Kobe in the 2001 Playoffs

[ImKobe]

29.4 ppg 7.3 rpg 6.1 apg 1.6 spg 0.8 bpg on 56%TS

led the Lakers in apg.

Despite having Shaq on his team, he led the team in Winshares & had the exact same WS/48 as Shaq.

How is it that a 22 year old Kobe managed to lead a team to the most dominant Playoff run ever, stomping a 55 win Kings & a 58 win Spurs(with the best defense in the league) on the road to the Finals with 12 straight wins in the Playoffs?

Kobe against the Kings: 35.0 ppg 9.0 rpg 4.3 apg on 47% shooting
Kobe against the Spurs: 33.3 ppg 7.0 rpg 7.0 apg on 51% shooting

he had b2b 45+ point 10+ rebound 3+ ast games. Game 4 vs the Kings & Game 1 against the Spurs. Two of the toughest defenses in the league.

http://www.xxivk.net/news/files/images/2012/08/kobe-shaq-2001.jpg

These are Kobe's & Shaq's numbers against the WC in the Playoffs in 2001

http://oi51.tinypic.com/2mq3v5i.jpg

One of the most underrated Playoff runs in league history. Putting up those numbers on the most dominant Playoff team EVER.

http://www.nba.com/media/lakers/09kobe_title_no_2.jpg

[Micku]

Afro Kobe was a beast.

[Fudge]

Kobeast.

Best playoff run ever in the last 14 years.

[moe94]

Afro Kobe was a beast.

Frobe*

[T_L_P]

Kobeast.

Best playoff run ever in the last 14 years.

Not even the best Playoff run on his team during that season, and it wasn't nearly as good as Duncan's 03 run :facepalm

Kobe was an absolute beast though. I've always said his peak was around '01.

[tpols]

that road-home differential is crazy.. Kobe put his big boy pants on when stepping into the opponents arena.

[eliteballer]

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQjLmbogVoNNKtBw6KPbhhimPOLDOZyu wrt8FQU4EoP9zKr6wDwWA

[red1]

Even as a youngin I disliked him and the lakers back then but I had grudging respect because shaq/kobe was near-unbeatable as a team. With durant now I also dislike him but I have zero respect. Pretty big difference

[Quickening]

All the attention was on the most dominant player ever :confusedshrug:

[red1]

All the attention was on the most dominant player ever :confusedshrug:
Dont sleep. Bean was a beast back then

[TheMarkMadsen]

amazing run and the best playoff team of all time

[ImKobe]

Not even the best Playoff run on his team during that season, and it wasn't nearly as good as Duncan's 03 run :facepalm

Kobe was an absolute beast though. I've always said his peak was around '01.

Kobe was arguably the best player on the 2001 Lakers squad in the Playoffs. Shaq was obviously slightly more efficient because he's a big man & he got many easy baskets thanks to Kobe. Advanced stats show that they were equal to their team's success, with Kobe being the key player on offense & Shaq being the key player on defense. Both had an equal impact in my eyes, with Kobe dominating the Western Conerence & Shaq dominating the Finals.

Kobe had a higher game score against the Western Conference than Shaq, averaging more points on identical all-around efficiency while Shaq completely dominated the Finals while Kobe worked his ass off guarding Iverson.

AI didn't shoot above 44% once in the Finals, in fact, he only shot above 40% twice in that series, mostly thanks to Kobe defending him. I remember Kobe going up against AI in the regular season & holding him scoreless for an entire half, making Iverson go 0/11, but I think it was in 2000. 2000-2003 Kobe was at his peak defensively.

[fpliii]

GOAT team during that run. :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

FroBe. :bowdown:

[Rocketswin2013]

Kobe was arguably the best player on the 2001 Lakers squad in the Playoffs. Shaq was obviously slightly more efficient because he's a big man & he got many easy baskets thanks to Kobe. Advanced stats show that they were equal to their team's success, with Kobe being the key player on offense & Shaq being the key player on defense. Both had an equal impact in my eyes, with Kobe dominating the Western Conerence & Shaq dominating the Finals.

Kobe had a higher game score against the Western Conference than Shaq, averaging more points on identical all-around efficiency while Shaq completely dominated the Finals while Kobe worked his ass off guarding Iverson.

AI didn't shoot above 44% once in the Finals, in fact, he only shot above 40% twice in that series, mostly thanks to Kobe defending him. I remember Kobe going up against AI in the regular season & holding him scoreless for an entire half, making Iverson go 0/11, but I think it was in 2000. 2000-2003 Kobe was at his peak defensively.
Delusional.

[IncarceratedBob]

duncans 03 run was shit compared to 01 frobe

duncan stans just wont quit

[T_L_P]

Kobe was arguably the best player on the 2001 Lakers squad in the Playoffs. Shaq was obviously slightly more efficient because he's a big man & he got many easy baskets thanks to Kobe. Advanced stats show that they were equal to their team's success, with Kobe being the key player on offense & Shaq being the key player on defense. Both had an equal impact in my eyes, with Kobe dominating the Western Conerence & Shaq dominating the Finals.

Kobe had a higher game score against the Western Conference than Shaq, averaging more points on identical all-around efficiency while Shaq completely dominated the Finals while Kobe worked his ass off guarding Iverson.

AI didn't shoot above 44% once in the Finals, in fact, he only shot above 40% twice in that series, mostly thanks to Kobe defending him. I remember Kobe going up against AI in the regular season & holding him scoreless for an entire half, making Iverson go 0/11, but I think it was in 2000. 2000-2003 Kobe was at his peak defensively.

I'm definitely not saying they weren't pretty much neck-and-neck in '01, but I still give the slight edge to Shaq, if not for his marginally better overall numbers then for the fact that he still was the primary focus for opponents' defenses. :confusedshrug:

But I do agree. '01 Kobe was better than any later version of himself because of his good defense.

[Rocketswin2013]

Kobe was arguably the best player on the 2001 Lakers squad in the Playoffs. Shaq was obviously slightly more efficient because he's a big man & he got many easy baskets thanks to Kobe. Advanced stats show that they were equal to their team's success, with Kobe being the key player on offense & Shaq being the key player on defense. Both had an equal impact in my eyes, with Kobe dominating the Western Conerence & Shaq dominating the Finals.

Kobe had a higher game score against the Western Conference than Shaq, averaging more points on identical all-around efficiency while Shaq completely dominated the Finals while Kobe worked his ass off guarding Iverson.

AI didn't shoot above 44% once in the Finals, in fact, he only shot above 40% twice in that series, mostly thanks to Kobe defending him. I remember Kobe going up against AI in the regular season & holding him scoreless for an entire half, making Iverson go 0/11, but I think it was in 2000. 2000-2003 Kobe was at his peak defensively.
Man Iverson shot "bad" percentages against everybody.

[T_L_P]

duncans 03 run was shit compared to 01 frobe

duncan stans just wont quit

Duncan 03: 24.7 PPG / 15.4 RPG / 5.3 APG / 0.6 SPG / 3.3 BPG / .577 TS%

Kobe 01: 29.4 PPG / 7.3 RPG / 6.1 APG / 1.6 SPG / 0.8 BPG / .555 TS%

And this was with Duncan playing eight more games :oldlol:

Duncan also beats Kobe in literally every single advanced statistic too. Not to mention Duncan won with won of the weakest championship casts in NBA history, and he played some of the most elite defense this league has ever seen.

[AnaheimLakers24]

duncan and robinson were so freakin shook

[Rocketswin2013]

Duncan 03: 24.7 PPG / 15.4 RPG / 5.3 APG / 0.6 SPG / 3.3 BPG / .577 TS%

Kobe 01: 29.4 PPG / 7.3 RPG / 6.1 APG / 1.6 SPG / 0.8 BPG / .555 TS%

And this was with Duncan playing eight more games :oldlol:


Duncan beats Kobe in literally every single advances statistic too. Not to mention Duncan dragged an underwhelming cast to the title and played some of the most elite defense in league history.
Out of the 6 stats you brought up, Duncan lost half of them.

[Rocketswin2013]

duncan and robinson were so freakin shook
Shaq pretty much ended Robinson's last bit of all-star level play for his career

[T_L_P]

Out of the 6 stats you brought up, Duncan lost half of them.

The fact that a PF had only .8 less assists than a guard is laughable.

Duncan's '03 run is considerably better than Kobe's. Of course, you probably don't think defense or circumstance matters :facepalm

And again, Duncan pretty much beats Kobe in every advanced stat (PER, same ORtg, DRtg).

[Rocketswin2013]

The fact that a PF had only .8 less assists than a guard is laughable.

Duncan's '03 run is considerably better than Kobe's. Of course, you probably don't think defense or circumstance matters :facepalm

And again, Duncan pretty much beats Kobe in every advanced stat (PER, same ORtg, DRtg).
It was impressive but I mean, do you think that run was GOAT or something?

[Vienceslav]

Duncan stan?
That's interesting.

[T_L_P]

It was impressive but I mean, do you think that run was GOAT or something?

Definitely top 5.

Again, circumstances matter. Duncan didn't have another All-Star teammate on that team. Tony Parker was pretty much his second best player and he barely shot over 40%.

Defensively, offensively, Duncan was doing it all. And this was on a team that rarely scored over 90 points per game.

[AnaheimLakers24]

anyway to find out how many points he averaged in the paint against the spurs?
i remember he would drive to thelane with no regard for duncan or robinson

[AnaheimLakers24]

Definitely top 5.

Again, circumstances matter. Duncan didn't have another All-Star teammate on that team. Tony Parker was pretty much his second best player and he barely shot over 40%.

Defensively, offensively, Duncan was doing it all. And this was on a team that rarely scored over 90 points per game.
trying to change history as we speak :roll:

[PsychoBe]

trying to change history as we speak :roll:

he's trying to use the fact that nobody watched the spurs play basketball to try and fool us into believing that what he's saying is the truth.

[T_L_P]

trying to change history as we speak :roll:

How so?

[IncarceratedBob]

Duncan 03: 24.7 PPG / 15.4 RPG / 5.3 APG / 0.6 SPG / 3.3 BPG / .577 TS%

Kobe 01: 29.4 PPG / 7.3 RPG / 6.1 APG / 1.6 SPG / 0.8 BPG / .555 TS%

And this was with Duncan playing eight more games :oldlol:

Duncan also beats Kobe in literally every single advanced statistic too. Not to mention Duncan won with won of the weakest championship casts in NBA history, and he played some of the most elite defense this league has ever seen.
So the fact that Duncans team needed to play 8 more playoff games is supposed to be impressive?

The Lakers went 15-1 in the playoffs, which IMO adds to the lore of the playoff run

It's not all about individual stats, dominance matters

[T_L_P]

So the fact that Duncans team needed to play 8 more playoff games is supposed to be impressive?

The Lakers went 15-1 in the playoffs, which IMO adds to the lore of the playoff run

It's not all about individual stats, dominance matters

Yeah, and having apex Shaq on your team is assured dominance :facepalm

If that Lakers team didn't win it all something would have been very wrong. The Spurs were considered a rebuilding team at that time.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Yeah, and having apex Shaq on your team is assured dominance :facepalm

If that Lakers team didn't win it all something would have been very wrong. The Spurs were considered a rebuilding team at that time.


:roll:

revisionist history at its finest

[SexSymbol]

Yeah, and having apex Shaq on your team is assured dominance :facepalm

If that Lakers team didn't win it all something would have been very wrong. The Spurs were considered a rebuilding team at that time.
oh wow lol. Did not expect that even from you.
Delusion at it's finest :cheers:

[T_L_P]

:roll:

revisionist history at its finest

What, you're telling me that's the championship team Pop envisioned? Sophomore Tony Parker, rookie Manu, D. Rob in his final year? They werre waiting for the old guy to go to clear a lot of cap room.

And perhaps rebuilding is the wrong word. They were a transitioning team. They were hoping for Parker/Manu to become stars, but at that time they were nobodies.

[TheMarkMadsen]

What, you're telling me that's the championship team Pop envisioned? Sophomore Tony Parker, rookie Manu, D. Rob in his final year? They werre waiting for the old guy to go to clear a lot of cap room.

And perhaps rebuilding is the wrong word. They were a transitioning team. They were hoping for Parker/Manu to become stars, but at that time they were nobodies.

2001 Spurs had the best record in the league

[ImKobe]

Delusional.

What? Stats show Kobe led the Lakers in ORTG, WS & OWS while Shaq led the Lakers in DWS & DRTG. Shaq feasted off the pathetic front court of the Sixers while Kobe did work defensively on Iverson.

Shaq had his best series in the Finals against a washed up Mutombo, who was traded to the Sixers mid-season & played 26 games for them while having his worst season & a 6-10 Theo Ratliff, while Kobe had to deal with AI on defense & also produce on offense & still averaged 25 8 6 with 1.4 stls & 1.4 blocks...

[Keno]

what about the finals stats where the real mvp took over? yea, exactly.

[T_L_P]

2001 Spurs had the best record in the league

That was not a championship team. Depth can only take you so far. In '99, Robinson was still an All-Star caliber player. In '05 it was Manu. In '07 it was Parker.

From '01-'03 Duncan had no legit second option (unless Dereck Anderson and sophomore Parker are worthy ones). And look what it lead to. Duncan had to go on an absolute tear in order to win.

[AnaheimLakers24]

what about the finals stats where the real mvp took over? yea, exactly.
ya the real mvps always show up
http://gamedayr.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/jesus-shuttlesworth-ray-allen-three-pointer-570x423.jpg

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w62/Suprchrg96/Fisher-Kobe5Rings.jpg

[ImKobe]

Man Iverson shot "bad" percentages against everybody.

While that is true, Iverson had his 2nd worst series of the Playoffs(worst if you count the fact he nearly got swept), but he had multiple 40+ point 50+ point games against Eastern teams, he never had one good game in the Finals apart from Game 1, which was not that great considering he took 41 shots for 48 points.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Kobe was arguably the best player on the 2001 Lakers squad in the Playoffs. Shaq was obviously slightly more efficient because he's a big man & he got many easy baskets thanks to Kobe. Advanced stats show that they were equal to their team's success, with Kobe being the key player on offense & Shaq being the key player on defense. Both had an equal impact in my eyes, with Kobe dominating the Western Conerence & Shaq dominating the Finals.

Kobe had a higher game score against the Western Conference than Shaq, averaging more points on identical all-around efficiency while Shaq completely dominated the Finals while Kobe worked his ass off guarding Iverson.

AI didn't shoot above 44% once in the Finals, in fact, he only shot above 40% twice in that series, mostly thanks to Kobe defending him. I remember Kobe going up against AI in the regular season & holding him scoreless for an entire half, making Iverson go 0/11, but I think it was in 2000. 2000-2003 Kobe was at his peak defensively.

So you agree that Pau Gasol was arguably the best Lakers player during the 2009 and 2010 playoffs. You know (?), because advanced metrics like 'win shares' say so ...

And no, actually, Fox and Fisher were the players defending Iverson. For the bulk of the series.

Game 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6I5DvTw15aE
You can find Game 3, 4 and 5 on this guys' channel, so please feel free to list the possessions Kobe defended Iverson, who you "mostly thanked".

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Threepeat Shaq is the most dominant player in NBA history but in the 01 playoff it was 1A and 1B. Crazy how good Kobe was and that wasnt even prime yet

[ArbitraryWater]

These Laker tards ala mad son/sexsymbol dont know jack shit...

Those early 2000's Spurs weren't all that great as people make them out to be, they WERE in fact in the midst of rebuilding... it was prime Duncan doing heavy lifting.

Heck, 2001 Shaq >> 2001 Kobe.

The only Round Kobe was superior in was vs Spurs... stop overrating.

Shaq 2001, 2002, 2000, Duncan 2003, Dirk 2006, Dirk 2011, LeBron 2012, 2013, 2009, etc. were better :cheers:

[TheMarkMadsen]

That was not a championship team. Depth can only take you so far. In '99, Robinson was still an All-Star caliber player. In '05 it was Manu. In '07 it was Parker.

From '01-'03 Duncan had no legit second option (unless Dereck Anderson and sophomore Parker are worthy ones). And look what it lead to. Duncan had to go on an absolute tear in order to win.

You are calling a 58 win team, a team that had the best record in the entire league, a team that was expected to make the finals, a team that was the best 3pt shooting team in the league, you're telling me they were in re building mode? :roll:

this is the definition of revisionist history, either way you try to spin it, Spurs were the best team in the league during the regular season, and were absolutly dismantled by Kobe in the playoffs in 01

[ImKobe]

what about the finals stats where the real mvp took over? yea, exactly.

Kobe averaged 25 8 6, which is pretty much the same Lebron averaged last year(Lebron shot 3% higher & had 2 more boards a game, but took the same amount of shots to average less than a point more) :confusedshrug:, only that Kobe was only 22 & he actually had to deal with one of the better perimeter scorers of his era.

Kobe often faced double teams & shot contested jumpers while defenders dared Lebron to shoot wide open jumpers outside 16 feet, which he still struggles to shoot this very season.

Prime Lebron: 37,6% outside 16 feet this season
22 year old Kobe: 40,6% outside 16 feet while having taken 3 times the amount of shots Lebron has taken this season outside 16 feet.

[Jlamb47]

Kobe averaged 25 8 6, which is pretty much the same Lebron averaged last year(Lebron shot 3% higher & had 2 more boards a game, but took the same amount of shots to average less than a point more) :confusedshrug:, only that Kobe was only 22 & he actually had to deal with one of the better perimeter scorers of his era.

Kobe often faced double teams & shot contested jumpers while defenders dared Lebron to shoot wide open jumpers outside 16 feet, which he still struggles to shoot this very season.

Prime Lebron: 37,6% outside 16 feet this season
22 year old Kobe: 40,6% outside 16 feet while having taken 3 times the amount of shots Lebron has taken this season outside 16 feet.

nice

[Keno]

ya the real mvps always show up
http://gamedayr.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/jesus-shuttlesworth-ray-allen-three-pointer-570x423.jpg

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w62/Suprchrg96/Fisher-Kobe5Rings.jpg

yea, zero points in the game seven while the real mvp dropped thirty seven. meanwhile another player goes 6-24 in the game seven and gets carried by gasol and bailed by out artest. questionable mvp.

[ImKobe]

These Laker tards ala mad son/sexsymbol dont know jack shit...

Those early 2000's Spurs weren't all that great as people make them out to be, they WERE in fact in the midst of rebuilding... it was prime Duncan doing heavy lifting.

Heck, 2001 Shaq >> 2001 Kobe.

The only Round Kobe was superior in was vs Spurs... stop overrating.

Shaq 2001, 2002, 2000, Duncan 2003, Dirk 2006, Dirk 2011, LeBron 2012, 2013, 2009, etc. were better :cheers:

Kobe was at least as good as Shaq vs Kings & had better numbers against the Western Conference than Shaq. Kobe's production in the Finals at 22 is similar to prime Lebron's last year :confusedshrug:

Spurs were not rebuilding in the early 2000s, they came off winning a chip in 99 & had the best record in 2001, how the hell does a rebuilding team have a better record than Shaq & Kobe, while also having the best defense & 6th best offense in the league?

[eliteballer]

These guys wouldn't even be on the floor if their knees were in the shape Kobes was in the 2010 finals.

[Rocketswin2013]

What? Stats show Kobe led the Lakers in ORTG, WS & OWS while Shaq led the Lakers in DWS & DRTG. Shaq feasted off the pathetic front court of the Sixers while Kobe did work defensively on Iverson.

Shaq had his best series in the Finals against a washed up Mutombo, who was traded to the Sixers mid-season & played 26 games for them while having his worst season & a 6-10 Theo Ratliff, while Kobe had to deal with AI on defense & also produce on offense & still averaged 25 8 6 with 1.4 stls & 1.4 blocks...
They ran the offense through Shaq, because nobody was gonna double Kobe Bryant. And they centered the defense around Shaq. They succeeded and funneled everything to the rim. Shaq owned the paint on both ends. Realistically, Shaq was the more impactful player. Take Kobe off those Lakers and they still win 50 games at the least. Take Shaq off and you just get the 04-07 Lakers.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Why is it Kobetards are the ONLY group of fans that wanna remove chunks of his career? According to them, Kobe was elite from the jump ie. 2001, and his finals series' NEVER count! :oldlol:

[TheMarkMadsen]

Yeah, and having apex Shaq on your team is assured dominance :facepalm

If that Lakers team didn't win it all something would have been very wrong. The Spurs were considered a rebuilding team at that time.



It was an embarrassing end for a team that won 58 regular-season games and was supposed to be part of one of the great playoff series in NBA history, matching the champions of the last two seasons.

San Antonio became the first team with the best regular-season record to be swept in the playoffs since Portland did it to the Lakers in the 1977 West finals. Popovich credited the Lakers rather than blame the Spurs.

"It's a lot of factors, but the main reason for the result of this series is the Los Angeles Lakers basketball team," Popovich said. "They were awesome. That's the bottom line."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/2001/playoffs/news/2001/05/27/spurs_lakers_ap/

[ImKobe]

These guys wouldn't even be on the floor if their knees were in the shape Kobes was in the 2010 finals.

Guys be hating mad on this forum & they try to do everything to downplay Kobe's 2001 run by comparing his numbers to weak era numbers from the 2010s, which really aren't that impressive to begin with. Kobe on one leg had one of the best Conference Finals series you'll ever see:

33.7 ppg 7.2 rpg 8.3 apg on 52/43/88 shooting after having his knee drained multiple times the same season

[eliteballer]

When the Lakers got to the finals they ran everything through Shaq because those teams were weak in the middle....everyone knew the WCF(and probably the 2nd and 3rd best teams in the West those years) were the REAL championship series.

[TheMarkMadsen]

2001 Spurs

3rd in Opponents points per game

1st in defensive rating

6th in offensive rating

1st in strength of schedule

58 win, best record in the league

nah they weren't good :roll:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

So you agree that Pau Gasol was arguably the best Lakers player during the 2009 and 2010 playoffs. You know (?), because advanced metrics like 'win shares' say so ...

And no, actually, Fox and Fisher were the players defending Iverson. For the bulk of the series.

Game 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6I5DvTw15aE
You can find Game 3, 4 and 5 on this guys' channel, so please feel free to list the possessions Kobe defended Iverson, who you "mostly thanked".

Still waiting on a response :cheers:

[T_L_P]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/2001/playoffs/news/2001/05/27/spurs_lakers_ap/

And I'll say it again, regular season records only reveal so much.

If you think Tim Duncan, a 35-year-old David Robinson, Antonio Daniels, Terry Porter, Derek Anderson, Danny Ferry, Avery Johnson, Malik Rose and Steve Kerr are championship worthy, I just don't know what to say.

And besides. I'm talking about the '03 Spurs here.

[eliteballer]

Still waiting on a response :cheers:

Based on what other than your irrational hate of Kobe:roll:

[Rocketswin2013]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/2001/playoffs/news/2001/05/27/spurs_lakers_ap/
Lol Omg, Fisher missed 62 games that year. And they still went 67-15. Quite possibly could have broke the 72-10 record.

[ImKobe]

They ran the offense through Shaq, because nobody was gonna double Kobe Bryant. And they centered the defense around Shaq. They succeeded and funneled everything to the rim. Shaq owned the paint on both ends. Realistically, Shaq was the more impactful player. Take Kobe off those Lakers and they still win 50 games at the least. Take Shaq off and you just get the 04-07 Lakers.

Yeah, no one was gonna double the best wing player in the league? :oldlol:

Guards often doubled Kobe & made him work hard for his points, you watch the 2000-2003 Kobe Playoff highlights & you see him pull up with 2 defenders on him at 16-18 feet. Teams doubled both Shaq & Kobe & forced Fisher & Shaw to beat them instead. The 2000-2003 Lakers were not stacked at all & relied on Kobe & Shaq to do the heavy work game in game out.

You take Kobe off the team & you get Orlando Magic Shaq teams without Penny & Horace Grant, no chance beating the Spurs or the Kings. Shaq, no, Lakers needed Kobe to close out all those Playoff games when it mattered the most. Whether it was Game 7 2000 WCF, where Kobe led the Lakers in 4 categories, or Game 4 of the 2000 Finals, Game 6 & 7 against the Kings in 2002.

Watch the damn footage & tell me Kobe's life was easy because of Shaq, he took the same kind of shots he's always taken & more often than none he faced double teams on the perimeter. He was the man in 2001.

[eliteballer]

Lol Omg, Fisher missed 62 games that year. And they still went 67-15. Quite possibly could have broke the 72-10 record.

Kobe missed about 20 himself too...

[TheMarkMadsen]

yea, zero points in the game seven while the real mvp dropped thirty seven. meanwhile another player goes 6-24 in the game seven and gets carried by gasol and bailed by out artest. questionable mvp.



Once again, Kobe Bryant led the way, but he got plenty of help from role players to overcome Tim Duncan's career playoff-high 40 points for the Spurs.

Bryant followed his 45-point performance in Game 1 with 28 points, including a 3-pointer with 1:10 to play that put Los Angeles ahead 85-78.

The game was much tougher than the Lakers' 104-90 romp in Game 1.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/2001/playoffs/news/2001/05/21/lakers_spurs_ap/

[red1]

Threepeat Shaq is the most dominant player in NBA history but in the 01 playoff it was 1A and 1B. Crazy how good Kobe was and that wasnt even prime yet
He was young but he was definitely in his prime.


When the Lakers got to the finals they ran everything through Shaq because those teams were weak in the middle....everyone knew the WCF(and probably the 2nd and 3rd best teams in the West those years) were the REAL championship series.
Yeah. Thats the main reason why I give kobe that much credit for 2001

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Based on what other than your irrational hate of Kobe:roll:

What exactly in my post screams "hate"? I'm simply correcting another posters hyperbole and am waiting for a logical counter ... if there is one :pimp:

[eliteballer]

And I'll say it again, regular season records only reveal so much.

If you think Tim Duncan, a 35-year-old David Robinson, Antonio Daniels, Terry Porter, Derek Anderson, Danny Ferry, Avery Johnson, Malik Rose and Steve Kerr are championship worthy, I just don't know what to say.

And besides. I'm talking about the '03 Spurs here.

What's the excuse for Kobe murdering Duncan's teams in 01, 02, 04, and 08? Duncan got lucky in 03 with Kobe having knee and shoulder injuries, and the Lakers gassed after 3 straight finals runs.

[TheMarkMadsen]

And I'll say it again, regular season records only reveal so much.

If you think Tim Duncan, a 35-year-old David Robinson, Antonio Daniels, Terry Porter, Derek Anderson, Danny Ferry, Avery Johnson, Malik Rose and Steve Kerr are championship worthy, I just don't know what to say.

And besides. I'm talking about the '03 Spurs here.


why in the world are you talking about the 03 Spurs, this isn't about them.

I responded to this




If that Lakers team didn't win it all something would have been very wrong. The Spurs were considered a rebuilding team at that time.

you're clearly talking about 01 as the Lakers didn't win in 03 and you said the Spurs were re building "at that time" and your "at that time" was when LA won a title

[ImKobe]

So you agree that Pau Gasol was arguably the best Lakers player during the 2009 and 2010 playoffs. You know (?), because advanced metrics like 'win shares' say so ...

And no, actually, Fox and Fisher were the players defending Iverson. For the bulk of the series.

Game 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6I5DvTw15aE
You can find Game 3, 4 and 5 on this guys' channel, so please feel free to list the possessions Kobe defended Iverson, who you "mostly thanked".

2009 Playoffs, are you kidding me? Kobe dominated the 2009 WCF & the Finals to win the title that year, Pau wasn't even close to being the man that year, he was very efficient because teams only focused on stopping Kobe & Pau feasted off of single coverage & putbacks at the rim.

2010 overall was pretty close, but Kobe's WCF series is the reason they made the Finals in the first place, Pau had a decent Finals.

This thread is about the 2001 Playoff run. & Kobe was the dominant force on the most dominant Playoff team ever.

[Rocketswin2013]

Yeah, no one was gonna double the best wing player in the league? :oldlol:

Guards often doubled Kobe & made him work hard for his points, you watch the 2000-2003 Kobe Playoff highlights & you see him pull up with 2 defenders on him at 16-18 feet. Teams doubled both Shaq & Kobe & forced Fisher & Shaw to beat them instead. The 2000-2003 Lakers were not stacked at all & relied on Kobe & Shaq to do the heavy work game in game out.

You take Kobe off the team & you get Orlando Magic Shaq teams without Penny & Horace Grant, no chance beating the Spurs or the Kings. Shaq, no, Lakers needed Kobe to close out all those Playoff games when it mattered the most. Whether it was Game 7 2000 WCF, where Kobe led the Lakers in 4 categories, or Game 4 of the 2000 Finals, Game 6 & 7 against the Kings in 2002.

Watch the damn footage & tell me Kobe's life was easy because of Shaq, he took the same kind of shots he's always taken & more often than none he faced double teams on the perimeter. He was the man in 2001.
Shaq was better and more impactful. Bottom line. They were close to equal weight offensively but defensively it's not even close.

[T_L_P]

What's the excuse for Kobe murdering Duncan's teams in 01, 02, 04, and 08? Duncan got lucky in 03 with Kobe having knee and shoulder injuries, and the Lakers gassed after 3 straight finals runs.

01, 02, 04...

um...let me think about that. Perhaps the fact that he had one of the 5 greatest players of all-time on his roster, whilst Duncan had to try and win with David Robinson's carcass and sophomore no-shows like Parker and Anderson.

08: I'm not sure. But Duncan did still put up 22.5/17.5/5/1/2 against the Lakers at 31 years old.

[T_L_P]

why in the world are you talking about the 03 Spurs, this isn't about them.

I responded to this



you're clearly talking about 01 as the Lakers didn't win in 03 and you said the Spurs were re building "at that time" and your "at that time" was when LA won a title

No, I was responding to a post about team dominance meaning more than individual performance (the Lakers needed 8 less games to win the 'ship in '01 than Duncan did in '03).

I said the '01 Lakers were sure fire winners, whereas the '03 Spurs were anything but that.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

2009 Playoffs, are you kidding me? Kobe dominated the 2009 WCF & the Finals to win the title that year, Pau wasn't even close to being the man that year, he was very efficient because teams only focused on stopping Kobe & Pau feasted off of single coverage & putbacks at the rim.

2010 overall was pretty close, but Kobe's WCF series is the reason they made the Finals in the first place, Pau had a decent Finals.

This thread is about the 2001 Playoff run. & Kobe was the dominant force on the most dominant Playoff team ever.

2009 Pau Gasol had a better ORtg :confusedshrug:

At least you admit Pau Gasol and Kobe were "close", as players, in 2010. Its refreshing to see a Kobe fanatic stay consistent.

[eliteballer]

Please list the defensive monsters that guarded Duncan in the 03 playoffs:oldlol:

[Deuce Bigalow]

And I'll say it again, regular season records only reveal so much.

If you think Tim Duncan, a 35-year-old David Robinson, Antonio Daniels, Terry Porter, Derek Anderson, Danny Ferry, Avery Johnson, Malik Rose and Steve Kerr are championship worthy, I just don't know what to say.

And besides. I'm talking about the '03 Spurs here.
60-22
3rd in Def
3rd in Opp PPG
7th in Off

[TheMarkMadsen]

2009 Pau Gasol had a better ORtg :confusedshrug:

At least you admit Pau Gasol and Kobe were "close", as players, in 2010. Its refreshing to see a Kobe fanatic stay consistent.

there's a big difference between averaging 30ppg and averaging 18ppg

a lot bigger difference than one player averaging 30 and the other averaging 29

[LoneyROY7]

He was young but he was definitely in his prime.

Really? I would definitely say his prime was '05-'09.

[fpliii]

:rockon:

[Rose'sACL]

Kobe averaged 25 8 6, which is pretty much the same Lebron averaged last year(Lebron shot 3% higher & had 2 more boards a game, but took the same amount of shots to average less than a point more) :confusedshrug:, only that Kobe was only 22 & he actually had to deal with one of the better perimeter scorers of his era.

Kobe often faced double teams & shot contested jumpers while defenders dared Lebron to shoot wide open jumpers outside 16 feet, which he still struggles to shoot this very season.

Prime Lebron: 37,6% outside 16 feet this season
22 year old Kobe: 40,6% outside 16 feet while having taken 3 times the amount of shots Lebron has taken this season outside 16 feet.
what are you talking about? lebron averaged 25.3-11-7 in last year's finals.3 more boards and 1 more assists on better fg% and this wasn't even great by his standards.
also, lol@ kobe being main focus of the defense during 3-peat. You are on the same level as corleone. he just loves lebron while you love kobe.

[Rose'sACL]

also, duncan's 2003 playoffs are better than any of kobe's playoff runs.

[fpliii]

also, duncan's 2003 playoffs are better than any of kobe's playoff runs.
True, but he's a big man doe. Can't compare them to wings.

[red1]

Really? I would definitely say his prime was '05-'09.
It's arguable but to me it is pretty clear that he was in his prime for the 2001 and 2002 championships. His game was already complete and he was a great defender, was top three in 01 and top 5 in 02

[T_L_P]

also, duncan's 2003 playoffs are better than any of kobe's playoff runs.

I don't even know why it would be so hard to admit it.

Literally, 99% of the people who watched Duncan in '03 would say the same. ESPN, an establishment that definitely doesn't have any Duncan bias, listed his '03 run as the 3rd greatest ever. I don't think Kobe had one in the top 15 (which I don't necessarily agree with).

[Rose'sACL]

True, but he's a big man doe. Can't compare them to wings.
he was doing that. i normally don't. magic, bird, jordan and lebron are the only non-big men i have watched who impact a game close to the great Cs.

[ArbitraryWater]

Why is it Kobetards are the ONLY group of fans that wanna remove chunks of his career? According to them, Kobe was elite from the jump ie. 2001, and his finals series' NEVER count! :oldlol:

This. They base it off WS's, Gasol > Kobe in 09&10 then.

[ArbitraryWater]

True, but he's a big man doe. Can't compare them to wings.

Yes you can :lol Stop with that

[Deuce Bigalow]

This. They base it off WS's, Gasol > Kobe in 09&10 then.
Not sure how youre getting 09.

[fpliii]

Yes you can :lol Stop with that
lol but then a legitimate two-way big is always better than a one- or two-way wing.

[eliteballer]

Can't even imagine the legendary playoff runs Kobe would have had if he wasn't playing with Smush Parker and Kwame Brown from 05-07:facepalm

It's a miracle those teams even got to the playoffs.

[T_L_P]

Can't even imagine the legendary playoff runs Kobe would have had if he wasn't playing with Smush Parker and Kwame Brown from 05-07:facepalm

It's a miracle those teams even got to the playoffs.

He didn't look nearly as good in those two Suns series as his Regular Season stats would suggest.

Kobe peaked in '01, especially when you consider he was still playing good defense back then.

[DonDadda59]

29.4 ppg 7.3 rpg 6.1 apg 1.6 spg 0.8 bpg on 56%TS

led the Lakers in apg.

Despite having Shaq on his team, he led the team in Winshares & had the exact same WS/48 as Shaq.

Pau Gasol in 2010- 19.6 PPG (54% FG, only 13.3 FGA)/ 11.1 RPG/ 3.5 APG/ 2.5 BPG .599% TS

He led the Lakers in RPG, BPG, WS, OWS, FG%, TS% (not counting Sasha who played only 10 games), WS/48, Defensive Win Shares, Offensive Rating, Defensive Rating (tied with Bynum), and only trailed Kobe in PER by 0.7

Against OKC he put up 18 PPG (53.2% FG)/ 12.2 RPG/ 3.7 APG (Compared to Kobe at 23.5 PPG (40.8% FG)/ 4 RPG/ 4 APG)

Against Utah he put up 23.5 PPG (60.7% FG)/ 14.5 RPG/ 2.8 APG/ 2.8 BPG

In the Finals against Boston- 18.6 PPG (47.8% FG)/ 11.6 RPG/ 3.7 APG/ 2.6 BPG (Kobe put up 28.6 PPG (took 73 more shots, 40.5% FG)/ 8 RPG/ 3.9 APG/ 2.1 SPG)

Pau led the Lakers (Not counting Vujacic who played 7 MPG) in TS%, ORBG%, DRBG%, TRBG%, RPG, BPG, MPG. He came in second in PPG, APG (by 0.2), eFG% in that finals series.

By your logic, Pau was not only the best Laker player in the playoffs in 2010, he also should've been the finals MVP.

Shaq on the other hand put up 30.4 PPG (56% FG)/ 15.4 RPG/ 3.2 APG/ 2.6 BPG and left no question as to who was the MVP in the finals playing against the DPOY in 2001.

[Vienceslav]

He didn't look nearly as good in those two Suns series as his Regular Season stats would suggest.

Kobe peaked in '01, especially when you consider he was still playing good defense back then.
It's fine to concede you were wrong, I mean saying that somebody peak @ 21 is not a great argument to start, it's the same as saying Lebron peaked in 07 because of that game against Detroit.

[ArbitraryWater]

lol but then a legitimate two-way big is always better than a one- or two-way wing.


You can't generalize it like that. Basketball isn't that easy to break down... there are about what, 7 guards in the top 20 all time? so no that wouldnt be the case.

[K Xerxes]

Kobe dominated the WC back then and apparently that's all that matters.

But the FINALS are the FINALS. There is no going around that, it's the biggest stage and the last obstacle before being crowned champions. Why is is that Kobe fans love to harp on about how weak the East was back then, but Shaq was the one to feast on said biggest stage while Kobe underperformed?

In the FINALS, Kobe averaged 25-8-6 on 41.5% shooting. A far cry from the previous series, and that's with Shaq dominating and inevitably taking defensive pressure away from Kobe. I wouldn't mind if Kobe's scoring went down if his efficiency didn't take a free fall, but it did.

Sorry, anyone who claims that Kobe was on equal status with Shaq during ANY of those 3 title runs is delusional. There is no other way to describe this. Kobe was good, but Shaq was Shaq.

[MichaelCorleone]

No FMVP, not impressed.

[fpliii]

You can't generalize it like that. Basketball isn't that easy to break down... there are about what, 7 guards in the top 20 all time? so no that wouldnt be the case.
Don't keep a GOAT list, but there wouldn't be 7 guards in mine if I did. :D

[Artillery]

Juwan Howard took out the Spurs Derek Anderson in the previous round of the playoffs and Sean Elliot was battling kidney disease. The Spurs were basically depleted at the swingman position. So Kobe was guarded by 6'3 Antonio Daniels with 38 year old 6'3 Terry Porter as his backup. When you factor in Shaq taking on heavy defensive attention (as usual), you have an ideal situation for Kobe to thrive. Shaq's performance against the Spurs was more impressive seeing as he was up against Duncan and DRob. Kobe beasted against two old, short, and slow point guards playing out of position due to injuries.

[MichaelCorleone]

Kobe's first three rings summed up in 1 picture:

http://nesncom.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/4920970629_7fb8758dbc-jpg.jpe

[fpliii]

Kobe's first three rings summed up in 1 picture:

http://nesncom.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/4920970629_7fb8758dbc-jpg.jpe
:cry:

[catquickspider]

Kobe dominated the WC back then and apparently that's all that matters.

But the FINALS are the FINALS. There is no going around that, it's the biggest stage and the last obstacle before being crowned champions. Why is is that Kobe fans love to harp on about how weak the East was back then, but Shaq was the one to feast on said biggest stage while Kobe underperformed?

In the FINALS, Kobe averaged 25-8-6 on 41.5% shooting. A far cry from the previous series, and that's with Shaq dominating and inevitably taking defensive pressure away from Kobe. I wouldn't mind if Kobe's scoring went down if his efficiency didn't take a free fall, but it did.

Sorry, anyone who claims that Kobe was on equal status with Shaq during ANY of those 3 title runs is delusional. There is no other way to describe this. Kobe was good, but Shaq was Shaq.

The WCF were the finals those years :facepalm

nobody took the sixers or nets seriously :facepalm

did you watch the NBA during those years? :facepalm