Why is Kareem's prime/peak underrated compared to those of other all-time greats?

[fpliii]

:confusedshrug:

[Legends66NBA7]

It's usually regarded Top 5-6 range. Not sure if that's really underrated.

Does he have a case for #1 overall peak ?

[moe94]

Happened in the 70s.

[mehyaM24]

wtf are you talking about?

[ArbitraryWater]

its not :confusedshrug:

Jordan 91-93, LeBron 12-14, Shaq 00-02 are simply better...

but he'd come right afterwards, somewhere top 5.

[fpliii]

It's usually regarded Top 5-6 range. Not sure if that's really underrated.

Does he have a case for #1 overall peak ?

wtf are you talking about?
People act like the sole (or primary) testament to Kareem's greatness is longevity (playing at an all-star level for a long time). If you watch the tape through 80 or 81, or look at the numbers, dude was ridiculous. Levels above a superstar.

I don't like ranking players, but you never hear guys mentioning Kareem's prime/peak when talking about him. The 85 Finals (which was a great series, but he wasn't the same player at his time) is treated as if it's his crowning achievement.

[Demitri98]

Because Kareem gets no love on this board. It's sad.

[Deuce Bigalow]

IDK but his '73 playoff performance has to be one of the worst ever.

His team finished with the #1 record in the Western Conference with a 60-22 record but lose in their first playoff series to the 47-35 Warriors.

Kareem averaged 23/16/3 on 43FG/45TS in the series (22.8 ppg on 23.0 fga), this coming of a 30/16/5 on 55FG/58TS regular season.

:biggums:

[fpliii]

IDK but his '73 playoff performance has to be one of the worst ever.

His team finished with the #1 record in the league with a 60-22 record but lose in their first playoff series to the 47-35 Warriors.

Kareem averaged 23/16/3 on 43FG/45TS in the series, this coming of a 30/16/5 on 55FG/58TS regular season.

:biggums:
Nate Thurmond doing work. :pimp:

I think there's also a chance Oscar might've been done at that point.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Nate Thurmond doing work. :pimp:

I think there's also a chance Oscar might've been done at that point.
Oscar had a great series though with 21/5/8 on 50FG/91FT.

[fpliii]

Oscar had a great series though with 21/5/8 on 50FG/91FT.
Damn, guess it was Nate then. Well here's SI's article on the series:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1087278/index.htm

KAJ didn't mention it much in his autobiography, here's all he said:


I went to work every day, became very fatalistic, and by the time the season ended I had effectively kept paranoia from taking control. The Bucks had played erratically all year, but we won our final fourteen games and finished tied with the Lakers for the lead in the Western Conference. We were all thinking unexpectedly of the championship, and then we got beaten by Golden State in the first round of the playoffs. Having concentrated my energy so fully the last three weeks, finally getting the murder and terror to subside, I was very disappointed. I wanted to keep playing; it was better than living at home.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=324389

[Deuce Bigalow]

Damn, guess it was Nate then. Well here's SI's article on the series:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1087278/index.htm

KAJ didn't mention it much in his autobiography, here's all he said:



http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=324389
Warriors started off the season 28-12 but finished off 19-23. Bucks finished off the year with 14 wins in a row. Looks like the Bucks overachieved and Warriors collapsed but got back to their elite form in the playoffs. Still though, Kareem got shut down that series individually. If a star performed like that in the modern era...

[SHAQisGOAT]

- Never flashy or flamboyant

- Happened in the 70's (and 1977 was his best year, so he wasn't champ)

- People think longevity was what he "was all about" plus many remember or only saw him at an older stage

...

Fact is that Kareem's peak is top 5 all-time, he was ridiculous :bowdown: Absolute beast on offense, overall, dpoy-level on defense, really impactful, top-notch IQ.. Go look at his 77 season, for example, what he did with the team he had, numbers he was putting up, centers he was facing, how he elevated in the post-season.. Crazy :eek:

[fpliii]

Fact is that Kareem's peak is top 5 all-time, he was ridiculous :bowdown: Absolute beast on offense, overall, dpoy-level on defense, really impactful, top-notch IQ.. Go look at his 77 season, for example, what he did with the team he had, numbers he was putting up, centers he was facing, how he elevated in the post-season.. Crazy :eek:
Question...in his book, he said this about his 76 season:

[QUOTE]The Lakers didn

[SexSymbol]

its not :confusedshrug:

Jordan 91-93, LeBron 12-14, Shaq 00-02 are simply better...

but he'd come right afterwards, somewhere top 5.
lol, stan'ism at it's best.

Kareem's peak was in the 70, imho, and that's the weakest era ever

[Psileas]

Καreem here isn't that underrated in general (not counting worthless trolls), although I'm not sure where ISHers rank specifically his prime and peak. Having said that, him being a center and having his best years in the 70's warrants lots of ignorance and lack of attention on the part of the fans.

Want to have a laugh? Ask people to list Kareem's 10 greatest games. :lol

[fpliii]

Καreem here isn't that underrated in general (not counting worthless trolls), although I'm not sure where ISHers rank specifically his prime and peak. Having said that, him being a center and having his best years in the 70's warrants lots of ignorance and lack of attention on the part of the fans.

Want to have a laugh? Ask people to list Kareem's 10 greatest games. :lol
Oh I agree, but the vast majority of his support comes from shallow arguments on the basis of "6 rings" (with no distinction drawn between his monster performances in 71 and 80 and his end-of-career championships in 87 and 88) and longevity arguments.

I would laugh at the latter, but I'd have some trouble listing them myself lol. I've been trying to learn a lot more about Kareem for a while. Reading his autobiography:

www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=324389

was useful, as is PHILA's research:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=301885

and watching as much tape as I can get my hands on.

[Flash31]

Kareem is severely underrated here and the media and mass majority,
and it's due to Kareem and the media having a very bad relationship.

Kareem with his resume has a case and could be argued as the GOAT over Jordan,Russell,Magic,Bird but due to his media relationship and the Jordan hype train it isn't discussed or praised.

6 Rings,6 MVPS,Most Points In NBA History,Unstoppable aside from Wilt Skyhook,20 yr career,Played good to great up to late late 30s and was winning,dominated in college

All the old timers aside from Bill,Magic,Larry are extremel overlooked and underrated

Bill couldnt be ignored due to 11 Rings and ALWAyS Winning,
11 rings in 14 Years is Impossible to ignore
Larry and Magic revitalized the NBA and the media loves them so theyll always be praised

Wilt is ignored all throughout the media probably due to being and having more records than anybody,so ESPN and media always use arbitrary stats to avoid having to mention him in comparison to others

Oscar---bad reputation with media like Kareem,and suffers from Wilt syndrome--has better stats than everybody else so ESPN,media avoid him

All the scoring,rebounding,assist,triple doubles,double doubles,highest fg%,
Fastest TO,All time records are basically held by the old timers
Wilt and Oscar in particular

[Psileas]

Oh I agree, but the vast majority of his support comes from shallow arguments on the basis of "6 rings" (with no distinction drawn between his monster performances in 71 and 80 and his end-of-career championships in 87 and 88) and longevity arguments.

Kareem is a proof that you can still be non-underrated and virtually obscure at the same time. Here, he's typically ranked at the #1-3 range, but this doesn't mean fans know a lot about him, just that they respect him quite a bit.


I would laugh at the latter, but I'd have some trouble listing them myself lol. I've been trying to learn a lot more about Kareem for a while. Reading his autobiography:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=324389

was useful, as is PHILA's research:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=301885

and watching as much tape as I can get my hands on.

Well, knowing that he has too many great games to find a good top-10 is a good first step. Like I said, Kareem may not be that underrated here, but I know there are fans who believe he didn't have enough great games to have a top-10. Same with Wilt in the playoffs, whose top-10 playoff games would still be the stuff of legend, yet he's seen here as some "secondary" level type of star come playoff time.
Next step is to actually care (not personally, generally speaking), the same way a young Jordan fan would care to know what "The Flu" game or the "Double Nickel" game was. Kareem didn't have the luxury of having his greatest games "named", so it takes more of a "nerd" to know about his

[Natureland]

His prime/peak years in the mid 70s to early 80s aren't filled with titles, I think that plays a role in him getting overlooked by some. fplii, I think you gave a quick year-by-year analysis of Kareem's team situation from that period and it usually wasn't good, so I don't really deduct that much from him whenever I do think about ranking people (which I care about less and less anyway).

Just a few years ago people were simply calling LeBron a "regular season player" and the usual "do it in the playoffs" posts were coming up. Hell they still do from some people. Same thing is happening to KD now. Modern Kareem probably would have faced the same criticisms.



Want to have a laugh? Ask people to list Kareem's 10 greatest games. :lol

I'm not going to list 10, but when I watched his 33/14/5/6blk performance against Philly to open the '80 Finals a few years ago I felt like I was watching the GOAT.

I ran through a lot of late 70s-early 80s Kareem a few years ago. I remember enjoying it a lot. I kinda wish CavsFTW would upload more Bucks Kareem on his YouTube for me to see (I know he has a game unlisted, maybe he has more).

[fpliii]

Kareem is a proof that you can still be non-underrated and virtually obscure at the same time. Here, he's typically ranked at the #1-3 range, but this doesn't mean fans know a lot about him, just that they respect him quite a bit.



Well, knowing that he has too many great games to find a good top-10 is a good first step. Like I said, Kareem may not be that underrated here, but I know there are fans who believe he didn't have enough great games to have a top-10. Same with Wilt in the playoffs, whose top-10 playoff games would still be the stuff of legend, yet he's seen here as some "secondary" level type of star come playoff time.
Next step is to actually care (not personally, generally speaking), the same way a young Jordan fan would care to know what "The Flu" game or the "Double Nickel" game was. Kareem didn't have the luxury of having his greatest games "named", so it takes more of a "nerd" to know about his
Good points, and great advice in bold.

[fpliii]

His prime/peak years in the mid 70s to early 80s aren't filled with titles, I think that plays a role in him getting overlooked by some. I think you gave a quick year-by-year analysis of Kareem's team situation from that period and it usually wasn't good, so I don't really deduct that much from him whenever I do think about ranking people (which I care about less and less anyway).

Just a few years ago people were simply calling LeBron a "regular season player" and the usual "do it in the playoffs" posts were coming up. Hell they still do from some people. Same thing is happening to KD now. Modern Kareem probably would have faced the same criticisms.



I'm not going to list 10, but when I watched his 33/14/5/6blk performance against Philly to open the '80 Finals a few years ago I felt like I was watching the GOAT.

I ran through a lot of late 70s-early 80s Kareem a few years ago. I remember enjoying it a lot. I kinda wish CavsFTW would upload more Bucks Kareem on his YouTube for me to see (I know he has a game unlisted, maybe he has more).
He did a tremendous job with the Wilt scoring skills video. I think he mentioned that he'd consider giving Bucks Kareem the same treatment when he has a chance. Would be a great watch for sure.

[Odinn]

It's usually regarded Top 5-6 range. Not sure if that's really underrated.

Does he have a case for #1 overall peak ?
It is kinda accurate but lacks perspective.

1966-67 Chamberlain
1979-80 Abdul-Jabbar
1985-86 Bird
1990-91 Jordan
1993-94 Olajuwon
1999-00 O'Neal

These are the only ones that have legitimate case for the greatest peak ever. That 5-6 range isn't far from each other. If the best one is 100 out 100, the 6th one is 99 at worst.

[dankok8]

IDK but his '73 playoff performance has to be one of the worst ever.

His team finished with the #1 record in the Western Conference with a 60-22 record but lose in their first playoff series to the 47-35 Warriors.

Kareem averaged 23/16/3 on 43FG/45TS in the series (22.8 ppg on 23.0 fga), this coming of a 30/16/5 on 55FG/58TS regular season.

:biggums:

Bob Dandridge was hurt in that series. But yea Kareem played bad. Still it's one series...

I think the reason his prime is underrated is that it lasted longer than most so it's hard to choose one peak year and second the 70's were not a well publicized era.

Kareem had a GOAT-level peak though that can go up against anyone.

[Black Mamba's B]

Kareem is severely underrated here and the media and mass majority,
and it's due to Kareem and the media having a very bad relationship.

Kareem with his resume has a case and could be argued as the GOAT over Jordan,Russell,Magic,Bird but due to his media relationship and the Jordan hype train it isn't discussed or praised.

6 Rings,6 MVPS,Most Points In NBA History,Unstoppable aside from Wilt Skyhook,20 yr career,Played good to great up to late late 30s and was winning,dominated in college

All the old timers aside from Bill,Magic,Larry are extremel overlooked and underrated

Bill couldnt be ignored due to 11 Rings and ALWAyS Winning,
11 rings in 14 Years is Impossible to ignore
Larry and Magic revitalized the NBA and the media loves them so theyll always be praised

Wilt is ignored all throughout the media probably due to being and having more records than anybody,so ESPN and media always use arbitrary stats to avoid having to mention him in comparison to others

Oscar---bad reputation with media like Kareem,and suffers from Wilt syndrome--has better stats than everybody else so ESPN,media avoid him

All the scoring,rebounding,assist,triple doubles,double doubles,highest fg%,
Fastest TO,All time records are basically held by the old timers
Wilt and Oscar in particular

This. Happens in boxing especially, as it does in other sports I'm sure

[LAZERUSS]

Kareem, from his rookie post-season, thru the entire '71 regular season and playoffs, and then thru the '72 regular season, was as dominant as anyone who has ever played the game. In the rest of his career he was outstanding thru '80, but never at the sustained level that he had for that two-year period. The numbers don't lie. He was at his scoring peak, his rebounding peak, and even his FG% efficiency peak (as compared to league average...his '71 season FG% of .577 against a league average of .449, or a .128 differential, was the highest of his career.) On top of that, just look at the Bucks team defensive stats from '71 thru '74. An incredible four straight years as the most suffocating defense in the league.

[Artillery]

Happened in the 70s.

Pretty much. Played in a weak era.

[Round Mound]

lol, stan'ism at it's best.

Kareem's peak was in the 70, imho, and that's the weakest era ever

Certainly Not For Centers :no: (today, is the worst ever for centers)