Starting a team: KG or Kobe?

[Railgun]

Some say KG is on the level of Duncan, maybe even better. Who would you start a team with?

[Milbuck]

You're obsessed.

[RightToCensor]

Dwight

[Le Shaqtus]

If I didn't know how their careers played out I would always choose the big

[selrahc]

definitely kobe. kobe could carry a team by himself, but kg needed ray allen and paul pierce to win a championship.

[kennethgriffin]

well kobe is alpha and kg is beta... mentality is everything


kg had all the talent in the world. but hes the 2nd or 3rd guy you fill out a championship team with

kobe was the main piece for 2 of them and the alpha dog when it mattered most for another 3 titles

KG hates pressure .. kobe eats it up

[red1]

definitely kg. he could carry a team while kobe needed shaq/gasol in order to win anything

[Akrazotile]

I would take KG, unless you give me Horry, Fisher, Ariza, and Gasol to go with Bryant to clean up his constant late game choking.

[IncarceratedBob]

definitely kg. he could carry a team while kobe needed shaq/gasol in order to win anything
KG could carry a team yet Kobe who won twice as the best player couldn't?

[J Shuttlesworth]

Probably Kobe due to the popularity it would bring the organization

[red1]

KG could carry a team yet Kobe who won twice as the best player couldn't?
correct

[Akrazotile]

KG could carry a team yet Kobe who won twice as the best player couldn't?

:roll:


Just like he was "MVP" in 09.



Dont confuse popularity-based designations as facts mayne.

Kobe was never the most important player on a championship team. He nearly shot his team out of every playoff series, look how many role players became iconic just by bailing him out.

[STATUTORY]

definitely kg. he could carry a team while kobe needed shaq/gasol in order to win anything
KG who needed pierce and rondo and ray allen to win one ring could carry a team?

:roll: :roll:
step ur troll game up red1

[HOoopCityJones]

:roll:

What was The Grizzles record before we traded for Gasol and what was The Lakers record before he came?

[Akrazotile]

What was The Grizzles record before we traded for Gasol and what was The Lakers record before he came?


I totally admit that once Fisher came back to lead the Lakers they were imediately better than the Kobe led teams of the previous three years. Still tho, in the playoffs Gasol was a more important performer than Fisher, and Odom. And then after them Kobe.

[AnaheimLakers24]

kobe bryant

[avonbarksdale]

LOL kg has 0fvmp...

[MMM]

Give me KG all day. His impact was top 3 in his Generation. Shame that his prime/peak was on terrible teams. Also lets not pretend that Kobe didn't have have similar outcomes to KG when faced with a similar cast in his peak years.

[FatComputerNerd]

KG

Not to take anything away from Kobe, but it's easier to build a team around an elite big with good D than a ball dominant 2-guard, regardless of how great he is/was.

[HOoopCityJones]

I totally admit that once Fisher came back to lead the Lakers they were imediately better than the Kobe led teams of the previous three years. Still tho, in the playoffs Gasol was a more important performer than Fisher, and Odom. And then after them Kobe.

I have to laugh at one of the worst attempts to troll Ive ever read..:lol

But you went full retard on this one.

This has to be a Jameer alt.

[ImKobe]

I don't think it really matters, because neither of them won any rings without help. KG achieved just as much in Minnesota as Kobe did from 05-08.

If I were to start a franchise & I cared about making money & putting butts into seats, Kobe is the obvious choice. He is a superstar, the most popular guy in his own time.

KG, as a player, is easier to build around, but he never proved that he could actually win a title as a #1 option. Kobe spanked his teams in the Playoffs. KG needed 2 HOFs(one of which is the greatest 3PT shooter of all-time) + one of the best PGs of our era to ring once against the inexperienced, undermanned 2008 Lakers.

Kobe.

[zoom17]

KG after all Kobe needed talented bigs to win rings.

[secund2nun]

KG was a far superior player than Mr. First round loser in prime so KG is the easy choice.

[HOoopCityJones]

KG after all Kobe needed talented bigs to win rings.

Cause KG never needed three HoF wings. :lol

So people really only watch who Kobe plays with and then act blind def and dumb when it comes to anyone else? Hmm.

[secund2nun]

KG after all Kobe needed talented bigs to win rings.

Yep he couldn't even get better than a 7th seed and a first round loss without an elite front court on his team.

[Dragonyeuw]

If both were available in the same draft as 18 year olds, you'd take KG 10/10 times. Alot of the answers here are based on knowing how each player turned out. I don't think anyone knew in 96 that Kobe would become 'the' Kobe we would come to see the past 15 years, just as no-one predicted that MJ would be 'the' MJ we saw, hence Sam Bowie being picked over him. Conventional basketball logic is to always take the talented big first as they're more a commodity, easier to build around. The list of perimeter players who proved dominant enough to be the foundation for a dynasty is very short.

[Cold soul]

Kobe.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

KG could carry a team yet Kobe who won twice as the best player couldn't?
Kobe never won as the best player.
every knowledgeable basketball addict knows that gasol was the best player on those teams:applause: :applause:

[HOoopCityJones]

You guys implement some of the strangest criteria when it comes to Kobe, so we shouldn't consider how either of their careers played out and should just live in a fantasy land where KG's had more success than Kobe.?


Ok let's play that game.


It's like me saying , Hakeem would of won his two rings whether Jordan was semi retired or not, so therefore Hakeem > Jordan.

Yea, if Jordan didn't become the player he is , Hakeem would be better than him all time.

Oh, also put any other Dominant wing in history, like Kobe, Iverson, Jerry West , TMac , Dwade on those 90's Bulls squads and they'd have as many rings if not more than MJ.

[FatComputerNerd]

If both were available in the same draft as 18 year olds, you'd take KG 10/10 times. Alot of the answers here are based on knowing how each player turned out. I don't think anyone knew in 96 that Kobe would become 'the' Kobe we would come to see the past 15 years, just as no-one predicted that MJ would be 'the' MJ we saw, hence Sam Bowie being picked over him. Conventional basketball logic is to always take the talented big first as they're more a commodity, easier to build around. The list of perimeter players who proved dominant enough to be the foundation for a dynasty is very short.

+1

Heck, the Cavs drafted Vitaly Potapenko over Kobe (and Nash).

Kobe also came off the bench his first few seasons behind Eddie Jones. No-one knew how good he would become.

[SexSymbol]

Every single GM in the NBA would choose Kobe. Just because of the potential in money-making.

[zoom17]

Cause KG never needed three HoF wings. :lol

So people really only watch who Kobe plays with and then act blind def and dumb when it comes to anyone else? Hmm.

It's my opinion no need to get so butthurt about it kobe stans are the most sensitive on this site.

[IncarceratedBob]

Kobe never won as the best player.
every knowledgeable basketball addict knows that gasol was the best player on those teams:applause: :applause:
Well then Kobe won 5 times as the 2nd best player, KG won 1 time as the 2nd best player.

[ImKobe]

Kobe never won as the best player.
every knowledgeable basketball addict knows that gasol was the best player on those teams:applause: :applause:

2009 & 2010 Finals MVP, only player since MJ in 91 to average 30+ ppg 5+ rpg 7+ apg in a Finals series, only player to score 600+ points in 3 consecutive Playff runs, one of the most efficient Playoff series all-time for any wing in the 2009 & 2010 WCF. The undisputed leader & the face of the Lakers since Shaq was traded. Piss off.

[fpliii]

Give me both TBH. Shaq's my favorite player all-time, but his relationship with Kobe was toxic. Pair Kobe/KG together and they probably 7-8 peat.

[CJ Mustard]

Gotta go with KG. Guaranteed contender for years if you have a semi-competent front office.

[Bandito]

Give me both TBH. Shaq's my favorite player all-time, but his relationship with Kobe was toxic. Pair Kobe/KG together and they probably 7-8 peat.
Kobe with KG in his prime would be marvelous as Kevin is a hard worker as Kobe is.

[Dragonyeuw]

Every single GM in the NBA would choose Kobe. Just because of the potential in money-making.

This is based on what you know of Kobe now, there was no way in 1996 to know what kind of money-making potential an 18 Kobe would have.

[aboss4real24]

Lets see

A Chucker who quits in game 7s or plays terribly

Or a big Man who is 1 of the best defenders ever,One of the best mid range shooters ever, one of the best post players ever

and 1 of The most intense leaders in sports history ?????

Yea ik which 1 i want LOL

Na im jus joking

iLL Take Kobe.....

[kobeef24]

I don't get the argument that Kobe needed elite bigs. KG didn't need elite wing players? :confusedshrug:

[k0kakw0rld]

Some say KG is on the level of Duncan, maybe even better. Who would you start a team with?
KG is no where near TD's level. :biggums:

[fpliii]

KG is no where near TD's level. :biggums:
:biggums:

[dajadeed]

Kobe with KG in his prime would be marvelous as Kevin is a hard worker as Kobe is.

If you remember the early 2000s all-star games, KG and Kobe had an unstoppable 2 man game when they did it every once in a while.

I have long said that KG/Kobe would have been the perfect pairing. They would have gotten along and I think 7-8 titles would not have been out of the question.

It has long been my dream pairing.

[Derka]

If I'm putting myself in the shoes of a scout when they were drafted...before they both became Top 50 All-Time players? KG without question. Always go with size.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

KG is no where near TD's level. :biggums:
:biggums: :biggums:
only nikkas who werent watchin ball from 99-09 would say that:biggums: :biggums:

[fpliii]

:biggums: :biggums:
only nikkas who werent watchin ball from 99-09 would say that:biggums: :biggums:
:applause:

:cheers:

[HOoopCityJones]

"Happy Mother's Day Motha****ka!" - KG just as Tmmy shoots a FT...

[Harison]

Every single GM in the NBA would choose Kobe. Just because of the potential in money-making.

Do you know why KG is called The Big Ticket? Look it up.

While both are fantastic players, I honestly dont think any GM would choose superstar guard over superstar big, not even Lakers GM, not even if he knew how they turn out.

Its easier to build around two-way superstar bigs, plus in this scenario you get loyalty, great chemistry and All-time great defense if team is solid. Lets say Lakers get KG instead of Kobe, how many rings LA would get? No ego clashes with Shaq, total frontcourt dominance, over/under 10 rings? :oldlol:

[Artillery]

KG. Too much needs to happen to win a ring with Kobe. You need:



a big market franchise willing to spend a 100 million every year to stay competitive and attract big name free agents

You need the GOAT coach PJax. Kobe's failed under Del Harris, Kurt Rambis, Hamblen, Rudy T, Mike Brown, and recently D'Antoni. Kobe's a bit of one-trick pony and doesn't understand how to adapt his game to suit other playing styles. He needs the triangle in order to be effective. A system player.

A stacked frontcourt. Big men are't cheap. In order to win with Bryant, you need to assemble the best frontcourt in the NBA. Shaq for the threepeat. Gasol/Odom/Bynum for the two-peat. This is possible in LA - a franchise that has the clout to attract any big name they want. Good luck attempting this with a small market team.

Good luck trying to convince Bryant to play for your team in the first place. Drafted by Charlotte - refused to play for them. Expect the same to happen to any other small market team that has Kobe on the roster.

[Nashty]

Is this a joke:eek: I would take Derek Fisher before Overratedbe.

[Dro]

Every single GM in the NBA would choose Kobe. Just because of the potential in money-making.
No...Just no...

[moe94]

KG is no where near TD's level. :biggums:

:rolleyes:

[9erempiree]

I would never start a team with KG. Even if it was KG versus another player.

KG was a known choker and the original "pass the ball in crunch time" player. If you guys think Lebron is bad. KG was the original. So many times Minny were knocked out because of inability to takeover.

ISH is really known for idiots. Even in hindsight you fools have the nerve to take KG. KG can't win until he joined the Celtics. :facepalm

[moe94]

ISH is really known for idiots. Even in hindsight you fools have the nerve to take KG. KG can't win until he joined the Celtics. :facepalm

Look at the rosters he was dealing with, genius. Are you actually retarded?

[MMM]

I don't get the argument that Kobe needed elite bigs. KG didn't need elite wing players? :confusedshrug:

Kobe won 3 rings playing next to a top 10 player of all time

Paul Pierce and Allen were on the back end of their primes when KG won while he was also in the back end of his prime. if 08 KG can win a ring 3-4 years removed from his peak than I think there is a chance he would have had multiple rings if he had a competent front office in Minny.

The difference in accolades between the players is one played for the greatest front office while the other played for a front office that lost 5 first round picks for Joe Smith.

[9erempiree]

Look at the rosters he was dealing with, genius. Are you actually retarded?

You are the retarded one.

Suddenly a team is full of scrubs when they finished 1st in their division.

:facepalm

[moe94]

You are the retarded one.

Suddenly a team is full of scrubs when they finished 1st in their division.

:facepalm

Who were KG's best teammates prior to Boston? Go ahead. Name the two best players. :oldlol:

[BlackVVaves]

Probably KG. Transcendent and elite bigs that are premier defenders and efficient scorers simply have more of an impact on a basketball game than perimeter plays. It's inherent; look at most people's Top 20 All Time lists, and count how many are power forwards or centers. I bet the ratio is 3:1.

[Anaximandro1]

KG is better than Kobe (1997 - 2004). However, the rules changes boost Kobe value.

So, I think the answer depends on the rules. Nowadays, Kobe would be more valuable.


KG is no where near TD's level
It should have been the first answer.

Duncan dominates the low post, is a great offensive rebounder, puts big men into constant foul trouble, draw double teams, creates open shots for his teammates.

Duncan is a much better offensive player than Garnett. This is easily demonstrable. On top of that, Duncan has a better defensive rating.

Both Duncan and Garnett have the same usage rate and playing time, so advanced stats work pretty well.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Y2oFtcxi5C4/UzgWt5gobDI/AAAAAAAACs0/16LeU9dJu_w/s1600/9.jpg




The Spurs lack firepower (1999 - 2004). Spurs' dependence on Duncan increases dramatically in the advanced stages of the playoffs.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-dxl_nCGm-hw/Uzgb3HhkPTI/AAAAAAAACtI/vaTZ3BzETV4/s1600/11.jpg


Garnett is a bad fit for the Spurs. KG would have been successful with the Blazers and the Kings. Those teams are the right fit for him.

Blazers


PG Stoudamire
SG Steve Smith
SF Pippen
PF Garnett
C Sabonis

Kings


PG Bibby
SG Christie
SF Stojakovic
PF Garnett
C Divac

[DMAVS41]

Tough because we just don't know how KG would play on loaded teams like Kobe had...and don't know how Kobe would play on average teams like KG had.

I'm going with Kobe though. He has a skill set that allows you to run a championship level offensive through him.

I just think that is more valuable than what KG ultimately brings...even with his all time great defense.

Tough call though...KG is a player that might have won more playing with the kind of help Kobe had throughout his career than Kobe ultimately won with, but I'm not sure that makes him a better player.

Really tough call...KG probably remains the biggest "what if" of the last 25 years.

[JohnFreeman]

Wouldn't Kobe be riding the bench the first couple of years? If they are following their same career path?

[Quickening]

KG. Too much needs to happen to win a ring with Kobe. You need:



a big market franchise willing to spend a 100 million every year to stay competitive and attract big name free agents

You need the GOAT coach PJax. Kobe's failed under Del Harris, Kurt Rambis, Hamblen, Rudy T, Mike Brown, and recently D'Antoni. Kobe's a bit of one-trick pony and doesn't understand how to adapt his game to suit other playing styles. He needs the triangle in order to be effective. A system player.

A stacked frontcourt. Big men are't cheap. In order to win with Bryant, you need to assemble the best frontcourt in the NBA. Shaq for the threepeat. Gasol/Odom/Bynum for the two-peat. This is possible in LA - a franchise that has the clout to attract any big name they want. Good luck attempting this with a small market team.

Good luck trying to convince Bryant to play for your team in the first place. Drafted by Charlotte - refused to play for them. Expect the same to happen to any other small market team that has Kobe on the roster.

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[JohnFreeman]

KG. Too much needs to happen to win a ring with Kobe. You need:



a big market franchise willing to spend a 100 million every year to stay competitive and attract big name free agents

You need the GOAT coach PJax. Kobe's failed under Del Harris, Kurt Rambis, Hamblen, Rudy T, Mike Brown, and recently D'Antoni. Kobe's a bit of one-trick pony and doesn't understand how to adapt his game to suit other playing styles. He needs the triangle in order to be effective. A system player.

A stacked frontcourt. Big men are't cheap. In order to win with Bryant, you need to assemble the best frontcourt in the NBA. Shaq for the threepeat. Gasol/Odom/Bynum for the two-peat. This is possible in LA - a franchise that has the clout to attract any big name they want. Good luck attempting this with a small market team.

Good luck trying to convince Bryant to play for your team in the first place. Drafted by Charlotte - refused to play for them. Expect the same to happen to any other small market team that has Kobe on the roster.
http://www.notorious-rob.com/wp-content/files/2014/03/Damn.gif

[Doctor Rivers]

:applause: :applause: :applause:


http://www.notorious-rob.com/wp-content/files/2014/03/Damn.gif

i admire your alt switching skills. please teach me.

[ZMonkey11]

Why do Kobe stans think it's so hard to believe you'd take a stone cold stunner big man over a wing player?

Oden was drafted over Durant.

Jordan was drafted after Bowie and Olajuwon.

Fact is, when you build up a franchise, you want a big man first. Period.

And Kobe might be the better player, but KG is the better teammate. He takes care of unselfish acts you don't always see from superstars.

You can make an argument for either, but to pick KG is not trolling at all.

I'd take KG.

[ROCSteady]

I would take KG, unless you give me Horry, Fisher, Ariza, and Gasol to go with Bryant to clean up his constant late game choking.

Yup good role players to multiple title runs.

Maybe one day the Clippers can add their VERY OWN Championship banner to Staples Center! Wouldn't that be exciting?!

Aw it'd be like seeing a toddler's baby Nikes placed adjacent to his Pops extensive shoe collection lineup. So cute

[ArbitraryWater]

Is this a joke:eek: I would take Derek Fisher before Overratedbe.

:lol You're back! Yay

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

KG for sure - but again, I'm confused by people thinking he won his title with "less". The 2008 Boston Celtics were as stacked as any in the 2000's.

:confusedshrug:

[ArbitraryWater]

Who were KG's best teammates prior to Boston? Go ahead. Name the two best players. :oldlol:

Cassell and Sprewell :bowdown:

[houston]

kobe for sure

[russwest0]

http://www.bobos.it/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/puppet_t1.jpg

[fpliii]

KG. Not an indictment on my main man Kobe, you just gotta go with bigs over smalls if the comparison is close otherwise.

[riseagainst]

I totally admit that once Fisher came back to lead the Lakers they were imediately better than the Kobe led teams of the previous three years. Still tho, in the playoffs Gasol was a more important performer than Fisher, and Odom. And then after them Kobe.

reported for epic stupidity.

[Bandito]

KG. Too much needs to happen to win a ring with Kobe. You need:



a big market franchise willing to spend a 100 million every year to stay competitive and attract big name free agents

You need the GOAT coach PJax. Kobe's failed under Del Harris, Kurt Rambis, Hamblen, Rudy T, Mike Brown, and recently D'Antoni. Kobe's a bit of one-trick pony and doesn't understand how to adapt his game to suit other playing styles. He needs the triangle in order to be effective. A system player.

A stacked frontcourt. Big men are't cheap. In order to win with Bryant, you need to assemble the best frontcourt in the NBA. Shaq for the threepeat. Gasol/Odom/Bynum for the two-peat. This is possible in LA - a franchise that has the clout to attract any big name they want. Good luck attempting this with a small market team.

Good luck trying to convince Bryant to play for your team in the first place. Drafted by Charlotte - refused to play for them. Expect the same to happen to any other small market team that has Kobe on the roster.

Your forgot this point: fggts to hate on him 24/7:lol

[Mr. Jabbar]

lol

[20Four]

http://www.bobos.it/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/puppet_t1.jpg
:bowdown: :bowdown:

[Fire Colangelo]

Give me the guy who won as the first option of his team. Not a knock on Garnett, I just don't think you can run a championship offense through him.

[bballnoob1192]

if you are on draft night of course you take KG, but the real question is would you trade kobe for KG/vice versa

[MMM]

Give me the guy who won as the first option of his team. Not a knock on Garnett, I just don't think you can run a championship offense through him.

Pierce was the first option but KG was the best player on either side of the court. He did lead the Celtics in scoring throughout the first 3 rounds and in the Finals wasn't far off from Ray and Pierces averages. Also remember that KG was a few years removed from his peak by 07-08 you could start to see a lot of wear and tear in his game.

[tpols]

Knowing how both their careers turned out, you wouldnt be wrong taking either. If its a go back in time and take a guess type thing you take KG.

[9erempiree]

I am assuming this argument is who would you pick in hindsight because if we don't know how their career paths would go, then people would pick KG. This wouldn't even be much of an argument or discussion since people would say Bowie over Michael Jordan because he is a big too.

[Fire Colangelo]

Pierce was the first option but KG was the best player on either side of the court. He did lead the Celtics in scoring throughout the first 3 rounds and in the Finals wasn't far off from Ray and Pierces averages. Also remember that KG was a few years removed from his peak by 07-08 you could start to see a lot of wear and tear in his game.

He was the best player on that championship no doubt, but I feel that in his prime he doesn't take over games consistently enough with his offense like Kobe could. He was in the perfect situation in Boston because he had other options that could create for themselves in the clutch with Ray and Pierce.

Idk tho, I'm a firm believer that Celtics would've repeated in 09 if KG didn't get injured. But that's just a what if, fact is Kobe won two championships as the best player on a team while KG only one.

I guess another reason id take Kobe over kg is the fact that he puts more sears in the building.

[Black Mamba's B]

Nick Anderson