List of High School or 1 and done players who flopped in the NBA

[Akhenaten]

So its a belaboured argument that high schoolers and 1 and done guys are depreciating the quality of the league.

But I can can hardly think of any high school guys or 1 and done guys who were abject failures In the league. In fact MOST of the leagues seminal players of recent memory all entered the league early.

Which would make sense because you have to have transcendent talent to come out early.

Kevin Durant
Lebron James
Kevin Garnett
Amare Stoudamire
Kobe Bryant
Derrick Rose
Tmac
John Wall
Kyrie Irving
Dwight Howard

Nothing but 1st team all-nba, all-stars, MVPs, top ten all time greats (BRAWN and Kobe), guys who have literally SHAPED this modern league, the absolute best of the best.

even the guys like Quinton Richardson, Rashard Lewis etc have be relatively successful on the NBA level.

Even the bummiest of the bums Kwame Brown lasted 10+ years.

I keep hearing this argument but is it based on anything TANGIBLE? It seems like a purely philosophical argument.


Let's compile a list of the high schoolers/1 n done guys who flopped in the league.

[DuMa]

Jonathan Bender
Sebastian Telfair

[#number6ix#]

Johnny Flynn
Beasley
Terrance Williams
Robert swift

[KobesFinger]

Kwame Brown- HS, 1st overall
Michael Beasley - Kansas, 2nd overall
DeSagana Diop - HS, 5th overall

Then dumbasses like JR and Josh Smith came from HS. How do you rate Kendrick Perkins?

[boozehound]

So its a belaboured argument that high schoolers and 1 and done guys are depreciating the quality of the league.

But I can can hardly think of any high school guys or 1 and done guys who were abject failures In the league. In fact MOST of the leagues seminal players of recent memory all entered the league early.

Which would make sense because you have to have transcendent talent to come out early.

Kevin Durant
Lebron James
Kevin Garnett
Amare Stoudamire
Kobe Bryant
Derrick Rose
Tmac
John Wall
Kyrie Irving
Dwight Howard

Nothing but 1st team all-nba, all-stars, MVPs, top ten all time greats (BRAWN and Kobe), guys who have literally SHAPED this modern league, the absolute best of the best.

even the guys like Quinton Richardson, Rashard Lewis etc have be relatively successful on the NBA level.

Even the bummiest of the bums Kwame Brown lasted 10+ years.

I keep hearing this argument but is it based on anything TANGIBLE? It seems like a purely philosophical argument.


Let's compile a list of the high schoolers/1 n done guys who flopped in the league.
The reason you cant think of any of them is because they are all afterthoughts. Why would you remember them?


Kwame may not have been a flop, but he was certainly a disappointment.

I bet if you laid out every draft list, you would find a ton.
Daniel Orton comes to mind

[Rose'sACL]

Kwame Brown- HS, 1st overall
Michael Beasley - Kansas, 2nd overall
DeSagana Diop - HS, 5th overall

Then dumbasses like JR and Josh Smith came from HS. How do you rate Kendrick Perkins?
how are josh smith and JR smith failures? The way you write suits an idiot like you.

[chocolatethunder]

Jeremy Tyler, Austin Rivers, Brandon Jennings, Korleone Young, Eddy Curry, it took Tyson Chandler years to become decent but those years are over.

[chocolatethunder]

The reason you cant think of any of them is because they are all afterthoughts. Why would you remember them?


Kwame may not have been a flop, but he was certainly a disappointment.

I bet if you laid out every draft list, you would find a ton.
Daniel Orton comes to mind
Exactly. I'm glad you mention Orton. Jesus, watching him on the Sixers this year was just comical.

[KG215]

Flynn and Quentin Richardson weren't one-and-done players.

[Real Men Wear Green]

The only one I could remember was Taj McDavid. Telfair may or may not belong in this category as well. A little search also yielded the names Korleone Young and Ousmane Cisse. And I'm sure there are more. Not more than the success stories (especially the ones that left after HS) though.

There are some NBA execs and some NBA players that will say they are for a raised age limit for the individual player's sake. They aren't all lying but there are no doubt ulterior motives for taking that position.

On the owner/executive side the league doesn't need rookie Kobe, KG, T-Mac, etc. Of the HSers it's a definite minority that come in and are good at the NBA level. Only James arrived good enough to be ROY. So without an age limit GMs are forced to draft guys that would hit a higher percentage of free throws by dunking them than shooting. The NBA is better off if everyone has to go to college for 3 or 4 years. It's their free developmental league and also weeds out guys that looked great in college and might have been drafted high if they didn't have to play against a higher level of competition. It will also make players bigger stars coming into the league as we're all more impressed by a guy that had a star run in the tournament than someone who we've never seen/heard of before, maybe scored 20 points in one of those HS games ESPN shouldn't be broadcasting.

For the players in the league it's simple: they don't want to lose their job to a guy that doesn't even have to beat them out. For example, let's say the Nets had drafted Julius Randle out of HS this year (please ignore feasibility for the sake of argument). That means Jason Collins doesn't get brought in this season, even though Kidd could well decide that Randle has no idea how to play and is just going to spend his rookie year getting cussed out by KG all day long in practice, 0 pt. It doesn't matter that Kidd could use Collins' small contribution more because the potential of Randle makes him far more valuable than the 1 points, 2 boards and "being in the right place" you get from a vet like Collins that a HS player won't give you.

Please don't let this turn into an argument over whether or not Randle could do more than Collins, it's just an example. Coaches bench more talented rookies for vets with no statistical production all the time, that's why I used that example, this is not, I repeat, not, a statement on my part of what I think Randle could do in the NBA right now. In reality I have no idea beyond thinking he could rebound.

[chocolatethunder]

The only one I could remember was Taj McDavid. Telfair may or may not belong in this category as well. A little search also yielded the names Korleone Young and Ousmane Cisse. And I'm sure there are more. Not more than the success stories (especially the ones that left after HS) though.

There are some NBA execs and some NBA players that will say they are for a raised age limit for the individual player's sake. They aren't all lying but there are no doubt ulterior motives for taking that position.

On the owner/executive side the league doesn't need rookie Kobe, KG, T-Mac, etc. Of the HSers it's a definite minority that come in and are good at the NBA level. Only James arrived good enough to be ROY. So without an age limit GMs are forced to draft guys that would hit a higher percentage of free throws by dunking them than shooting. The NBA is better off if everyone has to go to college for 3 or 4 years. It's their free developmental league and also weeds out guys that looked great in college and might have been drafted high if they didn't have to play against a higher level of competition. It will also make players bigger stars coming into the league as we're all more impressed by a guy that had a star run in the tournament than someone who we've never seen/heard of before, maybe scored 20 points in one of those HS games ESPN shouldn't be broadcasting.

For the players in the league it's simple: they don't want to lose their job to a guy that doesn't even have to beat them out. For example, let's say the Nets had drafted Julius Randle out of HS this year (please ignore feasibility for the sake of argument). That means Jason Collins doesn't get brought in this season, even though Kidd could well decide that Randle has no idea how to play and is just going to spend his rookie year getting cussed out by KG all day long in practice, 0 pt. It doesn't matter that Kidd could use Collins' small contribution more because the potential of Randle makes him far more valuable than the 1 points, 2 boards and "being in the right place" you get from a vet like Collins that a HS player won't give you.

Please don't let this turn into an argument over whether or not Randle could do more than Collins, it's just an example. Coaches bench more talented rookies for vets with no statistical production all the time, that's why I used that example, this is not, I repeat, not, a statement on my part of what I think Randle could do in the NBA right now. In reality I have no idea beyond thinking he could rebound.
I have no prob with the owners position on this. As a business owner would you want to hire a dude who isn't going to produce much for you for a few years and maybe never or would you want to hire a guy who can produce a little now and more in the future. There are no guarantees in business but you try and minimize the risks. In the nba money is guaranteed so even if a player doesn't produce then they get paid. This is the one part of the system that overwhelmingly favors the player. I'm not saying the age limit is the best option but something has to be done to make the product better. The rookie classes are just getting worse and worse in terms of how much these guys contribute. When you add in expansion it just makes the talent level and overall game less satisfying to fans who have been watching for a long time. The d league needs to be used better and get AAU out of the equation and we need to learn to develop players better like what happens in Europe. It gets old to see another 6'6" guy who can't shoot and has no idea to move without the ball but can jump and is fast. Imagine if AAU aftually taught then how to shoot and cut and move without the ball. It would be a lot better than having to wait six years or however long it took for Gerald Green to become decent.

[IncarceratedBob]

Dwight Howard has kinda been a bust, never won anything

[Real Men Wear Green]

I have no prob with the owners position on this.
I don't have a "problem" with it either, it's just business, but I don't believe for a second that they are all taking this position for the sake of the players and that's something they want us to believe.

[qrich]

Its Quentin Richardson mother****er.

[theoneneo]

List of High School or 1 and done players who flopped in the NBA

Not sure if any high school player flopped as much as this guy :lol

http://www.pbh2.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/lebron-flopping-versus-knicks.gif

[DJ Leon Smith]

Shoutout to the big homie Leon Smith.

[KobesFinger]

how are josh smith and JR smith failures? The way you write suits an idiot like you.


You're still mad because I write in bold and justify to the right? What difference does it make? Are my posts unreadable? My spelling and grammar are fine and I don't post dumb shit.

And I didn't say they're failures, I said they're dumbasses. Comprehension is a valuable skill.

[Rose'sACL]

You're still mad because I write in bold and justify to the right? What difference does it make? Are my posts unreadable? My spelling and grammar are fine and I don't post dumb shit.

And I didn't say they're failures, I said they're dumbasses. Comprehension is a valuable skill.
says the guy who can't read thread title. Josh smith and JR smith didn't flop. They are playing in the NBA while playing major minutes and not even among the worst 50 players in the league.
Keep writing like that though . i am sure your parents and friends will start paying attention to you finally because you write like this on a bball forum.

[pegasus]

A certain f-word from the thread title makes me wanna say "Lebron".

[KobesFinger]

says the guy who can't read thread title. Josh smith and JR smith didn't flop. They are playing in the NBA while playing major minutes and not even among the worst 50 players in the league.
Keep writing like that though . i am sure your parents and friends will start paying attention to you finally because you write like this on a bball forum.


Why are you taking my writing style so personally? Its actually pissing you off and I don't get why. Do you think I care if my family or friends know I write justified right in bold on the internet? You're the only person who cares and it makes you look like a cranky shit when you call me out over it.

Answer me this: why am I an idiot for justifying right and writing in bold?

[Rose'sACL]

Why are you taking my writing style so personally? Its actually pissing you off and I don't get why. Do you think I care if my family or friends know I write justified right in bold on the internet? You're the only person who cares and it makes you look like a cranky shit when you call me out over it.

Answer me this: why am I an idiot for justifying right and writing in bold?
lol

[Rocketswin2013]

Dwight Howard has kinda been a bust, never won anything
Went to the NBA Finals, 3-peated DPOY awards, perennial 1st team ALL-NBA.

Now compare that, to 1 and done Melo..... I guess that's different right?

[Rocketswin2013]

Why are you taking my writing style so personally? Its actually pissing you off and I don't get why. Do you think I care if my family or friends know I write justified right in bold on the internet? You're the only person who cares and it makes you look like a cranky shit when you call me out over it.

Answer me this: why am I an idiot for justifying right and writing in bold?
Are you typing with reverse indentations?

[KobesFinger]

Are you typing with reverse indentations?


No, I just click "align right" above the text box. I don't know if that's the same thing, I've never come across the term before

[Akhenaten]

Forgot about Melo

So it should be a consensus that comparatively speaking, high schoolers and 1 and done guys have done more to improve the league than devalue it right?

RMWG mentioned the ulterior motive of NBA owners being a devalued product, the only problem is BY AND LARGE the guuys who have come out early have literally MADE this league the success that it is today.

Kobe, Lebron, Melo, Durant, KG.


This suggests to me that they do have an ulterior motive and some clandestine reason for be opposed to this and it has nothing to do with a devalued product.

The NBA is more popular than ever, ratings are higher than ever, they are making more money than ever. It was a almost nothing but 2-4 year guys coming out in the expansion 90's and the quality of the league than was HORRENDOUS.


So what then are their TRUE reasons?

[Xiao Yao You]

Luthur Wright

[Real Men Wear Green]

RMWG mentioned the ulterior motive of NBA owners being a devalued product, the only problem is BY AND LARGE the guuys who have come out early have literally MADE this league the success that it is today.
You partially misunderstood me here. I said the NBA for the most part doesn't need the rookie version of HS players (James and Howard being notable exceptions). Of course the NBA still wants Bryant, KG, etc. over the course of their careers.

I don't see any big conspiracy here, NBA owners just don't want to have to pay for guys that haven't developed enough to contribute on the NBA level and so prefer to have the NCAA develop their future stars for free.

[ZenMaster]

Forgot about Melo

So it should be a consensus that comparatively speaking, high schoolers and 1 and done guys have done more to improve the league than devalue it right?

RMWG mentioned the ulterior motive of NBA owners being a devalued product, the only problem is BY AND LARGE the guuys who have come out early have literally MADE this league the success that it is today.

Kobe, Lebron, Melo, Durant, KG.


This suggests to me that they do have an ulterior motive and some clandestine reason for be opposed to this and it has nothing to do with a devalued product.

The NBA is more popular than ever, ratings are higher than ever, they are making more money than ever. It was a almost nothing but 2-4 year guys coming out in the expansion 90's and the quality of the league than was HORRENDOUS.


So what then are their TRUE reasons?

You're missing some perspective.

It's not about entering after 1 and done or HS vs not entering at all which is the way you're setting it up, sure the players you mention has done more for the league than devalue it, but they'd still do that even though they had to stay in college a year longer.
All players mentioned would be in the league regardless(obviously).

The reason is you want a higher median level of play for rookies, think Ben McLemore. His physical potential+skills relative to his draft class made so he had to go to the NBA as a high lottery pick after 1 year even though at this point Ryan Kelly is a better NBA player and has been all year.

[Kblaze8855]

There arent many straight to the league guys who just straight sucked. Most were decent to good and a higher rate were stars than when compared to people who went to school. Add in the 1 and dones? Harder to say. I could probably name all but 7-8 straight to the league players. Maybe more than that. Has to be a lot more freshmen to the league.

[CavaliersFTW]

Lebron is a high school player that flopped in the NBA, he flops all the time it's sickening and yes it depreciates the quality of the league...

hehe

[chocolatethunder]

There arent many straight to the league guys who just straight sucked. Most were decent to good and a higher rate were stars than when compared to people who went to school. Add in the 1 and dones? Harder to say. I could probably name all but 7-8 straight to the league players. Maybe more than that. Has to be a lot more freshmen to the league.
Yes the straight to the league guys for the most part have been good but there's a reason for that. The reason is that they were so hyped and scouted that they were thought of as exceptional players. One and dones there are many more of them who weren't as good.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Yes the straight to the league guys for the most part have been good but there's a reason for that. The reason is that they were so hyped and scouted that they were thought of as exceptional players. One and dones there are many more of them who weren't as good.
This is unavoidable. By the nature of the sport most freshmen, sophomores and seniors won't be pros. Sooner or later, the vast majority are weeded out. If all a guy cares about is making it to the NBA he should by all means check his draft prediction on the various websites and if he's predicted to make the first round, go pro. There may be a few coaches coaching his future pros with their NBA career in mind but there are tons of juniors and seniors that have NBA talent but some glaring weakness that must be remedied for them to have a lasting career. I don't see any reason to believe that the NCAA is better than the NBA at preparing a talented player for an NBA career. If a guy is only interested in being a pro and not interested in NCAA accomplishments or school the only question for them that needs to be answered is whether or not they're happy with their predicted draft position.

[chocolatethunder]

This is unavoidable. By the nature of the sport most freshmen, sophomores and seniors won't be pros. Sooner or later, the vast majority are weeded out. If all a guy cares about is making it to the NBA he should by all means check his draft prediction on the various websites and if he's predicted to make the first round, go pro. There may be a few coaches coaching his future pros with their NBA career in mind but there are tons of juniors and seniors that have NBA talent but some glaring weakness that must be remedied for them to have a lasting career. I don't see any reason to believe that the NCAA is better than the NBA at preparing a talented player for an NBA career. If a guy is only interested in being a pro and not interested in NCAA accomplishments or school the only question for them that needs to be answered is whether or not they're happy with their predicted draft position.
I don't think the NCAA is any better either. I would like to see something done but I'm not sure an age limit is the right idea. I don't have a solution but the status quo is producing a league full of guys who can't move without the ball and can't shoot and it makes the game shitty. Of course I'm generalizing. They have a d league and they should figure out what to do with it. Right now it's filled with guys who will never make it to the nba with the exception of about 5% and the rest of the league is crap. They should maybe think about doing what baseball does or something because whatever is happening is making basketball harder to watch each year.

[wakencdukest]

When you have such a small sample size, of course the percentage of busts is gonna be lower. If you have 20 players per draft that are 1 and done or straight from high school, odds are they are all going to be the most elite players coming out of high school, therefore having the best chance to succeed. If you had 40 of them per draft, the percentage of busts would go way up. I'd be willing to bet that the percentage of white guys who stick in the NBA is higher than the percentage of blacks, because the sample size is so small, same concept though.

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

Korleone Young