Could Yao have been a top 5 center ever barring injuries?

[Random_Guy]

Shaq thinks so.
Yes shaq is an idiot, but its truly hard to get respect from him, especially rival Cs, Yao was amazing too.

[Akrazotile]

No.

[MichaelCorleone]

No.

Top 10 maybe.

[Smook A.]

Yao really was great. I know because im a rockets fan. It was devastating when kobe ended his career by running into his knee. He could've been something special had he stayed healthy. Yao was a really smooth center. He had a very nice touch on his jumpshot and hooks. Not to mention, he was a pretty good free throw shooter too.

Top 5 all time is a stretch. I think if he stayed healthy, and consistently played like the 2004-2009 yao, he'd be in the top 15

[Railgun]

No.

[Random_Guy]

Yao really was great. I know because im a rockets fan. It was devastating when kobe ended his career by running into his knee. He could've been something special had he stayed healthy. Yao was really smooth center. He had a very nice touch on his jumpshot and hooks. Not to mention, he was a pretty good free throw shooter too.

Top 5 all time is a stretch. I think if he stayed healthy, and consistently played like the 2004-2009 yao, he'd be in the top 15
And Yao was actually incredibly strong too, notice how shaq had to really work to back him down in many of their matchups.

[YouGotServed]

Yes.

[sejoon101]

I think so. Another one of those "what if" scenarios in the NBA. Yao`s offensive aresenal was something truly special.

[iamgine]

I think so. People had an extremely difficult time scoring against him. And his offense was pretty unstoppable too. In a world where he wasn't injured and the refs call things fairly, he really could be not only top 5 but the greatest of all time.

[Vienceslav]

So it's
Kareem
Russell
Wilt
Shaq
Hakeem
DRob/Duncan/Moses
I don't see it.

[JohnFreeman]

No.

[cos88]

not even close and hard for top 10 also.

[T_L_P]

Even at Yao Ming's best, he was nowhere near top 5 Centre standard. :confusedshrug:

[Bandito]

No but he would be the best center today by a lot.

[mr.big35]

top 15 at his best

[Railgun]

No but he would be the best center today by a lot.
Yeah. You could say the same thing about Dwight if he never got hurt.

[AintNoSunshine]

Top 5 is an extremely tall order.

He was not going to be better than any of:
Kareem, Wilt, Russell, Shaq and Olajuwon.

Top 10 maybe.

[Bandito]

Yeah. You could say the same thing about Dwight if he never got hurt.
Yao> Dwight by a lot though. Yao was supposed to be the next best center in the history books.

Also in his peak Dwight was never that good, people were saying Bynum was on par with Dwight on 2012, coincidentally Dwight best year. Yao was being compared to Shaq only, a top 10 center in history.

[Railgun]

Yao> Dwight by a lot though. Yao was supposed to be the next best center in the history books.

Also in his peak Dwight was never that good, people were saying Bynum was on par with Dwight on 2012, coincidentally Dwight best year. Yao was being compared to Shaq only, a top 10 center in history.
Dwight's peak was 2011. He got robbed for an MVP. Dwight is literally almost better at everything in his prime that Yao was. No joke. Yao has a very slim advantage on offense. That's it. Dwight was the much better player rebounding the ball and defensively which are the most important traits for centers.

[Rubio2Gasol]

Very slim advantage on offense?

Jesus christ :roll:

Yao >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dwight.

[Railgun]

Very slim advantage on offense?

Jesus christ :roll:

Yao >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dwight.
Dwight in his prime
23/14 on 59% and 13 FGA

Yao Ming in his prime
25/9 on 51% and 17 FGA

So two extra points on 8% less shooting and 4 more FGA. That was also while Dwight had the larger defensive duty so he used more energy on that end. So yeah, slim. Really you could argue Dwight.

[SHAQisGOAT]

No chance

[sejoon101]

Dwight in his prime
23/14 on 59% and 13 FGA

Yao Ming in his prime
25/9 on 51% and 17 FGA

So two extra points on 8% less shooting and 4 more FGA. That was also while Dwight had the larger defensive duty so he used more energy on that end. So yeah, slim. Really you could argue Dwight.

Most of dwights points are within 5 feet of the basket. Yao had killer range. Matter fact, Yao's fg% is pretty impressive for his game. Dwight isn't in the same galaxy as Yao on offense. Off topic, your main acc get banned Jameer? Is it short term or a perma?

[Rubio2Gasol]

Only reason that hack ever cracked 20 is because people deliberately foul his ass. He had one face up move, for which the Magic used to have to clear an entire side of the court for him to do.

Other than rolling, Yao was was better at every facet of the game. And that idiot Dwight don't even want to set proper picks and roll hard any more. Dude is the worst half court offensive star in the history of the league.

[ZMonkey11]

Dwight in his prime
23/14 on 59% and 13 FGA

Yao Ming in his prime
25/9 on 51% and 17 FGA

So two extra points on 8% less shooting and 4 more FGA. That was also while Dwight had the larger defensive duty so he used more energy on that end. So yeah, slim. Really you could argue Dwight.

Wow. You were out of the womb yet when Yao played?

[Collie]

Dwight's peak was 2011. He got robbed for an MVP. Dwight is literally almost better at everything in his prime that Yao was. No joke. Yao has a very slim advantage on offense. That's it. Dwight was the much better player rebounding the ball and defensively which are the most important traits for centers.

Yao was a comparable defender. He anchored some amazing defensive teams. Don't discount his FT shooting as well, which is HUGE.

[Railgun]

Most of dwights points are within 5 feet of the basket. Yao had killer range. Matter fact, Yao's fg% is pretty impressive for his game. Dwight isn't in the same galaxy as Yao on offense. Off topic, your main acc get banned Jameer? Is it short term or a perma?
Who cares where his range is? Two points is two points. Regardless if it came up close or from a midrange jumpshot. Also, two points inside impact the game more. Dwight in his prime was doubled a lot. I'm not sure if you can say the same about Ming. The offensive difference isn't big at all. Like I said, you could argue it in Dwight's favor.
My other account is banned until Monday.

[Railgun]

Yao was a comparable defender. He anchored some amazing defensive teams. Don't discount his FT shooting as well, which is HUGE.
No he wasn't. He was maybe on par with his man to man defense but that's it. Dwight was the much much better defender. Man to man defense for a center isn't that important in this current league anyways since like 3-4 centers post up on a consistent basis. Dwight Howard was the far and away better defender.

[Railgun]

Only reason that hack ever cracked 20 is because people deliberately foul his ass. He had one face up move, for which the Magic used to have to clear an entire side of the court for him to do.

Other than rolling, Yao was was better at every facet of the game. And that idiot Dwight don't even want to set proper picks and roll hard any more. Dude is the worst half court offensive star in the history of the league.
2 points is 2 points. Dwight was better than Yao. Get over it.

[Bandito]

Dwight's peak was 2011. He got robbed for an MVP. Dwight is literally almost better at everything in his prime that Yao was. No joke. Yao has a very slim advantage on offense. That's it. Dwight was the much better player rebounding the ball and defensively which are the most important traits for centers.
Stop reading right here. Yao was getting 12 rebounds and putting 26 pts under 30 mins in 08 for a long stretch of games because they were trying to keep him healthy for the playoffs. He was the only one in years who could stand on par with Shaq. His offense was years better than Dwight who is subpar against Bynum's offense. Please Dwight is not better than Yao at nothing except running.

[Bandito]

2 points is 2 points. Dwight was better than Yao. Get over it.
Dwight was barely better than 2012 Bynum. Get over it.

[Railgun]

Stop reading right here. Yao was getting 12 rebounds and putting 26 pts under 30 mins in 08 for a long stretch of games because they were trying to keep him healthy for the playoffs. He was the only one in years who could stand on par with Shaq. His offense was years better than Dwight who is subpar against Bynum's offense. Please Dwight is not better than Yao at nothing except running.
Dwight was doing shit like putting up 20/20 every other game in '11. You guys have shown nothing that says it isn't close just "hurr durr Yao makes pwetty post moves" I don't care about who has more moves. I care about who puts the basketball in the hole more and at a more efficient rate. It's close.

[inclinerator]

yes, he could probably kick out ewing

[mr.big35]

howard got no post moves. his offensive game is nowhere near yao

[Bandito]

Dwight was doing shit like putting up 20/20 every other game in '11. You guys have shown nothing that says it isn't close just "hurr durr Yao makes pwetty post moves" I don't care about who has more moves. I care about who puts the basketball in the hole more and at a more efficient rate. It's close.
But Yao was miles better at offense and at defense they were pretty close to each other with Dwight being better athletically. Dwight doesn't hold a candle to yao.

[Railgun]

But Yao was miles better at offense and at defense they were pretty close to each other with Dwight being better athletically. Dwight doesn't hold a candle to yao.
Show me why. Why was Yao so much better offensively? (he wasn't.) Defensively it wasn't close and I really shouldn't have to explain that to you.
It wasn't even like 2011 Dwight didn't have post moves either:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slOlB_LfB-o
I can show you countless videos like this too.

[Psileas]

Does anyone seriously think Yao would be able to put his name among Wilt-Russell-Kareem-Shaq-Hakeem? Do you think he'd pracically be a GOAT candidate? Even when healthy, he never came close. Some NBA guys are too bad with numbers.

[sejoon101]

Stop reading right here. Yao was getting 12 rebounds and putting 26 pts under 30 mins in 08 for a long stretch of games because they were trying to keep him healthy for the playoffs. He was the only one in years who could stand on par with Shaq. His offense was years better than Dwight who is subpar against Bynum's offense. Please Dwight is not better than Yao at nothing except running.

Remember the season where Yao started the 2006 season before he got injured, he averaged something like 27-10? My goodness. I dont think anyone that size could ever have silky fluid movement like him. Thoughg he was going to get the MVP for sure that year but stupid injuries...
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk158/sejoon101/fat-ballerina.gif (http://s279.photobucket.com/user/sejoon101/media/fat-ballerina.gif.html)

People like to bring up tmac roy penny in the what if discussion if not injured... but if Yao wasn't injured... cawt damn! Would have been a stellar sight to see
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk158/sejoon101/YouremindmeofVinceMcMahoninthisgif_14ee4f7c1b6ddd4 87d68eb22885cd9a6.gif (http://s279.photobucket.com/user/sejoon101/media/YouremindmeofVinceMcMahoninthisgif_14ee4f7c1b6ddd4 87d68eb22885cd9a6.gif.html)

[dunksby]

Top 10 maybe, that is if he got 10+ healthy years and a long prime. Let's face it, a 7'6" guy will always have a hard time staying 100% for long in the NBA.

[Railgun]

Just as I thought.
"Yao is the better offensive center by a wide margin!!!"
"Prove it"
*crickets*

[Bandito]

Remember the season where Yao started the 2006 season before he got injured, he averaged something like 27-10? My goodness. I dont think anyone that size could ever have silky fluid movement like him. Thoughg he was going to get the MVP for sure that year but stupid injuries...
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk158/sejoon101/fat-ballerina.gif (http://s279.photobucket.com/user/sejoon101/media/fat-ballerina.gif.html)

People like to bring up tmac roy penny in the what if discussion if not injured... but if Yao wasn't injured... cawt damn! Would have been a stellar sight to see
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk158/sejoon101/YouremindmeofVinceMcMahoninthisgif_14ee4f7c1b6ddd4 87d68eb22885cd9a6.gif (http://s279.photobucket.com/user/sejoon101/media/YouremindmeofVinceMcMahoninthisgif_14ee4f7c1b6ddd4 87d68eb22885cd9a6.gif.html)
I remember! I used to be a huge Yao fan at the time. He was that good! He had the whole package. If I remember right that was the year they got Mcgrady.

[Bandito]

Show me why. Why was Yao so much better offensively? (he wasn't.) Defensively it wasn't close and I really shouldn't have to explain that to you.
It wasn't even like 2011 Dwight didn't have post moves either:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slOlB_LfB-o
I can show you countless videos like this too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFye5eJvjWY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rVH0uqeYJc

And here are some post drills so Dwight can learn some post moves. :lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRmOhVQsrCI


Also the reason I don't post a ot of vid is because I don't frequent youtube at all. I only watch the games that TNT and ESPN airs. I don't watch replays or anything NBA.com releases.

[Bandito]

Just as I thought.
"Yao is the better offensive center by a wide margin!!!"
"Prove it"
*crickets*You haven't proved anything either. I've seen people talk about Dwight post moves or lack thereof and why Yao is a better player.

[Railgun]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFye5eJvjWY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rVH0uqeYJc

And here are some post drills so Dwight can learn some post moves. :lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRmOhVQsrCI


Also the reason I don't post a ot of vid is because I don't frequent youtube at all. I only watch the games that TNT and ESPN airs. I don't watch replays or anything NBA.com releases.
Lot of post moves, but like I said before: The difference in points was slim with Dwight being more efficient. The difference in offense is slim. Defensively, it's huge. Stats don't lie.

[Railgun]

You haven't proved anything either. I've seen people talk about Dwight post moves or lack thereof and why Yao is a better player.
Yes I did. I showed you the stats and why the margin was slim on offense. No one has even challenged that point yet other than saying stupid shit like "It was on dunks" or something. Which really doesn't matter.

[Bandito]

Yes I did. I showed you the stats and why the margin was slim on offense. No one has even challenged that point yet other than saying stupid shit like "It was on dunks" or something. Which really doesn't matter.
But you also have to take on the MPG's. Yao played less minutes per game than Dwight because they were preventing him from getting injured.

All you are seeing are stats and not watching the game objectively. I watched them both on games and I don't see anything that says Diwght is as good as Yao was back in the day. Yao could hang with Shaq in the post while Dwight couldn't hang with an old Shaq.

[Railgun]

But you also have to take on the MPG's. Yao played less minutes per game than Dwight because they were preventing him from getting injured.

All you are seeing are stats and not watching the game objectively. I watched them both on games and I don't see anything that says Diwght is as good as Yao was back in the day. Yao could hang with Shaq in the post while Dwight couldn't hang with an old Shaq.
Dwight had the bigger load rebounding and defensively, so he had less energy on offense.

[Bandito]

Dwight had the bigger load rebounding and defensively, so he had less energy on offense.
The same can be said about Yao but viceversa:facepalm

Now you're making excuses...:facepalm

[Railgun]

The same can be said about Yao but viceversa:facepalm

Now you're making excuses...:facepalm
No. Not really.

[Bandito]

No. Not really.
Explain how?

[Railgun]

Explain how?
Dwight had the much larger role rebounding and defensively. That is pretty much unarguable.

[Bandito]

Dwight had the much larger role rebounding and defensively. That is pretty much unarguable.
:facepalm

This kid thinks Yao was just there on the defense just watching at everyone like a spectator. He was the defensive and rebounding anchor on that team. Wait a minute keep forgetting you are 14. You probably didn't even watch him live:facepalm

[Railgun]

:facepalm

This kid thinks Yao was just there on the defense just watching at everyone like a spectator. He was the defensive and rebounding anchor on that team. Wait a minute keep forgetting you are 14. You probably didn't even watch him live:facepalm
He was but it's not even arguable that he was a better rebounder than Dwight or the better defender. Not even an argument. Thus he had a smaller role.

[eriX]

I think Yao would've definitely had a chance to put himself in the top 10 had he been healthy. His mid range game was wet as hell, good ft shooter, great post moves and since hes so tall he could shoot over anyone anyway. Defensively he can hang with the best with that strong lower body and long arms. If yao would be perfect in todays game, a stretch 5 that can defend also :rockon:

[CelticBaller]

Top 10 yes

[sejoon101]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=mingya01&p2=howardw01

I really didnt want to do this because I like you Jameer.

Numbers do not speak for themselves all the time. This is the main problem all of us non Bran stans have against ESPN and other media sources.

We look back at the 12 13 and 14 seasons. A few years later.

You going to tell me any sane person who actually watches and knows basketball is going to say Kevin Love is better than Kevin Garnett???

[Railgun]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=mingya01&p2=howardw01

I really didnt want to do this because I like you Jameer.

Numbers do not speak for themselves all the time. This is the main problem all of us non Bran stans have against ESPN and other media sources.

We look back at the 12 13 and 14 seasons. A few years later.

You going to tell me any sane person who actually watches and knows basketball is going to say Kevin Love is better than Kevin Garnett???
Was waiting for this actually. Most of those are vs. a young/rookie Dwight. Not one game was played vs him in his prime. Which is what I'm talking about.

[STATUTORY]

f@ck no, all you had to do was front him

but he's still way better than dwight as are most competent 7fters

[Bandito]

He was but it's not even arguable that he was a better rebounder than Dwight or the better defender. Not even an argument. Thus he had a smaller role.
How can you have a smaller role on defense when you are a center. You're there to defend the paint, grab rebound and block anyone who stands in your way. Plus he used to camp there, heck he probably had a shipment of smores coming every game.

[VIntageNOvel]

dafuq:eek:
jameer is like 13,
he hasnt started watching nba when yao was playing


btw
jameer are you banned permanently

[Railgun]

How can you have a smaller role on defense when you are a center. You're there to defend the paint, grab rebound and block anyone who stands in your way. Plus he used to camp there, heck he probably had a shipment of smores coming every game.
Because Dwight had worse defenders on his team while also being the much better defender. More players had open lanes to the basket, so Dwight had to cover it up.

My biggest gripe with Yao defensively (and it's not just me, I have heard Houston fans actually say this) is that he was slow. Very slow. Defensively nowadays speed and athleticism is more important than it was back then since there are less centers that actually post up. Pick n roll defense and just defending the rim is very important, and Yao was maybe slightly above average while Dwight was one of the best to ever defend the pick n roll. Think about the best defensive centers now: Hibbert, Bogut, Noah, Howard etc. are all quick are on their feet compared to Yao.

[MichaelCorleone]

Is Yao good? Can Kobe play with him?

[Railgun]

dafuq:eek:
jameer is like 13,
he hasnt started watching nba when yao was playing


btw
jameer are you banned permanently
15*
I'm not banned permanently.

[mr.big35]

15*
I'm not banned permanently.

you missed prime yao's game it was fantastic to watch

[CelticBaller]

Yao is not better than Dwight lol

[Railgun]

Yao is not better than Dwight lol
Better than current Dwight, yeah. Prime Dwight? No, and it's really not even that close...

[Collie]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=mingya01&p2=howardw01

I really didnt want to do this because I like you Jameer.

Numbers do not speak for themselves all the time. This is the main problem all of us non Bran stans have against ESPN and other media sources.

We look back at the 12 13 and 14 seasons. A few years later.

You going to tell me any sane person who actually watches and knows basketball is going to say Kevin Love is better than Kevin Garnett???

Even if you just take the games during the 07 to 09 seasons (where Dwight was averaging 21/14), Yao still averaged 22/14 to Dwight's 16/9

[MichaelCorleone]

Yao is not better than Dwight lol
Is Dwight good? Can Kobe play with him?

[Railgun]

Even if you just take the games during the 07 to 09 seasons (where Dwight was averaging 21/14), Yao still averaged 22/14 to Dwight's 16/9
Prime Dwight is 2011.

[Bandito]

Because Dwight had worse defenders on his team while also being the much better defender. More players had open lanes to the basket, so Dwight had to cover it up.

My biggest gripe with Yao defensively (and it's not just me, I have heard Houston fans actually say this) is that he was slow. Very slow. Defensively nowadays speed and athleticism is more important than it was back then since there are less centers that actually post up. Pick n roll defense and just defending the rim is very important, and Yao was maybe slightly above average while Dwight was one of the best to ever defend the pick n roll. Think about the best defensive centers now: Hibbert, Bogut, Noah, Howard etc. are all quick are on their feet compared to Yao.
Still was good defensively and you could use him as a defensive anchor nontheless. He wasn't as good as Dwight but he was better than Hibbert and Bogut by a lot. He was slow but he was big and strong something they don't have. As long as he was on the way most players couldn't score on him.

Worst case scenario he was average in Defense where Dwight is average to bad on offense anyways. People like to say he's elite on offense but Yao scored as much as him in less than 30 minutes per game with better numbers which say something about Dwight 'eliteness' on offense.

[sejoon101]

Was waiting for this actually. Most of those are vs. a young/rookie Dwight. Not one game was played vs him in his prime. Which is what I'm talking about.

Hellz naw. 2009 dwight was the best form weve seen of dwight. 2007 dwight was already on the map and by 2008 people were starting to call him the best C ij the game. 2009 yao was already injury plagued like a mofo. Look at their head to heads in yaos later years.

Absolutely DESTROYED dwight LITERALLY everytime they met. This isn't really a discussion. People be giving players crap for losing 1 or 2 head to head to heads. (See bran vs durant) Yao vs Dwight?? Absolutely no excuse.

Not to mentio one of the most important factors in determining if a player is good or great. One word. clutch. You CANNOT FOUL YAO IN THE 4TH. YOU JUST CANT. Yao is the greatest big man FT shooter in history.

People that are saying yao is better is saying so because yao is simply better at every aspect of the game besides man to man defense which was pretty even, dwight has athleticism over yao, and dwights a better team defender.

All you are giving us is stats and numbers.

[K Xerxes]

Not saying he was better than Yao, but peak 2011 Dwight might be one of the most underrated and disrespected players in history. You don't put up 23-14 on 59% in the regular season and then 27-16 on 63% in the playoffs by being a scrub offensively. Some of you are too obsessed with variety of moves when what actually matters is putting the ball through the hoop, which Dwight was clearly effective at doing in Orlando.

Yao was better offensively and perhaps overall, but Dwights defense makes this close. Anyone saying differently either didnt watch Yao or is a Dwight hater for whatever reason.

[Bandito]

Not saying he was better than Yao, but peak 2011 Dwight might be one of the most underrated and disrespected players in history. You don't put up 23-14 on 59% in the regular season and then 27-16 on 63% in the playoffs by being a scrub offensively. Some of you are too obsessed with variety of moves when what actually matters is putting the ball through the hoop, which Dwight was clearly effective at doing in Orlando.

Yao was better offensively and perhaps overall, but Dwights defense makes this close. Anyone saying differently either didnt watch Yao or is a Dwight hater for whatever reason.
I agree with this.

[Railgun]

Still was good defensively and you could use him as a defensive anchor nontheless. He wasn't as good as Dwight but he was better than Hibbert and Bogut by a lot. He was slow but he was big and strong something they don't have. As long as he was on the way most players couldn't score on him.

Worst case scenario he was average in Defense where Dwight is average to bad on offense anyways. People like to say he's elite on offense but Yao scored as much as him in less than 30 minutes per game with better numbers which say something about Dwight 'eliteness' on offense.
1. No he wasn't.
2. Yao wasn't an average defender. Dwight isn't a bad offensive player. No player who gives you 23 on 60% shooting is a bad offensive player. End of story.
3. No he didn't. You literally just made this up.

[Bandito]

1. No he wasn't.
2. Yao wasn't an average defender. Dwight isn't a bad offensive player. No player who gives you 23 on 60% shooting is a bad offensive player. End of story.
3. No he didn't. You literally just made this up.
2. Compared to Yao, he is.
3. Uh yes he did. I watch those games bub.

[Railgun]

How do people say overall Yao is better?
Offensively: Yao by a slim margin
Rebounding: Dwight by a comfortable margin
Defense: Dwight by a very noticeable margin
Is there something I'm missing? Overall Prime Dwight was the better player.

[STATUTORY]

I dont think any version of dwight was even able to score a bucket on yao in their matchups, this one isn't close. Despite revisionist history to the contrary

[Bandito]

How do people say overall Yao is better?
Offensively: Yao by a slim margin
Rebounding: Dwight by a comfortable margin
Defense: Dwight by a very noticeable margin
Is there something I'm missing? Overall Prime Dwight was the better player.
More mpg though...per 36 tells a different story...

[Railgun]

Hellz naw. 2009 dwight was the best form weve seen of dwight. 2007 dwight was already on the map and by 2008 people were starting to call him the best C ij the game. 2009 yao was already injury plagued like a mofo. Look at their head to heads in yaos later years.

Absolutely DESTROYED dwight LITERALLY everytime they met. This isn't really a discussion. People be giving players crap for losing 1 or 2 head to head to heads. (See bran vs durant) Yao vs Dwight?? Absolutely no excuse.

Not to mentio one of the most important factors in determining if a player is good or great. One word. clutch. You CANNOT FOUL YAO IN THE 4TH. YOU JUST CANT. Yao is the greatest big man FT shooter in history.

People that are saying yao is better is saying so because yao is simply better at every aspect of the game besides man to man defense which was pretty even, dwight has athleticism over yao, and dwights a better team defender.

All you are giving us is stats and numbers.
1. No it isn't. Almost all Magic fans agree that 2011 was Dwight's best year.
2. How many games did Yao play vs. Prime Dwight? None. Is Melo better than Durant? He beats him in H2H matchups.
You guys have shown me no stats to back anything up. Just "I like post moves."

[VIntageNOvel]

okay so jameer like loli and yuri, but bandito prefer mature woman
its a matter of preference
no point to argue :confusedshrug:

[Bandito]

okay so jameer like loli and yuri, but bandito prefer mature woman
its a matter of preference
no point to argue :confusedshrug:
:roll:

you forgot asian:pimp:

[Railgun]

More mpg though...per 36 tells a different story...
Are you talking about rebounding? Come on. It's very obvious that Dwight is the better rebounder. This should not be an argument. Dwight is the alltime leader in 20/20 games I'm pretty sure.

[STATUTORY]

Are you talking about rebounding? Come on. It's very obvious that Dwight is the better rebounder. This should not be an argument. Dwight is the alltime leader in 20/20 games I'm pretty sure.
that's cause dwight played in a system that catered to him specifically, literally no one on the magic averaged more than 8 rebounds in any of dwight's years in orlando. basically they all deferred the team rebounds to dwight so he can pad his stats. compare their offensive rebound numbers and team rebound numbers, yao was better at generating rebounds for his team, dwight simply took up a bigger percentage of his team's total rebounds.

[Railgun]

that's cause dwight played in a system that catered to him specifically, literally no one on the magic averaged more than 8 rebounds in any of dwight's years in orlando. basically they all deferred the team rebounds to dwight so he can pad his stats. compare their offensive rebound numbers and team rebound numbers, yao was better at generating rebounds for his team, dwight simply took up a bigger percentage of his team's total rebounds.
Yep. It certainly has nothing to do with Dwight being an amazing rebounder. The team just let Dwight get rebounds. I agree. Thanks for sharing.

[Bandito]

Are you talking about rebounding? Come on. It's very obvious that Dwight is the better rebounder. This should not be an argument. Dwight is the alltime leader in 20/20 games I'm pretty sure.
No he isn't, it is Wilt.:roll:

[Railgun]

No he isn't, it is Wilt.:roll:
Modern-day NBA.

[FKAri]

No.

Maybe top 10?

Kareem
Wilt
Russell
Shaq
Malone
Robinson
Hakeem
Walton

He might have been able to fit in right below these guys (or above Walton) in an idealistic world where he had Kareem like longevity otherwise not even top 10.



Better than current Dwight, yeah. Prime Dwight? No, and it's really not even that close...

Disagree with that. The gap between current Dwight and "prime" Dwight has less to do with injuries than it does with not having a team constructed for the sole purpose of inflating his numbers. Though the current Houston team has a ton of shooters as well.

[STATUTORY]

Yep. It certainly has nothing to do with Dwight being an amazing rebounder. The team just let Dwight get rebounds. I agree. Thanks for sharing.
holy strawman, they sell hay by the pound down there in orlando? :rolleyes:

[Railgun]

holy strawman, they sell hay by the pound down there in orlando? :rolleyes:
That wasn't a strawman. Do you even know what that is?

[STATUTORY]

That wasn't a strawman. Do you even know what that is?
yes i know what it is, i was giving a reason for dwight and yao's rebound differential and you responded as if i was arguing dwight wasnt a good rebounder, that is pretty much textbook strawman btw

[Railgun]

No.

Maybe top 10?

Kareem
Wilt
Russell
Shaq
Malone
Robinson
Hakeem
Walton

He might have been able to fit in right below these guys (or above Walton) in an idealistic world where he had Kareem like longevity otherwise not even top 10.




Disagree with that. The gap between current Dwight and "prime" Dwight has less to do with injuries than it does with not having a team constructed for the sole purpose of inflating his numbers. Though the current Houston team has a ton of shooters as well.
It's more than that. Prime Dwight would be the DPOY rather than Noah. You can see the difference in the types of shots he takes too. Nowadays he isn't consistent enough to be a number one option. You rarely see him do a running hook (his go to move) either because he turns it over often when he goes to the middle like that. Offensively, he'd be much more consistent in the post (to the the point where Houston could go to him more) and he'd be averaging 21-24 ppg.

[Bandito]

This is what happened to Dwight on offense daily. Look at that offensive awareness. Look at that positioning...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2TBz2phCgY

Even Nash yells at him.:oldlol:

[livinglegend]

Anyone that saw Yao play would know that Yao was a much better offensive player than Dwight. He had better post moves, better shooter, better free throw shooter, better passer. Yao s numbers are worse than Dwight for many reasons.
1. He played less minutes.
2. He was doubled very often when he got the ball.
3. Many teams were fronting him. They put one guy in front of him and another guy in his back. They were 2 guys preventing him from getting the ball.
4. Refs were disrespecting him a lot. He couldnt get calls. JVG complained a lot during one of the playoffs run.

Again anyone who saw both Dwight and Yao play would know Yao was much better than Dwight offensively.

[STATUTORY]

No.

Maybe top 10?

Kareem
Wilt
Russell
Shaq
Malone
Robinson
Hakeem
Walton

He might have been able to fit in right below these guys (or above Walton) in an idealistic world where he had Kareem like longevity otherwise not even top 10.




Disagree with that. The gap between current Dwight and "prime" Dwight has less to do with injuries than it does with not having a team constructed for the sole purpose of inflating his numbers. Though the current Houston team has a ton of shooters as well.

well said, this "prime" dwight only exist as a figment of dwight stans imagination. What really happened was dwight played in a contrived and niche system that actively inflated and padded stats by featuring 4 shooters who couldn't rebound for shit and simply stood at 3 point line for dwight to "go to work" which translated into low paint efficiency but nevertheless high ppg due to high usage and forcing the issue.

[Bandito]

It's more than that. Prime Dwight would be the DPOY rather than Noah. You can see the difference in the types of shots he takes too. Nowadays he isn't consistent enough to be a number one option. You rarely see him do a running hook (his go to move) either because he turns it over often when he goes to the middle like that. Offensively, he'd be much more consistent in the post (to the the point where Houston could go to him more) and he'd be averaging 21-24 ppg.
That's what happens when you depend on your athletic ability to be succesful doe.

[Railgun]

This is what happened to Dwight on offense daily. Look at that offensive awareness. Look at that positioning...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2TBz2phCgY

Even Nash yells at him.:oldlol:
>arguing prime Dwight
>posts a video of Dwight the season after his back surgery
:facepalm

[Bandito]

Anyone that saw Yao play would know that Yao was a much better offensive player than Dwight. He had better post moves, better shooter, better free throw shooter, better passer. Yao s numbers are worse than Dwight for many reasons.
1. He played less minutes.
2. He was doubled very often when he got the ball.
3. Many teams were fronting him. They put one guy in front of him and another guy in his back. They were 2 guys preventing him from getting the ball.
4. Refs were disrespecting him a lot. He couldnt get calls. JVG complained a lot during one of the playoffs run.

Again anyone who saw both Dwight and Yao play would know Yao was much better than Dwight offensively.
I can't believe I agree with livinglie in his thoughts.:facepalm

[PsychoBe]

That wasn't a strawman. Do you even know what that is?

you're 15 years old how do you even know what it is?


A straw man, also known in the UK as an Aunt Sally,[1][2] is a common type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on the misrepresentation of the original topic of argument. To be successful, a straw man argument requires that the audience be ignorant or uninformed of the original argument.

stay in school.

[sejoon101]

okay so jameer like loli and yuri, but bandito prefer mature woman
its a matter of preference
no point to argue :confusedshrug:

Quit hatin jameer gets all the hoes


Lulz
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk158/sejoon101/1098355_583538998354037_1749619040_n.jpg (http://s279.photobucket.com/user/sejoon101/media/1098355_583538998354037_1749619040_n.jpg.html)http ://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk158/sejoon101/LwTiW.gif (http://s279.photobucket.com/user/sejoon101/media/LwTiW.gif.html)


:roll:

you forgot asian:pimp:
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk158/sejoon101/2wd6fko.gif (http://s279.photobucket.com/user/sejoon101/media/2wd6fko.gif.html)

[Bandito]

>arguing prime Dwight
>posts a video of Dwight the season after his back surgery
:facepalm
I was talking about his postioning and his offensive IQ. Nobody is talking about athletic ability or something related. Why didn't he moved just two inches to the left? He would had a better path to the ball and be able to dunk it easily. But no he has stone feet.

[livinglegend]

well said, this "prime" dwight only exist as a figment of dwight stans imagination. What really happened was dwight played in a contrived and niche system that actively inflated and padded stats by featuring 4 shooters who couldn't rebound for shit and simply stood at 3 point line for dwight to "go to work" which translated into low paint efficiency but nevertheless high ppg due to high usage and forcing the issue.

This. Dwight s stats were inflated because of the system in Orlando. We all knew he didnt have much of an offensive game and still, he put up great numbers. After he left that team, his offensive game and numbers kind of get exposed.

[Railgun]

Anyone that saw Yao play would know that Yao was a much better offensive player than Dwight. He had better post moves, better shooter, better free throw shooter, better passer. Yao s numbers are worse than Dwight for many reasons.
1. He played less minutes.
2. He was doubled very often when he got the ball.
3. Many teams were fronting him. They put one guy in front of him and another guy in his back. They were 2 guys preventing him from getting the ball.
4. Refs were disrespecting him a lot. He couldnt get calls. JVG complained a lot during one of the playoffs run.

Again anyone who saw both Dwight and Yao play would know Yao was much better than Dwight offensively.
1. Not really an excuse. The ability to play more minutes is a good trait. Something else Dwight has over Yao.
2. The whole Magic offense was based off teams doubling Dwight Howard. Stop.
3. See above
4. This is stupid, but I'll address it: Dwight had a ton of trouble with the referees also:
http://www.orlandopinstripedpost.com/2010/12/31/1905565/dwight-howards-technical-fouls-concern-orlando-magic
http://www.aolnews.com/2010/12/31/van-gundy-says-officials-are-unfairly-targeting-dwight-howard/
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2010-04-07/sports/os-magic-wizards-siderbar-0408-20100407_1_national-media-dwight-howard-stan-van-gundy

Now go away.

[STATUTORY]

I was talking about his postioning and his offensive IQ. Nobody is talking about athletic ability or something related. Why didn't he moved just two inches to the left? He would had a better path to the ball and be able to dunk it easily. But no he has stone feet.

and stone hands too, he drops easy passes and bobbles the ball often when he can simply keep the ball high and score

the guy has long compensated for his utter shit bball iq, lack of any coherent post move, stiff feet, mechanical and robotic movements with his athletic ability.

not to mention his inflated self ego to refuse play pick and roll. in any other non injury depleted era of centers he wouldn't even be top 5 in the league

only reason dwight howard is anything more than the alonzo mourning of his generation is injuries to bynum, oden, yao.

[Railgun]

I like how I'm the only one who didn't pull an argument out of his ass this whole thread. No one else has even said anything of substance.

[Railgun]

yeah okay putting statutory on ignore he's retarded.

[STATUTORY]

the only semblance of a post game dwight could muster after a DECADE in the league is running parallel to the baseline and throwing the ball against the backboard like it's a hockey puck

and this fool has the audacity to call it a "hookshot"

[livinglegend]

1. Not really an excuse. The ability to play more minutes is a good trait. Something else Dwight has over Yao.
2. The whole Magic offense was based off teams doubling Dwight Howard. Stop.
3. See above
4. This is stupid, but I'll address it: Dwight had a ton of trouble with the referees also:
http://www.orlandopinstripedpost.com/2010/12/31/1905565/dwight-howards-technical-fouls-concern-orlando-magic
http://www.aolnews.com/2010/12/31/van-gundy-says-officials-are-unfairly-targeting-dwight-howard/
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2010-04-07/sports/os-magic-wizards-siderbar-0408-20100407_1_national-media-dwight-howard-stan-van-gundy

Now go away.

So you are telling me that Dwight was being fronted, 2 guys were preventing him for getting the ball? Did you actually watch Orlando s games? :oldlol: :oldlol:

[Railgun]

So you are telling me that Dwight was being fronted, 2 guys were preventing him for getting the ball? Did you actually watch Orlando s games? :oldlol: :oldlol:
If he was fronted then 1 guy would shade and help if needed.

[dgaras]

ill take the guy that could be put in the last 5 min of a tight game

dwight would get hacked

dwight has never been on yaos level. if you argue for that then youre crazy and an idiot. no reason to even take you seriously

[Railgun]

Bottom line is this:
Howard: 23 on 59%

Yao: (this is his highest scoring year. I didn't even use the one where he played more games, but averaged less.) 25 on 51% on 4 more attempts
No one has debated this yet. No one has anything to say. These are facts, and not bullshit I created in my head like you guys are doing right now.

[livinglegend]

If he was fronted then 1 guy would shade and help if needed.

He would probably get fronted for like 1-2 plays per 2 games.
Some teams were fronting Yao the whole game.

[Railgun]

He would probably get fronted for like 1-2 plays per 2 games.
Some teams were fronting Yao the whole game.
Any proof? Nope.

[PsychoBe]

If he was fronted then 1 guy would shade and help if needed.

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200403/26/images/0326.yao2.jpg
yao being ruthlessly doubled

http://dailysnark.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/820340106.gif

dwight running from a free throw.

[livinglegend]

Any proof? Nope.

Yeah, watch the Lakers-Rockets series 2009.
Game 1, no fronting, Yao killed them.
Game 2 they start fronting with 1 guy in front and another helping in the back.

[STATUTORY]

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200403/26/images/0326.yao2.jpg
yao being ruthlessly doubled

http://dailysnark.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/820340106.gif

dwight running from a free throw.

:oldlol: @ dwight laughing and clowning like he's playing tag during recess


corny smiling fool that doesn't have an ounce of competitive spirit

[Johnny Jones]

This thread pretty much confirms that Jameer is much older than 15 and that he is a virgin that loves in his mothers' basement pretending to be a 15 year old kid online.

[Railgun]

This thread pretty much confirms that Jameer is much older than 15 and that he is a virgin that loves in his mothers' basement pretending to be a 15 year old kid online.
Hey JJ got any facts? No? Then get the fvck out of here.

[Railgun]

Yeah, watch the Lakers-Rockets series 2009.
Game 1, no fronting, Yao killed them.
Game 2 they start fronting with 1 guy in front and another helping in the back.
You realize almost every dominant center is 'fronted' right?

[livinglegend]

You realize almost every dominant center is 'fronted' right?

This shows you clearly didnt watch Yao play ,and you are saying Howard is better just because of the stats.
Yao was being fronted the whole game. The whole strategy of some teams was fronting Yao so that he couldnt get the ball. Those teams wanted his other teammates to make the plays.
Many centers get fronted for 1-2 plays. Yao was being fronted the whole game.

[Railgun]

This shows you clearly didnt watch Yao play ,and you are saying Howard is better just because of the stats.
Yao was being fronted the whole game. The whole strategy of some teams was fronting Yao so that he couldnt get the ball. Those teams wanted his other teammates to make the plays.
Many centers get fronted for 1-2 plays. Yao was being fronted the whole game.
No evidence. I saw Yao in his prime btw.

[PsychoBe]

No evidence. I saw Yao in his prime btw.

no u didn't. yao in his prime was roughly 7+ years ago. you were barely alive.

[livinglegend]

No evidence. I saw Yao in his prime btw.

I told you, watch the LA vs Rockets 2009 series.
or multiple regular season games that year.

That s an evidence.

[Railgun]

I told you, watch the LA vs Rockets 2009 series.
or multiple regular season games that year.

That s an evidence.
Got a link?

[livinglegend]

Got a link?
:oldlol: :oldlol:

[ImKobe]

Top 10 for sure. In his first 3 seasons, he showed a lot of potential & in his "prime" he had some big numbers. The man was 7'6 with a deadly jump shot & no one could stop him inside, his bad health held back a career that could have been epic. Imagine healthy T-Mac & Yao together. Thank god (for me) that it didn't happen.

[Rocketswin2013]

Peak Yao was 25-10-2-2. 10 maybe, not 5.

[brantonli]

No evidence. I saw Yao in his prime btw.


Pretty sure we are getting trolled, but what were you doing during the. Portland playoff series? The only way portland could stop Yao was by fronting him the entire game, and pretty much the entire series too. Utah did it as well with Okur.

Also, Yao had more post moves and offensive skill sets in his little finger than Dwight ever has (even current Dwight's postups are nerve-wracking to watch). Dwight got by ppl with sheer athleticism and hops, Yao was the completely opposite.

[Railgun]

Pretty sure we are getting trolled, but what were you doing during the. Portland playoff series? The only way portland could stop Yao was by fronting him the entire game, and pretty much the entire series too. Utah did it as well with Okur.

Also, Yao had more post moves and offensive skill sets in his little finger than Dwight ever has (even current Dwight's postups are nerve-wracking to watch). Dwight got by ppl with sheer athleticism and hops, Yao was the completely opposite.
Who cares? 2 points are 2 points regardless of how you score them.
No one has debated why if Yao was so much better offensively why he only scored two points more on 8% less and 4 more attempts. No one.

[dgaras]

you cant rely on dwight to score the last 2 points. ever. unless you need a lob with .2 seconds left.

with yao you could rely on him to carry the team during offensive stalls. thats the difference

[livinglegend]

Who cares? 2 points are 2 points regardless of how you score them.
No one has debated why if Yao was so much better offensively why he only scored two points more on 8% less and 4 more attempts. No one.
As we said, Yao s numbers were lower because of more fronting and double teaming.

And Dwight s stats were inflated because of the system. Why didnt he put the same numbers after he left Orlando?

[Bandito]

No evidence. I saw Yao in his prime btw.
No evidence. NEXT

[Rocketswin2013]

As we said, Yao s numbers were lower because of more fronting and double teaming.

And Dwight s stats were inflated because of the system. Why didnt he put the same numbers after he left Orlando?
A torn Labrum? Back surgery? And Dwight WAS the system you buffoon.

[livinglegend]

A torn Labrum? Back surgery? And Dwight WAS the system you buffoon.

it s been 2 years since that surgery, it isnt an excuse anymore. He is healthy this year and he is not putting the same numbers.
Dwight was part of the system. 4 three pointers around him was also part the of the system.

[Rocketswin2013]

Pretty sure we are getting trolled, but what were you doing during the. Portland playoff series? The only way portland could stop Yao was by fronting him the entire game, and pretty much the entire series too. Utah did it as well with Okur.

Also, Yao had more post moves and offensive skill sets in his little finger than Dwight ever has (even current Dwight's postups are nerve-wracking to watch). Dwight got by ppl with sheer athleticism and hops, Yao was the completely opposite.

Ok who gives a ****? LeBron uses brute force and athleticism to get better stats than Kobe. Kobe used skill. Does it matter? Point is the result and production matters not how they got it. And Dwight was a better player than Yao.

[Railgun]

As we said, Yao s numbers were lower because of more fronting and double teaming.

And Dwight s stats were inflated because of the system. Why didnt he put the same numbers after he left Orlando?
Back surgery. Dwight isn't the same Dwight we have seen consistently so far. The biggest problem for him now is consistency and turnovers. Sadly, the league has completely taken out aggression in the post. If you try to overpower your man it's an automatic foul.

[livinglegend]

Back surgery. Dwight isn't the same Dwight we have seen consistently so far. The biggest problem for him now is consistency and turnovers. Sadly, the league has completely taken out aggression in the post. If you try to overpower your man it's an automatic foul.

Are you going to use that excuse of the rest of his life?
It was the system.
Now he is healthy and he cant put up the same numbers.

[Bandito]

Are you going to use that excuse of the rest of his life?
It was the system.
Now he is healthy and he cant put up the same numbers.
because of:


Da system:applause:

[livinglegend]

How do those shooters get open without Dwight grabbing 6 offensive boards and drawing double teams? Dunce. Look at all those players Dwight played with in Orlando. Where are they now? He made them.

Nelson is still playing.
Two of them were using PEDs and now they are not, so they are irrelevant.

You can also say the shooters made Howard because since those times, Howard hasnt been the same.

[Railgun]

Are you going to use that excuse of the rest of his life?
It was the system.
Now he is healthy and he cant put up the same numbers.
Yeah you're going on the ignore list. ****ing moron.

[livinglegend]

Yeah you're going on the ignore list. ****ing moron.
as if I cared. :oldlol: :oldlol:
I dont give a shit.

[zoom17]

Yao dominates Howard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFppQfs75Ro

[deja vu]

Yao is one of my favorite players ever. But I don't think he's top 5 all time even if he stayed healthy most of his career. He's one of the most skilled big men of all time especially on offense. I think what hurts his case is that he was just an above average rebounder for his size. His defense was very good but not elite. He would have been a top 10 center but Shaq, Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem, Russell, Moses, Robinson, Ewing were better.

[Bandito]

Yao is one of my favorite players ever. But I don't think he's top 5 all time even if he stayed healthy most of his career. He's one of the most skilled big men of all time especially on offense. I think what hurts his case is that he was just an above average rebounder for his size. His defense was very good but not elite. He would have been a top 10 center but Shaq, Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem, Russell, Moses, Robinson, Ewing were better.
That's 8 center you put above him, who are your other two?

[brantonli]

Who cares? 2 points are 2 points regardless of how you score them.
No one has debated why if Yao was so much better offensively why he only scored two points more on 8% less and 4 more attempts. No one.

Howard also shot 3 more FT per game, which effectively takes 1.5 attempts away, so you are looking at Yao taking (on average) an extra 2.2 shots per game, for 2 more points per game, which would be just below his average. team pace shouldn't be a factor, as both the 11'Magic and 07'Rockets played at fairly average page (91.2 and 90.7 respectively).

[Railgun]

Howard also shot 3 more FT per game, which effectively takes 1.5 attempts away, so you are looking at Yao taking (on average) an extra 2.2 shots per game, for 2 more points per game, which would be just below his average. team pace shouldn't be a factor, as both the 11'Magic and 07'Rockets played at fairly average page (91.2 and 90.7 respectively).
Howard's stats are still superior then.

[Soundwave]

He's not as good as David Robinson, let alone the players above DRob.

[Boarder Patrol]

Bottom line is this:
Howard: 23 on 59%

Yao: (this is his highest scoring year. I didn't even use the one where he played more games, but averaged less.) 25 on 51% on 4 more attempts
No one has debated this yet. No one has anything to say. These are facts, and not bullshit I created in my head like you guys are doing right now.

It's just that Dwight, for all these numbers, was an offensive liability in the 4th quarter because he can't shoot free throws. Clutch stats: 36.8 P48 for Yao, 13.8 P48 for Dwight, along with being a FT liability. Sometimes it goes beyond the numbers (where Yao wins too).

Defensively, Dwight is a better help defender and Yao has an edge in man defense IMO.

And also, just something I noticed from both sides here, you can't win an argument by saying "this isn't an argument" or "this isn't a discussion" or "not even close". It's dumb.