Why do fans overrate the 08 Celtics?

[JT123]

That team went 16-10 in the playoffs, pretty mediocre. They also could have easily been pushed to 7 games in the Finals if not for LA's massive choke job in game 4.
The 13 Heat are supposedly one of the weakest champions ever because they got taken to 7 games twice, yet the 08 Celtics who lost MORE playoff games than the 13 Heat are supposedly an all time great team? :roll:
SMH at the IQ of some of these ISH posters.

[LeGOAT]

Who the **** is saying the 13' Heat are one of the worst champions ever??

[DMAVS41]

That team went 16-10 in the playoffs, pretty mediocre. They also could have easily been pushed to 7 games in the Finals if not for LA's massive choke job in game 4.
The 13 Heat are supposedly one of the weakest champions ever because they got taken to 7 games twice, yet the 08 Celtics who lost MORE playoff games than the 13 Heat are supposedly an all time great team? :roll:
SMH at the IQ of some of these ISH posters.

No, I think it's you that fails to understand the point. It's that the 08 Celtics would dominate the Heat because of matchups...and just being a better team to begin with due to the health of Wade and slumping of Bosh.

[Vienceslav]

That team went 16-10 in the playoffs, pretty mediocre. They also could have easily been pushed to 7 games in the Finals if not for LA's massive choke job in game 4.
The 13 Heat are supposedly one of the weakest champions ever because they got taken to 7 games twice, yet the 08 Celtics who lost MORE playoff games than the 13 Heat are supposedly an all time great team? :roll:
SMH at the IQ of some of these ISH posters.
I think it's very impressive that they were able to win their first year when the BIG 3 was assembled.

[JT123]

Who the **** is saying the 13' Heat are one of the worst champions ever??
Everyone in the other thread saying they would lose to the 08 Celtics in 5 games. The 08 Celtics get taken to seven games by a 37 win Hawks team, but the 13 Heat supposedly would struggle to win one game. :biggums:
People on this forum are too brainwashed by nostalgia.

[aj1987]

No, I think it's you that fails to understand the point. It's that the 08 Celtics would dominate the Heat because of matchups...and just being a better team to begin with due to the health of Wade and slumping of Bosh.
Both are still better than any player that LeBron had on the Cav's. Also, '13 LeBron >>>>> '08 LeBron. Not even close.

[JT123]

I think it's very impressive that they were able to win their first year when the BIG 3 was assembled.
True, but them only winning one title kind of makes them a failure.

[Haymaker]

That C's team had it all.

[DMAVS41]

Both are still better than any player that LeBron had on the Cav's. Also, '13 LeBron >>>>> '08 LeBron. Not even close.

Yea...and the defense played by the Heat in 13 wasn't anywhere near as good as the defense played by the 08 Cavs.

You really think the Heat are winning games with Lebron 2/18....6/24...5/16.

Those Cavs are under-rated overall because they could play elite defense. Not only is Lebron not getting elite defense in 13 out of his help...he's not getting consistent play from the "better" help you claim.

You could look these hypotheticals a number of ways. The way you did, or about looking at the Heat needing 7 games to beat a far inferior Pacers team compared to the 08 Celtics. Or basically losing to an inferior Spurs team in 6 than the 08 Celtics...

I think the bottom line is that the 08 Cavs are under-rated...and the competition in 13 was over-rated.

[JT123]

That C's team had it all.
Yet they struggled to beat a garbage Cavs squad with Lebron playing like shit most of the series. :confusedshrug: And I'm supposed to believe they would beat the 12/13 Heat in 5 games or less? F out of here!

[DMAVS41]

Yet they struggled to beat a garbage Cavs squad with Lebron playing like shit most of the series. :confusedshrug: And I'm supposed to believe they would beat the 12/13 Heat in 5 games or less? F out of here!

it's matchups dude!...the 08 Celtics were just a better version of both the 13 Pacers and Spurs...

Get that through your head...the 08 Celtics did all the things that would drive the 13 Heat crazy.

[Levity]

True, but them only winning one title kind of makes them a failure.

and that strictly has to do with health.

[DonDadda59]

Because Kobe choked against them. They were a terrible playoff team. They were taken to 7 in the first round against a 37-45 Hawks team. They promptly followed that up with another 7 game series in the second round against a one man Cleveland team (45-37). After barely squeaking by Bron and co. they went 6 against the worst incarnation of the 2000s Pistons.

Great defensive team (not the best ever as some claim), but they came dangerously close to pulling an '07 Mavericks.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Yeah, they're just an NBA Champion. Pathetic.

[JT123]

it's matchups dude!...the 08 Celtics were just a better version of both the 13 Pacers and Spurs...

Get that through your head...the 08 Celtics did all the things that would drive the 13 Heat crazy.
I'm not saying the Heat would for sure win, but saying they would beat Miami in 5 games or less is asinine. No team is going to easily beat the 12/13 Heat, especially not one that got taken to 7 games by such terrible teams. The main point is that everyone always acts like that 08 Celtics team is one of the best teams of all time, and they clearly weren't.

[aj1987]

Yea...and the defense played by the Heat in 13 wasn't anywhere near as good as the defense played by the 08 Cavs.

Actually, the '13 Heat are better than the '08 Cav's, defensively.
Heat:
Opp PTS/G: 95.0 (5th of 30)
Def Rtg: 103.7 (9th of 30)

Cav's:
Opp PTS/G: 96.7 (9th of 30)
Def Rtg: 106.4 (11th of 30)

MUCH MUCH better offensively.
Heat:
PTS/G: 102.9 (5th of 30)
Off Rtg: 112.3 (2nd of 30)

Cav's:
PTS/G: 96.4 (24th of 30)
Off Rtg: 106.0 (20th of 30)



You really think the Heat are winning games with Lebron 2/18....6/24...5/16.
Wouldn't happen. LeBron has teammates who command defensive attention now. Also, '13 LeBron >>>>> '08 LeBron.


Those Cavs are under-rated overall because they could play elite defense. Not only is Lebron not getting elite defense in 13 out of his help...he's not getting consistent play from the "better" help you claim.
LOL! That team won 45 games and was an average defensive team at BEST.


You could look these hypotheticals a number of ways. The way you did, or about looking at the Heat needing 7 games to beat a far inferior Pacers team compared to the 08 Celtics. Or basically losing to an inferior Spurs team in 6 than the 08 Celtics...
You could also look at it as a worse defensive and offensive team ('08 Cav's) taking them to 7 games. The '13 Pacers are inferior to the '08 Celtics, but not by much.

Who lost to the Spurs in 6?


I think the bottom line is that the 08 Cavs are under-rated...and the competition in 13 was over-rated.
Are you being serious? LeBron's 2-5 best players were Ilgauskas, West, Wally, and Boobie. How in the hell are they better than Wade, Bosh, Battier, and Allen?

[NumberSix]

Probably to lessen the blow of Kobe getting embarrassed by them. It doesn't appear as bad if you make 2008 Boston out to be an all time great team.

[JT123]

Yeah, they're just an NBA Champion. Pathetic.
No need to get sensitive, they were champions and have to be respected. I was just pointing out that the team was a lot more flawed than people care to remember.

[DMAVS41]

Actually, the '13 Heat are better than the '08 Cav's, defensively.
Heat:
Opp PTS/G: 95.0 (5th of 30)
Def Rtg: 103.7 (9th of 30)

Cav's:
Opp PTS/G: 96.7 (9th of 30)
Def Rtg: 106.4 (11th of 30)

MUCH MUCH better offensively.
Heat:
PTS/G: 102.9 (5th of 30)
Off Rtg: 112.3 (2nd of 30)

Cav's:
PTS/G: 96.4 (24th of 30)
Off Rtg: 106.0 (20th of 30)



Wouldn't happen. LeBron has teammates who command defensive attention now. Also, '13 LeBron >>>>> '08 LeBron.


LOL! That team won 45 games and was an average defensive team at BEST.


You could also look at it as a worse defensive and offensive team ('08 Cav's) taking them to 7 games. The '13 Pacers are inferior to the '08 Celtics, but not by much.

Who lost to the Spurs in 6?


Are you being serious? LeBron's 2-5 best players were Ilgauskas, West, Wally, and Boobie. How in the hell are they better than Wade, Bosh, Battier, and Allen?


Please don't use regular season stats...when the 13 Heat in the playoffs were nothing like the 13 Heat in the regular season.

I totally agree if Wade was healthy and Bosh wasn't slumping...and Battier couldn't get minutes because he couldn't make a shot...etc. They would be a much tougher out.

But that isn't the reality of the 13 Heat. People need to really stop acting like the 13 Heat of the win streak were anything like the team that played in the playoffs.

Again...you can look at it from different angles.

Are you actually saying the 13 Pacers were as good as the 08 Celtics? Or the 13 Spurs with a slumping/hurt Parker in the finals as good as the 08 Celtics?

We could look at it both ways like that...

So I'm just going to go off the matchups...and the 08 Celtics are a nightmare matchup for the 13 Heat...

[Rose'sACL]

Ilgauskas
Ben Wallace
Wally Szczerbiak
delonte west

This plus lebron who didn't have a good series himself took that team to 7 games.

[DMAVS41]

Ilgauskas
Ben Wallace
Wally Szczerbiak
delonte west

This plus lebron who didn't have a good series himself took that team to 7 games.

I think this is a flawed way of looking at things...are you saying that because the Hawks took them to 7 games...the Hawks were better than the Lakers in the 08 season?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Brainwashed by nostalgia? 2008 was only 6 years ago, moron :oldlol:

[Real Men Wear Green]

No need to get sensitive, they were champions and have to be respected. I was just pointing out that the team was a lot more flawed than people care to remember.
If you're allowed to make a stupid topic I'm allowed to give a sensitive answer.

[Rose'sACL]

Please don't use regular season stats...when the 13 Heat in the playoffs were nothing like the 13 Heat in the regular season.

I totally agree if Wade was healthy and Bosh wasn't slumping...and Battier couldn't get minutes because he couldn't make a shot...etc. They would be a much tougher out.

But that isn't the reality of the 13 Heat. People need to really stop acting like the 13 Heat of the win streak were anything like the team that played in the playoffs.

Again...you can look at it from different angles.

Are you actually saying the 13 Pacers were as good as the 08 Celtics? Or the 13 Spurs with a slumping/hurt Parker in the finals as good as the 08 Celtics?

We could look at it both ways like that...

So I'm just going to go off the matchups...and the 08 Celtics are a nightmare matchup for the 13 Heat...
2013 heat postseason stats: points(own) 97.1 points(opp) 90.7
2008 cavs postseason stats: points(own) 89.9 points(opp) 87.8

2013 heat even with bosh and wade not playing well was a way better offensive team than that cavs team. if 2013 lebron can have great stats at great percentage against indiana then he would have done at least his 2013 finals like stats against 2008 celtics which weren't great but spurs were way better offensively than 2008 celtics.

[Rose'sACL]

If you're allowed to make a stupid topic I'm allowed to give a sensitive answer.
he is right. 2008 celtics weren't on some level that people are allowed to make threads where they claim that 2008 celtics will beat 2013 heat in 5 games.

[Real Men Wear Green]

he is right. 2008 celtics weren't on some level that people are allowed to make threads where they claim that 2008 celtics will beat 2013 heat in 5 games.
People are allowed to make threads about whatever they want. So what if you don't like their prediction on a hypothetical series that will never happen?

[Rose'sACL]

I think this is a flawed way of looking at things...are you saying that because the Hawks took them to 7 games...the Hawks were better than the Lakers in the 08 season?
well, this forum thinks that 2013 miami was not great because pacers and spurs took them to 7 games.
tell them why should i not use the same reason on 08 celtics?

[DMAVS41]

2013 heat postseason stats: points(own) 97.1 points(opp) 90.7
2008 cavs postseason stats: points(own) 89.9 points(opp) 87.8

2013 heat even with bosh and wade not playing well was a way better offensive team than that cavs team. if 2013 lebron can have great stats at great percentage against indiana then he would have done at least his 2013 finals like stats against 2008 celtics which weren't great but spurs were way better offensively than 2008 celtics.

I'm not comparing the two teams dude! Clearly the 13 Heat, even in the playoffs, were better than the 08 Cavs.

You are using flawed logic. Think about it.

Under your logic...the 08 Hawks were better than the 08 Lakers. The Hawks forced 7 games. The Lakers lost in 6 and actually got murdered in 6...you can't judge teams like that.

And again, the competition in the 13 playoffs was extremely weak for the Heat...but that isn't even the point.

[DMAVS41]

well, this forum thinks that 2013 miami was not great because pacers and spurs took them to 7 games.
tell them why should i not use the same reason on 08 celtics?

because it's more complicated than that....and you can't carry your logic all the way.

again...the 08 Hawks are better than the 08 Lakers on this thinking. do you really support that?

[Rose'sACL]

because it's more complicated than that....and you can't carry your logic all the way.

again...the 08 Hawks are better than the 08 Lakers on this thinking. do you really support that?
ask yourself that question then. why are you underrating 2013 heat then? pacers grew as a team through last year and that same team(their bench has been terrible) is one of the top teams in the league. Spurs have had injury issues and are still a top team.
2013 heat got the worst match-ups possible for them in ECF and finals and still won. How was their road easy given that OKC was a much easier match-up for them by the looks of it at least?

[aj1987]

Please don't use regular season stats...when the 13 Heat in the playoffs were nothing like the 13 Heat in the regular season.

I totally agree if Wade was healthy and Bosh wasn't slumping...and Battier couldn't get minutes because he couldn't make a shot...etc. They would be a much tougher out.

But that isn't the reality of the 13 Heat. People need to really stop acting like the 13 Heat of the win streak were anything like the team that played in the playoffs.

Again...you can look at it from different angles.

Are you actually saying the 13 Pacers were as good as the 08 Celtics? Or the 13 Spurs with a slumping/hurt Parker in the finals as good as the 08 Celtics?

We could look at it both ways like that...

So I'm just going to go off the matchups...and the 08 Celtics are a nightmare matchup for the 13 Heat...
Once again, LeBron 2-5 best players were Ilgauskas, Delonte West, Wally, and Boobie.
Ilgauska: 13/8 on 48%
West: 11/3/4 on 40%
Wally: 11/2/2 on 38%
Boobie: 9/2/3 on 45%

Those are the Playoff numbers with some generous rounding up. Even against the shitty Wizards, West and Wally scored ~10 on sub 40% shooting. That team flat out sucked. Last seasons (playoffs) Wade and Bosh >>>>>>>> everyone on that team and it's not even close.

The Cav's as a team shot 43% against the Wizards (with LeBron and Z scoring over a third on 50%).

As I said previously, with Bosh and Wade taking defensive attention away from LeBron, he would be able to operate much better. Also, '13 LeBron >>>>> '08 LeBron. That's not an opinion either. That's a FACT which you seem to ignore.

[DMAVS41]

ask yourself that question then. why are you underrating 2013 heat then? pacers grew as a team through last year and that same team(their bench has been terrible) is one of the top teams in the league. Spurs have had injury issues and are still a top team.
2013 heat got the worst match-ups possible for them in ECF and finals and still won. How was their road easy given that OKC was a much easier match-up for them by the looks of it at least?

you are implying that I am. Well, I don't think I am.

But I think talking about the actual play of Wade and Bosh matters...with Battier slumping as well. With Lebron playing poorly in the first 5.75 games of the finals...being 1 rebound away from losing to a Spurs team that I find demonstrably worse than the 08 Celtics in 6.

It's all opinion, but at least my logic is not fundamentally flawed because I'm speaking more about the actual play of these teams and the matchups.

You are using logic that if taken all the way...leads to one believing the Hawks are better than the Lakers in 08.

That is your problem...and ask yourself the question of why you think the things you do.

[JT123]

If you're allowed to make a stupid topic I'm allowed to give a sensitive answer.
Please explain to me how my thread is stupid. Can you name one thing I said that is factually incorrect? :confusedshrug: It's not a stupid thread, it's a thread you don't like because you are a Celtics fan.

[DMAVS41]

Once again, LeBron 2-5 best players were Ilgauskas, Delonte West, Wally, and Boobie.
Ilgauska: 13/8 on 48%
West: 11/3/4 on 40%
Wally: 11/2/2 on 38%
Boobie: 9/2/3 on 45%

Those are the Playoff numbers with some generous rounding up. Even against the shitty Wizards, West and Wally scored ~10 on sub 40% shooting. That team flat out sucked. Last seasons (playoffs) Wade and Bosh >>>>>>>> everyone on that team and it's not even close.

The Cav's as a team shot 43% against the Wizards (with LeBron and Z scoring over a third on 50%).

As I said previously, with Bosh and Wade taking defensive attention away from LeBron, he would be able to operate much better. Also, '13 LeBron >>>>> '08 LeBron. That's not an opinion either. That's a FACT which you seem to ignore.


You aren't even listening to me.

I'm not claiming the 13 Heat were worse than the 08 Cavs. I never said this.

I never said Lebron wasn't a clearly better player.

Stop attacking a ghost.

What I said was that the matchups make the difference here. I also added that you are under-rating the 08 Cavs...but that isn't even the point.

You are using fundamentally flawed logic that leads to shit conclusions...like the Hawks being better than the Lakers in 08. Which we all know is matter of fact...not opinion. The 08 Lakers are factually a better team than the 08 Hawks in the exact same way that 08 Lebron is worse than 13 Lebron.

But you seem to ignore this...

[fpliii]

and that strictly has to do with health.

Yeah, they're just an NBA Champion. Pathetic.
/thread

[aj1987]

What I said was that the matchups make the difference here. I also added that you are under-rating the 08 Cavs...but that isn't even the point.
How am I underrating the Cav's? They were a shit team. A 45 win team, which no one expected to do anything notable in the Playoffs. They were gonna go as far as LeBron dragged them. They were below average offensively and average defensively.

I'm not underrating them. You're overrating them.

For the millionth time:
LeBron 2-5 best players were Ilgauskas, Delonte West, Wally, and Boobie.
Ilgauska: 13/8 on 48%
West: 11/3/4 on 40%
Wally: 11/2/2 on 38%
Boobie: 9/2/3 on 45%

Those are the Playoff numbers with some generous rounding up. Even against the shitty Wizards, West and Wally scored ~10 on sub 40% shooting. That team flat out sucked. Last seasons (playoffs) Wade and Bosh >>>>>>>> everyone on that team and it's not even close.

The Cav's as a team shot 43% against the Wizards (with LeBron and Z scoring over a third on 50%).

As I said previously, with Bosh and Wade taking defensive attention away from LeBron, he would be able to operate much better. Also, '13 LeBron >>>>> '08 LeBron. That's not an opinion either. That's a FACT which you seem to ignore.

You can talk about match ups all you want, but fact is Chalmers and Rio would not have much problems with rookie Rondo. Bosh isn't going to do any worse than he did against the Pacers and Spurs. '08 Pierce vs '13 LeBron? LOL! Allen vs Wade? Allen cannot stop Wade. Lets also not forget that Miami had Battier and Allen (lol).


You are using fundamentally flawed logic that leads to shit conclusions...like the Hawks being better than the Lakers in 08. Which we all know is matter of fact...not opinion. The 08 Lakers are factually a better team than the 08 Hawks in the exact same way that 08 Lebron is worse than 13 Lebron.

But you seem to ignore this...
I've said that in my FIRST post to show you that the '08 Celtics aren't some all time great team. They were pretty vulnerable and had a lot of flaws as well. I don't even know why you're bringing up the Lakers.
You should also stop bringing up the '13 Pacers and Spurs, because they're completely different teams from the '08 Celtics.

[Rocketswin2013]

Celtics in 6 or 7. They wouldn't lose a home game.

[fpliii]

Note about the 13 Heat...the thing is, during that streak, Wade was healthy. During the playoffs, he was not (same as the year prior, Bosh too obviously). Even though LeBron has gotten better, Miami's only as good as their Big 3 (in the playoffs), and if all three aren't 100%, they're not going to roll any opponents.

Now, in 11 Wade/Bosh were both healthy, so even though LeBron didn't have the dynamite post game and improved jumper (he still needs more confidence in his j though, it's inconsistent) they were a very dangerous squad. In order to beat teams like SA/Houston/Indy (maybe the Clippers and Warriors too) which have legitimate bigs, you need a healthy Wade (last year they made it because of some clutch shots and LeBron really stepping up in big games).

I think 13 Miami was the best regular season team, but give me 11 Miami for the playoffs. Even though they won't post the same record this year, the Heat are on pace to have a Healthy Wade for the first time in 3 years, so they'll be a very strong team.

[Rose'sACL]

Note about the 13 Heat...the thing is, during that streak, Wade was healthy. During the playoffs, he was not (same as the year prior, Bosh too obviously). Even though LeBron has gotten better, Miami's only as good as their Big 3 (in the playoffs), and if all three aren't 100%, they're not going to roll any opponents.

Now, in 11 Wade/Bosh were both healthy, so even though LeBron didn't have the dynamite post game and improved jumper (he still needs more confidence in his j though, it's inconsistent) they were a very dangerous squad. In order to beat teams like SA/Houston/Indy (maybe the Clippers and Warriors too) which have legitimate bigs, you need a healthy Wade (last year they made it because of some clutch shots and LeBron really stepping up in big games).

I think 13 Miami was the best regular season team, but give me 11 Miami for the playoffs. Even though they won't post the same record this year, the Heat are on pace to have a Healthy Wade for the first time in 3 years, so they'll be a very strong team.
Wade does look like he is doing good. i always like superstar caliber players to play at at least close to fully healthy.
I really hope Rose somehow comes back with 10 games left and makes a magic transition to full health by the time they play pacers or heat.

[DMAVS41]

How am I underrating the Cav's? They were a shit team. A 45 win team, which no one expected to do anything notable in the Playoffs. They were gonna go as far as LeBron dragged them. They were below average offensively and average defensively.

I'm not underrating them. You're overrating them.

For the millionth time:
LeBron 2-5 best players were Ilgauskas, Delonte West, Wally, and Boobie.
Ilgauska: 13/8 on 48%
West: 11/3/4 on 40%
Wally: 11/2/2 on 38%
Boobie: 9/2/3 on 45%

Those are the Playoff numbers with some generous rounding up. Even against the shitty Wizards, West and Wally scored ~10 on sub 40% shooting. That team flat out sucked. Last seasons (playoffs) Wade and Bosh >>>>>>>> everyone on that team and it's not even close.

The Cav's as a team shot 43% against the Wizards (with LeBron and Z scoring over a third on 50%).

As I said previously, with Bosh and Wade taking defensive attention away from LeBron, he would be able to operate much better. Also, '13 LeBron >>>>> '08 LeBron. That's not an opinion either. That's a FACT which you seem to ignore.

You can talk about match ups all you want, but fact is Chalmers and Rio would not have much problems with rookie Rondo. Bosh isn't going to do any worse than he did against the Pacers and Spurs. '08 Pierce vs '13 LeBron? LOL! Allen vs Wade? Allen cannot stop Wade. Lets also not forget that Miami had Battier and Allen (lol).


I've said that in my FIRST post to show you that the '08 Celtics aren't some all time great team. They were pretty vulnerable and had a lot of flaws as well. I don't even know why you're bringing up the Lakers.
You should also stop bringing up the '13 Pacers and Spurs, because they're completely different teams from the '08 Celtics.


Dude. You are failing miserably here on the actual issue.

For the last ****ing time. I agree that the 13 Heat were better than the 08 Cavs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Stop listing the players on the 08 Cavs and comparing them to the 13 Heat. We both agree that the 13 Heat are a better team overall.

Now, where you are making your mistake is when you based pretty much your entire argument on the 08 Cavs almost beating the 08 Celtics...therefore the 13 Heat, because they are better than the 08 Cavs, would beat the 08 Celtics.

Do you really not follow this so far? Please take the time understand this.

Now, if you follow that line of thinking all the way through...you would also then conclude that the 08 Lakers would beat the 08 Celtics. Why? Because the 08 Lakers are clearly better than the 08 Hawks and 08 Cavs. See? If we were having this debate and the Lakers/Celtics never played in 08...you'd be saying the 08 Lakers would win. And the reasons why would be;

"Look at how the Celtics struggled to beat the Hawks and Cavs!!!! Two teams clearly worse than the Lakers...and Kobe is clearly better than anyone on the Hawks, Cavs...and even the Celtics!"

But what happened in reality? The Celtics beat the better team more easily than the other two. And they did that in large part because of the matchup. One could argue that the Celtics weren't playing great early on...and to some extent I agree, but I also think it was more of a matchup issue as well.

Do you see why your logic is flawed now? Unless of course you are willing to say that the 08 Cavs and 08 Hawks were better than the 08 Lakers. Maybe you are...and to that all I can say is agree to disagree.

[albas89]

'08 Celtics ceiling was basically unlimited. During the regular season, they humiliated teams like the Nuggets and the 22-straight-win Rockets on their home court.
Some people do not understand that, when they joined forces, the Celtics' Big 3 were in a win now situation and the huge amount of pressure was the reason why they had a really slow start in the playoffs. Once they got their first road win in Detroit, they started playing to their full potential and got the title rather easily... It's no surprise that next year, with a much worse bench, and an improved Rondo, they had taken the league by storm until KG went down. Had Garnett stayed healthy, I don't see any other team stopping them from a potential three-peat...

[fpliii]

Wade does look like he is doing good. i always like superstar caliber players to play at at least close to fully healthy.
I really hope Rose somehow comes back with 10 games left and makes a magic transition to full health by the time they play pacers or heat.
Agree, but I don't think he's coming back this year. The next time we see him on a court will be with Team USA this summer, most likely. Bulls are still a tough team, though. Nothing against the Raps, but I don't think Indy/Miami wants to face the Bulls or Nets early on, both are tough series (they won't lose, but they'll need to expend energy/effort).

[Rose'sACL]

'08 Celtics ceiling was basically unlimited. During the regular season, they humiliated teams like the Nuggets and the 22-straight-win Rockets on their home court.
Some people do not understand that, when they joined forces, the Celtics' Big 3 were in a win now situation and the huge amount of pressure was the reason why they had a really slow start in the playoffs. Once they got their first road win in Detroit, they started playing to their full potential and got the title rather easily... It's no surprise that next year, with a much worse bench, and an improved Rondo, they had taken the league by storm until KG went down. Had Garnett stayed healthy, I don't see any other team stopping them from a potential three-peat...
Heat since 2010 have had 2-3 times the pressure celtics had on them in 2008 . Heat have won 2 straight and even this year they will have more pressure to win than 08 celtics so that argument doesn't work.

[Rose'sACL]

Agree, but I don't think he's coming back this year. The next time we see him on a court will be with Team USA this summer, most likely. Bulls are still a tough team, though. Nothing against the Raps, but I don't think Indy/Miami wants to face the Bulls or Nets early on, both are tough series (they won't lose, but they'll need to expend energy/effort).
i will be in brooklyn during the playoffs. i hope nets make a deep run.

[Black and White]

Its a fact that the 08 Celtics matchup well against the 13 Heat, they are like a better version of the Pacers that took them to 7 games but with better offense, they also played tenacious defense and had scoring options everywhere. Its not about records, or what happened in the past, its about matchups and this team exploits Miamis biggest weaknesses the best.

[SpecialQue]

How the fvck do you overrate a championship team that crushed their opponent in the finals?

ISH seems to get dumber by the day. :facepalm

[aj1987]

Dude. You are failing miserably here on the actual issue.

For the last ****ing time. I agree that the 13 Heat were better than the 08 Cavs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Stop listing the players on the 08 Cavs and comparing them to the 13 Heat. We both agree that the 13 Heat are a better team overall.

Now, where you are making your mistake is when you based pretty much your entire argument on the 08 Cavs almost beating the 08 Celtics...therefore the 13 Heat, because they are better than the 08 Cavs, would beat the 08 Celtics.

Do you really not follow this so far? Please take the time understand this.
How exactly is that flawed? The '13 Heat are virtually better at EVERY position than the '08 Cav's. You previously claimed that the '13 Heat would lose because the '08 Cav's were better defensively (which is not exactly true), ignoring the fact that the '13 Heat are MUCH better offensively.


Now, if you follow that line of thinking all the way through...you would also then conclude that the 08 Lakers would beat the 08 Celtics. Why? Because the 08 Lakers are clearly better than the 08 Hawks and 08 Cavs. See? If we were having this debate and the Lakers/Celtics never played in 08...you'd be saying the 08 Lakers would win. And the reasons why would be;
:facepalm The Celtics scored about a quarter of their points from the 3pt line in the Finals. Allen went HAM and shot OVER 50% from the 3 (ON 7 3's). Something which they did not do against the Hawks and the Cav's. The Lakers were trash in the Finals. Kobe was scoring at 50% TS. Since you brought up match ups, the '13 Heat match up pretty well. Also, the '13 Heat >>> the '08 Lakers.


"Look at how the Celtics struggled to beat the Hawks and Cavs!!!! Two teams clearly worse than the Lakers...and Kobe is clearly better than anyone on the Hawks, Cavs...and even the Celtics!"
Kobe was NOT better than LeBron and certainly not better '13 LeBron.


But what happened in reality? The Celtics beat the better team more easily than the other two. And they did that in large part because of the matchup. One could argue that the Celtics weren't playing great early on...and to some extent I agree, but I also think it was more of a matchup issue as well.
From my previous post:

You can talk about match ups all you want, but fact is Chalmers and Rio would not have much problems with rookie Rondo. Bosh isn't going to do any worse than he did against the Pacers and Spurs. '08 Pierce vs '13 LeBron? LOL! Allen vs Wade? Allen cannot stop Wade. Lets also not forget that Miami had Battier and Allen (lol).


Do you see why your logic is flawed now? Unless of course you are willing to say that the 08 Cavs and 08 Hawks were better than the 08 Lakers. Maybe you are...and to that all I can say is agree to disagree.
As I said previously, the only reason why the Celtics got it done in 6 is because of them going crazy from the 3 and Kobe being Kobe. You just don't want to take the L, do you?

Once again, stop bringing up the Lakers as they have nothing to do with the current discussion. We're talking about the '13 Heat vs the '08 Celtics.

You are talking about match ups, but you don't seem to realize that the '13 Heat are SIGNIFICANTLY better than the '08 Cav's at virtually every position. The '13 Heat are also MUCH better than the '08 Lakers.
You brought up the defense, but the '13 Heat were pretty much better than the '08 Cav's defensively and a LOT better offensively.

The only two arguments that you have are that the Celtics cause matchup problems (they DON'T) and that the '08 Cav's are better defensively (they're NOT).

Seriously, make a case as to how the '08 Celtics are better

God you're ****ing retarded sometimes.

[DMAVS41]

How exactly is that flawed? The '13 Heat are virtually better at EVERY position than the '08 Cav's. You previously claimed that the '13 Heat would lose because the '08 Cav's were better defensively (which is not exactly true), ignoring the fact that the '13 Heat are MUCH better offensively.


:facepalm The Celtics scored about a quarter of their points from the 3pt line in the Finals. Allen went HAM and shot OVER 50% from the 3 (ON 7 3's). Something which they did not do against the Hawks and the Cav's. The Lakers were trash in the Finals. Kobe was scoring at 50% TS. Since you brought up match ups, the '13 Heat match up pretty well. Also, the '13 Heat >>> the '08 Lakers.


Kobe was NOT better than LeBron and certainly not better '13 LeBron.


From my previous post:

You can talk about match ups all you want, but fact is Chalmers and Rio would not have much problems with rookie Rondo. Bosh isn't going to do any worse than he did against the Pacers and Spurs. '08 Pierce vs '13 LeBron? LOL! Allen vs Wade? Allen cannot stop Wade. Lets also not forget that Miami had Battier and Allen (lol).


As I said previously, the only reason why the Celtics got it done in 6 is because of them going crazy from the 3 and Kobe being Kobe. You just don't want to take the L, do you?

Once again, stop bringing up the Lakers as they have nothing to do with the current discussion. We're talking about the '13 Heat vs the '08 Celtics.

You are talking about match ups, but you don't seem to realize that the '13 Heat are SIGNIFICANTLY better than the '08 Cav's at virtually every position. The '13 Heat are also MUCH better than the '08 Lakers.
You brought up the defense, but the '13 Heat were pretty much better than the '08 Cav's defensively and a LOT better offensively.

The only two arguments that you have are that the Celtics cause matchup problems (they DON'T) and that the '08 Cav's are better defensively (they're NOT).

Seriously, make a case as to how the '08 Celtics are better

God you're ****ing retarded sometimes.

Take the L? What?

Your logic is horribly flawed and you keep shifting the goal post.

And you are straw manning non stop. I said the 08 Cavs played better defense than the 13 Heat in the playoffs. I also said they matched up better...which I think they did.

You can't just "shrug off" the 08 finals because Kobe is Kobe. Total joke.

The 13 Heat have become one of the most over-rated teams in history...well, I should say in the playoffs they were.

And no, the 13 Heat are not much better than the 08 Lakers. Again...these myths about the 13 Heat in the playoffs really need to ****ing stop.

You are using horribly flawed logic and attacking straw men arguments. And you really need to stop acting like a 66 win team (despite KG and Allen missing like 20 games between them) that played the best defense in the league isn't very good. Stop acting like they beat the Lakers because they got "hot" or something. Just no. They had a dynamic big 3 in KG/Allen/Pierce and very good supporting cast and a great coach as well.

Damn...you are so ****ing retarded.

[aj1987]

Take the L? What?

Your logic is horribly flawed and you keep shifting the goal post.

And you are straw manning non stop. I said the 08 Cavs played better defense than the 13 Heat in the playoffs. I also said they matched up better...which I think they did.
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

How the **** do they match up better with the Celtics? The Heat are virtually better at every position than the '08 Cav's and can 'cause more problems with a SIGNIFICANTLY better SF, PG, SG, PF. Also a bench which is about as good as the Cav's starters.

The '13 Heat had a 7 point differential between points given and points scored. Cav's? 2.



You can't just "shrug off" the 08 finals because Kobe is Kobe. Total joke.
Dude shot 50% TS in the Finals. The Lakers bench was GARBAGE as well.


The 13 Heat have become one of the most over-rated teams in history...well, I should say in the playoffs they were.
Really? I see idiots everywhere claiming that the Heat are most stacked of all time, but they'd get swept by the '08 Bobcats, if they meet.

That was sarcasm, if you didn't understand.


You are using horribly flawed logic and attacking straw men arguments.

Damn...you are so ****ing retarded.
You seriously haven't made a single point to show how the '13 Heat wouldn't beat the Celtics, other than "MATCHUPSSZ!" and that '08 Cav's were better defensively. I've already covered both of those, which you seem to ignore and deflect by bringing up the Lakers and Hawks.

Stick to overrating Dirk, kid.

EDIT: Stop trying to deflect by bringing up the Lakers and Hawks and actually TRY to make an argument.


EDIT 2: Since you seem to be a bit thick, I'll say it again.

The '13 Heat pose more problems, with their vastly better offense. The Heat bench is = the Cav's starters. The Heat starters are a few tiers better than literally every starter on the Cav's. The improved offense would mean lesser defensive attention on LeBron, who's also MUCH better than '08 LeBron. Pierce isn't stopping LeBron and Allen would hardly effect Wade. Bosh wouldn't be any worse than '13 Bosh and rookie Rondo wouldn't do shit against the Heat.

[97 bulls]

The '13 Heat pose more problems, with their vastly better offense. The Heat bench is = the Cav's starters. The Heat starters are a few tiers better than literally every starter on the Cav's. The improved offense would mean lesser defensive attention on LeBron, who's also MUCH better than '08 LeBron. Pierce isn't stopping LeBron and Allen would hardly effect Wade. Bosh wouldn't be any worse than '13 Bosh and rookie Rondo wouldn't do shit against the Heat.



@ aj987

You don't think Garnetts defense at that stage of his career would impact the game more than Duncan's at 37? The Celtics bigs rotation of Garnett, PJ Brown, Perkins and Big Baby Davis is far superior to anything the Heat encountered.

I also feel Wades offense would be effected if he had to chase Ray Allen around thise picks and screens the whole game.

I gotta go with the Celtics on this one. And I agree with Dmavs. Just too many matchup problems for the Heat.

[MichaelCorleone]

They're not overrated, if anything they are underrated.

[Boston C's]

Take the L? What?

Your logic is horribly flawed and you keep shifting the goal post.

And you are straw manning non stop. I said the 08 Cavs played better defense than the 13 Heat in the playoffs. I also said they matched up better...which I think they did.

You can't just "shrug off" the 08 finals because Kobe is Kobe. Total joke.

The 13 Heat have become one of the most over-rated teams in history...well, I should say in the playoffs they were.

And no, the 13 Heat are not much better than the 08 Lakers. Again...these myths about the 13 Heat in the playoffs really need to ****ing stop.

You are using horribly flawed logic and attacking straw men arguments. And you really need to stop acting like a 66 win team (despite KG and Allen missing like 20 games between them) that played the best defense in the league isn't very good. Stop acting like they beat the Lakers because they got "hot" or something. Just no. They had a dynamic big 3 in KG/Allen/Pierce and very good supporting cast and a great coach as well.

Damn...you are so ****ing retarded.

dmavs you honestly proved your point when you showed lebrons horrid games during that series...the heat don't survive 2-18, 6-24, 5-16 etc if lebron brings that but as horrid as he shot that series the cavs went 7 games...is that a testament to lebron? No that defense was the reason they were kept in games

[aj1987]

@ aj987

You don't think Garnetts defense at that stage of his career would impact the game more than Duncan's at 37? The Celtics bigs rotation of Garnett, PJ Brown, Perkins and Big Baby Davis is far superior to anything the Heat encountered.
I've said (in another thread) that it will be a 6/7 games series and could go either way. I just don't agree with that idiot who thinks that the Celtics would destroy the Heat and that it would be a 5 game series at worst.


I also feel Wades offense would be effected if he had to chase Ray Allen around thise picks and screens the whole game.
Wade and LeBron could definitely switch between Pierce and Allen. Wade is actually pretty good at defensing SF's.



I gotta go with the Celtics on this one. And I agree with Dmavs. Just too many matchup problems for the Heat.
The Celtics would have more problems with trying to stop Wade and '13 LeBron. Also, they'd have a problem guarding the Heat at the 3pt line. Rondo wasn't great defensively, Allen is Allen, and Pierce wasn't elite as well. IIRC, Heat shot 40% from the 3 last season in the playoffs.

What most people seem to forget/ignore is that '13 LeBron >>>>> '08 LeBron. Not even close. That coupled with lesser defensive attention with Wade/Bosh/Allen on the Heat is why I think the Heat could beat them.