KD & LeBron first 7 seasons of their careers [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

aj1987

03-21-2014, 03:28 AM

Regular Season

Durant: 27.2 PPG 6.9 RPG 3.4 APG 1.3 SPG 1.0 BPG 3.2 TOV's on 47.9/37.8/88.2 (59.9% TS) in 527 total games played with 527 starts.

LeBron: 27.8 PPG 7.0 RPG 7.0 APG 1.7 SPG 0.9 BPG 3.3 TOV's on 47.5/32.9/74.2 (56.2% TS) in 548 total games played with 547 starts.

Bryant: 21.5 PPG 5.0 RPG 4.2 APG 1.4 SPG 0.6 BPG 2.7 TOV's on 45.6/33.2/83.1 (54.8% TS) in 496 total games played with 349 starts.

Wade: 25.4 PPG 4.9 RPG 6.6 APG 1.8 SPG 1.0 BPG 3.7 TOV's on 48.2/28.9/77.0 (56.5% TS) in 471 total games played with 463 starts.

Playoffs

Durant: 28.6 PPG 8.0 RPG 3.8 APG 1.1 SPG 1.2 BPG 3.1 TOV's on 46.3/34.0/84.8 (58.8% TS) in 54 total games played.

LeBron: 29.3 PPG 8.4 RPG 7.3 APG 1.6 SPG 1.0 BPG 3.7 TOV's on 45.9/31.6/74.3 (56.1% TS) in 71 total games played.

Bryant: 22.2 PPG 4.9 RPG 4.2 APG 1.2 SPG 0.8 BPG 2.7 TOV's on 43.9/34.9/78.6 (55.1% TS) in 97 total games played with 77 starts.

Wade: 26.3 PPG 5.3 RPG 6.0 APG 1.7 SPG 1.0 BPG 4.2 TOV's on 48.2/34.7/79.3 (57.1% TS) in 66 total games played.

Awards and Championships

Durant: 1x MVP*, 5x All-Star, 1x ASG MVP, 5x All-NBA First Team*, ROY, and 4x Scoring Champ*

LeBron: 2x MVP, 6x All-Star, 2x ASG MVP, 4x All-NBA First Team, 2x All-NBA Second Team, 2x All-Defensive First Team, ROY, and 1x Scoring Champ

Bryant: 3x NBA Champ, 5x All-Star, 1x ASG MVP, 2x All-NBA First Team, 2x All-NBA Second Team, 1x All-NBA Third Team 2x All-Defensive First Team, 2x All-Defensive Second Team

Wade: 1x NBA Champ, 1x FMVP, 6x All-Star 1x ASG MVP, 2x All-NBA First Team, 2x All-NBA Second Team, 1x All-NBA Third Team, 3x All-Defensive Second Team, 1x Scoring Champ

* - Assuming that he wins the MVP, gets selected to the All-NBA First team, and wins the scoring title, which he most likely will.

EDIT: Added Kobe's first 7 seasons as well, since some people can't stop themselves from bringing him up in this thread.

navy

03-21-2014, 03:31 AM

Kobe > Both
Bait

moe94

03-21-2014, 03:36 AM

LeBron >

maroonbells

03-21-2014, 03:37 AM

Interesting. Really shows you what level KD is on. He's quite comparable across the board (besides assists), except Lebron started at a higher level straight away obviously (just about the best rookie we've seen), whereas KD has made huge improvements in his game every year to get to the level he's at now.. especially with huge jumps in assist numbers and defense.

Really great to have these two amazing players at the same time. Hopefully now KD has had his growing time we'll see these two in a close battle in the finals :rockon:

Big#50

03-21-2014, 03:44 AM

Lebron is the far superior player. It's obvious.

ImKobe

03-21-2014, 03:58 AM

Kobe in first 7 seasons: 3x NBA Champion

ether

Milbuck

03-21-2014, 03:59 AM

:wtf: Lebron's playoff numbers...

JohnFreeman

03-21-2014, 04:07 AM

LeBrons playoff numbers :eek: :eek:

Random_Guy

03-21-2014, 04:16 AM

aj1987

03-21-2014, 04:48 AM

Added Kobe's first 7 season.

russwest0

03-21-2014, 04:53 AM

Kobe > Durant > LeBron

Very close though. Good shit AJ. Surprised we didn't see Wade's stats too but oh well.

aj1987

03-21-2014, 05:16 AM

Kobe > Durant > LeBron
:oldlol:

Good one.

Very close though. Good shit AJ. Surprised we didn't see Wade's stats too but oh well.
Added Wade as well.

maroonbells

03-21-2014, 05:20 AM

KD is a phenomenal player but comon guys, lets not act like the two was close in their first five years. Is KD playing better than bron this year? Yes, and IMO he should win the MVP. But the first five years just weren;t that close.
On a quick glance it seems that the only major difference is the assists, but people underrate how big that difference is. The whole offence of the cavs ran through bran, and he handled the rock most of the time. To be able to score even more than KD even though he dishes out nearly 4 more assists is just crazy. Not to mention that Lebron had worse teammates and played better defense.
edit:seven years

What Lebron was able to do in his first few years was insane. Obviously Lebron was more dominant in his first 7 years overall than Durant's first 7, but Durant, I think anyway, has made so many improvements to his game that by the 7th year I think he is better than Lebron at his 7th, At the very least he's equal.

Dude put up numbers last year that only Bird has ever done, and this year he's at 32/7.5/6 on near 50/40/90 again. Insane.

Really hope these two get another shot at the finals this year.

talkingconch

03-21-2014, 05:55 AM

kobe wasnt in the top 5 picks in the draft. his first couple seasons arent the same

Artillery

03-21-2014, 06:02 AM

Not surprisingly, Kobe's numbers are the worst of the lot.

Random_Guy

03-21-2014, 06:31 AM

What Lebron was able to do in his first few years was insane. Obviously Lebron was more dominant in his first 7 years overall than Durant's first 7, but Durant, I think anyway, has made so many improvements to his game that by the 7th year I think he is better than Lebron at his 7th, At the very least he's equal.

Dude put up numbers last year that only Bird has ever done, and this year he's at 32/7.5/6 on near 50/40/90 again. Insane.

Really hope these two get another shot at the finals this year.
I don't think they are equal in their 7th year, but I think the gap has marginally closed that one could be better than the other on any given night. And yes I hope for a finals matchup :cheers:

aj1987

03-21-2014, 03:34 PM

J Shuttlesworth

03-21-2014, 03:47 PM

No surprise to me. Literally the only thing better about KD than LeBron is his shooting ability, but he's not a better scorer than LeBron.

Suguru101

03-21-2014, 03:48 PM

7th year Durant is a better player than 2010 LeBron. LeBron was on and off from midrange, didn't have a good post game and was not dependable from 3. He was flat out better defensively and was a better playmaker though, but Durant's offense seals it. LeBron's physical game and his driving ability was amazing in the RS, but in the playoffs he just didn't disrupt offenses enough to win it all.

Durant has yet to come close to LeBron's 2012-2013 playoff form though, but it's understandable given that the run LeBron has had in the playoffs since 2012 is probably only second to Jordan by a perimeter player. I can't wait to see what LeBron does in this years playoffs, it seems he just doesn't bring the full effort in the RS anymore, like 2010 Kobe who then proceeded to explode in the post season.

J Shuttlesworth

03-21-2014, 03:49 PM

I don't think they are equal in their 7th year, but I think the gap has marginally closed that one could be better than the other on any given night. And yes I hope for a finals matchup :cheers:
Exactly. It's very similar to what happened with Kobe when LeBron started coming up. LeBron was statistically a greater player, but didn't have the hardware to say his career > Kobe's. Now, Durant is currently a statistically greater player this season, but he doesn't have the hardware to say his career > Bron's.

TheMarkMadsen

03-21-2014, 03:52 PM

what are Kobe's #s for his first 7 years as a starter?

seeing as he was basically the first perimeter player to come out of HS and was drafted to a team with 2 all star guards

LongLiveTheKing

03-21-2014, 03:58 PM

Kobe's numbers are so bad :roll: :roll:
He wasn't good enough to start his rookie year :lol

aj1987

03-21-2014, 04:00 PM

7th year Durant is a better player than 2010 LeBron, not by much but he is indeed better. 2010 LeBron was on and off from midrange, didn't have a good post game and was not dependable from 3. He was flat out better defensively and was a better playmaker though, but Durant's offense seals it. LeBron's physical game and his driving ability was amazing in the RS, but in the playoffs he just didn't disrupt offenses enough to win it all.
'10 LeBron scored 30 points a game on 60% TS (KD's at 32 on 64% TS), while still getting almost 9 assists a game. In the Playoffs, he averaged 29/9/8/2/2 on 61% TS. Considering LeBron was also MUCH better defensively, I'd take '10 LeBron over '14 Durant any day.

Haymaker

03-21-2014, 04:13 PM

Really great to have these two amazing players at the same time. Hopefully now KD has had his growing time we'll see these two in a close battle in the finals :rockon:

:applause:

Suguru101

03-21-2014, 04:17 PM

'10 LeBron scored 30 points a game on 60% TS (KD's at 32 on 64% TS), while still getting almost 9 assists a game. In the Playoffs, he averaged 29/9/8/2/2 on 61% TS. Considering LeBron was also MUCH better defensively, I'd take '10 LeBron over '14 Durant any day.

LeBron put up seemingly very good numbers in the playoffs, but LeBron wasn't a disruptive enough offensive player to win series against Elite defensive teams. Why? Because LeBron's game depended on driving, and depended on his jumper being on that night. LeBron's jumper wasn't on consistently enough to beat a team like the Celtics or even the 2009 Magic.

Now, his stats will tell you that he scored enough to win, but in the playoffs its just not about scoring, it's about the threat of scoring, what you can do offensively and how it disrupts the other team's offense to make your team get better looks.

LeBron in 2010 was defended by Boston one on one in the perimeter and given space to shoot, and when he drove he was met by the Celtic's big men double teaming him. LeBron was so good at finishing and driving, and was ok enough shooting that he put up 26 points, but he wasn't a big enough threat from different areas to open up the game for his team.

How would the 2010 Celtics defend Durant? They would need to close up on him starting from the 3-point line, double on drives and also shade him with another defender any time he was under the 3-points line even though he wasn't on a position to drive because of Durant's mid-range and 3-point shooting prowess.

Durant could average the same 26 points LeBron did in that series but he would be opening up much more opportunities for his team because of the way he disrupts a team's defense with his shooting ability. That is the reason Kobe won titles in 2009-2010 while LeBron couldn't get over the hump(though the lack of a legit second option played a big part) in the playoffs. Being an elite driver and an ok shooter can get you wins in the RS, but in the playoffs? No. LeBron needed to have another skill apart from driving to fully disrupt an opponents defense. He found in in the post up game in 2012, and that is when LeBron became a top 10 player.

oh the horror

03-21-2014, 04:19 PM

Not surprisingly, Kobe's numbers are the worst of the lot.

Keep in mind however that he was accompanied by Shaq.

Although KD and Lebron are superior Kobe's numbers would look different.

scm5

03-21-2014, 04:29 PM

Kobe's numbers are so bad :roll: :roll:
He wasn't good enough to start his rookie year :lol

I honestly don't even see how this is a knock on Kobe. Every knowledgeable poster knows that Kobe didn't come into the league ready to dominate. He was a skinny kid with above average athleticism and he was still able to play alongside grown men. He was playing behind EJ who was an All-Star that season.

If anything, this is one of the reasons I loved watching Kobe. He is so determined and such a hard worker that he went from a rookie season of putting up 7/2/1 to being considered one of the Top 10 Players to ever lace them up. Great story, from the airballs in Utah to the blown achilles, I've enjoyed every moment of his career.

Meanwhile, Lebron was given every advantage of being blessed with what's most likely the closest thing we've seen to a perfect NBA body and two star players.

brb easy mode
brb still choke
brb rondo is defending me, i'll just be a second
brb defended by barea
brb locked down by diaw
brb lose to Dirk and friends when I have Wade and Bosh
brb one rebound away from not winning second title with Wade/Bosh/Allen

I actually like Lebron's game, but I don't like how his supporters prop him up as a challenger to MJ's crown. MJ would wreck him as he would Kobe, but at least Kobe wouldn't look like a deer caught in headlights.

LongLiveTheKing

03-21-2014, 04:53 PM

I honestly don't even see how this is a knock on Kobe. Every knowledgeable poster knows that Kobe didn't come into the league ready to dominate. He was a skinny kid with above average athleticism and he was still able to play alongside grown men. He was playing behind EJ who was an All-Star that season.

If anything, this is one of the reasons I loved watching Kobe. He is so determined and such a hard worker that he went from a rookie season of putting up 7/2/1 to being considered one of the Top 10 Players to ever lace them up. Great story, from the airballs in Utah to the blown achilles, I've enjoyed every moment of his career.

Meanwhile, Lebron was given every advantage of being blessed with what's most likely the closest thing we've seen to a perfect NBA body and two star players.

brb easy mode
brb still choke
brb rondo is defending me, i'll just be a second
brb defended by barea
brb locked down by diaw
brb lose to Dirk and friends when I have Wade and Bosh
brb one rebound away from not winning second title with Wade/Bosh/Allen

I actually like Lebron's game, but I don't like how his supporters prop him up as a challenger to MJ's crown. MJ would wreck him as he would Kobe, but at least Kobe wouldn't look like a deer caught in headlights.
LeBron didn't have 2 stars in Cleveland. Kobe just wasn't as good as Lebron, D-wade, or KD in his early years. :roll:

aj1987

03-21-2014, 04:54 PM

LeBron put up seemingly very good numbers in the playoffs, but LeBron wasn't a disruptive enough offensive player to win series against Elite defensive teams. Why? Because LeBron's game depended on driving, and depended on his jumper being on that night. LeBron's jumper wasn't on consistently enough to beat a team like the Celtics or even the 2009 Magic.

Now, his stats will tell you that he scored enough to win, but in the playoffs its just not about scoring, it's about the threat of scoring, what you can do offensively and how it disrupts the other team's offense to make your team get better looks.

LeBron in 2010 was defended by Boston one on one in the perimeter and given space to shoot, and when he drove he was met by the Celtic's big men double teaming him. LeBron was so good at finishing and driving, and was ok enough shooting that he put up 26 points, but he wasn't a big enough threat from different areas to open up the game for his team.

How would the 2010 Celtics defend Durant? They would need to close up on him starting from the 3-point line, double on drives and also shade him with another defender any time he was under the 3-points line even though he wasn't on a position to drive because of Durant's mid-range and 3-point shooting prowess.

Durant could average the same 26 points LeBron did in that series but he would be opening up much more opportunities for his team because of the way he disrupts a team's defense with his shooting ability. That is the reason Kobe won titles in 2009-2010 while LeBron couldn't get over the hump(though the lack of a legit second option played a big part) in the playoffs. Being an elite driver and an ok shooter can get you wins in the RS, but in the playoffs? No. LeBron needed to have another skill apart from driving to fully disrupt an opponents defense. He found in in the post up game in 2012, and that is when LeBron became a top 10 player.

LeBron shot 20% in the '12 playoffs on jumpers and his team still won. His post game wasn't any good either. Remember all the threads from trolls about him having a shitty post game? So, why did he win in '12 and not '09 and '10? His teammates. I could post so many stats about how much his teammates choked in the Playoffs and how LeBron led his team in nearly every statistical category, but it has already been done to death.

The Cavaliers didn't have anyone to help LeBron. To take a bit of defensive pressure off of him. You saw how KD performed in the Playoffs last season? Dude had a wet jumper and still couldn't beat the Grizzlies. He didn't have a legit second scorer. A player who could command a bit of defensive attention, so KD could do his thing. Would be no different if he played the Celtics. IMO, LeBeon was more devastating because of his passing. If only his teammates could've hit the numerous open looks that he got them.

The Celtics and Magic collapsed onto LeBron, whenever he tried to drive. A number of times he passed the ball to open teammates, who usually bricked their shots. You seriously can't expect a player (any player, as a matter of fact) to win with Mo Williams, West, 38 year old Shaq, a washed up Jamison, Anthony Parker (LOL!), etc. as your teammates. Kobe wouldn't have won with them and KD wouldn't have either.

Kobe won because he's Kobe and also because he had a bunch of other great players around him. Gasol and Odom were great. Relative to the competition, Kobe had, by far, the best frontline in the league.

zoom17

03-21-2014, 04:59 PM

Great thread OP:cheers:

moe94

03-21-2014, 05:00 PM

LeBron didn't have 2 stars in Cleveland. Kobe just wasn't as good as Lebron, D-wade, or KD in his early years. :roll:

Cleveland LeBron so forgotten. :(

LongLiveTheKing

03-21-2014, 05:05 PM

Cleveland LeBron so forgotten. :(
D-Wade in his early years is too. Both had bad teams early on minus Shaq with the Heat.

Suguru101

03-21-2014, 05:23 PM

LeBron shot 20% in the '12 playoffs on jumpers and his team still won. His post game wasn't any good either. Remember all the threads from trolls about him having a shitty post game? So, why did he win in '12 and not '09 and '10? His teammates. I could post so many stats about how much his teammates choked in the Playoffs and how LeBron led his team in nearly every statistical category, but it has already been done to death.

The Cavaliers didn't have anyone to help LeBron. To take a bit of defensive pressure off of him. You saw how KD performed in the Playoffs last season? Dude had a wet jumper and still couldn't beat the Grizzlies. He didn't have a legit second scorer. A player who could command a bit of defensive attention, so KD could do his thing. Would be no different if he played the Celtics. IMO, LeBeon was more devastating because of his passing. If only his teammates could've hit the numerous open looks that he got them.

The Celtics and Magic collapsed onto LeBron, whenever he tried to drive. A number of times he passed the ball to open teammates, who usually bricked their shots. You seriously can't expect a player (any player, as a matter of fact) to win with Mo Williams, West, 38 year old Shaq, a washed up Jamison, Anthony Parker (LOL!), etc. as your teammates. Kobe wouldn't have won with them and KD wouldn't have either.

Kobe won because he's Kobe and also because he had a bunch of other great players around him. Gasol and Odom were great. Relative to the competition, Kobe had, by far, the best frontline in the league.

:biggums: :biggums: :biggums:

LeBron's post game wasn't any good? Which games were you watching that year? And you are basing it off on trolls saying LeBron had a shitt* post game because it wasn't aesthetically pleasing? Wow..

LeBron's post game altered the entire series because it changed how LeBron had to be defended and how his teammates had to be guarded.

LeBron's teammates weren't very good in Cleveland compared to Miami, i know, but those Cavs teams were good enough to get to the Finals, they weren't trash either. LeBron just wasn't a complete offensive player back then.

aj1987

03-21-2014, 07:31 PM

LeBron's post game wasn't any good? Which games were you watching that year? And you are basing it off on trolls saying LeBron had a shitt* post game because it wasn't aesthetically pleasing? Wow..

LeBron's post game altered the entire series because it changed how LeBron had to be defended and how his teammates had to be guarded.

I'm specifically talking about the '12 Finals. LeBron scored most of his posts by driving and attacking the basket. OKC's defenses started collapsing onto LeBron, as soon as he started to attack the basket and he would kick it out to open shooters.

Watch this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kq8JClcZAFM). There are two examples of that in there. See how 2-3 OKC defenders immediately converge upon LeBron, leaving 1 or 2 Heat players open? I could do a complete breakdown of all his shots and assists, which would show that he was doing it like I said above, but it would take forever and I don't have the time. You can download the '12 Finals and rematch them

He shot 25% outside of the RA, BTW. Not 20%. My mistake.

LeBron's teammates weren't very good in Cleveland compared to Miami, i know, but those Cavs teams were good enough to get to the Finals, they weren't trash either. LeBron just wasn't a complete offensive player back then.
Oh god. You're making me do this again.

Lets take a look at the Magic and Celtics series. First, the Magic series in '09.

LeBron had one of the greatest series of all time, in a losing effort. Dude averaged 39/8/8 on 59% TS.

His teammates?
Mo Williams - 18/4/4 on 50% TS (37.1% FG%)
West - 15/3/3 on 52% TS
Ilgauskas - 10 on 49% TS

They were absolutely horrific. LeBron would've easily averaged double digits in assists, if it wasn't for his scrubby teammates missing open shots. LeBron led his team in points, assists, block, efficiency, and almost led the team in blocks and rebounds as well. Again, this is the same team that Kobe won against, while playing worse than LeBron did.

How can you not hold his teammates accountable for the loss? Dude was flat out besting and his teammates sucked balls.

Lets take a look at his shot chart.

http://i.imgur.com/gbxpnFy.png

Dude was really good from midrange. It's not like he stunk it up from midrange and that's the reason they lost.

2010 Celtics vs Cavs. The series in which LeBron apparently "quit" on his team.
First of all, the Cavs' second best player this series was a 37 year old Shaq. Dude averaged 14/5. That was his second best player. A guys who scored most of his points off of assists from LeBron. A guy who couldn't even play defense at that point of his career. The rest?
Mo Williams - 13/4/6 on 52% TS
Jamison - 12/7 on 48% TS
Anthony Parker, West, and the rest sucked ass as well. Seriously, how can this team beat a team of KG, Pierce, Allen, and Rondo?

LeBron still was able to score 27/9/7/2/1 on 56% TS. LeBron's shot wasn't all that good in this series, but his teammates sucking hard was what done them in.

His shot chart against the Celtics:

http://i.imgur.com/dWZn2Xy.png

Once again, how could he have won if his teammates were that bad? Even KD and Kobe wouldn't be able to do it with LeBron's Cav's teammates.

che guevara

03-21-2014, 08:02 PM

:biggums: :biggums: :biggums:

LeBron's post game wasn't any good? Which games were you watching that year? And you are basing it off on trolls saying LeBron had a shitt* post game because it wasn't aesthetically pleasing? Wow..

LeBron's post game altered the entire series because it changed how LeBron had to be defended and how his teammates had to be guarded.

LeBron's teammates weren't very good in Cleveland compared to Miami, i know, but those Cavs teams were good enough to get to the Finals, they weren't trash either. LeBron just wasn't a complete offensive player back then.
Is there anything more overrated than 2012 Lebron's "post game"? He has a legit post game now, in 2014, but two years ago it consisted of fadeaway jumpers and almost nothing else. He was getting single coverage in the post so often against the '12 Celtics because they were thrilled to see him shoot low % fadeaways from there. The Thunder stupidly doubled him nearly every time he posted up, which resulted in open shot after open shot for his teammates.

Go back and watch the 2010 Celtics series and then watch the 2011 and 2012 series, it's a joke how much more attention he was getting in '10 - and this has nothing at all to do with Lebron, and everything to do with the fact that it's a ****load easier to defend Mo Williams, 895 year old Shaq, and Jamison than Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh.

Lebron in 2010 was flat out a better offensive player than he as in 2012 - quite a bit more athletic (and as a result a far superior driver and finisher) AND a better shooter than he was in the '12 playoffs (he was shooting a putrid % outside of the restricted area against the '12 Celtcs, the lone game where he wasn't sucking ass with his jumper was game 6). The lone advantage '12 Bron had was his post game, which at that point was just a decoy, hoping teams would double him so he could hit open 3 point shooters. That worked against teams with stupid coaches like Scott Brooks and the Thunder, but against smart teams like the Celtics, they were happy to see him try to score in the post.

Lebron winning against the '12 Celtics while he lost in '10 had everything to do with his team dynamic and nothing to do with Lebron himself. '12 Lebron isn't doing any better if he was on the '10 Cavs.

Keno

03-21-2014, 08:16 PM

lebron numbers are out of this world. all around crazy numbers. look like nba2k my player numbers.

aj1987

03-23-2014, 07:28 AM

lebron numbers are out of this world. all around crazy numbers. look like nba2k my player numbers.
True. His 11 year career average as well. 28/7/7 on 58% TS? :eek:

russwest0

03-23-2014, 07:52 AM

The way OKC defended LeBron in the 2012 Finals was completely retarded. I knew they were ****ed when I saw Serge Ibaka switching onto him and covering him out to the 3pt line. He shot 20% on all jumpers in that series and still had a pretty good series scoring wise.

I want OKC to win the chip this year but at the same time it just means more Scott Brooks. Tired of seeing Durant bail his ass out every night.

DMAVS41

03-23-2014, 08:13 AM

Is there anything more overrated than 2012 Lebron's "post game"? He has a legit post game now, in 2014, but two years ago it consisted of fadeaway jumpers and almost nothing else. He was getting single coverage in the post so often against the '12 Celtics because they were thrilled to see him shoot low % fadeaways from there. The Thunder stupidly doubled him nearly every time he posted up, which resulted in open shot after open shot for his teammates.

Go back and watch the 2010 Celtics series and then watch the 2011 and 2012 series, it's a joke how much more attention he was getting in '10 - and this has nothing at all to do with Lebron, and everything to do with the fact that it's a ****load easier to defend Mo Williams, 895 year old Shaq, and Jamison than Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh.

Lebron in 2010 was flat out a better offensive player than he as in 2012 - quite a bit more athletic (and as a result a far superior driver and finisher) AND a better shooter than he was in the '12 playoffs (he was shooting a putrid % outside of the restricted area against the '12 Celtcs, the lone game where he wasn't sucking ass with his jumper was game 6). The lone advantage '12 Bron had was his post game, which at that point was just a decoy, hoping teams would double him so he could hit open 3 point shooters. That worked against teams with stupid coaches like Scott Brooks and the Thunder, but against smart teams like the Celtics, they were happy to see him try to score in the post.

Lebron winning against the '12 Celtics while he lost in '10 had everything to do with his team dynamic and nothing to do with Lebron himself. '12 Lebron isn't doing any better if he was on the '10 Cavs.

I think Lebron has improved overall as a players from 09 until now, but it's marginal...and I kind of fell for that notion a bit as well.

Why is everyone forgetting that we just saw Lebron shoot horribly in the finals through the first 5.75 games????

Lebron was shooting 40.7% fg and 49% TS through the first 5 games and 3 qtrs of game 6 against the Spurs. The Spurs were doing to Lebron exactly what the Mavs did in 11. There was no dramatic improvement in Lebron's game from year to year like people said. Again, I fell for it a bit as well. Lebron's jumper is still broke when it comes to how certain teams defend or he feels pressure.

We have to give him credit for game 7, but the truth is that if Ray Allen misses that shot in game 6...we are debating which giant pile of shit was worse for Lebron...the 11 finals or 13 finals.

I've defended Lebron for years on here and he's definitely going to be battling for top 5 all time, but he has a legit flaw in his game that doesn't seem to ever be going away. He can't consistently score in the half court when teams defend him in a way that forces jumpers. It's not easy and only a handful of teams can do it since he's been in the league, but it's a big enough flaw that it already cost him a title in 11 and lets be honest...should have in 13 if not for a ton of "luck"...as Lebron himself rightly admitted.

edrick

03-23-2014, 08:18 AM

Anyone that thinks Lebron had a good post game in the past has a bad memory. Lebron had no idea what to do if he caught the ball down there. It was awful. But, people also forget how much he dominated even though his second best options were Mo Williams, Old man Shaq, Larry ****ing Hughes. :facepalm Big Z was really just a lesser Chris Bosh, because of his bad feet, neither can stop other bigs from scoring. There was rarely a reason for defenses not to collapse on Lebron in the paint, not only because he teammates were missing wide open jumpers, but also because he would score over 1 or 2 defenders in the paint if defenses didn't collapse.

russwest0

03-23-2014, 08:19 AM

All I pretty much remember from LeBron in the 2012 Finals, and playoff run in general was him lowering his head, barreling into the lane and stiff arming any defender near him and then hearing the whistle and throwing the ball up and going to the FT line.

Never hated LeBron before that playoff run. Never cared that he left Cleveland for Miami. Never cared about his shortcomings vs the Mavs and their great gameplan, or anything like that. You saw almost no skill from LeBron in the 2012 Finals. No artistry. I get it, it's where the league is at today. Shit just didn't feel like basketball to me. He wasn't even playing good defense either. When on Durant or Westbrook he got torched. He was just able to hide behind guys like Perkins because Scott Brooks is a ****ing inept moron. Durant held him to 9-27 shooting but didn't even get to guard him that much because the refs were going apeshit with the whistle for LeBron that year. The NBA wouldn't even let us watch two stars go at it like Durant wanted. (And while LeBron wanted to hide on D vs Perkins).

As a basketball fan it's just hard for me to see so many teams COMMIT to double teaming Durant everytime he touches the ball and still watch him effortlessly put up 30PPG, and then on the other end watch LeBron almost NEVER get double teamed and consider LeBron the better player. Can't think of any other great perimeter player in recent history who the scouting report for at the highest level, was just "put Boris Diaw/DeShawn Stephenson on him and leave him wide open with room to shoot."

iznogood

03-23-2014, 08:43 AM

I want OKC to win the chip this year but at the same time it just means more Scott Brooks. Tired of seeing Durant bail his ass out every night.
This.

russwest0

03-23-2014, 08:56 AM

This.

Just watched the Spurs vs the Warriors and the shit was unbelivable. The Warriors essentially run the same offense as OKC, which is "Go out there and play!" Difference is they don't have Kevin Durant to pull that shit off every night. Watching the Spurs without two of their stars, set into an offense everytime, work the ball around if nothing is open, constantly move off ball FOR A REASON (and not just aimlessly) and get the highest percentage look possible. Shit was a thing of beauty.

Caught my self dreaming at OKC even having ERIC ****ing SPOELSTRA just to have something even resembling an offense. And DEFENSE? Shit, just watched that Mark Cuban on First Take video with him talking about the basics of a zone defense, and felt like even that dude could gameplan a better defense than Scott Brooks, who's defensive mentality is basically "Guard your man and take individual pride!"

It truly is amazing that OKC is where they are at right now in terms of being a true contender with this jackass of a coach. They have a young GM that's cracked the ****ing code and found the formula to draft a talented player every year, but there doesn't appear to be a set plan in place nor a certain respect to team composition. Just stockpiling these talented ****ing goons with elite height and 8 foot long arms. For example, give OKC Pat Riley or Phil Jackson right now and they don't have Caron Butler and Derek Fisher playing the sniper role.

Watching those two shoot like 2-20 vs the Raps the other night and then watching Ray Allen come up huge for Miami was ****ing irritating. That look on KD's face after he drilled the game winning 3 pointer, playing 52 minutes on a b2b was basically like "Let's get the **** out of here. I'm done with this shit."

ImKobe

03-23-2014, 09:04 AM

Bigsmoke

03-23-2014, 09:07 AM

Kobe garbage

aj1987

03-23-2014, 09:18 AM

russwest0

03-23-2014, 09:20 AM

Kobe is a classic player you can use to separate the box score watchers from the game watchers. It's great. I love it.

Jameerthefear

03-23-2014, 09:28 AM

DMAVS41

03-23-2014, 09:33 AM

Kobe's overall numbers pale in comparison because he started off as a bench warmer due to being drafted at 17 years old, he flew under the radar as far as his draft stock was concerned, he was the youngest player to come out of the draft & not many teams were willing to draft him because though he had a lot of potential, he was too young. As a player, Kobe was already one of the best at a very young age, but he had to earn his stripes first.

2001 Kobe > any version of KD, Wade or Lebron in their first 7 seasons.

2001 Kobe matched prime Shaq number for number in the Playoffs with Kobe leading the Lakers in assists & WS & Shaq leading the Lakers in rebounds & DWS with both having equal WS/48.

People say prime Shaq is the most dominant player of all-time, a 22 year old Kobe matched his production in the Playoffs in 2001, being the best player in all of first 3 series in the West with Shaq dominating a weak front court in the Finals.

I don't understand this argument.

All you are doing is admitting that Kobe was much worse than these guys over their first 7 seasons. What you are saying isn't even relevant...not to mention it's not even true. 01 Kobe was not definitively better than any version of Lebron or Durant...

This is what I don't get about Kobe fans. It's always about how he's played 18 seasons (17 really as he didn't play this year) and how much wear and tear on his body and how amazing his longevity is...etc.

But then something like this comes up and Kobe fans talk about how Kobe didn't even start until his 3rd year and wasn't really truly Kobe until 01. Well, 01 was his ****ing 5th year in the league.

So I don't get it. You appeal to his longevity to rank him, but then you talk about how he was a bench player his first 2 years...and took until year 4 to become really good.

This is why Kobe's longevity, while still great, is seriously over-rated.

He's played 17 seasons now, again, this year doesn't count. And he spent his first 2 years as a bench player. Then got to play with Shaq for the next 6...and had to carry much less of a burden night to night over his first 8 years than a guy like Lebron did.

Lebron's longevity is already approaching Kobe's level after this year. Kobe from 00 through 13 is 14 years. Lebron already has 11 years in the bag.

Over that time Kobe played 1039 games and put up 28/6/5 56% TS

Over that time Lebron played 830 games and put up 28/7/7 58% TS

So after this year, Lebron will have played actually less than 200 less games than Kobe in terms of being a legit player...and Lebron carried a heavier burden...and has better stats in both the regular season and playoffs.

So I just think the Kobe longevity gets a bit over-rated.

Over the last 14 years...Dirk is right up there with him, but you never hear that.

Regular season

Kobe 28/6/5 55.6% TS 24.1 PER
Dirk 24/9/3 58.4% TS 24.2 PER

Playoffs

Kobe 28/5/5 54.3% TS 23.0 PER
Dirk 26/10/3 58.4% TS 24.7 PER

And Kobe played with better help over that time...even including the shit 06 and 07 teams.

When both were off the court;

Lakers were - 1.5 without Kobe during that time
Mavs were - 3.6 without Dirk during that time

Again, that isn't even including this year...

russwest0

03-23-2014, 09:35 AM

DAMMMMMMNNNN
Kobe stans on HUSH mode. Kobe Bryant has yet again been exposed as an overrated player. Those stats in comparison to other greats are just ewwwwwww. I guarantee Victor Oladipo will have better stats. Kobe stans just took a massive L.

^^^

Kobe is a classic player you can use to separate the box score watchers from the game watchers. It's great. I love it.

tpols

03-23-2014, 12:40 PM

I'm specifically talking about the '12 Finals. LeBron scored most of his posts by driving and attacking the basket. OKC's defenses started collapsing onto LeBron, as soon as he started to attack the basket and he would kick it out to open shooters.

Watch this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kq8JClcZAFM). There are two examples of that in there. See how 2-3 OKC defenders immediately converge upon LeBron, leaving 1 or 2 Heat players open? I could do a complete breakdown of all his shots and assists, which would show that he was doing it like I said above, but it would take forever and I don't have the time. You can download the '12 Finals and rematch them

He shot 25% outside of the RA, BTW. Not 20%. My mistake.

Oh god. You're making me do this again.

Lets take a look at the Magic and Celtics series. First, the Magic series in '09.

LeBron had one of the greatest series of all time, in a losing effort. Dude averaged 39/8/8 on 59% TS.

His teammates?
Mo Williams - 18/4/4 on 50% TS (37.1% FG%)
West - 15/3/3 on 52% TS
Ilgauskas - 10 on 49% TS

They were absolutely horrific. LeBron would've easily averaged double digits in assists, if it wasn't for his scrubby teammates missing open shots. LeBron led his team in points, assists, block, efficiency, and almost led the team in blocks and rebounds as well. Again, this is the same team that Kobe won against, while playing worse than LeBron did.

How can you not hold his teammates accountable for the loss? Dude was flat out besting and his teammates sucked balls.

Lets take a look at his shot chart.

http://i.imgur.com/gbxpnFy.png

Dude was really good from midrange. It's not like he stunk it up from midrange and that's the reason they lost.

2010 Celtics vs Cavs. The series in which LeBron apparently "quit" on his team.
First of all, the Cavs' second best player this series was a 37 year old Shaq. Dude averaged 14/5. That was his second best player. A guys who scored most of his points off of assists from LeBron. A guy who couldn't even play defense at that point of his career. The rest?
Mo Williams - 13/4/6 on 52% TS
Jamison - 12/7 on 48% TS
Anthony Parker, West, and the rest sucked ass as well. Seriously, how can this team beat a team of KG, Pierce, Allen, and Rondo?

LeBron still was able to score 27/9/7/2/1 on 56% TS. LeBron's shot wasn't all that good in this series, but his teammates sucking hard was what done them in.

His shot chart against the Celtics:

http://i.imgur.com/dWZn2Xy.png

Once again, how could he have won if his teammates were that bad? Even KD and Kobe wouldn't be able to do it with LeBron's Cav's teammates.

Yea and peak KD/Kobe would have very little chance of losing to the mavs in 2011, or the spurs in 2013.. two teams that dismantled lebron.

Its funny.. when you look at Lebron's stats in his losses on Cleveland, theyre amazing. He could always put up numbers while having full control of the ball. But his numbers in losses(or near losses) with the Heat go south. Because when forced to share the ball and play a synchronous game with another superstar his game gets lost.

Which is why if you were to place Lebron on the Lakers in 97 and took a count of his stats until 03 they wouldnt be nearly as gaudy as they were in Cleveland because the Lakers had a system that revolved around ball movement. Lebron wouldnt have any MVPs playing next to Shaq.. without the opportunity to play one man army, his numbers would dip across the board.. but he would have a handful of rings. It would be a sacrifice of rings for stats/personal awards.

theoneneo

03-23-2014, 01:04 PM

Lol Insecure Lebron stans, mad cause he's declining and KD surpassed him in his prime :lol

Lebron didn't accomplish much in his first 7 years. He played in an offensive system were he had the ball in his hands 80% of the time with no other superstar.

aj1987

03-23-2014, 01:50 PM

Yea and peak KD/Kobe would have very little chance of losing to the mavs in 2011, or the spurs in 2013.. two teams that dismantled lebron.
To get there, they had to go through the Bulls in '11 and Pacers in '13. Both series, in which Wade struggled.

Its funny.. when you look at Lebron's stats in his losses on Cleveland, theyre amazing. He could always put up numbers while having full control of the ball. But his numbers in losses(or near losses) with the Heat go south. Because when forced to share the ball and play a synchronous game with another superstar his game gets lost.

Which is why if you were to place Lebron on the Lakers in 97 and took a count of his stats until 03 they wouldnt be nearly as gaudy as they were in Cleveland because the Lakers had a system that revolved around ball movement. Lebron wouldnt have any MVPs playing next to Shaq.. without the opportunity to play one man army, his numbers would dip across the board.. but he would have a handful of rings. It would be a sacrifice of rings for stats/personal awards.
What are you even talking about?
'11:
Bulls - 26/8/7/2/2
Celtics - 28/8/4/2/2
Sixers - 24/11/6/1/1

'12:
Celtics - 34/11/4/1/1
Pacers - 30/11/6/3/1
Knicks - 28/6/6/2
Thunder - 29/10/7/2

'13:
Pacers - 29/7/5/2/2
Bucks - 25/8/7/1

Those aren't good numbers? Dude flat out choked in '11, but he has been sharing the ball with Wade and Bosh and won 2 rings while putting up great stats.

Lol Insecure Lebron stans, mad cause he's declining and KD surpassed him in his prime :lol

Lebron didn't accomplish much in his first 7 years. He played in an offensive system were he had the ball in his hands 80% of the time with no other superstar.
Won 2 MVP's, carried a bunch of scrubs to 2 60+ win seasons and to the Finals. I'd say those are pretty good accomplishments, considering his teams.

tpols

03-23-2014, 02:03 PM

moe94

03-23-2014, 02:06 PM

I'm talking about his stats compared to what he put up in cleveland.. he's never approached the same monster numbers while being on a good team.

It should be common sense that a player can put up better stats on a weaker team

He got those "weaker" teams to deep playoff runs and 60+ win seasons. It's not like he was putting up stats on lottery teams.

ImKobe

03-23-2014, 02:10 PM

You're kidding, right? '10 LeBron and '09 Wade? At worst, they're equal to '01 Kobe. That's definitely not a slight at Kobe though. These 3 seasons are among the GOAT seasons for perimeter players. LeBron was putting up 30/7/9/2/1 on 60% TS and 30/5/7/2/1 on 57% TS.

01 Kobe led a team to the most dominant Playoff record of all-time, smashing prime C-Webb & Duncan on the way to the Finals & outplaying prime Iverson in a series.

Lebron could have put up 50 ppg for all I cared, he didn't win shit. He choked when it mattered & he quit on his team the same off-season on National TV.

Kobe on the other hand matched prime Shaq's production in the Playoffs & put up 32 7 6 on 49%FG against the Western Conference, including b2b 45+ point 10+ reb 3+ ast games against two of the top 3 seeds in the West.

HoopsFanNumero1

03-23-2014, 02:12 PM

01 Kobe led a team to the most dominant Playoff record of all-time, smashing prime C-Webb & Duncan on the way to the Finals & outplaying prime Iverson in a series.

Lebron could have put up 50 ppg for all I cared, he didn't win shit. He choked when it mattered & he quit on his team the same off-season on National TV.

Kobe on the other hand matched prime Shaq's production in the Playoffs & put up 32 7 6 on 49%FG against the Western Conference, including b2b 45+ point 10+ reb 3+ ast games against two of the top 3 seeds in the West.

Were you watching a different series than everyone else?

moe94

03-23-2014, 02:13 PM

Were you watching a different series than everyone else?

You're falling for it because this is where those 2001 playoff pictures come. :facepalm

HoopsFanNumero1

03-23-2014, 02:17 PM

You're falling for it because this is where those 2001 playoff pictures come. :facepalm

This one?

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/VS/z%20Crazy%20Stat%20n%20Record/Allen%20Iverson/-EC95A4EC8DA8EB8C80_ECBD94EBB984_EC.jpg

tpols

03-23-2014, 02:18 PM

He got those "weaker" teams to deep playoff runs and 60+ win seasons. It's not like he was putting up stats on lottery teams.

They were some of the best rebounding and defensive teams in the league.. so yea they weren't terrible. But Bron had full reigns on offense to stack stats.. kinda like how kobe had full reign in 06 and 07.. Durant had full reign with Westbrook out.

If you want to look at just stats you have to examine the circumstances they're obtained in

mehyaM24

03-23-2014, 02:21 PM

unless kd outplays lebron in the finals or wins a title in dominant fashion, lebron has durant beat. handedly.

tpols

03-23-2014, 04:10 PM

unless kd outplays lebron in the finals or wins a title in dominant fashion, lebron has durant beat. handedly.
Lebron didn't win shit in his first 7 years.. why would Durant have to in his first 7?

LongLiveTheKing

03-23-2014, 04:12 PM

Lebron didn't win shit in his first 7 years.. why would Durant have to in his first 7?
He has a way better team, and another superstar in Westbrook. And very good player in Ibaka.

IncarceratedBob

03-23-2014, 04:12 PM

Lebron didn't win shit in his first 7 years.. why would Durant have to in his first 7?
You know what LeBron did the first time he had a legit team like KD has had since 2012? He first made the finals then won back 2 back rings.

Ibaka is better than any player LeBron played with in CLE. Shit even Lamb/Jackson are better than Mo Williams.

20Four

03-23-2014, 04:33 PM

DAMMMMMMNNNN
Kobe stans on HUSH mode. Kobe Bryant has yet again been exposed as an overrated player. Those stats in comparison to other greats are just ewwwwwww. I guarantee Victor Oladipo will have better stats. Kobe stans just took a massive L.
Not really...anyways who are you to say kobe is exposed? Your nothing to me or anybody on here so your opinions dont matter....sorry buddy u lost...go away like your magic go away every year...lol

tpols

03-23-2014, 04:47 PM

You know what LeBron did the first time he had a legit team like KD has had since 2012? He first made the finals then won back 2 back rings.

Ibaka is better than any player LeBron played with in CLE. Shit even Lamb/Jackson are better than Mo Williams.

Durant entered his prime like 3 years ago.. In 2011 he lost to the same team that smoked lebron.. In 2012 he lost to a peak lebron. Are we gonna act like a 4th year lebron would beat a peak (whenever that is) durant?

And last year he didn't have westbrook. Am I missing something here?

MadSolar

03-23-2014, 04:54 PM

You know what LeBron did the first time he had a legit team like KD has had since 2012? He first made the finals then won back 2 back rings.

Ibaka is better than any player LeBron played with in CLE. Shit even Lamb/Jackson are better than Mo Williams.
You know KD put up 30PPG on 50+ FG% in his first finals where as Lebron put up 22 on 35 FG %.

B4llin

03-23-2014, 05:28 PM

You know KD put up 30PPG on 50+ FG% in his first finals where as Lebron put up 22 on 35 FG %.

And Durant put up those stats against the next 'goat'. :coleman:

B4llin

03-23-2014, 05:30 PM

Durant with less turnovers than Lebron too.

Vienceslav

03-23-2014, 05:34 PM

That Kobe guy really sucks.

Simple Jack

03-24-2014, 03:24 AM

Durant entered his prime like 3 years ago.. In 2011 he lost to the same team that smoked lebron.. In 2012 he lost to a peak lebron. Are we gonna act like a 4th year lebron would beat a peak (whenever that is) durant?

And last year he didn't have westbrook. Am I missing something here?

I'm sure I could pull a post from you saying OKC would beat the Heat in 2012. They were favored, and were every bit as stacked as Miami. You had 3 franchise players on the team, a legit defensive stopper, and Ibaka.

Why do people constantly overlook the level of talent OKC has/had? I mean even when they had Kevin Martin coming off the bench; top to bottom the team was loaded. They lost that 3rd franchise guy in Harden, but replaced him with a 20+ ppg scorer off the bench while still keeping Westbrook and Ibaka.

That's not to say Miami isn't/wasn't talented as well, because they were; but OKC is/was certainly loaded as well; more so in previous years but they still are as well.

Comparing Durant's playoff teams to those Cavalier teams is nonsense.

russwest0

03-24-2014, 03:36 AM

unless kd outplays lebron in the finals or wins a title in dominant fashion, lebron has durant beat. handedly.

Durant basically did outplay LeBron in the 2012 Finals. Difference was the supporting cast of each. Switch the teams of each player and MIA probably sweeps OKC considering the only game OKC won required Durant scoring like 16 4th quarter points.

He also scored 16 4th quarter points in game 2, then got fouled on the game tying shot, but no call.

Simple Jack

03-24-2014, 04:01 AM

Durant basically did outplay LeBron in the 2012 Finals. Difference was the supporting cast of each. Switch the teams of each player and MIA probably sweeps OKC considering the only game OKC won required Durant scoring like 16 4th quarter points.

He also scored 16 4th quarter points in game 2, then got fouled on the game tying shot, but no call.

Remind me how he outplayed LeBron.

russwest0

03-24-2014, 04:11 AM

Remind me how he outplayed LeBron.

Go watch the series. Was more dominant on offense, was actually playing great defense on LeBron in the limited looks he got. Just got absolutely screwed by the officials with some of those calls that took him out of the game in foul trouble.

LeBron shot 20% on jumpers that series and essentially all of his offense came from barreling into the lane with his head down, running into somebody and going to the FT line. Same for D Wade to an extent. LeBron also got torched when he even attempted to guard Durant or Westbrook in that series, so he hid behind Perkins on defense.

D Wade was defending Durant really well, but that didn't really matter. Durant's offense wasn't being stopped aside from things like LeBron blatantly fouling him going uncalled or the refs taking him out of the game in foul trouble. Still averaged 31PPG on 55% which is insane.

JohnFreeman

03-24-2014, 04:18 AM

russwest0

03-24-2014, 04:21 AM

Doesn't dispel anything I say breaking down the finals. "Not sure you watched the Finals"

This is the same dipshit that thinks Melo is the best scorer in the league though, he is to be ignored :oldlol:

bdreason

03-24-2014, 04:24 AM

LeBrons numbers are ridiculous. He really came out of the gates quickly though. Guys like Kobe and Durant took a couple years to find their groove.

Simple Jack

03-24-2014, 04:34 AM

Go watch the series. Was more dominant on offense, was actually playing great defense on LeBron in the limited looks he got. Just got absolutely screwed by the officials with some of those calls that took him out of the game in foul trouble.

LeBron shot 20% on jumpers that series and essentially all of his offense came from barreling into the lane with his head down, running into somebody and going to the FT line. Same for D Wade to an extent. LeBron also got torched when he even attempted to guard Durant or Westbrook in that series, so he hid behind Perkins on defense.

D Wade was defending Durant really well, but that didn't really matter. Durant's offense wasn't being stopped aside from things like LeBron blatantly fouling him going uncalled or the refs taking him out of the game in foul trouble. Still averaged 31PPG on 55% which is insane.

I have watched the series.

It's funny you cite the PPG and FG% after just making a post about how Kobe's impact isn't reflected in the stats and box score.

Did game 4 not happen? I'm pretty sure LeBron was getting anything he wanted in the post leading to buckets or open looks. Durant wasn't much of a factor in that game disappearing for long stretches.

Is there a reason you put so much emphasis on aesthetics? It comes down to effectiveness and despite you not being a fan of how LeBron tends to get his points (by driving) doesn't mean it isn't extremely effective. Dude can drive into the lane and lay it up and you want him to take a step back 3 pointer off the dribble?

LeBron took 24, 22, 23, 20, 19 FG in that series. Were these all and-1's or are you clearly exaggerating to try to make your point. He made under 10 FT's in every game but 1.

LeBron impacted more facets of the game in the 2012 finals. May be different this year, but don't try to rewrite history. Your strange hate for LeBron is past the point of obsessive. Shit is creepy man.

LOL @ him "basically outplaying LeBron."

russwest0

03-24-2014, 04:37 AM

LeBron impacted all facets of the game in the 2012 Finals?

Yeah, THANK GOD he shut down Perkins on D :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: Miami would have been ****ed otherwise

catquickspider

03-24-2014, 04:44 AM

JohnFreeman

03-24-2014, 04:49 AM

If Durant played so well in the finals, where is his ring?

Simple Jack

03-24-2014, 04:52 AM

LeBron impacted all facets of the game in the 2012 Finals?

Yeah, THANK GOD he shut down Perkins on D :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: Miami would have been ****ed otherwise

Someone posted the numbers before.

Bron was on Durant nearly half the series while Durant was on LeBron about a quarter of it (for possessions that ended up with a FGA, Foul or TO).

Durant scored 42 points while being guarded by LeBron; and LeBron scored 38 while being guarded by Durant. .568 TS% for Durant, and .569 TS% for LeBron.

Any other misinformed shit you'd like to say?

russwest0

03-24-2014, 05:00 AM

If Durant played so well in the finals, where is his ring?

Same place where Wade's 2011 Finals ring is.

DMAVS41

03-24-2014, 12:05 PM

Kobe was not given the green light until the 2004-2005 season.

KD and Durant started on garbage teams with a green light.

You can compare but the cases are not the same. Durant and Lebron have more similar situations.

The problem with this is that Kobe was not good enough his first 3 years at least to have this green light.

If rookie Kobe had taken 19 shots a game like Lebron and played 40 minutes per game on a team that won 17 games the year before...he literally might have shot like 15% from the field.

So I agree that it's not a perfect comparison just on stats, we can't ignore that Kobe simply wasn't good enough his first 3 years to have this green light you speak of at all. And took until 00 to really become legit...and 01 to become elite...and 01 was his 5th year.

It's just a completely different developmental process. Durant and Lebron were simply way better players over their first 4 years in the league than Kobe was. Can't just ignore that...

Papaya Petee

03-24-2014, 12:18 PM

LeBron impacted all facets of the game in the 2012 Finals?

Yeah, THANK GOD he shut down Perkins on D :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: Miami would have been ****ed otherwise
:roll: :roll: LeBron guarded Durant for about 50% of the series, while Durant guarded LeBron on rare occasions and spend most of his time guarding Mario ****ing Chalmers who lit him up for 25 in game 4 :roll: :roll:

Durant was basically invisible on defense for most of the series.

The Thunder were heavy favorites to win it all. A healthy Westbrook who was the 2nd best PG in the league, 6th man of the year Harden who is now a 26\6\5 player in Houston, Serge Ibaka who when included defense is = to Chris Bosh. Yet the Heat had a more stacked team? :roll:

Durant got embarrassed that year. 1-4 while being the favorite with home court advantage. LeBron made your boy cry and that's that simple.

edrick

03-24-2014, 12:58 PM

LeBron impacted all facets of the game in the 2012 Finals?

Yeah, THANK GOD he shut down Perkins on D :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: Miami would have been ****ed otherwise

Lebron guarded Durant more than Durant guarded Lebron. It's not even close. Who was Durant on a lot... remind me. :rolleyes:

Trollsmasher

03-24-2014, 01:08 PM

Yeah, Durant scored nicely in that series, mostly on open shots provided by GOATbrook. Most of his points were pretty much impactless.

He also grabbed 6 rebounds per game as a 7 footer and had a A/TO ratio of 0,5:lol

Not to mention his stiffling defense where the guy they tried to hide him onto always proceeded to have a big game:lol

juju151111

03-24-2014, 01:10 PM

I have watched the series.

It's funny you cite the PPG and FG% after just making a post about how Kobe's impact isn't reflected in the stats and box score.

Did game 4 not happen? I'm pretty sure LeBron was getting anything he wanted in the post leading to buckets or open looks. Durant wasn't much of a factor in that game disappearing for long stretches.

Is there a reason you put so much emphasis on aesthetics? It comes down to effectiveness and despite you not being a fan of how LeBron tends to get his points (by driving) doesn't mean it isn't extremely effective. Dude can drive into the lane and lay it up and you want him to take a step back 3 pointer off the dribble?

LeBron took 24, 22, 23, 20, 19 FG in that series. Were these all and-1's or are you clearly exaggerating to try to make your point. He made under 10 FT's in every game but 1.

LeBron impacted more facets of the game in the 2012 finals. May be different this year, but don't try to rewrite history. Your strange hate for LeBron is past the point of obsessive. Shit is creepy man.

LOL @ him "basically outplaying LeBron."
Your mention ing one game through. After Outplaying the Shit out of LeBron in Gamec1. The refs decided to bench KD in Gane 2 until the last Q which KD reentered and dominated again, but was too late. Not to mention the clear foul on LeBron on the last play in the series. Nobody is rewritten history. It is a fact KD avgergiled 31 ppg on some crazy FG%.