How did a team led by Gary Payton win 60+ games and make it to the finals

[rlsmooth775]

Someone explain how the supersonics made it so far

[Milbuck]

http://www.nwsportsbeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Payton-Kemp-Karl.jpg

[Rake2204]

http://www.interbasket.net/players/schrempf.jpg

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/5309/detlef.png

http://media.thinkadvisor.com/thinkadvisor/article/2013/11/22/Schrempf_Detlef_Sonics_AP_MI600-resize-600x338.jpg

http://1.media.collegehumor.cvcdn.com/d/d/collegehumor.dd3ec46d3470de4aa3e6192d3a7c378a.jpg

[wildchild]

That Sonics team would be champs in this era.

[rlsmooth775]

That Sonics team would be champs in this era.

No 95-99 was the worst time for the nba

[Rose'sACL]

That Sonics team would be champs in this era.
This. any team which had top 5 record league-wide in the 90s would sweep any team from this era. they might have to make it best of 11 so that current teams can win even a single game.

[wildchild]

No 95-99 was the worst time for the nba

:oldlol: :facepalm

[DonDadda59]

They were extremely well balanced on both offense and defense. They finished 2nd in offensive and defensive rating to the Bulls. Payton was DPOY and an all star along with Kemp (20/10 player). They had 5 guys on the team posting at least 12 PPG, shooters, a solid bench, played great team defense, had an experienced coach.

They were basically the Clippers with better defense and their star PG being healthy.

[aau]

wow

didn't believe you

8 fewer than the 72 win bulls

33 year old detlef scrimps

35 year old sam perkins

and hersey hawkins

won 64 games

in the nba

no less

[FreezingTsmoove]

George karl .......

[L.Kizzle]

Because Hall of Famers usually lead their teams to impressive regular season records.

They also won 63 games in 94 and 61 games in 98. Not to mention the went 55 plus in 93, 95 and 97.. That's a pretty good run. Without looking up the stats, they probably had the best win $ in the 90s besides the Bulls.

[aau]

they had 1 player shoot better than 45% in the finals

league was terrible

[DonDadda59]

they had 1 player shoot better than 45% in the finals

league was terrible

How do you figure the 'league was terrible'? They played a great defensive team in the Bulls. And they themselves were great on D. Jordan was held to 42% and Pippen 34% shooting.

It was an awesome defensive era, but I guess if they're not playing guys like the Spurs did Lebron- giving him 10 ft of space on his jumpers, that means the league was terrible :lol

[Bless Mathews]

Smh. Smh.

Still we don't get no respect.

Those teams would shit on the NBA today.

[Rose'sACL]

Smh. Smh.

Still we don't get no respect.

Those teams would shit on the NBA today.
This. Any of those teams would win 80+ games in today's league. I hope more people respected older eras given how less people overrate them. Fans like you and me never overrate teams of past eras whereas fans of current teams say things like " heat would win in 4 against Jordan's double 3-peat bulls."

[aau]

How do you figure the 'league was terrible'? They played a great defensive team in the Bulls. And they themselves were great on D. Jordan was held to 42% and Pippen 34% shooting.

It was an awesome defensive era, but I guess if they're not playing guys like the Spurs did Lebron- giving him 10 ft of space on his jumpers, that means the league was terrible :lol

a team with detlef sam and hersey won 64 games

sorry ain't that much defense in the world

league was horrid offensively not defensive juggernauts

best players were old as mummy dust

the sonics beat 35 year old stockton and malone in the wcf

the same jazz team that won 64 games the following
season and appeared in the next two finals

they were 40

please

league was waack don

[JohnFreeman]

Payton is a real nikka, unlike CP3

[DonDadda59]

a team with detlef sam and hersey won 64 games

league was waack don


A team with Payton (DPOY, all star), Kemp (20/11 All star), Shrempf, Perkins, and Hawkins won 64.

A team w/ Lebron and who knows went to the finals in '07, later won 66 followed by 61. And the Knicks at 29-41 are in the playoff hunt in the league right now.

A super team from Miami barely got by a team anchored by the ghost of Tim Duncan in 7.

But a team where multiple young all stars/DPOY and great role players who were second in offense and defense winning 64 means the league was 'waack'

Explain yourself :biggums:

[aau]

you bring up lebron but I have to explain myself

ok

iirc i'll check later

with Jordan in the league the jazz were the only team to
reach consecutive conference finals the entire decade

let alone consecutive finals

should I explain that too , , ok Jordan wasn't the only player keeping
old ass hall of famers from winning titles or reaching the finals

they were losing to scrubs

[Calabis]

]
A team with Payton (DPOY, all star), Kemp (20/11 All star), Shrempf, Perkins, and Hawkins won 64.

A team w/ Lebron and who knows went to the finals in '07, later won 66 followed by 61. And the Knicks at 29-41 are in the playoff hunt in the league right now.

A super team from Miami barely got by a team anchored by the ghost of Tim Duncan in 7.

But a team where multiple young all stars/DPOY and great role players who were second in offense and defense winning 64 means the league was 'waack'

Explain yourself :biggums:

AAU after this post

http://wifflegif.com/gifs/211804-the-devil-wears-prada-deal-with-it-gif

[DonDadda59]

you bring up lebron

Because your argument is that a team with a HOF PG winning DPOY teamed with a 20/11 wrecking ball PF and great supporting cast like Schrempf (17/5/4 41% from 3), and a host of shooters and defensive scrappers winning 64 games and making it to the finals meant the league was 'waack'.

LeBron with some dudes he found at the bus station made it to the finals in '07 only to get swept. Then he got 66 and 61 wins with them in consecutive years before abandoning them to form a super team that depleted the East of talent/balance.

You say the Jazz were old yet overlook the fact that the 37 year old ghost of Tim Duncan was a rebound away from winning his fourth finals MVP against said team.

If the league was 'waack' when the Sonics were doing their thing then we must be witnessing some other level wiggity whack era right now.

Oh wait.

[B]"Just look at the league, this is the weakest I

[aau]

had to reword that but this is how bad it was

the bulls without the goat won 55 games



dat water

[DCL]

that sonics team was stacked.

[aau]

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]Because your argument is that a team with a HOF PG winning DPOY teamed with a 20/11 wrecking ball PF and great supporting cast like Schrempf (17/5/4 41% from 3), and a host of shooters and defensive scrappers winning 64 games and making it to the finals meant the league was 'waack'.

LeBron with some dudes he found at the bus station made it to the finals in '07 only to get swept. Then he got 66 and 61 wins with them in consecutive years before abandoning them to form a super team that depleted the East of talent/balance.

You say the Jazz were old yet overlook the fact that the 37 year old ghost of Tim Duncan was a rebound away from winning his fourth finals MVP against said team.

If the league was 'waack' when the Sonics were doing their thing then we must be witnessing some other level wiggity whack era right now.

Oh wait.

[B]"Just look at the league, this is the weakest I

[Xiao Yao You]

2 superstars

[ThePhantomCreep]

Watching the current champs struggle to beat the Paul George-led Pacers in last year's EC Finals, it's thought to see them beating the Sonics in a 7-game series.

Btw, the 2009 Cavs won 66 games. Try to picture them doing that in the mid-90's without laughing your a** off.

[Cali Syndicate]

a team with detlef sam and hersey won 64 games

sorry ain't that much defense in the world

league was horrid offensively not defensive juggernauts

best players were old as mummy dust

the sonics beat 35 year old stockton and malone in the wcf

the same jazz team that won 64 games the following
season and appeared in the next two finals

they were 40

please

league was waack don

A jazz team that beat an all star studded lakers squad led by prime Shaquille. And not just beat.....fcking swept them.

Hersey Hawkins was an Eddie jones type player. Detlef was superior player than Toni kukoc. Glove and reign man were legit stars, glove being a fringe superstar.

Lebron and his subpar cast back to back 60 win seasons. Superior era? :rolleyes:

[Myth]

How? Because Payton is one of the greatest PGs of all time and that was a good team. Payton is underrated on this board IMO. I have always been bugged by seeing Payton ranked below Nash by many here.

[Myth]

Watching the current champs struggle to beat the Paul George-led Pacers in last year's EC Finals, it's thought to see them beating the Sonics in a 7-game series.

Btw, the 2009 Cavs won 66 games. Try to picture them doing that in the mid-90's without laughing your a** off.

I agree with most of the statements in here defending 90s basketball, but the current Pacers team is about as close to a 90s team you get in the modern era. They have an old school center and they some pretty decent defense. They actually are the closet this era has to the 90s Knicks.

[Project018]

How? Because Payton is one of the greatest PGs of all time and that was a good team. Payton is underrated on this board IMO. I have always been bugged by seeing Payton ranked below Nash by many here.

Payton > Nash allday errday

[GP_20]

Because Gary Payton in his peak was a Top 3 PG All-Time, and had another All-Star in Kemp, and other strong role players like Detlef, McMillan, and Hawkins. They were deep, well coached, had the All-Star duo, and were great on both ends of the floor.

[Collie]

They had a 20/11 big man with excellent defense, a 19/8/4 PG with DPOY level defense, a 17/5/4 6'10 all-around SF, a 16/3/3 4th option who was also a great 3 point shooter, a 12/5 6th man center, an excellent bench that also included a top notch defensive PG. Their only weakness was Ervin "Not Magic" Johnson, but even then, he was a decent defensive center.

They were as close to a complete team as you could get.

[ILLsmak]

No 95-99 was the worst time for the nba

I generally don't reply to J14s, but I think this statement as well as the other statement are both pretty true.

The Sonics WOULD be a championship team in this era and that WAS a terrible era for basketball.

-Smak

[All Net]

They had a 20/11 big man with excellent defense, a 19/8/4 PG with DPOY level defense, a 17/5/4 6'10 all-around SF, a 16/3/3 4th option who was also a great 3 point shooter, a 12/5 6th man center, an excellent bench that also included a top notch defensive PG. Their only weakness was Ervin "Not Magic" Johnson, but even then, he was a decent defensive center.

They were as close to a complete team as you could get.

Pretty much this.

[ThePhantomCreep]

Shawn Kemp, the 2nd greatest in-game dunker of all-time, and the 2nd best player on the '96 Sonics. A big clue as to why they were so good:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTFNeJV_jJs

[Nikola_]

This. any team which had top 5 record league-wide in the 90s would sweep any team from this era. they might have to make it best of 11 so that current teams can win even a single game.



This. Any of those teams would win 80+ games in today's league. I hope more people respected older eras given how less people overrate them. Fans like you and me never overrate teams of past eras whereas fans of current teams say things like " heat would win in 4 against Jordan's double 3-peat bulls."

http://cdn.avsforum.com/b/be/bebd31eb_5046091402_029de93f24.jpeg

[JohnFreeman]

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Confused-Gary-Payton.gif

[diamenz]

This. Any of those teams would win 80+ games in today's league. I hope more people respected older eras given how less people overrate them. Fans like you and me never overrate teams of past eras whereas fans of current teams say things like " heat would win in 4 against Jordan's double 3-peat bulls."

give it a rest, guy. lol.

[jstern]

Gary Payton is 1st ballot hall of famer superstar.

[SamuraiSWISH]

They were extremely well balanced on both offense and defense. They finished 2nd in offensive and defensive rating to the Bulls. Payton was DPOY and an all star along with Kemp (20/10 player). They had 5 guys on the team posting at least 12 PPG, shooters, a solid bench, played great team defense, had an experienced coach.

They were basically the Clippers with better defense and their star PG being healthy.
[/thread]

[houston]

gary payton was a choke artist that why

[Killbot]

Because they're awesome.

[ZMonkey11]

1. That was a good Sonics team. The pieces fit.

2. The league was watered down at that point. AKA TWO expansion teams and the Jordan effect.

[Straight_Ballin]

I generally don't reply to J14s, but I think this statement as well as the other statement are both pretty true.

The Sonics WOULD be a championship team in this era and that WAS a terrible era for basketball.

-Smak

Which means that the current era would be even more terrible since a team from that old terrible era would be champions in the current era.

[Straight_Ballin]

This. any team which had top 5 record league-wide in the 90s would sweep any team from this era. they might have to make it best of 11 so that current teams can win even a single game.

^
Lol this guy shitting on the hopes and dreams of 12-15 year old Ish 'ers that look to lebron to lead them in this era only to have them watch YouTube to realize true greatness in the form of past superior eras.

[Bless Mathews]

Op is an idiot.

I watched almost every game.

People have summed up my thoughts.

All across the board, one of best overall defensive teams. Payton. Kemp. Ervin Johnson. Nate McMillan. Detlef. Ok poast defender.

Great team. Damn I miss kevin calabro. And Marques Johnson. Smh.

[sportjames23]

1. That was a good Sonics team. The pieces fit.

2. The league was watered down at that point. AKA TWO expansion teams and the Jordan effect.


If the league was watered down then, what the hell is it now? Seriously, how the fvck does this dumb shit formulate in haters' minds.

[D.J.]

-Payton averaged 19/8/4/3 and won DPOY

-Kemp averaged 20/11 on 56% shooting

-Schrempf averaged 17/5/4

-Hawkins averaged almost 16 PPG

-Perkins averaged almost 12 PPG off the bench


And to add:


-Nate McMillan was still an elite perimeter defender

-Ervin Johnson was one of the better shot blockers in the league

-Hawkins, Schrempf, and Perkins were all 3 point threats

-They were 2nd in the league in defensive rating

-They were a very tall team. Their starting front court were all 6'10"+, plus you had Perkins and Brickowski off the bench.

[deja vu]

How could a team of LeBron + scrubs win 60+ games multiple times and make it to the Finals?

How could a team of Kidd + scrubs make it to the Finals twice?

So you're surprised that Payton + Kemp + solid starters and bench could make it to the Finals and win 60+ games? :roll:

GTFO, Kid.

[20Four]

How could a team of LeBron + scrubs win 60+ games multiple times and make it to the Finals?

How could a team of Kidd + scrubs make it to the Finals twice?

So you're surprised that Payton + Kemp + solid starters and bench could make it to the Finals and win 60+ games? :roll:

GTFO, Kid.
^ This

http://i.minus.com/ibnYXPGXYbaoGj.gif

[Soundwave]

That Sonics team had *five* double digit scorers and three All-Star caliber players (Schremp was basically a border line All-Star). They were deep.

Shawn Kemp was also underrated ... a complete beast offensively and defensively in his prime before he let himself get fat. One of the greatest athletes to ever play in the NBA in his peak period.

[dreamwarrior]

George Karl promised to buy thiem all laptops if they won 60 games. They were $3-4k back then

[tmacattack33]

Wtf.

Gary Payton was a beast defensively and very good offensively.

He'd be close to top 5 today if not in the top 5.