What does Lebron need to retire the GOAT?

[Connor B]

What does Lebron have to do to make him the GOAT in your mind?

6 championships with 6 Finals MVPS? More than that?
5 MVPs? More than that?

I personally would want to see 6 FMVPs with 6 chips, 5-6 MVPs, 1 DPOY, 15+ all star appearances, 30,000 points, 10,000 assists, 10,000 rebounds, 12+ all-NBA first team, 10+ all-nba defensive team.

[Keno]

two more mvps and three more rings/finals mvps. if he retires with career averages of twenty seven - seven - and seven, undisputed.

six time league mvp.
five time champion and five finals mvps.
goat all around career numbers.

[bukowski81]

Go back in time and dont embarrass himself in 2 finals

[JohnFreeman]

retire

[sportjames23]

Go back in time and dont embarrass himself in 2 finals


Beat me to it. :D

He'd never be the GOAT even if he had played well in those Finals, doe.

[ImKobe]

Not choke 2011 Finals.

[Rose'sACL]

Beat me to it. :D

He'd never be the GOAT even if he had played well in those Finals, doe.
what if he reaches 8 finals total and wins 6 rings and FMVPs. that is same rings/fmvps as jordan while reaching more finals.
It is very very unlikely but if he does that it would be a GOAT resume (modern era).

[Milbuck]

Bill Russell the competition from here on out.

[AirFederer]

Sixpeat after Wade retires.

[ImKobe]

what if he reaches 8 finals total and wins 6 rings and FMVPs. that is same rings/fmvps as jordan while reaching more finals.
It is very very unlikely but if he does that it would be a GOAT resume in modern era.

It won't happen anyways. Heat already look like they're on their last legs, and unless Bran bolts, he'll be looking at 3-4 rings at best by the age of 34, when he can opt out and go to another team.

If Bran re-signs with Miami, they will have 1-2 more years of being solid contenders if Wade can keep playing, after that they'll be rebuilding.

[DFish24]

Time machine, not get outplayed by roleplayers in the Finals.

[Harison]

That ship has sailed, and there is nothing LBJ can do about it anymore. He can continue climbing on All-time list though.

[sportjames23]

what if he reaches 8 finals total and wins 6 rings and FMVPs. that is same rings/fmvps as jordan while reaching more finals.
It is very very unlikely but if he does that it would be a GOAT resume (modern era).

Russell's got more Finals and rings than MJ, but MJ is still considered the GOAT by most.

Bron not only has to come close to MJ in rings, but play out of his mind in the Finals. People look at MJ rings, but tend to now forget how many epic Finals moments he has.

[Rose'sACL]

Russell's got more Finals and rings than MJ, but MJ is still considered the GOAT by most.

Bron not only has to come close to MJ in rings, but play out of his mind in the Finals. People look at MJ rings, but tend to now forget how many epic Finals moments he has.
i am just saying "if" . he has won only 2 right now but you acted like losing 2 finals means that winning 6 after losing 2 somehow makes you a lesser player than someone who won 6 out of 6 finals.
Very unlikely and he will most probably be close to bird and magic instead of jordan by the time he retires.

[CeilingFan#1]

He needs Michael Jordan's abilities and mentality.

[JebronLames]

Have fun playing basketball.

[Yankstar]

All about rings and FMVPs. He has got enough MVPs, more would be just icing on the make. I would say 5 peat at least or 3-4 additional titles over the next decade with FMVPs/MVPs and it would help if he could leave the heat and raise another team up (Cleveland would help his legacy more, with the return of the chosen son factor).

[uber]

a few more All Star teammates

[ripthekik]

he needs to win 8 more rings without having 2 all star teammates. Right now, no matter what he does doesn't mean crap because of all the help.

[maybeshewill13]

Go back in time and deliver the promised ring to his home city which he quit on, take back the biggest choke in NBA history that is the 2011 finals.

Then win 5 more finals and FMVP.

So.. Not going to happen.

[JohnMax]

How would a ring in Cleveland elevate him when many other superstars have won a ring with their original team.

Heck Dwyane Wade won Miami's 1st championship and outside of Miami, no one really cares.

[ILLsmak]

That ship has sailed, and there is nothing LBJ can do about it anymore. He can continue climbing on All-time list though.

I dunno if he gets a four peat or the fabled double 3 peat, he can definitely get a chance. I personally don't think he deserves it because he went to Miami, but because rings and accolades matter, his GOAT resume will be comparable to MJ if he gets 4 rings in a row + more or 3 peats twice.

I guess he'd have to do MORE than Jordan tho to be indisputable GOAT like MJ. Still a four peat + more would be pretty good.

-Smak

[BlazerRed]

I dunno if he gets a four peat or the fabled double 3 peat, he can definitely get a chance. I personally don't think he deserves it because he went to Miami, but because rings and accolades matter, his GOAT resume will be comparable to MJ if he gets 4 rings in a row + more or 3 peats twice.

I guess he'd have to do MORE than Jordan tho to be indisputable GOAT like MJ. Still a four peat + more would be pretty good.

-Smak
He would definitely have to do way more than MJ did because he choked massively in two finals series.. which MJ never did. He also promised his home town a championship then quit on them and joined his buddies to form the most stacked team ever. Leflop would need to win another 6-7 rings and 6-7 FMVP.

Jordan was 6 of 6, with 6 FMPV. No finals choke jobs like Lechoke.

[diamenz]

That ship has sailed, and there is nothing LBJ can do about it anymore. He can continue climbing on All-time list though.

this.

measure a goat candidate fully - don't nit-pick stats and accomplishments. lebron will stay top ten though.

[Nikola_]

WIn it in New York:cheers:

[BoutPractice]

He won't, at least I don't think so. But with two additional titles over the rest of his career, and enough longevity to deliver the KAJ-esque stats totals that seem promised to him, he'd land relatively safely in the top 4 with a good case for top 3. Top 5's the median outcome I would expect.

[Jlamb47]

I think its too late for him to become GOAT unless he can pull 5 rings out his ass
He choked 2 finals and that dosnt go away. Jordan never choked in moments like that and he retired two years where he could of 8 peated possibly. I think Jordan is clear Goat in this comparison. Maybe one day someone will dethrone him.

[alexd]

He needs Michael Jordan's abilities and mentality.
abilities no
mentality yes

[plowking]

I think its too late for him to become GOAT unless he can pull 5 rings out his ass
He choked 2 finals and that dosnt go away. Jordan never choked in moments like that and he retired two years where he could of 8 peated possibly. I think Jordan is clear Goat in this comparison. Maybe one day someone will dethrone him.

Since when does Jordan not choke in moments like that? Where does this BS come from? Where does this notion of MJ never having a bad closeout game magically appear from?

Jordan shot 5-19 against the Sonics in a closeout game in the 1996 finals... The reason its never brought up? His team won the game. Hell, look at Kobe. He won the damn finals, and people still bring up his 6-24 game. Problem for Kobe is, he doesn't have this BS aura about him that MJ does where apparently he did no wrong.

Jordan shot 39% against the Heat in the 97 playoffs. Know why you never hear about it? Because they demolished us in 5. He took 31 shots to score 28 points in the closeout and they still beat us by double digits... He shot 9-35 in another game that series and it was a 1 possession game with under a minute to go...

How about in the 98 playoffs. Game 7 against Indiana... He shoots 9-25 in a closeout game/elimination game... No one says anything because his team won the game.

There are more examples, but I'll cease due to the simple fact I'll be labelled a Jordan hater... This mythical BS aura that Jordan has built up is getting more absurd with every passing day after his retirement.

[SHABBA]

He can't feasibly become the GOAT any more.

[Warfan]

Since when does Jordan not choke in moments like that? Where does this BS come from? Where does this notion of MJ never having a bad closeout game magically appear from?

Jordan shot 5-19 against the Sonics in a closeout game in the 1996 finals... The reason its never brought up? His team won the game. Hell, look at Kobe. He won the damn finals, and people still bring up his 6-24 game. Problem for Kobe is, he doesn't have this BS aura about him that MJ does where apparently he did no wrong.

Jordan shot 39% against the Heat in the 97 playoffs. Know why you never hear about it? Because they demolished us in 5. He took 31 shots to score 28 points in the closeout and they still beat us by double digits... He shot 9-35 in another game that series and it was a 1 possession game with under a minute to go...

How about in the 98 playoffs. Game 7 against Indiana... He shoots 9-25 in a closeout game/elimination game... No one says anything because his team won the game.

There are more examples, but I'll cease due to the simple fact I'll be labelled a Jordan hater... This mythical BS aura that Jordan has built up is getting more absurd with every passing day after his retirement.

Some good points. I remember the 93? (I think) Knicks series when they went to 6 games and jordan played like garbage for those first 3 games and scottie stopped the bulls from going down 3-0 by having a very good game 3. And then mj went off for like 50 points the next game and had a trip dub or close to it the game after and the played poor in the final game of the series.

Then there's other games like game 5? I wanna say during the 89 ecf when he took like 7 shots, and 87' against Boston in the elimination game I think he shoot poorly. And then after his 63 point game he didn't play well, same with the last game in his first playoff series against Milwaukee.

This is pretty nitpicky but yes the GOAT did have bad playoff games and series

[sportjames23]

Some good points. I remember the 93? (I think) Knicks series when they went to 6 games and jordan played like garbage for those first 3 games and scottie stopped the bulls from going down 3-0 by having a very good game 3. And then mj went off for like 50 points the next game and had a trip dub or close to it the game after and the played poor in the final game of the series.

Then there's other games like game 5? I wanna say during the 89 ecf when he took like 7 shots, and 87' against Boston in the elimination game I think he shoot poorly. And then after his 63 point game he didn't play well, same with the last game in his first playoff series against Milwaukee.

This is pretty nitpicky but yes the GOAT did have bad playoff games and series


MJ have bad playoff games? Yes.

Bad series? No. And he was NEVER outplayed by another player in any series he played in, win or lose for the Bulls.

[plowking]

Some good points. I remember the 93? (I think) Knicks series when they went to 6 games and jordan played like garbage for those first 3 games and scottie stopped the bulls from going down 3-0 by having a very good game 3. And then mj went off for like 50 points the next game and had a trip dub or close to it the game after and the played poor in the final game of the series.

Then there's other games like game 5? I wanna say during the 89 ecf when he took like 7 shots, and 87' against Boston in the elimination game I think he shoot poorly. And then after his 63 point game he didn't play well, same with the last game in his first playoff series against Milwaukee.

This is pretty nitpicky but yes the GOAT did have bad playoff games and series

Yeah... That Knicks series is one of his worst. He had 4 terrible games, 1 average one, and a great one.

Anyway... My point was. People don't care because his team won. Same with Bird. Most people don't know he had 2 single digit scoring games in the same finals series. Its all because his team won.
Bron honestly can't have those types of games now with the media exposure being bigger than ever, and just on the basis of how his team is built. No real bigs, no rebounding and the oldest team in the league. If hes off, the Heat more than likely lose.
Its no coincidence his bad run and the teams losing streak are perfectly aligned.


Anyway. I don't think he catches MJ simply for the fact he probably won't be as decorated in terms of achievements when he retires. Its extremely hard to win a championship. Being a Heat fan, I hope I'm wrong and they get easier if he decides to stay here, but we'll see.

[Jlamb47]

Since when does Jordan not choke in moments like that? Where does this BS come from? Where does this notion of MJ never having a bad closeout game magically appear from?

Jordan shot 5-19 against the Sonics in a closeout game in the 1996 finals... The reason its never brought up? His team won the game. Hell, look at Kobe. He won the damn finals, and people still bring up his 6-24 game. Problem for Kobe is, he doesn't have this BS aura about him that MJ does where apparently he did no wrong.

Jordan shot 39% against the Heat in the 97 playoffs. Know why you never hear about it? Because they demolished us in 5. He took 31 shots to score 28 points in the closeout and they still beat us by double digits... He shot 9-35 in another game that series and it was a 1 possession game with under a minute to go...

How about in the 98 playoffs. Game 7 against Indiana... He shoots 9-25 in a closeout game/elimination game... No one says anything because his team won the game.

There are more examples, but I'll cease due to the simple fact I'll be labelled a Jordan hater... This mythical BS aura that Jordan has built up is getting more absurd with every passing day after his retirement.
The difference is Jordan WON

[plowking]

MJ have bad playoff games? Yes.

Bad series? No. And he was NEVER outplayed by another player in any series he played in, win or lose for the Bulls.

Yes. He has had bad series.

In what way is shooting 39% while scoring 30ppg a good series considering you shoot 50% normally?

And yes, hes been outplayed before. By Sidney Moncrief. Shawn Kemp was probably the best player in the 96 finals. Larry Bird did.

[Rubio2Gasol]

Not get punked by Jason Terry and JJ Barea?

[plowking]

The difference is Jordan WON

Yeah... that's the point I'm making. :oldlol:

Jordan won. Because of his team... Not because he was doing something special. :oldlol:
This is exactly the bullshit basketball fans spit out and regurgitate, and actually come to believe. Having a shit game, is having a shit game. Winning while having a shit game is not because of you for the most part, its because the team picked up the slack elsewhere. Shooting 5-19 in a closeout is never helpful to your team whichever way you want to cut it.

You're not a bad analyst of basketball if you believe it. You're simply bad at analyzing anything if you believe it.

[Asukal]

Some good points. I remember the 93? (I think) Knicks series when they went to 6 games and jordan played like garbage for those first 3 games and scottie stopped the bulls from going down 3-0 by having a very good game 3. And then mj went off for like 50 points the next game and had a trip dub or close to it the game after and the played poor in the final game of the series.

Then there's other games like game 5? I wanna say during the 89 ecf when he took like 7 shots, and 87' against Boston in the elimination game I think he shoot poorly. And then after his 63 point game he didn't play well, same with the last game in his first playoff series against Milwaukee.

This is pretty nitpicky but yes the GOAT did have bad playoff games and series

Only games he played terribly is game 3 and 6. Its funny how you downplay Jordan's performance and praise Pippen's yet you don't consider their roles. That knicks team was hell bent on stopping MJ and they did a very good job of slowing him down. Do you really believe Pippen played well because he was a better player than Jordan? :rolleyes:

[Rocketswin2013]

7 FMVP' s. Take it or leave it. And I think people need to realize, to be the GREATEST, you have to be BETTER. Not close, not "it's a wash", but BETTER than anybody else. His MVP count is almost GOAT level but he needs to 7 FMVP, 6 at the least.

[Rocketswin2013]

Yeah... that's the point I'm making. :oldlol:

Jordan won. Because of his team... Not because he was doing something special. :oldlol:
This is exactly the bullshit basketball fans spit out and regurgitate, and actually come to believe. Having a shit game, is having a shit game. Winning while having a shit game is not because of you for the most part, its because the team picked up the slack elsewhere. Shooting 5-19 in a closeout is never helpful to your team whichever way you want to cut it.

You're not a bad analyst of basketball if you believe it. You're simply bad at analyzing anything if you believe it.
I guarantee you he would have played great in that GM 6 of the 11' Finals. I guarantee it. No way he does what LeBron did, even in his worse series..

[Keno]

lmao at ship has sailed. he has more rings and mvps at age twenty nine than jordan did. yea, clearly sailed.

[Rocketswin2013]

lmao at ship has sailed. he has more rings and mvps at age twenty nine than jordan did. yea, clearly sailed.
Seasons. Why use age?

[TheMan]

Go back in time and dont embarrass himself in 2 finals
And he was a missed miracle shot away by Ray Ray from having 3 stink Finals:oldlol:

GOAT? Hell nah:no:

And I actually like LeBron but MJ postseason killer, especially Finals he ain't.

[Keno]

Seasons. Why use age?

so you're saying jordan would of won rings and mvps in his rookie/sophomore years? lmaooo.

[TheMan]

so you're saying jordan would of won rings and mvps in his rookie/sophomore years? lmaooo.
Seasons bruh, no one but Bran stans compare by age. Have you ever heard KAJ stans say how many chips he had compared to Wilt by the age of 29? No. You compare by seasons because not all players enter the league at the same age, numbskull.:facepalm

[STATUTORY]

bring a ring back to cleveland at the very least

[red1]

After 2011 its just not possible. He needs to work on that jumper too. He improved but its still not where it could be.

[red1]

If he had jordan/kobe work ethic then I have no doubt he would have claim for GOAT

[STATUTORY]

If he had jordan/kobe work ethic then I have no doubt he would have claim for GOAT
i disagree, people dont usually think of coordination and body control as innate talent but they are. Bran has clunky and mechanical feet compared to Jordan/Kobe and lacks that elite first step. He was never going to be as good an half court scorer as those 2

[kamil]

LeBrons* had too many embarrassing moments of mediocrity. Getting swept in the finals was the first nail in the coffin.... colluding was the second... losing the finals and performing like a scrub in crunch time AFTER colluding was the final nail in the coffin.

The guy had his chances for being GOAT and failed. He's got a better shot at getting a male pattern baldness cure for his receding hairline than being GOAT.

[TheMan]

LeBrons* had too many embarrassing moments of mediocrity. Getting swept in the finals was the first nail in the coffin.... colluding was the second... losing the finals and performing like a scrub in crunch time AFTER colluding was the final nail in the coffin.

The guy had his chances for being GOAT and failed. He's got a better shot at getting a male pattern baldness cure for his receding hairline than being GOAT.
:oldlol: That was cold and uncalled for, man.:oldlol:

[jlip]

GOAT is basically a matter of opinion. So all he needs is a few more accomplishments (i.e. MVPs, rings), and a new generation of fans who view MJ the way fans of the MJ generation view Russell, Wilt, and Kareem.

[red1]

i disagree, people dont usually think of coordination and body control as innate talent but they are. Bran has clunky and mechanical feet compared to Jordan/Kobe and lacks that elite first step. He was never going to be as good an half court scorer as those 2
He's not going to be as fluid or agile but he doesnt need to be. If his jumpshot was even SLIGTLY better he would literally be unguardable. Right now he pulls back to the three point line before he drives and the defender knows what he is going to do because he is predictable as f*ck but they still cant stop him from getting a decent look. If they played him even a little tighter then he woulnt have to expend so much energy and everythin would be easier

[Prometheus]

LeBron is the King of today's NBA, and should easily retire a top-10 all-time player.

But there is NOTHING he can do from here on out that would make him the GOAT. That ship has sailed, just f*cking let it go.

[kamil]

:oldlol: That was cold and uncalled for, man.:oldlol:

I've got a receded hairline as well actually. No shame in it, it's part of getting old (or simply bad luck with genetics).. and I wasn't being sarcastic either about a hair loss cure either, just look into the culturing and 'cloning' of dermal papilla and epithelial cells that has grown hair follicles which can be grown in vitro. So yeah, baldness cure on the horizon.. he's definitely got a better shot at that, lol.

[Prometheus]

I've got a receded hairline as well actually. No shame in it, it's part of getting old (or simply bad luck with genetics).. and I wasn't being sarcastic either about a hair loss cure either, just look into the culturing and 'cloning' of dermal papilla and epithelial cells that has grown hair follicles which can be grown in vitro. So yeah, baldness cure on the horizon.. he's definitely got a better shot at that, lol.

I have LeBron's receding hairline, but my head is also shaped in the same odd way that Durant's is, like it kind of dips in the middle and then gets taller in the back. I'm basically a combination of the two best basketball players in the world.

Of course, below the cranium I'm a 5'9" relatively-unathletic 26-year-old white guy, so I'm not sure how much it's worth.

[STATUTORY]

I have LeBron's receding hairline, but my head is also shaped in the same odd way that Durant's is, like it kind of dips in the middle and then gets taller in the back. I'm basically a combination of the two best basketball players in the world.

Of course, below the cranium I'm a 5'9" relatively-unathletic 26-year-old white guy, so I'm not sure how much it's worth.

what about below the waist tho? inquiring stans wanna kno

[kamil]

I have LeBron's receding hairline, but my head is also shaped in the same odd way that Durant's is, like it kind of dips in the middle and then gets taller in the back. I'm basically a combination of the two best basketball players in the world.

Of course, below the cranium I'm a 5'9" relatively-unathletic 26-year-old white guy, so I'm not sure how much it's worth.

Damn near all men experience hair loss, so you shouldn't stress about going through the condition, (actually called androgenic alopecia, hence genetic). You should be more worried about d!ckheads like hoopsfannumero1 thinking its socially acceptable to publicly humiliate people with hair loss. That's where the real problem is. But anyway, just keep it short for now, try not let it bother you, disregard social perception of male baldness and keep an eye out on Dr. Colin Jahoda's work with cloning hair follicle stem cells if it really bothers you that much. PM me if you got other questions.

MJ went fully bald in his twenties... that didn't stop him from having ELITE mentality though like the world has never seen. It's too bad the media keeps sh!tting all over LeBron* about it and making him insecure about his physical appearance.

[Prometheus]

what about below the waist tho? inquiring stans wanna kno

three-legged

[SHABBA]

He's got a better shot at getting a male pattern baldness cure for his receding hairline than being GOAT.
:lebronamazed:

[Prometheus]

Damn near all men experience hair loss, so you shouldn't stress about going through the condition, (actually called androgenic alopecia, hence genetic). You should be more worried about d!ckheads like hoopsfannumero1 thinking its socially acceptable to publicly humiliate people with hair loss. That's where the real problem is. But anyway, just keep it short for now, try not let it bother you, disregard social perception of male baldness and keep an eye out on Dr. Colin Jahoda's work with cloning hair follicle stem cells if it really bothers you that much. PM me if you got other questions.

MJ went fully bald in his twenties... that didn't stop him from having ELITE mentality though like the world has never seen. It's too bad the media keeps sh!tting all over LeBron* about it and making him insecure about his physical appearance.

This conversation has me :lol for some reason. If it really bothered me I wouldn't bring it up. And rather than trim it short, I'm actually just growing both my hair and beard (which is thick and mighty) super long.

LeBron deserves to be made fun of for his baldness, just because he brings it on himself by oh-so-conspicuously trying too hard to hide it. His facial hair game is on point though. He can work a variety of looks.

[kamil]

This conversation has me :lol for some reason. If it really bothered me I wouldn't bring it up. And rather than trim it short, I'm actually just growing both my hair and beard (which is thick and mighty) super long.

LeBron deserves to be made fun of for his baldness, just because he brings it on himself by oh-so-conspicuously trying too hard to hide it. His facial hair game is on point though. He can work a variety of looks.

There was one segment where Kenny Smith, Barkley, Shaq, Webber were all laughing at LeBron*s hairline... that's pretty embarrassing no matter who you are, but Kenny did point out some truth: he said the trick is to keep it short. But yeah, I agree with you, facial hair helps. Unfortunately for me, I cant grow more than a goatee and a few scattered hairs on the sides and thats it. Seems like the hair from my hairline ran away and didn't go anywhere else... well, my pubes are a jungle, perhaps thats where it all went? LOL

[rhowen4]

There was one segment where Kenny Smith, Barkley, Shaq, Webber were all laughing at LeBron*s hairline... that's pretty embarrassing no matter who you are, but Kenny did point out some truth: he said the trick is to keep it short. But yeah, I agree with you, facial hair helps. Unfortunately for me, I cant grow more than a goatee and a few scattered hairs on the sides and thats it. Seems like the hair from my hairline ran away and didn't go anywhere else... well, my pubes are a jungle, perhaps thats where it all went? LOL
whoa easy there

please share more ;)

[All Net]

suppose win 4 more titles..which is a tough task given his age.

[Cold soul]

That ship has sailed, and there is nothing LBJ can do about it anymore. He can continue climbing on All-time list though.

This.

[20Four]

Being outperformed by role players doesn't help....lmao :roll:

[Brokenbeat]

This conversation has me :lol for some reason. If it really bothered me I wouldn't bring it up. And rather than trim it short, I'm actually just growing both my hair and beard (which is thick and mighty) super long.

LeBron deserves to be made fun of for his baldness, just because he brings it on himself by oh-so-conspicuously trying too hard to hide it. His facial hair game is on point though. He can work a variety of looks.

Cuz dude is ass-ugly. Anything that covers his face is an improvement.

[3LiftHeatCurse]

He needs a time machine to undo his career, because up to this point, it's not as good as His Airness' career.

[pauk]

What does Lebron have to do to make him the GOAT in your mind?

6 championships with 6 Finals MVPS? More than that?
5 MVPs? More than that?

I personally would want to see 6 FMVPs with 6 chips, 5-6 MVPs, 1 DPOY, 15+ all star appearances, 30,000 points, 10,000 assists, 10,000 rebounds, 12+ all-NBA first team, 10+ all-nba defensive team.

That should pretty much do it, was thinking he would need 1 more fmvp/ring or mvp than MJ but then again with more of essentially everything else instead it should be enough...

PS: Lebron will have over 30000 points in about just 3 seasons, max 4... he will end up with MUCH more than that...

[swagga]

a better servant imo, wade gettin old and bosh serves in non-basketball related ways.

[Psileas]

GOAT is basically a matter of opinion. So all he needs is a few more accomplishments (i.e. MVPs, rings), and a new generation of fans who view MJ the way fans of the MJ generation view Russell, Wilt, and Kareem.

+1
Be it LeBron or Durant or someone else who enters the GOAT discussions, as years go by, it's almost certain that Jordan's accomplishments will start taking a hit by an increasing number of younger and Jordan-ignorant fans, the same way generations after Wilt-Russell-Kareem-Magic viewed/view their own accomplishments. Maybe not to the same degree, because there is more video archive available for Jordan, but blind faith that "what I viewed = best" will definitely perform its miracles again.
Heck, we've seen young Kobe fans who had started doing so years ago (make a "who's the GOAT" poll among young fans and Kobe will likely finish top-2 in number of votes), and Kobe's potential ceiling isn't as high as someone like LeBron.

[BlazerRed]

suppose win 4 more titles..which is a tough task given his age.
No way that gets him anywhere close. That would be even with MJ, who was 6 of 6. Leflop has choked twice, once being the biggest choke job in history in the 2011 finals.

That shit doesn't just go away, he would need to make up for them. Also quitting on his home team which is promised a ring to join 2 other top 10 players also knocks him down.

His ceiling IMO is fifth.. which I think is achievable with a few more rings and FMVP. I think a more likely outcome is 6-8.