There Are Shortcuts to Greatness

[Angel Face]

Lebron took this road and in reward, he has gotten a championship ring which is special because unlike the rings of other players (scrub / all time great), it came up with an asterisk. What if he didn't took a shortcut and stayed in Cleveland. Do you think he's still ringless up to this day or he would've gotten a championship ring? How many?

Discuss!

[JohnFreeman]

Would you stay at a workplace which you didn't like?

[KyrieTheFuture]

He would have won every single year he stayed until he retired because real life is a magical fairy land where people get rewarded for doing the "right" thing.

[fpliii]

This shit isn't black and white homie. I'm not going to say his teams were terrible, but if LeBron won a championship in Cleveland it would've been with (arguably) the worst supporting cast in NBA history (you have what are considered one-man runs by some—Barry 75, Walton 77, Hakeem 94, MJ 98, Duncan 03, Dirk 11—but the Cavs teams outside of LeBron were not championship caliber). Don't like the guy, but it is what it is.

If LeBron gets a healthy Wade/Bosh though (which he hasn't had since 11), obviously the deck is stacked in his favor.

[Angel Face]

He would have won every single year he stayed until he retired because real life is a magical fairy land where people get rewarded for doing the "right" thing.

I get it, you're still salty about him leaving your city. Move on, it's 2014.

[tmacattack33]

He got drafted by a team that told him that Mo Williams was going to be his Scottie Pippen.

He stayed there for 7 or 8 years.

I don't see any shortcuts there.

[Jlamb47]

I think he could of won eventually by adding pieces around him. It would of been more EPIC and legendary if he didint leave the way he did.

[Byobob]

I think he could of won eventually by adding pieces around him. It would of been more EPIC and legendary if he didint leave the way he did.


IMO history remembers winners. Just look at Magic and Bird. Their team was stacked as hell but people doesn't care. Now compare them to players who won a championship or two with a relatively weaker supporting cast. I admit it is a little bit different but you get the point.

EDIT: But yeah, the way he left was kinda dumb.

[SHAQisGOAT]

IMO history remembers winners. Just look at Magic and Bird. Their team was stacked as hell but people doesn't care. Now compare them to players who won a championship or two with a relatively weaker supporting cast. I admit it is a little bit different but you get the point.

EDIT: But yeah, the way he left was kinda dumb.

I love how people mention Bird and Magic when saying things along those lines but "forget" they went against eachother :rolleyes:
Oh, and when Bird came around the Celtics were hitting rock bottom, in terms of various things, and had the 2nd worst record in the league.

[KyrieTheFuture]

I get it, you're still salty about him leaving your city. Move on, it's 2014.
Nice 4th grade reading comprehension. I SUPPORTED his decision to leave.

[ImKobe]

Hey look, another insecure Jordan fan.

[Jlamb47]

IMO history remembers winners. Just look at Magic and Bird. Their team was stacked as hell but people doesn't care. Now compare them to players who won a championship or two with a relatively weaker supporting cast. I admit it is a little bit different but you get the point.

EDIT: But yeah, the way he left was kinda dumb.

Yeah i hear you on that, its just how he did it cuz Larry always stuck with Celtics and MAgic was always with Lakers, So Lebron winning in CLeveland would of been HUGE cuz they never won a title in that franchise. He took 2 rings to Miami where they already won from Wade.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Meh. I don't think any of his rings have "asterisks". Had Miami won in 2011, that would be the only chip I may have considered "cheap".

[JohnMax]

He would have 0 rings if he stayed in Cleveland.

No way is he beating Dallas or San Antonio. That leaves OKC but remember they only struggle against Miami because of small ball line-up which Cleveland does not have.

[ImKobe]

He would have 0 rings if he stayed in Cleveland.

No way is he beating Dallas or San Antonio. That leaves OKC but remember they only struggle against Miami because of small ball line-up which Cleveland does not have.

2012 Cleveland vs OKC would have been a sick series, probably goes down to a Game 7.

[Byobob]

He would have 0 rings if he stayed in Cleveland.

No way is he beating Dallas or San Antonio. That leaves OKC but remember they only struggle against Miami because of small ball line-up which Cleveland does not have.


This. The incompetency of Cavs' FO is on another level. The chance that he would eventually win a ship if he stayed is just next to none.

[Mass Debator]

Would you stay at a workplace which you didn't like?
Difference is that Lebron was pretty much the boss of his work place. lol

[dude77]

lebron james didn't take any fkn short cut .. he was in fkn cleveland for 7 yrs .. he's earned everything he's gotten

[Solefade]

he'd be ringless still...why can't people realize the cavs are just a shitty organization? look at these fools with top draft picks ever since he left and still can't make the damn playoffs in the east

miami was the greatest thing that ever happened to lebron even with all the haters that are included

[DaSeba5]

lebron james didn't take any fkn short cut .. he was in fkn cleveland for 7 yrs .. he's earned everything he's gotten

This.

[russwest0]

no, there are no shortcuts to greatness.

sure, you can shortcut your way to an asterisk ring or two. wouldn't call that "greatness" though.

[Flash31]

Lebron took this road and in reward, he has gotten a championship ring which is special because unlike the rings of other players (scrub / all time great), it came up with an asterisk. What if he didn't took a shortcut and stayed in Cleveland. Do you think he's still ringless up to this day or he would've gotten a championship ring? How many?

Discuss!


I know you hate LeBron and slobber all over MJs balls and might just being doing this to either troll LeBron stans or bc youre insecure about MJs legacy.
LeBron is catching up just like Kobe was so you try to discredit him

but

Wade,Bosh,LeBron is somehow asterisk championship while
Pippen,Jordan,Rodman,Horace were not hmm

I really do not get the sheer ignorance of trolls and haters
Somehow Free Agency now is Bad and having too good a team is bad

Remember people if its not Bulls,Lakers,Celtics,Knicks and we decide we hate you
You can not have too good a team,Thats bad and deserves endless hate,criticism

Now if it was our team well....GOAT,But its not so Asterisk,STACKEdZ,Cheat


I mean 72-10 Bulls,Multiple 60 win seasons,Stacked 60s Celtics,
33 Game win streak Lakers,Ref Helped 2002 Lakers,Mavs having highest payroll year after year
Thats all fine,but some stars going to a city that people didnt expect and dont pay attention to as free agents and NOT their team ---Asterisk

And all this coming from sheer irony and hypocricy---
Kobe,Jordan,Laker,Celtic stans Huh?

[IncarceratedBob]

The Cavs had the chance to trade for Garnett and Billups in 07 but declined, if they had done that then LBJ stays and Cavs win back 2 back in 07/08

[red1]

what is the op talking about. didnt you see the tshirt?

[red1]

cmon bro gotta get your facts straight



http://jbsmooth84.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/lebron-james-espn-covo.jpg

[zoom17]

http://static.gamespot.com/uploads/original/1532/15320372/2374241-6241253370-backf.gif

[Andrei89]

The Cavs had the chance to trade for Garnett and Billups in 07 but declined, if they had done that then LBJ stays and Cavs win back 2 back in 07/08

Why in the hell would they turn that down?

[JT123]

I love how people mention Bird and Magic when saying things along those lines but "forget" they went against eachother :rolleyes:
Oh, and when Bird came around the Celtics were hitting rock bottom, in terms of various things, and had the 2nd worst record in the league.
Just like Lebron and Durant are going against each other now. :rolleyes:
And don't try an act like Durant has an inferior supporting cast. He has a top 5 player in Westbrook, an All Star caliber player in Ibaka, and a great sixth man in Caron Butler. What does Lebron have? A broken down Wade and a 40 year old Ray Allen? :roll:

[Rake2204]

What if he didn't took a shortcut and stayed in Cleveland. Do you think he's still ringless up to this day or he would've gotten a championship ring? How many?

Discuss!I actually thought the Cavaliers were going to win a championship in 2009. Those fellers were steamrolling through the playoffs (swept first two rounds) and I thought they were going to do the same thing to Orlando. And they jumped all over the Magic to start. I remember Mo Williams hitting that halfcourt buzzer beater at the end of the second quarter in game 1, capping a huge first half and big lead, and I thought winning a ring, or at least duking it out with Kobe Bryant and the Lakers, was a foregone conclusion.

I think there's a very good chance a ring, or multiple rings, would have come along to James and his Cavaliers had his stayed in Cleveland. At the time, with all the buzz about James and his decision, I thought the most likely and favorable occurrence would have been for LeBron to stay in Cleveland while they wooed someone like Chris Bosh to be a competent wingman. Had that happened, I thought they would have been in the running in '11, and it would have been fun to see, LeBron rising up and leading the Cavaliers to the promised land.

Cleveland won 60+ in two of his last three years (59 his last). They fell to the eventual Eastern Conference Champion in six games (who in turn took the Lakers to seven games). I didn't think the Cavaliers were far off at all. I thought they were at the point where it was more about a couple of breaks not going their way as opposed to them flat out not being good enough. That's why it was a drag to see James surrender and opt for the Dream Team overkill.

[Flash31]

I actually thought the Cavaliers were going to win a championship in 2009. Those fellers were steamrolling through the playoffs (swept first two rounds) and I thought they were going to do the same thing to Orlando. And they jumped all over the Magic to start. I remember Mo Williams hitting that halfcourt buzzer beater at the end of the second quarter in game 1, capping a huge first half and big lead, and I thought winning a ring, or at least duking it out with Kobe Bryant and the Lakers, was a foregone conclusion.

I think there's a very good chance a ring, or multiple rings, would have come along to James and his Cavaliers had his stayed in Cleveland. At the time, with all the buzz about James and his decision, I thought the most likely and favorable occurrence would have been for LeBron to stay in Cleveland while they wooed someone like Chris Bosh to be a competent wingman. Had that happened, I thought they would have been in the running in '11, and it would have been fun to see, LeBron rising up and leading the Cavaliers to the promised land.

Cleveland won 60+ in two of his last three years (59 his last). They fell to the eventual Eastern Conference Champion in six games (who in turn took the Lakers to seven games). I didn't think the Cavaliers were far off at all. I thought they were at the point where it was more about a couple of breaks not going their way as opposed to them flat out not being good enough. That's why it was a drag to see James surrender and opt for the Dream Team overkill.


The weren't going to win maybe one in 2011 with The Heat and their tandem of Wade&Bosh or new trio gelling but that was it.

Bosh,Wade,Amare,Carmelo---nobody wanted to play in Cleveland regardless of LeBron or not.

People keep saying,Cle Might have won if LJ stayed but who do the Cavs get with LJ---Boozer left as soon as he could,all the stars never wanted to be there and his best help was Old ass Shaq and Mo FN Williams in 7 years--
That's saying something

Say if he stayed,
Those same Cavs have got to go through
D Rose Bulls,Dwight Magic,Boston,NY Knicks,Heat,Pacers.

Instead of facing probably one to two tough teams and overcoming--now it's every single round.

The Cavs,Bulls,Heat would all be fighting for top seed.

Whose to say Carmelo doesn't joing Miami instead of NY or Deron Williams goes to Heat

Deron,Wade,Bosh and bench is a pretty damn good team.
The Heat were always planning either to get 3 all stars,or 2 and fill it out---either way the Cavs chances would be even slimmer instead of Boston,Magic now it's even harder.

Those Cavs were basically AI 76ers,Rose Bulls---close but aside from the star--they had no offense it was 1 man shows which Do Not WIN EVER.
2011 Mavs,Hakeem Rockets were NOT One MAN SHOWS,They were good TEAMS.

[Flash31]

The title of this thread reminds me

There are shortcuts to greatness and there is a simple title for them



ESPN,The Media and Your Balls

[20Four]

Just my 2 cents:

LeBRONZE did take a shortcut because didn't he say he wanted to bring a championship to Cleveland and wouldn't leave until he did so? Now all of a sudden he joins WADES team to win....if hes sooooo great...why not bring players to you.../thread

[pauk]

So you are saying if he recieved Wade/Bosh in Cleveland it wouldnt be a shortcut simply because he didnt decide to change his jersey?

[JebronLames]

They scared now

[20Four]

So you are saying if he recieved Wade/Bosh in Cleveland it wouldnt be a shortcut simply because he didnt decide to change his jersey? :confusedshrug:
I'm just saying that if he brought them to Cleveland it would look better for him because of this article Lebron wants to bring CHIP to the CAVS (http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/174990-lebrons-goal-bring-title-to-cleveland) so what was that all about? lol Niqqa bullsh|ts

[Solefade]

Just my 2 cents:

LeBRONZE did take a shortcut because didn't he say he wanted to bring a championship to Cleveland and wouldn't leave until he did so? Now all of a sudden he joins WADES team to win....if hes sooooo great...why not bring players to you.../thread


your opinion is literally worth nothing, not even 2 cents so gtfo.

[JT123]

Just my 2 cents:

LeBRONZE did take a shortcut because didn't he say he wanted to bring a championship to Cleveland and wouldn't leave until he did so? Now all of a sudden he joins WADES team to win....if hes sooooo great...why not bring players to you.../thread
Why are you always bolding certain words? :wtf: You have got to be the worst poster EVER on this site, even worse than knicksman. :oldlol: :facepalm

[20Four]

your opinion is literally worth nothing, not even 2 cents so gtfo.
lol talk to me when you get leBRONZE jizz out your fvcking mouth bandwagon b|tch

[sammichoffate]

your opinion is literally worth nothing, not even 2 cents so gtfo.http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2DnAPfgH4nQ/UMRrFPi4pJI/AAAAAAAAD1U/GKyDW3HhYlE/s1600/dismay.gif

[20Four]

http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/174990-lebrons-goal-bring-title-to-cleveland

Lebron is a joke


Lebron James used his first appearance on NBA TV's "Arena Link" to make quite a statement. "I got a goal, and it's a huge goal, and that's to bring an NBA championship here to Cleveland," James said. "And I won't stop until I get it." Taken literally, James' statement is newsworthy because it would mean that the Cavs' superstar, who can become a free-agent this summer, would stay in Cleveland at least as long as it takes to bring the city an NBA championship.

Keep hatin

[Solefade]

lol talk to me when you get leBRONZE jizz out your fvcking mouth bandwagon b|tch


k bro, and talk to me when you're not drunk off the kobe man juice :cheers:

[Rake2204]

The weren't going to win maybe one in 2011 with The Heat and their tandem of Wade&Bosh or new trio gelling but that was it.

Bosh,Wade,Amare,Carmelo---nobody wanted to play in Cleveland regardless of LeBron or not.

People keep saying,Cle Might have won if LJ stayed but who do the Cavs get with LJ---Boozer left as soon as he could,all the stars never wanted to be there and his best help was Old ass Shaq and Mo FN Williams in 7 years--
That's saying something

Say if he stayed,
Those same Cavs have got to go through
D Rose Bulls,Dwight Magic,Boston,NY Knicks,Heat,Pacers.

Instead of facing probably one to two tough teams and overcoming--now it's every single round.

The Cavs,Bulls,Heat would all be fighting for top seed.

Whose to say Carmelo doesn't joing Miami instead of NY or Deron Williams goes to Heat

Deron,Wade,Bosh and bench is a pretty damn good team.
The Heat were always planning either to get 3 all stars,or 2 and fill it out---either way the Cavs chances would be even slimmer instead of Boston,Magic now it's even harder.

Those Cavs were basically AI 76ers,Rose Bulls---close but aside from the star--they had no offense it was 1 man shows which Do Not WIN EVER.
2011 Mavs,Hakeem Rockets were NOT One MAN SHOWS,They were good TEAMS.This is a tough discussion to have, because it's more or less a matter of one's imagination versus another, so I do not believe there will be a right and wrong.

I felt Cleveland was getting to a point, or was already at a point, where players good enough to help LeBron James lead his team to a championship were going to want to play there. It's unfortunate Chris Bosh seemed to want to stay away from Cleveland (after being in Toronto for so long) but I don't think others were treating the ballclub as they once did.

It was the same thing in Detroit when my club was good. If we look now, no one's really looking at Motown and saying, "I want to be in Auburn Hills". But when a club is contending and winning, suddenly pieces are on board (Rasheed re-signing, Antonio McDyess, etc.).

With how good that Cleveland team already was in the preceding years, I didn't think it was going to take a lot to put them over the edge (I thought they already were over the edge in '09 but just lost a couple of games they could have won in the ECF).

I may respectfully disagree in regards to comparing those Cavs teams to the Iverson 76ers. I actually thought the Cavs had some offensive pieces that fit their system quite well, even if they weren't great at creating for themselves. With LeBron James being such an incredible player, and raising the level of his teammate's offensive play with deft passes, setups, and maneuvers, guys like Mo Williams, Delonte West, Wally Szczerbiak, and Zydrunas Ilgauskas were all able to contribute well above what their name would usually dictate.

I understand winning a championship with a supporting cast like those Cleveland teams is rare. But I felt LeBron James' talent and ability to raise the level of all those around him was even rarer. Strictly as a fan of the game, I viewed him as The Gamebreaker. I thought other teams would try to stack up in big markets, looking to ease their way to a ring simply by building mega squads and floating their way through. Then I thought LeBron James was going to take his competent group in Cleveland and plow through everyone, showing everybody that his way - unselfish dominance - is the way.

I didn't think he needed a superstar teammate, let alone two of them. It almost feels like a comic book plot. Instead of being the guy to fight the power that was cozy warm markets piling stars into town, he went out of his way to create the biggest cozy super power possible.

[Flash31]

This is a tough discussion to have, because it's more or less a matter of one's imagination versus another, so I do not believe there will be a right and wrong.

I felt Cleveland was getting to a point, or was already at a point, where players good enough to help LeBron James lead his team to a championship were going to want to play there. It's unfortunate Chris Bosh seemed to want to stay away from Cleveland (after being in Toronto for so long) but I don't think others were treating the ballclub as they once did.

It was the same thing in Detroit when my club was good. If we look now, no one's really looking at Motown and saying, "I want to be in Auburn Hills". But when a club is contending and winning, suddenly pieces are on board (Rasheed re-signing, Antonio McDyess, etc.).

With how good that Cleveland team already was in the preceding years, I didn't think it was going to take a lot to put them over the edge (I thought they already were over the edge in '09 but just lost a couple of games they could have won in the ECF).

I may respectfully disagree in regards to comparing those Cavs teams to the Iverson 76ers. I actually thought the Cavs had some offensive pieces that fit their system quite well, even if they weren't great at creating for themselves. With LeBron James being such an incredible player, and raising the level of his teammate's offensive play with deft passes, setups, and maneuvers, guys like Mo Williams, Delonte West, Wally Szczerbiak, and Zydrunas Ilgauskas were all able to contribute well above what their name would usually dictate.

I understand winning a championship with a supporting cast like those Cleveland teams is rare. But I felt LeBron James' talent and ability to raise the level of all those around him was even rarer. Strictly as a fan of the game, I viewed him as The Gamebreaker. I thought other teams would try to stack up in big markets, looking to ease their way to a ring simply by building mega squads and floating their way through. Then I thought LeBron James was going to take his competent group in Cleveland and plow through everyone, showing everybody that his way - unselfish dominance - is the way.

I didn't think he needed a superstar teammate, let alone two of them. It almost feels like a comic book plot. Instead of being the guy to fight the power that was cozy warm markets piling stars into town, he went out of his way to create the biggest cozy super power possible.

A one man led team carrying what would be otherwise a lottery team has NEVER WON in History.

I dont mind listening to Cavs,haters,stans opinions if theyre within reason.

The fact remains--in 7 Years Time the Best Cle got next to LJ was Mo and 40yr old Shaq--any other so called contending team wouldve got criticized,hated,and rightfully torn apart an the star who left would be praised and admired for making things happen,nobody wouldve faulted him.


And this so called Dream Team,unfair stacking,easy way out idea is beyond
preposterous and beyond hating.

Seriously whats the difference between LeBron joining Wade and Bosh and Wade,Bosh joining LJ beside jerseys---nothing.
Nobody said a damn thing about Magic ONLY wanting to play with Kareem and threatening if Bulls drafted him,Kobe demanding to be traded,Jordan wanting a trade if he didnt get a better team,somehow its only on LJ.

It's extremely ludicrous tht some people believe being a one man team and having to have herculean efforts is a Better option than having a very good team where you dont have to be superman every night.

The LeBron and Heat hate is a clearspin on Cleveland and LJ options now in history---people act like The Cavs were close to a championship when they werent at all-----
2007-got swept hard in Finals,2009 LJ avg 38,9,9 and They still LOST

I mean if any Player aside from the heat(which everybody always discredits and hates on)Avg Near a 40 Point Triple Double and Lost---nobody would be saying Oh theyre missing a piece,theyre championship contenders,it's a good team

Facts are without LJ,Cavs were a Lottery Team an that FO and Management is higly inept and clearly wasnt going to get a good team and players around him
As we see now,Cle is racking up First Rd picks year after year and are Still in Lottery---drafted Kyrie,Waiters as only notable people and they arent anywhere near caliber of a star,rehired the inept offense Mike Brown

And thi hate of the Heat and LJ isnt bc of the team or players---
It's all bc of the media---They hyped LJ going to NY,Chi,La,Texas and then were let down and bc he joined Mia a team nobody expected and didnt have such a big media fanbase all those potential teams felt rejected so they all took the Hate against LJ and Heat trying to discredit everything JUST like Cle.

LJ left in Free Agency and the Heat was formed through FA.
What,Stars shouldnt want the easiest way possible,they should play with
Kwame Brown,Mo Williams,Chris Quinn bc it's the "right" thing rather than do the smart thing.

Somehow playing with another all star somehow is detrimental to your legacy which is asinine considering every single GOAT player had a great team but nowaday I guess if its not your team they didnt deserve it and it dont count as much---I mean come on

All the Stars want to play with the BEST--yes even the media god Jordan,he just hated Isiah but he wouldnt say No I dont want Barkley,Bird,Ewing,Rivals on my team----he had Horace Grant,Rodman,Paxson all on his team and Rodman was on his main rivals team,

People dont go Bill has 11 Rings but STACkEDZ and Dirk has One but the team wasnt as good so worth more--- no its basically
11>1,Jordan has 6,not he has 6 with Stacked Bulls team who went to ECF and won 55 without him.

Theres a saying---Winning is winning and winning solves all
At the end of the day that is all that matters.Nobody looks for or wants a harder challenge bc thats just beyond stupid regardless of what tge media has people believe.

[ArbitraryWater]

I actually thought the Cavaliers were going to win a championship in 2009. Those fellers were steamrolling through the playoffs (swept first two rounds) and I thought they were going to do the same thing to Orlando. And they jumped all over the Magic to start. I remember Mo Williams hitting that halfcourt buzzer beater at the end of the second quarter in game 1, capping a huge first half and big lead, and I thought winning a ring, or at least duking it out with Kobe Bryant and the Lakers, was a foregone conclusion.

I think there's a very good chance a ring, or multiple rings, would have come along to James and his Cavaliers had his stayed in Cleveland. At the time, with all the buzz about James and his decision, I thought the most likely and favorable occurrence would have been for LeBron to stay in Cleveland while they wooed someone like Chris Bosh to be a competent wingman. Had that happened, I thought they would have been in the running in '11, and it would have been fun to see, LeBron rising up and leading the Cavaliers to the promised land.

Cleveland won 60+ in two of his last three years (59 his last). They fell to the eventual Eastern Conference Champion in six games (who in turn took the Lakers to seven games). I didn't think the Cavaliers were far off at all. I thought they were at the point where it was more about a couple of breaks not going their way as opposed to them flat out not being good enough. That's why it was a drag to see James surrender and opt for the Dream Team overkill.

They didnt iwn 59 his last, but 61. They won 60+ both '09 and '10.

[ihoopallday]

If he won one in Cleveland here's what we'd here:
5>1
The East is weak
Stern rigged the playoffs

I could go all day. Let's face it, most of you would still criticize him. But oh well, like LeBron said himself " I ain't got no worries"

[moe94]

I get it, you're still salty about him leaving your city. Move on, it's 2014.

The irony of you talking about "asterisk" rings while telling others they need to move on is amusing. :oldlol:

[Rake2204]

Theres a saying---Winning is winning and winning solves all
At the end of the day that is all that matters.Nobody looks for or wants a harder challenge bc thats just beyond stupid regardless of what tge media has people believe.I relented from quoting your response in its entirety due to length. I stated my opinion on the manner and I believe we shall just differ in that regard.

As I always state, LeBron James was rightful in the move he made. It was his choice to make. I just was not a fan of it due to the reasons I mentioned previously. Contrary to other opinions, I truly did believe his Cleveland squad was close to winning a championship. And I understand many will be quick to say, "No, they weren't close" but I believe again, it's a matter of opinion, and one that will just run us around in circles at that.

Regarding the last quote regarding winning, I personally do not believe winning is all that matters, and that's likely why my opinion differs from many. I don't like basketball because of winning. I like when my team wins, but I also like basketball for how its played, who plays it, how they play it, the competition and all the other cool things that come alongside.

LeBron James joining forces with two other Dream Teamers took the wind out of my sails, because it took a lot of the meaning out of winning, for me. Again, I'm sure he's fine with it, and that's cool, but as a matter of personal opinion, combining Dream Teamers so as to flood out the competition even when nowhere near full strength doesn't mean as much to me as many other possible winning scenarios. What would be the fun of competition if it was just about the greatest player of an era deciding which city for which he decided to team up with two fellow Dream Teamers?


If he won one in Cleveland here's what we'd here:
5>1
The East is weak
Stern rigged the playoffs

I could go all day. Let's face it, most of you would still criticize him. But oh well, like LeBron said himself " I ain't got no worries"I think there's a lot of truth there. I believed LeBron was unfairly criticized for a very large portion of his time in Cleveland. I actually think that may have been part of my issue with him leaving too. It felt like he was giving in to mass opinion, that competing wasn't good enough, that he somehow wasn't good enough as a player until the teams for which he played began winning championship rings, no matter how great his teammates were.

I think I thought he'd be above that line of thinking. I pictured him as being a, "I'm going to lead my team to a ring and folks can just deal with it" type of guy. Not a, "The people are right, I need rings for my legacy. I better try to create a super team in South Beach." Which again though, was a move well within his rights. I do not hate him for it, but I'm not a fan of the scenario he created.

[3peated]

i think ti would have been better for the league if he didnt leave. more quality teams in the east would for sure be more exciting

[MMM]

Organization win championship and the Cavs don't have the front office foundation that the Lakers, Spurs, and Heat have. What is the point of going down as another KG and being held back by your organization. I think it can be argued that KG = TD. I mean one organization lost 5 first round picks and the other drafted Manu with the 57th pick overall. LeBron might be the best of his era and it would be a shame if his potential was held back like KGs.

[Rake2204]

Organization win championship and the Cavs don't have the front office foundation that the Lakers, Spurs, and Heat have. What is the point of going down as another KG and being held back by your organization. I think it can be argued that KG = TD. I mean one organization lost 5 first round picks and the other drafted Manu with the 57th pick overall. LeBron might be the best of his era and it would be a shame if his potential was held back like KGs.I think the Cavaliers wouldn't have made the right moves... until they made the right moves, if that makes sense. And again, I think it could be very well argued that they made the right moves in 2009 and were in position to win an NBA championship. Falling in six games in the Eastern Conference Finals after sweeping rounds one and two doesn't really feel like a complete organizational failure.

LeBron's team didn't win, and had he stayed in Cleveland, I'd bet people would have continued assuring themselves they never would, until they did. Again, it sort of reminds me of the 2004 Pistons, of whom no one really gave a chance at the time, until they won. If they fell to L.A., there's be a smorgasbord of reasons users could map out here about how the Pistons had no go-to scorer, how Ben Wallace was too small, how they didn't get Carmelo, etc. As the situation dictated though (including the Lakers infighting and battling injury) the Pistons won and now we treat them as if they always had what it took, with perfect fitting pieces and whatnot.

Had a couple of shots fallen in that '09 ECF, and Cleveland managed victory in the Finals, we'd be sitting here talking about not only how legendary LeBron James was in those playoffs, but how his supporting cast was so tailor-made to fit his needs and abilities.

Of course, I understand none of that happened so no one says that. But I'm wondering if the point remains? Like, what if Dallas lost game 2 in 2011 because one of the shots they actually did hit, hypothetically bounced out, thus leading to Dirk not earning a ring. There'd be a lot of talk about what that Dallas team wasn't, and very little really wanted to believe they'd be able to win that year... until they did.

I know, it's a losing battle for me to fight in this instance, since reality is not on my side. I was sort of speaking to the larger idea of how our opinions on entire team or player legacies often tend to hinge on moments that sometimes could have gone either way (ex: Ray Allen's triple in 2013).

[The-Legend-24]

I agree op, Bran is a bitch-made fakkit.

Nobody takes his rings seriously anyway, needed the most stacked team of all time, wins in a lockout, and then Ray Allen saves his ass while he was busy laying an egg in the finals AGAIN. :oldlol:

[Flash31]

Organization win championship and the Cavs don't have the front office foundation that the Lakers, Spurs, and Heat have. What is the point of going down as another KG and being held back by your organization. I think it can be argued that KG = TD. I mean one organization lost 5 first round picks and the other drafted Manu with the 57th pick overall. LeBron might be the best of his era and it would be a shame if his potential was held back like KGs.


Winning changes Everything regardless of how good teammates are and whats considered "Fair","Right".

What's Kobe Bryant without rings---
What's Jordan without Rings----
What's Magic and Kareem without Rings--

What's Barkley,Malone,Stockton with Just One Ring rather than None---


If Dirk didnt win hed be considered a soft,jumpshooting Big
If Karl Malone won hed be considered a Top 10 Goat same with Stockton

As much as people go oh no Stackedz,Cheating,Dream Team but then completely disregard every other goat players teams like they were all of a sudden one man shows with Only good teams rather than

Worthy,Kareem
Pippen,Grant,Rodman
Mchale,Parish,Johnson
Jones,Havlicek,Jones,Cousy
West,Baylor
Shaq
Ginobli,Parker
Dumars,Rodman
Allen,Garnett,Rondo

I mean its like people have been brainwashed and completely believe the medias hype

20 Years from Now,People will go leBron carried te Heat and was GOaT and bring up his avg completely disregarding the team but Now people completely diregard the team and downplay it and hate on it by claiming them GOAT,"Dream Team" all the while saying Heat would lose to any other goat team and nearly every star is better than Wade,Bosh,LeBron

Its like to these people
Pippen>Wade
Grant,Rodman>Bosh
Jordan>LeBron
yet the Bulls were somehow MJ carrying the team and being GOAT with the GOAT team but the Heat are STACKEDZ,Dream Team,Cheat,GOAT yet would lose to every other team and the players are worse like WTF?

Literally Nobody goes Magic has 5 b b but his Team was STACKEDZ,"Dream Team",even though he was paired with one of if not the GOAT C and arguable GOAT
same with Jordan and one of the GOAT Defenders and SF Pippen,Rodman
same with Russell

The media is basically feeding off of the Manufactured Heat Hate they made

Winning is Literally all that matters

Otherwise without rings MJ isnt even CLOsE to Goat
The unquestionable,Clear CUt,GOAT player would always be Wilt period just nowadays with the media and MJs ball slobber no one can come close and history is distorted to fit their view.

[Angel Face]

Cleveland was a shitty franchise? More like Lebron was not a good leader nor a charismatic leader. MJ's team during his rookie team up to 1990 was not so good either. It's basically a superstar surrounded by incapable role players. It was Jordan's leadership and push that made Scottie Pippen the great sidekick and made everyone of his team mates competitive.


Hey look, another insecure Jordan fan.

6/6 in the Finals, 6x FMVP, 5x MVP, 10x Scoring Titles, DPOY, etc... Yup, I better be insecure.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Come on Swish. Give it up :lol

I know your style of posting brah...

[moe94]

It was Jordan's leadership and push that made Scottie Pippen the great sidekick and made everyone of his team mates competitive.
.

:roll:

Christ. What else did Jordan do? How long did it take him to create the universe?


Come on Swish. Give it up :lol

I know your style of posting brah...


He's Angel Face? hahahhahaha oh god

Swish doesn't diss LeBron on the regular unlike this dude. I hope he isn't this dude because that would be creepy.

[JellyBean]

Lebron took this road and in reward, he has gotten a championship ring which is special because unlike the rings of other players (scrub / all time great), it came up with an asterisk. What if he didn't took a shortcut and stayed in Cleveland. Do you think he's still ringless up to this day or he would've gotten a championship ring? How many?

Discuss!

Great question. If he would have stayed in Cleveland, he would have been ringless. Cleveland is not a draw for free agents, so it would have been tough adding players like Ray Allen or Chris Bosh.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

He's Angel Face? hahahhahaha oh god

Swish doesn't diss LeBron on the regular unlike this dude. I hope he isn't this dude because that would be creepy.

I don't have definitive proof, but me and Swish go way back, and this dude's allocation is spot on, just a bit more "extreme".

I'm not hating, but...why the need to post on alts? :confusedshrug:

[Angel Face]

I don't have definitive proof, but me and Swish go way back, and this dude's allocation is exactly the same, just a bit more extreme.

I'm not hating, but...why the need to post on alts? :confusedshrug:

Me Swish? Nah!

[moe94]

I'm not hating, but...why the need to post on alts? :confusedshrug:

muh reputation


:kobe:

[LoneyROY7]

There are no shortcuts.

https://31.media.tumblr.com/f3b41c172b5efa5f7ddb471b93cf7391/tumblr_n32b02axiF1s6fwdro1_500.gif

[LeGOAT]

Is it Lebron's fault he was stuck in shit hole Cleveland with a terrible front office and didn't have a coach like Phil Jackson or players like Shaq or Pippen? Put Kobe in Lebron's situation and he'd book it in 2 years

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Me Swish? Nah!

:coleman:

[moe94]

:coleman:

Sounds like something Swish would say. I'm convinced.

[Flash31]

I don't have definitive proof, but me and Swish go way back, and this dude's allocation is spot on, just a bit more "extreme".

I'm not hating, but...why the need to post on alts? :confusedshrug:


If hes swish,It's clear as why
I mean he was defending MJs dck size and comparing and all
There's really no coming back from that.

So no matter what he posts itll always come back to a guy who quite literally worshipped MJs balls so he can't post anymore.

Either way alt or not,these MJ stans are still basically on his balls--
so not much difference.

[Angel Face]

Looks at some of these quotes MJ ripping his team mates...

[QUOTE]

[Warfan]

[QUOTE=Angel Face]Looks at some of these quotes MJ ripping his team mates...

[B]

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

If hes swish,It's clear as why
I mean he was defending MJs dck size and comparing and all
There's really no coming back from that.

So no matter what he posts itll always come back to a guy who quite literally worshipped MJs balls so he can't post anymore.

Either way alt or not,these MJ stans are still basically on his balls--
so not much difference.

Might be the GOAT unintentional comedy I've seen. Not just from Swish either. A bunch of dopes with a lack of self-awareness comparing their heroes genitalia...as competition...:oldlol:

[JT123]

Looks at some of these quotes MJ ripping his team mates...



I don't think Lebron can say these kind of things to his team mates. Bron will be too scared to do it. He's not a natural Leader unlike MJ. Hell Kobe is a better leader than him.
Blaming others for your failures is what we call leadership? :facepalm
Jordan has brainwashed our youth. :(

[Black Mamba's B]

Honestly who knows.

Bron and company would have a good chance of making it to the finals every year due to the east being mostly garbage.

He may not get dream teamers to join him but he would have a solid team supporting him I'm sure. Would he be able to beat Dirk, Duncan and Durant in the finals with a cast similar or even a cast superior to what he had in cleveland? Who knows. We don't know exactly what his personel would be, not sure how bron would react to the pressure.

I think he could get to the finals but I'm not sure if he'd win a ring

[aj1987]

I agree op, Bran is a bitch-made fakkit.

Nobody takes his rings seriously anyway, needed the most stacked team of all time, wins in a lockout, and then Ray Allen saves his ass while he was busy laying an egg in the finals AGAIN. :oldlol:
Dude, the guy you worship is one of the worst Finals performers of all time.