Who has had more elite seasons? (top 5)

[Quickening]

Lebron or Kobe if we take into account Lebron will finish a top 5 player this year?

Kobe from 2002 to 2013 (removing 2003 season), Lebron from 2004-2014?

For elite seasons are they about a wash at the moment, both about 10 years, and Lebron is 6 years younger? :biggums:

And I feel I am being generous to Kobe, I personally wouldn't have him near top 5 last year.

[MMM]

top 3 is my elite definition

I think Kobe has been top 3 from 02 to 12
the first few years might be questionable due to going against Kg, Shaq, Duncan and Dirk.

Bron has been at least top 3 from 06

[Quickening]

top 3 is my elite definition

I think Kobe has been top 3 from 02 to 12
the first few years might be questionable due to going against Kg, Shaq, Duncan and Dirk.

Bron has been at least top 3 from 06

In the 2003-04 season Kobe put up 24ppg on 43 percent shooting, and you have him as top 3?

In the 2004-2005 season he put up a stat line of 27.6, 5.9, 6 on 43 percent. Lebron put up 27.2, 7.2, 7.4 on 47 percent. Yet you have Kobe top 3 but not Lebron? Kobe also missed the playoffs this year.

[Shep]

Top 5 seasons:

Bryant: '00, '01, '02, '03, '04, '08, '09, '10

James: '05, '06, '07, '08, '09, '10, '11, '12, '13

Total: Bryant - 8 season, James - 9 seasons

[Warfan]

Top 5 seasons:

Bryant: '00, '01, '02, '03, '04, '08, '09, '10

James: '05, '06, '07, '08, '09, '10, '11, '12, '13

Total: Bryant - 8 season, James - 9 seasons

Uhhhhh i mean i can maybe see an argument for kobe not being top 5 after 2010 but 06 & 07 kobe not being top 5 :biggums:

[aj1987]

Top 5 seasons:

Bryant: '00, '01, '02, '03, '04, '08, '09, '10

James: '05, '06, '07, '08, '09, '10, '11, '12, '13

Total: Bryant - 8 season, James - 9 seasons
How the hell was Kobe not a top 5 player in '05, '06, and '07??

He wasn't a top 5 player in '00, '02, and '04.

Kobe: '01, '02, '03, '05, '06, '07, '08, '09, and '10.
LeBron: '05 - '14.

[chazzy]

Kobe - 01 02 03 04 06 07 08 09 10 12 13

Lebron - 06 07 08 09 10 11 12 13

[Quickening]

Kobe - 01 02 03 04 06 07 08 09 10 12 13

Lebron - 06 07 08 09 10 11 12 13

:lol :roll: Didn't take long.

[Quickening]

How the hell was Kobe not a top 5 player in '05, '06, and '07??

He wasn't a top 5 player in '00, '02, and '04.

Kobe: '01, '02, '03, '05, '06, '07, '08, '09, and '10.
LeBron: '05 - '14.

This is the best list so far.

[Shep]

Uhhhhh i mean i can maybe see an argument for kobe not being top 5 after 2010 but 06 & 07 kobe not being top 5
This is correct. I cannot see an argument for something that is false :confusedshrug:

How the hell was Kobe not a top 5 player in '05, '06, and '07??

He wasn't a top 5 player in '00, '02, and '04.
Easy, there were a minimum of 5 players better than him in those years. Actually the answer is yes, he was a top 5 player in those seasons: '00, '02, and '04

[chazzy]

:lol :roll: Didn't take long.
What?

[Quickening]

What?

Until some guy who doesn't watch basketball or is trolling came in and claimed Kobe was top 5 for every season he has put up more than 20ppg.

[chazzy]

Until some guy who doesn't watch basketball or is trolling came in and claimed Kobe was top 5 for every season he has put up more than 20ppg.
I left him off for 05 and 11. Are you new to basketball or do you just not remember every season?

Lebron wasn't top 5 in 05 either btw. Shaq, KG, Duncan, Nash, and Dirk were better

[aj1987]

Easy, there were a minimum of 5 players better than him in those years. Actually the answer is yes, he was a top 5 player in those seasons: '00, '02, and '04
There are 5 players better than a 35/5/5, 28/6/6, and a 32/6/5 Kobe?

'00 - Shaq, Timmy, KG, Mourning, Malone, and GP were better.

[Shep]

There are 5 players better than a 35/5/5, 28/6/6, and a 32/6/5 Kobe?
The game is not all about points, rebounds, and assists in the regular season. Duncan, Wade, Garnett, James, and McGrady were better in 2005, along with 8 others. Wade, James, Nowitzki, Brand, and Duncan were better in 2006, along with 3 others. Duncan, James, McGrady, Kidd, and Nowitzki were better in 2007, along with 13 others.

'00 - Shaq, Timmy, KG, Mourning, Malone, and GP were better.
Only O'Neal was better.

[chazzy]

Duncan, James, McGrady, Kidd, and Nowitzki were better in 2007, along with 13 others.
I'd like to see the full list of 18 players better than 07 Kobe, holy shit :oldlol:

[ArbitraryWater]

top 3 is my elite definition

I think Kobe has been top 3 from 02 to 12
the first few years might be questionable due to going against Kg, Shaq, Duncan and Dirk.

Bron has been at least top 3 from 06

There is no damn way Kobe was top 3 from 02-05.... how the fcuk was Kobe better than Shaq/Garnett/Duncan in 2003? 2004 and 2005 he had DISASTER Seasons... Was he Top 7 in 2005? 2006 it begans.

[ArbitraryWater]

I'd like to see the full list of 18 players better than 07 Kobe, holy shit :oldlol:

Prob a closet kobe stan trying to put a bad name on bron fans.

[DMAVS41]

Kobe - 01 02 03 04 06 07 08 09 10 12 13

Lebron - 06 07 08 09 10 11 12 13


Pretty much this. Although I don't think Kobe was top 5 in 03. I'd take;

Duncan
Shaq
KG
T-Mac
Dirk
Kidd

Thought 03 Kobe is a bit over-rated...but certainly debatable.

04 is tough for me as well. I thought T-Mac was better than Kobe again, but it's so close it's hard to draw a line. I'd take Shaq/Duncan/KG as well...and then I know it sounds crazy, but I actually think Ben Wallace was a more valuable player in 04 than Kobe. So I wouldn't use the word "better", but I think I'd rather have Ben Wallace on my team than Kobe in 04.

2013 is interesting as well. Durant and Lebron were obviously better. I think Duncan was better as well. Would take Westbrook and Paul also, but it's debatable of course. Don't think Kobe did anything in 13 that really separated himself from Melo to be honest either.

So I agree for the most part with the list, but Kobe was not definitively in the top 5 in 03, 04, and 13 in my opinion.

[Pointguard]

Pretty much this. Although I don't think Kobe was top 5 in 03. I'd take;

Duncan
Shaq
KG
T-Mac
Dirk
Kidd

Thought 03 Kobe is a bit over-rated...but certainly debatable.

04 is tough for me as well. I thought T-Mac was better than Kobe again, but it's so close it's hard to draw a line. I'd take Shaq/Duncan/KG as well...and then I know it sounds crazy, but I actually think Ben Wallace was a more valuable player in 04 than Kobe. So I wouldn't use the word "better", but I think I'd rather have Ben Wallace on my team than Kobe in 04.

2013 is interesting as well. Durant and Lebron were obviously better. I think Duncan was better as well. Would take Westbrook and Paul also, but it's debatable of course. Don't think Kobe did anything in 13 that really separated himself from Melo to be honest either.

So I agree for the most part with the list, but Kobe was not definitively in the top 5 in 03, 04, and 13 in my opinion.

This is the way I see it.

Sometimes Elite is five and sometimes its three depending on if there is a gap after third player or not. In Kobe's early years there were a lot of "have to be five elite players." 2013 was a train wreck of a year for the Lakers so he wouldn't be elite that year. But I thought Kobe was elite in '02.

[Rubio2Gasol]

So Kobe wasn't top 3 in 01?

Kobe in 01 > Lebron any year.

[ArbitraryWater]

Pretty much this. Although I don't think Kobe was top 5 in 03. I'd take;

Duncan
Shaq
KG
T-Mac
Dirk
Kidd

Thought 03 Kobe is a bit over-rated...but certainly debatable.

04 is tough for me as well. I thought T-Mac was better than Kobe again, but it's so close it's hard to draw a line. I'd take Shaq/Duncan/KG as well...and then I know it sounds crazy, but I actually think Ben Wallace was a more valuable player in 04 than Kobe. So I wouldn't use the word "better", but I think I'd rather have Ben Wallace on my team than Kobe in 04.

2013 is interesting as well. Durant and Lebron were obviously better. I think Duncan was better as well. Would take Westbrook and Paul also, but it's debatable of course. Don't think Kobe did anything in 13 that really separated himself from Melo to be honest either.

So I agree for the most part with the list, but Kobe was not definitively in the top 5 in 03, 04, and 13 in my opinion.


2003 Kobe was better than 2002 Kobe but 2002 Kobe was Top 5 and 2003 Kobe wasn't... fact. 2003 simply had the emergence of TMac/Dirk/KG

[MMM]

There is no damn way Kobe was top 3 from 02-05.... how the fcuk was Kobe better than Shaq/Garnett/Duncan in 2003? 2004 and 2005 he had DISASTER Seasons... Was he Top 7 in 2005? 2006 it begans.

your probably right i did say it was questionable in those early seasons. Anyways lets remember that the elite talent in the mid 2000s was deeper than it is nowadays.

[ArbitraryWater]

your probably right i did say it was questionable in those early seasons. Anyways lets remember that the elite talent in the mid 2000s was deeper than it is nowadays.

Probably... although behind LeBron/Durant the others are being rated fine. No one is saying Paul/Melo/Howard are all time greats or some stuff like that..

[chazzy]

Pretty much this. Although I don't think Kobe was top 5 in 03. I'd take;

Duncan
Shaq
KG
T-Mac
Dirk
Kidd

Thought 03 Kobe is a bit over-rated...but certainly debatable.


I forgot how I ordered them, but I had Tmac Dirk and Kobe all next to each other with Kobe at #5. Kobe put up 30/7/6 and was still playing good defense while averaging 2 steals and a block. His efficiency dropped a bit in the playoffs, especially with his torn labrum, but he still put up 32/5/5

04 is tough for me as well. I thought T-Mac was better than Kobe again, but it's so close it's hard to draw a line. I'd take Shaq/Duncan/KG as well...and then I know it sounds crazy, but I actually think Ben Wallace was a more valuable player in 04 than Kobe. So I wouldn't use the word "better", but I think I'd rather have Ben Wallace on my team than Kobe in 04.

2013 is interesting as well. Durant and Lebron were obviously better. I think Duncan was better as well. Would take Westbrook and Paul also, but it's debatable of course. Don't think Kobe did anything in 13 that really separated himself from Melo to be honest either.
In 04, I had Kobe at #4 or #5 behind the players you mentioned, with Tmac being in the mix.. playing for the worst team in the league has to be factored in though. 04 was just a down year for individual years it seems.

'13 I had Kobe at #4 behind Lebron, KD, and CP3. I think either you're mixing up 2013 Westbrook with 2012 or that's revisionist, because I thought he was better the year before and don't recall him being in the mix as a top 5 player. Melo was very good and underrated on ISH. While he got really hot late, I thought Kobe had a better body of work and was a much better facilitator while being nearly as good of a scorer. Close though

[HOoopCityJones]

Just by the simple fact you guys can't even come to a consensus on if Kobe was Top 3 in his best years , shows the clear bias against him.

Kobe's been Top 3 in this league since 00'

[tmacattack33]

Kobe was whack in 2011 (2010-2011), and 2012. Not top 5.

Last year he miraculously looked great again (some say it was international medical procudure that he got) , before getting injured.

So please take 2011 and 2012 off.

[tmacattack33]

And oh yeah, Kobe was obviously not top 5 in 2004...the first year without Shaq.

[ArbitraryWater]

Just by the simple fact you guys can't even come to a consensus on if Kobe was Top 3 in his best years , shows the clear bias against him.

Kobe's been Top 3 in this league since 00'



Kobe was whack in 2011 (2010-2011), and 2012. Not top 5.

Last year he miraculously looked great again (some say it was international medical procudure that he got) , before getting injured.

So please take 2011 and 2012 off.

Hoooop city being a special kind of stupid again.

Kobe isnt close to being Top 3 in 2000, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2011, 2012 and 2013.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe - 01-13
Lebron - 05-14

[DMAVS41]

I forgot how I ordered them, but I had Tmac Dirk and Kobe all next to each other with Kobe at #5. Kobe put up 30/7/6 and was still playing good defense while averaging 2 steals and a block. His efficiency dropped a bit in the playoffs, especially with his torn labrum, but he still put up 32/5/5

In 04, I had Kobe at #4 or #5 behind the players you mentioned, with Tmac being in the mix.. playing for the worst team in the league has to be factored in though. 04 was just a down year for individual years it seems.

'13 I had Kobe at #4 behind Lebron, KD, and CP3. I think either you're mixing up 2013 Westbrook with 2012 or that's revisionist, because I thought he was better the year before and don't recall him being in the mix as a top 5 player. Melo was very good and underrated on ISH. While he got really hot late, I thought Kobe had a better body of work and was a much better facilitator while being nearly as good of a scorer. Close though


Yea, we aren't going to far off on any of these, Kobe put up great numbers in 03...don't think he played good defense. 02 was when he started his, virtually no impact at all, defensively for the remainder of his career. So if defense matters a lot to you...I'd submit Kidd definitely needs to be ranked over Kobe here. Kidd was an actually an impact defender...Kobe just really wasn't.

Also, hard to ignore the chemistry issues...Kobe trying to prove himself at the cost of the team. And just losing with Shaq...we can make excuses because of the 3 peat and such, but if we are judging each year individually...I have Kobe at like 7th. Certainly a case can be made for top 5, but it's certainly not definitive.

04 is more just an opinion from both of us. You take Kobe. I take T-Mac and Wallace and we can both defend our positions. I'd say Kobe's pathetic finals has to be factored in to your assertion about T-mac. Just hard to give the benefit of the doubt to the guy that played horrible in the most important games of the year.

13. I'm confused here. Why would public opinion at the time matter so much to you? WB put up 23/7/5 on 53% TS in 13 vs 24/5/6 54% TS in 12...

I'm not confused nor is it revisionist. I thought WB was a better player in 13. The Thunder went from having the 2nd offense and 11th defense in 12...to the best offense and 4th best defense. WB also played 16 more games in 13 than he did in 12.

And considering Kobe missed more games and the playoffs...WB getting hurt can't be held against him.

So I'm not really concerned with what people were saying...just with actual what was going on.

I had a blast watching Kobe in 13, but he completely abandoned any defense and really just played for himself...not surprising Howard is on another team given that.

[eliteballer]

Kobe's been elite since 2000, arguably 1999 ISHiot.

[DMAVS41]

Kobe's been elite since 2000, arguably 1999 ISHiot.

If elite is "top 5"...no...Kobe's first year in which he started that top 5 status was 01 through 13

[chazzy]

And oh yeah, Kobe was obviously not top 5 in 2004...the first year without Shaq.
While he wasn't all that good compared to his other prime years in 04, you could def make a case he was top 5 when you actually start to rank the players that year. A lot of guys had down years - only definite players above are KG, Shaq, and Duncan.

[DMAVS41]

While he wasn't all that good compared to his other prime years in 04, you could def make a case he was top 5 when you actually start to rank the players that year. A lot of guys had down years - only definite players above are KG, Shaq, and Duncan.

Absolutely...you can make a case for any of the years you mentioned.

I just don't think it's definitive in the years I mentioned...but the truth is...is that it's just nitpicking if one ranks a player at number 5 (you) and I rank him at number 6 or something....we basically just agree.

[I<3NBA]

Russel i think had like 11 or something.