Scottie Pippen vs LeBron James

[russwest0]

Peak Scottie was obviously twice the defender LeBron is, along with being a better rebounder and an equal playmaker. Plus has the edge with his 6 rings. Peak LeBron gets the edge in scoring and scoring efficiency however.

Who you got?

[navy]

Lebron is a terrible basketball player. Pippen definitely. Am I doing it right?

[Vienceslav]

If you stopped at better defender I would have agreed, you took it too far.
I got LeBron by a wide margin in this one, though it's much closer if they played one on one, but LeBron is much better as a team and a franchise player.

[russwest0]

If you stopped at better defender I would have agreed, you took it too far.
I got LeBron by a wide margin in this one, though it's much closer if they played one on one, but LeBron is much better as a team and a franchise player.

We saw what Pippen did when Jordan first retired. Came really close to getting that team to the ECF. Give him D Wade as the SG, Chris Bosh, a solid bench, the greatest 3pt shooter of all time, Shane Battier, etc? Basically, put Pippen in LeBrons place and the Heat are sitting with 3 rings right now instead of 2.

[Yankstar]

Both Betas, I don't know if you would of gotten 6 rings if you paired LBJ with MJ though so I would have to give it to Pippen.

[shallehalle]

Why feed the troll?

[Im Still Ballin]

Russwest you are officially the worst poster on ISH.

[L.A. Jazz]

i love Pipp. one of my 3 favorite players. he was a better more active defender, but as a scorer he was not as good as Lebron is. and the difference is bigger than the difference in defense.

[dabigbaws]

Pippen.

[ForeverHeat]

Pippen himself admitted Lebron > MJ. Scottie knows a lot more about Jordan and his own respective games than some random internet f*g whos "dating" Angie Verona.

Lebron >>> Pippen. Lebron also can be a better defender, the only difference is Lebron needs to conserve energy for the offensive end, therefore there are a lot of times during a game where he doesnt exert as much energy defencively as he could. Pippen relied on Jordan so he could focus completely on defence.

[DFish24]

Pippen. Heat 4-peat with Pip instead of bran.

[ThePhantomCreep]

Pippen himself admitted Lebron > MJ. Scottie knows a lot more about Jordan and his own respective games than some random internet f*g whos "dating" Angie Verona.

Lebron >>> Pippen. Lebron also can be a better defender, the only difference is Lebron needs to conserve energy for the offensive end, therefore there are a lot of times during a game where he doesnt exert as much energy defencively as he could. Pippen relied on Jordan so he could focus completely on defence.

Pippen made that statement on the eve of the 2011 Finals. He still hasn't wiped all the egg from his face.

And lmao @ LeBron > Pippen on defense and your weak excuse. You act like Pippen was Rodman on offense, averaging 6ppg. Dude had major responsibilities on that size of the ball.

[diamenz]

Pippen himself admitted Lebron > MJ. Scottie knows a lot more about Jordan and his own respective games than some random internet f*g whos "dating" Angie Verona.

Lebron >>> Pippen. Lebron also can be a better defender, the only difference is Lebron needs to conserve energy for the offensive end, therefore there are a lot of times during a game where he doesnt exert as much energy defencively as he could. Pippen relied on Jordan so he could focus completely on defence.

no. during the championship years, the offense was run through scottie. jordan took over when he needed to.

anyway, i'd probably have to take lebron, even though i wouldn't want to.

[sd3035]

Pippen

[TAZORAC]

Peak Scottie was obviously twice the defender LeBron is, along with being a better rebounder and an equal playmaker. Plus has the edge with his 6 rings. Peak LeBron gets the edge in scoring and scoring efficiency however.

Who you got?

You don't even believe that he was an "equal playmaker".

[LeGOAT]

0/10

[oarabbus]

Pippen is worse than a D-League scrub compared to Bran. End of topic

[ImKobe]

Pippen: better defender, pretty much equal at rebounding & he could give you 20+ a night
Lebron: better playmaker, scorer

It's tough to compare them because they're 20 years apart.

[K Xerxes]

Even as a huge Pippen fan, there isn't a debate here... unless you are hating on Bron that is.

[scm5]

Both Betas, I don't know if you would of gotten 6 rings if you paired LBJ with MJ though so I would have to give it to Pippen.

Bro, Pippen is no beta. Anyone would be considered a beta playing next to MJ. Pippen was actually pretty freaking alpha. He was a great leader and led the Bulls to an amazing record and almost the ECF without MJ.

Pippen's iconic dunk on Ewing, then walking up to Spike Lee and telling him "sit your ass down".

You only wish you could be that alpha.

[aboss4real24]

Dum comparison

and pippen is a bad Playoff performer

[russwest0]

You don't even believe that he was an "equal playmaker".

You don't think Pippen could average, at least, 6.5 assists (with almost 4 turnovers per game) with LeBrons current supporting cast? He'd probably get that while dominating the ball less than LeBron is right now too.

Also, was thinking about this the other day, imagine that perimiter defense:

Wade, Battier, Pippen :eek: :eek: :eek:

[r0drig0lac]

even if lebron is overrated because this was weak, it is considerably better than pippen.

[ImKobe]

Dum comparison

and pippen is a bad Playoff performer

Look at his Finals numbers during the 3-peat era bro & look at his defense. I guess averaging 21 8 8 for his first 3 Finals series is bad.

[Keno]

both are better than durant that's for sure.

[The-Legend-24]

Pippen, easily.

Look at it this way, MJ was choking year after year before Pippen came and set him straight, alpha as fvck!

Alpha > Beta, it's simple.

[97 bulls]

You guys can't be serious here. I love Pip, and even feel his impact is close to James, but Pips just not as good as James.

[russwest0]

You guys can't be serious here. I love Pip, and even feel his impact is close to James, but Pips just not as good as James.

Heat vs Mavs
Heat vs Thunder
Heat vs Spurs

How many rings do the Heat have if you put prime Scottie Pippen in LeBron James place for these 3 series?

[arifgokcen]

You know the man himself knows and admits that lebron is better than him but just for the sake of trolling,you guys still keeps this up.

GOOD JOB

[russwest0]

You know the man himself knows and admits that lebron is better than him but just for the sake of trolling,you guys still keeps this up.

GOOD JOB

You're retarded. When did Pippen ever say "LeBron James is better than I was." And regardless, Isiah Thomas said it would be an honor to be in the same sentence as Chris Paul... yet we all know Isiah Thomas was better than Chris Paul is.

I've posed questions related to the two for people to answer and the LeBron stans are ignoring them.

[moe94]

You're retarded. When did Pippen ever say "LeBron James is better than I was."

http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Third_Party_Photo/2006/02/18/1140276806_8014.jpg

[K Xerxes]

Heat vs Mavs
Heat vs Thunder
Heat vs Spurs

How many rings do the Heat have if you put prime Scottie Pippen in LeBron James place for these 3 series?

This hypothetical is worthless. It assumes that the Heat make it to the finals every year, even though James played a pivotal role in some of the series leading up to the finals. Pippen isn't matching his production in both Indiana series, Celtics 2012; not to mention that James actually had a good playoffs run leading up to the finals in 11, hitting some clutch shots.

I don't see the Heat getting past the Pacers/Celtics in 2012 and the Pacers in 2013. So maybe 1 ring? I'd even go as far to say they'd struggle to take down the Bulls in 2011, although Pippen's superior perimeter defense would be key here (but they'd lose James' superior offensive production).

Now, even if they were to win two or three rings, it wouldn't provide a very good answer to who is better between Pippen and James. This hypothetical is more pertinent for comparing styles, not ability. Pippen may gel better with Wade and Bosh, but that doesn't mean his overall impact is better than James. In fact, James and Wade are pretty redudant, so I think if you pair Wade with a number of great in history, they'd have equal or more success. It doesn't mean a large number of those players are better than James at all.

...To give a serious answer to a troll.

[russwest0]

Again, you underestimate the impact Pippen has on defense compared to LeBron James. Rewatch the Indiana and Celtics series in particular. LeBron in many moments had a negative impact on defense.

Pippen is a better fit with Wade, a better fit with the roster, and would absolutely lock down some guys that LeBron struggled with on D. (like Lance Stephenson last year...)

It is hilarious to see LeBron get overrated as a passer though. "Pippen doesn't even come close as a passer!"

Okay, how many assists would Pippen average as the guy with LeBrons current supporting cast? How many turnovers?

*silence*

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[russwest0]

Some of yall severely underestimate the impact of putting up 20/8/8 while playing ELITE DEFENSE for 4 quarters.

[Trollsmasher]

ban OP pls

[K Xerxes]

If you were there to watch the Bulls, you'd know that the offense ran through Pippen, so I don't understand why you think his assist numbers would magically go up if Miami's offense ran through him.

Besides, having a better supporting cast doesn't magically make your assist numbers go up - James' assist numbers were higher in Cleveland, Paul's numbers haven't increased since teaming up with Blake. You clearly don't understand basketball. Having watched both of them in their primes, James is clearly a better playmaker.

[97 bulls]

Some of yall severely underestimate the impact of putting up 20/8/8 while playing ELITE DEFENSE for 4 quarters.
I understand your point.completely. So would you say that Pippen wass as good or even better than Kevin Durant?

[sammichoffate]

I'm now convinced that Scottie Pippen is the most underrated player in NBA history.

[moe94]

I understand your point.completely. So would you say that Pippen wass as good or even better than Kevin Durant?

Got em

See how he weasels his way out of this.

[Trollsmasher]

I understand your point.completely. So would you say that Pippen wass as good or even better than Kevin Durant?
He quite surely had more all around impact on the game.

[97 bulls]

If you were there to watch the Bulls, you'd know that the offense ran through Pippen, so I don't understand why you think his assist numbers would magically go up if Miami's offense ran through him.

Besides, having a better supporting cast doesn't magically make your assist numbers go up - James' assist numbers were higher in Cleveland, Paul's numbers haven't increased since teaming up with Blake. You clearly don't understand basketball. Having watched both of them in their primes, James is clearly a better playmaker.
The Bulls ran a different offense from the Heat. And consider this. When Pippen played in Portland, he SHARED the PG duties with Damon Stoudemire and avg 6 assist. Thats an older Pip playing less minutes

[hahaitme]

I understand your point.completely. So would you say that Pippen wass as good or even better than Kevin Durant?

http://i.imgur.com/GSRtTq8.jpg

[moe94]

http://i.imgur.com/GSRtTq8.jpg
:roll:

[sammichoffate]

http://i.imgur.com/GSRtTq8.jpg:roll:

[dannysc305]

Fvck y'all. LeBron > in every facet of the game

[Trollsmasher]

http://i.imgur.com/GSRtTq8.jpg
:roll:

[Im Still Ballin]

http://i.imgur.com/GSRtTq8.jpg

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

Russwest. Sit. the. fvck. down.

you're finished.

[Heatles201]

in b4 he logs in alt and supports himself :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[raprap]

Russwest0 :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Marlo_Stanfield]

Russwest getting filled with led once again:applause: :applause:

[sammichoffate]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-85KQHe_iNZ8/T5gqb6OLipI/AAAAAAAACnk/MAp04-esyCA/w506-h376/James-Harden-elbow.jpg-large
Had to remind me of that :roll:

[russwest0]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-85KQHe_iNZ8/T5gqb6OLipI/AAAAAAAACnk/MAp04-esyCA/w506-h376/James-Harden-elbow.jpg-large
Had to remind me of that :roll:

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Keno]

http://i.imgur.com/GSRtTq8.jpg

lmaoooooooo.

/russwest's e-career.
as if it wasn't already over

[nzahir]

lmfao...mods...
ISH is probably the worst sports forum out their today, go on for laughs at times because of how low the iq of some members are. Forum has 0 credibility and most nigas are actually dumb here in real life.

[nzahir]

http://i.imgur.com/GSRtTq8.jpg
Ethered

[The-Legend-24]

http://i.imgur.com/GSRtTq8.jpg
:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[Prometheus]

:facepalm

[russwest0]

6>2

And if he played in LeFlops place, he'd have 3 rings.

No contest tbh

[Prometheus]

6>2

And if he played in LeFlops place, he'd have 3 rings.

No contest tbh

:facepalm

[Crimsonrain777]

http://i.imgur.com/GSRtTq8.jpg

damn:oldlol: :oldlol:

[215Philly]

http://i.imgur.com/GSRtTq8.jpg
:lebronamazed: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[LongLiveTheKing]

Scottie Pippen>KD

[wildchild]

http://i.imgur.com/GSRtTq8.jpg

Fail... Lebron doesn't play for the Lakers.

[Crimsonrain777]

Fail... Lebron doesn't play for the Lakers.

damn bro. you got that intellect game on-lock :applause:

[D.J.]

:lebronamazed: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


^^^ :roll: :roll: :roll:

[bizil]

Are we serious here? Bron is on another level or two than Scottie! This isnt even close! U ONLY compare Bron to MJ, Kobe, Big O, Bird, and Magic perimeter player wise! As great all around as Pip was, he never proved he was an alpha dog on top of that! The other icons I named were epic all around and alpha dogs. So Pip takes a backseat to those guys. And frankly, Pip takes a backseat to guys like Baylor, Durant, Barry, and Dr. J too. If Pip showed that alpha dog gene consistently. he might be a top 3 GOAT SF ever as we speak. His resume with six rings, redefining the SF position, epic defense, etc. was tremendous. He was just missing the most premium asset in the sport, and that's the alpha dog gene. Bron has that, Pip's point forward skiils, and the body of Karl Malone on top of it.

[DFish24]

Pippen. No way he gets outplayed by Jason Terry.

[pauk]

Scottie Pippen: "Michael Jordan is probably the greatest scorer to ever play the game. I may go so far as saying LeBron James may be the greatest player to ever play the game."

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Scottie-Pippen-LeBron-8216-may-be-the-greates?urn=nba-wp3977

[Lebron23]

Lebron is better than Pippen, Durant and your master Kobe.

[red1]

Scottie Pippen: "Michael Jordan is probably the greatest scorer to ever play the game. I may go so far as saying LeBron James may be the greatest player to ever play the game."

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Scottie-Pippen-LeBron-8216-may-be-the-greates?urn=nba-wp3977
:lebronamazed:

[red1]

http://i.imgur.com/GSRtTq8.jpg
:roll: this is gold

[kshutts1]

This hypothetical is worthless. It assumes that the Heat make it to the finals every year, even though James played a pivotal role in some of the series leading up to the finals. Pippen isn't matching his production in both Indiana series, Celtics 2012; not to mention that James actually had a good playoffs run leading up to the finals in 11, hitting some clutch shots.

I don't see the Heat getting past the Pacers/Celtics in 2012 and the Pacers in 2013. So maybe 1 ring? I'd even go as far to say they'd struggle to take down the Bulls in 2011, although Pippen's superior perimeter defense would be key here (but they'd lose James' superior offensive production).

Now, even if they were to win two or three rings, it wouldn't provide a very good answer to who is better between Pippen and James. This hypothetical is more pertinent for comparing styles, not ability. Pippen may gel better with Wade and Bosh, but that doesn't mean his overall impact is better than James. In fact, James and Wade are pretty redudant, so I think if you pair Wade with a number of great in history, they'd have equal or more success. It doesn't mean a large number of those players are better than James at all.

...To give a serious answer to a troll.
I was going to answer seriously, but that last paragraph is basically what I would have said.

Pippen may have had more success with the Heat team, but he's not better than Lebron.

[Rose'sACL]

I was going to answer seriously, but that last paragraph is basically what I would have said.

Pippen may have had more success with the Heat team, but he's not better than Lebron.
pippen might have won in 2011 but i am more than sure that he loses in 2012 and 2013.

[Nash]

http://i.imgur.com/GSRtTq8.jpg
Should be posted anytime russwest says his stupid shit.

[Dragonyeuw]

Ok this is getting a little ridiculous. I love Scottie Pippen( one of my 5 favorite alltime players), but this isnt even up for debate. Lebron is pretty much Scottie on steroids. I'd say their games are cut from the same cloth but really, come on.

[Dragonyeuw]

If you were there to watch the Bulls, you'd know that the offense ran through Pippen, so I don't understand why you think his assist numbers would magically go up if Miami's offense ran through him.

I don't see why they wouldn't with the amount of scoring options on the Heat roster. The bulls triangle offense as designed makes it where no one player is going to amass high assist numbers, and even with that MJ and Scottie were pretty much getting 6 apg each in that offense, heck Scottie averaged 7 apg in 92. Considering he's not the scorer Lebron is, with Bosh, Wade, Allen, Beasley on the Heat, can't see why placed in the 'Lebron role' that he wouldn't get at least 8 apg, quite easily too.

[Duncan21formvp]

Lebron was the 2nd option on Miami

[Reggie43]

Pretty sure we have a resident Pippen stan for this?

Or does his inner Lebrontard tell him to stay away from these types of threads :roll:

[aceman]

Scottie a top ten player for the 90's & simply one of the best defenders & SF.... But Lebron is on another level

[Reggie43]

Scottie a top ten player for the 90's & simply one of the best defenders & SF.... But Lebron is on another level

How does the matchup go in terms of the numbers? Goat sf vs the Goat perimeter defender ever (according to their fans).

Seeing that players with a similar defensive built/playstyle had decent success defensively against the King (old bowen/marion/iggy, young kawhi)

How does the Goat perimeter do (Pippen) with a good team behind him? Surely he does better than the aforementioned who were all past their peak or too young (kawhi)

[aceman]

How does the matchup go in terms of the numbers? Goat sf vs the Goat perimeter defender ever (according to their fans).

Seeing that players with a similar defensive built/playstyle had decent success defensively against the King (old bowen/marion/iggy, young kawhi)

How does the Goat perimeter do (Pippen) with a good team behind him? Surely he does better than the aforementioned who were all past their peak or too young (kawhi)

If you polled most NBA fans who are the greatest sf & defensive sf names that would come back the most are Lebron & Pippen respectively - not just fans.

[Reggie43]

If you polled most NBA fans who are the greatest sf & defensive sf names that would come back the most are Lebron & Pippen respectively - not just fans.

Sure but what are your thoughts about the question?

[aceman]

Sure but what are your thoughts about the question?

I don't know - different eras. Basketball today another game altogether

[Reggie43]

I guess its all fun and games with these agenda driven "Pippen Fans" until their "idol/fave player" gets compared to their "God" (Lebron)

[Roundball_Rock]

I guess its all fun and games with these agenda driven "Pippen Fans" until their "idol/fave player" gets compared to their "God" (Lebron)

This coming from someone who claims Pippen is one of his favorite players but rips him daily on here, claims to be a Pacers fan but is oddly protective and defensive of MJ while hating on Pippen (neither player has a real connection to the Pacers). :lol

LeBron is the superior player but it would be closer than people think. If pre-prime Kawhi, Iggy gave him problems defending him imagine prime Pippen. The closest comp we have for this match up is Pippen vs. Hill and Pippen had a lot of success against Hill.

Regarding fake "Pippen fans", it is hard to keep the MJ stans' spinning narratives straight, but we have heard repeatedly of late that the Bulls were a very popular team--the most popular team in fact--of the 90's and that popularity extended to people other than MJ (the excuse for when the agenda calls for not counting BJ Armstrong as a real all-star--even though MJ stans are quick to count him in other contexts, like the 94' thread you were in). Does it not then follow that Pippen, a superstar on the same team, had fans?

You aren't old enough to know it but those of us who were know Pippen was one of the most popular players of his era. His jersey was sold across the country as one metric. Another is his high fan vote totals for all-star games. Yet another is at one point he was making more in endorsements than all but two other players. But you had to be there to know this.

[Reggie43]

This coming from someone who claims Pippen is one of his favorite players but rips him daily on here, claims to be a Pacers fan but is oddly protective and defensive of MJ while hating on Pippen (neither player has a real connection to the Pacers). :lol

LeBron is the superior player but it would be closer than people think. If pre-prime Kawhi, Iggy gave him problems defending him imagine prime Pippen. The closest comp we have for this match up is Pippen vs. Hill and Pippen had a lot of success against Hill.

Regarding fake "Pippen fans", it is hard to keep the MJ stans' spinning narratives straight, but we have heard repeatedly of late that the Bulls were a very popular team--the most popular team in fact--of the 90's and that popularity extended to people other than MJ (the excuse for when the agenda calls for not counting BJ Armstrong as a real all-star--even though MJ stans are quick to count him in other contexts, like the 94' thread you were in). Does it not then follow that Pippen, a superstar on the same team, had fans?

You aren't old enough to know it but those of us who were know Pippen was one of the most popular players of his era. His jersey was sold across the country as one metric. Another is his high fan vote totals for all-star games. Yet another is at one point he was making more in endorsements than all but two other players. But you had to be there to know this.

I guess by your words its safe to assume that a Peak Pippen could have shut Lebron down? or did you purposely left out Bowen and Marion in the comparison, the 2 players who brought his numbers down while defending him?

Never was a fan of mainstream stars so most of the players I supported never won a ring but suddenly I am this Jordan stan :roll:

Are you going with the "Not old enough" route :lol when most of my arguments are based off memory and not the copy paste shit you provide? Heck you even tried to use another posters arguments against me because you never had anything decent to begin with :roll:

Me looking like a Pippen hater is a reaction to you overrating him as some sort of irreplaceable legend. Tons of posters here became jordan stans overnight just because you cant keep your bias/agenda to yourself and everyone who disagrees with your bullshit = Jordan stan :facepalm

[Axe]

I guess by your words its safe to assume that a Peak Pippen could have shut Lebron down? or did you purposely left out Bowen and Marion in the comparison, the 2 players who brought his numbers down while defending him?

Never was a fan of mainstream stars so most of the players I supported never won a ring but suddenly I am this Jordan stan :roll:

Are you going with the "Not old enough" route :lol when most of my arguments are based off memory and not the copy paste shit you provide? Heck you even tried to use another posters arguments against me because you never had anything decent to begin with :roll:

Me looking like a Pippen hater is a reaction to you overrating him as some sort of irreplaceable legend. Tons of posters here became jordan stans overnight just because you cant keep your bias/agenda to yourself and everyone who disagrees with your bullshit = Jordan stan :facepalm
Everything you see are the same chosen words of wisdom and relevant copypasta crap left in related threads :oldlol:

Oh, and you should always agree with the perspective, because otherwise, "you are clueless and delusional".

[Phoenix]

I've always thought that Scottie is probably the best of the Kawhi/Iggy/Pip mold of perimeter defender for Lebron, in theory of course because we won't ever see that matchup. He's the closest in size/athleticism to Lebron with the defensive intangibles/IQ to make him work for his points as much as any more more modern defensive player. Someone like PG13 also fits that mold but as good as he is defensively, he's not prime Pip on that end.

[Roundball_Rock]

You don't "shut down" a player of this caliber. He would slow him down.


Never was a fan of mainstream stars so most of the players I supported never won a ring but suddenly I am this Jordan stan

Well, you explain it: why are you so defensive/protective of MJ and such a Pippen hater (two players with almost no connection to the Pacers. Ewing does...)? Pippen was a random 90's superstar (that he was a superstar would not be disputed by anyone who was around then). His peers don't get this same hate. Pippen does, emanating from Jordan stan's insecurity (the same people who prop up all those said peers) after the fact as they get increasingly insecure as the years click by. It is both amusing and sad to see. They keep getting more extreme as the pressure from LeBron intensifies.


Are you going with the "Not old enough" route when most of my arguments are based off memory and not the copy paste shit you provide?

That's because I bring the receipts to expose deception from the "memory" of people like you. Any clown can make statements like "Miller>Pippen" or "Kemp>Pippen". No one cares what Reggie43 thinks 25 years later based on an agenda. I post evidence from relevant sources with context for Pippen and others (not deceptively hammering him in a vacuum for standards that dishonest MJ stans don't apply to other players) and let people decide. Seeing where Pippen's stock was a decade ago on ISH to where it is today, it is obvious which side is winning. :pimp:


Me looking like a Pippen hater is a reaction to you overrating him as some sort of irreplaceable legend

Other than to MJ stans, the consensus is he is top 20-30 all-time. Odd for a "Pippen fan" to so he was easily replaceable. Also odd for you to claim Pippen had no real fans. You claim to be one yourself; you claim to have grown up by then. Yet you have no "memory" of Pippen being popular then?

[Phoenix]

LeBron is the superior player but it would be closer than people think. If pre-prime Kawhi, Iggy gave him problems defending him imagine prime Pippen. The closest comp we have for this match up is Pippen vs. Hill and Pippen had a lot of success against Hill.



I'm not even sure if that's the closest comparison. Lebron is obviously better than Grant but he doesn't have Hills iso handles nor first step. I think Lebron would probably utilize more picks trying to get around Scottie than really breaking him down off the dribble. He'll get his numbers, but it would be a good matchup.

[Roundball_Rock]

True, there is no real comp for LeBron but Pippen, Hill come closest. People bring Magic up as well.

He would get numbers against anyone but the goal against a superstar is to hold his numbers down relative to his norm. That is what Kawhi, Iggy did (oh, forgot Marion--execute me for that!). Therefore, in theory, Pippen would do so as well.

Alas, it doesn't matter how LeBron does in a fictional match up. He needs to worry about the real match ups he will have against Kawhi and PG.

[Reggie43]

True, there is no real comp for LeBron but Pippen, Hill come closest. People bring Magic up as well.

He would get numbers against anyone but the goal against a superstar is to hold his numbers down relative to his norm. That is what Kawhi, Iggy did (oh, forgot Marion--execute me for that!). Therefore, in theory, Pippen would do so as well.

Alas, it doesn't matter how LeBron does in a fictional match up. He needs to worry about the real match ups he will have against Kawhi and PG.

If you dont worry about fictional matchups then why do you hate Jordan so much :oldlol:

[Roundball_Rock]

Maybe you can log onto your alt to answer these.

Well, you explain it: why are you so defensive/protective of MJ and such a Pippen hater (two players with almost no connection to the Pacers. Ewing does...)? Pippen was a random 90's superstar (that he was a superstar would not be disputed by anyone who was around then). His peers don't get this same hate. Pippen does, emanating from Jordan stan's insecurity (the same people who prop up all those said peers) after the fact as they get increasingly insecure as the years click by. It is both amusing and sad to see. They keep getting more extreme as the pressure from LeBron intensifies.

Speaking of hate, other than to MJ stans, the consensus is he is top 20-30 all-time. Odd for a "Pippen fan" to so he was easily replaceable. Also odd for you to claim Pippen had no real fans. You claim to be one yourself; you claim to have grown up by then. Yet you have no "memory" of Pippen being popular then?

[Axe]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcRjlGrZfmxzh2Mue6OfwkTnhnFLl6e HOO281Q&usqp=CAU
https://legacy.npr.org/assets/img/2016/10/19/monkey-rock.gif

[Reggie43]

Putting words into my mouth again, is this your only type of defense? When did I say Pippen had no real fans?

Only players I really hated was Kobe, Ben Wallace and those stupid laker role players acting like superstars for every made basket like devean george, fisher, horry,fox etc.

You do realize that they are people out there that appreciate players regardless if they are rivals or not? Is Ewing one of my faves?of course not but I do appreciate the skills, hardwork and sacrifices he did for his career.

[Reggie43]

If I really lied about liking Pippen why did I post a video of him as my fave mixtape ever? Surely a Miller stan would post a mixtape about Reggie when there are a ton of them out there.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?477890-What-are-your-favorite-NBA-mixtapes

Why would I even take him over Dirk?

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?350439-Scottie-Pippen-gt-Dirk

All posted before our interactions.

[Reggie43]

If I am an alt who do I even post alike? Atleast you gave out names to some of the posters you are paranoid about :lol

[Roundball_Rock]

When did I say Pippen had no real fans?

Implied--you claimed multiple times that Pippen fans here were "really" LeBron fans. Everything with you seems to boil down to MJ and LeBron. Pacers fan, right?


Only players I really hated

People can read your posts on Pippen. :lol


You do realize that they are people out there that appreciate players regardless if they are rivals or not? Is Ewing one of my faves?of course not but I do appreciate the skills, hardwork and sacrifices he did for his career.


Yes, there is one special fan base who praises every 90's superstar (even stars like Miller and Kemp) with one exception: the guy who happened to be Jordan's teammate. No Jordan connection whatsoever. :roll:

You conform with this agenda. Maybe you are a Pacers fan--but you can't explain why you conform with this agenda, which has no relevance to the Pacers. A Pacers fan would not feel a deep desire to defend Malone, Stockton, Ewing, Robinson, Jordan, Kemp, etc.--but magically that same feeling not only does not extend to Pippen--the opposite is the case: hit him each day as a fraud. It is called "Jordan hate" to question any of these other players (since everything is viewed through Jordan for his fans) but Pippen is not only fair game, he is the daily target. You replied to a Malone/Stockton thread talking about Jordan & how much Pippen sucked; you responded to a Miller/Smits thread talking about Jordan. All roads lead back to Jordan for this non-Jordan fan...

The Jordan agenda is obvious: elevate every single 90's player considered his "competition" (MJ stans fail to grasp the argument is about teams, not individuals) while denigrating his superstar teammate since the party line is MJ won all by himself. Odd to see a "Pacers fan" doing this...

[Reggie43]

Implied--you claimed multiple times that Pippen fans here were "really" LeBron fans. Everything with you seems to boil down to MJ and LeBron. Pacers fan, right?



People can read your posts on Pippen. :lol



Yes, there is one special fan base who praises every 90's superstar (even stars like Miller and Kemp) with one exception: the guy who happened to be Jordan's teammate. No Jordan connection whatsoever. :roll: You conform with this agenda. Maybe you are a Pacers fan--but you can't explain why you conform with this agenda, which has no relevance to the Pacers. A Pacers fan would not feel a deep desire to defend Malone, Stockton, Ewing, Robinson, Jordan, Kemp, etc.--but magically that same feeling not only does not extend to Pippen--the opposite is the case: hit him each day as a fraud. It is called "Jordan hate" to question any of these other players (since everything is viewed through Jordan for his fans) but Pippen is not only fair game, he is the daily target.

The Jordan agenda is obvious: elevate every single 90's player considered his "competition" (MJ stans fail to grasp the argument is about teams, not individuals) while denigrating his superstar teammate since the party line is MJ won all by himself. Odd to see a "Pacers fan" doing this...

The hypocrisy is strong in this one.

Implying that "you" are an agenda driven lebron stan doesnt mean all Pippen fans are the same. ****ing role players on that bulls team were popular, who would even think Pippen was not popular :lol

My only issue is you put Pippen on a pedestal that no one here does. You got triggered to the heavens when it is implied that some of his peers might be close to his impact and ability when almost no one gives a shit because they are all great players.

Imagine being accused of stanning Jordan when I supported every Finals team they faced :facepalm I cant even support the Jazz because It somehow elevates his competition :roll:

Imagine being a Jordan stan despite not even saying anything about him in our interactions :oldlol: How do you even know my thoughts about Jordan? Oh yeah I forgot I was talking to the most paranoid poster on ish where anyone who disagrees with your agenda is a jordan stan.

[Roundball_Rock]

Implying that "you" are an agenda driven lebron stan doesnt mean all Pippen fans are the same.

You did it in this thread. What is with your presumption that Pippen fans are all LeBron fans? You called us all closet Kobe fans for years; now it is LeBron fans. Oceania has always been at war with Eurasia. :lol


My only issue is you put Pippen on a pedestal that no one here does.

Your issue is you don't like the consensus on Pippen because it triggers insecurity of MJ stans. Pippen haters have to stop the faux reliance on the MJ echo chamber to bolster your outlier views. MJ stans keep saying "well, other Pippen haters agree with me!". That is why the delta between the consensus on Pippen and MJ stans keeps growing. You flock to every Pippen thread and in your circle jerk reinforce your views, causing them to get more extreme as time goes by. I doubt any Pippen hater would have him even top 50 all-time on ISH today (consensus top 20-30).


You got triggered to the heavens when it is implied that some of his peers might be close to his impact and ability

It is part of the Jordan agenda: bring Pippen down by saying he was equal or lesser than mere stars like Miller, Kemp. It is revisionist history. Fortunately, people see through the attempt to bring a consensus top 20-30 all-time player down.

The agenda is two-fold: prop up every player who played against MJ; diminish everyone who played with MJ. Pacers fan, doe!


Imagine being accused of stanning Jordan

You still can't answer...

Well, you explain it: why are you so defensive/protective of MJ and such a Pippen hater (two players with almost no connection to the Pacers. Ewing does...)? Pippen was a random 90's superstar (that he was a superstar would not be disputed by anyone who was around then). His peers don't get this same hate. Pippen does, emanating from Jordan stan's insecurity (the same people who prop up all those said peers) after the fact as they get increasingly insecure as the years click by. It is both amusing and sad to see. They keep getting more extreme as the pressure from LeBron intensifies.


Imagine being a Jordan stan despite not even saying anything about him in our interactions How do you even know my thoughts about Jordan?

You responded to a thread about Miller/Smits talking about Jordan; you did the same in a thread about Malone/Stockton. Your act is clear as day. :lol

[Reggie43]

You did it in this thread. What is with your presumption that Pippen fans are all LeBron fans? You called us all closet Kobe fans for years; now it is LeBron fans. Oceania has always been at war with Eurasia. :lol I called you a Kobe fan? you are even more paranoid than i thought.



Your issue is you don't like the consensus on Pippen because it triggers insecurity of MJ stans. Stop the faux reliance on the MJ echo chamber to bolster your outlier views. MJ stans keep saying "well, other Pippen haters agree with me!". That is why the delta between the consensus on Pippen and MJ stans keeps growing. You flock to every Pippen thread and in your circle jerk reinforce your views, causing them to get more extreme as time goes by. I dont like the consensus on Pippen? Which is that? Is it the part where he is known as a clear cut second option and his name became a derogatory word between first option superstars not wanting to play 2nd fiddle :oldlol:




It is part of the Jordan agenda: bring Pippen down by saying he was equal or lesser than mere stars like Miller, Kemp. It is revisionist history. Fortunately, people see through the attempt to bring a consensus top 20-30 all-time player down.

The agenda is two-fold: prop up every player who played against MJ; diminish everyone who played with MJ. Pacers fan, doe!

Quote me where I said Pippen was equal or lesser than Kemp and Miller.
Guess what you cant because you are a ****ing shitty liar and people can see through your walls of bullshit




You still can't answer...

Well, you explain it: why are you so defensive/protective of MJ and such a Pippen hater (two players with almost no connection to the Pacers. Ewing does...)? Pippen was a random 90's superstar (that he was a superstar would not be disputed by anyone who was around then). His peers don't get this same hate. Pippen does, emanating from Jordan stan's insecurity (the same people who prop up all those said peers) after the fact as they get increasingly insecure as the years click by. It is both amusing and sad to see. They keep getting more extreme as the pressure from LeBron intensifies.



You responded to a thread about Miller/Smits talking about Jordan; you did the same in a thread about Malone/Stockton. Your act is clear as day. :lol

You still dont get it do you? You think Pippen is some sort of irreplaceable legend, I dont :oldlol:

Agenda driven Miller/Smits Malone/Stockton threads that you yourself created to bring the players down are to be taken seriously :lol Are you really that stupid and delusional that you dont see the hypocrisy in your ways?

[Roundball_Rock]

I called you a Kobe fan?

I didn't mean "you" literally. :oldlol: How dumb are you?

Anyone who has been on ISH knows Pippen fans were for years called closet Kobe fans by "Pippen haters"/MJ stans; that seamlessly switched to LeBron as the threat shifted from Kobe to LeBron. Never is it contemplated that Pippen actually has fans of his own...


I dont like the consensus on Pippen? Which is that? Is it the part where he is known as a clear cut second option and his name became a derogatory word between first option superstars not wanting to play 2nd fiddle

This, ladies and gentleman, is someone who claims he likes Pippen. :lol


Quote me where I said Pippen was equal or lesser than Kemp and Miller.

What is your position on those players relative to each other? Thanks in advance.

Anyone who reads ISH knows what I am talking about. It has reached a parody point. Literally any all-NBA player whose name comes up is called equal or better than Pippen (depending on how extreme the Pippen hater is). It wasn't always this way, but LeBron has taken a toll on these fans.


You think Pippen is some sort of irreplaceable legend, I dont

Yes, I don't think top 20-30 all-time players grow on trees. A real Pacers fan would know this since that entire franchise has never had one player like that.


Agenda driven Miller/Smits Malone/Stockton threads that you yourself created to bring the players down are to be taken seriously

Per you, those threads are driven by Jordan. Jordan, Jordan, Jordan. Everything leads back to Jordan for this "Pacers fan." He still can't explain why.

Let's stipulate it is part of a grand agenda to bring Malone, Stockton down. So what? What is their connection to the Pacers? You have no problem bringing Jordan's teammate down but are defensive of all of Jordan's "rivals". Odd for a Pacers fan...

Historical figures are subject to scrutiny. Jordan stans want to exalt every 90's superstar except one. :lol The irony is the thread existed because of MJ stan's dishonest misrepresentations on playoff efficiency/declining, etc. People will keep applying MJ stan's criteria for Pippen to other players to expose the MJ stan disingenuousness. MJ stans can't bring themselves to apply their (faux) standards for Pippen to anyone else. It is amusing--and revealing--to see.

[Reggie43]

****ing retard thinks Pippen is some sort of irreplaceable legend :facepalm

[Roundball_Rock]

The "Pacers fan" getting emotional over a simple statement about a Bulls legend. :lol The Pacers have never had a player of that caliber in their entire history. The Bulls have had only two. Unless you are the Lakers or Celtics, yeah, having a top 20-30 caliber player is a big deal.

Of course, if you are a Pippen hater (no connection to MJ!) then sure, there are 45 guys who can replace him in his era alone. Pippen or Tyrone Hill? :lol

[Reggie43]

Finally got this shit out of you :lol

Imagine somebody thinking that Pippen is irreplaceable :roll:

[Roundball_Rock]

If a player is by consensus the 5th or 6th best player of his era, he will be very difficult to replace (especially since 1 of the players ahead of him was already on his team). Ask Indiana how hard it is to get those type of players if you see a Pacers fan.

[Reggie43]

Imagine seeing Pippen struggle against playoff pressure then get called "Irreplaceable" 20+ years later :roll:

How many here believe that only Olajuwon, Malone, Barkley, Robinson could have replaced Pippen on those Bulls in the 90s? Apparently anyone lower is going to have a hard time replacing Pippen :oldlol:

Young Shaq, Ewing, Drexler, Stockton etc. could have filled in that spot nicely but dont tell that to our resident "Pippen fan" unless you want to be bombarded with walls of copy paste bullshit :lol

[Axe]

Imagine seeing Pippen struggle against playoff pressure then get called "Irreplaceable" 20+ years later :roll:

How many here believe that only Olajuwon, Malone, Barkley, Robinson could have replaced Pippen on those Bulls in the 90s? Apparently anyone lower is going to have a hard time replacing Pippen :oldlol:

Young Shaq, Ewing, Drexler, Stockton etc. could have filled in that spot nicely but dont tell that to our resident "Pippen fan" unless you want to be bombarded with walls of copy paste bullshit :lol
The saga continues :roll:

[Roundball_Rock]

Yup, put any all-NBA player in there and the same exact results ensue according to Jordanian canon (oh sorry, "Pacers fan").

Stockton. :roll:

Yes, the Knicks would trade Ewing for Horace Grant and Stacey King. Jordanstan is a special place. :lol

Don't forget Reggie Miller and Kemp. Both>Pippen.

Imagine if MJ had a 25/7 player on his team, right? Except that happened...

The LeBron train is coming. Sorry, this won't help MJ.

[Vino24]

Imagine your 2nd option being better than LeBron. Nice luxury

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Imagine seeing Pippen struggle against playoff pressure then get called "Irreplaceable" 20+ years later :roll:

How many here believe that only Olajuwon, Malone, Barkley, Robinson could have replaced Pippen on those Bulls in the 90s? Apparently anyone lower is going to have a hard time replacing Pippen :oldlol:

Young Shaq, Ewing, Drexler, Stockton etc. could have filled in that spot nicely but dont tell that to our resident "Pippen fan" unless you want to be bombarded with walls of copy paste bullshit :lol

Careful :no:

Rockball can't login to his Rico2016 alt anymore. Expect rampant meltdowns :lol

[Reggie43]

Sadly putting words in my mouth would not help your credibility as you are already an exposed cherry picking liar which a lot of posters can attest to.

Imagine someone running out of ideas in an argument and they resort to copy pasting another person's posts (Kblaze) :facepalm

The Lebron train is coming? Im glad I finally exposed you as the Lebrontard you truly are :lol

[Reggie43]

Careful :no:

Rockball can't login to his Rico2016 alt anymore. Expect rampant meltdowns :lol

:roll:

[Roundball_Rock]

I don't need to cherry pick--facts and comparative data speak for themselves for my positions. :lol


Sadly putting words in my mouth

I didn't. I was quoting Jordanian canon. Try to keep up. I don't have a file of each MJ stan and the slight differences of each. Clear it up for me: how do you compare Pippen to Miller and to Kemp? You dodged this earlier...


The Lebron train is coming? Im glad I finally exposed you as the Lebrontard you truly are

Dumb as a rock. :oldlol: I am in it for the same reason I was rooting for Kobe: to see the ultimate meltdown of the worst fan base in sports if their precious MJ loses "GOAT" status. They are losing it as the pressure builds and MJ still is ahead at least 2:1 in GOAT. Imagine if it flips? :lol

KBlaze is intelligent. He will get quoted. He can formulate actual arguments and back them up. You simply melt down over a player you supposedly are not a fan of. :lol

[SATAN]

This is a terrible thread.

[Reggie43]

I don't need to cherry pick--facts and comparative data speak for themselves for my positions. :lol



I didn't. I was quoting Jordanian canon. Try to keep up. I don't have a file of each MJ stan and the slight differences of each. Clear it up for me: how do you compare Pippen to Miller and to Kemp? You dodged this earlier...



Dumb as a rock. :oldlol: I am in it for the same reason I was rooting for Kobe: to see the ultimate meltdown of the worst fan base in sports if their precious MJ loses "GOAT" status. They are losing it as the pressure builds and MJ still is ahead at least 2:1 in GOAT. Imagine if it flips? :lol

KBlaze is intelligent. He will get quoted. He can formulate actual arguments and back them up. You simply melt down over a player you supposedly are not a fan of. :lol

If you bothered to read and understand my posts I have already answered those which resulted in your meltdowns :oldlol: but I guess you are really running out of ideas so how about copy pasting kblaze's stuff again :roll:

[Roundball_Rock]

I can't be bothered--you aren't a serious poster. I don't even read most of your ranting. I read every word KBlaze or Dankok post, though (Fatal9, ShaqAttack were others in the same class).

[Reggie43]

I can't be bothered--you aren't a serious poster. I don't even read most of your ranting. I read every word KBlaze or Dankok post, though (Fatal9, ShaqAttack were others in the same class).

Quoting most of the things I say yet the self proclaimed "intelligent" poster apparently doesnt read my replies? You really love contradicting yourself dont you?

I think i have no reason to continue this because I already baited you into saying that Pippen is ****ing "irreplaceable" and you have already exposed yourself as a lebrontard anyways.

Your reply will probably consist of some bullshit I never said but ill let the other posters call you out for your retarded agenda from now on or atleast when I feel like exposing you again :oldlol:

[warriorfan]

I can't be bothered--you aren't a serious poster. I don't even read most of your ranting. I read every word KBlaze or Dankok post, though (Fatal9, ShaqAttack were others in the same class).

No one cares dipshit.

[light]

Imagine seeing Pippen struggle against playoff pressure then get called "Irreplaceable" 20+ years later :roll:

How many here believe that only Olajuwon, Malone, Barkley, Robinson could have replaced Pippen on those Bulls in the 90s? Apparently anyone lower is going to have a hard time replacing Pippen :oldlol:

Young Shaq, Ewing, Drexler, Stockton etc. could have filled in that spot nicely but dont tell that to our resident "Pippen fan" unless you want to be bombarded with walls of copy paste bullshit :lol

There's a problem here, though - in 1996 Pippen was considered by a lot of people to be better than Jordan (comeback MJ didn't seem quite like himself). That is absolutely true and a historical fact. And at the time the only players that could qualify to even suggest that they're better than Jordan were Pippen and Olajuwan. Maybe Robinson. Not Malone and definitely not Charles Barkley.

So for 1996 at least, no, not Stockton and not Drexler and not Ewing. Maybe Shaq, because he's Shaq, but he was lazy and in 1996 he wasn't ready.

So there is some truth to what he's saying, but that really only applies to the years of perhaps 1992 to 1997.

[Roundball_Rock]

There's a problem here, though - in 1996 Pippen was considered by a lot of people to be better than Jordan (comeback MJ didn't seem quite like himself). That is absolutely true and a historical fact. And at the time the only players that could qualify to even suggest that they're better than Jordan were Pippen and Olajuwan. Maybe Robinson. Not Malone and definitely not Charles Barkley.

So for 1996 at least, no, not Stockton and not Drexler and not Ewing. Maybe Shaq, because he's Shaq, but he was lazy and in 1996 he wasn't ready.

So there is some truth to what he's saying, but that really only applies to the years of perhaps 1992 to 1997.

Don't confuse a ranting and raving troll with nuance and facts (if you post quotes from 1996 from GM's, reporters, coaches, etc. he will call it "walls of BS" or "cherry picking"--he wasn't around to see what we saw and lacks the stability and capability to digest contrary information).

They don't get that you have to do it year-to-year. Drexler wasn't Drexler after 92'. Stockton could never score and his playoff limitations (and declines) were exposed year after year--choking so bad "Reggie43" melted down unable to defend it, thinking it was an affront to MJ (who he swears he isn't a fan of :lol ) to mention Malone/Stockton being chokers. Ewing could work--but the Knicks weren't going to give him up for anything a Pippen-less Bulls would have outside of MJ.

They just throw a bunch of names out there. My favorite is someone who said Payton. Payton wasn't even an all-star until 1994, when MJ was retired. Yet MJ was going to somehow win 6 with him!

What made Pippen perfect for MJ is his prime's timing was perfect for MJ's. He started his prime when MJ was hitting his peak then he continued in his prime while MJ exited his. MJ stans don't get this, though. They will compare duos whose primes barely overlapped--if at all (KAJ and Magic never did)--without grasping this piece of the puzzle.

Jordan won 6 rings with Pippen. It may have been less, may have been more depending on who you pair him with in the alternative universe. Who cares? Why are MJ stans so insecure? If he has 2 rings or 9 his case for GOAT remains the same. No other fan base plays this loony game but shaken MJ stans.

[Round Mound]

Lebron was better. That doesn't mean Pippen wasn't great himself.

[Roundball_Rock]

Lebron was better. That doesn't mean Pippen wasn't great himself.

:cheers:

[Axe]

Yeah, just because these delusional mj stans would rile you up so easily doesn't mean that you should be the biggest holier-than-thou asshole in this board...

[Kgisbigticket21]

Come on now. A top 5-10 vs a Top 30-50 player

[Axe]

^Don't tell me that's ya, 3ball.

[Roundball_Rock]

One of the many contradictions of "Pippen haters": on the one hand every superstar or even star who played against Jordan was awesome and better than Pippen (notice that you never see a word of criticism from "Pippen haters" towards these players--only towards Pippen and LeBron--while the Jordan opponents are universally lionized). Yet they were cheap asks. These super awesome players who all were vastly better than Pippen would be traded by their teams for peanuts to the Bulls (the best trade assets the Bulls would have without Pippen would be Horace Grant and BJ Armstrong--unless these MJ lovers are telling us the Bulls would be a lottery team sans Pippen :lol). Therefore, Pippen was easily replaceable.

Think of the level of stupidity we are talking about here. These other players are all better than Pippen--much better per Jordanian canon--yet they would command far less trade value than Pippen himself actually did. Yet evidently you could get prime Ewing for Grant and Armstrong. It's a shame no GM back then knew that or else any team outside of Houston and San Antonio would have traded for Ewing. So many gems that these people know years later that no one knew back then.