What would be Wilt's averages today?

[Rocketswin2013]

Prime Wilt, age 20-30. Honestly, I see no better than 27-18-3 with 4 blocks 60% shooting. And that's reaching IMO.

[JohnFreeman]

Judging by what Cavaliersftw says, 80-100-200 on 200% shooting

[oarabbus]

26ppg/14reb/3blk

1.8 women/day
.25 trannies/day (the times they are a changin)
3 Mountain Lions

[Milbuck]

Around 50-60 windows cleaned per day.

Seriously though, 33/14/4/4/1 on ~60% shooting.

[CavaliersFTW]

Judging by what Cavaliersftw says, 80-100-200 on 200% shooting
might as well put quotes on it

[Rose'sACL]

Around 50-60 windows cleaned per day.


This

[Eric Cartman]

Slightly above average Kevin Love stat wise.

[Budadiiii]

25/12/3 on 56% shooting.

[LoneyROY7]

*see Javale McGee*

[Rose'sACL]

might as well put quotes on it
i really believe wilt would average 50points-20 rebounds in today's league.
Your highlights videos have shown how much smaller and slower today's players are plus the fact that so much racism exists today causing league to be close to 75-80% non-white.

[inclinerator]

100 orders taken 50 burgers made and 40 would you like fries with that

[JohnFreeman]

Around 50-60 windows cleaned per day.

Seriously though, 33/14/4/4/1 on ~60% shooting.
http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/takei-laugh.gif

[Warfan]

29/16/2.5/3.5

Might depend on what type of team he's on as well, like if he's on a bad team or contending one.

[Smook A.]

24/15/4

[ABfor3]

27ppg,12 rpg,3 blks

[JohnFreeman]

30|17|5 on 65% shooting

[CavaliersFTW]

shameless plug of my latest video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eNdapKU494

[T_L_P]

(the times they are a changin)

GOAT Dylan song :applause:

[fpliii]

Whatever he wants.

[bdreason]

It would depend on the team. If we're talking a solid playoff caliber team?


26ppg on 58%
15rpg
3apg
4bpg

[J Shuttlesworth]

26/11/4 on 56% shooting



















in the D League.

In the real NBA, he'd be a scrub who gets 10 minutes a game every other night.

8/3/-2 on 35% shooting

[CavaliersFTW]

Whatever he wants.
most reasonable answer so far :lol

[CavaliersFTW]

Seriously though, who knows what his role would be, his approach to scoring points and passing varied so widely offensively I don't think it's easy to just paint a number on him... he could either lead the league in scoring with incredible volumes or inversely lead the league in PASSING (for non guards) while shattering records for accuracy yet still maintaining a 20+ volume... He did what he wanted then, and his numbers varied wildly because of it, they'd likely do the same today. The volume of points depended on his role but the most consistent things he did in his time was lead the league in rebounding, minutes, accuracy, blocked shots sometimes by comical gaps between him and the next best and he had strong MVP runs every season... so, in a nutshell maybe that's what he'd be doing today too.

[inclinerator]

10 women partners
2 kittens killed
50 lb bench press
5 pts 5 rebs 5 assist

[Round Mound]

Peak: 37 PPG (56% FG) 18.5 RPG 5.5 APG 4.5 BPG

[jongib369]

Points is hard.....Give the man a lot of attempts on a team thats dangerous to double anyone he could put up as much as 35 ppg at 51-3%... you'd probably see him around 25 at 58-64%, capable of scoring more but he'd likely never be given that role....Could possibly even score more than 35 but his FG% drop wouldnt be worth it... 14-18RPG, 4 BPG, 4-6 APG

[CavaliersFTW]

Wilt averaged about 7 lofty NBA records per season... I'd imagine he'd do about the same today given all the new advanced stats they keep track of.

[salwan]

He would at the very least be the best rim protector in the nba.

[LoneyROY7]

Wilt averaged about 7 lofty NBA records per season... I'd imagine he'd do about the same today given all the new advanced stats they keep track of.

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2183253/sillynbaplayers.gif

[kennethgriffin]

he'd have a hard time averaging over 20-21ppg with around 14-15rpg tops


honestly... the reason theres no dominant bigmen left isnt because theres none on planet earth. its just a different game with different rules

big pounding 7 footers cant dominate this new soft era built to make every pg in the nba look like god



on a team built to win. he would honestly get 20-21ppg.... if he wanted to average 30.. that team would be horrible

[AirFederer]

19/16 but no rings. 41% FT's.

[swagga]

22/17/4.5, 45% FG , would be a great second option on offensive.

In the MVP conversation.

[Deuce Bigalow]

What does Dwight Howard average?

[julizaver]

Prime Wilt, age 20-30. Honestly, I see no better than 27-18-3 with 4 blocks 60% shooting. And that's reaching IMO.


26ppg/14reb/3blk

1.8 women/day
.25 trannies/day (the times they are a changin)
3 Mountain Lions



29/16/2.5/3.5

Might depend on what type of team he's on as well, like if he's on a bad team or contending one.


27ppg,12 rpg,3 blks


It would depend on the team. If we're talking a solid playoff caliber team?


26ppg on 58%
15rpg
3apg
4bpg


he'd have a hard time averaging over 20-21ppg with around 14-15rpg tops


With all that statlines he will be the best big man in today's game - 41 years after his retirement - dwight howard is currently 18 and 13 and his career best was 22 and 13 ...:lol

[Psileas]

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2183253/sillynbaplayers.gif

Given that these midgets are considered, along with the other midget, Love, the best big men in the NBA today, I'll say Wilt wouldn't even bother to play today. Maybe he'd drop 40-20 in his first day, then be like "bitches, please!", step into his time machine and travel into a real center era, like his own or the mid 80's-mid 90's and play vs some real competition.

[Demitri98]

32/16/4/3/1 on ~60%

[BoutPractice]

Whatever he wants (he could easily lead the league in scoring - as could several other players - if he focused on that), but in his championship year, something like 21 pts, 16 rebounds, 5 assists and 3 blocks on over 60% seems like a reasonable statline compatible with maximized team results.

[Prometheus]

People want to talk a lot of shit about a weak era... the video footage of Wilt shaking hands with O'Neal should be your first clue that this guy was a monster. Like the rest of you, I'm obviously too young to have watched him play while I was growing up, but I've watched enough game footage to say that Wilt was the real deal. He is without a doubt the greatest big man who ever lived.

In today's game?

32 PPG on 55%
16 RPG
4 BPG

He would be the front-runner for MVP every year, and would likely edge LeBron for the media title of greatest in the game

but he'd get 20/9/1 in the playoffs lolol

[SHAQisGOAT]

Peak Chamberlain (1967) on a good team, give or take, 22/15/5 on over 60% from the field, with DPOY level defense

Prime Wilt focused more on scoring, around 31/14/3 on 55% from the field, with great defense

He would definitely lead the league in scoring on great efficiency from the field, if he "wanted" to. At the top in FG% too, while being the best rebounder. If he was more focused on passing and teams double-teamed too much, he would be #1 in assists for bigmen.

Of course those numbers would dip in the post-season :lol
*waits for lazeruss' response*

[Marlo_Stanfield]

34/17/5/5 on 55-60%:applause: :applause: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[KingBeasley08]

19/14/4/2 58%

0 Championships

[LeGOAT]

11 ppg, 9 rebounds, 1 assists, 2 blocks, 17% from the ft line

[Marchesk]

Wilt would be the best player in today's NBA, with all due respect to Lebron and Durant. A true 7'1" guy who was that athletic, long and durable with the skillset he had would be contending for league leader in multiple categories every season - points, rebounds, blocks and FG%. And he was a good passing big. Even with the 3pt line and rules favoring guards, Wilt would be the best player. There is no center since prime Shaq who compares, and even prime Shaq didn't lead the league in as many categories as Wilt did. Wilt was certainly a better shot blocker and rebounder than Shaq, although O'Neal did have those three fantastic finals.

The other thing is that Wilt played during one the best center eras ever, despite the stupid trolling about 6'7" white centers. Only the 90s compares.

[Jailblazers7]

I think somewhere around 30/15 would be right. The guy is obviously going to dominate the glass and I don't see anyone in the league who could handle him in the post. He had much better touch around the basket than C's these days and a lot of bigs struggle to guard the post because they are used to playing against face-up players.

[fpliii]

11 ppg, 9 rebounds, 1 assists, 2 blocks, 17% from the ft line
try-hard

English

Noun

try-hard (plural try-hards)

(derogatory) A person usually of little talent who tries hard, especially through imitation, to succeed, usually to gain fame or popularity.

[Andrei89]

Peak: 37 PPG (56% FG) 18.5 RPG 5.5 APG 4.5 BPG


So....
Basically he would be the GOAT?


ISHots at their best.

Dude played against white 6 foot 4 centers and whenever he faced real competition such as Bill Russel he would be a scrub.

8 ppg/9rpg/2apg tops.

[SHAQisGOAT]

So....
Basically he would be the GOAT?


ISHots at their best.

Dude played against white 6 foot 4 centers and whenever he faced real competition such as Bill Russel he would be a scrub.

8 ppg/9rpg/2apg tops.

You're no better, saying that type of ignorant stuff, in fact your comment was even worse...

[ImKobe]

21 ppg 14 rpg 3 bpg seasons during his prime while also being top 5-10 in FG%.

He was basically the Shaq of his era, only that unfortunately there was this guy Bill Russell, who made him his bitch.

[CavaliersFTW]

So....
Basically he would be the GOAT?


ISHots at their best.

Dude played against white 6 foot 4 centers and whenever he faced real competition such as Bill Russel he would be a scrub.

8 ppg/9rpg/2apg tops.
62 points and 55 rebounds against bill russell

averaged 28 and 28 against him

what a scrub

[Andrei89]

You're no better, saying that type of ignorant stuff, in fact your comment was even worse...

Shaq would completely dominate WILT at any times. IF Shaq would have played in Wilt era I would have no doubt he would score 60 ppg and grab 30 rig at ease.

Get out of here with that stuff. Sure, Wilt was an athletic freak, but the competition he faced was beyond terrible.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Shaq would completely dominate WILT at any times. IF Shaq would have played in Wilt era I would have no doubt he would score 60 ppg and grab 30 rig at ease.

Get out of here with that stuff. Sure, Wilt was an athletic freak, but the competition he faced was beyond terrible.

Yea, this discussion is over. You have no idea what you're talking about and I'm not gonna stand here trying to change your (ignorant) mind.

[aj1987]

Shaq would completely dominate WILT at any times. IF Shaq would have played in Wilt era I would have no doubt he would score 60 ppg and grab 30 rig at ease.

Get out of here with that stuff. Sure, Wilt was an athletic freak, but the competition he faced was beyond terrible.
No doubt. Shaq averaged 30 on 21 shots and 10 FT's. Wilt got to his 50 PPG on 40 and 17.

[Marchesk]

Shaq would completely dominate WILT at any times. .

Have you seen pictures of Wilt next to Shaq or shaking shaking Shaq's hand? Wilt was a big dude. By all accounts he was quite strong. And it's well established that he was athletic.


IF Shaq would have played in Wilt era I would have no doubt he would score 60 ppg and grab 30 rig at ease

If Shaq played in Wilt's era, he'd have to play at higher tempo with more minutes. And he wouldn't get away with bowling defenders over on the way to the rim.

[Marchesk]

No doubt. Shaq averaged 30 on 21 shots and 10 FT's. Wilt got to his 50 PPG on 40 and 17.

That season was probably the highest pace season of all time. Wilt still shot over 50%. And he played all but 8 minutes of the entire season. Did Shaq have that sort of stamina?

[Marchesk]

Sure, Wilt was an athletic freak, but the competition he faced was beyond terrible.

Bill Russell was an athletic freak too. Russel and Thurmond are widely considered two of the GOAT big defenders. There were other HOFers at the center position Wilt played against like Bob Lanier and Kareem.

It's not like today's era. The 60s and early 70s was one of the best big eras of all time, along with the 90s.

[PsychoBe]

dnp - women's decision

[Psileas]

Isn't it funny how trolls like Andrei89 are all so religiously psyched about Wilt facing "terrible competition" as if they're talking about something they've extensively researched and scrutinized, as if they are some kind of gurus of the era, yet no-one of them is able to form a 5-line argument not based on coulda-woulda-shoulda or any comprehensive list?

Andrei89 and co, grace us with a favor: Make a list of Wilt's 6'4 opponents. We'll be waiting.

(In before "come on, we were just kidding").

[Marchesk]

Isn't it funny how trolls like Andrei89 are all so religiously psyched about Wilt facing "terrible competition" as if they're talking about something they've extensively researched and scrutinized, as if they are some kind of gurus of the era, yet no-one of them is able to form a 5-line argument not based on coulda-woulda-shoulda or any comprehensive list?

Andrei89 and co, grace us with a favor: Make a list of Wilt's 6'4 opponents. We'll be waiting.

(In before "come on, we were just kidding").

At least Deuce tried the unconventional trolling tactic of pretending to be a Mikan stan and then a Wilt stan. Or whatever he was doing. The trolls in this tread aren't even trying. Where is Millwad?

[abuC]

That season was probably the highest pace season of all time. Wilt still shot over 50%. And he played all but 8 minutes of the entire season. Did Shaq have that sort of stamina?


Shaq weighed more during his prime years, and most importantly why does nobody talk about the fact Shaq looks like a much more fluid athlete than Wilt? Look at the movements and the way Wilt backed people down, it was so stiff and robotic, nothing in any clip of Wilt looks as fluid & powerful as this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLDXw5lC-LM

[CavaliersFTW]

Shaq weighed more during his prime years, and most importantly why does nobody talk about the fact Shaq looks like a much more fluid athlete than Wilt? Look at the movements and the way Wilt backed people down, it was so stiff and robotic, nothing in any clip of Wilt looks as fluid & powerful as this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLDXw5lC-LM
Wilt crab dribbled into the middle to release his finger roll... it's an effective simple and methodical back down. And the release of his shots alone, such as the finger roll, are the antithesis of stiff and robotic, Wilt's finger rolls in slow motion look about as graceful and difficult as any shot ever attempted in basketball. And you need to watch my recent scoring video if you think Wilt didn't also use up and unders and spins to the baseline. And you need to re-watch and re-study how Shaq actually played and scored the bulk of his points if you think he also didn't use ugly crab dribbles to get in the middle. Your influenced by watching too many career highlight plays of Shaq and not enough of his bread and butter moves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsrvL8w8XKk

[Marlo_Stanfield]

Andrei like all Wade stans is a truly TERRILE poster.
my goodness:facepalm :facepalm

[Psileas]

And the release of his shots alone, such as the finger roll, are the antithesis of stiff and robotic, Wilt's finger rolls in slow motion look about as graceful and difficult as any shot ever attempted in basketball.

Hakeem and Kareem, who are widely considered the most graceful C's ever, were among the very few bigs that I've ever seen attempt a finger roll. Hakeem had taken 1 such shot in a recent video I'd seen of him and missed badly, it looked like a very awkward attempt, probably due to the fact that his hand wasn't big enough to easily palm the ball. Kareem attempted such shots a bit more frequently (including the basket just before getting injured in the 1980 Finals), and he still wasn't looking as fluid in doing so as Wilt.

[riseagainst]

Andrei like all Wade stans is a truly TERRILE poster.
my goodness:facepalm :facepalm

lmao. You mean lebron stans.

[Marchesk]

Shaq weighed more during his prime years, and most importantly why does nobody talk about the fact Shaq looks like a much more fluid athlete than Wilt? Look at the movements and the way Wilt backed people down, it was so stiff and robotic, nothing in any clip of Wilt looks as fluid & powerful as this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLDXw5lC-LM

I'll admit that Shaq was very explosive and quick in his younger years. But Wilt's KU highlights from the NCAA tournament that Cavs put together showed a very active, fast, athletic Wilt. It just depends on what video. It's been pointed out that some of Wilt's highlights were from the playoffs where he looks stiff due to injuries.

[r0drig0lac]

29/16/2.5/3.5

Might depend on what type of team he's on as well, like if he's on a bad team or contending one.

this is the closest I think he would, perhaps with 3.5 apg for the question, he would be the top scorer and best rebounder the league year after year, and probably the best blocker

[CavaliersFTW]

I'll admit that Shaq was very explosive and quick in his younger years. But Wilt's KU highlights from the NCAA tournament that Cavs put together showed a very active, fast, athletic Wilt. It just depends on what video. It's been pointed out that some of Wilt's highlights were from the playoffs where he looks stiff due to injuries.
Did you see my recent scoring video by chance Marchesk? If not I recommend checking it out

[aj1987]

That season was probably the highest pace season of all time. Wilt still shot over 50%. And he played all but 8 minutes of the entire season. Did Shaq have that sort of stamina?
Well, Shaq's highest os 40 MPG, which is significantly lower than the number of minutes that Wilt played, so I have no idea.

Wilt shot 50.6%. That's actually pretty average for a center (Wade and LeBron are over 55%, not that it matters). When you look at the number of shots he took, it's actually pretty bad. 39.5 shots and 17 FT's to get to 50.4?

[CavaliersFTW]

Well, Shaq's highest os 40 MPG, which is significantly lower than the number of minutes that Wilt played, so I have no idea.

Wilt shot 50.6%. That's actually pretty average for a center (Wade and LeBron are over 55%, not that it matters). When you look at the number of shots he took, it's actually pretty bad. 39.5 shots and 17 FT's to get to 50.4?
:facepalm

[MavsSuperFan]

23ppg,13 rpg,2 blks

[CavaliersFTW]

23ppg,13 rpg,2 blks
OP means in his prime, not in his 50's

[MavsSuperFan]

OP means in his prime, not in his 50's
Against modern nba players not people who had to work second jobs in the off season

[CavaliersFTW]

Against modern nba players not people who had to work second jobs in the off season
Night in and night out there are no legitimate centers in the modern era and even the few that there are can't put their hands on him, Wilt would destroy teams in the paint like a Bull in a China shop

[MavsSuperFan]

There are no legitimate centers in the modern era, Wilt would destroy teams in the paint like a Bull in a China shop
Or any nba player that could play today (wilt qualifies) in this league.

http://oi33.tinypic.com/25q817l.jpg

In that league there were maybe 2-3 guys out of every starting 5 that could make the league today.

[CavaliersFTW]

Or any nba player that could play today (wilt qualifies) in this league.

http://oi33.tinypic.com/25q817l.jpg

In that league there were maybe 2-3 guys out of every starting 5 that could make the league today.
? you aren't even posting a gif of the same decade Wilt played in at least put forth some sort of effort to make a point :oldlol:

[Calabis]

I think what people fail to realize is what make people like Wilt great(besides talent) is the fact that he is relentless at whatever he does.ala Kobe, jordan, james

With that said his numbers would drop just due to the 3pt chucking game of today...if he was used as the main guy he would drop 30 a game easy...no one is going to stop him in today's league or slow him down.

[Deuce Bigalow]

? you aren't even posting a gif of the same decade Wilt played in at least put forth some sort of effort to make a point :oldlol:
Wilt played in 1959.

http://oi33.tinypic.com/25q817l.jpg

[Calabis]

Or any nba player that could play today (wilt qualifies) in this league.

http://oi33.tinypic.com/25q817l.jpg

In that league there were maybe 2-3 guys out of every starting 5 that could make the league today.

Huge difference is those guys where creating the game without a blueprint...where as today they copy various aspects of certain guys game. If u think those guys would not be way better today then they where back then...then ur being silly

[SHAQisGOAT]

Wilt shot 50.6%. That's actually pretty average for a center (Wade and LeBron are over 55%, not that it matters). When you look at the number of shots he took, it's actually pretty bad. 39.5 shots and 17 FT's to get to 50.4?

:biggums: :biggums:

Yea but Wilt was scoring 50 ppg lmao. And he was actually 2nd in FG% that year, which is absolutely crazy given that he was scoring like 20 ppg more than the 2nd best scorers.

39.5 shots to get 50.4 points is bad??? :wtf: So I guess that scoring 30 ppg on 20 shots is terrible huh? :facepalm Also gotta consider that efficiency drops with volume, this dude was scoring 50 ppg not even 40 or 30.

Anyways, with today's pace - and coaches most likely wouldn't play him that close to his minutes back in the day - he wouldn't be taking that amount of shots (and he was like just taking every shot in 1962, nobody denies that), or scoring 50, obviously, I don't think anyone has ever said that, but he could definitely be the leader in points while at the top in FG%, if he was focused on scoring (although his best "version" was in 1967 imo), say similar to Shaq. Keep in mind that Dwight scored 23 ppg on 59% once, and Wilt was bigger, more skilled, smarter and even more athletic.. Think about that.

[sundizz]

Well, considering how absolutely absolutely piss poor of a free throw shooter he was teams would consistently hack him. He was a pathetic 51.1% regular season and an even worse 46.5% shooter in the playoffs.

Additionally, he'd get double teamed a lot a lot a lot. I think he still crushes in other categories, but definitely not in the ppg category like he did in his era. The much more sophisticated defensive schemes would make it tough for him to go crazy on offense. He's not much of a dribbler either.

My prediction is that for his 5 peak years (say 27 to 31) he'd average:

22.4 ppg, 16.2 rpg, 3.5 apg on 51.5% and 53% with 3.7 bpg. So basically a beast and either the 1st or 2nd most impactful player in the league for a decade (depending on who else is around). Though I hate on him a lot, his pure length, athleticism and endurance would enable him to be a game changer like few others. If stiff Roy Hibbert can be such a game changer Wilt would just be crushing it.

I think Wilt's biggest problem is that he is so big and lanky that people don't seem to truly understand that. I think the only person that would bully him though is Shaq. Shaq was just much much quicker and more explosive from what I've seen (and yes I've watched Cavs 34 min mixtape). Shaq had some Thor level explosion and speed. Difference than endurance and vertical ability. Shot out of a gun explosiveness.

I think the biggest thing is that he has a motor also. He could play all day and all night. I think currently, DeAndre Jordan is the best example of what Wilt could do. I honestly think DJ could put up 35 ppg and 25 rpg in Wilt's era.

[aj1987]

:facepalm
Yeah. Definitely facepalm worthy. Dude was the biggest stat padder. Actually, they should put a picture of Wilt next to the word "stat padding" in the dictionary.


:biggums: :biggums:
Yea but Wilt was scoring 50 ppg lmao. And he was actually 2nd in FG% that year, which is absolutely crazy given that he was scoring like 20 ppg more than the 2nd best scorers.

39.5 shots to get 50.4 points is bad??? :wtf: So I guess that scoring 30 ppg on 20 shots is terrible huh? :facepalm Also gotta consider that efficiency drops with volume, this dude was scoring 50 ppg not even 40 or 30.
He was shooting at 53% TS. Did you forget about FT shooting? So, yeah.

BTW, you need to factor in the volume as well. That would be like taking 25 shots and 7 FT's to get to 30 points. Not 20 shots on 30 points. :facepalm

[MavsSuperFan]

? you aren't even posting a gif of the same decade Wilt played in at least put forth some sort of effort to make a point :oldlol:
Cousy was still considered a star during wilts time.

Anyways its fine keep your idea that wilt's nba was = to the modern nba.
if you want to believe that the lack of financial rewards, racial quotas , etc didnt result in a weaker league than whatever.

I mean if you believe santa exists that really does not hurt anyone else.

[CavaliersFTW]

Wilt played in 1959.

http://oi33.tinypic.com/25q817l.jpg
Nope, his era was 1960-1973

That gif comes from 1956.

Wilt is as much a 1950's player as Baron Davis and Metta World Peace are 1990's players.

[MavsSuperFan]

Huge difference is those guys where creating the game without a blueprint...where as today they copy various aspects of certain guys game. If u think those guys would not be way better today then they where back then...then ur being silly
I acknowledge that those players are greater than todays players.
I just refuse to accept that they were better.

Eg. The spitfire is a greater fighter aircraft than the F-22 raptor because of historical accomplishments. one F-22 raptor would destroy a whole squadron of spitfires

Eg. Isaac newton is arguably the greatest scientist of all time. However most university professors today understand more about gravity than he did. While Newton is certainly greater than them, they are indisputably better physicists than him, in that they understand more about the natural universe than he did.

Newton also believe in alchemy

Eg. Mikan was a greater player than Robinson or Ewing, but they are certainly better than him.

[CavaliersFTW]

I acknowledge that those players are great than todays players.
I just refuse to accept that they were better.

Eg. The spitfire is a great fighter aircraft than the F-22 raptor because of historical accomplishments. one F-22 raptor would destroy a whole squadron of spitfires

Eg. Isaac newton is arguably the greatest scientist of all time. However most university professors today understand more about gravity than he did. While Newton is certainly greater than them, they are indisputably better physicists than him, in that they understand more about the natural universe than he did.

Newton also believe in alchemy

straw man straw man straw man

Eg. Mikan was a greater player than Robinson or Ewing, but they are certainly better than him.
We believe Wilt Chamberlain was far better than any center playing today, and most of us believe this to be true by significant margin. None of us claimed anything else you proposed. Stick to arguing the points WE make, stop making up fake arguments as it is a sign of desperation as if you CAN'T attack the points we make. What your doing is a fallacy and it will get you nowhere fast.

[Rose'sACL]

Cousy was still considered a star during wilts time.

Anyways its fine keep your idea that wilt's nba was = to the modern nba.
if you want to believe that the lack of financial rewards, racial quotas , etc didnt result in a weaker league than whatever.

I mean if you believe santa exists that really does hurt anyone else.
he won't stop complaining. I am pretty sure he is trolling to take his mind off of the fact that the best thing about any Cleveland sports team left in 2010 and is actually doing pretty well.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Well, considering how absolutely absolutely piss poor of a free throw shooter he was teams would consistently hack him. He was a pathetic 51.1% regular season and an even worse 46.5% shooter in the playoffs.

Additionally, he'd get double teamed a lot a lot a lot. I think he still crushes in other categories, but definitely not in the ppg category like he did in his era. The much more sophisticated defensive schemes would make it tough for him to go crazy on offense. He's not much of a dribbler either.

My prediction is that for his 5 peak years (say 27 to 31) he'd average:

22.4 ppg, 16.2 rpg, 3.5 apg on 51.5% and 53% with 3.7 bpg. So basically a beast and either the 1st or 2nd most impactful player in the league for a decade (depending on who else is around). Though I hate on him a lot, his pure length, athleticism and endurance would enable him to be a game changer like few others. If stiff Roy Hibbert can be such a game changer Wilt would just be crushing it.

I think Wilt's biggest problem is that he is so big and lanky that people don't seem to truly understand that. I think the only person that would bully him though is Shaq. Shaq was just much much quicker and more explosive from what I've seen (and yes I've watched Cavs 34 min mixtape). Shaq had some Thor level explosion and speed. Difference than endurance and vertical ability. Shot out of a gun explosiveness.

I think the biggest thing is that he has a motor also. He could play all day and all night. I think currently, DeAndre Jordan is the best example of what Wilt could do. I honestly think DJ could put up 35 ppg and 25 rpg in Wilt's era.

So Dwight (also a poor FT shooter and not much of a dribbler) was able to put up 23 ppg on 59% and Chamberlain couldn't do better? :lol Again, Wilt was bigger, more skilled, smarter and even more athletic, and with that I'm also implying he could pass the ball really well while reading the defense, unlike Dwight.. It "costs" considerably more to double-team a player like Wilt than a player like Dwight, adding more to the point.

[Rose'sACL]

So Dwight (also a poor FT shooter and not much of a dribbler) was able to put up 23 ppg on 59% and Chamberlain couldn't do better? :lol Again, Wilt was bigger, more skilled, smarter and even more athletic, and with that I'm also implying he could pass the ball really well while reading the defense, unlike Dwight.. It "costs" considerably more to double-team a player like Wilt than a player like Dwight, adding more to the point.
dwight is one of the best passers out of double-triple teams. i am not even sure why i am replying to someone who is so insecure that he has to type everything in bold.

[SHAQisGOAT]

I acknowledge that those players are greater than todays players.
I just refuse to accept that they were better.

Eg. The spitfire is a greater fighter aircraft than the F-22 raptor because of historical accomplishments. one F-22 raptor would destroy a whole squadron of spitfires

Eg. Isaac newton is arguably the greatest scientist of all time. However most university professors today understand more about gravity than he did. While Newton is certainly greater than them, they are indisputably better physicists than him, in that they understand more about the natural universe than he did.

Newton also believe in alchemy

Eg. Mikan was a greater player than Robinson or Ewing, but they are certainly better than him.

I can also say that without Newton (and others) those professors wouldn't have that type of understanding .. Or that if Newton was born in this era and also dedicated his life to science he would still be one of the greatest minds, regardless, and more intelligent than those professors.

I can also say that today's best music can't hold a candle to the best music from back in the day, or even movies (that's why they keep making thousands of remakes lol).

I can say various things along those lines, doesn't bring much to this discussion though imho, and the same goes for what you've said.

[SHAQisGOAT]

dwight is one of the best passers out of double-triple teams. i am not even sure why i am replying to someone who is so insecure that he has to type everything in bold.

Didn't say he was below average, when it comes to that, but he can't do it like Wilt or even that close (maybe I didn't use the right words though). He can do it but I also wouldn't call him one of the best. Furthermore, he takes way too long to read what the defense is giving him, he can't hold on to the ball and keep it out of opponents' hands, looks confused sometimes - doesn't know if he should hit a cutter or the outside man - plus also lacks some footwork.. that's why for his career he averages less than 2 apg with more than 3 to's per game, and always needs lots of teammates to spread the floor around.
And I'm not even sure why I am replying to someone who is so ignorant (as proven before) and also so insecure to keep bringing that worthless shit up, again and again :facepalm :lol

[MavsSuperFan]

We believe Wilt Chamberlain was far better than any center playing today, and most of us believe this to be true by significant margin. None of us claimed anything else you proposed. Stick to arguing the points WE make, stop making up fake arguments as it is a sign of desperation as if you CAN'T attack the points we make. What your doing is a fallacy and it will get you nowhere fast.

1. Calabis seemed to be making a different point than you are making. He seemed to be arguing that players from the 60s could be greater than today's players, which I actually agree with. And gave a few examples where i felt being greater was not the same as being better.

2. My main point was that:

1. the league in the 1960s lacked financial rewards of todays league.
2. There were racial considerations when forming teams
3. There was zero international talent in the league.

I am arguing that these 3 reasons are why the league was much weaker in the 1960s. And that stats accumulated in this era, were easier than they would have been against a better league.

[MavsSuperFan]

he won't stop complaining. I am pretty sure he is trolling to take his mind off of the fact that the best thing about any Cleveland sports team left in 2010 and is actually doing pretty well.
These guys that believe the NBA hasn't improved over time are the equivalent of the flat earth society and creationists.

They just refuse common sense.

[oarabbus]

Larry Bird > Wilt

[Prometheus]

I acknowledge that those players are greater than todays players.
I just refuse to accept that they were better.

Eg. Isaac newton is arguably the greatest scientist of all time. However most university professors today understand more about gravity than he did. While Newton is certainly greater than them, they are indisputably better physicists than him, in that they understand more about the natural universe than he did.


Isaac Newton was the most dominant force in the history of mathematics and physics, and if peak Newton was around in today's era he would average 5 Nobel prizes per decade and would be universally recognized as the GOAT scientist.

[aj1987]

Isaac Newton was the most dominant force in the history of mathematics and physics, and if peak Newton was around in today's era he would average 5 Nobel prizes per decade and would be universally recognized as the GOAT scientist.
SHAQisGOAT already beat you to it. :oldlol:

These people believe all kinds of stories. Like Wilt throwing around players like rag dolls and stuff. Wilt wasn't throwing them around. They were flopping.

[Prometheus]

I understand where MavsSuperFan and others are coming from, and I believe it's obvious that in a vacuum, any modern NBA team would thoroughly crush any team from the 1960s.

But the argument that Wilt would become an average center or even just a good one would hold a lot more water if his averages were, say, equal to those of peak Shaq.

Wilt's numbers were so astronomically superb that to assume he would do anything less than dominate in ANY era is to over-compensate for the era discrepancy.

Of course he would not average 50 points and 25 rebounds in today's game. No one really believes that... But to project him as anything other than a highly dominant scorer and rebounder in today's era, the 00s, the 90s, or 50 years in the future is absolutely na

[oarabbus]

^ Bird is better

[Psileas]

I acknowledge that those players are great than todays players.
I just refuse to accept that they were better.

Eg. The spitfire is a great fighter aircraft than the F-22 raptor because of historical accomplishments. one F-22 raptor would destroy a whole squadron of spitfires

Eg. Isaac newton is arguably the greatest scientist of all time. However most university professors today understand more about gravity than he did. While Newton is certainly greater than them, they are indisputably better physicists than him, in that they understand more about the natural universe than he did.

Newton also believe in alchemy

straw man straw man straw man

Eg. Mikan was a greater player than Robinson or Ewing, but they are certainly better than him.

1) The big problem in comparing machines with people is that humans are adaptive beings, they're able to learn new tricks, become more knowledgeable, even appear smarter, etc. Machines can't do that. The Spitfire is based on older/worse technology than the F22 and, unless it changed everything and basically became something different, it wouldn't be able to adapt in today's battles. You take a 60's player and put him today and he has vastly better chances of still performing fine while remaining the same person, with the same skills and talent, because he learns from today's era and he develops a new set of skills that he already had but never needed or thought of developing, thus creating the false impression that he never had them. A player who shows an X amount of skills doesn't mean these are all the skills he has. It means these were the skills he had the time to/put the thought on developing. Dr.J wasn't necessarily incapable of dunking between the legs. Kareem wasn't necessarily incapable of shooting 3's. Cousy wasn't necessarily incapable of performing 2010's handles. They just didn't nee d to do it back then. And quite honestly, in 99% of cases, they wouldn't need to do it nowadays.

2) Today's scientists don't understand more about physics than Newton, they just get to learn more about physics and that's all. Nobody ever tried to explain to Newton modern, non-Newtonian physics and therefore, we have no right to claim that he understood less than today's scientists. My bet is, he was brilliant enough to be able to think way beyond his era. But here's the thing: Humans don't live much more than 80 years. There's not enough time (and health) available for us to show how far we can go.

[PsychoBe]

Isaac Newton was the most dominant force in the history of mathematics and physics, and if peak Newton was around in today's era he would average 5 Nobel prizes per decade and would be universally recognized as the GOAT scientist.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Sharmer]

Wilt would destroy Gasol or D12, and those guys are 18/10 players, so I'd say 30 15 5

[CavaliersFTW]

SHAQisGOAT already beat you to it. :oldlol:

These people believe all kinds of stories. Like Wilt throwing around players like rag dolls and stuff. Wilt wasn't throwing them around. They were flopping.
http://youtu.be/2eNdapKU494?t=3m47s

:facepalm riiiight :oldlol:

[aj1987]

http://youtu.be/2eNdapKU494?t=3m47s

:facepalm riiiight :oldlol:
What does that prove? It's just a shove? You acting like Wilt threw him out of the gym or something. :oldlol:

Did a good job selling the contact though.

http://youtu.be/2eNdapKU494?t=4m10s

Dat flop doe!

[Psileas]

Legendary flopper Oscar Robertson...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eSEhvgE3U4

[aj1987]

Legendary flopper Oscar Robertson...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eSEhvgE3U4
:oldlol:

Imagine if there was social media back then? LeBron gets called out for lesser stuff.

[CavaliersFTW]

What does that prove? It's just a shove? You acting like Wilt threw him out of the gym or something. :oldlol:

Did a good job selling the contact though.

http://youtu.be/2eNdapKU494?t=4m10s

Dat flop doe!
You don't see Wilt's hand grab Gus Johnon by the bicep and throw him into the corner of the court in the opposite direction he was trying to run? That's not a shove, that's a literal grab and "move him around like he was a rag doll" moment, you know, just another one of those capabilities that was likely a myth surrounding Wilt right?

[aj1987]

You don't see Wilt's hand grab Gus Johnon by the bicep and throw him into the corner of the court in the opposite direction he was trying to run? That's not a shove, that's a literal grab and "move him around like he was a rag doll" moment, you know, just another one of those capabilities that was likely a myth surrounding Wilt right?
The only thing I saw was Wilt using his arm to push of that dude.

http://i.imgur.com/4Oneeqe.png

[Sharmer]

Isaac Newton was the most dominant force in the history of mathematics and physics, and if peak Newton was around in today's era he would average 5 Nobel prizes per decade and would be universally recognized as the GOAT scientist.


You need a history lesson, he wouldn't rank in the top 5. He was a English aristocratic who status in society elevated his accomplishments in mathematics.

[oarabbus]

You need a history lesson, he wouldn't rank in the top 5. He was a English aristocratic who status in society elevated his accomplishments in mathematics.

No, I think you need a history lesson. He discovered Calculus along with Leibniz and was the first person to apply calculus to physics. His discoveries and contributions to the fields of mathematics and physics are immense.

[MavsSuperFan]

No, I think you need a history lesson. He discovered Calculus along with Leibniz and was the first person to apply calculus to physics. His discoveries and contributions to the fields of mathematics and physics are immense.
:applause: :applause:
and of course he was an aristocrat. Poor commoners were not educated back then.

[jongib369]

The only thing I saw was Wilt using his arm to push of that dude.

http://i.imgur.com/4Oneeqe.png
http://youtu.be/2eNdapKU494?t=3m54s


http://media.scout.com/Media/College_Mens_Basketball/81335_GJohnson2.JPG


http://www.wtop.com/emedia/wtop/25/2505/250563.jpg

[aj1987]

http://youtu.be/2eNdapKU494?t=3m54s

Looks pretty much like the dude exaggerated contact.

[Sharmer]

No, I think you need a history lesson. He discovered Calculus along with Leibniz and was the first person to apply calculus to physics. His discoveries and contributions to the fields of mathematics and physics are immense.


No, he falsely accused Leibniz of stealing his idea's and Leibniz lived a life of shame and died in obscurity.

Einstein is really the true genius, Newton was part of the super elite cronies.

[jongib369]

^ Bird is better
https://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m65p8lsMv01qbq8v8.png


Other than team accomplishments what did Bird do to impact a game more so than Chamberlain?

[oarabbus]

No, he falsely accused Leibniz of stealing his idea's and Leibniz lived a life of shame and died in obscurity.

Einstein is really the true genius, Newton was part of the super elite cronies.


Who is in your top 5 though?


Einstein
Euler
Gauss
? (Maxwell?)
?

Newton doesn't make the cut?

[jongib369]

Looks pretty much like the dude exaggerated contact.
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/61992/before-there-was-youtube-there-was-wilt

[plowking]

I have a hard time believing he averages over 30ppg today simply for the fact he was a poor free throw shooter, and they would simply hack him like they do Howard, Jordan, etc.

Something like 25-30ppg is realistic with 16 or 17rpg.

[CavaliersFTW]

I have a hard time believing he averages over 30ppg today simply for the fact he was a poor free throw shooter, and they would simply hack him like they do Howard, Jordan, etc.

Something like 25-30ppg is realistic with 16 or 17rpg.
not hard at all, he scored 50.4ppg on greater than 50% and 24ppg on an absolutely ridiculous 68.3% from the field... while also being 3rd in assists with 7.8 assists that season... 30ppg would literally be easy for Wilt, just give him the damn ball and get out of the way who cares if he goes to the line a lot it's just going to get the other team in foul trouble and make their night even more difficult

[oarabbus]

not hard at all, he scored 50.4ppg on greater than 50% and 24ppg on an absolutely ridiculous 68.3% from the field... while also being 3rd in assists with 7.8 assists that season... 30ppg would literally be easy for Wilt, just give him the damn ball and get out of the way who cares if he goes to the line a lot it's just going to get the other team in foul trouble and make their night even more difficult



LeBron could average Jordan type numbers if he wanted; it's just not conducive to winning, though. I have no problems believing Wilt's the best bigman in the game but clearly his numbers weren't translating to wins. If 30ppg is easy, you really think he could average 40ppg with modern coaching schemes and talent of surrounding cast?

[CavaliersFTW]

LeBron could average Jordan type numbers if he wanted; it's just not conducive to winning, though. I have no problems believing Wilt's the best bigman in the game but clearly his numbers weren't translating to wins. If 30ppg is easy, you really think he could average 40ppg with modern coaching schemes and talent of surrounding cast?
Might want to do some research on Wilt's 1962 season if you think him scoring a lot of points was 'not conducive to wins'. That statement isn't honest in light of how successful the Warriors were that season.

[Kblaze8855]

We believe Wilt Chamberlain was far better than any center playing today, and most of us believe this to be true by significant margin. None of us claimed anything else you proposed. Stick to arguing the points WE make, stop making up fake arguments as it is a sign of desperation as if you CAN'T attack the points we make. What your doing is a fallacy and it will get you nowhere fast.

He literally knows nothing about the time in question. He admitted as much once when I pointed out that it didnt seem like he looked into his claims about past eras.

Here it is in fact:




I dont get the impression you even care enough about this game to investigate the merits of your claims. But still....here you are. Making wild claims. As if you know anything.



To which he responds...


This is accurate, people have have jobs and most of us post on ISH for shits and giggles calm down. Personally I come on here mostly to kill time at work in between browsing huffpo and facebook/twitter.

you are taking this a lot more seriously than you should chill, we arent discussing the future of the nation here. I am not going to take out time to research stuff for ISH in depth.


He doesnt care to learn about the people hes hating on. Just hating to pass the time.

Talking while knowing...nothing. Just for a response. What some call "trolling" I suppose.

Generally...when I dont know what im talking about...at all...I shut the **** up.

Not everyone plays it that way.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

LeBron could average Jordan type numbers if he wanted; it's just not conducive to winning, though. I have no problems believing Wilt's the best bigman in the game but clearly his numbers weren't translating to wins. If 30ppg is easy, you really think he could average 40ppg with modern coaching schemes and talent of surrounding cast?

No he couldn't. His scoring skillset is just not capable of carrying such a load. The playoff numbers are a good indicator.

[Prometheus]

You need a history lesson, he wouldn't rank in the top 5. He was a English aristocratic who status in society elevated his accomplishments in mathematics.

I need a history lesson? :facepalm

Dude, Isaac Newton is without question the most influential scientist in history. You have no idea what you're talking about.

[JUDGE WITNESS]

depends whether he leaves with your mom after the game or not. in case of the former probably 40ppg

[Kblaze8855]

Im gonna ask that a few of the people who think Wilt wouldnt be a star watch this video...Wilt is nowhere to be seen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKp7U7PeeyM


One of you...explain why Willis Reed wouldnt be a star today. Reed...the 4th or 5th best bigman of his time. If that....considering Wilt, Kareem, Russell, Thurmond, Unseld, Hayes, and Cowens...hes in there somewhere..ill say 4th or 5th.

How many centers right now can have the game reed had there? Vs anyone...forget doing it while guarding perhaps the top offensive player in the history of the position who happens to be 7'2'' or more and blocking 4 shots a night.

How many centers today could have that game Reed did....if they only had to guard and be guarded by some random bum out there now?

[aj1987]

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/61992/before-there-was-youtube-there-was-wilt
So, Wilt threw a guy to the floor and the dude dislocated his shoulder. So? Wade dislocated his shoulder when he bumped into Battier. Are we gonna start calling his the strongest player ever and what not?


No he couldn't. His scoring skillset is just not capable of carrying such a load. The playoff numbers are a good indicator.
LeBron averaged 28.1 PPG on 56.7% TS for his career in the playoffs. A 0.6 PPG increase from the RS. He did score 31.4 PPG on 48% at 21.

[jongib369]

So, Wilt threw a guy to the floor and the dude dislocated his shoulder. So? Wade dislocated his shoulder when he bumped into Battier. Are we gonna start calling his the strongest player ever and what not?


LeBron averaged 28.1 PPG on 56.7% TS for his career in the playoffs. A 0.6 PPG increase from the RS. He did score 31.4 PPG on 48% at 21.

So you didn't read it?

[Joyner82reload]

27 ppg 15 rpg 2 apg 4 bpg 4 tov 52 fg% 45 ft% 51.5 ts%

[CavaliersFTW]

Im gonna ask that a few of the people who think Wilt wouldnt be a star watch this video...Wilt is nowhere to be seen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKp7U7PeeyM


One of you...explain why Willis Reed wouldnt be a star today. Reed...the 4th or 5th best bigman of his time. If that....considering Wilt, Kareem, Russell, Thurmond, Unseld, Hayes, and Cowens...hes in there somewhere..ill say 4th or 5th.

How many centers right now can have the game reed had there? Vs anyone...forget doing it while guarding perhaps the top offensive player in the history of the position who happens to be 7'2'' or more and blocking 4 shots a night.

How many centers today could have that game Reed did....if they only had to guard and be guarded by some random bum out there now?
*crickets*

[aj1987]

So you didn't read it?
Read the first 3 paras. Got the gist of it.

Anyways, what are you trying to prove?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

LeBron averaged 28.1 PPG on 56.7% TS for his career in the playoffs. A 0.6 PPG increase from the RS. He did score 31.4 PPG on 48% at 21.

Yes, but those aren't Jordan's averages in the playoffs (33 PPG on 56.8% TS). Just as I said :confusedshrug:

[jstern]

I'm no Wilt expert, but I think his game would be different, and I think he would be the best Center in the league, probably averaging 30 points per game.

I based that on his athlete mentality. The guy was simply an athlete, and had that drive and confidence.

I base it all the vibe that I get, so I could be wrong.

The reason why I think his game would be different is because the league is different, and his influence would be different. Being an athlete, I can also see him developing new moves and footwork with ease, unlike a Dwight Howard.

[DatAsh]

It really, really depends on the role he's playing, like it did in his day.

[La Frescobaldi]

GOAT Dylan song :applause:

For me, I gotta go with Love Minus Zero, No Limit

But Dylan is like Bach or Miles Davis.... just depends on your mood at that second. Guys like that have something brilliant for all occasions

[Calabis]

I acknowledge that those players are greater than todays players.
I just refuse to accept that they were better.

Eg. The spitfire is a greater fighter aircraft than the F-22 raptor because of historical accomplishments. one F-22 raptor would destroy a whole squadron of spitfires

Eg. Isaac newton is arguably the greatest scientist of all time. However most university professors today understand more about gravity than he did. While Newton is certainly greater than them, they are indisputably better physicists than him, in that they understand more about the natural universe than he did.

Newton also believe in alchemy

Eg. Mikan was a greater player than Robinson or Ewing, but they are certainly better than him.

One I never said today's players are not better....what I did say is that those guys were creating the game with no blueprint.....ala no Jordan and Magic to look at and pick certain parts of their game to master. They were inventing shit.....now take that same talent with year round basketball....no racism, better nutrition and better training.....how does that equal a scrub today? You can take Wilt from that period without any of this and he's going to be the best center in the game.....now lets take in that he was involved in multiple sports and loved weight training.......now lets add in him getting the benefit of the better shit above I mentioned. I tend to believe u have a different freak today possibly a better athlete/stronger guy then he was.....that's scary. Their are certain athletes that transcend eras he's one of them.

I swear guys act like the league has 10 LeBron James.....nope just one and he too is a freak.

[LAZERUSS]

Before Wilt's rookie season, the NBA individual record for scoring was 29.2 ppg. For rebounding, it was 23.0 rpg, and if you remove Russell, it would have been 18.1 rpg. And the FG% record was at .490.

Remove Chamberlain from the NBA from his rookie season, 59-60, thru his last season, 72-73, and the records would have been 35.6 ppg, 24.7 rpg (Russell), and a .587 FG%.

And remove Russell, and the all-time rpg mark would have been Thurmond's 21.3 rpg in '67. In fact, remove Russell and Wilt from the NBA entirely, and there would have been a TOTAL of FOUR 20+ rpg seasons in NBA history (two by Jerry Lucas.)

And aside from the rpg, which was admittedly higher because of "pace", the "Wilt-era", without Chamberlain, would not have been anything extraordinary.

For example, during Wilt's 14 seasons in the NBA, and subtracting Chamberlain, himself, and the NBA had a TOTAL of FIVE 60+ point games, with a high of 71. And even with a higher-scoring era (at least in the early 60's), there were not an extraordinary number of 30+ ppg seasons. Again, remove Wilt, and the high ppg seasons were 35.6 ppg, 34.8 ppg, 34.8 ppg, 34.0 ppg, 34.0 ppg, and then down to 31.4 ppg. And KAJ's 34.8 ppg and Archibald's 34.0 ppg seasons came in Wilt's last two seasons.


Now, how about just SOME of Chamberlain's staggering records:




Career 30-30 games:

Aside from Chamberlain, there have been 36 30-30 games in NBA history, and Russell is the leader of that group, with 7 (Bellamy and Thurmond are next with 3 each.)

How about Wilt? 132.


40-30 (or 30-40) games: Other than Wilt, the NBA has had 9 40-30 games, with Baylor being the only player to have 2.

Chamberlain? 73


50-30 games: Pettit and Baylor each with 1

Wilt? 32


60-20 games: Aside from Wilt, there have been four (Baylor with 3 and Shaq with 1)

Chamberlain? 28


60-30 games: Baylor with 1

Wilt? 8


40-40 games: There have been 8 in the history of the NBA, and Chamberlain had all of them.


50-40 games: Obviously, Wilt would be the only player to have ever have accomplsihed that feat, which he did 5 times.


70-30 games: Chamberlain has the only 2, 78-43 and 73-36 (against Bellamy.)


So, the question now becomes, how come it was basically ONLY Chamberlain who was putting up those extraordinary numbers? Hell, KAJ played FOUR years IN the "Wilt-era" and never sniffed the vast majority of Chamberlain's records. Think about this... Kareem played those four years, and 16 more (obviously 20 overall), and his HIGH point game was 55 points. Just the year before Kareem came into the NBA, Wilt hung TWO 60+ point games (on centers that Kareem would eventually face multiple times in his career, and would score no more than 41 against them.) And, in KAJ's rookie season, 69-70, Wilt's new coach, Joe Mullaney asked Chamberlain to become the focal point of the LA offense. Wilt responded by leading the league in scoring in his first nine games (32.2 ppg, and on a .579 FG%), and with games of 33, 35, 37, 38, 42, and 43 points...along with a H2H against rookie Kareem (Alcindor), in which he outscored, outrebounded, outassisted, outblocked, and heavily outshot KAJ. Unfortunately, he shredded his knee in that ninth game (BTW, 33 points on 13-14 shooting), and was never the same again.

Keep in mind that Wilt was STILL setting records AFTER that major knee injury, as well. Again, KAJ had TWO 30-30 games in his entire 20 season career, and Chamberlain matched that in his 71-72 alone (one of them against 6-11 HOF Bob Lanier.) In Wilt's LAST season, he set an all-time FG% mark of .727, which will likely never be broken. And, in his LAST post-season, covering 17 games, he averaged 22.5 rpg (in a post-season NBA that averaged 50.6 rpg). Think about this... that was the last time a player would ever average more than 17.3 rpg in the post-season (KAJ's mark in 11 playoff games in the 76-77 post-season.)

And thanks to the efforts of ThaRegul8r and Psileas, we now KNOW that Wilt averaged 5.42 bpg in his LAST season (at age 36.) And Psileas' research indicates that Wilt was probably at between 6-7 bpg in his 71-72 season (and a post-season in which he averaged over 7 bpg.) Mark Eaton would set the "official" record of 5.56 just 12 years later (84-85.) And again, the NBA began to officially record blocks just the season after Wilt retired (in fact, there is research which indicates that the NBA waited until Wilt retired to begin keeping track of that stat.) Just the season after Wilt retired, KAJ averaged 3.5 bpg (and his career high would "only" be 4.1 bpg), and Nate Thurmond averaged 2.9 bpg (which would be his "official" career high BTW.) In fact, Wilt was voted first-team all-defense in his last two seasons, and ahead of both of those guys.

So, one more time...why ONLY Wilt??!!

[LAZERUSS]

And to add to the above...(with my apologies to those that have read this before)...

A prime Kareem played against several of the same centers that a PRIME (scoring) Wilt faced, and was nowhere near as dominant.

A PRIME Wilt just crushed Willis Reed (even as late as the 68-69 season), and had an entire season, covering 12 H2H games, in which he averaged 39 ppg, which included beatdowns such as outscoring Reed by margins of 46-25, 41-9, 52-23, and 58-28. KAJ's career high against Reed... 41 points.

A prime Kareem faced a fading Walt Bellamy in 25 H2H games. His high game was 41 points, and his next high game against him was 39 points. Wilt had entire SEASONS, covering 10 H2H games in each, of 43.7 ppg and 52.7 ppg against Bellamy, with three games of 60+, including a 73-36 game on 29-48 shooting. He was still blasting Bellamy in his last scoring season with a 50 point game.

KAJ faced Nate Thurmond in 40 H2H games (between 1969-1973...or Nate's last decent season), and his HIGH gameagainst Nate in that span... 34 points. In fact, KAJ had a total of FIVE 30+ point games against Thurmond in that span. Oh, and KAJ's FG% against Thurmond in those 40 games... .440! Included were three straight playoff series H2H's, in which KAJ shot .486, .428, and even .405.

A PRIME "scoring" Wilt only faced Thurmond in 11 H2H games. Add in his first H2H game of his 66-67 season, and in those 12 H2H contests, Chamberlain had SIX games of 30+ (which was one more than Kareem had in his 40 career H2Hs with Nate), with high games of 38 and 45 points. And Wilt was just pounding Nate in the vast majority of those.. outscoring him by margins of 33-17, 33-10, 38-15, and 45-13. And how about Chamberlain's six H2H games against a PEAK Thurmond in their regular 66-67 season? Chamberlain averaged 21 ppg on...get this... a .633 FG%! And in the Finals that season, Wilt outscored Nate by an 18-14 ppg margin, while outshooting him by a staggering .560 to .343 margin. In fact, in their three playoff H2H series, Wilt outshot Nate by margins of .500 to .392; .611 to .373, and that .560 to .343 margin.

And then how about Wilt in his 68-69 season, which was just a year before KAJ's rookie season? Chamberlain hung a 60 point game on Connie Dierking, and a 66 point game on Jim Fox. A prime KAJ faced both multiple times, and his high game against both ... 41 points. Hell, a prime Chamberlain had games against Dierking in which he outscored by 63-11 and 59-4 margins.

Oh, and how about Darrell Imhoff? In 16 H2H's against an aging Imhoff, KAJ had high games of 46 and 36 points. We all know that Wilt had that 100 point game against Imhoff, but in their very next H2H game, Wilt poured in 58 points against Imhoff. In fact, just in that 61-62 season, alone Wilt had games of 55, 59, 59, and 67 points against Imhoff. And as late as Wilt's Last 'scoring season", 65-66, he was still hanging a game of 65 points on Imhoff.


So, if a 38-39 year old Kareem could average 32 ppg on .621 shooting in ten straight H2H games with Hakeem in the mid-80's, which included games of 40, 43, and 46 points, and then wipe the floor with Ewing in a 40-9 beatdown, just how dominant could a prime Wilt have been against the best centers of the 80's (who would go on to be among the best centers of 90's)?

[Prometheus]

Before Wilt's rookie season, the NBA individual record for scoring was 29.2 ppg. For rebounding, it was 23.0 rpg, and if you remove Russell, it would have been 18.1 rpg. And the FG% record was at .490.

Remove Chamberlain from the NBA from his rookie season, 59-60, thru his last season, 72-73, and the records would have been 35.6 ppg, 24.7 rpg (Russell), and a .587 FG%.

And remove Russell, and the all-time rpg mark would have been Thurmond's 21.3 rpg in '67. In fact, remove Russell and Wilt from the NBA entirely, and there would have been a TOTAL of FOUR 20+ rpg seasons in NBA history (two by Jerry Lucas.)

And aside from the rpg, which was admittedly higher because of "pace", the "Wilt-era", without Chamberlain, would not have been anything extraordinary.

For example, during Wilt's 14 seasons in the NBA, and subtracting Chamberlain, himself, and the NBA had a TOTAL of FIVE 60+ point games, with a high of 71. And even with a higher-scoring era (at least in the early 60's), there were not an extraordinary number of 30+ ppg seasons. Again, remove Wilt, and the high ppg seasons were 35.6 ppg, 34.8 ppg, 34.8 ppg, 34.0 ppg, 34.0 ppg, and then down to 31.4 ppg. And KAJ's 34.8 ppg and Archibald's 34.0 ppg seasons came in Wilt's last two seasons.


Now, how about just SOME of Chamberlain's staggering records:




So, the question now becomes, how come it was basically ONLY Chamberlain who was putting up those extraordinary numbers? Hell, KAJ played FOUR years IN the "Wilt-era" and never sniffed the vast majority of Chamberlain's records. Think about this... Kareem played those four years, and 16 more (obviously 20 overall), and his HIGH point game was 55 points. Just the year before Kareem came into the NBA, Wilt hung TWO 60+ point games (on centers that Kareem would eventually face multiple times in his career, and would score no more than 41 against them.) And, in KAJ's rookie season, 69-70, Wilt's new coach, Joe Mullaney asked Chamberlain to become the focal point of the LA offense. Wilt responded by leading the league in scoring in his first nine games (32.2 ppg, and on a .579 FG%), and with games of 33, 35, 37, 38, 42, and 43 points...along with a H2H against rookie Kareem (Alcindor), in which he outscored, outrebounded, outassisted, outblocked, and heavily outshot KAJ. Unfortunately, he shredded his knee in that ninth game (BTW, 33 points on 13-14 shooting), and was never the same again.

Keep in mind that Wilt was STILL setting records AFTER that major knee injury, as well. Again, KAJ had TWO 30-30 games in his entire 20 season career, and Chamberlain matched that in his 71-72 alone (one of them against 6-11 HOF Bob Lanier.) In Wilt's LAST season, he set an all-time FG% mark of .727, which will likely never be broken. And, in his LAST post-season, covering 17 games, he averaged 22.5 rpg (in a post-season NBA that averaged 50.6 rpg). Think about this... that was the last time a player would ever average more than 17.3 rpg in the post-season (KAJ's mark in 11 playoff games in the 76-77 post-season.)

And thanks to the efforts of ThaRegul8r and Psileas, we now KNOW that Wilt averaged 5.42 bpg in his LAST season (at age 36.) And Psileas' research indicates that Wilt was probably at between 6-7 bpg in his 71-72 season (and a post-season in which he averaged over 7 bpg.) Mark Eaton would set the "official" record of 5.56 just 12 years later (84-85.) And again, the NBA began to officially record blocks just the season after Wilt retired (in fact, there is research which indicates that the NBA waited until Wilt retired to begin keeping track of that stat.) Just the season after Wilt retired, KAJ averaged 3.5 bpg (and his career high would "only" be 4.1 bpg), and Nate Thurmond averaged 2.9 bpg (which would be his "official" career high BTW.) In fact, Wilt was voted first-team all-defense in his last two seasons, and ahead of both of those guys.

So, one more time...why ONLY Wilt??!!

:applause:

Thank you for posting this in a thread to which it is relevant this time. You know your stuff. Lazeruss, what do you think Wilt would average in today's league? I really hope you don't say something too absurd.

Kudos to anyone who actually reads this. He makes quite a strong case here.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Hey fpliii, where do YOU rank Wilt?

[LAZERUSS]

:applause:

Thank you for posting this in a thread to which it is relevant this time. You know your stuff. Lazeruss, what do you think Wilt would average in today's league? I really hope you don't say something too absurd.

Kudos to anyone who actually reads this. He makes quite a strong case here.

It's been mentioned already, but it would depend on what was needed. If Wilt was playing for a poorer team, he would probably average 30-35 ppg. If he was playing on a good team, probably 20-25 ppg, on .600+ FG%'s. And in any scenario, he would be the best rebounder in the league, as well as the best shot-blocker.

Most here are not aware of the fact that Wilt was a GREAT defensive center. I have posted the numbers many times, but he DRAMATICALLY reduced the FG%'s of his opposing centers his entire career. He routinely held Russell to WAY below his normal league FG%'s (he had post-seasons in which he held Russell to .399, .398, .386, and even .358.) In fact, he held Russell down even more than Russell reduced Wilt's efficiencies in their 143 career H2H games. He held Thurmond to post-seasons of .392, .373, and .343. He held Bellamy, in a season in which Walt shot .541, to a .421 FG% in the '68 playoffs. And he held KAJ to post-seasons of .481 and .457 in seasons in which Kareem had shot .577 and .574. And there were many more, as well.

Aside from Russell, Wilt was likely the second greatest defensive center (and player) of all-time.

[Bob Dole]

Lol at this freaking thread. People think wilt chamberlain would have worse stats than what Kevin freakin love is putting up. That is ludicrous if you know anything about basketball.

Prime wilt would be unquestionably the best player in today's league.

He'd put up something like:

34ppg 18reb 6 assists

Wilt chamberlain is a freak of nature. Understand this you idiots.

[LAZERUSS]

Im gonna ask that a few of the people who think Wilt wouldnt be a star watch this video...Wilt is nowhere to be seen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKp7U7PeeyM


One of you...explain why Willis Reed wouldnt be a star today. Reed...the 4th or 5th best bigman of his time. If that....considering Wilt, Kareem, Russell, Thurmond, Unseld, Hayes, and Cowens...hes in there somewhere..ill say 4th or 5th.

How many centers right now can have the game reed had there? Vs anyone...forget doing it while guarding perhaps the top offensive player in the history of the position who happens to be 7'2'' or more and blocking 4 shots a night.

How many centers today could have that game Reed did....if they only had to guard and be guarded by some random bum out there now?

In Wilt's 64-65 season, he faced Reed in 12 H2H games. He outscored him, 11-1, in those H2H's, and by a combined margin of 38.6 ppg to 22.8 ppg. Overall, Chamberlain averaged 38.6 ppg, 21.3 rpg, and in the nine known H2H's, he shot .524 from the field, in an NBA that shot an eFG% of .426. Included were games in which Wilt outscored by Reed by margins of 29-12, 37-22, 46-25, 52-23, 58-28, and 41-9.


Reed was traded to the Knicks after that, and was primarily a PF until Bellamy was traded away in the 68-69 season. And even in that 68-69 season, in their three H2H's, Chamberlain easily outplayed Reed, including one game in which he outscored Reed by a 31-15 margin.


The "Wilt-bashers" will try to disparage Chamberlain's numbers based on "competition", but the fact was, a PRIME Wilt was slaughtering EVERY center in the NBA, including the HOFers and All-Stars.

Reed was just one example. Wilt faced Zelmo Beaty in the 63-64 WDF's, and annihilated him with a 38.6 ppg, 23.0 rpg, .559 seven game series, which included a 50 point game.


The Russell-Wilt battles were a statistical massacre in favor of Chamberlain. Over the course of their 143 career H2H games, Wilt AVERAGED 28.7 ppg and 28.7 rpg, or a near 30-30 game EVERY time the two stepped on the floor. And those averages were brought down by the fact in their last three seasons in the league together, Wilt shot far less than he had in his first seven. He had seasons in which he outscored Russell by as much as 38 ppg to 14 ppg (in a nine game H2H season.) He had seasons of 38 ppg, 38 ppg, and even 40 ppg, all in seasons in which they went at it between nine and 11 games. He outscored Russell in 132 of those 143 H2H games, and outrebounded him by a combined margin of 92-43-8 (and overall, by FIVE rpg.)

Russell had three games against Wilt in which he scored 30+ points, with a high of 37. Wilt outscored him in all three. Chamberlain hung 24 40+ games on Russell, including five of 50+, and with a high of 62. Russell had one 40 rebound game against Wilt...Chamberlain had SEVEN against him, with an NBA record 55 in one of them (and by a 55-19 margin.) In fact, Chamberlain held a massive 23-4 margin in 35+ rebound game H2H's.

Overall, in those 143 H2H's, Chamberlain outshot Russell from the floor by about a .500 to less than .400 margin. In their playoff H2H's, Wilt not only outscored, and outrebounded Russell in EVERY one of their eight post-season H2H series, he also outshot him from the field by staggering margins. Included were series in which he outshot Russell by margins of .500 to .398; .517 to .386; .555 to .447; and .556 to .358. He was outscoring Russell in those eight playoff series by huge margins, including differentials of 34-22; 30-20; 28-14; 30-16; 22-10; and 29-12 ppg. He was outrebounding Russell by margins of as high as 30-25; 31-25; and even 32-23 rpg.


The Bellamy-Wilt H2H's were perhaps the most one-sided matchups between two HOF centers in NBA history. From their 61-62 season thru the 65-66 season (Wilt's last truly great scoring season), Wilt just annihilated Bellamy. It all began in their first H2H meeting, in which Wilt claimed that Walt would not score a point against him. In the first half, Bellamy did not score a point, and then Wilt "let him play" in the second half, in a game in which Chamberlain outscored him by a 52-14 margin. I won't bother looking up the total numbers, but I suspect that in those five seasons, covering some 45 H2H games, Bellamy probably outscored Chamberlain in maybe five of them. Wilt had H2H SEASONS against Bellamy, 10 games in each, in which he AVERAGED 43.7 ppg and 52.7 ppg. In fact, in twenty straight H2H games, Wilt AVERAGED 48.2 ppg against Bellamy. He routinely hung 50+ point games on Bells, and had a total of three 60+ games. In his high game against Bellamy, he scored 73 points, on 29-48 shooting, with 36 rebounds.

In their 63-64 season, Chamberlain outscored Bellamy in nine of their ten H2H games, and by margins as much as 35-19, 38-21, 49-36, 43-19, and 44-5. In their 64-65 H2H's, Wilt outscored Bellamy by a 7-1 margin, with differentials as high as 43-25, 56-37, 40-16, 51-33, and 56-37, and 53-20. In their 65-66 H2H's, Wilt held an 8-1-1 margin, with beatdowns of 34-24, 33-21, 37-22, 38-23, and 50-36.

And he dominated Bellamy even after his "scoring prime", as well. In their nine H2H games in Wilt's 66-67 season, Wilt averaged 22.7 ppg against Bellamy, on, get this... a .709 FG%.


I have already mentioned a prime Wilt's domination of Nate Thurmond. Fortunately for Nate, Thurmond only faced a "scoring" Chamberlain in 11 H2H games. And Chamberlain just shelled him in those, outscoring Thurmond 10-1, and usually by staggering margins, such as 33-17, 33-10, 38-15, and even a 45-13 spanking. In fact, even into Wilt's 66-67 season, and including the post-season, Chamberlain outscored Nate by a 21-2-1 margin in their first 24 H2H games. And Nate's peak season was in 66-67, when he put up an 18-20 season, and finished second to Wilt in the MVP balloting. In that 66-67 season, and in six regular season H2H's Wilt averaged 21 ppg on an unfathomable .633 against Thurmond, and then in six post-seasn H2H's, Wilt outscored and outrebounded Nate in five of their six H2H's, and outshot him by a cumulative margin of .560 to .343.


So next time someone suggests that Wilt was dominating "weak" competition,..yes, he easily did that...but he was also just carpet-bombing the greatest centers of his era, as well.

[fpliii]

Hey fpliii, where do YOU rank Wilt?
Sorry, just saw this.

Don't have a GOAT list so I can't say. GOAT peak though, and along with Russell, Hakeem, and MJ, he'd be one of my top 5 picks in an all-time draft.