ISH vote - Greatest NBA choker of all-time

[Deuce Bigalow]

Results:

Lebron - 30
Wilt - 13
Kobe - 6
Sprewell - 2
Nash - 2
Malone - 2
Harden - 1
Mcgrady - 1

[RightToCensor]

Kobe

[Euroleague]

Peyton

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Wilt the nikkas name is Wilt for what he does in the playoff:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

[HOoopCityJones]

The entire Houston Rocket's roster after they don't win shit over the next few years.

Current Era Ewing Knicks.

[Milbuck]

I'm honestly very surprised you didn't try to take a subtle little jab at...certain players.

"Go

Wilt post results"

[Genaro]

Lebron James

[Angel Face]

Lebron's grandpa, Wilt

[Smook A.]

LeBron James. 2011 NBA Finals. Biggest choke job ever

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/Lebron%20James/aka%20big%20choker/lebron-james-2011-nba-final-4q.jpg

[The-Legend-24]

http://mavsmag.com/redirk/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/258027_522846740410_162900200_30684324_6201276_o-500x373.jpg

[Thorn]

Sprewell

[HOoopCityJones]

http://cheesesteakswithbarkley.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/lebron-choke.jpg

[MP.Trey]

So is this the greatest player who was a choker, or the biggest choker in the history of the game?

[Deuce Bigalow]

So is this the greatest player who was a choker, or the biggest choker in the history of the game?
Biggest choker in the history of the game.

[dannywpt]

LeBron James

[HOoopCityJones]

If CP3 doesn't get his shit together this year he'll be the undisputed Biggest Choker of All Time as far as I'm concerned.

[Bandito]

Lebron

[jzek]

Wilt's lack of playoff accomplishments crowns him the king of all chokers.

Prince would be CP3.

[Cold soul]

Lebron with Wilt close 2nd.

[IncarceratedBob]

The facts say it all, look at Wilts choke rating it's pathetic. At one point I was a huge Wilt fan but after reviewing the stats his game fell down multiple levels when the games mattered most. Regular season warrior, as much as it pains me to say it

[red1]

how can a two-time finals mvp by the age of 29 be the biggest choker of all time. choked in the past? yes. biggest choker of all time? I think not

[red1]

I vote kobe

[HOoopCityJones]

how can a two-time finals mvp by the age of 29 be the biggest choker of all time? choked in the past? yes. biggest choker of all time? I think not

Dat Ray Allen three doe....LBJ was defeated bro.

Ray saved his life, literally.

[Demitri98]

Wilt.

[HOoopCityJones]

I vote kobe

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7255/7634653114_81defa95fb_z.jpg

[zoom17]

Kobe

[Deuce Bigalow]

I'm honestly very surprised you didn't try to take a subtle little jab at...certain players.

"Go

Wilt post results"
No agenda here.

[imdaman99]

LeHideinthecorner James

[Angel Face]

After having deep thoughts, I changed my mind... I'll pick Lebron over Wilt. I can't judge a guy who I never saw.

[Deuce Bigalow]

This is close three way race for me between Wilt, Karl Malone, and D-Rob. Not sure yet who to vote for.

[Rodmantheman]

Wilt

[Patrick Chewing]

Current Era Ewing Knicks.


That makes no sense

[HOoopCityJones]

That makes no sense

Give it a couple years, all that Hype will die down, then the reality will set in.

[kaiteng]

Spree.

[Angel Face]

LeHideinthecorner James

:oldlol:

[JohnFreeman]

Wilt

[dabigbaws]

lebron james

[MrC1991]

Wilt the stilt

[Keno]

kobe.

[Jameerthefear]

Wilt Chamberlain.

[truhooper]

Steve Nash

[Deuce Bigalow]

Stop changing votes damn it :oldlol:

From now on the first name that I saw is your vote.

[sd3035]

Bran James

[Black Mamba's B]

how can a two-time finals mvp by the age of 29 be the biggest choker of all time. choked in the past? yes. biggest choker of all time? I think not
And then you vote Kobe? :biggums:

Gonna go with LeBron followed by CWebb

[Deuce Bigalow]

Have to go with Wilt. Karl Malone would be #2 and Robinson #3.

[DMV2]

nobody said mcgrady yet?

[secund2nun]

Kobe by miles.

[red1]

And then you vote Kobe? :biggums:

Gonna go with LeBron followed by CWebb
yes

[Deuce Bigalow]

nobody said mcgrady yet?
Nope. You're gonna go with T-Mac?

[b1imtf]

Wilt.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Bump

[russwest0]

LeBron James.

[Big#50]

Biggest three choke jobs ever.
DROB in 95 WCF. He was shook with the attention and pressure.
Kobe in 04 finals. He just kept bricking.
Lebron in the 11 finals. He just kept biting his nails.

[Smook A.]

The son of Delonte West and Gloria James

[houston]

Steve Nash


webber a close second

[jcsrplumply]

LeBron

[Beatlezz]

Revlon.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Revlon.
Bran?

[LAZERUSS]

What is the "choker" criteria?

Is it losing in the first round of the playoffs eight times (most of which were routs), and missing the playoffs altogether another three more years, in an NBA year career?

Is it barely shooting 40% from the field over the course of seven Finals, and shooting even worse in the biggest games of the Finals?

How about being swept six times in the playoffs, and nearly a seventh?

Or is it losing with HCA seven times, and shooting below the post-season league average from the field in the majority of his post-seasons, and well below it in his Finals?

Maybe it is playing in the weakest decade in terms of champions, in NBA history, and only winning one title (and having arguably the easiest run to a title in NBA history), and then being consistently pounded by another peer in the 80's, and only being a third-wheel in one title, and his team winning yet another title despite his awful play?

Hell, is it an eleven-time champion who was either outplayed, or downright dominated in every one of eight post-season series by a supposed "choker", and who, along with his eight-time defending champion squad, was absolutely destroyed in one of them by that "choker"?

Or is it a player who led his team to a 1-9 playoff record in his first ten post-season games, and didn't win a ring until he had the best supporting roster in the league (which was good enough to go 55-27 one season, and barely lose a seven game series to a team which would go on and barely lose a seven game Finals...all withOUT him)? Or who put up playoff series of .400 and .416 shooting, and three straight Finals with FG%'s of .455, .427, and even .415?


Or is it a player who just annhilated his peers in his 11 "at-the-limit" games (nine game seven's, one game five in a best-of-five series, and one game three in a best-of-three series), and outscored his opposing centers in those 11 games by a margin of 30-10 ppg, all while shooting .581 from the field, and grabbing 27 rpg in the process?

Maybe it is the same player who played in six finals, and on average, easily outscored his opposing centers, while just crushing them on the glass by over, and outshooting them from the field by a .559 to .439 margin?

Maybe it is the same player who played in 29 post-season series, and outshot his opposing centers in 28 of them (and in the one in which he didn't, he missed 20 shots, while his opposing center missed 107, many of which he blocked); and was never outrebounded in any of them?

The same center, who in his "scoring seasons", covering 67 playoff games, averaged 30.4 ppg, 27.0 rpg, 4.5 apg, shot .515 from the field (in post-seasons that shot .420 in that same span), probably blocked 8+ shots per game, and routinely held his opposing centers to WAY below their normal regular season FG% (which he would do his entire post-season career BTW)?

This "choker" who took a last-place roster to a 49-26 record in his rookie season, and single-handedly led them past the first round, and then to a game six, two point loss, to a 59-16 team that would go on to win eight straight titles, and all with a 30-26 .500 FG% series?

And then two years later, with that same last-place roster, which was now older and played worse, to a game seven, two point loss, against that same 60-20 Dynasty team, and with a 34-26 series, in a post-season in which his teammates collectively shot .354 from the field?

And then, with an even worse roster (which couldn't beat a squad of rookies and scrubs in a scrimmage without him BTW), to a 48-32 record, and with a 39-26 .559 series, carried that crappy team past a team that was better, players 2-6, in a seven game series, and a competitive finals against a team that fielded eight HOFers?

And then was traded mis-season, for three players and a boatload of cash, to a team that had gone 34-46 the year before, and missed the playoffs...and then single-handedly carried that 40-40 team past a talent-laden team that had gone 48-32, in the first round of the playoffs...and then to a game seven, one point loss, against a 62-18 team at the peak of it's dynasty...and all with a 30 ppg, 31.rpg, .555 FG% series?

And then a couple of years later, completely carpet-bombed the supposed greatest defensive center in NBA history, and destroyed the eight-time defending champions (a near sweep, and a crushing clinching game win)?

The same center, only four months removed from major knee surgery, who took a 46-36 team to a game seven loss against a 60-22 team, and all with a 23 ppg, 24 rpg, .625 FG% Finals (the only 20-20 .600 Finals in NBA history BTW)?

This same center, at age 34, and again, playing on a surgically repaired knee, statistically outplaying a Kareem, in his greatest season, in a playoff series, in which he received a standing ovation as he left the floor in the last game...and the game was played in Milwaukee?

And then a year later, taking a team that had gone 48-34 the year before, to a 69-13 record, and then, by virtually every account, outplaying a peak Kareem in a six game series (and holding him to .414 shooting over the course of the last four games of that series)...and then, with his best teammate shooting .325 in the Finals, he put up a 19-23 .600 FG% Finals, leading his team to a Finals romp, and earning the FMVP?

Is that what we term a "choker?"

Again, let's get some consistent criteria here...

[Beatlezz]

Bran?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ogwtVdHQJg4/UB5s8WoZXKI/AAAAAAAACG0/hRqV9X4hnAo/s320/star-trek-nodding.gif

[Deuce Bigalow]

IDK you voted for Nash with your houston account Laz so you tell me.

[D.J.]

No love(or hate in this case) for Karl Malone?

[LAZERUSS]

IDK you voted for Nash with your houston account Laz so you tell me.

I guess he is the only one of my many "alts" here that took the time to cast a vote. Where the hell are the rest of them?

And I'm surprised he didn't vote for Hakeem, who certainly has the best resume for the "award"...a player who couldn't get past the first round in eight of his post-seasons (and almost all of those were one-sided routs); and then missed another three playoffs altogether, in his post-season career.

[LAZERUSS]

You want the resume of a "choker?"

How about Deuce's boy Kobe...


99-00
Regular season 22.5 ppg .468 FG%
Finals 15.6 ppg .367 FG%
Last Game of Series .296 FG%

00-01
Regular season 28.5 ppg .464 FG%
Finals 24.6 ppg .415 FG%
Last Game of Series .389 FG%

01-02
Regular season 25.2 ppg .469
Finals 26.8 ppg .514 FG%
Last Game of Series .438 FG%

03-04
Regular season 24.0 ppg .438 FG%
Finals 22.6 ppg .381 FG%
Last Game of Series .333 FG%

07-08
Regular season 28.3 ppg .459 FG%
Finals 25.7 ppg .405 FG%
Last Game of Series .318 FG%

08-09
Regular season 26.8 ppg .467 FG%
Finals 32.4 ppg .430 FG%
Last Game of Series .435 FG%

09-10
Regular season 27.0 ppg .456 FG%
Finals 28.6 ppg .405 FG%
Last Game of Series .250 FG%


Other noteables:


97-98
Swept by Utah 4-0.
Kobe averages 10.0 ppg on a .367 FG%

98-99
Swept by San Antonio 4-0
Last game of the series : Kobe 16 points on a .438 FG%

02-03
Lose to Spurs in WCF's, 4-2.
Last game loss by a score of 110-82 (Kobe with 20 points in a season in which he averaged 30 ppg)

03-04 Finals
Heavily favored Lakers lose to Pistons, 4-1.
In the clinching game five loss Kobe shoots .333 in a 100-87 loss (and LA was down 23 going into 4th quarter)

04-05
Team goes 34-48 and misses playoffs

05-06
Regular season 35.4 ppg .450
Playoffs 27.9 ppg .497
Last game (7) 24 points in a 121-90 loss (after blowing a 3-1 series lead)

06-07
Team goes 42-40
Loses in first round to Suns, 4-1.
Last game of that series, Kobe shoots .394 from the floor

07-08
Lakers are blown out by Celts in Finals.
In game four the Lakers blow a 23 point lead, and lose, in a game in which Kobe shot .316 from the field.
In the clinching game six loss, the Lakers lose by a Finals record margin of 131-92. Kobe shoots .318 from the floor.

10-11
Lakers with HCA are swept by the Mavs, 4-0.
In the clinching game four loss, LA loses 122-86. Kobe shoots .389 from the field.





Here was a player who played horribly the vast majority of his seven Finals, (and his only two decent one's came against the lowly Nets), and was even worse in the biggest games of those Finals, and was carried to three of his rings by Shaq. In fact, he COST his team's rings in '04 and '08.

[Deuce Bigalow]

I guess he is the only one of my many "alts" here that took the time to cast a vote. Where the hell are the rest of them?

And I'm surprised he didn't vote for Hakeem, who certainly has the best resume for the "award"...a player who couldn't get past the first round in eight of his post-seasons (and almost all of those were one-sided routs); and then missed another three playoffs altogether, in his post-season career.
As if you didn't suddenly start posting right after houston did...

Funny that even with all of Hakeem's "failures", he has a much better series record with HCA (9-2) than Wilt (13-5).

[LAZERUSS]

As if you didn't suddenly start posting right after houston did...

Funny that even with all of Hakeem's "failures", he has a much better series record with HCA (9-2) than Wilt (13-5).

11 seasons out of an 18 season career in which he was either eliminated in the first round, or didn't even make the playoffs at all. Never even played on a 60 win team. Couldn't win with Barkley and Pippen. Won one title in a season in which MJ took the year off (and the Bulls went 55-27 without him, and then lost a close game seven series to a 56-26 NY team that would go on to lose a close seven game series against Hakeem's favored 58-24 Rockets.) And then needed his teammates to just crush Shaq's in the '95 Finals to win that ring.

BTW, had Wilt had the "good fortune" to have been eliminated his eight first-round series, his scoring and efficiencies could have been substantially higher. He had first round series of 37 ppg, 37 ppg, 39 ppg, and 39 ppg. He also had first round playoff series of .629 and .617 shooting. And of course, Chamberlain was outshooting the post-season league averages by huge margins nearly every post-season.

[Deuce Bigalow]

You want the resume of a "choker?"

How about Deuce's boy Kobe...



Here was a player who played horribly the vast majority of his seven Finals, (and his only two decent one's came against the lowly Nets), and was even worse in the biggest games of those Finals, and was carried to three of his rings by Shaq. In fact, he COST his team's rings in '04 and '08.
Ok

Kobe's regular season/playoffs/finals stats

ppg/rpg/apg/spg/bpg/tov/fg%/ft%
SEASON: 25.5 / 5.3 / 4.8 / 1.5 / 0.5 / 3.0 / 45.4 / 83.8
PLAYOFF: 25.6 / 5.1 / 4.7 / 1.4 / 0.7 / 2.9 / 44.8 / 81.6
FINALS: 25.3 / 5.7 / 5.1 / 1.8 / 0.9 / 3.3 / 41.2 / 84.8
Btw I want to hear how he cost his team in 08 :oldlol:

[Deuce Bigalow]

11 seasons out of an 18 season career in which he was either eliminated in the first round, or didn't even make the playoffs at all. Never even played on a 60 win team. Couldn't win with Barkley and Pippen. Won one title in a season in which MJ took the year off (and the Bulls went 55-27 without him, and then lost a close game seven series to a 56-26 NY team that would go on to lose a close seven game series against Hakeem's favored 58-24 Rockets.) And then needed his teammates to just crush Shaq's in the '95 Finals to win that ring.

BTW, had Wilt had the "good fortune" to have been eliminated his eight first-round series, his scoring and efficiencies could have been substantially higher. He had first round series of 37 ppg, 37 ppg, 39 ppg, and 39 ppg. He also had first round playoff series of .629 and .617 shooting. And of course, Chamberlain was outshooting the post-season league averages by huge margins nearly every post-season.
He was definitely in his prime at the time playing with Barkley and Pippen in their primes...:rolleyes:

All that BS and he still won as many rings as Wilt and had a better record with HCA.

[LAZERUSS]

Ok

Btw I want to hear how he cost his team in 08 :oldlol:


07-08
Lakers are blown out by Celts in Finals.
In game four the Lakers blow a 23 point lead, and lose, in a game in which Kobe shot .316 from the field.

In the clinching game six loss, the Lakers lose by a Finals record margin of 131-92. Kobe shoots .318 from the floor.

For the series, Kobe shot .405 from the field. Considering that LA collectively shot .441 from the field in that series, (which included Kobe's horrific shooting), and Kobe led his team in TOs in that series (and by a wide margin.)

Hell, he did his best to lose game seven of the '10 Finals, as well, with that feeble 6-24 effort in a four point win.

[LAZERUSS]

BTW, I don't really consider Hakeem a "choker", nor do I honestly believe that Kobe is one, either.

And clearly, only complete idiots would rank Lebron and Wilt 1-2 in this asinine topic.

[BlazerRed]

Lechoke. 2011 was the worst choke-job in the history of the sport.

[Milbuck]

James Harden, 2012 Finals.

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Sport/Pix/pictures/2012/6/20/1340163786856/Dwyane-Wade-Miami-Heat-vs-007.jpg

http://i.usatoday.net/sports/_photos/2012/06/19/Hobbling-James-lifts-Heat-over-Thunder-for-3-1-series-lead-IH1N5VGR-x-large.jpg

http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/James+Harden+2012+NBA+Finals+Game+Four+OYucze3yLmM l.jpg

[Deuce Bigalow]

Hell, he did his best to lose game seven of the '10 Finals, as well, with that feeble 6-24 effort in a four point win.
'08 Game 4
4th quarter: Kobe had 10 points, 3 assists, 4-8 FG, 2-2 FT
-Leading scorer and assist man in that quarter for both teams
-Also had 10 assists for the game

'08 Game 6
Lakers made 8 FG in the first half, Kobe made 4 of them. Why does one player have half the made FGs on a team that's in the Finals?

Damn brah he sure cost em that ring doe :lol

[Asukal]

I vote for Wilt. :oldlol:

[zoom17]

Great thread to bump come June and how is a 29 year old Superstar with 2 Rings 2 FMVPS 4MVPS and is only halfway through his career a choker only at ISH

[LongLiveTheKing]

James Harden, 2012 Finals.

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Sport/Pix/pictures/2012/6/20/1340163786856/Dwyane-Wade-Miami-Heat-vs-007.jpg

http://i.usatoday.net/sports/_photos/2012/06/19/Hobbling-James-lifts-Heat-over-Thunder-for-3-1-series-lead-IH1N5VGR-x-large.jpg

http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/James+Harden+2012+NBA+Finals+Game+Four+OYucze3yLmM l.jpg
http://vlsportysexycool.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Harden-missing.jpg

[Mr. Jabbar]

Lebron no contest

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Great thread to bump come June and how is a 29 year old Superstar with 2 Rings 2 FMVPS 4MVPS and is only halfway through his career a choker only at ISH
Halfway:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
11 seasons 33k minutes+6k playoff minutes
he has 3 good years left before hes a shell of his former self

[Deuce Bigalow]

http://vlsportysexycool.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Harden-missing.jpg
A vote for Harden?

[DMV2]

Nope. You're gonna go with T-Mac?
The man never made it past the 1st Round when he actually played. 2009 and 2013 don't count.

[ForeverHeat]

Got to be Jason Collins if you catch my drift.

[Kblaze8855]

The top 3 vote getters have 9 rings and played a key role in all 9....all of them stepping up when it was time to win them.

Yet the dozens of people who led great teams to 15+ years of failure dont get a mention....

Elgin Baylor lost in the finals 8 times in a row. At one point he lost 3 game 7s straight He lost by 2 points in back to back finals game 7s.

And one year the Lakers actually made the finals without him(this was with West...before Wilt arrived). And the very NIGHT he retired his team started a 33 game win streak and won its first title in LA as he watched in the stands.

But guys with 2-5 rings are the biggest choker of all time.....

And funny enough...Baylor isnt either. He played well most of the time and just came up short.

Karl Malone had more head scratching flame outs. And he probably isnt the worst ever either.

The top 3 vote getters combined to make 17 finals.

The greatest chokers of all time? I suspect they didnt even get that far. Much less get there 4, 6, and 7 times.

And yes...for the record...I know this is largely a joke topic just to hate. But still.....

[Fazotronic]

lebron has had more important clutch moments in the last 3 years so i would give it to wilt.

guy just didn't had the killer instinct

gtfo with the regular season shit

[Psileas]

Give me the starting 5 of the supposed "choker" list over just about any 5 - and I'm talking about clutch situations.

[TheMan]

LeBron's 2011 Finals was the worst choke job I've ever seen. John Starks chucking all those bricks in GM 7 also comes to mind but at least he tried. LeBron, OTOH just looked scurred and was really shook. Didn't want anything to do with the rock. Plus, LBJ was the best player in the league, no way he should've performed that way. Dude looked like he purposely threw those Finals:oldlol:

He bounced back nicely but he was up to his old tricks again last year until that monster GM 7.

LeBron James gets my vote doe

[Deuce Bigalow]

The top 3 vote getters have 9 rings and played a key role in all 9....all of them stepping up when it was time to win them.

Yet the dozens of people who led great teams to 15+ years of failure dont get a mention....

Elgin Baylor lost in the finals 8 times in a row. At one point he lost 3 game 7s straight He lost by 2 points in back to back finals game 7s.

And one year the Lakers actually made the finals without him(this was with West...before Wilt arrived). And the very NIGHT he retired his team started a 33 game win streak and won its first title in LA as he watched in the stands.

But guys with 2-5 rings are the biggest choker of all time.....

And funny enough...Baylor isnt either. He played well most of the time and just came up short.

Karl Malone had more head scratching flame outs. And he probably isnt the worst ever either.

The top 3 vote getters combined to make 17 finals.

The greatest chokers of all time? I suspect they didnt even get that far. Much less get there 4, 6, and 7 times.

And yes...for the record...I know this is largely a joke topic just to hate. But still.....
Yeah 9 rings because you're adding Kobe's 5. 4 rings, 6 finals losses, 8 series losses with HCA between Lebron and Wilt. We gonna act like Wilt's numbers didn't drop come playoff time? We gonna act like Lebron played good in half his finals compared to his regular season performances? Funny thing is that Karl Malone has 8 series losses with HCA by himself and is "known" to be grouped in this topic but not a vote yet.

[riseagainst]

http://cheesesteakswithbarkley.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/lebron-choke.jpg

:roll:

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Kobe's '04, '08, and '10 Finals put him at the top.

Wilt is another popular one.

[riseagainst]

lebron definitely is the GOAT in this department.

it goes:

1. Lebron

2. Wilt

























3. whoever else....

[Deuce Bigalow]

41 votes in. Let's go to at least 50 votes. Who will be crowned ISH's greatest choker of all-time?

[Choke]

Choker? Oh, it is LeQuit, easily.

[SexSymbol]

LeBron.
2011 is the worst series by far ever.
And he quit on his team in 10 in a despicable fashion.

[Cold soul]

Choker? Oh, it is LeQuit, easily.

Your username fits perfectively with this thread. :lol

[AnaheimLakers24]

bran. damn hes legacy is an danger if most fans think of him like this

[kamil]

LeBron*

[TheMan]

bran. damn hes legacy is an danger if most fans think of him like this
He's running away with this vote:lol

He's probably one of the most disrespected great players ever. With what ISH thinks and kids LeBroning on YouTube:oldlol:

I actually like him but he does get overrated by his stans.

[D.J.]

I got Malone

[Deuce Bigalow]

Choker? Oh, it is LeQuit, easily.
strong username to post content ratio

[MrC1991]

I can't believe I forgot Karl Malone...one of the greatest PF ever, but hardly came through when it counted the most. The Jazz could of won those series against the Bulls. I'm glad they didn't, but they had the talent to do it.

[The-Legend-24]

LeGiveup

[ImKobe]

Choker? Oh, it is LeQuit, easily.

USN: Choke

should count as 20 votes

[Fudge]

LeBrun Jaim

[hangintheair]

Le3quarters James

[LAZERUSS]

Lebron will forever be linked to his 2011 Finals. If he goes on to win 5-6 MVPs, 3-4 FMVPs, and 5-6 rings, there will still be posters here constantly calling him a "choker" because of 2011 (and perhaps his 2007 Finals, when he took a roster of clowns to the Finals.)

His game seven stats have been posted here. His huge post-season scoring series are there for all to see. Four Finals, two titles, and two FMVPs. And before someone jumps in about the "Big Three", Bosh and Wade were no more than ordinary in the Finals last year (if that.)


As for Chamberlain...the man was nine points away, in four game seven's, from FOUR more rings. Carrying putrid rosters that played worse in the post-season, and then blew chunks all over the floor in EVERY game seven that his TEAM lost. All in series in which he either outplayed Russell, or wiped the floor with Russell (and particularly in the game seven's BTW.)

Had Russell been outscoring Wilt in those playoff series' by 30-15 margins; outrebounding him by 32-23 margins, and outshooting him by .556 - .358 margins, then yes, he would have been a huge choker. But the REALITY was, he was a "one-man wrecking crew" in the majority of those H2H series, and with his teammates just embarrassing themselves.

I have read those here who have blamed WILT for losing in the '70 Finals. Here was this "choker" Chamberlain...coming back from major knee surgery WAY AHEAD of even the most optimistic medical opinion at the time (Baylor was basically worthless for a year-and-a-half with a similar surgery, and yet Wilt returned in four months), and putting up a 23-24 .625 series. Just watch footage of game seven of that series on YouTube, and aside from his teammates just getting crushed (including West who was murdered by Frazier in that game), Wilt was clearly nowhere near 100% in that series. No elevation, no lateral quickness, and very limited offensive moves. Then, watch footage of Wilt in the clinching game five win in the '72 Finals. Hell, he blocked eight shots and had a couple of questionable goal-tending calls in that game. He was outrunning the entire Knicks team in that game (and as a sidenote, in the clinching game six win over the Bucks in the WCF's, he ran a 25 year old Kareem into the ground in the fourth quarter.)

The ONE playoff SERIES in which there is even a remote possibility of Wilt "choking" came in the '69 Finals. But it was his incompetent COACH who cost Wilt (and the Lakers) a ring. While Van Breda Kolff had Baylor shot-jacking the entire series (and playoffs), he had Wilt taking EIGHT FGAs per game. In fact, in the clinching game seven loss, early in the 4th quarter Russell picked up his 5th personal foul, and on the very next play LA went into Wilt for an easy lay-in. It would be the last time he would get the ball near the offensive hoop again. Hell, Mel Counts (who?) took more shots in that game seven (and like virtually everyone else not named West or Wilt, he shot horribly...going 4-13 from the field.)

And even in that ONE series, Chamberlain still outplayed Russell, and then badly outplayed him in that game seven (Wilt outscored Russell in that game, 18-6, outrebounded Russell, 27-21, and outshot him from the field 7-8 to 2-7...all in five minutes less.)

And it is truly laughable that idiots here use his "decline" in scoring (and really that was his only "decline" in the post-season), as "choking." In series in which he was putting up 34 ppg and 26 rpg. And again, Wilt faced RUSSELL and the greatest Dynasty in NBA history EIGHT times in the post-season, and nearly all of them were either in his first or second rounds. Go ahead and look up MJ in his FOUR straight playoff series against the "Bad Boys" (the last one of which came against a shell of what they had been prior.) Or go ahead and look up Shaq's numbers against the Spurs in his FIVE playoff series from '99 thru '04. Both players had DRAMATIC drops in scoring and FG%'s. Same with Kareem in his FIVE playoff series against Thurmond and Wilt in his '71 thru '73 post-seasons...just a STAGGERING drop in scoring and FG%'s.

And again, I could post paragraphs of Hakeem's, or Bird's, or Kobe's, or even KAJ's "choke jobs" in their post-season careers. Far more than Chamberlain ever had. Even MJ had his share of "failures." And, as we KNOW, Chamberlain routinely shelled RUSSELL, who was fortunate enough to have had far better rosters, and players who rose to the occasion in their biggest games, while Wilt's best teammates usually crumbled in their's.

If anything, Chamberlain was among the most "clutch" playoff performers of all-time. And for those that are not aware of it... in Wilt's 11 "at-the-limit" playoff games, he averaged 30 ppg, 27 rpg, and shot .581 from the field. All while dramatically reducing the numbers of his OPPOSING centers (and most assuredly dominating them all in every one of those games), most all of whom are in the HOF.

A "choker" he most certainly was NOT.

[BoutPractice]

It's all about reputation and attitude, not results. The clutch resume of Larry and Kobe, for example, doesn't stack up well with the perception.

Kobe's case is well documented. Wouldn't label him a choker but because of his spoiled/childish tendencies he has the habit of both quitting and bricking his team out of games/series.

In 04 his mindless chucking was an important factor in the Pistson's upset of the stacked Lakers. 06 is probably the most frustrating year in his career: he was absolutely godly as a scorer in the regular season, but when it mattered, he turned a 3-1 advantage into a blowout game 7 loss where he was so passive he was almost certainly trying to make a point. The series was very winnable and he threw it for purely selfish reasons. 08 and 10 weren't as bad as people make them out to be (if anything his game 7 effort was admirable because he contributed in other areas than scoring). 11 he let the Mavs sweep the Lakers, who were supposed to be on a threepeat campaign, without making too much of a fuss. He never established his will in the series, seemed like he was just going through the motions. Fortunately for him LeBron out-choked him so much it barely gets mentioned nowadays, but if LeBron, precisely, let say the Raptors sweep the Heat while averaging something like 21, 5 and 6 this playoffs people would never shut up about it because he doesn't have the same reputation.

The point is, we've already made up our minds before some of these guys play how we're going to spin their performance.

[wildchild]

I've been watching NBA for 30 years and I gotta to say, nothing beats Lebron in choking category.

If NBA will award Greatest Choker ever, He's on pace to steal the top spot from Wilt Chamberlain who is another choking fa99ot.

[red1]

The greatest elimination game performer in nba history is getting votes. This board is a joke. The biggest choker in league history is clearly mr six for twenty-four also known as snitchbe.

[kennethgriffin]

its wilt.. not lebron. common guys

lebrons the 2nd biggest choker ever.. but wilt was a no show in the playoffs 90% of the time

hes the biggest underachiver ever.. by far the GOAT regular season player... yet hes not even a top 50 all time playoff performer IMO

way bigger drop off than anyone

[Deuce Bigalow]

We've reached 50 votes. Is Lebron James ISH's official greatest choker of all-time? Do we keep going or is it official?

[red1]

We've reached 50 votes. Is Lebron James ISH's official greatest choker of all-time? Do we keep going or is it official?
Unbelievable. Board full of butthurt laker/bulls/celtics/thunder fans. Sometimes I feel like I am the only objective poster.

[IncarceratedBob]

The greatest elimination game performer in nba history is getting votes. This board is a joke. The biggest choker in league history is clearly mr six for twenty-four also known as snitchbe.
How many other players single handedly cost their team two NBA finals? I think it's Wilt but Lebron has a case.

[red1]

How many other players single handedly cost their team two NBA finals? I think it's Wilt but Lebron has a case.
He only choked one series. Granted it was quite the choke but still thats only one series.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Unbelievable. Board full of butthurt laker/bulls/celtics/thunder fans. Sometimes I feel like I am the only objective poster.
Who's your top 3 chokers?

[red1]

Tough one. Probably go with someone like nick anderson bricking those free throws

[Bandito]

He only choked one series. Granted it was quite the choke but still thats only one series.
He also choked the 2010 series and almost choked the Heat against the Spurs.

Even still his performance in 2011 trumps everything all choker before him has done. Specially him who was supposed to be a transcend kinda player.

[longhornfan1234]

Karl Malone

[zoom17]

The top 3 vote getters have 9 rings and played a key role in all 9....all of them stepping up when it was time to win them.

Yet the dozens of people who led great teams to 15+ years of failure dont get a mention....

Elgin Baylor lost in the finals 8 times in a row. At one point he lost 3 game 7s straight He lost by 2 points in back to back finals game 7s.

And one year the Lakers actually made the finals without him(this was with West...before Wilt arrived). And the very NIGHT he retired his team started a 33 game win streak and won its first title in LA as he watched in the stands.

But guys with 2-5 rings are the biggest choker of all time.....

And funny enough...Baylor isnt either. He played well most of the time and just came up short.

Karl Malone had more head scratching flame outs. And he probably isnt the worst ever either.

The top 3 vote getters combined to make 17 finals.

The greatest chokers of all time? I suspect they didnt even get that far. Much less get there 4, 6, and 7 times.

And yes...for the record...I know this is largely a joke topic just to hate. But still.....

:applause:

[LAZERUSS]

its wilt.. not lebron. common guys

lebrons the 2nd biggest choker ever.. but wilt was a no show in the playoffs 90% of the time

hes the biggest underachiver ever.. by far the GOAT regular season player... yet hes not even a top 50 all time playoff performer IMO

way bigger drop off than anyone

So that means you should be able to give us all here a ton of examples of Wilt's "no shows"...

please list them...

[Marlo_Stanfield]

its obvious there is only one answer.
Clutchbrick Bean Cryant.
2004/2006/2008/2010/2011/2012
basically choked half of his playoff runs away:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Deuce Bigalow]

So that means you should be able to give us all here a ton of examples of Wilt's "no shows"...

please list them...
'61 1st round
'63 :lol
'68 EDF
'69 Finals
'70 Finals
'73 Finals

4 of those are losses with HCA, I know there was another since he has 5 but can't remember off the top of my head.

I'll help on one of them.

'69 season: 20.5 ppg, 54.5 FG%, 39.2 FT%
'69 finals: 11.7 ppg, 50.0 FG%, 37.5 FT%

Wilt's '69 performance was the 2nd largest drop-off in ppg from regular season to finals in NBA history.

[red1]

He also choked the 2010 series and almost choked the Heat against the Spurs.

Even still his performance in 2011 trumps everything all choker before him has done. Specially him who was supposed to be a transcend kinda player.
No he disappeared in one game, game 5. Game 6 wasnt a choke. He has come through in many big games and in too many series to be considered a choker. Kobe 2004 finals was just as bad as lebron 2011.

[sd3035]

Bran has this one on lock

[LAZERUSS]

'61 1st round
'63 :lol
'68 EDF
'69 Finals
'70 Finals
'73 Finals

4 of those are losses with HCA, I know there was another since he has 5 but can't remember off the top of my head.

I'll help on one of them.

'69 season: 20.5 ppg, 54.5 FG%, 39.2 FT%
'69 finals: 11.7 ppg, 50.0 FG%, 37.5 FT%

Wilt's '69 performance was the 2nd largest drop-off in ppg from regular season to finals in NBA history.


'61. Wilt averaged 37 ppg and 23 rpg in that series. His teammates collectively shot .332 from the field. His two "HOF" teammates, Paul Arizin and Tom Gola...shot .325 and .271 respectively.

'63. Can't really count this one, since his team didn't even make the post-season. He must have "choked" in that regular season, though, right? Yep... 47.6 mpg, led the league in scoring at 44.8 ppg, in rebounding at 24.3 rpg, and set a then record of a .528 FG%. In fact, he led the league in FIFTEEN statistical categories, including running away with WIN-SHARES and setting a still record of 31.8 PER. BTW, in his nine H2H's with Russell, he outscored Russell by a 38 ppg to 14 ppg margin. He also averaged 44 ppg against Bellamy in his 10 H2H's. Oh, and he finished behind Red Kerr in the MVP balloting...in a season in which he outscored him, on average, by a 43-19 margin...including margins of 60-21 and 70-14.

Oh, and just how bad was that roster in '63? Wilt's new coach, Alex Hannum, condicted a pre-season scrimmage, sans Wilt, pitting the veterans against a team of rookies and scrubs. He was horrified when the scrubs won. BTW, Chamberlain then took THAT roster to a 48-32 record, thru the first round of the playoffs, with a seven-game series of 39 ppg, 23 rpg, and a .559 FG%, and then to the Finals, where his team, outgunned in HOFers, 8-2, lost a tough series against Russell's Celtics...in a series in which Wilt outscored Russell, per game, 29-11; outrebounded Russell, per game, 28-25; and outshot Russell from the field, .517 to .386.

'68. First of all, before I even begin, Chamberlain put up a 22-25-7 seven game series. Even more remarkable, he was nursing an assortment of injuries, incuding a partial tear in his calf (a similar injury to what rendered Reed a statue in the '70 Finals.) And recaps at the time had Chamberlain NOTICEABLY LIMPING throughout the series. Russell made the comment that "a lessor man would not have played), and yet Wilt played every minute of that series.

Now back to his 22-25-7 stat-line. ANY other player with a seven game series statline of 22-25-7 would still have his name echoed among the greatest playoff performances of all-time. But not Wilt. He was a "choker." BTW, in game seven, Wilt's teammates completely ignored him in the second half, and collectively shot .333 in that game.

'69. I have already mentioned that Wilt's '69 Finals was the worst series of his entire career. Still, he easily outplayed Russell. And in game seven, Wilt's incompetent coach benched Chamberlain in the last five minutes of a two point loss. Wilt shot 7-8 from the field, and his "replacement", Mel Counts, wound up shooting 4-13. Oh, and the clutch Russell shot 2-7. How about their teammates? Subtract Wilt's 7-8 and Russell's 2-7, and Boston collectively outshot LA in that game seven by a .477 to .360 margin.

'70. Wilt shredded his knee in the ninth game of the season, and had major knee surgery shortly thereafter. A very similar surgery to what Elgin Baylor had a few years earlier, and from which Baylor took well over a year before he was even remotely close to the player he had been before the injury.

Chamberlain miraculously came back only three months afterwards, albeit, at nowhere near 100%. In fact, he played in the last three regular season games, and averaged 12 ppg, 12 rpg, and shot .500 from the field in those three games.

In the first round of the playoffs, the Lakers fell behind the Suns, 3-1. In the last three games of that series, Chamberlain hung games of 36-14 with 10 blocks; 12-26 11 blocks, and a game seven of 30-27 with 11 blocks, and LA came all the way back to win that series.

They would sweep Bellamy's Hawks in the next round, and then move on the Finals, where Chamberlain's 46-36 Lakers would face the 60-22 Knicks and the league MVP Willis Reed. Wilt battled Reed to a draw in the first four games of that series. In game five, and with his team already down by 10 points, Reed went down with a tear in his quad. However, with West and Wilt only getting a total of FIVE second half shots...COMBINED (and basically being mauled the entire second half), the Knicks came back to win that game. In game six, Chamberlain exploded for 45 points, on 20-27 shooting, with 27 rebounds, and the Lakers blew out NY. Now, everyone here knows that Reed hobbled out for game seven, and with his teammates just shelling Wilt's from the outset, that seventh game was a blowout loss for the Lakers. However, Wilt was the ONLY Laker to play well, and even "Mr. Clutch" Jerry West flopped. Wilt hung a 21-24, 10-16 game seven, but it didn't matter. For the series, this one-legged Wilt put up the only 20-20 .600 Finals in NBA history (23 ppg, 24 rpg, and a .625 FG%.)


So, those were examples of a Wilt "not showing up" in his playoffs.

BTW, how about the rest of Chamberlain's 29 post-season series? Series like his '65 EDF's, when he took a 40-40 team to a game seven, one point loss, against Russell's 62-18 Celtics, and with a 30 ppg, 31 rpg, .555 FG% series, which included a game seven of 30 points, on 12-15 shooting from the field, and 32 rebounds? I could list playoff series-after playoff series, in which Chamberlain just overwhelmed the opposition.

[Bandito]

No disappeared in one game, game 5. Game 6 wasnt a choke. He has come through in many big games and in too many series to be considered a choker. Kobe 2004 finals was just as bad as lebron 2011.
Dude Kobe went down fighting. Lebron just choke against the Mavs defense. Way different thing. Also if you think last finals the first 5 games and a half he played good i just cant respect you anymore. One thing is to believe kobe 04 finals were as bad as 20111, as that is subjective By the person opinion, but Lebron 5 games and three quarters were atrocious until the last quarter of game 6 of the 2013 finals.

[DFish24]

Lebron easily. Greatest choke in NBA History. A supposed "GOAT" level player joining a top 3 player in the league along with a top 10 player. Then single handedly costing his team the title while getting outplayed by role players. Just pathetic.

[K Xerxes]

To suggest that arguably the greatest elimination game performer in history is a choker is practically paradoxical. Game 6 Boston alone is more clutch than what any player in NBA history, save a very select few, have achieved. This guy (along with Kobe) is hated on too much, it's pretty pathetic.

[LAZERUSS]

To suggest that arguably the greatest elimination game performer in history is a choker is practically paradoxical. Game 6 Boston alone is more clutch than what any player in NBA history, save a very select few, have achieved. This guy (along with Kobe) is hated on too much, it's pretty pathetic.


I think you must be on the wrong forum. You are too knowledgable for this one.

[Deuce Bigalow]

'61. Wilt averaged 37 ppg and 23 rpg in that series. His teammates collectively shot .332 from the field. His two "HOF" teammates, Paul Arizin and Tom Gola...shot .325 and .271 respectively.

'63. Can't really count this one, since his team didn't even make the post-season. He must have "choked" in that regular season, though, right? Yep... 47.6 mpg, led the league in scoring at 44.8 ppg, in rebounding at 24.3 rpg, and set a then record of a .528 FG%. In fact, he led the league in FIFTEEN statistical categories, including running away with WIN-SHARES and setting a still record of 31.8 PER. BTW, in his nine H2H's with Russell, he outscored Russell by a 38 ppg to 14 ppg margin. He also averaged 44 ppg against Bellamy in his 10 H2H's. Oh, and he finished behind Red Kerr in the MVP balloting...in a season in which he outscored him, on average, by a 43-19 margin...including margins of 60-21 and 70-14.

Oh, and just how bad was that roster in '63? Wilt's new coach, Alex Hannum, condicted a pre-season scrimmage, sans Wilt, pitting the veterans against a team of rookies and scrubs. He was horrified when the scrubs won. BTW, Chamberlain then took THAT roster to a 48-32 record, thru the first round of the playoffs, with a seven-game series of 39 ppg, 23 rpg, and a .559 FG%, and then to the Finals, where his team, outgunned in HOFers, 8-2, lost a tough series against Russell's Celtics...in a series in which Wilt outscored Russell, per game, 29-11; outrebounded Russell, per game, 28-25; and outshot Russell from the field, .517 to .386.

'68. First of all, before I even begin, Chamberlain put up a 22-25-7 seven game series. Even more remarkable, he was nursing an assortment of injuries, incuding a partial tear in his calf (a similar injury to what rendered Reed a statue in the '70 Finals.) And recaps at the time had Chamberlain NOTICEABLY LIMPING throughout the series. Russell made the comment that "a lessor man would not have played), and yet Wilt played every minute of that series.

Now back to his 22-25-7 stat-line. ANY other player with a seven game series statline of 22-25-7 would still have his name echoed among the greatest playoff performances of all-time. But not Wilt. He was a "choker." BTW, in game seven, Wilt's teammates completely ignored him in the second half, and collectively shot .333 in that game.

'69. I have already mentioned that Wilt's '69 Finals was the worst series of his entire career. Still, he easily outplayed Russell. And in game seven, Wilt's incompetent coach benched Chamberlain in the last five minutes of a two point loss. Wilt shot 7-8 from the field, and his "replacement", Mel Counts, wound up shooting 4-13. Oh, and the clutch Russell shot 2-7. How about their teammates? Subtract Wilt's 7-8 and Russell's 2-7, and Boston collectively outshot LA in that game seven by a .477 to .360 margin.

'70. Wilt shredded his knee in the ninth game of the season, and had major knee surgery shortly thereafter. A very similar surgery to what Elgin Baylor had a few years earlier, and from which Baylor took well over a year before he was even remotely close to the player he had been before the injury.

Chamberlain miraculously came back only three months afterwards, albeit, at nowhere near 100%. In fact, he played in the last three regular season games, and averaged 12 ppg, 12 rpg, and shot .500 from the field in those three games.

In the first round of the playoffs, the Lakers fell behind the Suns, 3-1. In the last three games of that series, Chamberlain hung games of 36-14 with 10 blocks; 12-26 11 blocks, and a game seven of 30-27 with 11 blocks, and LA came all the way back to win that series.

They would sweep Bellamy's Hawks in the next round, and then move on the Finals, where Chamberlain's 46-36 Lakers would face the 60-22 Knicks and the league MVP Willis Reed. Wilt battled Reed to a draw in the first four games of that series. In game five, and with his team already down by 10 points, Reed went down with a tear in his quad. However, with West and Wilt only getting a total of FIVE second half shots...COMBINED (and basically being mauled the entire second half), the Knicks came back to win that game. In game six, Chamberlain exploded for 45 points, on 20-27 shooting, with 27 rebounds, and the Lakers blew out NY. Now, everyone here knows that Reed hobbled out for game seven, and with his teammates just shelling Wilt's from the outset, that seventh game was a blowout loss for the Lakers. However, Wilt was the ONLY Laker to play well, and even "Mr. Clutch" Jerry West flopped. Wilt hung a 21-24, 10-16 game seven, but it didn't matter. For the series, this one-legged Wilt put up the only 20-20 .600 Finals in NBA history (23 ppg, 24 rpg, and a .625 FG%.)


So, those were examples of a Wilt "not showing up" in his playoffs.

BTW, how about the rest of Chamberlain's 29 post-season series? Series like his '65 EDF's, when he took a 40-40 team to a game seven, one point loss, against Russell's 62-18 Celtics, and with a 30 ppg, 31 rpg, .555 FG% series, which included a game seven of 30 points, on 12-15 shooting from the field, and 32 rebounds? I could list playoff series-after playoff series, in which Chamberlain just overwhelmed the opposition.
Why you writing essays doe? If you compare his regular season numbers to playoffs and to finals its a clear steep decline. In those series I mentioned they took nose dives. I'll give you one, Wilt's FG% dropped by 20(twenty) from his '73 regular season to the finals.

[aj1987]

Lebron 5 games and three quarters were atrocious until the last quarter of game 6 of the 2013 finals.
Dude had 18/18/10 in Game 1, 17/8/7/3/3 in Game 2, 33/11/4/2/2 in Game 4, and 25/6/8/4 in Game 5. He had 2 good games, 2 mediocre games, and 1 flat out garbage game (game 3). In what world are 18/18/10 and 33/11/4/2/2 "atrocious"?

[Black Mamba's B]

Unbelievable. Board full of butthurt laker/bulls/celtics/thunder fans. Sometimes I feel like I am the only objective poster.
you're one of the biggest laker haters on here

[Combat Wombat]

Toss up between Wilt and Lebron.

[aboss4real24]

Lebron

with pippen in a close 2nd

[LAZERUSS]

Why you writing essays doe? If you compare his regular season numbers to playoffs and to finals its a clear steep decline. In those series I mentioned they took nose dives. I'll give you one, Wilt's FG% dropped by 20(twenty) from his '73 regular season to the finals.

"Steep decline" ?

Chamberlain played 52 games of his 160 total playoff games in his "scoring seasons." His teammates were so horrible one year that he didn't even make the playoffs, in his second greatest scoring season (44.8 ppg.) And before you make some ridiculous comment about that, keep in mind that Kobe didn't make the playoffs one year, either. If you are going to blame Wilt, then you would also have to blame Kobe.

Psileas has pointed it out, but Wilt had as many playoff series in which he exceeded his regular season scoring, as he did in which he scored less.

Amd, as I have mentioned, Chamberlain faced RUSSELL and the Celtics, EIGHT times in the post-season. I won't bother posting their stats, but anyone here can look them up...MJ in his FOUR playoff series against the "Bad Boys" (the last of which came against a shell of what they had been BTW); Shaq in his FIVE series against the Spurs from '99 thru '04; and a peak Kareem in his FIVE playoff series against Thurmond and Wilt from '71 thru '73...all with DRAMATIC drops in scoring and FG%'s.

Not only that, but for most of his playoff career, Wilt didn't have the luxury of playing several cup-cake series before running into the best team. Keep in mind that in Wilt's 13 post-seasons, he won two rings, and lost against the eventual champion TEN times. Teams like Russell's HOF-laden Celtics; or the '70 Knicks; or the '71 Bucks. Hell, the '73 Knicks, despite having "only" a 57-25 record, featured SIX HOFers, and knocked off the 68-14 Celtics en route to beating Wilt's injury-plagued Lakers (and all four losses were decided in the last minute BTW.) Again, in his "scoring seasons" he ran into Russell's Celtics in the either his first, or second round, in five of the six playoff seasons.

And because he was running into Russell almost immediately, his "decline" in scoring is not nearly as dramatic. For example, his biggest scoring "drop" in his post-season career came in his 61-62 season, when he averaged 35.0 ppg in a season in which he averaged 50.4 ppg. First of all, it is laughable to even consider a 35 ppg post-season as a "choke job." And secondly, he faced Russell in seven playoff games, and "only" averaged 34 ppg. But, in his 10 regular season H2H's with Russell, he "only" averaged 40 ppg. And, in the '62 regular season, the NBA averaged 119 ppg, while in that post-season, it dropped to 113 ppg.

Of course, you equate a "decline" as a "choke job." Again, using your ridiculous analogy, a player putting up a 34-26 playoff series "choked" because of his decline.

And you mentioned Wilt's FG% decline in his last Finals, compared to his regular season (from .727 to .525.) Why didn't you also mention that Wilt shot .540 over the course of his regular season career, and .559 over the course of his six Finals? Or that he outshot his starting center in those six Finals by a .559 to .439 margin? Or that Wilt ELEVATED his rebounding over the course of his entire playoff career, and downright wiped the floor with EVERY opposing center he faced in that regard. And he faced a HOF starting center in 105 of his 160 playoff games, (as well as a multiple all-star in another 26.)

One more time, though, it is just laughable that you consider a "decline" as a "choke job." Or, claim that Wilt "choked" in '61 because his TEAM lost a playoff series, despite Wilt putting up a 37 ppg 23 rpg series (in a season in which he averaged 38-27.) Yet you ignore Kobe's HUGE drop in FG% effciency in his Finals (and an even more dramatic drop in his biggest games of those Finals.) Or that Bird lost with HCA seven times, including being swept in one of them. Or that Hakeem couldn't even get past the first round in the majority of his playoff career (and that is even worse when you factor in that he didn't even make the playoffs in three more seasons.) Or that KAJ's FG% against Thurmond and Wilt, in his five playoff series against them, went from a regular season average of .563, down to .450 in that span. Or that Shaq was swept SIX times (and nearly a seventh.) Or that Russell, despite playing on teams that beat Wilt's seven times, was outplayed, or downright crushed in all of them by Wilt (and that his FG% "decline" against Wilt was an even larger drop against his regular league average, than Wilt's decline against him from Chamberlain's regular seasons.)

I assume that Shaq must have "choked" against Hakeem in '95, and Wallace in '04, because his favored teams lost (despite putting up huge numbers against both.) Or that Magic was a playoff "choker" because his FG% "dropped" from .520 in his regular season career, down to "only" .506 in his post-seasons (and .516 in his Finals.) And certainly KAJ must have been a "choker" because his playoff FG% declined from .559 in his regular season career down to .533 in his playoff career. And how about Bird, whose FG% dropped from .496 down to .472 in his playoffs, and an even worse .455 in his five Finals. And what about Jordan having playoff series of .400 and .417, and then three straight Finals of .455, .427, and even .415?

In Wilt's first eight seasons, which covered his seven "scoring seasons" and his peak '67 season, he averaged 37.6 ppg, 24.6 rpg, and shot .522 from the field. In that same span, and in his 67 playoff games, he averaged 30.4 ppg, 27.0 rpg, 4.5 apg, and shot .515 from the field (in post-season leagues that shot .421 on average in that span)....COMBINED. Keep in mind that he missed the '63 playoffs altogether in a season in which he averaged 44.8 ppg on .528 shooting. So is a 30-27-5 .515 (outshooting the league average by nearly 10%) considered a "choke job?" Again, give me the list of players who had ONE SERIES in which they put up those numbers, much less over the course of 67 straight games. Hell, you would be hard-pressed to find another player with ONE post-season GAME with those numbers.

And, as always, you completely ignore the fact that Wilt DRAMATICALLY reduced the efficiencies of his OPPOSING centers, all while generally outscoring them by a solid margin, outshooting them by a huge margin, and just crushing them on the glass. How come you never mention those facts in your descriptions of his "choke jobs?"

Your idea of a "choker" is much different than mine.

[The-Legend-24]

LeDiva running away with this. :roll:

[Dro]

LeDiva running away with this. :roll:
Which is a joke and I'm not even a Lebron fan....

[LAZERUSS]

Lebron and Wilt running 1-2...

And if there were a general draft in the NBA in the last five seasons, Lebron would have been taken #1 in every season.

Same with Chamberlain in EVERY season of the 60's.

These "chokers" who put up massive post-seasons.

[Andrei89]

The greatest elimination game player of all time labeled by ISH as the biggest choker.

I bet they are making fun of this thread on other forums on a daily basis.

:roll: :roll:

[livinglegend]

I cant believe some people are actually trying to defend Wilt and Lebron.
It s a troll thread. Reasoning wont do anything. Those trolls want you to write long paragraphs for nothing so they can feel better. Arguments wont do anything. It s a troll trap.
BTW, those Lebron votes are by 4-5 people with multiple alts. Sad life some of these people have. :oldlol:

[livinglegend]

The greatest elimination game player of all time labeled by ISH as the biggest choker.

I bet they are making fun of this thread on other forums on a daily basis.

:roll: :roll:

If you look closely, the members voting for Lebron are all of those that are butthurt because of Lebron s back2back championships. They are OKC, Lakers, Celtics, Bulls and many other teams fans that Lebron has been owning recently. Those members are filled with anger. They are full of anger and close to explosion. They are like a balloon filled with lots of air. A little more, it will explode.
In order to not explode, they need to take out that anger. They do that by trolling reasonable Heat fans and by making stupid statements. If you fall in their trolling trap, they take that anger out, if you dont, they will feel more anger and eventually explode.

[Bandito]

If you look closely, the members voting for Lebron are all of those that are butthurt because of Lebron s back2back championships. They are OKC, Lakers, Celtics, Bulls and many other teams fans that Lebron has been owning recently. Those members are filled with anger. They are full of anger and close to explosion. They are like a balloon filled with lots of air. A little more, it will explode.
In order to not explode, they need to take out that anger. They do that by trolling reasonable Heat fans and by making stupid statements. If you fall in their trolling trap, they take that anger out, if you dont, they will feel more anger and eventually explode.
Said the guy whos life revolve around s*cking Lebron's c*ck.:lol

[livinglegend]

Said the guy whos life revolve around s*cking Lebron's c*ck.:lol

sorry i wont fall for it and make you sad life a little happier. :oldlol:
Nice try.

[PsychoBe]

The greatest elimination game player of all time labeled by ISH as the biggest choker.

I bet they are making fun of this thread on other forums on a daily basis.

:roll: :roll:

dude has played like 4 of them. but of course you don't care about the context, you just listen to what espn feeds you :facepalm

let me remind you as to why people are constantly voting him.

http://mavsmag.com/redirk/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/photo-1-500x373.jpg

just absolutely disgusting.

[red1]

Dude Kobe went down fighting. Lebron just choke against the Mavs defense. Way different thing. Also if you think last finals the first 5 games and a half he played good i just cant respect you anymore. One thing is to believe kobe 04 finals were as bad as 20111, as that is subjective By the person opinion, but Lebron 5 games and three quarters were atrocious until the last quarter of game 6 of the 2013 finals.
How is that different? Kobe chucked his team out of a championship. Getting locked up by tayshaun prince or playing passive it doesnt make a difference. And last years fmvp was well deserved. He sucked in game three and was mediocre games 1 and 2 but he more than made up for it in games 4 6 and 7.

[Fudge]

If you look closely, the members voting for Lebron are all of those that are butthurt because of Lebron s back2back championships. They are OKC, Lakers, Celtics, Bulls and many other teams fans that Lebron has been owning recently. Those members are filled with anger. They are full of anger and close to explosion. They are like a balloon filled with lots of air. A little more, it will explode.
In order to not explode, they need to take out that anger. They do that by trolling reasonable Heat fans and by making stupid statements. If you fall in their trolling trap, they take that anger out, if you dont, they will feel more anger and eventually explode.
My IQ just dropped after reading this.

[red1]

The greatest elimination game player of all time labeled by ISH as the biggest choker.

I bet they are making fun of this thread on other forums on a daily basis.

:roll: :roll:
They dont even believe it themselves

[ArbitraryWater]

It's all about reputation and attitude, not results. The clutch resume of Larry and Kobe, for example, doesn't stack up well with the perception.

Kobe's case is well documented. Wouldn't label him a choker but because of his spoiled/childish tendencies he has the habit of both quitting and bricking his team out of games/series.

In 04 his mindless chucking was an important factor in the Pistson's upset of the stacked Lakers. 06 is probably the most frustrating year in his career: he was absolutely godly as a scorer in the regular season, but when it mattered, he turned a 3-1 advantage into a blowout game 7 loss where he was so passive he was almost certainly trying to make a point. The series was very winnable and he threw it for purely selfish reasons. 08 and 10 weren't as bad as people make them out to be (if anything his game 7 effort was admirable because he contributed in other areas than scoring). 11 he let the Mavs sweep the Lakers, who were supposed to be on a threepeat campaign, without making too much of a fuss. He never established his will in the series, seemed like he was just going through the motions. Fortunately for him LeBron out-choked him so much it barely gets mentioned nowadays, but if LeBron, precisely, let say the Raptors sweep the Heat while averaging something like 21, 5 and 6 this playoffs people would never shut up about it because he doesn't have the same reputation.

The point is, we've already made up our minds before some of these guys play how we're going to spin their performance.

Let me add some more truth: (Only thing I disagree with is Kobe 2010 not being as bad as people make it to be)

This is what bugs me with today's media and people's opinion. They don't even care about actual play anymore, they're narrow minded and believe what they're told.

Wade was given the clutch label in 2006, so whenever his name comes up, D-WADE IS CLUTCH!!! It doesn't even matter that he's 1-10 in the Playoffs with the Game on the Line... it doesn't matter.

ESPN and other media outlets labeled him clutch, so thats what he is and always will be.

KOBE, another guy, given the clutch tag to his name, so that's what he is.
No amount of bricks, 40% finals series', pathetic game 7's and elimination game statistics, 7-28 in clutch situations in the playoffs, can change that...

He's Kobe, the BLACK MAMBA! PHYVE RANGZ; 81 POINTS! Clutch Gene, Killer Instinct, Will to Win!
And all that other hot garbage...

LeBron, a guy given the choking tag, and not just since 2011, but earlier in his Cavalier days, because he couldn't carry a team of scrubs, with Mo Williams as 2nd best player, to the promised land.

What he did afterwards since playing on a talented team?

2 Titles/2 Finals MVP's? Great all around Game 7/Elimination game stats? 7-16 44% with the Game on the Line in the Playoffs? (Extremely high rate)

Doesn't even matter... Why would it? All he does is fill up the box score, right? He's LeDiva, LeQuit, LeChoke, "The Frozen One"....

He can play as good as he wants to, point is, people will keep hanging on to their idiotic narratives and fantasy worlds.

[JerryWest]

LeBron.

[livinglegend]

My IQ just dropped after reading this.

Human defense mechanism.
After reading the post for the first time, your brain couldnt accept the truth, so it dropped its IQ. When you read it the 2nd time, your brain couldnt understand the post anymore thus, it wouldnt have to fight the harsh truth.

BTW, your IQ was already low, now.............
damn!

[ArbitraryWater]

Let me add some more truth: (Only thing I disagree with is Kobe 2010 not being as bad as people make it to be)

This is what bugs me with today's media and people's opinion. They don't even care about actual play anymore, they're narrow minded and believe what they're told.

Wade was given the clutch label in 2006, so whenever his name comes up, D-WADE IS CLUTCH!!! It doesn't even matter that he's 1-10 in the Playoffs with the Game on the Line... it doesn't matter.

ESPN and other media outlets labeled him clutch, so thats what he is and always will be.

KOBE, another guy, given the clutch tag to his name, so that's what he is.
No amount of bricks, 40% finals series', pathetic game 7's and elimination game statistics, 7-28 in clutch situations in the playoffs, can change that...

He's Kobe, the BLACK MAMBA! PHYVE RANGZ; 81 POINTS! Clutch Gene, Killer Instinct, Will to Win!
And all that other hot garbage...

LeBron, a guy given the choking tag, and not just since 2011, but earlier in his Cavalier days, because he couldn't carry a team of scrubs, with Mo Williams as 2nd best player, to the promised land.

What he did afterwards since playing on a talented team?

2 Titles/2 Finals MVP's? Great all around Game 7/Elimination game stats? 7-16 44% with the Game on the Line in the Playoffs? (Extremely high rate)

Doesn't even matter... Why would it? All he does is fill up the box score, right? He's LeDiva, LeQuit, LeChoke, "The Frozen One"....

He can play as good as he wants to, point is, people will keep hanging on to their idiotic narratives and fantasy worlds.

Whoah! Pretty much this :applause:

(Ugh, forgot to log out)

[sd3035]

livinglegend = gotten to :lol

[Andrei89]

Whoah! Pretty much this :applause:

(Ugh, forgot to log out)


:roll: :roll:

[Fudge]

Human defense mechanism.
After reading the post for the first time, your brain couldnt accept the truth, so it dropped its IQ. When you read it the 2nd time, your brain couldnt understand the post anymore thus, it wouldnt have to fight the harsh truth.

BTW, your IQ was already low, now.............
damn!
Dropped even more, bro. Keep going. I'm finna stoop to your level soon nuff. :lol Shit.

[livinglegend]

Dropped even more, bro. Keep going. I'm finna stoop to your level soon nuff. :lol Shit.

that weak, you lost, i won the trolling round. :banana: :banana:

next.

[ArbitraryWater]

Dropped even more, bro. Keep going. I'm finna stoop to your level soon nuff. :lol Shit.

lmfaoo! I missed that avy haha

[Deuce Bigalow]

Lebron and Wilt running 1-2...

And if there were a general draft in the NBA in the last five seasons, Lebron would have been taken #1 in every season.

Same with Chamberlain in EVERY season of the 60's.

These "chokers" who put up massive post-seasons.
Wilt has the highest choking rating of alltime. You think that's some kind of coincidence?

Let me boil it down:

Advanced Formula: Losses with HCA + playoff ppg drop + finals ppg drop + playoff rpg drop + finals rpg drop + playoff apg drop + finals apg drop + playoff fg% drop + finals fg% drop + playoff ft% drop + finals ft% drop - rings

Wilt Chamberlain: 5 + (30.1-22.5) + (30.1-18.6) + (22.9-24.9) + (22.9-24.6) + (4.4-4.2) + (4.4-3.8) + (54.0-52.2) + (54.0-55.9) + (51.1-46.5) + (51.1-37.5) - 2 = 37.3

Karl Malone: 8 + (25.0-24.7) + (25.0-19.6) + (10.1-10.7) + (10.1-9.6) + (3.6-3.2) + (3.6-3.3) + (51.6-46.3) + (51.6-46.0) + (74.2-73.6) + (74.2-67.6) - 0 = 32.4

David Robinson: 6 + (21.1-18.1) + (21.1-13.5) + (10.6-10.6) + (10.6-9.4) + (2.5-2.3) + (2.5-1.5) + (51.8-47.9) + (51.8-49.5) + (73.6-70.8) + (73.6-69.2) - 2 = 30.4

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-eYas97sSKYo/UYmNczokoBI/AAAAAAAABS8/sC_XiMFXtBo/reggie%252520miller%252520choke.jpg

[livinglegend]

Wilt has the highest choking rating of alltime. You think that's some kind of coincidence?

Let me boil it down:

Advanced Formula: Losses with HCA + playoff ppg drop + finals ppg drop + playoff rpg drop + finals rpg drop + playoff apg drop + finals apg drop + playoff fg% drop + finals fg% drop + playoff ft% drop + finals ft% drop - rings

Wilt Chamberlain: 5 + (30.1-22.5) + (30.1-18.6) + (22.9-24.9) + (22.9-24.6) + (4.4-4.2) + (4.4-3.8) + (54.0-52.2) + (54.0-55.9) + (51.1-46.5) + (51.1-37.5) - 2 = 37.3

Karl Malone: 8 + (25.0-24.7) + (25.0-19.6) + (10.1-10.7) + (10.1-9.6) + (3.6-3.2) + (3.6-3.3) + (51.6-46.3) + (51.6-46.0) + (74.2-73.6) + (74.2-67.6) - 0 = 32.4

David Robinson: 6 + (21.1-18.1) + (21.1-13.5) + (10.6-10.6) + (10.6-9.4) + (2.5-2.3) + (2.5-1.5) + (51.8-47.9) + (51.8-49.5) + (73.6-70.8) + (73.6-69.2) - 2 = 30.4

Russell has the lowest!
Another argument for him being the GOAT! :applause: :applause:

[LAZERUSS]

Wilt has the highest choking rating of alltime. You think that's some kind of coincidence?

Let me boil it down:

Advanced Formula: Losses with HCA + playoff ppg drop + finals ppg drop + playoff rpg drop + finals rpg drop + playoff apg drop + finals apg drop + playoff fg% drop + finals fg% drop + playoff ft% drop + finals ft% drop - rings

Wilt Chamberlain: 5 + (30.1-22.5) + (30.1-18.6) + (22.9-24.9) + (22.9-24.6) + (4.4-4.2) + (4.4-3.8) + (54.0-52.2) + (54.0-55.9) + (51.1-46.5) + (51.1-37.5) - 2 = 37.3

Karl Malone: 8 + (25.0-24.7) + (25.0-19.6) + (10.1-10.7) + (10.1-9.6) + (3.6-3.2) + (3.6-3.3) + (51.6-46.3) + (51.6-46.0) + (74.2-73.6) + (74.2-67.6) - 0 = 32.4

David Robinson: 6 + (21.1-18.1) + (21.1-13.5) + (10.6-10.6) + (10.6-9.4) + (2.5-2.3) + (2.5-1.5) + (51.8-47.9) + (51.8-49.5) + (73.6-70.8) + (73.6-69.2) - 2 = 30.4

Wow...conclusive evidence. Using some half-baked formula that doesn't take into account their actual PRODUCTION (just a so-called "decline"), and even that is massively distorted (at least in Wilt's case), since Chamberlain only 52 of Wilt's 160 post-season games came in his "scoring seasons", 30 of which were against RUSSELL.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Russell has the lowest!
Another argument for him being the GOAT! :applause: :applause:
Russ, MJ, and West have a negative rating.

[LAZERUSS]

Russell has the lowest!
Another argument for him being the GOAT! :applause: :applause:

As a sidenote, Chamberlain held Russell to a considerably lower post-season FG% "decline", as compared to his regular season FG%'s, than Russell did to Wilt.

Not to mention that Wilt was just castrating Russell in scoring and rebounding in the process.

[livinglegend]

Russ, MJ, and West have a negative rating.

Who has the lowest?
Gotta be Russell.

[AirTupac]

Shouldn't even be a vote, the first name that popped up in everyone head was none other than LeBran.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Wow...conclusive evidence. Using some half-baked formula that doesn't take into account their actual PRODUCTION (just a so-called "decline"), and even that is massively distorted (at least in Wilt's case), since Chamberlain only 52 of Wilt's 160 post-season games came in his "scoring seasons", 30 of which were against RUSSELL.
1960-1966 Wilt "scoring prime"

2 + (39.6-32.8) + (39.6-29.2) + (24.8-26.4) + (24.8-27.6) + (3.4-3.2) + (3.4-2.4) + (51.1-50.5) + (51.1-52.7) + (54.8-52.3) + (54.8-41.5) - 0 = 30.8

Only Karl Malone has a higher rating, that's only if were removing Wilt's entire career which is #1.

[LAZERUSS]

Russ, MJ, and West have a negative rating.

Russell's regular season FG% vs Wilt in their playoff series H2H's...

59-60
Regular season: .467
Playoffs against Wilt .446

61-62:
Regular season: .457
Playoffs against Wilt: .399

63-64:
Regular season: .433
Playoffs against Wilt: .386

64-65:
Regular season: .438
Playoffs against Wilt: .447

65-66:
Regular season: .415
Playoffs against Wilt: .451

66-67:
Regular season: .454
Playoffs against Wilt: .358

67-68:
Regular season: .425
Playoffs against Wilt: .440

68-69:
Regular season: .433
Playoffs against Wilt: .397


And how about Chamberlain:

59-60:
Regular season: .461
Playoffs against Russell: .500

61-62:
Regular season: .506
Playoffs against Russell: .468

63-64:
Regular season: .524
Playoffs against Russell: .517

64-65:
Regular season: .510
Playoffs against Russell: .555

65-66:
Regular season: .540
Playoffs against Russell: .509

66-67:
Regular season: .683
Playoffs against Russell: .556

67-68:
Regular season: .595
Playoffs against Russell: .487

68-69:
Regular season: .583
Playoffs against Russell: .500

[Fudge]

Livinglegend finna have a meltdown. :oldlol:

Stop bro, im tryna save you.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Who has the lowest?
Gotta be Russell.
Russell by far.

[livinglegend]

Russell by far.

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :banana: :banana:

[LAZERUSS]

1960-1966 Wilt "scoring prime"

2 + (39.6-32.8) + (39.6-29.2) + (24.8-26.4) + (24.8-27.6) + (3.4-3.2) + (3.4-2.4) + (51.1-50.5) + (51.1-52.7) + (54.8-52.3) + (54.8-41.5) - 0 = 30.8

Only Karl Malone has a higher rating, that's only if were removing Wilt's entire career which is #1.

"Scoring prime" 39.6 ppg
Playoffs: 32.8
30 of those 52 games against Russell (FIVE playoff series) , and in which he averaged 34 ppg against Russell in their regular season H2H's in the same span.

Go ahead and look up MJ's scoring and FG%'s against the Pistons in their four playoff series H2H's from '88 to '91 (and the Pistons were a shell by '91); or Shaq's in his FIVE series H2H's against the Spurs from '99 thru '04. Or Kareem's in his FIVE playoff series H2H's against Thurmond and Wilt from '71 thru '73. ALL with considerable declines in scoring and FG%'s from their regular season numbers in those same spans.

[sd3035]

Bran James easily, at least Bran fanboys can say he's the best at something

[LAZERUSS]

It doesn't have to, it takes into account regression and underperforming for a certain players standard on the biggest stage, which choking is all about. And Chamberlain blows every "all-time great" out in this.

So a "scoring" and "peak" Wilt, from '59-60 thru 66-67, in which he played in 67 playoff games, and averaged 30.4 ppg, 27.0 rpg, 4.5 apg, and shot .515 from the field (in post-seasons that shot .421 on average in the same span)...would be a "choker" by your definition. Not to mention that Wilt was not only heavily outscoring and rebounding his opposing centers in those series, but DRAMATICALLY reducing their FG%'s as well?

But maybe you can give me the list of your other "GOAT" candidates who put ONE SERIES of a 30-27-5 .515 AVERAGE (and probably 8+ bpg), much less over the course of 67 straight games.

Good to know...

[Deuce Bigalow]

1967-1973 Wilt

3 + (19.8-17.6) + (19.8-16.9) + (20.8-23.5) + (20.8-24.1) + (5.6-4.7) + (5.6-4.1) + (61.7-54.0) + (61.7-57.4) + (44.9-42.7) + (44.9-36.7) - 2 = 24.9

No matter how you look at it. Scoring prime, past his scoring prime, or career, Wilt is a known choker.

[LAZERUSS]

1967-1973 Wilt

3 + (19.8-17.6) + (19.8-16.9) + (20.8-23.5) + (20.8-24.1) + (5.6-4.7) + (5.6-4.1) + (61.7-54.0) + (61.7-57.4) + (44.9-42.7) + (44.9-36.7) - 2 = 24.9

No matter how you look at it. Scoring prime, past his scoring prime, or career, Wilt is a known choker.

In those seven seasons...two titles, two teams that went 69-13 and 68-13, and two more that went 62-20 and 60-22, and overall, FIVE Finals. One FMVP and most assuredly another unanimous one in '67 had the award existed. Badly outplayed his opposing centers overall in those post-seasons. Was more of a "winner" than Kareem in that span (a 3-1 edge in Finals in their four seasons together), and lost to the eventual champions in every season in which his team did not win the title in those years (three of them in game seven's, and two of those decided by 4 and 2 points.)

Again, your definition of a "choker" is FAR different than mine...

[Deuce Bigalow]

Two titles, two teams that went 69-13 and 68-13, and two more that went 62-20 and 60-22. One FMVP and most assuredly another unanimous one in '67 had the award existed. Badly outplayed his opposing centers overall in those post-seasons. Was more of a "winner" than Kareem in that span (a 3-1 edge in Finals in their four seasons together), and lost to the eventual champions in every season in which his team did not win the title in those years (three of them in game seven's, and two of those decided by 4 and 2 points.)

Again, your definition of a "choker" is FAR different than mine...
2-4 in the NBA Finals with his career PPG decreasing from 30.1 to 18.6 and his career FT% decreasing from 51.1 to 37.5 in those Finals. Also, every single year that Wilt made the playoffs, his PPG dropped, every single year, not one postseason where his PPG was raised.

Anyways, boiled down: #1 in choker rating

[Bandito]

How is that different? Kobe chucked his team out of a championship. Getting locked up by tayshaun prince or playing passive it doesnt make a difference. And last years fmvp was well deserved. He sucked in game three and was mediocre games 1 and 2 but he more than made up for it in games 4 6 and 7.
He deserved it but that was because everybody else was playing injured.


And there is a big difference about going down fighting than just taking the opponent sword and thrusting it in yourself.

[Bandito]

sorry i wont fall for it and make you sad life a little happier. :oldlol:
Nice try.
All that and nothing of value was said.:facepalm

[Black and White]

Since I have been watching the NBA, LeBron James has had the biggest choke I have seen,


HMs: Harden, Manu.

[JT123]

Since I have been watching the NBA, LeBron James has had the biggest choke I have seen,


HMs: Harden, Manu.
So you weren't watching the NBA when Kobe choked in 2004, 2008, 2011, and 2012? :biggums: 2011 has to be the worst choke of all for Kobe, getting swept by JJ Barea and Jason Terry will never be forgotten! :roll: :roll:

[The-Legend-24]

Bunch of nikkas catching feelings in here. :oldlol:

[Euroleague]

Oh, OP changed the title of the thread..........initially the thread was titled "Greatest choker of all-time", which was why I voted for Peyton.

Now they changed it to specify just for NBA.........

I can only say for the players I have watched. Of those players it has to be LeChoke James. I mean come on. No one else is even close.

He would also be the greatest choker ever in the FIBA game.

[red1]

Oh, OP changed the title of the thread..........initially the thread was titled "Greatest choker of all-time", which was I voted for Peyton.

Now they changed it to specify just for NBA.........

I can only say for the players I have watched. of those players it has to be LeChoke James. I mean come on. No one else is even close.

He would also be the greatest choker ever in the FIBA game.
http://www.crossed-flag-pins.com/Friendship-Pins/Nigeria/Flag-Pins-Nigeria-Finland.jpg

[Demitri98]

Wilt and it's not close.

[red1]

http://www.nigerianbestforum.com/generaltopics/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Nigerian-Players-celebrating-after-defeating-Greece-80-79-during-their-pre-Olympic-basketball-game.jpg
http://www.euroleague.net/rs/47517/7dd1e5a9-6d1e-44ba-805c-0858188b732f/0ea/filename/petteri-koponen-finland-photo-fiba-europe-castoria-matthaios.jpg

[JimmyMcAdocious]

Either Jamal Magloire or Wilt.

[Black and White]

So you weren't watching the NBA when Kobe choked in 2004, 2008, 2011, and 2012? :biggums: 2011 has to be the worst choke of all for Kobe, getting swept by JJ Barea and Jason Terry will never be forgotten! :roll: :roll:

Stop getting so butthurt, LeBron had 2 all-stars and still choked the series away, he was literally hiding from the ball, shit happens, even to your "LeGod" get over it.

[dannywpt]

Let's crown Bran the king of choking and wrap this up, shall we?

[Euroleague]

http://www.crossed-flag-pins.com/Friendship-Pins/Nigeria/Flag-Pins-Nigeria-Finland.jpg

LeChoke is the greatest choker of all time in FIBA history by leaps and bounds.

Hell, the US would not have even beaten Spain in 2008, if Kobe didn't bail them out at the end of the game.

And even in 2012, LeChoke was freaking choking again in the 4th quarter against Spain, until Durant bailed out as his ass.

And prior to that it was LeBronze in 2004 and 2006, and his EPIC choke job in 2006.

He was completing two more EPIC choke jobs in 2008 and 2012, but got bailed out by Kobe and Durant late in the 4th quarter. I've never seen a choker in the sport of basketball like LeChoke. The only thing that tops his level of choking in the world of sports is Peyton.

The saddest thing about all of LeChoke's choke jobs in NBA and FIBA is that none of it was even bad luck or ref related. It was all just him choking like crazy.

If Ray Allen didn't hit that shot.........................

[DaSeba5]

This speaks volumes about the stupidity of ISH, or maybe basketball fans in general because I'm sure people would say this every where else as well.

[red1]

LeChoke is the greatest choker of all time in FIBA history by leaps and bounds.

Hell, the US would not have even beaten Spain in 2008, if Kobe didn't bail them out at the end of the game.

And even in 2012, LeChoke was freaking choking again in the 4th quarter against Spain, until Durant bailed out as his ass.

And prior to that it was LeBronze in 2004 and 2006, and his EPIC choke job in 2006.

He was completing two more EPIC choke jobs in 2008 and 2012, but got bailed out by Kobe and Durant late in the 4th quarter. I've never seen a choker in the sport of basketball like LeChoke. The only thing that tops his level of choking in the world of sports is Peyton.

The saddest thing about all of LeChoke's choke jobs in NBA and FIBA is that none of it was even bad luck or ref related. It was all just him choking like crazy.

If Ray Allen didn't hit that shot.........................

I got you

http://youmad.neocities.org/youmad.jpeg

[red1]

http://i.imgur.com/66elvaO.jpg

[Euroleague]

http://www.nigerianbestforum.com/generaltopics/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Nigerian-Players-celebrating-after-defeating-Greece-80-79-during-their-pre-Olympic-basketball-game.jpg
http://www.euroleague.net/rs/47517/7dd1e5a9-6d1e-44ba-805c-0858188b732f/0ea/filename/petteri-koponen-finland-photo-fiba-europe-castoria-matthaios.jpg

WTF are you serious?

Are you actually arguing that Greece are bigger chokers than LeBron in FIBA?

PUT DOWN THE CRACK PIPE

Lost 4 or 5 games in 2004 and got the bronze medal

epic choke job in the semifinal against Argentina in 2004

EPIC CHOKE against Greece in 2006 - considered the biggest choke in the HISTORY of international basketball

Another bronze

Then in 2008 another EPIC choke in gold medal game against Spain in the 4th quarter, and LeBronze was reeling and dazed and confused and Kobe had to bail him out with a 4 point play. Otherwise USA would have lost the game. Without Kobe, LeChoke was going to LOSE AGAIN.

2012 - Again LeChoke was "leading" USA to a loss against Spain. They were getting their asses handed to them by Navarro and Gasol brothers and losing the game late.

Finally Coach K said enough of this shit, took the ball out of LeChoke's hands, gave it to Durant, who led USA in 2010, and he bailed them out late in the game. Right before Coach K did that, LeChoke had that dazed and confused look on his face and he was totally done. Without Durant to bail his ass out, USA would have lost that game for sure.

This is the supposed "best team in the world" that is supposed to be "vastly superior" and he can't even ****ing lead it to a gold medal. He's 0 for 4. 0 for freaking 4 with freaking Team USA in trying to be the leader in taking that team to a gold medal, and THREE times he had the TOP team and players.

You are out of your GOD DAMN MIND.

He's the biggest choker in the history of FIBA basketball by a country mile and then some.

[red1]

WTF are you serious?

Are you actually arguing that Greece are bigger chokers than LeBron in FIBA?

PUT DOWN THE CRACK PIPE

Lost 4 or 5 games in 2004 and got the bronze medal

epic choke job in the semifinal against Argentina in 2004

EPIC CHOKE against Greece in 2006 - considered the biggest choke in the HISTORY of international basketball

Another bronze

Then in 2008 another EPIC choke in gold medal game against Spain in the 4th quarter, and LeBronze was reeling and dazed and confused and Kobe had to bail him out with a 4 point play. Otherwise USA would have lost the game. Without Kobe, LeChoke was going to LOSE AGAIN.

2012 - Again LeChoke was "leading" USA to a loss against Spain. They were getting their asses handed to them by Navarro and Gasol brothers and losing the game late.

Finally Coach K said enough of this shit, took the ball out of LeChoke's hands, gave it to Durant, who led USA in 2010, and he bailed them out late in the game. Right before Coach K did that, LeChoke had that dazed and confused look on his face and he was totally done. Without Durant to bail his ass out, USA would have lost that game for sure.

You are out of your GOD DAMN MIND.
http://i.imgur.com/616eHdq.jpg

[aboss4real24]

lebron isnt a great clutch player

dont know y ppl cant understand it

[JT123]

Stop getting so butthurt, LeBron had 2 all-stars and still choked the series away, he was literally hiding from the ball, shit happens, even to your "LeGod" get over it.
Kobe had 3 future Hall of Famers last season and barely made the playoffs. Tell me, which one is worse? :coleman:

[JT123]

lebron isnt a great clutch player

dont know y ppl cant understand it
More game winners than Melo this year. :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Deuce Bigalow]

Let's crown Bran the king of choking and wrap this up, shall we?
Well 50 votes makes it official and we have 55 votes. Let ISH get their last votes in.

[Black and White]

Kobe had 3 future Hall of Famers last season and barely made the playoffs. Tell me, which one is worse? :coleman:

If you are bringing this up as a method of comparision then you clearly do not understand context,

If you want to talk like that then LeBrons team this year is the GOAT team right??

[JT123]

If you are bringing this up as a method of comparision then you clearly do not understand context,

If you want to talk like that then LeBrons team this year is the GOAT team right??
Obviously they had a lot of injuries, but barely making the playoffs is still an epic failure. Dwight still played 76 games. A team that only has Kobe and Howard should have still been a top 4 seed. :confusedshrug:

[Black and White]

Obviously they had a lot of injuries, but barely making the playoffs is still an epic failure. Dwight still played 76 games. A team that only has Kobe and Howard should have still been a top 4 seed. :confusedshrug:

Sure, in a tough Western conference 2 players could carry a team to a top 4 spot right?

Dwight was a mental midget and created all sorts of issues in the locker room because he did not want to be in LA, you are reaching, Bran choked, hes been voted as the biggest choker, get over it, its not the end of the world

[red1]

the number of fictional retellings of past events on this forum is astounding

[JT123]

Sure, in a tough Western conference 2 players could carry a team to a top 4 spot right?

Dwight was a mental midget and created all sorts of issues in the locker room because he did not want to be in LA, you are reaching, Bran choked, hes been voted as the biggest choker, get over it, its not the end of the world
KD and Westbrook say Hi. :lol
The only one causing issues in the locker room was Kobe with his ball hogging and no defense playing self. Nash, Howard, and Gasol all sacrificed their individual games for the benefit of the team. Kobe made no attempt whatsoever to sacrifice his game to make his teammates happier. :coleman:

[Deuce Bigalow]

ISH has spoken and the results are in. There have been many that have come and gone, but there can only be one greatest choker. With over 50 votes, ISH's official greatest choker of all-time is Lebron James.

[Keno]

i take this thread with a grain of salt, ripthekik and his alt's voted at least fifteen times. also surprised that melo has zero votes, first round loser.

[Deuce Bigalow]

i take this thread with a grain of salt, ripthekik and his alt's voted at least fifteen times. also surprised that melo has zero votes, first round loser.
The people have spoken.

[Keno]

ripthekik has spoken.

fixed. but that just shows the low iq of insidehoops. the greatest player in elimination games/game sevens is considered to be the biggest choker in nba history? game six at boston alone is more clutch than anything (for example) kobe has done in his career.

[Deuce Bigalow]

fixed. but that just shows the low iq of insidehoops. the greatest player in elimination games/game sevens is considered to be the biggest choker in nba history? game six at boston alone is more clutch than anything (for example) kobe has done in his career.
Yes, this is what ISH has decided.

[Rodmantheman]

ISH has spoken and the results are in. There have been many that have come and gone, but there can only be one greatest choker. With over 50 votes, ISH's official greatest choker of all-time is Lebron James.

most of the votes were alts any to bad the majority of the sports world don't agree with this.

[TheMilkyBarKid]

ISH has spoken and the results are in. There have been many that have come and gone, but there can only be one greatest choker. With over 50 votes, ISH's official greatest choker of all-time is Lebron James.
Haha so much effort from you and nobody takes it seriously. Lebron is clutcher than kobe, the stats and high pressure games performances certainly indicate so. Suck it bitch.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Haha so much effort from you and nobody takes it seriously. Lebron is clutcher than kobe, the stats and high pressure games performances certainly indicate so. Suck it bitch.
You made sonny?

[Euroleague]

fixed. but that just shows the low iq of insidehoops. the greatest player in elimination games/game sevens is considered to be the biggest choker in nba history? game six at boston alone is more clutch than anything (for example) kobe has done in his career.

If Ray Allen did not hit that miracle of all miracle shots last year, LeChoke would have never lived it down. The only reason ESPN isn't calling him a choker right now is because Allen made that shot.

LeChoke was right back to his old choking ways. He was totally shaken in that game 6. The same old LeChoke, then Allen bailed him out with that miracle shot.

LeChoke is a natural born choker. It's in his DNA.

[zoom17]

You made sonny?

Why would he be mad this was nothing more than a typical bash Lebron thread and most of the voters/alts hate Lebron.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Why would he be mad this was nothing more than a typical bash Lebron thread and most of the voters/alts hate Lebron.
His jimmies seemed rustled tbh

[Angel Face]

So it's official... Lebron James is the GOAT choker. :applause:

Therefore, ISH should censor the word clutch if it's being linked to Lebron like when some of his fans say "Lebron is clutch" it should come out like this "Lebron is ******".

[zoom17]

So it's official... Lebron James is the GOAT choker. :applause:

Therefore, ISH should censor the word clutch if it's being linked to Lebron like when some of his fans say "Lebron is clutch" it should come out like this "Lebron is ******".

that was so cringe worthy to read.

[Angel Face]

that was so cringe worthy to read.

I think you're just mad Lebron isn't ******.

[zoom17]

I think you're just mad Lebron isn't ******.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2504jiKnhl8

[Keno]

If Ray Allen did not hit that miracle of all miracle shots last year, LeChoke would have never lived it down. The only reason ESPN isn't calling him a choker right now is because Allen made that shot.

LeChoke was right back to his old choking ways. He was totally shaken in that game 6. The same old LeChoke, then Allen bailed him out with that miracle shot.

LeChoke is a natural born choker. It's in his DNA.

you mean the same game six where he dropped thirteen points in the fourth quarter to bring the heat back? superb choking job by james.

[Bandito]

Angel Face spitting the truth:applause:

[zoom17]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAxgXxWfBE0

[Angel Face]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2504jiKnhl8

http://i42.tinypic.com/2icbfnm.jpg

http://mavsmag.com/redirk/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/photo-1-500x373.jpg

http://ww2.hdnux.com/photos/22/25/23/4805861/12/960x540.jpg

[zoom17]

http://i42.tinypic.com/2icbfnm.jpg

http://mavsmag.com/redirk/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/photo-1-500x373.jpg

http://ww2.hdnux.com/photos/22/25/23/4805861/12/960x540.jpg

get with the times you lebron haters live in the past Lebron is going for his third ring you guys keep living in the past though:D

http://swishnba.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/bwtxfczcmae-dec-large.png

[Deuce Bigalow]

Lebron is ******

Damn Jeff that was quick

[Angel Face]

Lebron is ******

Damn Jeff that was quick

:applause:

Good job Jeff.

[zoom17]

Lebron is clutch

Damn Jeff that was quick

seems to work just fine:confusedshrug:

[TheMilkyBarKid]

His jimmies seemed rustled tbh
Not at all, I don't let people on the internet piss me off.
The blinding ignorance of some people perplexes me at times, but I figure a lot of the people behind these accounts are having a laugh by projecting an exaggerated opinion.
We are what we repeatedly do. Lebron repeatedly has better clutch statistics than Kobe, playoffs and regular season. He also repeatedly is a significantly better performer in elimination games and game 7's, which is really where a clutch performer should perform best.
Why can't Kobe do that??
You can think about an actual response or you can say 'you mad son', at the end of the day I'm not the one getting mad.
:D

[Black and White]

Not at all, I don't let people on the internet piss me off.
The blinding ignorance of some people perplexes me at times, but I figure a lot of the people behind these accounts are having a laugh by projecting an exaggerated opinion.
We are what we repeatedly do. Lebron repeatedly has better clutch statistics than Kobe, playoffs and regular season. He also repeatedly is a significantly better performer in elimination games and game 7's, which is really where a clutch performer should perform best.
Why can't Kobe do that??
You can think about an actual response or you can say 'you mad son', at the end of the day I'm not the one getting mad.
:D

Hi Jameer

[TheMilkyBarKid]

His jimmies seemed rustled tbh
Not at all, I don't let people on the internet piss me off.
The blinding ignorance of some people perplexes me at times, but I figure a lot of the people behind these accounts are having a laugh by projecting an exaggerated opinion.
We are what we repeatedly do. Lebron repeatedly has better clutch statistics than Kobe, playoffs and regular season. He also repeatedly is a significantly better performer in elimination games and game 7's, which is really where a clutch performer should perform best.
Why can't Kobe do that??
You can think about an actual response or you can say 'you mad son', at the end of the day I'm not the one getting mad.
:D

[TheMilkyBarKid]

Hi Jameer
We had this convo like a month or so ago, I give mods to check my ip address and see if it matches with him or anyone else on here.
Aus>NZ

[Black and White]

We had this convo like a month or so ago, I give mods to check my ip address and see if it matches with him or anyone else on here.
Aus>NZ

The country debate I see....... Nothing else to say I guess???

[TheMilkyBarKid]

The country debate I see....... Nothing else to say I guess???
I addressed how I'm not Jameer, you accused me of this a while back and had nothing to base it on other than me siding with him on something against you. Mods/Jeff are welcome to look into me and should they find I have the same IP address as Jameer/any other active user they can ban me.
That was meant to be light-hearted, but still it's true. Outside of Queenstown NZ is fairly boring.

[Black and White]

I addressed how I'm not Jameer, you accused me of this a while back and had nothing to base it on other than me siding with him on something against you. Mods/Jeff are welcome to look into me and should they find I have the same IP address as Jameer/any other active user they can ban me.
That was meant to be light-hearted, but still it's true. Outside of Queenstown NZ is fairly boring.

You are titled to your opinion on NZ, but its different if you live there, home is always home and there are things here that you cannot appreciate if you don't live here, get what I am saying? I would never say Aus is boring because I have only been there for holidays etc.

[TheMilkyBarKid]

You are titled to your opinion on NZ, but its different if you live there, home is always home and there are things here that you cannot appreciate if you don't live here, get what I am saying? I would never say Aus is boring because I have only been there for holidays etc.
Alright, I getcha but we're a bit sidetracked.
I'm not Jameer, I don't have the time to be trust me.

[BallsOut]

Results:

Lebron - 30
Wilt - 13
Kobe - 6
Sprewell - 2
Nash - 2
Malone - 2
Harden - 1
Mcgrady - 1

:biggums:

[stalkerforlife]

Bron is my vote.