The Spurs have reached 50 wins for the 15th straight season

[Purch]

17 straight, if you count the 37 wins in the 50 game lockout season

[Meticode]

I think the most impressive thing in that time span is they were able to produce what you want. Titles. And the produced 4 of them so far. If the Spurs in the Duncan era aren't considered a dynasty, they are the closest team ever to be considered such a thing.

[Draz]

That's just amazing..I love that team.

[Psileas]

I've wondered...how many wins would the Spurs average if every NBA team was smart enough to play at the same team level with them? This is the typical boring, unathletic, non-dunking team that lots of NBA fans, without today's hindsight, would make fun of and would claim they'd stand zero chance to do anything serious in this "modern" NBA, right?

[ABfor3]

I've wondered...how many wins would the Spurs average if every NBA team was smart enough to play at the same team level with them? This is the typical boring, unathletic, non-dunking team that lots of NBA fans, without today's hindsight, would make fun of and would claim they'd stand zero chance to do anything serious in this "modern" NBA, right?
A lot of people think they're boring but they're the best at orchestrating an offense, also their team defense is always on point. I feel more teams refuse to play like this because it lacks the flash and swagger that trends in this generation.
Congrats to Spurs fan tho, an amazing organization all around

[1987_Lakers]

Would have been 17 straight 50 win seasons if it wasn't for the lockout in '99.

The last time the Spurs had a losing record Michael Jordan was playing in Chicago, infact San Antonio has only had 1 losing season in the last 25 years, that is pretty damn insane.

[SCdac]

It's a team and franchise accomplishment , no doubt, but give some credit to Tim Duncan.

He's been the catalyst, the foundation, the motor... whatever you want to call it... His midrange jumper has been superb the last 3-4 seasons as his athleticism has declined and he's to this day the defensive anchor.

In Feb., Duncan averaged 19 ppg (.52 FG%) / 11 rpg / 3 apg / 2 bpg / .75 FT%

If I had to assign credit for the last 15-17 seasons of success it would be

1) Duncan
2) Pop & staff
3) Parker & Ginobili
4) Kawhi, Splitter, & the bench
5) veteran presence (Robinson, Horry, Elie, Elliott, Finley, etc)

[MichaelCorleone]

Just wow.

[T_L_P]

It's a team and franchise accomplishment , no doubt, but give some credit to Tim Duncan.

He's been the catalyst, the foundation, the motor... whatever you want to call it... His midrange jumper has been superb the last 3-4 seasons as his athleticism has declined and he's to this day the defensive anchor.

In Feb., Duncan averaged 19 ppg (.52 FG%) / 11 rpg / 3 apg / 2 bpg / .75 FT%

If I had to assign credit for the last 15-17 seasons of success it would be

1) Duncan
2) Pop & staff
3) Parker & Ginobili
4) Kawhi, Splitter, & the bench
5) veteran presence (Robinson, Horry, Elie, Elliott, Finley, etc)


Great list. I personally would put Bowen above Kawhi, Splitter, & the bench and below Parker & Ginobili. :cheers:

[SCdac]

Great list. I personally would put Bowen above Kawhi, Splitter, & the bench and below Parker & Ginobili. :cheers:

Good point. He completely slipped my mind :hammerhead:

I'm a huge Bowen fan.

Played 500 consecutive games, which is a feat in it of itself.

Excellent defender and became a great 3 point shooter.

I remember his late game block on Chauncey Billups in the 2005 Finals like it was yesterday... He could guard PG's, SG's, SF's, and some PF's.

I'd put him at #3 with Parker & Ginobili

[mr.big35]

another 50 win season for the boring team

[Artillery]

It's a team and franchise accomplishment , no doubt, but give some credit to Tim Duncan.

He's been the catalyst, the foundation, the motor... whatever you want to call it... His midrange jumper has been superb the last 3-4 seasons as his athleticism has declined and he's to this day the defensive anchor.

In Feb., Duncan averaged 19 ppg (.52 FG%) / 11 rpg / 3 apg / 2 bpg / .75 FT%

If I had to assign credit for the last 15-17 seasons of success it would be

1) Duncan
2) Pop & staff
3) Parker & Ginobili
4) Kawhi, Splitter, & the bench
5) veteran presence (Robinson, Horry, Elie, Elliott, Finley, etc)

I would assign credit like this:

Regular Season:
1a) Duncan
1b) Pop & staff
2) Parker
3) Manu
4) Role Players - Bowen, Horry, Barry, etc

Playoff success:
1) Duncan
2) Manu
3) Role Players - Bowen, Horry, Barry, etc
4) Pop & staff
5) Parker

[moe94]

How is Tony Parker bad in the playoffs again?^

[Purch]

How is Tony Parker bad in the playoffs again?^
It's not that he's bad, he just has had some disappointing series, since the team became rendered around him, particularly late in the playoffs

[LeGOAT]

Unreal

[ImKobe]

yet they never repeated or even went to 2 straight Finals while Kobe went to 3 in a row twice & won b2b as the man. hmm.

[T_L_P]

yet they never repeated or even went to 2 straight Finals while Kobe went to 3 in a row twice & won b2b as the man. hmm.

Well, the Spurs are a small market team that does not attract free agents and has had to rely on aging vets and near D-Leaguers.

The Lakers had Shaq, Kobe and Pau and it has only lead to one more title than the Duncan-lead Spurs. :oldlol:

Also, what does repeating have to do with anything? A title is a title. 5 titles in a row then 5 years of irrelevancy is hardly better than winning 5 in ten years.

[SCdac]

yeah if only the Spurs could swindle Pau Gasol from the Grizz, go over the salary cap every season, or team Duncan with Shaquille freaking Oneal :rolleyes:

[SCdac]

The Lakers had Shaq, Kobe and Pau and it has only lead to one more title than the Duncan-lead Spurs. :oldlol:

No kidding....No respect from the Kobe stans, yet you'd think they'd appreciate competition.

What happened to the Lakers in 2005-2007? :confusedshrug:

[DuMa]

only 3 things are certain every year. death, taxes and spurs winning 50 games

[Artillery]

How is Tony Parker bad in the playoffs again?^

Compare his regular season(RS) and post-season(PS) stats. His numbers fall across the board.

PER RS: 19.1
PER PS: 17.4

WS/48 RS: .151
WS/48 PS: .091

TS% RS: .551
TS% PS: .516

He was by far the least important member of the Spurs trio during the 2000s. High usage, low efficiency chucker with mediocre court vision. Did a poor job running the offense back then. Always under-performed in the playoffs.

In 2003 he was horrid. Couldn't run the offense properly at all(96 ORtg in the playoffs). It got to the point that Pop had to replace him in 4th quarters with Speedy Claxton. Really, really bad efficiency too(.468 TS% in the playoffs).

Than there's his awful performance as a second option in 2004. He shot 7-23 in the pivotal game five of the conference semis against LA. Most of his shots should have been going to Duncan or Manu that series.

In 2005, TD and Manu carried the team to the title. Parker was a glorified role player. TS% of .490 throughout the playoffs that year. Horry, Barry, and Bowen were all more important than him.

In 2006, Duncan and Ginobili both had strong playoff performances against the Mavs in a close seven game series. TD averaged 32 pts/12 rebs on .61 TS% against Dallas. Ginobili averaged 21 ppg on .64 TS%. Unfortunately, the albatross known as Tony Parker dragged the team down with yet ANOTHER horribly inefficient series. Averaged 20 ppg on an Iverson-esque .47 TS%. Parker's crappy shot selection resulted in numerous wasted possessions.

Parker won Finals MVP in 2007 but it was a hollow award seeing as TD and Manu were both more important than him throughout that post-season run. It's a joke that people claim Parker led them to a title that year. Look at their cumulative stats for the entire 2007 playoffs:

27.4 PER - Duncan
21.9 PER - Ginobili
18.7 PER - Parker

Parker took advantage of the biggest mismatch in Finals history with the Cavs using Boobie Gibson to defend him. Meanwhile, Duncan had to deal with Varejao/Ilgauskas and Ginobili had Lebron guarding him for large portions. Makes sense that Parker had such a big series when Cleveland was throwing all their defensive attention towards other players on the Spurs. Mike Brown used to coach under Pop - He knew from personal experience that Parker would choke if he became the primary scoring option(see 2004 playoffs against the Lakers). Unfortunately for Brown, Parker actually had the series of his life and hit most of his jumpers for a change.

To his credit, he's actually improved in recent years. The last two seasons he's been a pretty damn good PG. Had an argument for best PG in the NBA in 2012 and 2013. I was actually impressed with him for the first time in his career. It almost seemed like TP turned a corner and stopped being a crappy scoring guard and learned to be a playmaker. Then the 2013 Finals happened. Averaged a mediocre 15 ppg on 47% TS. Shot a putrid 6-23 in the pivotal game six. 3-12 in game seven. Typical Parker rearing his ugly head again to chuck the Spurs out of another title.

[Purch]

yet they never repeated or even went to 2 straight Finals while Kobe went to 3 in a row twice & won b2b as the man. hmm.
So?

[DMAVS41]

yeah if only the Spurs could swindle Pau Gasol from the Grizz, go over the salary cap every season, or team Duncan with Shaquille freaking Oneal :rolleyes:

This.

My god...so sick of hearing this shit. If you give Tim Duncan the kind of star power the Lakers Kobe/Shaq had...he might have won 8 titles.

Seriously...it is so much harder to win without another legit superstar and win on strategy and depth. The Spurs teams are great for the regular season, but you don't always win off depth in the playoffs. Depth matters less because the stars play more...and stars are more valuable.

It's quite the achievement for them to have won 4 titles to begin with...

[DMAVS41]

Compare his regular season(RS) and post-season(PS) stats. His numbers fall across the board.

PER RS: 19.1
PER PS: 17.4

WS/48 RS: .151
WS/48 PS: .091

TS% RS: .551
TS% PS: .516

He was by far the least important member of the Spurs trio during the 2000s. High usage, low efficiency chucker with mediocre court vision. Did a poor job running the offense back then. Always under-performed in the playoffs.

In 2003 he was horrid. Couldn't run the offense properly at all(96 ORtg in the playoffs). It got to the point that Pop had to replace him in 4th quarters with Speedy Claxton. Really, really bad efficiency too(.468 TS% in the playoffs).

Than there's his awful performance as a second option in 2004. He shot 7-23 in the pivotal game five of the conference semis against LA. Most of his shots should have been going to Duncan or Manu that series.

In 2005, TD and Manu carried the team to the title. Parker was a glorified role player. TS% of .490 throughout the playoffs that year. Horry, Barry, and Bowen were all more important than him.

In 2006, Duncan and Ginobili both had strong playoff performances against the Mavs in a close seven game series. TD averaged 32 pts/12 rebs on .61 TS% against Dallas. Ginobili averaged 21 ppg on .64 TS%. Unfortunately, the albatross known as Tony Parker dragged the team down with yet ANOTHER horribly inefficient series. Averaged 20 ppg on an Iverson-esque .47 TS%. Parker's crappy shot selection resulted in numerous wasted possessions.

Parker won Finals MVP in 2007 but it was a hollow award seeing as TD and Manu were both more important than him throughout that post-season run. It's a joke that people claim Parker led them to a title that year. Look at their cumulative stats for the entire 2007 playoffs:

27.4 PER - Duncan
21.9 PER - Ginobili
18.7 PER - Parker

Parker took advantage of the biggest mismatch in Finals history with the Cavs using Boobie Gibson to defend him. Meanwhile, Duncan had to deal with Varejao/Ilgauskas and Ginobili had Lebron guarding him for large portions. Makes sense that Parker had such a big series when Cleveland was throwing all their defensive attention towards other players on the Spurs. Mike Brown used to coach under Pop - He knew from personal experience that Parker would choke if he became the primary scoring option(see 2004 playoffs against the Lakers). Unfortunately for Brown, Parker actually had the series of his life and hit most of his jumpers for a change.

To his credit, he's actually improved in recent years. The last two seasons he's been a pretty damn good PG. Had an argument for best PG in the NBA in 2012 and 2013. I was actually impressed with him for the first time in his career. It almost seemed like TP turned a corner and stopped being a crappy scoring guard and learned to be a playmaker. Then the 2013 Finals happened. Averaged a mediocre 15 ppg on 47% TS. Shot a putrid 6-23 in the pivotal game six. 3-12 in game seven. Typical Parker rearing his ugly head again to chuck the Spurs out of another title.

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[SCdac]

I agree with alot of what Artillery said, in that Parker was not always the 2nd or 3rd best player for the Spurs, particularly from 2002-2005. Parker had weak series in the 03 and 05 Finals, but he always showed flashes of stardom in other series or in the RS.

The seasons before that, Spurs still managed to win 50 games without Manu and Parker. In 2006, after working with Chip Engelland and improving his finishing-around-the-basket, Parker started to break out as a bonafide All Star (a season after Ginobili broke out as an AS and averaged 21 ppg in the Spurs 3rd ever championship run).

Having said that, this is a thread about regular season consistency and competitiveness, and Parker has been a warrior for the Spurs. No doubt about it. He's had months where he's scraped the bottom of the MVP lists, whether folks agree or not, and really took over.

Averages roughly 74 games played a season (not counting lockout), which is good, and he's definitely going to have his jersey retired in SA. His 2007 Finals was great and he was knocking down some 3's when he pretty much hadn't been shooting them all season (no doubt it was a mismatch for Cleveland).

Credit to Parker for becoming a starting PG right off the bat, at 19 years old. This really pissed off Avery Johnson, who believed himself to be the ideal starter for the Spurs at the time. And credit to Parker for improving his game, from shooting to playmaking and decision making.

[the wise man]

And they will still choke despite the refs being in their side

:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:


The only reason they went to seven games against Lesexy and crew is because of the refs

[DMAVS41]

I agree with alot of what Artillery said, in that Parker was not always the 2nd or 3rd best player for the Spurs, particularly from 2002-2005. Parker had weak series in the 03 and 05 Finals, but he always showed flashes of stardom in other series or in the RS.

The seasons before that, Spurs still managed to win 50 games without Manu and Parker. In 2006, after working with Chip Engelland and improving his finishing-around-the-basket, Parker started to break out as a bonafide All Star (a season after Ginobili broke out as an AS and averaged 21 ppg in the Spurs 3rd ever championship run).

Having said that, this is a thread about regular season consistency and competitiveness, and Parker has been a warrior for the Spurs. No doubt about it. He's had months where he's scraped the bottom of the MVP lists, whether folks agree or not, and really took over.

Averages roughly 74 games played a season (not counting lockout), which is good, and he's definitely going to have his jersey retired in SA. His 2007 Finals was great and he was knocking down some 3's when he pretty much hadn't been shooting them all season (no doubt it was a mismatch for Cleveland).

Credit to Parker for becoming a starting PG right off the bat, at 19 years old. This really pissed off Avery Johnson, who believed himself to be the ideal starter for the Spurs at the time. And credit to Parker for improving his game, from shooting to playmaking and decision making.


Absolutely, but the haters are taking those regular seasons and implying the Spurs have somehow choked or not lived up to expectations in the playoffs.

And one of those reasons is that Parker drops considerably on his overall efficiency from the regular season to the playoffs.

But I totally agree with you and it's not like Parker has been a negative or something...even in the playoffs he's still been great overall.

The main point I'd make about this regular season stuff vs playoffs...is that the depth and strategy of the Spurs works against weaker teams in the regular season much better than it does against elite teams in the playoffs.

As it should of course. Depth just doesn't matter nearly as much in the playoffs as it does during the regular season grind.

[T_L_P]

I agree with you entirely, Artillery.

A lot of the more casual fans / the fans that don't watch San Antonio often think '03-'07 Parker was the same player he is today, which is completely false.

I was never blown away by Parker (in the post-season) until the '07 Finals, and even then a lot of Parker's play was decided by his God send of a mathcup.

I could only imagine the damage '03 Duncan, '05 Manu and '08 or '13 Parker would have done to this league.

[T_L_P]

Forget that.

List of players who would have won titles in Duncan's place on the Spurs:

Shaq
Prime Dwight
Charles Barkley
Karl Malone
Olajuwon
Kareem
McHale
Garnett
Pettit
Prime Chris Bosh
Dirk( Probably not, but not impossible)
That's alot of players. Now switch the roles and tell me if Duncan would have won with any of these guys supporting casts. Duncan is so overrated because he was lucky to be drafted and put in literally a perfect position for a big-man his entire career.

:oldlol: at some of those names.

Tell me which ones are winning with Duncan's '03 cast, please.

[T_L_P]

Literally everyone I listed. That Spurs team was deep and had alot of good players and specifically defenders.

3.5% of the GM's predicted the Spurs would win that title that year.

ESPN wrote that no other superstar has dragged such an undermanned team to the title.

Literally, the only one who could have won with that squad was Hakeem. Maybe, maybe Garnett.

The other guys couldn't provide the defense needed to win. McHale only won 3 titles with some of the most stacked teams in league history. :oldlol:

Karl Malone was Playoff choker of epic proportions.

And if they could all do it, why didn't they? Don't act like most of those guys didn't have better casts than Duncan's at least once in their career.

Duncan's second best player on that squad was Tony Parker, who averaged 14 PPG on 40% shooting in the postseason.

[ABfor3]

Literally everyone I listed. That Spurs team was deep and had alot of good players and specifically defenders.
You really think Chris Bosh would have the same success if he took Tim Duncan's place?

[T_L_P]

Lol no man. They'd probably win like 52-54 games though.

Ha, most of the players you listed wouldn't win as many titles.

And your claim that they would all win with sophomore Tony Parker, rookie Manu and David Robinson's carcass is a joke. You clearly didn't watch them/Tim play in his prime.

[DMAVS41]

Forget that.

List of players who would have won titles in Duncan's place on the Spurs:

Shaq
Prime Dwight
Charles Barkley
Karl Malone
Olajuwon
Kareem
McHale
Garnett
Pettit
Prime Chris Bosh
Dirk( Probably not, but not impossible)
That's alot of players. Now switch the roles and tell me if Duncan would have won with any of these guys supporting casts. Duncan is so overrated because he was lucky to be drafted and put in literally a perfect position for a big-man his entire career.

This might be the worst post I've ever seen.

So Duncan isn't winning with Shaq's supporting casts?

Somehow Bosh is winning, but Dirk isn't? What???? :facepalm

[Anaximandro1]

Forget that.

List of players who would have won titles in Duncan's place on the Spurs:
Howard? Bosh?

:oldlol:


Duncan destroys Larry Bird/Garnett/Malone statistically.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-xjjuG-nKXwc/UydaFjlgA8I/AAAAAAAACq4/ujhzi6YSYWc/s1600/12.jpg



Duncan vs Shaq? It's close, but I like Duncan's team first attitude.


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ZBuBWlxw26o/UydaIDRaMJI/AAAAAAAACrA/_UxpBHt9wSc/s1600/13.jpg

[TheMarkMadsen]

Thanks to Pop's system where players are interchangeable

in 2011 when Duncan was nothing more than a role player, the Spurs won 61 games..

in 2012 when Duncan was nothing more than a role player the Spurs won 50 games in a 66 games season..


61 wins in 2011 was the 2nd most games won by the Spurs in the regular season .. and it was done with Duncan as a role player averaging 13 & 8

[T_L_P]

Thanks to Pop's system where players are interchangeable

in 2011 when Duncan was nothing more than a role player, the Spurs won 61 games..

in 2012 when Duncan was nothing more than a role player the Spurs won 50 games in a 66 games season..


61 wins in 2011 was the 2nd most games won by the Spurs in the regular season .. and it was done with Duncan as a role player averaging 13 & 8

13.5/9/3 and anchoring an entire defense, whilst playing just 28 minutes, is not being a role player. Have you ever heard of resting for the big games?

It's funny, because Duncan's Playoff numbers is 2012 were 17.5/9.5/3/1/2, again in just 33 minutes. Where's the role player in that?

[TheMarkMadsen]

13.5/9/3 and anchoring an entire defense, whilst playing just 28 minutes, is not being a role player. Have you ever heard of resting for the big games?

It's funny, because Duncan's Playoff numbers is 2012 were 17.5/9.5/3/1/2, again in just 33 minutes. Where's the role player in that?


the role player in that would be shooting 48% TS as a 7 footer in the WCF while being your teams 3rd leading scorer in the WCF, and having his team go up 2-0 in the WCF just to get back door swept in the WCF


Avoiding 2011 when Duncan was clearly a role player and the team still won 61 games?

[T_L_P]

the role player in that would be shooting 48% TS as a 7 footer in the WCF while being your teams 3rd leading scorer in the WCF, and having his team go up 2-0 in the WCF just to get back door swept in the WCF


Avoiding 2011 when Duncan was clearly a role player and the team still won 61 games?

Ah, pointing to one series. That really paints an entire picture :cheers:

I think you and I have entirely different definitions of the word role player. What you're basically saying is guys like Brooz Lopez and Miami Chris Bosh are role players, when nobody else with any sense would agree with you.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Ah, pointing to one series. That really paints an entire picture :cheers:

I think you and I have entirely different definitions of the word role player. What you're basically saying is guys like Brooz Lopez and Miami Chris Bosh are role players, when nobody else with any sense would agree with you.


Ah, pointing to one series. That really paints an entire picture :cheers:

considering it's the series in which they were ELIMINATED while Duncan played well under his standards, yeah it does paint most of the picture



I think you and I have entirely different definitions of the word role player. What you're basically saying is guys like Brooz Lopez and Miami Chris Bosh are role players, when nobody else with any sense would agree with you.

WHAT? :roll:

Duncan was a role player in 2011 averaging 13 & 9. Brook Lopez hasn't averaged less than 19ppg since 2009

Bosh averaged 18 & 8 in 2012, and has been a 17 & 7-8 player the last 2 years.

[T_L_P]

considering it's the series in which they were ELIMINATED while Duncan played well under his standards, yeah it does paint most of the picture




WHAT? :roll:

Duncan was a role player in 2011 averaging 13 & 9. Brook Lopez hasn't averaged less than 19ppg since 2009

Bosh averaged 18 & 8 in 2012, and has been a 17 & 7-8 player the last 2 years.

Ah, so your one of those: points mean everything

Let's look into this:

Duncan's '11 and '12 stats (you called him a role player both seasons so I'll use his averages from both seasons):

14.3 PPG / 8.9 RPG / 2.5 APG / 0.7 SPG / 1.7 BPG / 28.3 MPG

Brook Lopez '13 stats:

19.4 PPG / 6.9 RPG / 0.9 APG / 0.4 SPG / 2.1 BPG / 30.4 MPG

Chris Bosh Miami stats ('11-'14):

17.6 RPG / 7.5 RPG / 1.5 APG / 0.9 SPG / 0.9 BPG / 34.2 MPG

...and Duncan is the best defender of those three.

So again, if Duncan was a role player in '11 and '12, so was Lopez in '13, Bosh since joining Miami, and 98% of the entire league.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Ah, so your one of those: points mean everything

Let's look into this:

Duncan's '11 and '12 stats (you called him a role player both seasons so I'll use his averages from both seasons):

14.3 PPG / 8.9 RPG / 2.5 APG / 0.7 SPG / 1.7 BPG / 28.3 MPG

Brook Lopez '13 stats:

19.4 PPG / 6.9 RPG / 0.9 APG / 0.4 SPG / 2.1 BPG / 30.4 MPG

Chris Bosh Miami stats ('11-'14):

17.6 RPG / 7.5 RPG / 1.5 APG / 0.9 SPG / 0.9 BPG / 34.2 MPG

...and Duncan is the best defender of those three.

So again, if Duncan was a role player in '11 and '12, so was Lopez in '13, Bosh since joining Miami, and 98% of the entire league.

Role player Duncan 11-12

14.3 PPG / 8.9 RPG / 2.5 APG / 0.7 SPG / 1.7 BPG / 49.5 FG% 70% FT/ 28.3 MPG


Current Ibaka

15.2 ppg/ 8.9 rpg / 1.0 apg/ .6 spg/ 2.6 bpg/ 54 FG% / 78% FT/ 33mpg

so Duncan isn't even producing as much as a 3rd option Ibaka, Ibaka isn't an all star, but will be an ALL NBA defender (which Duncan wasn't in 11-12) and nobody in their right mind would call OKC "Ibaka's team" just like how in 2011-12 the Spurs were not "Duncans team" in terms of who produced the most and their impact on winning games

Duncan wasn't even playing 30 mpg and the Spurs were still winning 60 games and wrapping up 1st seeds.

[T_L_P]

Role player Duncan 11-12

14.3 PPG / 8.9 RPG / 2.5 APG / 0.7 SPG / 1.7 BPG / 49.5 FG% 70% FT/ 28.3 MPG


Current Ibaka

15.2 ppg/ 8.9 rpg / 1.0 apg/ .6 spg/ 2.6 bpg/ 54 FG% / 78% FT/ 33mpg

so Duncan isn't even producing as much as a 3rd option Ibaka, Ibaka isn't an all star, but will be an ALL NBA defender (which Duncan wasn't in 11-12) and nobody in their right mind would call OKC "Ibaka's team" just like how in 2011-12 the Spurs were not "Duncans team" in terms of who produced the most and their impact on winning games

Duncan wasn't even playing 30 mpg and the Spurs were still winning 60 games and wrapping up 1st seeds.

But it Ibaka a role player? That's what we're talking about. No whether it's Duncan's team or Parker's team.

14/9/3 with elite defense is not a role player. You'd probably know that if you watched Duncan play. In fact, those are Duncan's numbers this season (give or take).

Is Duncan a role player right now?

[smoovegittar]

Top to bottom, just awesome. For all their winning, they still don't get the respect and credit due.

[DMAVS41]

Role player Duncan 11-12

14.3 PPG / 8.9 RPG / 2.5 APG / 0.7 SPG / 1.7 BPG / 49.5 FG% 70% FT/ 28.3 MPG


Current Ibaka

15.2 ppg/ 8.9 rpg / 1.0 apg/ .6 spg/ 2.6 bpg/ 54 FG% / 78% FT/ 33mpg

so Duncan isn't even producing as much as a 3rd option Ibaka, Ibaka isn't an all star, but will be an ALL NBA defender (which Duncan wasn't in 11-12) and nobody in their right mind would call OKC "Ibaka's team" just like how in 2011-12 the Spurs were not "Duncans team" in terms of who produced the most and their impact on winning games

Duncan wasn't even playing 30 mpg and the Spurs were still winning 60 games and wrapping up 1st seeds.

You are making the common mistake of confusing regular season help and playoff help.

In the regular season, I quality coach and system and chemistry with quality depth and get you a lot of wins...especially against the so many weak teams today.

So if you are just talking about Duncan's regular season help. I totally agree...he's had the best and most consistent regular season help of the era...his teams have a positive differential without him...which is amazing.

For comparison sake...Kobe, Dirk, KG, Lebron, and Wade all see their teams get outscored without them on the floor for their careers...and in the cases of Dirk, KG, and Lebron...it's significant.

However, where the mistake is made (not saying you are doing this...but if you are) is when you start projecting playoff success of these regular seasons. Because that depth and system stuff simply matters much less in the playoffs. Stars play more minutes per game...so those 2nd units spend less time on the court...and having multiple star players really matters the most.

So even though Kobe has had less help on/off for his career in the regular season, he's clearly had more help in terms of winning titles by playing with Shaq and other loaded rosters for 4 years...etc.

I see that mistake made often on here and I really don't know why. I guess it's because people find it simple to just evaluate how good teams are solely on win/loss records...but those records themselves can get inflated in terms of likelihood to repeat that success in the playoffs. The 07 mavs are a good example of this...a team that won 67 games on depth and effort...or the Lebron led Cavs in 09 and 10...same thing.