Boiled down

[Deuce Bigalow]

Russell: 11
Jordan: 6
Kareem: 6
Mikan: 5
Magic: 5
Kobe: 5
Shaq: 4
Duncan: 4
Bird: 3
Lebron: 2
Hakeem: 2
Wilt: 2

All these players have won/would have won an MVP and FMVP if the award existed and made multiple All-NBA first teams for you guys who want to bring in "Horry: 7".

I wanted to make this thread to end the Wilt debates. Let us proceed.

[DMAVS41]

Russell: 11
Jordan: 6
Kareem: 6
Mikan: 5
Magic: 5
Kobe: 5
Shaq: 4
Duncan: 4
Bird: 3
Lebron: 2
Hakeem: 2
Wilt: 2

All these players have won/would have won an MVP and FMVP if the award existed and made multiple All-NBA first teams for you guys who want to bring in "Horry: 7".

I wanted to make this thread to end the Wilt debates. Let us proceed.


Please include Hondo with 8. Thanks.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Please include Hondo with 8. Thanks.
Doesn't qualify, no MVPs.

[DMAVS41]

Doesn't qualify, no MVPs.

Meh...totally arbitrary...he has a fmvp and was all over both all nba and all defensive teams throughout this career.

A player winning 1 MVP shouldn't vault him up on a different tier...

At least make it multiple MVP winners if you are going to do that

[navy]

100 points doe

[Random_Guy]

Please include Hondo with 8. Thanks.
this~otherwise it would be unfair to players who has more fmvp/mvps

[navy]

50ppg season doe

[ArbitraryWater]

Doesn't qualify, no MVPs.

Yea but he would have been the FMVP/Best Player in 2-3... 3 imo

[navy]

Bad teammates doe

[Sarcastic]

Agenda thread

[Deuce Bigalow]

Meh...totally arbitrary...he has a fmvp and was all over both all nba and all defensive teams throughout this career.

A player winning 1 MVP shouldn't vault him up on a different tier...

At least make it multiple MVP winners if you are going to do that
Nope.

Must have an MVP, FMVP, and multiple All-NBA first teams. Mikan and Russell would obviously have at least one of each.

[NumberSix]

Jordan: 6
Kareem: 6
Magic: 5
Duncan: 4
Bird: 3
Lebron: 2
Multiple MVPs + finals MVPs.

[fpliii]

The NBA sucks.

[Random_Guy]

Nope.

Must have an MVP, FMVP, and multiple All-NBA first teams. Mikan and Russell would obviously have at least one of each.
if that was purely the criteria, shouldnt player evaluation be based on all of them. evaluating players by rings is just odd since that wasnt the based criteria.

[Sarcastic]

Multiple MVPs + finals MVPs.

Russell should be included considering the FMVP is named after him.

[Deuce Bigalow]

if that was purely the criteria, shouldnt player evaluation be based on all of them. evaluating players by rings is just odd since that wasnt the based criteria.
I'm just boiling it down real quick.

[NumberSix]

Russell should be included considering the FMVP is named after him.
He doesn't have any, so no, he shouldn't.

[Deuce Bigalow]

He doesn't have any, so no, he shouldn't.
Is Russell a known liar?

[Random_Guy]

I'm just boiling it down real quick.
oh okay~the top 10 is just an opinion anyways:cheers:

[3LiftHeatCurse]

Russell: 11
Jordan: 6
Kareem: 6
Mikan: 5
Magic: 5
Kobe: 5
Shaq: 4
Duncan: 4
Bird: 3
Lebron: 2
Hakeem: 2
Wilt: 2

All these players have won/would have won an MVP and FMVP if the award existed and made multiple All-NBA first teams for you guys who want to bring in "Horry: 7".

I wanted to make this thread to end the Wilt debates. Let us proceed.

You forgot Wade, who has 3.

[DMAVS41]

Nope.

Must have an MVP, FMVP, and multiple All-NBA first teams. Mikan and Russell would obviously have at least one of each.

What do you mean...nope?

It's just an arbitrary distinction you have made. And you aren't even including all the players that have that in your list.

A 1 time mvp winner has not distanced himself enough from a guy like Hondo...who won 8 titles, has a fmvp, one of the 20 greatest players ever...etc.

I know this is all about Kobe for you, but do you really think 1 MVP is more important than 3 titles? Or that an all time great player like Hondo with 8 titles doesn't deserve mention here?

Come on now...especially in relation to all the ring count stuff as this is in response to the stupid "horry" argument...

[DMAVS41]

You forgot Wade, who has 3.

He doesn't have a MVP...so he doesn't count.

LOL...that is why this is so stupid. Wade obviously played at an MVP level though.

That is what is so stupid about Kobe fans...if someone were to make the same list using multiple mvp winners (which actually makes a lot more sense)...they'd bitch and moan

Because the truth is that the GOAT list is better off with multiple mvp winners, multiple title winners, and multiple finals mvp winners.

[LAZERUSS]

The REAL "boiled down"...

Russell won 11 rings, and probably would have won at least eight FMVPs.

HOWEVER, it was Chamberlain who was almost universally accepted as the best player in the league while the two were playing. It was WILT with a 7-2 margin in First-Team All NBAs in their ten seasons in the league together. It was WILT winning an MVP in his rookie season over Russell. And it was WILT winning runaway MVPs over Russell (and other's) in the mid-to-late 60's.

Oh, and check out their 143 H2H games (courtesy of Fpliii)...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aoy3YD7IdypTdEpOeFRwY29NRTUtWVlFWVJ5TkFDY 3c#gid=0


Chamberlain with a MASSIVE scoring margin, a crushing rebounding margin, and an overwhelming FG% edge. And in the known games with blocks...again, a HUGE margin for Chamberlain.

Furthermore, Wilt, with worse rosters, and rosters who generally played considerably worse in the post-season, played on team's that lost four games seven's by margins of 2, 1, 4, and 2 points...in series in which Wilt either outplayed, or downright dominated Russell.

And for those that somehow believe that Russell was the better player...please explain this to me...

In the 65-66 EDF's, Wilt's team was down 3-1 going into the fifth game of that series. And with his teammates badly outplayed (and who would go on to collectively shoot an abysmal .352 in that series), Wilt came out in that fifth game and flat out crushed Russell with a 46 point, 34 rebound game. However, with his teammates contributing virtually nothing, Wilt's Sixers lost that game and the series.

Ok, so let's move forward to the very next year. Now, it was Wilt's team with a 3-1 margin (and only a narrow four point loss in Boston in game four prevented an embarassing sweep for the eight-time defending champs) going into game five. Did Russell rise up and put up a HUGE game against Wilt, when it was obvious his teammates needed him to do so? Nope...he went quietly like a lamb being led to slaughter. He scored FOUR points, on 2-5 shooting, to go along with 21 rebounds and seven assists. Meanwhile, Chamberlain "the choker" overwhelmed him with a 29 point (22 of which had come in the first half when the game was still close), 10-16 shooting, 13 assist, 36 rebound, and seven block game. The Sixers, who had trailed late in the first quarter by as much as 17 points, completely carpet-bombed Russell's Celtics from that point on, leading by as much as 27 points mid-way thru the fourth quarter, en route to a 140-116 pasting of Russell and his Celtics.

What happened? Why couldn't Russell hang a 40-30 game on Chamberlain when he knew that his teammates were finally neutralized by Wilt's?

John Wooden said it best... had Wilt had Russell's rosters, and Auerbach as a coach, and likely it would have been Chamberlain holding all of those rings.

[DonDadda59]

Bob Cousy- 6

[Rocketswin2013]

Russell is a bad offensive basketball player and just a good defender. Not even in the top 50. Wilt was just an ahead of his time athlete with a couple hook shots. Like he was practically Deandre Jordan with 3 or 4 legit go to moves. Dwight Howard would have probably put up even better stats than Wilt had he been born in the 50's among guys who he physically dominates with ease. **** both of them honestly.

[fpliii]

Russell is a bad offensive basketball player and just a good defender. Not even in the top 50. Wilt was just an ahead of his time athlete with a couple hook shots. Like he was practically Deandre Jordan with 3 or 4 legit go to moves. Dwight Howard would have probably put up even better stats than Wilt had he been born in the 50's among guys who he physically dominates with ease. **** both of them honestly.
Where's your chaperone my homie?

[Akrazotile]

Considering Kobe won a "Derrick Rose good-story-bro" MVP im not sure why he would qualify for this if youre trying to make it legitimate.

[Keno]

safe to say this shitty thread backfired faster than expected.

[Deuce Bigalow]

The REAL "boiled down"...

Russell won 11 rings, and probably would have won at least eight FMVPs.

HOWEVER, it was Chamberlain who was almost universally accepted as the best player in the league while the two were playing. It was WILT with a 7-2 margin in First-Team All NBAs in their ten seasons in the league together. It was WILT winning an MVP in his rookie season over Russell. And it was WILT winning runaway MVPs over Russell (and other's) in the mid-to-late 60's.

Oh, and check out their 143 H2H games (courtesy of Fpliii)...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aoy3YD7IdypTdEpOeFRwY29NRTUtWVlFWVJ5TkFDY 3c#gid=0


Chamberlain with a MASSIVE scoring margin, a crushing rebounding margin, and an overwhelming FG% edge. And in the known games with blocks...again, a HUGE margin for Chamberlain.

Furthermore, Wilt, with worse rosters, and rosters who generally played considerably worse in the post-season, played on team's that lost four games seven's by margins of 2, 1, 4, and 2 points...in series in which Wilt either outplayed, or downright dominated Russell.

And for those that somehow believe that Russell was the better player...please explain this to me...

In the 65-66 EDF's, Wilt's team was down 3-1 going into the fifth game of that series. And with his teammates badly outplayed (and who would go on to collectively shoot an abysmal .352 in that series), Wilt came out in that fifth game and flat out crushed Russell with a 46 point, 34 rebound game. However, with his teammates contributing virtually nothing, Wilt's Sixers lost that game and the series.

Ok, so let's move forward to the very next year. Now, it was Wilt's team with a 3-1 margin (and only a narrow four point loss in Boston in game four prevented an embarassing sweep for the eight-time defending champs) going into game five. Did Russell rise up and put up a HUGE game against Wilt, when it was obvious his teammates needed him to do so? Nope...he went quietly like a lamb being led to slaughter. He scored FOUR points, on 2-5 shooting, to go along with 21 rebounds and seven assists. Meanwhile, Chamberlain "the choker" overwhelmed him with a 29 point (22 of which had come in the first half when the game was still close), 10-16 shooting, 13 assist, 36 rebound, and seven block game. The Sixers, who had trailed late in the first quarter by as much as 17 points, completely carpet-bombed Russell's Celtics from that point on, leading by as much as 27 points mid-way thru the fourth quarter, en route to a 140-116 pasting of Russell and his Celtics.

What happened? Why couldn't Russell hang a 40-30 game on Chamberlain when he knew that his teammates were finally neutralized by Wilt's?

John Wooden said it best... had Wilt had Russell's rosters, and Auerbach as a coach, and likely it would have been Chamberlain holding all of those rings.
Boiled down:

Russell: 11
Wilt: 2

[Deuce Bigalow]

Bob Cousy- 6
Russell would have all the FMVPs for those 6 rings.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Considering Kobe won a "Derrick Rose good-story-bro" MVP im not sure why he would qualify for this if youre trying to make it legitimate.
Boiled down:

Kobe: 5

[3LiftHeatCurse]

Considering Kobe won a "Derrick Rose good-story-bro" MVP im not sure why he would qualify for this if youre trying to make it legitimate.

It was more of a "**** You LeBron" more than a pro-Rose MVP.

[DonDadda59]

Russell would have all the FMVPs for those 6 rings.

Highly questionable. Their first championship together (Cousy won the reg. season MVP) Cousy put up 21/7/9, Russell put up 13/23/3. Russell's rebounding was impressive, but nothing out of the ordinary for that time period (for comparison sake, Bob Petit put up 30/18 in the same series). Even Heinsohn had a case for MVP, put up 24/13.

Either way, Cousy had 6 rings, 1 season MVP, a hypothetical finals MVP, a bunch of all NBA teams, led the league in APG 8x, etc.

Don't see why he (or Havlicek for that matter) would be left out of the 'boiled down' list.

[LAZERUSS]

Boiled down:

Russell: 11
Wilt: 2

You mean Russell's CELTICS with 11 rings, and Chamberlain's TEAMs with 2. No one in their right mind would ever claim that Russell outplayed Wilt in ANY of their EIGHT post-season H2H's.

Chamberlain outrebounded Russell in EVERY one of their EIGHT H2H series. Including margins of 25-21, 30-25, 31-25, and even a crushing 32-23 differential. Wilt MURDERED Russell in terms of scoring, and by as much as 34-22 ppg, 22-10, 30-20, 30-16, and 29-12. And while Russell generally held Chamberlain below his normal FG%'s, the fact was, Wilt held Russell below his normal season FG%'s even moreso. Wilt outshot Russell from the field in EVERY series, and some by margins of .500 to .398, .555 to .447, .517 to .386, and .556 to .358. Chamberlain even had a TRIPLE-DOUBLE series against Russell in '67, with a 22 ppg, 32 rpg, 10 apg series.

Wilt had seasons, between 9-11 games, in which he averaged 38 ppg, 38 ppg, and even 40 ppg against Russell. Again, in their 143 H2H meetings, Chamberlain outscored Russell in 132 of them. Many by unfathomable margins, and by as much as 62-23 in a game. He had five games of 50+, including a must-win playoff game. Hell, Russell had three games of 30+ against Wilt, with a high of 37...and Chamberlain outscored him in all three. In fact, Wilt held a 24-0 margin in 40+ point games.

In their 143 H2H games, Wilt held a 92-43-8 margin in rebounding. Included was a 7-1 edge in 40+ rebound H2H's, and an overwhelming 23-4 margin in 35+ rebound H2H's. Wilt even had one game in which he outrebounded Russell by a 55-19 margin.

We now have the majority of their FGM/FGA games, and in those Wilt shot about 50% from the field, while Russell shot less than 40% against Wilt. And again, thanks to Julizaver, we KNOW that Wilt shot much closer to his career FG% against Russell, than what Russell shot against Wilt compared to his career FG%.

Even in the known blocks, Wilt held a huge margin.

Did Russell's teammates outplay Wilt's? No question. But then again, he had better teammates who actually played even better in their post-seasons, while Wilt's normally pathetic rosters, generally puked all over the floor in their's.

If we are going to claim that Wilt was a "loser" based on his TEAM's only winning two rings (and BTW, his team's lost to the eventual NBA champion TEN times...five of them in game seven's, and in four of those, by margins of 2, 1, 4, and 2 points)...then MJ was a "loser" in nine of his seasons. Bird was a "loser" in 10 of his. West in 12. Baylor in 13. Kobe in 13. Kareem in 14. Shaq in 16. And Hakeem in 16.

[Deuce Bigalow]

^ Boil it down Laz boil it down.

[LAZERUSS]

^ Boil it down Laz boil it down.

Pretty easy...

The most dominant PLAYER in NBA history was Wilt. As Oscar once said, "The Record Book does not lie."

For TEAM success,...well the best TEAMs usually win. In terms of W-L percentage... Magic is CLEARLY the greatest in NBA history. In terms of Rings, no question Russell, with 11, and teammates Sam Jones with 10, and Hondo with eight.

[ImKobe]

Kobe: 5

the tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

tee, hee.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Pretty easy...

The most dominant PLAYER in NBA history was Wilt. As Oscar once said, "The Record Book does not lie."

For TEAM success,...well the best TEAMs usually win. In terms of W-L percentage... Magic is CLEARLY the greatest in NBA history. In terms of Rings, no question Russell, with 11, and teammates Sam Jones with 10, and Hondo with eight.
http://i.imgur.com/8szBq.jpg

And try boiling it down please.

[LAZERUSS]

Most dominant player was Michael Jordan. And try boiling it down please.

Go ahead...let's use FULL SEASONS, including BOTH the regular season, which covers 80-82 games, and the post-seasons, which often only covered as little as THREE games. Combine them. Also, use LEAGUE AVERAGES, and MARGINS of statistical titles.

And finally, let's use RECORDS. At last count, Harvey Pollack had Wilt with something like 90. The REALITY was, Chamberlain holds HUNDREDS of records, and perhaps THOUSANDS. If you include "streak" records, there is simply no end to the number of RECORDS that Wilt holds. Even his post-season records are unfathomable. For instance, how many other players in NBA history, have put up 20+ ppg, 20+ rpg, and .500+ eFG% post-seasons? Chamberlain did it SIX times. How many other players have put up 30+ ppg, and 20+ rpg post-seasons? Wilt did it FOUR times. How many other players had 50 point, 30 rebound post-season games? Chamberlain had TWO. How many other players had 40-30 post-season games? Wilt had SIX. 30-30 games in the playoffs? Chamberlain with 11. And I could go on with 50-20, 40-20, 30-20, and 20-20 games ad nauseum. And keep in mind that Wilt faced a starting HOF center in 105 of his 160 post-season games, and in fact, outplayed them in the vast majority of their H2H games.

Again...Wilt was CLEARLY the most dominant player in NBA history.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe: 5

the tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

tee, hee.
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1274640/kobeten.gif

[navy]

LAZERUSS....how old are you? I cant imagine anyone sticking up for wilt this much without watching him firsthand.

[LAZERUSS]

LAZERUSS....how old are you?

Not quite as old as Deuce, who claims to have seen Mikan play live.

[navy]

Not quite as old as Deuce, who claims to have seen Mikan play live.
Have you seen Wilt in person? :pimp:

[LAZERUSS]

Have you seen Wilt in person? :pimp:

Yes actually. Both games were in the 72-73 season. And of course, I watched dozens, of his games live on TV.

[Deuce Bigalow]

In 1980, Bill Russell was named the greatest NBA player on the NBA's 35th anniversary team.

In 2000, Michael Jordan was named ESPY's Athlete of the 20th century.

[LAZERUSS]

In 1980, Bill Russell was named the best NBA player on the NBA's 35th anniversary team.

In 2000, Michael Jordan was named ESPY's athlete of the 20th century.

And I am relatively certain that the voters did not see Wilt (nor Russell) ever play a game. Why? Because it was the Basketball Writers of America who voted Russell as the best player on the 35th anniversary team. Which is strange, since it was the WRITERS who voted Wilt ahead of Russell seven times in all-NBA selections in their 10 years together, and when the two were actually playing.


And by 2000, probably even a considerably less ever saw Chamberlain's absolute domination of his peers.

[Deuce Bigalow]

And I am relatively certain that the voters did not see Wilt (nor Russell) ever play a game. Why? Because it was the Basketball Writers of America who voted Russell as the best player on the 35th anniversary team. Which is strange, since it was the WRITERS who voted Wilt ahead of Russell seven times in all-NBA selections in their 10 years together, and when the two were actually playing.


And by 2000, probably even a considerably less ever saw Chamberlain's absolute domination of his peers.
It was done in 1980, sorry. They voted for Russell who came to the NBA BEFORE Wilt. YOU NEVER SAW WILT PLAY IN THE 60S. Wilt wasn't even the best player of his era, Russell was as evident by him being named the greatest player in '80 when both his and Wilt's careers were over. I can post more facts of Jordan being the #1 ATHLETE forget NBA player of the last century.

[Deuce Bigalow]

The following players are more dominant PLAYOFF performers than Wilt:

MJ
Russell
Magic
Bird
Kareem
Kobe
Shaq
Duncan
Hakeem
Lebron
West
Baylor
Pettit
Mikan

[LAZERUSS]

It was done in 1980, sorry. They voted for Russell who came to the NBA BEFORE Wilt. YOU NEVER SAW WILT PLAY IN THE 60S. Wilt wasn't even the best player of his era, Russell was as evident by him being named the greatest player in '80 when both his and Wilt's careers were over. I can post more facts of Jordan being the #1 ATHLETE forget NBA player of the last century.

Yes I did see MANY of the Russell-Wilt H2H's, and I never came away ever thinking that Russell had outplayed Wilt. And again, Russell was voted that award in 1980. And yet the WRITERS who actually witnessed Russell and Chamberlain clearly voted Wilt as the best player of his era. Not even close.

As for best ATHLETE? You have to be kidding. Wilt was a MULTI-TRACK star at KU, and even won a conference high-jump championship. There were many at the time that claimed that Chamberlain was the strongest man alive, as well. He played against Olympic and world-class volleyball players, and more than held his own. He was offered a LEGITIMATE contract to play for the Chiefs in the mid-60's by none other than Hank Stram (after he witnessed a 27 year old Wilt, at 290 lbs, outrace his fastest running back in a 40 yard sprint.) And, Chamberlain was TWICE offered LEGITIMATE contracts to fight Ali (and even none other than Cus D'Amato felt he could train Wilt enough to win those fights.) And after retirement, none other than a world-class body-builder, Arnold Schwartzenenegger, was absolutely stunned by the weight Chamberlain was throwing around in the gym.

How about MJ? He was offered a minor league baseball contract, and flopped in the sport.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Yes I did see MANY of the Russell-Wilt H2H's, and I never came away ever thinking that Russell had outplayed Wilt. And again, Russell was voted that award in 1980. And yet the WRITERS who actually witnessed Russell and Chamberlain clearly voted Wilt as the best player of his era. Not even close.

As for best ATHLETE? You have to be kidding. Wilt was a MULTI-TRACK star at KU, and even won a conference high-jump championship. There were many at the time that claimed that Chamberlain was the strongest man alive, as well. He played against Olympic and world-class volleyball players, and more than held his own. He was offered a LEGITIMATE contract to play for the Chiefs in the mid-60's by none other than Hank Stram (after he witnessed a 27 year old Wilt, at 290 lbs, outrace his fastest running back in a 40 yard sprint.) And, Chamberlain was TWICE offered LEGITIMATE contracts to fight Ali (and even none other than Cus D'Amato felt he could train Wilt enough to win those fights.) And after retirement, none other than a world-class body-builder, Arnold Schwartzenenegger, was absolutely stunned by the weight Chamberlain was throwing around in the gym.

How about MJ? He was offered a minor league baseball contract, and flopped in the sport.
Athlete as in your own sport. MJ was more dominant in his sport than any athlete in theirs. Again, Wilt wasn't even voted GOAT IN HIS OWN ERA. All-NBA teams are REGULAR SEASON AWARDS. Russell is an 11-time champion. Russell's PPG, RPG, APG, FT% went up in the Playoffs for his career.

[LAZERUSS]

The following players are more dominant PLAYOFF performers than Wilt:

MJ
Russell
Magic
Bird
Kareem
Kobe
Shaq
Duncan
Hakeem
Lebron
West
Baylor
Pettit
Mikan

Sorry, but NO, NONE of them sniffed Wilt's post-season dominance. I already gave you the numbers. And again, you rank post-season series, in which MJ often lost in three games, or Hakeem often lost in the first round, or Bird, who often lost with HCA, or West who never won a ring until Chamberlain carried him to one in'72, or Shaq who was swept six times, and nearly eight, or Baylor who never even won a ring, or Russell who was thoroughly outplayed Wilt in EVERY post-season H2H series...all ahead of Chamberlain???

Your criteria is pure garbage my friend.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Sorry, but NO, NONE of them sniffed Wilt's post-season dominance. I already gave you the numbers. And again, you rank post-season series, in which MJ often lost in three games, or Hakeem often lost in the first round, or Bird, who often lost with HCA, or West who never won a ring until Chamberlain carried him to one in'72, or Shaq who was swept six times, and nearly eight, or Baylor who never even won a ring, or Russell who was thoroughly outplayed Wilt in EVERY post-season H2H series...all ahead of Chamberlain???

Your criteria is pure garbage my friend.
This is garbage. West couldn't win a title until Wilt carried him? 1969 Finals - West 37.9 PPG, Wilt 11.7 PPG. West averaged 30.5 PPG for his Finals career and that's including his past his prime Finals in '72 and '73. Baylor never won a ring? He went to 7 Finals and led the playoffs in scoring 4 years which is 3 more times than Wilt. Baylor also averaged over 40 PPG for a Finals series in '62. MJ has basically every scoring record in the playoffs. Russell won 11 rings and been to 12 Finals in 13 years.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Baylor for example...

33/14/3 in the '60 playoffs
38/17/5 in the '61 playoffs
39/18/4 in the '62 playoffs
33/14/5 in the '63 playoffs

These led to FINALS APPEARANCES too.

[Deuce Bigalow]

HIGHEST FINALS SERIES PPG

Michael Jordan, 1993 Finals - 41.0
Rick Barry, 1967 Finals - 40.8
Elgin Baylor, 1962 Finals - 40.6
Shaquille O'Neal, 2000 Finals - 38.0
Jerry West, 1969 Finals - 37.9
Shaquille O'Neal, 2002 Finals - 36.3
Michael Jordan, 1992 Finals - 35.8
Allen Iverson, 2001 Finals - 35.6
Dwyane Wade, 2006 Finals - 34.7
Jerry West, 1966 Finals - 33.9
Elgin Baylor, 1963 Finals - 33.8
Jerry West, 1965 Finals - 33.8
Michael Jordan, 1998 Finals - 33.5
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, 1980 Finals - 33.4
Shaquille O'Neal, 2001 Finals - 33.0
Hakeem Olajuwon, 1995 Finals - 32.8
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, 1974 Finals - 32.6
Kobe Bryant, 2009 Finals - 32.4
Michael Jordan, 1997 Finals - 32.3
George Mikan, 1950 Finals - 32.2
Jerry West, 1968 Finals - 31.3
Jerry West, 1970 Finals - 31.3
Michael Jordan, 1991 Finals - 31.2
Jerry West, 1962 Finals - 31.1
Kevin Durant, 2012 Finals - 30.6
Julius Erving, 1977 Finals - 30.3
Bob Pettit, 1957 Finals - 30.1
Where's Wilt?

[ImKobe]

HIGHEST FINALS SERIES PPG

Where's Wilt?

ether

[Keno]

Kobe: 5

the tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

tee, hee.

the "tired old shit bag" is at least healthy and currently playing.

[moe94]

HIGHEST FINALS SERIES PPG

Where's Wilt?
http://cdn.niketalk.com/e/e2/e2c2718e_dwyane-wade-damn-o.gif

[LAZERUSS]

HIGHEST FINALS SERIES PPG

Where's Wilt?

and


Baylor for example...

33/14/3 in the '60 playoffs
38/17/5 in the '61 playoffs
39/18/4 in the '62 playoffs
33/14/5 in the '63 playoffs

These led to FINALS APPEARANCES too.

I'll tell you where Wilt was. His team was losing to the same team that Baylor and West was in those seasons...the Celtics. The only difference being, that Wilt's teams lost to them in the EDF's, instead of the Finals (except in '63 when his teammates were so putrid that Wilt with a 45-23-.528 season couldn't get them into the playoffs.)

Guess what happened in '64 in the WEST? It was Wilt single-handedly carrying his Warriors to the FINALS (where were West and Baylor in '64) and then losing in the Finals to Russell's Celtics and their eight HOFers.

And West and Baylor were TWO great players, and neither won any more rings from '60 to '66 than Chamberlain did, and yet they were losing to Boston just as often. And all Wilt did against Russell and the Celtics from '60 thru '66, was to put up playoff series of 30-26 .500; 34-26 .468; 29-28 .517; 30-31 .555; and 28-30 .509...all against RUSSELL and his swarming teammates.

And, had Wilt's teams scored a total of three more points in '62 and '65, and it would have been Chamberlain in the FINALS and against the Lakers centers whom Russell just killed in the those years. Think about this, in '62 Russell put up a Finals against LA of 23-27 .543, which included a game seven of 30-40. In that same regular season, Chamberlain faced the Lakers nine times, and AVERAGED 52 ppg against them on a .500 FG%. Included were THREE games of 60+, and even a 78-43 game. Clearly, had Wilt's team made it to the Finals in '62, and Wilt would probably own every major Finals scoring record.

And in '65, Wilt took a 40-40 team to a game seven, one point loss, against the 62-18 Celtics, with a monster 30 ppg, 31 rpg, .555 FG% series. And he hedl Russell to a 16 ppg, 25 rpg, and .447 FG% series in the process. How did Russell do against the Lakers in the Finals that season? He averaged 18 ppg, 25 rpg, and shot... get thois ... .702 from the field. Oh, and with Baylor injured, the Celtics crushed West's Lakers, 4-1. West, without Baylor, did far worse than Chamberlain, who basically had to fight the Celts by himself.

And you could carry that to '66, as well. Against the Lakers in the Finals, Russell put up a 24-24 .538 series. However, against Wilt in the EDF's, Russell put up a 14-26 .451 series. If Russell could nearly double his scoring, and on a far greater efficiency against the Lakers, then just imagine what Chamberlain would have been pouring in against them.

And then how about '67? Where were West and Baylor that post-season? They were wiped out by the Warriors in the first round. Oh, and how did Chamberlain's Sixers do against the eight-time defending Celtics? they annihilated them behind a Chamberlain who put up a 22-32-10 .556 series. And then Chamberlain wiped the floor with Thurmond in the Finals, en route to a 4-2 series win. Wilt did what West and Baylor, combined, could not do in any post-season series against Boston.

And idiots here claim that Wilt's play "declined" in his post-seasons. In Wilt's "scoring" seasons, from 60-66, he went to the playoffs six times (and missing them in one year in which he put up a 45 ppg .528 season.) In those 52 playoff games, he faced RUSSELL and Boston in 30 of them. From '60 thru '64, he played in four playoff series against non-Boston teams. In those four series, he averaged 37 ppg, 37 ppg, 39 ppg, and 39 ppg. And again, had he played in the WEST for the majority of his "scoring" seasons, he likely would have scored much more, and played in more playoff series and games. For example, in his '64 post-season, in the only series he played in before the Finals, he waxed the Hawks in a seven game series with a 39-23 .559 FG% series. BTW, the Hawks, player-for-player, 2-6, were considerably better than Wilt's teammates.

While the "Wilt-bashers" love to point out his ppg drop in the post-season, they will never acknowledge that Wilt battled the greatest defensive center, and the greatest dynasty in NBA history, in EIGHT series. I have posted the numbers before, but you can look them up yourself, but, MJ scored considerably less, and shot considerably worse in his FOUR playoff series against the "Bad Boys" (and in the last one, the Pistons were already in a major decline.) Same with Shaq in his FIVE series against the Spurs from '99 thru '05. WAY BELOW his normal seasonal averages. And how about a peak KAJ in his FIVE playoff series against Thurmond and Wilt from '71 thru '73? He averaged nearly SEVEN ppg less than his regular season average in that span, and how about this... he shot .563 against the NBA during the regular season in those three seasons...and against Nate and Wilt in those five series, combined... .450!