. Just think about RM and their stacked midfield. The differencemaker is that I think Jasi's team is more capable of scoring.

I am thinking about RM. Galacticos Madrid had a similar problem with Figo and Zidane both being relatively slow ball-at-their-feet dribbling players, but at least they played at opposite sides of the field with a dynamic team player (Raul) between them.

Even then Galacticos Madrid is probably the most notorious under performing team ever.

[Overdrive]

I am thinking about RM. Galacticos Madrid had a similar problem with Figo and Zidane both being relatively slow ball-at-their-feet dribbling players, but at least they played at opposite sides of the field with a dynamic team player (Raul) between them.

Even then Galacticos Madrid is probably the most notorious under performing team ever.

It's true, you could put Zidane on the left and Figo would play on the right, but they both were commanding of the ball alot. But in the end it still worked out. Kinda Big Three Celtics style. They could've won more, but atleast they won.

[LJJ]

It's true, you could put Zidane on the left and Figo would play on the right, but they both were commanding of the ball alot. But in the end it still worked out. Kinda Big Three Celtics style. They could've won more, but atleast they won.

It didn't work out well at all, that's the point.

[alenleomessi]

i guess ill go with jasi but its definitely the closest matchup so far

[Overdrive]

It didn't work out well at all, that's the point.

Didn't say well. It worked out in the way that they achieved what they were brought in for. An UCL title, hence the Celtics-reference.

[Jasi]

My two cents on our matchup.
Ancelotti would probably ask my team to focus their attack on the centre/left, asking Baggio to start wide left and cut in. That way Djalma Santos would be forced to stay low because no way Aragones would let Stam face Baggio one on one. From that, the balance of kurple's team would be gone (their right flank empty, Simeone needing help from Edwards vs Maradona, and so on).

[LJJ]

Didn't say well. It worked out in the way that they achieved what they were brought in for. An UCL title, hence the Celtics-reference.

I don't think they added Figo, Zidane, Ronaldo etc to the squad to do worse than the team did before they arrived.

[cos88]

4-2 jasi vote still on and we will then go to the semis

[Overdrive]

I don't think they added Figo, Zidane, Ronaldo etc to the squad to do worse than the team did before they arrived.

I know all that. I really liked '98 RM and I was doubtful when they overcrowded their midfield, but just think about it how many teams fail to win a CL at all. Just think about Chelsea, they bought everything they could get their hands on and how long they came up short.

[dunksby]

Kurple is giving Zidane and Platini free reign to do whatever they want, which means ball will be dominated by them the majority of time when he has the ball. I believe Jasi's physicality and toughness with De Rossi and Schweini and Samuel would create problems during the course of a match. On the other hand Mardona and Di Stefano's brilliance could very well dominate the match. Baggio is the one who puts Jasi over the top in this matchup.

[kurple]

Jasi and Kurple

Errr, I don't really know about Jasi's defense from a talent standpoint. Passarella was a midget and Samuel is just nothing special on an All Time level. But I get the overall vision behind it, the midfield and defense are all selected on chemistry. All these players (aside from Schweini who fits well) have a strong connection to the Italian game and would have excellent chemistry together. Non of these guys really are worried about getting too close to goal, I feel mostly they would play as a great unit in dutiful support of the three forwards with all the fireworks happening up front. Not much needs to be said about Maradona-Di Stefano-Baggio.

I don't know about Kurple's team. I love his defense with the greatest fullback of this generation (although he's better at RB), two extremely talented and fierce stoppers and a legendary offensive Brazilian back. From then onwards it's a strange little team. Simeone and Giggs are decent roleplayers, I guess. Van Nistelrooy is an excellent target man. But Duncan Edwards is a very peculiar pick. He's a 21 year old who has only ever played in a 2-3-5 formation, I don't think he would have a clue how to play with the rest of these players very well. I also like the phrase "Zidane and Platini can do whatever they want", since they both want to do the same thing: dribble slowly in midfield and let the game open up for them. They can't both do what they want. Zidane can veer to the left too, but then Giggs is in his way. The talent is there, but it wouldn't work together very well I think.

So that settles it for me. Jasi wins based on chemistry (and lack there off for Kurple's team) and Maradona being by far the best player on the pitch doesn't hurt either.
I'm not one to defend my team too much. And i'm happy with losing to Jasi as our teams were the 2 best teams IMO

- I dont buy that Zidane and Platini would be in eachothers way. This isnt basketball where playing Iverson and Kobe together wouldnt work. Just look at all the current great offenses, has many "playmakers"

- I've been looking everywhere for a place where they show old formations. Did not know that the old united team played 2-3-5. Where did you read that? and I'd love to check it out my self. Thats been the most fun part about this, learning new stuff.

And every time i read about duncan edwards they brag about him being able to play anywhere on the pick. With his main position being a CM (or whatever thats called in a 2-3-5). I dont really see that as a big problem, but thanks for the info.

- I might be the only one who thinks it. But Zidane > Maradona. Zidane is the GOAT footballer

anyways. this was fun as hell (liked it even more than the current one). and there is no shame is losing to Jasi's amazing offense

[Overdrive]

I'm not one to defend my team too much. And i'm happy with losing to Jasi as our teams were the 2 best teams IMO

I like yours, Jasi's and Sajo the best. Too bad you squared up that early.



- I might be the only one who thinks it. But Zidane > Maradona. Zidane is the GOAT footballer


I think they're equal and I like Zidane better. Don't think your statement is inane.

[kurple]

My two cents on our matchup.
Ancelotti would probably ask my team to focus their attack on the centre/left, asking Baggio to start wide left and cut in. That way Djalma Santos would be forced to stay low because no way Aragones would let Stam face Baggio one on one. From that, the balance of kurple's team would be gone (their right flank empty, Simeone needing help from Edwards vs Maradona, and so on).
good point. My right side COULD be a bit open on the counterattacks. But I already said that thats one of Simeone's main things to do (help/cover for Santos). As he's not to even to coss the half court line and as Lahm would help out the midfield on the left (dont need him bombing down the left with Giggsy)

And current Atletico (who i model my defense after) have showed how little time it takes to get in your defencive stance. Shouldnt take more than a few second


http://this11.com/boards/abGwirCamD.jpg


i'd also like to see your defense shut my players down. Zidane and Platini would run circles around De Rossi

[Jasi]

De Rossi is not my only midfielder: Schweini's intensity is well known, and Luisito Suarez played many years as a deep-laying centre midfield, he contributes greatly on defense too (especially with his positional IQ).

[LJJ]

I'm not one to defend my team too much. And i'm happy with losing to Jasi as our teams were the 2 best teams IMO

- I dont buy that Zidane and Platini would be in eachothers way. This isnt basketball where playing Iverson and Kobe together wouldnt work. Just look at all the current great offenses, has many "playmakers"

- I've been looking everywhere for a place where they show old formations. Did not know that the old united team played 2-3-5. Where did you read that? and I'd love to check it out my self. Thats been the most fun part about this, learning new stuff.

And every time i read about duncan edwards they brag about him being able to play anywhere on the pick. With his main position being a CM (or whatever thats called in a 2-3-5). I dont really see that as a big problem, but thanks for the info.

- I might be the only one who thinks it. But Zidane > Maradona. Zidane is the GOAT footballer

anyways. this was fun as hell (liked it even more than the current one). and there is no shame is losing to Jasi's amazing offense

Well we've gone over the Zidane-Platini thing. I agree that it's a bit nitpicky and they could play together pretty well, but in a draft like zooming in on minor flaws is key because all the teams have so much talent. I agree your team beats out a lot of the other teams.

If you are really interested in the history of football formations you could read the book "Inverting the Pyramid". 50s United's formation looked something like this (wood is the GK):

http://i.imgur.com/ToLlXw9.jpg

Looking at that formation at first glance it seems like Edwards would be playing some strange left-back/midfield hybrid, but in reality the two defenders are actually fullbacks who would be mostly concerned with the wingers while the midfielders would be mostly concerned with stopping the center forwards (while still providing some playmaking). Kind of the opposite way defense play now, with the center staying back and the fullbacks having more responsibilities on offense.

It's kind of weird but fascinating to look at. You can watch the 57 FA final here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce-RMQy3eK4

[Jasi]

I was sure you knew that book, LJJ :D

[kurple]

cool! :cheers: will def check that out

wouldnt other oldies (wood, di steffano, charlton) also be affected by the major change in tactics? or is there a reason you singled Edwards out (the difference being bigger in the midfield or somethin)?

[cos88]

It's kind of weird but fascinating to look at. You can watch the 57 FA final here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce-RMQy3eK4

been watching football since i was a little kid 18-19 years ago on regular basis and this is the first time i watched a game this old. never thought of searching youtube for full-games from 50s 60s or 70s.

from the first 20 minute:

- i love the pace, the fact that they hurry up every play starting from the gks.

- the ball is very heavy which is not helping anybody at 11:15 the gk barely sends it to the middle of the pitch.

- all of them were real man, short and strong on their feet with no tendency for flopping

- 12:01 it should have been a penalty, no decision and you don't see charlton crying about it.

- the crowd really knows their football, they are understanding every play and give ''oooo'' and ''aaaa'' at the right moment

- very offensive football the old 2-3-5 made the game more spectacular

- the central midfielders are so different from todays game, they aren't playing anything safe with short passes or behind passes ... just direct football.

- watch a game from 57 and a basketabll game from 57 and compare the two. basketball is like a new sport now.

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVb363xzVpQ

[LJJ]

cool! :cheers: will def check that out

wouldnt other oldies (wood, di steffano, charlton) also be affected by the major change in tactics? or is there a reason you singled Edwards out (the difference being bigger in the midfield or somethin)?

The position largely. The first iterations of the fullback and halfback (like Edwards) positions are probably the hardest to reconcile with modern tactics. I just have a hard time visualizing how it would go.

I had some similar doubts about Matthews and Nordahl, but those matchups were more clear cut. The old player who puzzled me the most was Stanley Matthews, who is mostly a 40s star. I had no idea how that was going to work. Yeah he's a legendary dribbler but damn, that's a big leap.

[Bosnian Sajo]

I was gonna just stay out of this match up since I couldn't decide who to pick, but having some time to think and reading the responses above, I agree that Jasi has the slight edge.

[waseem780]

Anyone who wants to change something particular in your formation or tactics , now is your time to do so

[Bosnian Sajo]

Set up the brackets for the next round.

[dunksby]

I'm changing my formation a bit, will post update soon.

[dunksby]

This is my updated formation:

GK: Oliver Kahn

http://this11.com/play/abGyU5haD.png

I got a versatile team, multidimensional and unstoppable on both ends. I got two natural finishers who can put the ball in the net in a variety of ways. They are fed through Brehme, the crossing and set pieces master along with Brietner a creative and technical midfielder. Behind them I got Cantona who is more than capable of carrying the team and scoring crucial goals in clutch moments. I have a balance of creativity, technique and toughness + defense in my midfield. Overall my offense will be orchestrated through Brietner and Tigana in the midfield, with huge support from Brehme on the left and a solid piston in Vogts on the right. Brietner, who was also a world-class wing will make runs on the right as well to make a nice duo with Vogts.
Manager:
Jupp Heynckes

GK: Oliver Kahn is the Greatest keeper ever to grace a football pitch, leader and motivator, most impactful keeper in the history of the game. Only keeper to be named the best player of a World Cup. Took Bayern all the way and won them a Champions league title. Took Germany on a dream ride with an injured hand in 2002 and named player of the tournament.

Defense:
I have one of the greatest free kick and set piece takers and crossers of all-time in Brehme combine that with the aerial prowess of Klinsmann and you already have an all-time duo. Could play equally well with both feet, he used to take penalties with his right foot and corners and freekicks with his left. He could run up and down the field all game like a machine.
I also have a tireless RB in Vogts (the guy who shutdown Cruyff). The best RB Europe has produced. Great tackler, strong and quick, amazing man to man defender. Relentless on offense, smart in passing and crossing, always trying to impact the game.
My team boasts of a physical lockdown defender in Kohler, all-time stopper and marksman. Spectacular tackler, great in air and a strong beast.
Hector Chumptiaz known for his great technique, his leadership, his organization ability on the field, A strong reader of the game a formidable passer and dribbler. Also could score well for a defender.

Midfield:
Jose Pirri: Spain's best DM in history, a strong defensive midfielder with great vision and passing skills. Could destroy any opponent's play build up with his tackling and interceptions. His stamina and offensive awareness let him translate his defensive plays into instant offense, allowing him to score a whooping 170 goals in his 16 year tenure at Real Madrid. He also scored 16 goals in 47 games for Spanish NT.
Paul Brietner: One of the most talented and versatile players in history, Brietner first started as a WB for Bayern and quickly became the best in that in position. His technique, passing, crossing and defense made him a great wing. But later as his game matured he moved to CM to make more use of his vision and ball distribution skills. A creative mind who could put any offensive player in a goal scoring opportunity at any moment. Probably the greatest balance of offensive and defensive threat ever found in a midfielder.
Jean Tigana: A Box-to-Box midfielder primarily responsible for defensive duties before setting up his teammates on attack. Best remembered as a member of “The Magic Square” one of the greatest midfield foursomes of all-time alongside Michel Platini, Alain Giresse and Luis Fernandez in World Cup 1986. Tigana had excellent understanding of the game and team movements, coupled that with solid passing made him a formidable force in midfield.

Offense:
Eric Cantona: Do I need to introduce this beast? Great leader, shot taker, versatile scorer, relentless in attacking and competitive to a fault. Manchester United's greatest player ever, could crush any defense and intimidated all defenders who went at him.
Jurgen Klinsmann: My favorite player from the 1990 WC German Championship team. Best in history of the game in air, best remembered for his diving header goals. Long and athletic, surprisingly skilled on the ground, excellent shooter and deadly with the ball in the penalty box.
Gerd Muller: Unarguably the best finisher and scorer of all-time, 68 goals in 62 games for Germany, 370 goals in 427 Bundesliga games and 66 goals in 74 European club games. Der Bomber was extremely agile and quick, his bursts of speed would take any defender off-guard. This is what Beckenbauer, the greatest CB, has to say about him "His pace was incredible. In training I have played against him and I never had a chance." Added to those characteristics, he had an amazingly high vertical and continuously jumped higher than defenders for headers.

[cos88]

who is you keeper ? ^


b1imtf vs iamgine should post their tactics especially b1imtf as his tactic is 5 pages away in the other threads. iamgine has his tactic in the first page here maybe he'll make some adjustments


in rest everybody has their tactics here. if you guys aren't posting new updated formation/tactics i'll make the matchups to be more clear with link to tactic like i did in the last round if it's ok with waseem :confusedshrug:

[dunksby]

who is you keeper ? ^


b1imtf vs iamgine should post their tactics especially b1imtf as his tactic is 5 pages away in the other threads. iamgine has his tactic in the first page here maybe he'll make some adjustments


in rest everybody has their tactics here. if you guys aren't posting new updated formation/tactics i'll make the matchups to be more clear with link to tactic like i did in the last round if it's ok with waseem :confusedshrug:
It's Kahn, I edited my post.

[cos88]

ok, here are 2 of the 4 matchups:

Bosnian Sajo vs waseem780


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9644837&postcount=97

vs

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9639885&postcount=1064


iamgine vs b1imtf

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9646543&postcount=2

vs

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9637447&postcount=5



first to 5 will go through.

[alenleomessi]

waseem and iamgine

[cos88]

Bosnian Sajo's and waseem780's team are better than the other two teams but they face up on that side of the bracket. i like both teams, but i don't understand why some of you guys selected teams with wing backs, basically only 1 guy on the whole pitch on the flank. we have jairzinho and carlos alberto vs van bronckhorst, a matchup in which van bron will not have the chance of advancing that much and will get killed on D. same on the other side with rivelino and briegel vs neville who will not be a factor on offense. of course in the middle waseem will have an advantage but it's not enough for me considering what i said above. Sajo wins this one.



a little surprised iamgine and b1imtf got through the previous round as i voted against both of them. i made a post last time about how the trio of totti - del piero - henry would not work the way b1itf and i'm sticking with it. iamgine has a better more balanced team so he has my vote.

[Jasi]

Sajo vs Waseem.
Both teams are very good.
I think Sajo's is an absolute force offensively.
Rivelino-Zico-Jairzinho is a killer trio of trequartistas/wingers. Add Ibra to that. And Carlos Alberto. Wow.
His overall defensive effectiveness might be hindered by the fact that no real hardworker is in the team, with Dunga being a hard tackler but not the most dynamic midfielder, and Susic being also more of a playmaker. The wings won't track back consistently. On the other hand the CB pair + Briegel are an outstading wall, and that could make up for the midfield's and wings' poor defending since most of Waseem's attacking is created by the forwards themselves anyways.
However, I predict a match with tons of scoring options for both sides, with a slight edge to Sajo; something like 4-3 or 5-4 may happen.


PS Sajo you'd better switch Cannavaro and Bergomi.



iamgine vs b1imtf.
The key here is the flanks. With b1imtf's Totti and Del Piero being both two very central players (and hardly willing to track back), and iamgine having two excellent flanks (especially the left one with N.Santos and Best, but also the right one with Messi drifting in from wide and leaving room for Maicon). On the other hand iamgine's defending in the flanks will be a problem too, but no threat is expected to come from b1imtf's team there, except Dani Alves and Leonardo advancing from behind, but they will have to focus on defense as well.
Very close, but I give the nod to iamgine.

[dunksby]

I added an updated tactics explanation to my earlier post btw.

[dunksby]

I really wanted to give waseem a chance till I saw mentions of players Neville and Van Bronckhorst, that made my choice very easy. I'm going with Sajo.
I was torn on b1's last matchup since both of them were pretty close and not very well drafted. iamgine will have his own defensive problems to deal with and that crowded offense will create scrappy possessions. Still I'm going with iamgine for drafting a better overall team by a healthy margin.

[cos88]

you guys can still vot. tomorrow i'll post the remaining 2 matchups.

[LJJ]

Sajo and Waseem is probably the closest matchup so far.
Sajo did a cheeky thing, recreating mostly the 1970 Brazil team which is known as one of the greatest teams of all time with their creative and peculiar 4-6-0 lineup. While Waseem picked a team with all players who played in this century, picking not the most efficiently in terms of talent.

So I agree that Sajo has a significant talent advantage (Bronckhorst, Neville and especially Campbell are nothing special), but I'm not a big fan of his lineup to be honest. Ibra is more of a pure striker than Tostao, and he doesn't fit well in this offensive style (as much evidenced by his time in Barcelona). He's a bad fit. Also Savic seems like a lot more offensive of a player than Gerson. So I pick Waseem's Modern boys with their dominance in midfield. Unlike the other team Waseem's has tons of space to properly build their offense and a team that is a lot more dynamic on both sides of the ball.


Iamgine versus b1imtf isn't all that close if you ask me. I don't think Puskas is the best fit with Best and Messi and I also think Figueroa is a bad pick. That said all three of Iamgine's strikers are just a step above all of b1's strikers. With Best playing directly against D. Alves and Messi playing directly against Leonardo the outcome wouldn't be pretty. So iamgine.

[b1imtf]

Wassem.

[Bosnian Sajo]

Ibrahimovic's time in Barca should have nothing to do with this, that was one off season he had and the style of play on that team isn't the same as it is on this team. I thought we were looking at these players in their primes?

Susic (not savic.....) being a better offensive player than gerson should not at all be a hindrance on this team, if anything it is much better for the team. Gerson wasn't the defensive mid on the team, he was the brains. He would make the important passes, which is exactly what Susic is well known for. He makes the team work better by getting the ball to either wing or striker with ease. I knew picking Susic was a bad idea, not because he doesn't fit (he fits very well and is the perfect player to have in the middle of this team being a true playmaker), but because none of you seem to know what kind of player he was.

Yall trying to say Wassem's midfield is better than mine is like saying the Suns 06-07 had a better offense than the Spurs 06-07...it's true, but why the hell does it matter when I didn't focus on having 4 guys in the middle of the field, instead I actually have Wings....something that Wassem's team is missing :oldlol:

[waseem780]

I have players who can drift to the wing (eto,rivaldo,ronaldo) but I won't need them to play on the wings , My players will keep 60%+ possession offensively and defensively my team are capable of defending his wingers.

[Bosnian Sajo]

I have players who can drift to the wing (eto,rivaldo,ronaldo) but I won't need them to play on the wings , My players will keep 60%+ possession offensively and defensively my team are capable of defending his wingers.

http://this11.com/boards/abGwjReahu.jpg

first of all, I guarantee you wouldn't have 60% possession Waseem. Secondly, you are acting like you have divine fullbacks who can both run up the field and come down and shutdown Rivelino, Jairzinho, and Carlos Alberto. Your fullbacks are what give me this win. Whenever one of them goes up to attack or whatever you want them to do, that leaves a huge hole on your already weak defense.

[Bosnian Sajo]

BTW, for the other matchup going on I take Iamgine over B1.

[Jasi]

I have players who can drift to the wing (eto,rivaldo,ronaldo) but I won't need them to play on the wings , My players will keep 60%+ possession offensively and defensively my team are capable of defending his wingers.
You are not going to have 60% possession with Davids and Scholes in your midfield.

[LJJ]

Ibrahimovic's time in Barca should have nothing to do with this, that was one off season he had and the style of play on that team isn't the same as it is on this team. I thought we were looking at these players in their primes?

Susic (not savic.....) being a better offensive player than gerson should not at all be a hindrance on this team, if anything it is much better for the team. Gerson wasn't the defensive mid on the team, he was the brains. He would make the important passes, which is exactly what Susic is well known for. He makes the team work better by getting the ball to either wing or striker with ease. I knew picking Susic was a bad idea, not because he doesn't fit (he fits very well and is the perfect player to have in the middle of this team being a true playmaker), but because none of you seem to know what kind of player he was.

Yall trying to say Wassem's midfield is better than mine is like saying the Suns 06-07 had a better offense than the Spurs 06-07...it's true, but why the hell does it matter when I didn't focus on having 4 guys in the middle of the field, instead I actually have Wings....something that Wassem's team is missing :oldlol:

His name is Safet Susic. I guess I created a new mononym hehe.

Anyway, it's true none of us watched Susic play because the dude played in the French League at a time when the French League wasm't about much in Europe and he is completely untested against top-level competition. But either way, every source says he's an attacking midfielder which makes him more offensive than Gerson, which is my point of criticism. You should have axed either Zlatan or Susic for someone with a more box to box role I feel.

Zlatan was in his peak-prime during his time at Barca. He was used wrongly: as a team player who had to do more than simply create his own chances and be the direct focal point of attack. Which is what his role would be on this team I feel (much like Tostao). He's just not the most suited for that role, he's not a great team player.

Your team doesn't have wings. Carlos Alberto is a winger. Every other offensive player on your team is heavily inclined towards the center. Waseem actually has more wingers because Both Neville and Van Bronckhorst can fill the wings if absolutely necessary.

Your team is great, dude. I just like Waseem's balance a little better.

[waseem780]

My full-backs are high IQ players , they aren't gonna make mistakes , they know when to defend and when to go forward(if they need to at all)

[waseem780]

You are not going to have 60% possession with Davids and Scholes in your midfield.
:biggums: Haha

[b1imtf]

My team sucks :banana: :banana: :banana:

[Bosnian Sajo]

But either way, every source says he's an attacking midfielder which makes him more offensive than Gerson, which is my point of criticism.

I'm not arguing that he is an attack minded midfielder, I'm saying its dumb that that is something to criticize. Gerson was the PLAYMAKER of that 1970 team more than anything, which is exactly what Susic is for this team. A playmaker, and a better one than Gerson I guarantee you that. I don't want him to be defensive, Dunga is my defensive mid, I don't need more than one considering my team is offensively focused.



Zlatan was in his peak-prime during his time at Barca. He was used wrongly: as a team player who had to do more than simply create his own chances and be the direct focal point of attack. Which is what his role would be on this team I feel (much like Tostao). He's just not the most suited for that role, he's not a great team player.







Striker: Zlatan Ibrahimovic...need I say more? :lol You all know what he is good at, and I want him to do exactly that for this team: score goals. Let Zlatan be golden.

What are you talking about LJJ, I am asking nothing more from Ibra than to be the tip of the ice berg and just be blasting in goals any way possible. Jairzinho and Rivelino, who are wings btw, yes I expect them to attack and cut through the middle (like any legendary winger i.e. Ronaldo, Messi, etc.) but the main reason I picked them is because they are fantastic crossers and can get Ibra/Zico open at any time. For you to say Waseem has more wingers than my team is just appalling, I don't see where you are coming from at all.

Only problem I have with your posts LJJ is that you are pointing out my flaws and Waseem's strengths, yet you let Waseem's flaws (which IMO are much bigger than mine) go unnoticed.

[Bosnian Sajo]

My full-backs are high IQ players , they aren't gonna make mistakes , they know when to defend and when to go forward(if they need to at all)

Everyone picked in this draft are high IQ players, I don't think you can be one of the best all time if you didn't have knowledge of the game. Are we making obvious statements now so people can be like "yea, he's right about that...he gets my vote!"

In that case:

Casillas has good reactions
Ibra is highly skilled at moving his foot to strike the ball into the net
Cannavaro is great at defending


And your fullbacks wont make mistakes? Come on now, son.

[alenleomessi]

ibra has never been as good as he is now

[cos88]

iamgine 6-0 safe to say he is in the semis


i'll post a new matchup tonight to make this faster as the draft started some time ago

[LJJ]

I'm not arguing that he is an attack minded midfielder, I'm saying its dumb that that is something to criticize. Gerson was the PLAYMAKER of that 1970 team more than anything, which is exactly what Susic is for this team. A playmaker, and a better one than Gerson I guarantee you that. I don't want him to be defensive, Dunga is my defensive mid, I don't need more than one considering my team is offensively focused.

What are you talking about LJJ, I am asking nothing more from Ibra than to be the tip of the ice berg and just be blasting in goals any way possible. Jairzinho and Rivelino, who are wings btw, yes I expect them to attack and cut through the middle (like any legendary winger i.e. Ronaldo, Messi, etc.) but the main reason I picked them is because they are fantastic crossers and can get Ibra/Zico open at any time. For you to say Waseem has more wingers than my team is just appalling, I don't see where you are coming from at all.

Only problem I have with your posts LJJ is that you are pointing out my flaws and Waseem's strengths, yet you let Waseem's flaws (which IMO are much bigger than mine) go unnoticed.

The stuff you are explaining is precisely the stuff I criticed, my assumptions weren't wrong, we just have a difference of opinion. Jairzinho and Rivellino were played as wingers on the 1970 squad, but they naturally were central offensive midfielders. You can look this up. The claim to Zagallo's fame is that he chose the most talented players and made it work, rather than choosing the players to fit a certain system.

1970's Brazil essentially played with 4 natural CAM's and two natural CM's (And no real striker). You changed this to 1 natural CM, 4 natural CAM's and one natural CF. I don't the removal of a CM to accomodate Susic. And I don't like the removal of the teamplayer Tostao role (who would drop back to midfield to accomodate for Pele, Jairzinho and Rivellino moving in centrally) for Zlatan who doesn't put in work for his teammates at all.


I don't think it's fair that you say I didn't criticize Waseem's squad. Like I said in my main post, I think there is a significant gap in talent between your squad and Waseem's, in your favor. I don't think it needs to be elaborated much that Carlos Alberto is a more talented player than Neville, or that Cannavaro is better than Campbell. That's quite evident. I just think the tactical and balance advantage Waseem has is slightly bigger than the talent advantage you have.

[cos88]

dunksby vs Overdrive


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9665796&postcount=139

vs

http://insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9634022&postcount=968

[cos88]

last matchup:

Jasi vs alenleomessi


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9644337&postcount=86

vs

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9644180&postcount=76

other two matchups from the previous page that you can still vote ( if you didn't do until now )


Bosnian Sajo vs waseem780


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9644837&postcount=97

vs

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9639885&postcount=1064


dunksby vs Overdrive


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9665796&postcount=139

vs

http://insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9634022&postcount=968

[kc16]

Overdrive and Jasi get my votes, still thinking on the other matchup.

[cos88]

Bosnian Sajo vs waseem780 3-3 at the moment, first to 5 goes through

[Budadiiii]

Bosnian Sajo.

[cos88]

alen and jasi play the same tactic, still a mystery why deco is selected for team alen, he tried to explain but it doesn't work for me. hristo and hagi are 4 times better than deco and they were not selected. he didn't say almost anything about his tactic, he just wants total football, nothing about the roles of the trio up front or about the fullbacks. rijkaard versatile but he was better as a defensive midfielder, also nordahl played 60 years ago in the fast paced, 4-2-4 romantic football and i think having ruud gullit with help from deco and cruyff is enough in the final third. switch him with a player that could play more wide would be better for this team.


not sure why but jasi's squad seems more like a team to me, players more compatible and with the best trio in the draft maradona - baggio - di stefano which are better and more compatible than the other trio.

so Jasi for me in a close one.

[cos88]

in the dunksby vs Overdrive matchup i'll go with dunksby in the closest matchup so far in this tournament. this could go either way without any question.

ramos not in his best position is a very bad move considering this is an all time draft and also i'm not a fan of donadoni as your selected winger but very little bad things you can say about his ideas and players. dunksby's team is just a 1% better, the workrate, stamina and versatility is insane.

[alenleomessi]

dunskby

[Rubio2Gasol]

Drunksby, Jasi, Waseem.

[Jasi]

It's nice that people got back to voting in this thread, but it would be nicer if they gave a bit of explanation too :D I guess the point of these threads is to talk football, more than to win a made up tournament. At least for me it is.


dunskby vs Overdrive.
I have the feeling the overall talent level in both team could have been higher.
Considering this, I vote Overdrive: I really like his concept and I think he picked players that fit. Ok, S.Ramos... he could have selected a better RB. On the other hand I have to stand up for Donadoni who is being underrated here. He was an outstanding RW. Great skills, great workrate, excellent dribbler, both feet, could either reah the goal line and cross, or drift in and shoot or pass, would consistently track back. Hell, he was a pillar in Sacchi's Milan i.e. one of the most spectacular and dominant teams ever.
Dunksby's team will play better in this matchup rather than the previous one I believe, but all in all I think there's lower quality and consistency their his game.

[Overdrive]

also i'm not a fan of donadoni as your selected winger

No offense, but lol. Care to elaborate?

Will vote later or tomorrow when I'm not on my phone.

[cos88]

No offense, but lol. Care to elaborate?

Will vote later or tomorrow when I'm not on my phone.

nothing personal against donadoni, a top 10 right winger in the history but i just don't like the wings pairing of donadoni - overmars. both pacey good dribling players a little too similar to me. instead of one of them i would put an inside forward someone who could score more than he did.

[LJJ]

I'm going with Overdrive also. I think his 5 main players on offense are extremely well balanced, I'm really digging that lineup. Overmars and Batistuta would be golden getting serviced by Seedorf and especially Laudrup.

Also, the amount of damage a CB like Koeman can do while getting covered by Muller or Cantona scares me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbvnAUweepw

Of course, his fullback selection is weak. Especially with these wings, having proper fullbacks would give him a trump over the extremely narrow teams in this draft.

That said I still don't get dunksby's team. Not a huge fan of Cantona and Tigana and Chumpitaz. The rest of the players are great, but they largely are a poor fit together.

[kc16]

Waseem is my last pick.

[Overdrive]

nothing personal against donadoni, a top 10 right winger in the history but i just don't like the wings pairing of donadoni - overmars. both pacey good dribling players a little too similar to me. instead of one of them i would put an inside forward someone who could score more than he did.

Uh got that wrong, thought you were downplaying him as a player. Considered Luis Enrique, who could play wing or striker, but I thought that would take away too much from my left side.

[b1imtf]

Jasi and Overdrive.

[Overdrive]

I take Sajo, can't decide between the other two. I think they're 1a and 1b teams in the draft.

[waseem780]

alenleomesi and Overdrive

[cos88]

Bosnian Sajo vs waseem780 4-5 budadii vote does not count as he is a troll and has somekind of a feud with waseem as posted in the first page.

dunksby vs Overdrive 3-5

Jasi vs alenleomessi 4-1

iamgine already in the semis.



after i wake up all the teams with a better record will go through. ( in 12 h or so when i go online )

[Bosnian Sajo]

Bosnian Sajo vs waseem780 4-5 budadii vote does not count as he is a troll and has somekind of a feud with waseem as posted in the first page.

dunksby vs Overdrive 3-5

Jasi vs alenleomessi 4-1

iamgine already in the semis.



after i wake up all the teams with a better record will go through. ( in 12 h or so when i go online )

**** that, I was the first to say he wasn't allowed to be in the drafts, not like we are best friends. 5-5 for me and waseem.

[Bosnian Sajo]

It's nice that people got back to voting in this thread, but it would be nicer if they gave a bit of explanation too :D I guess the point of these threads is to talk football, more than to win a made up tournament. At least for me it is.




This, excluding LJJ, all of the votes for Waseem had no explanation whatsoever.

[dunksby]

I'm going with Overdrive also. I think his 5 main players on offense are extremely well balanced, I'm really digging that lineup. Overmars and Batistuta would be golden getting serviced by Seedorf and especially Laudrup.

Also, the amount of damage a CB like Koeman can do while getting covered by Muller or Cantona scares me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbvnAUweepw

Of course, his fullback selection is weak. Especially with these wings, having proper fullbacks would give him a trump over the extremely narrow teams in this draft.

That said I still don't get dunksby's team. Not a huge fan of Cantona and Tigana and Chumpitaz. The rest of the players are great, but they largely are a poor fit together.

It's nice that people got back to voting in this thread, but it would be nicer if they gave a bit of explanation too :D I guess the point of these threads is to talk football, more than to win a made up tournament. At least for me it is.


dunskby vs Overdrive.
I have the feeling the overall talent level in both team could have been higher.
Considering this, I vote Overdrive: I really like his concept and I think he picked players that fit. Ok, S.Ramos... he could have selected a better RB. On the other hand I have to stand up for Donadoni who is being underrated here. He was an outstanding RW. Great skills, great workrate, excellent dribbler, both feet, could either reah the goal line and cross, or drift in and shoot or pass, would consistently track back. Hell, he was a pillar in Sacchi's Milan i.e. one of the most spectacular and dominant teams ever.
Dunksby's team will play better in this matchup rather than the previous one I believe, but all in all I think there's lower quality and consistency their his game.
I don't get your opinions, you don't even have an opinion on my team, a skim over my players and saying basically 'Meh' is copping out. Whether it is due to reasons such as being ignorant of my players' abilities and or personal bias (a Dutch and an Italian hating on a German oriented team) or just being too lazy and wanting to drop a vote.
I'm sorry if I'm blunt about this but I can't take such analyses seriously.

[Rubio2Gasol]

Overdrive's team is incredibly weak defensively, and Drunksby's is ridiculously solid through core. and there's a strong German element. Lacks width somewhat, and will get stuck in attack, but the probabilities favor him.

All you need is manager like say, Hidalgo.

[LJJ]

I don't get your opinions, you don't even have an opinion on my team, a skim over my players and saying basically 'Meh' is copping out. Whether it is due to reasons such as being ignorant of my players' abilities and or personal bias (a Dutch and an Italian hating on a German oriented team) or just being too lazy and wanting to drop a vote.
I'm sorry if I'm blunt about this but I can't take such analyses seriously.

I thought I had elaborated on your squad previously, but I guess it's not enough for you. Just ask for some further elaboration, you don't need to cop out and just dismiss someone else's opinion as ignorance or nationalism.

I just see some pretty major offensive problems for your team. Defensively it’s one of the best teams in the draft. The best defensive right back in the draft, good stoppers centrally and a very defensively oriented, workhorse midfield. It’s a good, compact team defensively other than the three strikers who do nothing for you.

Offensively you have very little coverage on the flanks and the center is overcrowded and has chemistry issues. The right side is practically deserted. Vogts, Klinsmann, Cantona and non of your midfielders really want to go there. Opposing teams can almost disregard that entire side. As your strikers you have two players who purely play centrally inside the box and need service, and one player who doesn’t need service but doesn’t really do anything for anyone else either. They are all center forwards.
On midfield you have Tigana and Pirri, both of whom could do pretty good offensively if you had players ahead of them who held the ball and waited for them to join the offense. In the same way Klinsmann and Muller need service from midfield and wingers, Tigana and Pirri need service from the strikers and wingers to function offensively. They aren’t players who set up the offense, they are players who join the offense. And your strikers aren't the type of strikers who facilitate that.

You have Breitner who can provide some playmaking and you have Brehme who can run up and cross the ball, but it’s not enough to make up for the lack of synergy between the rest of the players.

[Jasi]

I don't get your opinions, you don't even have an opinion on my team, a skim over my players and saying basically 'Meh' is copping out. Whether it is due to reasons such as being ignorant of my players' abilities and or personal bias (a Dutch and an Italian hating on a German oriented team) or just being too lazy and wanting to drop a vote.
I'm sorry if I'm blunt about this but I can't take such analyses seriously.
Sorry man, I admit I was just being lazy here, because I had already written a lot about your team in the previous round.
This doesn't mean that my vote has no ground or comes from national bias.
Like I said, there is a basic, quite relevant flaw in your team, which is the lack of top-level playmaking.
The strikers are good finishers but cannot create. Cantona only creates for himself. None of your midfielders is a born playmaker, despite all of them being good with the ball.
The FBs cannot create, only run and receive passes and cross.
It is a solid team but because of what I just said it just lacks the "all-time greatness".

[Overdrive]

Overdrive's team is incredibly weak defensively, and Drunksby's is ridiculously solid through core. and there's a strong German element. Lacks width somewhat, and will get stuck in attack, but the probabilities favor him.

All you need is manager like say, Hidalgo.

I have to object here. My defensive line isn't Carlos Alberto, Baresi, Beckenbauer, Maldini, but Sammer, Koeman and Nadal are no slouches either. I picked players fitting my plan and a plan fitting my players, that's why I think many teams here fail on chemistry. I picked solid workers as FBs not one of those Brazilians who only played FB, because there can't be 10 midfielders. I already explained I don't need them to create. On the other hand, how can dunksby create? His midfield and trio of 9s is way to seperated. He fields a kick and rush outfit that has 3 strikers who want the ball flat on their feet.

Don't get me wrong I like his team, but Cantona is a negative here, especially facing Sammer who could mark him if he liked.

[dunksby]

I thought I had elaborated on your squad previously, but I guess it's not enough for you. Just ask for some further elaboration, you don't need to cop out and just dismiss someone else's opinion as ignorance or nationalism.

I just see some pretty major offensive problems for your team. Defensively it’s one of the best teams in the draft. The best defensive right back in the draft, good stoppers centrally and a very defensively oriented, workhorse midfield. It’s a good, compact team defensively other than the three strikers who do nothing for you.

Offensively you have very little coverage on the flanks and the center is overcrowded and has chemistry issues. The right side is practically deserted. Vogts, Klinsmann, Cantona and non of your midfielders really want to go there. Opposing teams can almost disregard that entire side. As your strikers you have two players who purely play centrally inside the box and need service, and one player who doesn’t need service but doesn’t really do anything for anyone else either. They are all center forwards.
On midfield you have Tigana and Pirri, both of whom could do pretty good offensively if you had players ahead of them who held the ball and waited for them to join the offense. In the same way Klinsmann and Muller need service from midfield and wingers, Tigana and Pirri need service from the strikers and wingers to function offensively. They aren’t players who set up the offense, they are players who join the offense. And your strikers aren't the type of strikers who facilitate that.

You have Breitner who can provide some playmaking and you have Brehme who can run up and cross the ball, but it’s not enough to make up for the lack of synergy between the rest of the players.

Sorry man, I admit I was just being lazy here, because I had already written a lot about your team in the previous round.
This doesn't mean that my vote has no ground or comes from national bias.
Like I said, there is a basic, quite relevant flaw in your team, which is the lack of top-level playmaking.
The strikers are good finishers but cannot create. Cantona only creates for himself. None of your midfielders is a born playmaker, despite all of them being good with the ball.
The FBs cannot create, only run and receive passes and cross.
It is a solid team but because of what I just said it just lacks the "all-time greatness".
http://this11.com/play/abGyU5haD.png

1- I got Brehme on the left flank who is more than capable of servicing my strikers, deadly crosses aside, he is a perfect set-piece taker. My team is deadly on corners and free-kicks with him taking them. On the right I got Vogts making runs to support Brietner who is also a world class wing in his own right.
2- Cantona is not a pure center forward, I dunno why you keep to this idea dude played his best behind forwards. Dude is a genius who would feast on Overdrive's defense.
3- Muller is more than capable of creating for himself with his bursts of runs and quickness, a master at finding space to free himself.
4- Brietner and Tigana are formidable passers and distributors, both smart and savvy on finding open teammates.
5- Contrary to your belief my team has good chemistry as the characteristics of my players compliment them. I got team players as well as individually brilliant ones.
6- Like I said, for whatever reason my players are hugely underrated in your views which I cannot help but argue, as futile as it seems.

ETA: Disrupting opponent's build up play and attack from there is another specialty of my team that's gonna play an additional major factor.

[LJJ]

1- I got Brehme on the left flank who is more than capable of servicing my strikers, deadly crosses aside, he is a perfect set-piece taker. My team is deadly on corners and free-kicks with him taking them. On the right I got Vogts making runs to support Brietner who is also a world class wing in his own right.
2- Cantona is not a pure center forward, I dunno why you keep to this idea dude played his best behind forwards. Dude is a genius who would feast on Overdrive's defense.
3- Muller is more than capable of creating for himself with his bursts of runs and quickness, a master at finding space to free himself.
4- Brietner and Tigana are formidable passers and distributors, both smart and savvy on finding open teammates.
5- Contrary to your belief my team has good chemistry as the characteristics of my players compliment them. I got team players as well as individually brilliant ones.
6- Like I said, for whatever reason my players are hugely underrated in your views which I cannot help but argue, as futile as it seems.

I don't think you can call me ignorant when you call Breitner a great winger (??? he never played there) on the right side (??? he never played there), V

[cos88]

Bosnian Sajo vs waseem780 3-3 at the moment, first to 5 goes through


waseem was the first to 5 even if we count budadiii's vote which OP said at the start it doesn't count. waseem in the semis sorry it's been 1 month we have to finish this. i'll make the matchups soon.

[Rubio2Gasol]

I have to object here. My defensive line isn't Carlos Alberto, Baresi, Beckenbauer, Maldini, but Sammer, Koeman and Nadal are no slouches either. I picked players fitting my plan and a plan fitting my players, that's why I think many teams here fail on chemistry. I picked solid workers as FBs not one of those Brazilians who only played FB, because there can't be 10 midfielders. I already explained I don't need them to create. On the other hand, how can dunksby create? His midfield and trio of 9s is way to seperated. He fields a kick and rush outfit that has 3 strikers who want the ball flat on their feet.

Don't get me wrong I like his team, but Cantona is a negative here, especially facing Sammer who could mark him if he liked.

I don't particularly disagree with much there, except Sammer on Cantona. Cantona is as ovverated as they come, and I agree, someone like Laudrup or Zidane would be much better in that role.

But my thing is midfield and defense, his is just remarkably strong and you see that they'll play well together. Everyone behind the forwards is tactically and physically astute, and they'll just control the game more.

I think the gap between Sammer and the other two mids is too big, too much space for Cantona to operate in. He's less talented than your mids, but your mids will have it harder.

My main issue is your team is built to control games, to dominate, but I just don't think they will. I think the other team has more balance and chemistry.

[Jasi]

Matthias Sammer suffers from the Undeserved Ballon d'Or syndrome, but let's not underrate him, he was a great player.
If anything, we can argue his selection as a CDM, considering that he preferred a box-to-box role when he played as a MF and then became a sweeper. So we can "infer" he'd be (very) good at CDM, but he never really played as such.

[cos88]

http://www.ultraimg.com/images/K1Qas.png


Overdrive vs Iamgine

http://insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9634022&postcount=968

vs

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9646543&postcount=2




http://www.ultraimg.com/images/K1Qas.png


Waseem780 vs Jasi

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9639885&postcount=1064

vs

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9644337&postcount=86

[cos88]

http://www.ultraimg.com/images/K1Qas.png


Waseem780 vs Jasi

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9639885&postcount=1064

vs

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9644337&postcount=86

[waseem780]

cos88 I really appreciate your activeness in this thread while I was busy. Anyways my vote is Overdrive. Even though iamgine has that legend trio attack , I still feel like Overdrive's team is more well-rounded and will function better.

[Overdrive]

I don't particularly disagree with much there, except Sammer on Cantona. Cantona is as ovverated as they come, and I agree, someone like Laudrup or Zidane would be much better in that role.

But my thing is midfield and defense, his is just remarkably strong and you see that they'll play well together. Everyone behind the forwards is tactically and physically astute, and they'll just control the game more.

I think the gap between Sammer and the other two mids is too big, too much space for Cantona to operate in. He's less talented than your mids, but your mids will have it harder.

My main issue is your team is built to control games, to dominate, but I just don't think they will. I think the other team has more balance and chemistry.

How would Cantona get those balls to operate? He would have to go way to deep. If the gap between Sammer and the MF is big for my team then the one between Cantona and his MF is absolutely huge.

[Rubio2Gasol]

It is, but I think one is more important than the other. I acknowledged they'd struggle to create, but their guys are more prepared for that. Guys like Muller and Klinsman were just relentless, didn't get disillusioned without the ball.

Cantona can drop deep, he has all the elements neccessary to link up. Actually being a creative force is another story, but he can definitely move well enough to help you consolidate control.

Your centre backs have their hands full if Brehme manages to get the ball.

I didn't see the original thread, but may I ask why Seedorf? So many other guys you could put and I think it would totally change the balance in your favor.

[dunksby]

[QUOTE=LJJ]I don't think you can call me ignorant when you call Breitner a great winger (??? he never played there) on the right side (??? he never played there), V

[dunksby]

Matthias Sammer suffers from the Undeserved Ballon d'Or syndrome, but let's not underrate him, he was a great player.
If anything, we can argue his selection as a CDM, considering that he preferred a box-to-box role when he played as a MF and then became a sweeper. So we can "infer" he'd be (very) good at CDM, but he never really played as such.
That's the problem with some, we are talking about all-time greats, I'm pretty sure Sammer would have been great in that position. Just because he didn't play there doesn't mean his style would not be suited to that role. I guess that's the difference between conservative coaching and aggressive risk taking one.

[LJJ]

I meant an attacking wingback, that's where he started his game and recognized for it. He wouldn't have problems running the flank occasionally to suit my team's needs. You want to continue to believe in your strict positional prejudiced views that's fine, I just don't see football players as stuck figures on a play board.

Well that's exactly what I mean with a bad fit. "He would do well moving to the right midfield and the right wing, because he used to be an excellent left back". If you have to place someone in a completely foreign position to make it work, it's probably not a very good fit.

If Mourinho played Ashley Cole on the right wing next match you would probably think someone put acid in his coffee.

[dunksby]

Well that's exactly what I mean with a bad fit. "He would do well moving to the right midfield and the right wing, because he used to be an excellent left back". If you have to place someone in a completely foreign position to make it work, it's probably not a very good fit.

If Mourinho played Ashley Cole on the right wing next match you would probably think someone put acid in his coffee.
I gtg, I knew you would say something like that, I will address your point later.

[Overdrive]

It is, but I think one is more important than the other. I acknowledged they'd struggle to create, but their guys are more prepared for that. Guys like Muller and Klinsman were just relentless, didn't get disillusioned without the ball.

Cantona can drop deep, he has all the elements neccessary to link up. Actually being a creative force is another story, but he can definitely move well enough to help you consolidate control.

He can but Berti won't go to the wing infront of the ball and go "backdoor". He would score goals, but in the 2nd line. Breitner plays more in the center, too, so basically if Cantona receives the ball deep the only way to bring it up would be Brehme - M

[Bosnian Sajo]

smh, I was sure that I would win this thing. Jasi was my only real worry because I knew I had to get through him to get to the finals. I feel robbed :oldlol:

[Overdrive]

I already explained I liked Jasi's team the best along alen's. Waseem has a good team, but Jasi takes this tournament now imo.

[cos88]

how about you start voting so we can finnish this and start a new one.

[Overdrive]

how about you start voting so we can finnish this and start a new one.

Go ahead, I already did.

[alenleomessi]

you deco hating sons of b*tches, f*ck you all
lol kidding i lost to a guy twice my age who knows a thing or two about football so no worries

[cos88]

http://www.ultraimg.com/images/K1Qas.png


Waseem780 vs Jasi

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9639885&postcount=1064

vs

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9644337&postcount=86


del bosque vs ancelotti and 4-2-3-1 vs 4-2-3-1. a little surprised waseem got through, i voted against him in the closest vote in this tournament.

not the best teams on D but very capable on O with Baggio - Maradona - di Stefano the best trio as i said before. jasi's samuel - passarella defensive duo is very good and compatible with one strong defender and a small quicker leader with great positioning in passarella. they would have fantastic chemestry if you ask me. waseem midfield is better he did a great job there. not the best wing backs in the competition for both guys.


overall if you ask me both sajo and dunksby have teams in the same tier as the two above, with sajo the best team in the competition. in this matchup i'll go with Jasi

[Overdrive]

One of my favourite moments in football, not for the goal, which is awesome in its self, but the "celebration" and as he's on my team I felt the need to post this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OP3zOjnZI1s

[cos88]

http://www.ultraimg.com/images/K1Qas.png


Overdrive vs Iamgine

http://insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9634022&postcount=968

vs

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9646543&postcount=2




another good matchup, i think i voted against iamgine from the first round as i considered the other team better even with the second best trio in the competition. i always liked overdrive's team as it is the most balanced in the tournament, with potential great chemestry. still think sajo and dunksby teams are better but they were eliminated.

but it's a matter of matchup not who has the best team which i don't know if some of you understand. overdrive wins this one i think he has a more balanced team, a more complete team overall with great advantage on the wings causing the opposing wing backs problems and very few chances of advancing in the oposing third.

[dunksby]

Well that's exactly what I mean with a bad fit. "He would do well moving to the right midfield and the right wing, because he used to be an excellent left back". If you have to place someone in a completely foreign position to make it work, it's probably not a very good fit.

If Mourinho played Ashley Cole on the right wing next match you would probably think someone put acid in his coffee.
I'm tired and since I lost I don't wanna go into detail anymore, playing a position and being effective in that position is all about a player's characteristics of play and his physical attributes. I drafted the most versatile and physically gifted team of the draft to be able to mess with my line up and still get high performance.
About your example, I just have this to say: Philip Lahm.

[Jasi]

Overdrive.
It's a tie for me really, because they both could dominate the game, depending on the night: incredible talent (puskas+messi, wtf) vs great team concept, that total football with '90s interpreters. Could go either way.
The tie breaker is maybe a detail, the Lippi pick is just not consistent with the type of players.

[cos88]

http://www.ultraimg.com/images/K1Qas.png


Overdrive vs Iamgine 3-0

http://insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9634022&postcount=968

vs

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9646543&postcount=2




http://www.ultraimg.com/images/K1Qas.png


Waseem780 vs Jasi 0-2

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9639885&postcount=1064

vs

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9644337&postcount=86



voting still on for the next 24h

[alenleomessi]

ill go with iamgine because the matchup is close and he doesnt deserve to get sweeped
jasi on the other one fairly easy

[dunksby]

Overdrive's defense will be torn apart by iamgine's striking force, no questions on this matchup. I dunno how Waseem got to the semi-finals, he will be just overwhelmed by Jasi's team. Never thought the last four would be such matchups to decide though.

[dunksby]

another good matchup, i think i voted against iamgine from the first round as i considered the other team better even with the second best trio in the competition. i always liked overdrive's team as it is the most balanced in the tournament, with potential great chemestry. still think sajo and dunksby teams are better but they were eliminated.

but it's a matter of matchup not who has the best team which i don't know if some of you understand. overdrive wins this one i think he has a more balanced team, a more complete team overall with great advantage on the wings causing the opposing wing backs problems and very few chances of advancing in the oposing third.
Thanks for giving props to my team, it's good seeing someone gets how great those 11 could be even in a hypothetical situation like this. :applause:

[cos88]

Overdrive vs Iamgine 3-2

Waseem780 vs Jasi 0-4


you can still vote especially for the first matchup which is close

[cos88]

http://www.ultraimg.com/images/rYCE.jpg

[cos88]

if nothing happens jasi and overdrive cand make their updated matchup adjustments in the next 6 h before i make the final matchup.

[Jasi]

For the final, my coach Ancelotti will make an adjustment in our defensive setup.
Like I said, our MFs can switch indifferently depending on the opponent, and well this time it is needed. Since Overdrive's team is especially good on the wings, I'll put Luisito Suarez in the central midfield position (he played that many years at Inter) and De Rossi at centre-left.

So it looks like this.
http://this11.com/play/abGBAyTaS.png

This will malke the midfield shifts from right to left more effective in covering the flanks. It's something that regularly happens with good 4-3-1-2s.


In particular, when they attack on their right, we will defend like this.
http://this11.com/play/abGBAP3aej.png

I won't post the corresponding image for the left-side attacks, but I am sure you all get it. Schweini covers the flank with Suarez and De Rossi in the centre.

Nothing changes in our offensive setup instead.

[Overdrive]

First of all I didn't think I'd make the finals. I thought dunksby would win against me.

Now onto the finals. As I already explained I won't adjust. I hate teams that make the finals and then shake up their tactics according to the opponent and then lose in a bad fashion.

I think my team with its current setup could pull an upset vs Jasi's, but as it's a vote instead of a real match it's very unlikely.

[cos88]

http://www.ultraimg.com/images/IlyF.jpg

http://www.ultraimg.com/images/tx5LJ.jpg
http://www.ultraimg.com/images/EZmf.jpg

http://www.ultraimg.com/images/mACfb.jpg


overdrive vs jasi

http://insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9634022&postcount=968

vs

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9694659&postcount=223


http://www.ultraimg.com/images/1piaE.jpg

[cos88]

can't get wrong with either team as both can win this game any given night. if this was a 7 game series it would go to game 7. already said through the tournament what players i like, what players i don't what pairings i like on the floor and what i don't.


for overdrive it's ramos, i understand his idea of having a defensive RB but he is not the best solution. overall i had a problem with donadoni would want somekind of an inside forward to help batistuta. he has the best balanced team in the competition with the very few flows.
voted against him vs dunskby and i really think dunksby and sajo have teams equal or even better as both of you.

for jasi the offensive trio is what stands up but i have huge problems with the midfield trio which is a bad idea and just makes the midfield more crowded. switch one of this 3 with a winger and one of baggio and di stefano with another winger and this is the perfect team for me. this kind of formation is bad and this is why nobody is playing it with only one player on each wing. sometimes it will be 2 vs 1 and the rb or lb zambrotta or junior will not have the chance to advance.

i'm going with OVERDRIVE to win this competition.

[alenleomessi]

i think overdrive made a nice run as a 'darkhorse' but its clearly jasi for me here

[cos88]

http://www.ultraimg.com/images/IlyF.jpg

http://www.ultraimg.com/images/tx5LJ.jpg
http://www.ultraimg.com/images/EZmf.jpg

http://www.ultraimg.com/images/mACfb.jpg


overdrive vs jasi

http://insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9634022&postcount=968

vs

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9694659&postcount=223


http://www.ultraimg.com/images/1piaE.jpg



1-1
voting still on for the next 24h until we start a new draft

[b1imtf]

i think overdrive made a nice run as a 'darkhorse' but its clearly jasi for me here
Same here.

[EnoughSaid]

Jasi's offense is just too much. All of those 4 players together would almost be unstoppable. Just based on that fact you have to take his team. So my choice is Jasi.

[cos88]

jasi 3-1 overdrive



voting still on for the next 17h until we start a new draft

[cos88]

this thread after everybody got voted out in the tournament:

http://www.ultraimg.com/images/7Oj0C.jpg

[kurple]

jasi....


wrong thread

[LJJ]

Well I think I've said a lot about these teams already. I probably like both of these teams the best in the draft. Overdrive didn't pick the top talents, but his offensive synergy is really good. I feel a lot of his players are underrated by the posters here. Laudrup is probably the best AM available in a draft like this, he's one of the only legends who was individually brilliant while also being completely unselfish. An assist king playing from the centre, now that's a rarity among top players and invaluable on a draft like this. Frankly, Laudrup would have been an X-factor on a lot of teams in this draft. I heard people complain about Seedorf. Seedorf led three different teams to 4 CL titles as one of the top men of those respective squads. I don't even care which of his midfield contemporaries you throw at Seedorf, because he has a case against all of them.

That said this is about matchups too. Overdrive's formation with true wingers on both sides would give a lot of teams trouble, but Jasi's team is one the teams that is best equipped to deal with this. His team has a lot of chemistry on defense. Of course it's not a done thing to stop Laudrup, Donadoni, Batistuta and Overmars, but Overdrive doesn't have the most raw firepower in this draft and Jasi's team would be effective at slowing that office down.

The other way around that's not really the case. Koeman and Nadal are a know defensive duo, but the team they partnered for was far from known for their defensive prowess. Ramos is a liability at RB. They have to go up against Di Stefani, Baggio and freaking Maradona.
So I think Jasi has the defensive answers to the other team while Overdrive doesn't.

[cos88]

jasi....


wrong thread

so you vote for jesi in this tournament, right? in that case it's 3-3 :lol

[Jasi]

so you vote for jesi in this tournament, right? in that case it's 3-3 :lol

Er... how is it 3-3? It was 3-1 for me and then I scored two more goals :lol

[cos88]

Er... how is it 3-3? It was 3-1 for me and then I scored two more goals :lol


lol you're right i was pretty sure overdrive had 3-1 :confusedshrug:

[cos88]

i'll let this for 7 more hours and then the winner will be crowned. :rockon:

[cos88]

http://www.ultraimg.com/images/EX2WA.jpg
http://www.ultraimg.com/images/IlyF.jpg

http://www.ultraimg.com/images/QEsAz.png



http://www.ultraimg.com/images/OzlGm.png
jasi 5-1 overdrive


some fun facts:


1. Jasi selected Maradona with the 4th pick, behind Messi, Ronaldo and Pele.

2. Overdrive had only the 15th pick and selected first Laudrup.

3. Overdrive had the 3rd coach pick and selected Hapel while jasi with the 14th pick got Ancelotti.

4. Jasi was down 1-0 and 2-1 in the first round vs Kurple.

5. That matchup vs Kurple was the hardest for him as he only got 2 votes against him for the rest of the competition.

6. Overdrive was down 3-1 vs dunskby in the quarterfinals but 4 consecutive votes go him to the semis.

7. Many people, including myself said that other teams were on the same tier as the finalist, teams like Sajo's or Dunskby's.

8. The best offensive trios in the tournament were Iamgine's Messi-Puskas-Best, Jasi's Maradonna-Baggio-di Stefano or Waseem's Ronaldo - Etoo - Rivaldo.

[Jasi]

Wow cos, nice stuff :cheers:

Carletto surely needed this prize after the stress of El Clasico :lol

I'd mention that Di St

[alenleomessi]

congrats jasi

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_YEl9bNJ-nnY/TBpvqOXAbdI/AAAAAAAAB9o/PwUUy9NkSeg/s1600/Monica-Bellucci-Waterfall-1-1024x768.jpg

[Jasi]

Now that's a prize.
The trophy to the coach Carletto, Monica to the GM. Deal.

[kc16]

Congratulations Jasi, well deserved.

[Jasi]

Congratulations Jasi, well deserved.
:cheers:

[b1imtf]

FIFA rigged this :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Jasi]

FIFA rigged this :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Damn. I just submitted my vote in the other draft.
Now it will look as if it's a personal revenge :oldlol:
(of course it is not)

[b1imtf]

Damn. I just submitted my vote in the other draft.
Now it will look as if it's a personal revenge :oldlol:
(of course it is not)
Hahaha congrats man! :cheers:

[alenleomessi]

Damn. I just submitted my vote in the other draft.
Now it will look as if it's a personal revenge :oldlol:
(of course it is not)
hehe why do you think i posted the monica pic :basketball

[b1imtf]

hehe why do you think i posted the monica pic :basketball
Gotta start bribing the rest of the judges :coleman:

[Overdrive]

Congrats, as said many times I think your team was the best tied with alen.

Overall I think the top 3 were Jasi, alen and Sajo who had the players, fitting tactic and chemistry. A little notch below dunsky and me. Dunksby had the players, but I didn't like the chemistry, for me the chemistry was there, but I picked my defense too late.