Magic Johnson's only advantage over Larry Bird is longevity

[PieceOfFelt]

and it's a very little advantage. Johnson has two more titles but that means little considering it's a team game, he played in a weaker western conference at the time and he had even more talent around him than Bird. Larry Bird was quite simply a better basketball player and through the first 7 years of their careers it was nearly unanimous. Bird should be remembered as the greater individual player, quite easily.

[navy]

Bird's teams were stacked.

[iamgine]

Did Magic really had more talent though.

Mchale, Parish and DJ were all great players. Kareem of course were better than all of them but was Kareem and Worthy enough to offset that trio?

[Milbuck]

Bird's teams were stacked.
So stacked that they had a 32 game turnaround from the season before Bird to Bird's rookie season. Without McHale and Parish. Or DJ. Or Ainge.

[Rose'sACL]

i think bird was the better player but it is pretty close.

So stacked that they had a 32 game turnaround from the season before Bird to Bird's rookie season. Without McHale and Parish. Or DJ. Or Ainge.
This. people forget this.

[navy]

So stacked that they had a 32 game turnaround from the season before Bird to Bird's rookie season. Without McHale and Parish. Or DJ. Or Ainge.
Probably tanking. :hammerhead:

[BlackVVaves]

Bird played on arguably the greatest roster of all time in 86, but Magic unequivocally had more talent around him?

Tell us more.

[NumberSix]

Imagine what today's NBA would look like if stacked teams could somehow manage to get the top draft picks.

[BlackVVaves]

So stacked that they had a 32 game turnaround from the season before Bird to Bird's rookie season. Without McHale and Parish. Or DJ. Or Ainge.

Because that negates the other several versions of the Celtics roster Bird played on :oldlol:

It's arguable who was the better individual talent. But ultimately, Magic achieved more, and was as equally pivotal to his team's 8 finals appearances as Bird was to his team's continued success.

He has 3 MVPs, 3 FMVPs. 5 championships.

[fpliii]

Probably tanking. :hammerhead:
They'd drafted Bird the season before, though. No benefit to tanking.

[navy]

They'd drafted Bird the season before, though. No benefit to tanking.
Another good player?

[Milbuck]

Because that negates the other several versions of the Celtics roster Bird played on :oldlol:

It's arguable who was the better individual talent. But ultimately, Magic achieved more, and was as equally pivotal to his team's 8 finals appearances as Bird was to his team's continued success.

He has 3 MVPs, 3 FMVPs. 5 championships.
I never said it did. I'm just pointing out Bird's obvious, enormous impact on the game and that Celtics team.

[Big#50]

Magic isn't even top ten. Lamar Odom would dominate the early 80's. Serious. We need to base rankings due to eras. The NBA before 98 was ****ing laughable.

[fpliii]

Another good player?
Nah, I believe in February they traded for McAdoo, so they didn't have a first round pick that year (79).

[BlackVVaves]

I never said it did. I'm just pointing out Bird's obvious, enormous impact on the game and that Celtics team.

Well yes, without a doubt. Only a half-wit would argue that.

He did win ROY for a reason you know. His impact was profound.

[BlackVVaves]

Magic isn't even top ten. Lamar Odom would dominate the early 80's. Serious. We need to base rankings due to eras. The NBA before 98 was ****ing laughable.

Go tell it on the mountains. Over the hills. And everywhere.

[navy]

Nah, I believe in February they traded for McAdoo, so they didn't have a first round pick that year (79).
Ill take your word for it.

[Big#50]

Go tell it on the mountains. Over the hills. And everywhere.
Whatever. Magic didn't even have a jump shot. Saw him in about 200 games. The NBA is the only sport where people don't admit to eras being different.

[Micku]

Did Magic really had more talent though.

Mchale, Parish and DJ were all great players. Kareem of course were better than all of them but was Kareem and Worthy enough to offset that trio?

Earlier in their career yeah.

Kareem was considered MVP in Magic's rookie season, the best C and best player in the league. That was more than Bird got in his rookie season. And they still had Jamaal Wilkes and Norm Nixon.

The Lakers had the best talent all the way until the 1984-85 season imo when Mchale got better, Ainge and Wedman.

[Big#50]

Earlier in their career yeah.

Kareem was considered MVP in Magic's rookie season, the best C and best player in the league. That was more than Bird got in his rookie season. And they still had Jamaal Wilkes and Norm Nixon.

The Lakers had the best talent all the way until the 1984-85 season imo when Mchale got better, Ainge and Wedman.
The Lakers were the NBA's darling and they still got whooped 4 times in the finals during Magic's era. Magic is nothing more than Beasley with better attitude and work ethic.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

I was looking thru google news for Bird VS Magic a while ago and up until 87/88 it was literally NO QUESTION that Bird was better. Every article, newspaper i could find said the same things EVEN LA times. Bird was getting GOAT talks, Red (who coached Russell and against Wilt) said Bird might be greatest ever.

Then Birds back got fcked and Magic closed the gap. Fact is when they were both healthy and in prime Bird was EASILY the better player.

Much better shooter
better scorer
much better defender
better rebounder
better offball
not far away passing/playmaking

Magic never reached the level Larry was at in 84 or 86 and 88 Bird is the best offensive season in NBA history.

[Micku]

The Lakers were the NBA's darling and they still got whooped 4 times in the finals during Magic's era. Magic is nothing more than Beasley with better attitude and work ethic.

They dominated the 80s with Magic and Kareem. They only missed the Finals twice in that 10 year span. Won five times. Magic put up some great stats, and beat the Celtics 2/3 times. It was the best era of the Lakers for success.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

And the 80s East WAS WAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY better than 80s West. The gap was the same as 2000s East and 2000s West

[bdreason]

I think this is a commonly excepted opinion. Many believe Bird had a higher peak, but Magic had a longer, and more successful prime.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Said it before, when they were both (considerably) healthy, Bird was (considered) the best player for the most part, he had a better overall peak than Magic, played in a better conference, faced better competition at SF and Magic had better teammates on average (not that Bird never had it better, for example in 1986).
Magic has a bit more longevity, 2 more titles and his fame grew bigger than Bird's, as a blackman in a blackmen's sport, always in the spotlight opposite from Bird.



Whatever. Magic didn't even have a jump shot. Saw him in about 200 games. The NBA is the only sport where people don't admit to eras being different.


On the regular, he wouldn't just kill you from the outside, nor shooting off the dribble, and so on, but by his 4th year you really couldn't leave him open from mid or else he'd bury you. In the 1984 Finals, Celtics gave him the jumper, to prevent his passing, driving and post-game, while double teaming Kareem, and he wound up shooting 55% from mid-range, for example. He's a career 85% FT shooter, peaking at 91%, he was many times amongst the best in TS%, he always improved his 3pt shooting despite not coming up with the line and never needing it all that much, and he made plenty of clutch 3's too.
Now, imagine something like prime Rondo on offense, make him 6'8 with one of the best post-games in the league, with a much better ability to knock down mid-range jumpers, shooting 85% or more from the ft line...
No you didn't see him, stop lying, or else you'd know this.
Yea you can make a great argument for this era being weaker :rolleyes:


Magic isn't even top ten. Lamar Odom would dominate the early 80's. Serious. We need to base rankings due to eras. The NBA before 98 was ****ing laughable.


The Lakers were the NBA's darling and they still got whooped 4 times in the finals during Magic's era. Magic is nothing more than Beasley with better attitude and work ethic.

:biggums:
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Seriously, someone should ban this ****ing tool.

[BoutPractice]

Always a difficult comparison. One thing I've noticed is that Magic tends to be underrated as a scorer (he proved he could easily create his own shot, and like others have said, leaving peak Magic him open from midrange was more a way to "pick your poison" than to truly contain him), whereas Bird is very underrated as an all-around player (but slightly overrated as a scorer). They're both incredibly well rounded, and their "standout" skills are really the same: passing, court vision and basketball IQ. If there's any meaningful difference, it's not passing VS scoring but on ball VS off ball.

[Champ]

Some good posts in this thread. Nice to see a good dialogue :cheers:

Lots of parity between both teams, with neither holding a clear talent advantage up until Bird's injury in '89. I don't agree with those who claim Magic was surrounded by better talent. Yes, he had Kareem, but Bird's teams were often as good or better and as deep or deeper.

I think you could argue, to some degree, that Bird actually had the better team around him during several seasons in the '80s, but failed to come away with rings either due to injuries, unfavorable playoff matchups leading up to the Finals, or both. In fact, the Celtics had the better regular season record from 79' through '88 while playing in the tougher conference.

This highlights at least one clear advantage Magic had over Bird that ultimately contributed to more career success - better post-season health for both himself and key teammates. This is not to take anything away from Magic, who, along with Worthy and Kareem, proved himself to be a superb post-season performer. It's just unfortunate we didn't see more collisions between these two great rivals when both sides were healthly and in top-form.

Key injuries hurt the Celtics in at least two seasons where they were arguably better than the Lakers: '81-82 (Archibald) and '84-85 (Bird and Maxwell).

Injuries again hurt the Celtics in '87 (McHale, Parish, Walton). What NBA fan wouldn't have loved to see this series with both teams healthy and at full-strength. As with the early-80s rivalry with the Sixers, once again we saw how a brutally-physical rivalry (Celtics-Pistons) again indirectly aided the Lakers in both '87 and '88.

I think there's a tendency to underrate just how good some of those Celtics teams were and the talent surrounding Bird during most of the 80s. He did benefit from this, just as Magic fed of his own surrounding talent.

Rejuvenated by youth, the C's made one last run during their often-overlooked '90-91 campaign. Not saying that they could've beaten the Bulls, but had they stayed healthy, they certainly would've posed a greater challenge, having the ability to get past the Pistons in the ECSF.

[eliteballer]

Magic was 3 years younger than Bird and STILL outplayed PEAK Bird in 2 out of 3 finals, and his numbers in the 84 finals were better as well.

Magic's playoff and finals run his rookie year are arguably better than ANY Bird ever had and also included beating the defending champs in the WC and a super team in the finals.

He was more versatile by virtue of his ballhandling ability, he led the league in steals(Bird never did), and his rebounding from the PG SPOT was just as good as Birds.

Not to mention Bird benefited from white east coast media bias.

[Rodmantheman]

I personally think Bird was better but they were so evenly matched.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

MAgic>Bird:biggums: :biggums:
that nignog would probably be considered the GOAt if he didnt retire because of Aids:coleman:

[Champ]

Magic was 3 years younger than Bird and STILL outplayed PEAK Bird in 2 out of 3 finals, and his numbers in the 84 finals were better as well.

Magic's playoff and finals run his rookie year are arguably better than ANY Bird ever had and also included beating the defending champs in the WC and a super team in the finals.

He was more versatile by virtue of his ballhandling ability, he led the league in steals(Bird never did), and his rebounding from the PG SPOT was just as good as Birds.

Not to mention Bird benefited from white east coast media bias.

Hyperbole, arbitrary facts, and reverse discrimination (in that order) weaken your argument.

[Akrazotile]

If you have Bird higher than Magic THEN YOU'RE A RACISSTTTTTTTT


- Saracastic

[SHAQisGOAT]

Magic was 3 years younger than Bird and STILL outplayed PEAK Bird in 2 out of 3 finals, and his numbers in the 84 finals were better as well.

Magic's playoff and finals run his rookie year are arguably better than ANY Bird ever had and also included beating the defending champs in the WC and a super team in the finals.

He was more versatile by virtue of his ballhandling ability, he led the league in steals(Bird never did), and his rebounding from the PG SPOT was just as good as Birds.

Not to mention Bird benefited from white east coast media bias.


In 1984, Lakers clearly had a better team on paper, and they were playing better throughout the playoffs, while Bird's teammates were underperforming given their usual standards.. Just for you to see, Bird was leading the team in points, rebounds, assists, steals, FG% and FT%, and in the Finals it was more of the same as he led them past the mighty Lakers, who were throwing everything and the kitchen sink at him.

In 1985, Bird had an injured elbow and hand, and it still took incredible performances from Kareem to put away the Celtics. If Bird was healthy they probably would've won again.

If only picking an year, Bird's peak was in 1986 and Magic "didn't bother" to show up to the Finals, yea really outplayed him :rolleyes:

In 1987 the Celtics were falling apart while the Lakers had one of the GOAT teams and Magic was at his absolute best. Bird already had some "issues", plus he was 30 and playing the most minutes in his career, along with other starters, because the team had no bench. Lakers had a relatively easy road to the Finals given their talent, while the Celtics were going through some tough teams in some gruelsome series. McHale was playing on a broken foot, Parish and Ainge also playing injured, no bench, DJ was getting older, Bird had given too much.. Larry still had plenty of great moments, Magic was a beast yea.


Please stop reaching son. And don't forget who the best player was, and their clear-cut leader, in 1980 (plus more).. Yea, that's Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, the MVP, most likely DPOY too, 32/12/3/1/4 on .611 TS% in the Playoffs, the "true" FMVP. Bird didn't have the luxury of having a top5 player of all-time (at least) to lead his team from the get-go, plus with Wilkes, Nixon and Coop. Plus Bird played in a tougher conference and had more competition at SF.

Yea, so what you say to Bird being a better shooter/scorer, bit better post-game and rebounding, better defensive player, not far behind as a passer.. Oh, Bird never led the league in steals, Magic was the better defensive player then, that settles it :rolleyes:

Right, Bird was all hype, still to this day, while Magic is the opposite :rolleyes:

[eliteballer]

Hyperbole, arbitrary facts, and reverse discrimination (in that order) weaken your argument.

...and the weakness in your argument is you haven't addressed any of the actual points.



In 1984, Lakers clearly had a better team on paper, and they were playing better throughout the playoffs, while Bird's teammates were underperforming given their usual standards.. Just for you to see, Bird was leading the team in points, rebounds, assists, steals, FG% and FT%, and in the Finals it was more of the same as he led them past the mighty Lakers, who were throwing everything and the kitchen sink at him.

In 1985, Bird had an injured elbow and hand, and it still took incredible performances from Kareem to put away the Celtics. If Bird was healthy they probably would've won again.

If only picking an year, Bird's peak was in 1986 and Magic "didn't bother" to show up to the Finals, yea really outplayed him :rolleyes:

In 1987 the Celtics were falling apart while the Lakers had one of the GOAT teams and Magic was at his absolute best. Bird already had some "issues", plus he was 30 and playing the most minutes in his career, along with other starters, because the team had no bench. Lakers had a relatively easy road to the Finals given their talent, while the Celtics were going through some tough teams in some gruelsome series. McHale was playing on a broken foot, Parish and Ainge also playing injured, no bench, DJ was getting older, Bird had given too much.. Larry still had plenty of great moments, Magic was a beast yea.


Please stop reaching son. And don't forget who the best player was, and their clear-cut leader, in 1980 (plus more).. Yea, that's Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, the MVP, most likely DPOY too, 32/12/3/1/4 on .611 TS% in the Playoffs, the "true" FMVP. Bird didn't have the luxury of having a top5 player of all-time (at least) to lead his team from the get-go, plus with Wilkes, Nixon and Coop. Plus Bird played in a tougher conference and had more competition at SF.

Yea, so what you say to Bird being a better shooter/scorer, bit better post-game and rebounding, better defensive player, not far behind as a passer.. Oh, Bird never led the league in steals, Magic was the better defensive player then, that settles it :rolleyes:

Right, Bird was all hype, still to this day, while Magic is the opposite :rolleyes:


And Bird didn't bother showing up in 80, 82, 87, or 88.

If Magic/Worthy/Scott were healthy in 81,83, 88, or 91 we're probably talking 9 titles for Magic. Hows that for hypotheticals?

Please don't call 80's Kareem a top 5 all time player. The man was pushing 40 and couldn't rebound to save his life for most of the 80's.

Bird a better post scorer and rebounder?:roll: Magic's entire offensive game after Kareem left was based on domination in the post.

Magic got 8-9 boards a game playing PG, you put him at SF and he's grabbing just as many if not more than Bird due to his superior base strength. You going to try telling me Bird would get as many assists playing PG? Well he couldn't...he didn't have the handle or speed to consistently push a break like Magic. He also couldn't throw those one handed zingers through the defense in the half or fullcourt like Magic could.

Bird was a better shooter, but he couldn't carve up teams with slashing to the rack like Magic could.

Magic was several years younger and consistently outplayed PEAK Bird on the biggest stage..........................the numbers in those 3 finals aren't even CLOSE.

Bird was picking up trash in french lick at the age Magic was averaging 18/11/9/2 on 50% shooting in the playoffs and 22/11/9/3 on 57% shooting in the finals as a rookie.

[CelticBaller]

So stacked that they had a 32 game turnaround from the season before Bird to Bird's rookie season. Without McHale and Parish. Or DJ. Or Ainge.
Bird >>>>>

[Pointguard]

I was looking thru google news for Bird VS Magic a while ago and up until 87/88 it was literally NO QUESTION that Bird was better. Every article, newspaper i could find said the same things EVEN LA times. Bird was getting GOAT talks, Red (who coached Russell and against Wilt) said Bird might be greatest ever.

Then Birds back got fcked and Magic closed the gap. Fact is when they were both healthy and in prime Bird was EASILY the better player.

Much better shooter
better scorer
much better defender
better rebounder
better offball
not far away passing/playmaking

Magic never reached the level Larry was at in 84 or 86 and 88 Bird is the best offensive season in NBA history.
The counter to your arguments:

Magic controlled the game much better than Bird did
Magic was a better on the ball.
Magic was more efficient
Magic had better judgment (something has to account for discrepancy in FG% as Magic was known for half court heaves at end of quarters)
Magic was more clutch (something has to account for the many more finals moments and big games)
Magic was one of the most feared rebounders and was a top rebounding guard.
There was more of a discrepancy in assist than rebounds.
While Bird was in his prime, as a Eliteballer above explained, Magic was outplaying him in the finals. Magic also ran the most efficient offense ever once Kareem accepted a lesser role.

[DMAVS41]

Not true at all...there are many arguments for Magic over Bird...but it's close either way.

It's highly subjective in a case like this in my opinion. I rank Magic pretty high though. I currently have Magic 3rd all time and Bird 7th...

[Micku]

Bird a better post scorer and rebounder?:roll: Magic's entire offensive game after Kareem left was based on domination in the post.

Magic got 8-9 boards a game playing PG, you put him at SF and he's grabbing just as many if not more than Bird due to his superior base strength. You going to try telling me Bird would get as many assists playing PG? Well he couldn't...he didn't have the handle or speed to consistently push a break like Magic. He also couldn't throw those one handed zingers through the defense in the half or fullcourt like Magic could.


On the rebounding issue, Magic switch usually switch up on the defense and guarded bigger players. Like SFs, PFs, and SGs depending on the matchup. This was used for Magic to be a better help defender cuz he'a tall for PG. So, he didn't always guard the PG for him to get the defensive board. And Bird usually played PF earlier in his career. He battled with Moses Malone earlier in his career, and they wouldn't beat the Lakers in 1984 without Bird's contribution on the boards. The dude averaged 14 rebounds. And 15.3 rebounds against Moses Malone. While Magic is a very good rebounder as well, because he did average over 10+ rebounds before. Bird to me exhibit more hustle for the boards and has a more proven track record.

And for the post, it'll be interesting to see who is the most efficient in the post .Bird definitely more moves, better footwork, and probably scored more from the post than Magic did since Bird usually scored more points in general. Magic may be more efficient, especially since he had more of the size mismatch advantage and quickness if they send bigger players on him, but I don't know.

[SHAQisGOAT]

...and the weakness in your argument is you haven't addressed any of the actual points.



And Bird didn't bother showing up in 80, 82, 87, or 88.

If Magic/Worthy/Scott were healthy in 81,83, 88, or 91 we're probably talking 9 titles for Magic. Hows that for hypotheticals?

Please don't call 80's Kareem a top 5 all time player. The man was pushing 40 and couldn't rebound to save his life for most of the 80's.

Bird a better post scorer and rebounder? Magic's entire offensive game after Kareem left was based on domination in the post.

Magic got 8-9 boards a game playing PG, you put him at SF and he's grabbing just as many if not more than Bird due to his superior base strength. You going to try telling me Bird would get as many assists playing PG? Well he couldn't...he didn't have the handle or speed to consistently push a break like Magic. He also couldn't throw those one handed zingers through the defense in the half or fullcourt like Magic could.

Bird was a better shooter, but he couldn't carve up teams with slashing to the rack like Magic could.

Magic was several years younger and consistently outplayed PEAK Bird on the biggest stage..........................the numbers in those 3 finals aren't even CLOSE.

Bird was picking up trash in french lick at the age Magic was averaging 18/11/9/2 on 50% shooting in the playoffs and 22/11/9/3 on 57% shooting in the finals as a rookie.

Bird playing in the West with Kareem, still in his prime, on his team from the get-go (plus Wilkes, Nixon, Worthy, Scott, Coop, McAdoo...)??? :eek: Game over, Finals every single year son, and most likely more rings than what Magic has now.

:oldlol: Reaching to epic proportions.

Kareem not a top5 player of all-time???? :biggums: Yea most people will say top3 if that's what you're saying :lol
Magic was still calling Kareem the main man by 1985 lmfao, the player they had to go through, go to youtube, check google archives, it's all there.
Again, 32/12/3/1/4 on .611 TS% in the 1980 Playoffs :eek:
At 38, in the Finals, still putting up 26/9/5/1/1.5 on .629 TS%, in less than 36 minutes :bowdown: FMVP
Still making all-nba 1st in 1986.
...
Yea, just a 40 year old player who couldn't rebound :facepalm

You wouldn't even know what Magic's game was about, let alone when Kareem left or before lmfao.. Magic had a great post-game but Bird was more skilled there, could do more, Larry didn't have the "luxury" of playing against smaller guys in the post plenty of times, that's not a knock on Magic though but shouldn't also be used to knock on Bird. Magic couldn't pull stuff like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBnwSeMiVaU

Bird was a better rebounder for their careers, stop being silly, no contest. Yea because Magic was never switched to guarding forwards plenty of times :rolleyes: At the start of his career, Nixon was more the PG, especially on defense.
Superior base strength than Bird? :oldlol: Gtfoh.

Magic was clearly the better passer but Bird wasn't far away by any means, he's also of the GOAT passers and never needed to over-handle the ball. And yea Larry didn't have the lateral quickness to play PG, not that he didn't have the handles though.

Yea that outplaying argument is bullshit, just "proved it", yet you keep bringing it up :lol

These ****in stans, at least make some good arguments little kid.

[Pointguard]

Not true at all...there are many arguments for Magic over Bird...but it's close either way.

It's highly subjective in a case like this in my opinion. I rank Magic pretty high though. I currently have Magic 3rd all time and Bird 7th...
I just said the counter to his arguments - not all arguments, so please tell me where its not true?

[Pointguard]

Bird playing in the West with Kareem, still in his prime, on his team from the get-go (plus Wilkes, Nixon, Worthy, Scott, Coop, McAdoo...)??? :eek: Game over, Finals every single year son, and most likely more rings than what Magic has now.

:oldlol: Reaching to epic proportions.

Kareem not a top5 player of all-time???? :biggums: Yea most people will say top3 if that's what you're saying :lol
Magic was still calling Kareem the main man by 1985 lmfao, the player they had to go through, go to youtube, check google archives, it's all there.
Again, 32/12/3/1/4 on .611 TS% in the 1980 Playoffs :eek:
At 38, in the Finals, still putting up 26/9/5/1/1.5 on .629 TS%, in less than 36 minutes :bowdown: FMVP
Still making all-nba 1st in 1986.
...
Yea, just a 40 year old player who couldn't rebound :facepalm

You wouldn't even know what Magic's game was about, let alone when Kareem left or before lmfao.. Magic had a great post-game but Bird was more skilled there, could do more, Larry didn't have the "luxury" of playing against smaller guys in the post plenty of times, that's not a knock on Magic though but shouldn't also be used to knock on Bird. Magic couldn't pull stuff like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBnwSeMiVaU

Bird was a better rebounder for their careers, stop being silly, no contest. Yea because Magic was never switched to guarding forwards plenty of times :rolleyes: At the start of his career, Nixon was more the PG, especially on defense.
Superior base strength than Bird? :oldlol: Gtfoh.

Magic was clearly the better passer but Bird wasn't far away by any means, he's also of the GOAT passers and never needed to over-handle the ball. And yea Larry didn't have the lateral quickness to play PG, not that he didn't have the handles though.

Yea that outplaying argument is bullshit, just "proved it", yet you keep bringing it up :lol

These ****in stans, at least make some good arguments little kid.


The Celtics were built on the success pattern of the later 1900

[fpliii]

I'd take Bird pretty easily, but Magic has advantages other longevity.

[Round Mound]

Bird playing in the West with Kareem, still in his prime, on his team from the get-go (plus Wilkes, Nixon, Worthy, Scott, Coop, McAdoo...)??? Game over, Finals every single year son, and most likely more rings than what Magic has now.

:oldlol: Reaching to epic proportions.

Kareem not a top5 player of all-time???? :biggums: Yea most people will say top3 if that's what you're saying :lol
Magic was still calling Kareem the main man by 1985 lmfao, the player they had to go through, go to youtube, check google archives, it's all there.
Again, 32/12/3/1/4 on .611 TS% in the 1980 Playoffs :eek:
At 38, in the Finals, still putting up 26/9/5/1/1.5 on .629 TS%, in less than 36 minutes :bowdown: FMVP
Still making all-nba 1st in 1986.
...
Yea, just a 40 year old player who couldn't rebound :facepalm

You wouldn't even know what Magic's game was about, let alone when Kareem left or before lmfao.. Magic had a great post-game but Bird was more skilled there, could do more, Larry didn't have the "luxury" of playing against smaller guys in the post plenty of times, that's not a knock on Magic though but shouldn't also be used to knock on Bird. Magic couldn't pull stuff like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBnwSeMiVaU

Bird was a better rebounder for their careers, stop being silly, no contest. Yea because Magic was never switched to guarding forwards plenty of times :rolleyes: At the start of his career, Nixon was more the PG, especially on defense.
Superior base strength than Bird? :oldlol: Gtfoh.

Magic was clearly the better passer but Bird wasn't far away by any means, he's also of the GOAT passers and never needed to over-handle the ball. And yea Larry didn't have the lateral quickness to play PG, not that he didn't have the handles though.

Yea that outplaying argument is bullshit, just "proved it", yet you keep bringing it up :lol

These ****in stans, at least make some good arguments little kid.



:applause:

[Pointguard]

On the rebounding issue, Magic switch usually switch up on the defense and guarded bigger players. Like SFs, PFs, and SGs depending on the matchup. This was used for Magic to be a better help defender cuz he'a tall for PG. So, he didn't always guard the PG for him to get the defensive board. And Bird usually played PF earlier in his career. He battled with Moses Malone earlier in his career, and they wouldn't beat the Lakers in 1984 without Bird's contribution on the boards. The dude averaged 14 rebounds. And 15.3 rebounds against Moses Malone. While Magic is a very good rebounder as well, because he did average over 10+ rebounds before. Bird to me exhibit more hustle for the boards and has a more proven track record.
Bird definitely got more boards. But not all boards are created equal either. If Magic got a rebound it was very close to be two points on the other end. If Magic got an offensive rebounder the defense was disorganized he was better than anybody in picking the offense apart. Magic, in his first four years was a better offensive rebounder. And Bird never equalled Magic's first years level of offensive rebounding.


And for the post, it'll be interesting to see who is the most efficient in the post .Bird definitely more moves, better footwork, and probably scored more from the post than Magic did since Bird usually scored more points in general. Magic may be more efficient, especially since he had more of the size mismatch advantage and quickness if they send bigger players on him, but I don't know.
Magic was focused and methodical going down low. Magic was more interested in seeing what the defense would give the team. He posted like it was a slow lane penetration. He posted a bit different than anybody else (Penny Hardaway would later try it). Magic used it to expose the opponents switches and defensive priorities before crunch time came. Magic was scouting the defense when he posted. But he still was very efficient when he decided to score.

Magic shot on average 49% better than Bird did from 2 point land the first seven years with one year going a remarkable 75%. Bird did catch up his last two healthy years and surpass Magic. All the shooting metrics (FG%, TS% EFG% also favor Magic) That FG% discrepancy is huge over a big majority of their career. While some of it was Magic got layups in transition (this is why I say a Magic rebound/steal was worth more than other people's rebound/steal) those numbers were consistently similar in the playoffs, even favoring Magic moreso, and where the game was more half court.

Bird was more skilled in the post than Magic but I wouldn't say he was better. Magic had better judgment than Bird did, and I guess knew what he could do much better. With some people here saying Magic couldn't shoot to save his life, he would have to have been light years better than Bird in the post. He wasn't light years better but it is safe to say he did more damage in the post.

[bizil]

With these two they are on the same tier of greatness. U can't go wrong either way. But Magic had better handles and was a better passer than Bird. Don't get me wrong, from a stationary spot, Bird is as good of a passer as anybody ever. But Magic's handles and pace running the fast break give him the edge on Bird in passing. I also think Magic was normally a bigger mismatch problem than Bird too. So just to say the only advantage Magic had on Bird was durability isn't correct. But they are so close in terms of who's better, u can't argue either way. Whoever says one is WAY BETTER than the other is flat wrong. Bird on offense may be the most skilled player of all time. Magic I feel makes his teammates better than anybody ever AND redefined his position more than any player ever. When u get to this level of epicness, its splitting hairs.