MJ was a better help defender than Pippen

[fpliii]

I've rewatched a lot of tape recently, and this is how I presently feel.

Scottie still seems to be the better man defender (at least against certain types of players), but as I rewatch more I might change my mind.

[IncarceratedBob]

Thanks for this

[DuMa]

only in the first years and the first 3peat, MJ was the better help and man defender.

the 2nd 3peat, MJ was still better man to man but Pip took over the defensive anchor position and became the help defender that he is. capable of defending 1-4 positions. his rotations were always pinpoint

[livinglegend]

I've rewatched a lot of tape recently, and this is how I presently feel.

Scottie still seems to be the better man defender (at least against certain types of players), but as I rewatch more I might change my mind.

Make a thread when your mind is set

[navy]

MJ didnt deserve DPOY with Pippen on his team. That much I can say.

[fpliii]

Make a thread when your mind is set
I will (on man D), but this thread is on help defense.

[russwest0]

People have tracked games to show that MJ guarded the other teams best perimiter player more than anyone else in his team, even Scottie. Truly the GOAT. :bowdown:

[SpecialQue]

I've rewatched a lot of tape recently, and this is how I presently feel.

Scottie still seems to be the better man defender (at least against certain types of players), but as I rewatch more I might change my mind.

:coleman:

[fpliii]

People have tracked games to show that MJ guarded the other teams best perimiter player more than anyone else in his team, even Scottie. Truly the GOAT. :bowdown:
Well, Scottie was better manning up some guys. For instance, in the 91 Finals, even though Magic was great against everybody (except Grant in limited possessions), Pippen did a better job on him than MJ did:

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1261129

[aj1987]

Dude was an absolute BEAST on the defensive end. We tend to talk about Kobe's defensive prowess, but MJ is KB's peak version on steroids and even more, on the defensive end.

[Jlamb47]

Dude was an absolute BEAST on the defensive end. We tend to talk about Kobe's defensive prowess, but MJ is KB's peak version on steroids and even more, on the defensive end.

Kobe younger days was a beast perimeter defender, dude could block steal and stay in front of his man but first 3peat MJ was a beast himself. Very quick on his feet to stay in front of man, he did gamble at times but he was pretty darn good at it

[PHILA]

For what it's worth, Kevin Johnson has said that Jordan's defense was more devastating to the opposition than "anything he could do offensively". This would also give credence to the belief of Bill Russell as the GOAT.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaAwAAXF0po



Sports Illustrated - May 21, 1990

Moreover, Jordan played excellent defense on Philly's Hersey Hawkins in the fourth period. It wasn't so much that Hawkins scored only two points in the final 12 minutes, it was more that Jordan wouldn't even let him touch the ball. The least recognized part of Jordan's game is his ability to slip picks and suddenly pop up in the passing lane, like a kid who finds a shortcut to the candy store. "Nobody has ever been better at the end of a game than Michael," said Bulls coach Phil Jackson afterward. " Oscar Robertson was great, but this guy is a closer at both ends."

[fpliii]

For what it's worth, Kevin Johnson has said that Jordan's defense was more devastating to the opposition than "anything he could do offensively". This would also give credence to the belief of Bill Russell as the GOAT.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaAwAAXF0po



Sports Illustrated - May 21, 1990

Moreover, Jordan played excellent defense on Philly's Hersey Hawkins in the fourth period. It wasn't so much that Hawkins scored only two points in the final 12 minutes, it was more that Jordan wouldn't even let him touch the ball. The least recognized part of Jordan's game is his ability to slip picks and suddenly pop up in the passing lane, like a kid who finds a shortcut to the candy store. "Nobody has ever been better at the end of a game than Michael," said Bulls coach Phil Jackson afterward. " Oscar Robertson was great, but this guy is a closer at both ends."
:applause:

[Rose'sACL]

Kobe younger days was a beast perimeter defender, dude could block steal and stay in front of his man but first 3peat MJ was a beast himself. Very quick on his feet to stay in front of man, he did gamble at times but he was pretty darn good at it
why is every okc fan a lakers fan too ? did okc support lakers before thunder moved there? I am not making fun of you. just curious.

[Sarcastic]

MJ didnt deserve DPOY with Pippen on his team. That much I can say.


Why not? Pippen played 20 minutes per game, and was a rookie in 1988. Jordan was an elite defender even before Pippen got there.

[swagga]

I've rewatched a lot of tape recently, and this is how I presently feel.

Scottie still seems to be the better man defender (at least against certain types of players), but as I rewatch more I might change my mind.

how about mentioning pippen got the heavy assignments to let mj relax for o and enabling him to roam.
how about mentioning that pippen was much better at switching on people and keeping the defense intact while still covering PFs decently... isn't that help D?

@defense overall
how about pippen or harper getting the real assignments? How about magic in 1991 when he drilled MJ ass something special? How about MJ's special rules where he was allowed to hack howere he wanted and STILL his best defensive season is worse than paul fcuking george's. Pippen absolutely trumps all non-bigs.

How about all the freaking statistical data saying otherwise from regular season to post-season:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/dws_season.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/dws_season_p.html
how about saying that pippen's defensive rating was ALWAYS better than jordan's. Career wise, regular season wise, playoffs you name it.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html

Could add more but it's probably in vain. pretentious poster as usual, no facts just feels. Kobe stan prolly, you prolly think kobe is/was a great defender :lol

[swagga]

not implying jordan is not a good defender, but he is overrated given his special treatment. Just like lebron a year ago where he went without a foul for god knows many games, that shiit just don't happen irl.

[juju151111]

I've rewatched a lot of tape recently, and this is how I presently feel.

Scottie still seems to be the better man defender (at least against certain types of players), but as I rewatch more I might change my mind.
What games were you watching to come to this conclusion. What years?

[fpliii]

how about mentioning pippen got the heavy assignments to let mj relax for o and enabling him to roam.
how about mentioning that pippen was much better at switching on people and keeping the defense intact while still covering PFs decently... isn't that help D?

@defense overall
how about pippen or harper getting the real assignments? How about magic in 1991 when he drilled MJ ass something special? How about MJ's special rules where he was allowed to hack howere he wanted and STILL his best defensive season is worse than paul fcuking george's. Pippen absolutely trumps all non-bigs.

How about all the freaking statistical data saying otherwise from regular season to post-season:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/dws_season.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/dws_season_p.html
how about saying that pippen's defensive rating was ALWAYS better than jordan's. Career wise, regular season wise, playoffs you name it.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html

Could add more but it's probably in vain. pretentious poster as usual, no facts just feels. Kobe stan prolly, you prolly think kobe is/was a great defender :lol
1) Scottie roamed quite a bit as well. Note that I said nothing about their man defense.
2) I addressed Magic, see my post above
3) As for other assignments, again, I said nothing about man defense. Nothing, at all.
4) Individual DRtg and DWS are shit stats based on box scores. They have absolutely no value. If you don't know how they're calculated, don't refer to them.

www.basketball-reference.com/about/ratings.html
www.basketball-reference.com/about/ws.html
5) I'm not a Kobe stan (I am a fan obviously, since he played for my team), and I think he's very much overrated defensively.

[juju151111]

how about mentioning pippen got the heavy assignments to let mj relax for o and enabling him to roam.
how about mentioning that pippen was much better at switching on people and keeping the defense intact while still covering PFs decently... isn't that help D?

@defense overall
how about pippen or harper getting the real assignments? How about magic in 1991 when he drilled MJ ass something special? How about MJ's special rules where he was allowed to hack howere he wanted and STILL his best defensive season is worse than paul fcuking george's. Pippen absolutely trumps all non-bigs.

How about all the freaking statistical data saying otherwise from regular season to post-season:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/dws_season.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/dws_season_p.html
how about saying that pippen's defensive rating was ALWAYS better than jordan's. Career wise, regular season wise, playoffs you name it.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html

Could add more but it's probably in vain. pretentious poster as usual, no facts just feels. Kobe stan prolly, you prolly think kobe is/was a great defender :lol
DWS and Drating is nonsense. Also Mj guarded Magic for the majority od that postseason idiot. Mj took on just has many defensive assignment s over the years.

[fpliii]

What games were you watching to come to this conclusion. What years?
MJ from 88 through the end of the first threepeat. Not so much a conclusion as an observation (and it's just my present stance). Nothing definitive.

[swagga]

DWS and Drating is nonsense. Also Mj guarded Magic for the majority od that postseason idiot. Mj took on just has many defensive assignment s over the years.

look at the finals you dumb fcuk :roll: :roll: :roll:

[swagga]

and lol at comparative statistical data being garbage. Do you even math?:oldlol:

[fpliii]

and lol at comparative statistical data being garbage. Do you even math?:oldlol:
Math graduate and did my grad work in stats. e-mail me if you want me to explain in detail why those stats are flawed:

fpliii@alumni.stanford.edu

[juju151111]

look at the finals you dumb fcuk :roll: :roll: :roll:
Go watch the 91 finals again. Pippen guarded him for the 2 half of game 2 and in spurts the rest of the series. Mj was right back on Magic in game 3:facepalm Stop watching DVD highlights:facepalm

[swagga]

1) Scottie roamed quite a bit as well. Note that I said nothing about their man defense.
2) I addressed Magic, see my post above
3) As for other assignments, again, I said nothing about man defense. Nothing, at all.
4) Individual DRtg and DWS are shit stats based on box scores. They have absolutely no value. If you don't know how they're calculated, don't refer to them.

www.basketball-reference.com/about/ratings.html
www.basketball-reference.com/about/ws.html
5) I'm not a Kobe stan (I am a fan obviously, since he played for my team), and I think he's very much overrated defensively.

I'm just pointing out that correct switching while being able to guard the switch >>>>>>>>> weakside blocks or steals because it is extremely disruptive for the offense. Thing at which pippen >>>> jordan because of skills, height and length and which can be seen in stats. That all the while pippen DID get the heavier assignments from a D pov.

btw win shares are computed through statstical comparison between player impact and team rating through a pretty simple statistical formula which you'll see in statistical analysis in many other fields and which if given alot of samples (plays) will converge to the correct result. But you can call it garbage if you wish.

[juju151111]

and lol at comparative statistical data being garbage. Do you even math?:oldlol:
Go look at Boozer defensive rating over the years then comeback to me dummy:facepalm

[swagga]

Math graduate and did my grad work in stats. e-mail me if you want me to explain in detail why those stats are flawed:

fpliii@alumni.stanford.edu

son quit trolling.

[swagga]

Go look at Boozer defensive rating over the years then comeback to me dummy:facepalm

what's there to see except that since he came to chicago he plays better man and thibodeau instilled some discipline in him?

[fpliii]

I'm just pointing out that correct switching while being able to guard the switch >>>>>>>>> weakside blocks or steals because it is extremely disruptive for the offense. Thing at which pippen >>>> jordan because of skills, height and length and which can be seen in stats. That all the while pippen DID get the heavier assignments from a D pov.

btw win shares are computed through statstical comparison between player impact and team rating through a pretty simple statistical formula which you'll see in statistical analysis in many other fields and which if given alot of samples (plays) will converge to the correct result. But you can call it garbage if you wish.
All I'm saying is MJ was more disciplined in the tape I watched, and was better at rotating. MJ was tremendous at getting around picks. Both guys gambled a ton, but Scottie seemed to do so more in the tape I watched (which was 88-93, so mostly his younger years; both gambled a bit, but they weren't punished often for mistakes).

Do you have any clue what you're talking about? Look how DWS is calculated:


A. 1973-74 to present NBA

Crediting Defensive Win Shares to players is based on Dean Oliver's Defensive Rating. Defensive Rating is an estimate of the player's points allowed per 100 defensive possessions (please see Oliver's book for further details). Here is a description of the process (once again using LeBron James in 2008-09 as an example):

Calculate the Defensive Rating for each player. James's Defensive Rating in 2008-09 was 99.1.
Calculate marginal defense for each player. Marginal defense is equal to (player minutes played / team minutes played) * (team defensive possessions) * (1.08 * (league points per possession) - ((Defensive Rating) / 100)). For James this is (3054 / 19780) * 7341 * ((1.08 * 1.083) - (99.1 / 100)) = 202.5. Note that this formula may produce a negative result for some players.
Calculate marginal points per win. Marginal points per win reduces to 0.32 * (league points per game) * ((team pace) / (league pace)). For the 2008-09 Cavaliers this is 0.32 * 100.0 * (88.7 / 91.7) = 30.95.
Credit Defensive Win Shares to the players. Defensive Win Shares are credited using the following formula: (marginal defense) / (marginal points per win). James gets credit for 202.5 / 30.95 = 6.54 Defensive Win Shares.

Here's how individual DRtg is calculated:


Defensive Rating

Just as Oliver's Offensive Rating represents points produced by the player per 100 possessions consumed, his Defensive Rating estimates how many points the player allowed per 100 possessions he individually faced while on the court.

The core of the Defensive Rating calculation is the concept of the individual Defensive Stop. Stops take into account the instances of a player ending an opposing possession that are tracked in the boxscore (blocks, steals, and defensive rebounds), in addition to an estimate for the number of forced turnovers and forced misses by the player which aren't captured by steals and blocks.

The formula for Stops is:

Stops = Stops1 + Stops2
where:

Stops1 = STL + BLK * FMwt * (1 - 1.07 * DOR%) + DRB * (1 - FMwt)
FMwt = (DFG% * (1 - DOR%)) / (DFG% * (1 - DOR%) + (1 - DFG%) * DOR%)
DOR% = Opponent_ORB / (Opponent_ORB + Team_DRB)
DFG% = Opponent_FGM / Opponent_FGA
Stops2 = (((Opponent_FGA - Opponent_FGM - Team_BLK) / Team_MP) * FMwt * (1 - 1.07 * DOR%) + ((Opponent_TOV - Team_STL) / Team_MP)) * MP + (PF / Team_PF) * 0.4 * Opponent_FTA * (1 - (Opponent_FTM / Opponent_FTA))^2
Also necessary is the calculation of Stop%, which is the rate at which a player forces a defensive stop as a percentage of individual possessions faced (essentially the inverse of Floor%, but for defenders):

Stop% = (Stops * Opponent_MP) / (Team_Possessions * MP)
With those numbers in hand, individual Defensive Rating can be computed:

DRtg = Team_Defensive_Rating + 0.2 * (100 * D_Pts_per_ScPoss * (1 - Stop%) - Team_Defensive_Rating)
where:

Team_Defensive_Rating = 100 * (Opponent_PTS / Team_Possessions)
D_Pts_per_ScPoss = Opponent_PTS / (Opponent_FGM + (1 - (1 - (Opponent_FTM / Opponent_FTA))^2) * Opponent_FTA*0.4)
Notes:

In a later chapter of Basketball on Paper, Oliver emphasized that Offensive Ratings shouldn't be viewed in a vacuum. Introducing a concept he called "Skill Curves", he acknowledged that a player's ORtg needed to be judged in conjunction with his Usage Rate, a measure of how big a role the player fills in his team's offense. The bigger the role, the more difficult it is to maintain a high ORtg; the smaller the role, the easier it is to be highly efficient. Because of this, Oliver stressed that a player's ORtg should primarily be compared to those of other players in a similar role.
Out of necessity (owing to a lack of defensive data in the basic boxscore), individual Defensive Ratings are heavily influenced by the team's defensive efficiency. They assume that all teammates are equally good (per minute) at forcing non-steal turnovers and non-block misses, as well as assuming that all teammates face the same number of total possessions per minute.
Perhaps as a byproduct, big men tend to have the best Defensive Ratings (although Oliver notes that history's best defensive teams were generally anchored by dominant defensive big men, suggesting that those types of players are the most important to a team's defensive success). A corollary to this is that excellent perimeter defenders who don't steal the ball a lot — for instance, Joe Dumars or Doug Christie — are underrated defensively by DRtg, and are prone to look only as good as their team's overall defense performs.

So it comes down to blocks/steals/defensive rebounds, and then EVERYBODY ON THE TEAM gets identical credit for other possessions. You were saying...?

son quit trolling.
Not trolling at all. If the explanation above doesn't suffice, then you're welcome to email me. Don't spam my mailbox though dude.

[juju151111]

what's there to see except that since he came to chicago he plays better man and thibodeau instilled some discipline in him?
No he routinely gets pulled out of games cause of his defense. He is horrible. Ask any bulls fan. He been better this year but his first 2 years were horrible. The stats rewards players on good defensive teams.

[juju151111]

Who guarding Magic in game 3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2d1q0d8nDg:facepalm

[Young X]

Jordan was better than Pippen at guarding quick PG's like Thomas, KJ, Strickland because of his lateral quickness, he was also a slightly better ball thief and shotblocker. Pippen was better at guarding bigger post players because of his size.

[swagga]

All I'm saying is MJ was more disciplined in the tape I watched, and was better at rotating. MJ was tremendous at getting around picks. Both guys gambled a ton, but Scottie seemed to do so more in the tape I watched (which was 88-93, so mostly his younger years; both gambled a bit, but they weren't punished often for mistakes).

Do you have any clue what you're talking about? Look how DWS is calculated:



Here's how individual DRtg is calculated:


So it comes down to blocks/steals/defensive rebounds, and then EVERYBODY ON THE TEAM gets identical credit for other possessions. You were saying...?

Not trolling at all. If the explanation above doesn't suffice, then you're welcome to email me. Don't spam my mailbox though dude.

great reply.:applause: did not know how drtg was computed, thought it was something more advanced. my bad there.

but interestingly since we were talking about jordan vs pippen and they both played on the same team you still get to a clear separation favoring the player closer to the basket. Agree on the great man-to-man smaller defenders in doug christie and joe D getting bad drtg, but we were talking mainly about help and both of them aren't really renowned for it.

anyways, even without stats I'm sticking to the fact that guarding multiple positions proficiently >>> weak side blocks, steals or slipping picks.

[swagga]

Jordan was better than Pippen at guarding quick PG's like Thomas, KJ, Strickland because of his lateral quickness, he was also a slightly better ball thief and shotblocker. Pippen was better at guarding bigger post players because of his size.

quick PGs are much less important to an offense than bigger players such as say drexler, magic, worthy, bird, etc and as far as I remeber Isiah did do very well against chicago most of the time.

[fpliii]

great reply.:applause: did not know how drtg was computed, thought it was something more advanced. my bad there.

but interestingly since we were talking about jordan vs pippen and they both played on the same team you still get to a clear separation favoring the player closer to the basket. Agree on the great man-to-man smaller defenders in doug christie and joe D getting bad drtg, but we were talking mainly about help and both of them aren't really renowned for it.

anyways, even without stats I'm sticking to the fact that guarding multiple positions proficiently >>> weak side blocks, steals or slipping picks.
:cheers:
That's fine, I think your opinion is perfectly reasonable and I shared it for a while, but rewatching tape has forced me to revise my opinion. When I rewatch more of them from (the second threepeat, and the year and a half with MJ out) I could very well change my opinion again.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Pippen did not "take the heavy assignments." During the years they played together, Pippen guarded SF's (you know, his POSITION) with like 3-5 exceptions in 10 years:

Magic in the '91 Finals, whom he guarded about half the time along with Jordan.

62 year old Mark Jackson in the '98 ECF.

Penny Hardaway, who at 6'7" had SF size anyway, in the '96 ECF, whom he covered about 70% of the time.


When the best player was a SF, Pippen took them. When the best player was a SG, combo guard, or occasionally a PG, Jordan took them. It was Jordan who took Dumars/Isiah in those Pistons series (Detroit's best offensive players), Drexler in '92, Kevin Johnson and Dan Majerle in '93, Mark Price at times during the '92 and '93 Cavs series, Rod Strickland at times in the '97 postseason etc. Gve me a break, Swagga.

[swagga]

Who guarding Magic in game 3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2d1q0d8nDg:facepalm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ARHtF4Letw :facepalm
you can also see this if you look at the later stages of the game from the link you gave me :facepalm

[swagga]

Pippen did not "take the heavy assignments." During the years they played together, Pippen guarded SF's (you know, his POSITION) with like 3-5 exceptions in 10 years:

Magic in the '91 Finals, whom he guarded about half the time along with Jordan.

62 year old Mark Jackson in the '98 ECF.

Penny Hardaway, who at 6'7" had SF size anyway, in the '96 ECF, whom he covered about 70% of the time.


When the best player was a SF, Pippen took them. When the best player was a SG, combo guard, or occasionally a PG, Jordan took them. It was Jordan who took Dumars/Isiah in those Pistons series (Detroit's best offensive players), Drexler in '92, Kevin Johnson and Dan Majerle in '93, Mark Price at times during the '92 and '93 Cavs series, Rod Strickland at times in the '97 postseason etc. Gve me a break, Swagga.

why not mention how charles barkley and how pippen used to guard him?
why not mention or dominique, glen rice, or larry nance, or xavier mcdaniels?

so you have jordan guarding dumars/isiah/drexler/kevin johnson/majerle/mark price/starks/payton/reggie miller
and pippen guarding magic/worthy/penny/barkley/dominuque/nance/rice

Do you think for the bulls title hopes the former or the latter group is more menacing? Frankly i'd say the latter by quite a distance.

[kshutts1]

Both tremendous defenders, obviously. What stands out for me about Jordan is his never-say-die attitude that is prevalent even in his defense. Maybe not chase down highlight blocks, but dude NEVER stopped trying to hurt the other team. Not sure Pippen had that. When engaged, though, Pippen was the best of the two... I just don't think Jordan knew how to NOT be engaged.

And as for the Gs that Jordan guarded, the lone counter-argument I can think of (or rather, exception) is Stockton in the '98 finals... maybe '97. But I think it was Game 3 where Pippen almost single-handedly held the Jazz to 54 points because he harassed Stock so badly.

Edit: I remember Pip's defense being so strong in that GAME that he was getting talk of finals MVP. For one game. Then his migraine game happened (I believe) and it all went out the window, lol

[Calabis]

MJ didnt deserve DPOY with Pippen on his team. That much I can say.

:facepalm

Jackazz look when Jordan won DPOY, then look how much Pippen played

[juju151111]

quick PGs are much less important to an offense than bigger players such as say drexler, magic, worthy, bird, etc and as far as I remeber Isiah did do very well against chicago most of the time.
Isiah Shit horrible when Mj was put on him in 90 I think sub 40%. Anyways you still didn't respond to how Pippen guarded Magic to rest Mj when that wasn't true.

[juju151111]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ARHtF4Letw :facepalm
you can also see this if you look at the later stages of the game from the link you gave me :facepalm
Are you retarded? I said in a previous post that Pippen guarded him in spurts Mj was the main defender. :facepalm Mj guarded Isiah in 90,Clyde in 92, etc.... Mj wasn't resting Shit like you claim.

[Calabis]

Well, Scottie was better manning up some guys. For instance, in the 91 Finals, even though Magic was great against everybody (except Grant in limited possessions), Pippen did a better job on him than MJ did:

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1261129

Pippen definitely made Magic work harder getting the ball up the court, due to his size...but people act like Magic was destroying MJ in Game 2, that's why the switch was made....no he had 0 points against Jordan when the switch was made...two quick fouls made the change. Also Jordan continued to guard Magic the majority of the series. Pippen did a better job though.

[juju151111]

why not mention how charles barkley and how pippen used to guard him?
why not mention or dominique, glen rice, or larry nance, or xavier mcdaniels?

so you have jordan guarding dumars/isiah/drexler/kevin johnson/majerle/mark price/starks/payton/reggie miller
and pippen guarding magic/worthy/penny/barkley/dominuque/nance/rice

Do you think for the bulls title hopes the former or the latter group is more menacing? Frankly i'd say the latter by quite a distance.
Why is Magic in Pippen group? Mj guarded Magic 70% of the series.:facepalm So that means Mj wins or they are equal

[DonDadda59]

According to Johnny Bach (Bulls assistant coach during the first 3-peat):

[B][I][INDENT]Who was the better defender? Pippen was one of the best and most gifted defenders of all time. But MJ was the better defender. Michael could shut down anyone in the world for a 3 minute span. The best he

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Fpliii - tape or DVD? If you have access to MJ VHS hit me up.

[fpliii]

Fpliii - tape or DVD? If you have access to MJ VHS hit me up.
Some from torrents (mostly playoff games), others are DVD from here:

nbaondvdbest.com

I don't think any of mine are rare, though.

[Natureland]

Some from torrents (mostly playoff games), others are DVD from here:

nbaondvdbest.com

I don't think any of mine are rare, though.
Mind naming sites? I use sport-scene, rutracker and DavkaBT mainly, but I've been looking for more recently.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Mind naming sites? I use sport-scene, rutracker and DavkaBT mainly, but I've been looking for more recently.

Yeah. sport-Scene is handy (got a lot of my games from there). The guy that runs Nbaondvdbest (goes by the name "Stan") is cool people. Ask him about package deals and he'll hook you up with a bunch of games, you just need to pay shipping.

[fpliii]

Mind naming sites? I use sport-scene, rutracker and DavkaBT mainly, but I've been looking for more recently.
Those two. Sometimes I'll search for games on youtube, but those are mostly playoff games that everybody's seen 1000x.

Yeah. sport-Scene is handy (got a lot of my games from there). The guy that runs Nbaondvdbest (goes by the name "Stan") is cool people. Ask him about package deals and he'll hook you up with a bunch of games, you just need to pay shipping.
I can vouch for him as well, good dude. I've gotten a bunch of games from him, and he's very reasonable with shipping fees.

[Big#50]

IDC what anyone says, but the hand check rule helped Jordan the most. helped everyone but I think Jordan benefited a lot more. His huge hands and strength were perfect for that rule. He got away with a lot of shit too.
Pippen>Jordan not close really. Pippen is a top three perimeter defender ever.
Jordan is not the best at every damn thing.

[DonDadda59]

IDC what anyone says, but the hand check rule helped Jordan the most. helped everyone but I think Jordan benefited a lot more. His huge hands and strength were perfect for that rule. He got away with a lot of shit too.
Pippen>Jordan not close really. Pippen is a top three perimeter defender ever.
Jordan is not the best at every damn thing.

Salty :oldlol:

[Calabis]

IDC what anyone says, but the hand check rule helped Jordan the most. helped everyone but I think Jordan benefited a lot more. His huge hands and strength were perfect for that rule. He got away with a lot of shit too.
Pippen>Jordan not close really. Pippen is a top three perimeter defender ever.
Jordan is not the best at every damn thing.

Actually you should watch more of his games..he was not a huge hand checking guy.

but stay salty my friend :lol

[juju151111]

IDC what anyone says, but the hand check rule helped Jordan the most. helped everyone but I think Jordan benefited a lot more. His huge hands and strength were perfect for that rule. He got away with a lot of shit too.
Pippen>Jordan not close really. Pippen is a top three perimeter defender ever.
Jordan is not the best at every damn thing.
You mad bro?:lol

[The-Legend-24]

No, Pippen made MJ into what he became, dude kept choking until the real Alpha showed up.

Keep in mind, OP think Bill Russell is a top 3 player ever. :roll: