Tony Parker is the best Point Guard of his generation

[RagaZ]

"They can talk about Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, Deron Williams and Chris Paul. I still have the most rings." -Tony Parker

:applause:

I think he would get more praise if he was American.

[HOoopCityJones]

"They can talk about Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, Deron Williams and Chris Paul. I still have the most rings." -Tony Parker

:applause:

I think he would get more praise if he was American.

Don't let any Duncan stans know, they think he was no better than DFish.

[imdaman99]

I think he would get more praise if he didn't have stacked teams to play with.

Ask me what he did in last year's Finals?

[LeGOAT]

Swap any of those players with Parker and you think the Spurs won't win titles?

[tpols]

I think he would get more praise if he didn't have stacked teams to play with.

Ask me what he did in last year's Finals?

pretty much closed the series out before Ray's shot.

[imdaman99]

pretty much closed the series out before Ray's shot.
He was also the guy that Ray lit up on his game tying shot.

[tpols]

He was also the guy that Ray lit up on his game tying shot.

hard to say anyone was lit up when everyone was scrambling for the loose ball.

[moe94]

Let's be real, the list of point guards winning with Duncan/Pop goes 20 deep, at least.

[oarabbus]

hard to say anyone was lit up when everyone was scrambling for the loose ball.

yeah this... Ray didn't light anyone up. Just made a clutch shot.

[HOoopCityJones]

Let's be real, the list of point guards winning with Duncan/Pop goes 20 deep, at least.

We gonna act like the same isn't true for PF's?

[T_L_P]

We gonna act like the same isn't true for PF's?

What, you think there are 20 PFs that would have won four titles with Duncan's supporting cast?

:roll:

You think Parker has played like this his entire career. In fact, didn't you say the '03 Spurs were at the height of their stackdness because they had Robinson, Parker and Manu all on the same team? :oldlol:

[moe94]

We gonna act like the same isn't true for PF's?
:biggums:

[tpols]

What, you think there are 20 PFs that would have won four titles with Duncan's supporting cast?

:roll:

You think Parker has played like this his entire career. In fact, didn't you say the '03 Spurs were at the height of their stackdness because they had Robinson, Parker and Manu all on the same team? :oldlol:
Theres very few that have been in the league that could sustain what Parker has.. CP3 wasnt even in the league for 3 out of 4 spurs championships.. and the only year he was in the league was 07, where Parker won a FMVP over prime Duncan.

Kidd was too old by 07 to keep it going.. Parkers still an MVP candidate in 2012 and 2013.

There are not 20 PGs who couldve replicated what Parker has done 03 through 13. If were talking primes maybe 3 or 4 from the 2000s

[HOoopCityJones]

:biggums:

Whats with the face? If Parker's skill is all Pop like you're suggesting , then idk why it's so outlandish to suggest the same of Duncan.

[navy]

Parker has been great for about 4 years now.But the best? Laughable.

[Black Mamba's B]

Parker has been in the running for mvp the last couple seasons. He has developed over the years, he's a hof no doubt

[T_L_P]

Theres very few that have been in the league that could sustain what Parker has.. CP3 wasnt even in the league for 3 out of 4 spurs championships.. and the only year he was in the league was 07, where Parker won a FMVP over prime Duncan.

Kidd was too old by 07 to keep it going.. Parkers still an MVP candidate in 2012 and 2013.

There are not 20 PGs who couldve replicated what Parker has done 03 through 13. If were talking primes maybe 3 or 4 from the 2000s

Firstly, I never once stated that there were 20 PGs who could replace Parker. All-time perhaps there are, but definitely not from the 2000s. And don't insinuate that Parker was actually better than Duncan in '07 -- the Regular Season, the Playoffs or the Finals. Duncan and Manu were much better up until the Finals, so they received the most attention from the Cavs' defense. Parker simply abused the biggest mismatch in Finals history.

But there are years where another Point Guard probably would have won it all with Duncan. Parker has been one of the most inconsistent "star" players in league history. In the '04 WCSF (against the Lakers) he sucked. In the '05 Finals he sucked. In the '06 WCSF (against the Mavs) he sucked. There have been times where Parker was a detriment to the Spurs as a whole because of his inability to see what he was doing wrong. His only time as a true star was when Duncan was on the decline :confusedshrug:

From '09 through to '13 Parker was a damn incredible player. But people like H0oopCityJones think he's played this well his entire career, just because his name is Tony Parker.

[T_L_P]

Whats with the face? If Parker's skill is all Pop like you're suggesting , then idk why it's so outlandish to suggest the same of Duncan.

-Pop's record before Duncan
-Pop's success since Duncan's decline

[Pointguard]

"They can talk about Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, Deron Williams and Chris Paul. I still have the most rings." -Tony Parker

:applause:

I think he would get more praise if he was American.

Classic example of the overuse of the ring argument.

[DMAVS41]

Parker in 13 finals

16/2/6 on 47% TS

And hardly anyone even mentioned it. That is how you know a player isn't considered a legit MVP of the league or a true "star"...

[LeGOAT]

Parker in 13 finals

16/2/6 on 47% TS

And hardly anyone even mentioned it. That is how you know a player isn't considered a legit MVP of the league or a true "star"...
/thread.

[tpols]

Parker in 13 finals

16/2/6 on 47% TS

And hardly anyone even mentioned it. That is how you know a player isn't considered a legit MVP of the league or a true "star"...

Hes not an MVP.. still a candidate. Finished 5th and 6th the past two years.


And itd be cool to see his stats before OT in game 6 as well as clutch data.. he hit the go ahead and tying shots in both games 1 and 6.. two of the closest most pivotal games.. while most the others were blowouts

[r0drig0lac]

do not know if the best of all generation, but for sure if I want to win'm picking him before overrated chris paul

[Brizzly]

Don't let any Duncan stans know, they think he was no better than DFish.

He wasn't anything special first year he won.

[TheMilkyBarKid]

Parker in 13 finals

16/2/6 on 47% TS

And hardly anyone even mentioned it. That is how you know a player isn't considered a legit MVP of the league or a true "star"...
If a real star had these stats they would be crucified

[9512]

Parker won fmvp in 2007 just as someone said due to Duncan and manu getting so much attention and that 2007 title by the spurs is probably the most underwhelming title there has ever been. Beating a much weaker cavs team.

[DMAVS41]

Hes not an MVP.. still a candidate. Finished 5th and 6th the past two years.


And itd be cool to see his stats before OT in game 6 as well as clutch data.. he hit the go ahead and tying shots in both games 1 and 6.. two of the closest most pivotal games.. while most the others were blowouts

So what?

A legit star plays like that and there would be huge backlash.

Imagine Chris Paul having a finals like that...LOL

Parker is great...really damn good, but there is a reason why nobody really cared.

[Black Mamba's B]

So what?

A legit star plays like that and there would be huge backlash.

Imagine Chris Paul having a finals like that...LOL

Parker is great...really damn good, but there is a reason why nobody really cared.
Wasn't Parker playing injured?

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

He was never even top 3

[Heavincent]

So what?

A legit star plays like that and there would be huge backlash.

Imagine Chris Paul having a finals like that...LOL

Parker is great...really damn good, but there is a reason why nobody really cared.

A Chris Paul led team lost by nearly 60 in a home playoff game and nobody really cared. Also averaged 13 points on 37% shooting against the Spurs a few years ago, and again, nobody said anything.

[ninephive]

Parker in 13 finals

16/2/6 on 47% TS

And hardly anyone even mentioned it. That is how you know a player isn't considered a legit MVP of the league or a true "star"...
While injured and being the focus of the defense, which is why they put Lebron on him. And yet he still had huge clutch moments (G1 & G6)

[ninephive]

So what?

A legit star plays like that and there would be huge backlash.

Imagine Chris Paul having a finals like that...LOL

Parker is great...really damn good, but there is a reason why nobody really cared.
Chris Paul got ousted by a Grizzlies team that Parker DESTROYED LAST YEAR on much better stats. Same exact opponent, LAST YEAR:

Paul 22.8 / 6.3 / 1.8 in 4-2 loss
Parker 24.5 / 9.5 / 2.0 in 4-0 sweep

Get out of here thinking Chris Paul would outperform Parker if he could ever make a WCF or much less Finals series. Please.

[Pointguard]

Parker in 13 finals

16/2/6 on 47% TS

And hardly anyone even mentioned it. That is how you know a player isn't considered a legit MVP of the league or a true "star"...

Confused as to what that 13 number is? Finals Games? He played more than that right?

Playoffs? He averaged more than that?

[tpols]

While injured and being the focus of the defense, which is why they put Lebron on him. And yet he still had huge clutch moments (G1 & G6)
He got the rose treatment for sure.. While Duncan couldn't score in second halves and manu was dribbling the ball off his foot.. He was the only one who could create for the Spurs in crunchtime

[IncarceratedBob]

Confused as to what that 13 number is? Finals Games? He played more than that right?

Playoffs? He averaged more than that?
the year. 2013 finals.

[ninephive]

He got the rose treatment for sure.. While Duncan couldn't score in second halves and manu was dribbling the ball off his foot.. He was the only one who could create for the Spurs in crunchtime
True, Duncan played solid, as did Kawhi, but Parker kept the engine running as usual and was the go-to in big moments. Ginobili was terrible overall, but even in his "redeeming" Game 5, Parker still outscored him. What was killer was that his injury really hampered him in G6, and it took everything he had to pull out those clutch moments at the end. You knew once they gave it away, Game 7 was going to be tough because the injury got worse in G6. But health issues are the story of the Spurs over the years. Hopefully we can keep everyone at least as healthy as last year. Do that, and SAS has another shot at it.

[Pointguard]

the year. 2013 finals.
Thanks. But everybody has an off series, except maybe Jordan.

Lebron, and Miami's speed/quickness, seems to throw point guards off their game. I don't know if he can do it anymore though.

[T_L_P]

True, Duncan played solid, as did Kawhi, but Parker kept the engine running as usual and was the go-to in big moments. Ginobili was terrible overall, but even in his "redeeming" Game 5, Parker still outscored him. What was killer was that his injury really hampered him in G6, and it took everything he had to pull out those clutch moments at the end. You knew once they gave it away, Game 7 was going to be tough because the injury got worse in G6. But health issues are the story of the Spurs over the years. Hopefully we can keep everyone at least as healthy as last year. Do that, and SAS has another shot at it.

Duncan was the best and most consistent Spur in last year's Finals.

Defensively Parker was nowhere to be seen (as per), whereas Duncan was still the anchor. Then there's the fact that Duncan was playing with much more efficiency (he even was better at the line than TP).

I hate when people try to boil everything down to late game situations. Without Duncan's consistency the Spurs would not have been in a position to take the lead in late game situations. Last year should have been the time for Timmy to play the '03 David Robinson role.

[RichieW]

I think he would get more praise if he didn't have stacked teams to play with.

Ask me what he did in last year's Finals?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAuQL70pxAg

[Just2McFly]

"They can talk about Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, Deron Williams and Chris Paul. I still have the most rings." -Tony Parker

:applause:

I think he would get more praise if he was American.

if you dont get the f*ck outta my face with this bullshit. parker cant even touch this shit

[Just2McFly]

A Chris Paul led team lost by nearly 60 in a home playoff game and nobody really cared. Also averaged 13 points on 37% shooting against the Spurs a few years ago, and again, nobody said anything.
:biggums: :biggums:

why are you lying?

[secund2nun]

No way. Any player looks amazing playing in Pop's system. Imagine how good CP3 would look on the Spurs playing under Pop and with Duncan.

[ninephive]

if you dont get the f*ck outta my face with this bullshit. parker cant even touch this shit
Oh really? I seem to remember lots of playoff series where TP sent all those guys packing.

[Just2McFly]

Oh really? I seem to remember lots of playoff series where TP sent all those guys packing.
I remember all those players having all time great peaks unlike TP.

[ninephive]

Duncan was the best and most consistent Spur in last year's Finals.

Defensively Parker was nowhere to be seen (as per), whereas Duncan was still the anchor. Then there's the fact that Duncan was playing with much more efficiency (he even was better at the line than TP).

I hate when people try to boil everything down to late game situations. Without Duncan's consistency the Spurs would not have been in a position to take the lead in late game situations. Last year should have been the time for Timmy to play the '03 David Robinson role.
Nowhere to be seen? What are you talking about? He made Chalmers and Cole the worst 2 shooters on the Heat for the whole series. What do you want him to do, guard everyone on the court?

[tpols]

Duncan was the best and most consistent Spur in last year's Finals.

Defensively Parker was nowhere to be seen (as per), whereas Duncan was still the anchor. Then there's the fact that Duncan was playing with much more efficiency (he even was better at the line than TP).

I hate when people try to boil everything down to late game situations. Without Duncan's consistency the Spurs would not have been in a position to take the lead in late game situations. Last year should have been the time for Timmy to play the '03 David Robinson role.

Duncan was the Spurs best player.. but that's like saying Ben Wallace was Detroit best player.. When chauncey was very close..rasheed was close.. rip was the best shooter/off ball player. Larry brown was the best orchestrator. It was a team effort. It wasn't Duncan in 03.. it was much more of a team thing.

Duncan was the defensive anchor.. Parker was primary offensive creator against the top perimeter defense in the league. It is what it is.

[ninephive]

I remember all those players having all time great peaks unlike TP.
You don't remember Tony's Finals MVP? What about those guys great peaks? I guess when all 3 of their rings combined still come in at 2 less than TPs (still counting BTW), then you've got to move to "statistical peaks" on mediocre teams. They were good at that though.

[Just2McFly]

You don't remember Tony's Finals MVP? What about those guys great peaks? I guess when all 3 of their rings combined still come in at 3 less than TPs (still counting BTW), then you've got to move to "statistical peaks" on mediocre teams. They were good at that though.


I just remember them being miles ahead of TP as a player and let us not bring up steve nash and the suns getting f*cked over in 07

[niko]

"They can talk about Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, Deron Williams and Chris Paul. I still have the most rings because none of them played with Tim Duncan." -Tony Parker
.

Fixed. Because it that's not what he meant then he's an asshole and needed my help anyway. We all know what Tony Parker can do. But his rings are because he was on a team with Duncan, not the other way around. And don't mention the MVP, he scored the most because Duncan was collapsed on and Duncan is a post guy. I think that's a "idiot test" type question, who is the Spurs MVP of that year? If you say Parker, you're an idiot.

[tpols]

I just remember them being miles ahead of TP as a player and let us not bring up steve nash and the suns getting f*cked over in 07
Look at their MVP finishes.. it's not miles lol. Chris Pauls the better talent. Parkers more focused, skilled, and mentally strong. Maybe pop made him that way so be it. Parker was better in the past few years playoffs. They aren't that far apart

[ninephive]

Nowhere to be seen? What are you talking about? He made Chalmers and Cole the worst 2 shooters on the Heat for the whole series. What do you want him to do, guard everyone on the court?
Meanwhile, Chris Anderson is shooting 0.727... I'm not saying Duncan didn't play great D, I'm just saying let's not forget that TP held his guys to AWFUL numbers. So you can say, "it was the system" or whatever, but I'm just not sure what else you want TP to do on defense? Block 5 shots a game? Grab 10 boards? What? He's a PG.

[Just2McFly]

Look at their MVP finishes.. it's not miles lol. Chris Pauls the better talent. Parkers more focused, skilled, and mentally strong. Maybe pop made him that way so be it. Parker was better in the past few years playoffs. They aren't that far apart
bruh, you can't mention Nash/Kidd/Paul in the same breath as Parker. It's blasphemy to me. I'm not saying Parker isnt great, but he's nowhere near the same level. Those guys simply impacted the game more. On a whole other level.

[tpols]

bruh, you can't mention Nash/Kidd/Paul in the same breath as Parker. It's blasphemy to me. I'm not saying Parker isnt great, but he's nowhere near the same level. Those guys simply impacted the game more. On a whole other level.
I actually agree on nash and kidd.. I could pull out numbers for them that destroy parker. CP3? Nope. He's better only by a slim amount.

[Young X]

Lets be real, the only reason why people say sh!t like this is because of the Spurs team success where Parker is like the 3rd most important reason to their winning. If he had to carry teams on his back his whole career this wouldn't even been a discussion because there's almost no way you could say he's better than those guys just going off of well they play basketball on the court.

[PsychoBe]

I actually agree on nash and kidd.. I could pull out numbers for them that destroy parker. CP3? Nope. He's better only by a slim amount.

tp should back off of kidd and nash they are his elders and predecessors and are first ballot hall of famers and legendary players.

cp3? please. dude is nothing next to a fmvp like parker. parker put up more points and assists as he swept the grizzlies while cp3 got backdoor swept and sent home in the first round (big surprise).

[Bob Dole]

Parker is not better than Chris Paul. He simply isn't as good at basketball. Stop with the nonsensical ring and fmvp argument. Y'all sound ridiculous.

[ninephive]

Lets be real, the only reason why people say sh!t like this is because of the Spurs team success where Parker is like the 3rd most important reason to their winning. If he had to carry teams on his back his whole career this wouldn't even been a discussion because there's almost no way you could say he's better than those guys just going off of well they play basketball on the court.
Harden was a 3rd option on a non-championship Thunder team and now goes stat crazy on a mediocre playoff team. CP3 is the same thing. Parker would do the same on a mediocre non-championship team like the ones Kidd and Nash (or any of those "greats" led. No disrespect to them, they just have incomplete resumes.

[tpols]

A Tony Parker hate thread :rockon:

Sign he's made it

[ninephive]

Parker is not better than Chris Paul. He simply isn't as good at basketball. Stop with the nonsensical ring and fmvp argument. Y'all sound ridiculous.
This would be a great argument if you disregarded the arguments that (1) Parker is a FMVP with 3 rings while Paul has never made the WCF (Parker 6 times) (2) Parker sent Paul packing twice (once in embarrassing fashion and has never lost to him in the playoffs, (3) Parker put up MUCH better numbers last year against a common opponent in the Grizzlies (while also sweeping the series, while Paul loses 4-2).

Other than those arguments, it's not even close. Paul is sooooooo good. I mean, he puts up better numbers on a much worse team!!

[Big#50]

He played like shit in 04 against The Laker. Was outplayed by Devin Harris and ball hogged all series in 06 against the Mavs. Played like shit against the Thunder in 2012. Froze Duncan out in game six while gunning for the Finals MVP and caused the championship.
Yeah, he is the best. LOL Dude is top 5.

[rmt]

Fixed. Because it that's not what he meant then he's an asshole and needed my help anyway. We all know what Tony Parker can do. But his rings are because he was on a team with Duncan, not the other way around. And don't mention the MVP, he scored the most because Duncan was collapsed on and Duncan is a post guy. I think that's a "idiot test" type question, who is the Spurs MVP of that year? If you say Parker, you're an idiot.

This.

2006-07 Regular Season
Duncan 20 pts / 10.6 rebs / 3.4 asst / 2.4 blks 54.6%FG all-NBA 1st team, all-defensive 1st team
Parker 18.6 pts / 3.2 rebs / 5.5 asst / 1.1 stl 52%

2007 Playoffs
Duncan 22.2 pts / 11.5 rebs / 3.3 asst / 3.1 blks 52.1%
Parker 20.8 pts / 3.4 rebs / 5.8 asst / 1.1 48%

And this is not even counting the difference in their impact on defense. The key to sweeping the 07 Finals was controlling Lebron with Bowen on the perimeter and Duncan shutting down the paint - forcing Lebron into jump shots which he sucked at then. Once that happened, Spurs would have eventually won (not swept) even without Parker - just too much firepower, too much experience from the veteran Spurs.

[ninephive]

This.

2006-07 Regular Season
Duncan 20 pts / 10.6 rebs / 3.4 asst / 2.4 blks 54.6%FG
Parker 18.6 pts / 3.2 rebs / 5.5 asst / 1.1 stl 52%

2007 Playoffs
Duncan 22.2 pts / 11.5 rebs / 3.3 asst / 3.1 blks 52.1%
Parker 20.8 pts / 3.4 rebs / 5.8 asst / 1.1 48%

And this is not even counting the difference in their impact on defense. The key to sweeping the 07 Finals was controlling Lebron with Bowen on the perimeter and Duncan shutting down the paint - forcing Lebron into jump shots which he sucked at then. Once that happened, Spurs would have eventually won (not swept) even without Parker - just too much firepower, too much experience from the veteran Spurs.
Fair enough, but TP averaged 6.2 more PPG in the Finals on .568 shooting for a PG (which is insane) vs Duncan shooting .446 (as a PF/C) and Manu shooting .367. Parker dominated that series, not to mention grabbing 5 boards/game as a PG, which is pretty dang good.

[Artillery]

We gonna act like the same isn't true for PF's?

Same is true for Kobe. Shaq still wins three championships if you replaced Kirby with Vince Carter or Tmac. Hell, he might even win more. Can't imagine any shooting guard playing worse than Kobe did against the Pistons in '04. Manu Ginobilli lit 'em up in the Finals the year after. No excuse for Kobe's poor performance when a Euro guard rapes that same Pistons defense the year after.

[IncarceratedBob]

Same is true for Kobe. Shaq still wins three championships if you replaced Kirby with Vince Carter or Tmac. Hell, he might even win more. Can't imagine any shooting guard playing worse than Kobe did against the Pistons in '04. Manu Ginobilli lit 'em up in the Finals the year after. No excuse for Kobe's poor performance when a Euro guard rapes that same Pistons defense the year after.
Same is true for LeBron. Wade/Bosh still wins three championships is you replace Bran with Kevin Durant or Melo. Hell, they might even win more. Cant imagine any small forward playing worse than LeBron did against the Mavs in '11. Kevin Durant lit 'em up in the Finals the year after. No excuse for LeBron's poor performance when a skinny soft forward rapes that same Mavs defense the year after.

[houston]

no he is not

[rmt]

Fair enough, but TP averaged 6.2 more PPG in the Finals on .568 shooting for a PG (which is insane) vs Duncan shooting .446 (as a PF/C) and Manu shooting .367. Parker dominated that series, not to mention grabbing 5 boards/game as a PG, which is pretty dang good.

Parker is who he is - a very good PG with fantastic body control who has an uncanny way of scoring in the paint. Put a long defender on him or double team and he doesn't pass well enough to make the opponent pay. Pack the lane as Phil Jackson did and it neutralizes Parker. Yes, he's developed a good mid-range game, but that isn't good enough to beat you with that.

I am surprised that a Spur fan would be so anti-Duncan. Pop has always said the reason for the Spurs long success has been DRob and Duncan.

Some people give Parker a pass for last year's Finals because he was injured. So if he's injured, why was he chucking in game 6 to the tune of 6 of 23 (26.1%) when Duncan was 13 of 21 (61.9%) and Leonard was 9 of 14 (64.3%). And we won't talk about his paltry 10 pts (3 of 12 for 25%) in the most important game of the year - I guess you could say at least he didn't chuck in game 7.

[ThePhantomCreep]

Same is true for Kobe. Shaq still wins three championships if you replaced Kirby with Vince Carter or Tmac. Hell, he might even win more. Can't imagine any shooting guard playing worse than Kobe did against the Pistons in '04. Manu Ginobilli lit 'em up in the Finals the year after. No excuse for Kobe's poor performance when a Euro guard rapes that same Pistons defense the year after.
Bringing up Kobe for no reason = mentally ruined f@ggot

Nash, Kidd, and Paul are/were clearly better than Parker.

[ThePhantomCreep]

Dream got two rings with Kenny Smith as his starting PG.

So why does Duncan (who I'm told is greater than Dream) only have three rings with a PG who is better than Nash/Kidd/CP3? To say nothing of Manu, who gets rated above prime Mcgrady/Allen/Carter/Iverson by posters.

[Artillery]

Bringing up Kobe for no reason = mentally ruined f@ggot

Definitely salty over the fact that even Richard Jefferson would win three titles with prime Shaq.

[rmt]

Dream got two rings with Kenny Smith as his starting PG.

So why does Duncan (who I'm told is greater than Dream) only have three rings with a PG who is better than Nash/Kidd/CP3? To say nothing of Manu, who gets rated above prime Mcgrady/Allen/Carter/Iverson by posters.

You do know that Duncan won a championship without either one of them. In 03, Manu was a rookie and Parker was a 20 year old 2nd year player who was benched in the 4th quarter of the last game of the Finals for Speedy Claxton. Parker did a lot of growing up to be the player he is today.

[Artillery]

You do know that Duncan won a championship without either one of them. In 03, Manu was a rookie and Parker was a 20 year old 2nd year player who was benched in the 4th quarter of the last game of the Finals for Speedy Claxton. Parker did a lot of growing up to be the player he is today.

The truthbombs about Kobe being a replaceable sidekick during the threepeat have fried the wiring in his brain. I mean, in one post he says Parker's worse than Nash/Kidd/CP3. Then in the next one he says he's better than those three. Dude can't even keep the facts straight in his own arguments.

[Sakkreth]

You do know that Duncan won a championship without either one of them. In 03, Manu was a rookie and Parker was a 20 year old 2nd year player who was benched in the 4th quarter of the last game of the Finals for Speedy Claxton. Parker did a lot of growing up to be the player he is today.

Exactly it's two different teams, not to say that Parker is bad or something (very underrated on ish imo), but Duncan could win without him or Manu, Timmy is top10 in goat list, it's very hard to argue against that. I'd take Parker over cp3, cp3 is not good enough to win on his own Parker isn't either, but who do I want next to all-time great like Timmy ? If it's cp3 or Parker, I choose Parker.

[qrich]

This would be a great argument if you disregarded the arguments that (1) Parker is a FMVP with 3 rings while Paul has never made the WCF (Parker 6 times) (2) Parker sent Paul packing twice (once in embarrassing fashion and has never lost to him in the playoffs, (3) Parker put up MUCH better numbers last year against a common opponent in the Grizzlies (while also sweeping the series, while Paul loses 4-2).

Other than those arguments, it's not even close. Paul is sooooooo good. I mean, he puts up better numbers on a much worse team!!

Spurs have idiot homers as well....who knew.

[ThePhantomCreep]

Exactly it's two different teams, not to say that Parker is bad or something (very underrated on ish imo), but Duncan could win without him or Manu, Timmy is top10 in goat list, it's very hard to argue against that. I'd take Parker over cp3, cp3 is not good enough to win on his own Parker isn't either, but who do I want next to all-time great like Timmy ? If it's cp3 or Parker, I choose Parker.
Anyone who entertains the notion that Parker is better than CP3 is overrating him.

[ThePhantomCreep]

The truthbombs about Kobe being a replaceable sidekick during the threepeat have fried the wiring in his brain. I mean, in one post he says Parker's worse than Nash/Kidd/CP3. Then in the next one he says he's better than those three. Dude can't even keep the facts straight in his own arguments.

Pretty obvious I don't believe that. But if Parker was that good, why does Duncan only have three rings with him?

Can you imagine a 12 year run with Dream/CP3/Ray Allen?

Your argument against Kobe is weak sauce--Shaq had super stacked teams in Orlando and LA and didn't win sh*t until Kobe blossomed into a star.

[AirFederer]

One of the most underrated players ever.


3 rings, 1 FMVP :bowdown:

[Artillery]

Pretty obvious I don't believe that. But if Parker was that good, why does Duncan only have three rings with him?

Probably because he wasn't that good? I have never argued on Parker's behalf. Always considered him a pretty awful point guard during Duncan's prime years. He's only recently started to become a competent playmaker(although a little too late since Duncan and Manu are near the end of their careers).


Your argument against Kobe is weak sauce--Shaq had super stacked teams in Orlando and LA and didn't win sh*t until Kobe blossomed into a star.

Shaq winning in 2000 had less to do with Kobe and more to do with him having one of the most dominant seasons in NBA history. 2000 Kobe was pretty mediocre. A shitty .517 TS in the playoffs, bad defense,

2000 RAPM came out recently and Kobe was rated well below Vince Carter. A huge negative on defense and not as impactful as Carter on offense. It's safe to say you could replace Kobe with 2000 Vince and Lakers still win the title. Kobe "blossoming into a star" had very little to do with Shaq winning for the first time.

[Anaximandro1]

Both Parker and Manu deserve to be in the Hall of Fame (strong NBA career and international resume ... they've both done enough)



Probably because he wasn't that good? I have never argued on Parker's behalf. Always considered him a pretty awful point guard during Duncan's prime years.
Well, Parker was a teenager when he joined the Spurs in 2001.


Playoffs - From 2002 to 2007

Parker

- Games 100

- 101 points per 100 possessions (Superstar level 110 point per 100 possesions)

- Usage rate % of 26.6 (Superstar level 27.0)

- Minutes Played 36.3 (Superstar level 38.0)

- TS% 50.2 (Superstar level 55.0)

- AST% 24.5 (Superstar level PG 40.0 / SG 25.0)

- PER 15.3 (Superstar level 25.0)

- WS/48 0.070 (Superstar level 0.20)


Playoffs - From 2008 to 2013

Parker

- Games 73

- 107 points per 100 possessions (Superstar level 110 point per 100 possesions)

- Usage rate % 29.2 (Superstar level 27.0)

- Minutes Played 36.3 (Superstar level 38.0)

- TS% 53.5 (Superstar level 55.0)

- AST% 33.0 (Superstar level PG 40.0 / SG 25.0)

- PER 20.3 (Superstar level 25.0)

- WS/48 0.121 (Superstar level 0.20)



He's only recently started to become a competent playmaker(although a little too late since Duncan and Manu are near the end of their careers).

Parker is one of the best guards in the league over the last six years. Unfortunately, Parker improvement is not enough to offset huge declines in Duncan's production.


Playoffs - From 2002 to 2007

Duncan

- 99 games

- 113 points per 100 possessions

- Usage Rate% 29.3

- Minuted Played 39.6

- TS% 56.2

- PER 27.6

- WS/48 0.231

Playoffs From 2008 to 2013


Duncan

- 73 games

- 105 points per 100 possessions

- Usage Rate% 26.2

- Minutes Played 35.8

- TS% 51.6

- PER 21.4

- WS/48 0.137

[Dresta]

I seem to remember that Parker would routinely tear Nash to shreds in the playoffs, and this had a lot to do with Phoenix's inability to overcome the Spurs.

[SexSymbol]

Agreed, Parker is the best point guard of the last 7-8 years.

[fpliii]

Nope. Don't get me wrong, I like Parker's game, but most people prop him up to disparage Timmy.

[SexSymbol]

Probably because he wasn't that good? I have never argued on Parker's behalf. Always considered him a pretty awful point guard during Duncan's prime years. He's only recently started to become a competent playmaker(although a little too late since Duncan and Manu are near the end of their careers).



Shaq winning in 2000 had less to do with Kobe and more to do with him having one of the most dominant seasons in NBA history. 2000 Kobe was pretty mediocre. A shitty .517 TS in the playoffs, bad defense,

2000 RAPM came out recently and Kobe was rated well below Vince Carter. A huge negative on defense and not as impactful as Carter on offense. It's safe to say you could replace Kobe with 2000 Vince and Lakers still win the title. Kobe "blossoming into a star" had very little to do with Shaq winning for the first time.
Revisionist history at it's best

[rmt]

I seem to remember that Parker would routinely tear Nash to shreds in the playoffs, and this had a lot to do with Phoenix's inability to overcome the Spurs.

It was Duncan who gave PHX problems - that's why they eventually tried Shaq.

03 Playoffs vs PHX
Duncan 18.7 pts / 16 rebs / 5.2 assts / 3.5 blks 52.1%
Parker 13.5 pts / 2 rebs / 2.5 assts / 1.3 stl 39.8%

05 Playoffs vs PHX
Duncan 27.4 pts / 13.8 rebs / 3.2 assts / 1.8 blks 52.7%
Parker 20.4 pts / 3 rebs / 4.2 assts / 1.2 stl 45.9%

07 Playoffs vs PHX
Duncan 26.8 pts / 13.7 rebs / 1.2 assts / 4.2 blks 57.3%
Parker 20.8 pts / 2.8 rebs / 5.7 assts / 1 stl 45.2%

08 Playoffs vs PHX
Duncan 24.8 pts / 13.8 rebs / 2.6 assts / 2.4 blks 49.5%
Parker 29.6 pts / 3.4 rebs / 7 assts / 1.4 stl 52.3%

10 Playoffs vs PHX
Duncan 20.3 pts / 10.5 rebs / 2.5 assts / 2.8 blks 55.2%
Parker 19.5 pts / 4 rebs / 5 assts 47.9%

Only in 08 playoffs did Parker out-perform Duncan OFFENSIVELY.

[fpliii]

It was Duncan who gave PHX problems - that's why they eventually tried Shaq.

03 Playoffs vs PHX
Duncan 18.7 pts / 16 rebs / 5.2 assts / 3.5 blks 52.1%
Parker 13.5 pts / 2 rebs / 2.5 assts / 1.3 stl 39.8%

05 Playoffs vs PHX
Duncan 27.4 pts / 13.8 rebs / 3.2 assts / 1.8 blks 52.7%
Parker 20.4 pts / 3 rebs / 4.2 assts / 1.2 stl 45.9%

07 Playoffs vs PHX
Duncan 26.8 pts / 13.7 rebs / 1.2 assts / 4.2 blks 57.3%
Parker 20.8 pts / 2.8 rebs / 5.7 assts / 1 stl 45.2%

08 Playoffs vs PHX
Duncan 24.8 pts / 13.8 rebs / 2.6 assts / 2.4 blks 49.5%
Parker 29.6 pts / 3.4 rebs / 7 assts / 1.4 stl 52.3%

10 Playoffs vs PHX
Duncan 20.3 pts / 10.5 rebs / 2.5 assts / 2.8 blks 55.2%
Parker 19.5 pts / 4 rebs / 5 assts 47.9%

Only in 08 playoffs did Parker out-perform Duncan OFFENSIVELY.
:applause:

[Euroleague]

Spanoulis is better.

[bizil]

"They can talk about Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, Deron Williams and Chris Paul. I still have the most rings." -Tony Parker

:applause:

I think he would get more praise if he was American.

No doubt Tony Parker is a sure fire HOFer. GOAT wise, I think he's in the top 15 to 20 PG's ever. And he's only 31 years old. So when its all said and done, he might get in the top 10 GOAT PG's. But in comparison to the PG's he named, ALL OF THEM are better floor generals than Tony. Tony is really a shoot first or maybe even a combo style of PG. Kind of like the guys like Rose and Westrbook. Hell if those guys were coached by a Larry Brown, there's a good chance he would move those three to SG like he did Iverson. And that's isn't a bad thing. But at PG, there is a certain premium I place on being a QB. Paul, Williams, and Nash prove that u can be a pass first PG and still be an alpha dog level scorer when they choose to. But GOAT wise, Nash and Kidd are the only two he takes a backseat to in that early 2000s era post Stockton and Payton.