Steve Nash is the worst MVP ever

[deja vu]

A slightly better scoring version of John Stockton, with far worse defense. And you never heard of Stockton being an MVP candidate.

Nash benefited from a run and gun no-defense system resulting in gaudy inflated stats.

[fpliii]

OT - Stockton is underrated IMO.

[Akrazotile]

Kobe

[Akrazotile]

OT - Stockton is underrated IMO.


Also this.


If people were intelligent to rank players based on who they would take on their team instead of "resume" Stockton would be much higher alltime than he is generally credited as.

[fpliii]

Also this.


If people were intelligent to rank players based on who they would take on their team instead of "resume" Stockton would be much higher alltime than he is generally credited as.
:cheers:

[3peated]

you act as if playing run and gun is easy, lol.

[selrahc]

kobe should have 3 mvps by now

[JohnMax]

I have heard hes one of the best shooters of all time so why didn't he use it to score like Curry?

[deja vu]

Another Basketball Reference warrior.
Are you serious? Forget about stats, Nash didn't deserve any of his MVPs. It's not that he had a team of bums, his teammates were very good actually.

[ralph_i_el]

Are you serious? Forget about stats, Nash didn't deserve any of his MVPs. It's not that he had a team of bums, his teammates were very good actually.

Why don't you check his teammates stats before and after playing with Nash. Especially 3pt%

Nash was the man. Statlines don't do him justice.

[deja vu]

Why don't you check his teammates stats before and after playing with Nash.
Any player would play better with a great PG. Nash with Dallas wasn't even a top 20 player but a year later, he becomes MVP?

[SHAQisGOAT]

He has a case yea... Still being MVP is not for everyone, two times (in a row) at that. It's like being the worst of the best, still amazing. I don't think he should've gotten 2 MVP but prime/peak Nash is underrated plenty of times these days, same for John Stockton.


I have heard hes one of the best shooters of all time so why didn't he use it to score like Curry?

Because he was also dishing out 11 dimes per game :rolleyes: And he was still scoring like 18 ppg on terrific overall efficiency. He is one of the best overall shooters of all-time.


Why don't you check his teammates stats before and after playing with Nash. Especially 3pt%

Nash was the man. Statlines don't do him justice.

This

[Jlamb47]

Possibly the worst but Kobe should of gotten this, his team was horrible

[BrownEye007]

Nash was probably playing in the NBA before OP was even born.

[ralph_i_el]

Any player would play better with a great PG. Nash with Dallas wasn't even a top 20 player but a year later, he becomes MVP?

Maybe he got better :confusedshrug:
or maybe he was just as good then and just wasn't in a situation to take over and flourish.

Nobody starts out as a top 20 player. He was an all star in dallas already. All stars making the jump happens all the time

[T_L_P]

Nash was never the best player in the league (Duncan, Kobe, Shaq, Garnett, LeBron, Dirk were all better).

But it can definitely be argued that he was the most valuable player at times. I personally have no problem with the '05 award. I can't really think of anyone more deserving.

[ArbitraryWater]

Well he's the worst TWO TIME MVP yeah...

But just MVP Winner?

Players like: Cousy, Unseld, Reed, Cowens, McAdoo, Walton, Iverson and Rose won the Award... all once by the way.

For me the "lower tier" of MVP Winners. And all could be placed BELOW Nash All-Time.

[deja vu]

Nash was probably playing in the NBA before OP was even born.
January 2014. :lol

I've been an NBA fan since the Bird-Magic era. But why are you so butthurt?

[Bob Dole]

Also this.


If people were intelligent to rank players based on who they would take on their team instead of "resume" Stockton would be much higher alltime than he is generally credited as.

Actually you have it backwards. Stockton routinely was outplayed by other pointguards and not better than kevin johnson, penny hardaway, and tim hardaway many years. His longevity is what has him ranked so high.

[ImKobe]

D Rose's MVP was much worse, imo. Rose isn't half the player a prime Nash was.

[ralph_i_el]

January 2014. :lol

I've been an NBA fan since the Bird-Magic era. But why are you so butthurt?

yeah well i've been a fan since the mayans were playing with no hands come at me bruh

[Bob Dole]

kobe should have 3 mvps by now

No, he's lucky to have the one he got honestly.

[deja vu]

He made his teammates alot better
I agree that he did make his teammates better but I don't think it's enough to win MVP. He plays no defense and IMHO the D'antoni system was a huge factor in his jump to MVP status.

[jlip]

The Suns won because of their offense. Their team defense was average at best. Nash was easily the most valuable player to the aspect of the team that caused them to win games.

[ImKobe]

No, he's lucky to have the one he got honestly.

He deserved it in 08. Had a better record than CP3 & was already on top of the West before the Gasol trade & averaged the same numbers he did with Pau. Kobe actually led his team to the Finals while CP3 got bounced in the semis. The same team CP3 lost to in 7 games(with Game 7 being on the Hornets' home floor), Kobe wrecked them in 5. Parker outplayed CP3 in that series, so they voted for the right guy.

MVP isn't just a stats reward. Kobe led a team with Kwame Brown as a starter to the top of the West & then we got Pau & we still won at the same pace. Anyone that watched the NBA in 08 knows that Kobe deserved it.

[NumberSix]

Derrick Rose

[Bob Dole]

He deserved it in 08. Had a better record than CP3 & was already on top of the West before the Gasol trade & averaged the same numbers he did with Pau. Kobe actually led his team to the Finals while CP3 got bounced in the semis. The same team CP3 lost to in 7 games(with Game 7 being on the Hornets' home floor), Kobe wrecked them in 5. Parker outplayed CP3 in that series, so they voted for the right guy.

MVP isn't just a stats reward. Kobe led a team with Kwame Brown as a starter to the top of the West & then we got Pau & we still won at the same pace. Anyone that watched the NBA in 08 knows that Kobe deserved it.

Thats the only season that he even has an argument, and I still think paul was more impactful that year.

Don't bring up playoffs to discuss a regular season award. Makes you sound dumb.

[jzek]

And you never heard of Stockton being an MVP candidate.

'cos he played in the Jordan era.

[kshutts1]

I don't consider this an end-all, be-all way to look at players, much less MVPs... but if Nash was 9/10 on offense, he was a 2/10 on D. Hardly "better" than other two-way players. Bonus points obviously need to be given for being "exceptional" rather than "great" or "good" on O, as it's harder to go from a 8 to a 9 than it is a 5 to a 6... but still... there should be some logic/thought that goes into MVPs and recognizes that Nash was clearly a plus on O but a MINUS on D. How can the most valuable player be a minus in one half of the game?

Never understood that.

One poster, however, mentioned "MVP of the league", in which case Nash has/had a serious case.. and likely was given the LMVP correctly. So if the award is a LMVP as opposed to MVP of his team... then sure.

[BrownEye007]

January 2014. :lol

I've been an NBA fan since the Bird-Magic era. But why are you so butthurt?
:applause: The date that I joined this board obviously matters. But I'm not butthurt just pointing out that you haven't been alive long enough to have a legit opinion on weather Steve Nash deserved his mvp's.

[ArbitraryWater]

He deserved it in 08. Had a better record than CP3 & was already on top of the West before the Gasol trade & averaged the same numbers he did with Pau. Kobe actually led his team to the Finals while CP3 got bounced in the semis. The same team CP3 lost to in 7 games(with Game 7 being on the Hornets' home floor), Kobe wrecked them in 5. Parker outplayed CP3 in that series, so they voted for the right guy.

MVP isn't just a stats reward. Kobe led a team with Kwame Brown as a starter to the top of the West & then we got Pau & we still won at the same pace. Anyone that watched the NBA in 08 knows that Kobe deserved it.

Like I said, Kobe 2008 is probably his best version... argued this on Twitter multiple times, the other guy said it was 2003 Kobe..

[AintNoSunshine]

What are you talking about? He was surgical the way he ran that offense.

Definitely more worthy and better than Rose.

[turnaroundJ]

I don't consider this an end-all, be-all way to look at players, much less MVPs... but if Nash was 9/10 on offense, he was a 2/10 on D. Hardly "better" than other two-way players. Bonus points obviously need to be given for being "exceptional" rather than "great" or "good" on O, as it's harder to go from a 8 to a 9 than it is a 5 to a 6... but still... there should be some logic/thought that goes into MVPs and recognizes that Nash was clearly a plus on O but a MINUS on D. How can the most valuable player be a minus in one half of the game?

Never understood that.

One poster, however, mentioned "MVP of the league", in which case Nash has/had a serious case.. and likely was given the LMVP correctly. So if the award is a LMVP as opposed to MVP of his team... then sure.

So you'd take a guy who was slightly above average on offense and defense over him?

This is a really terrible, flawed way of comparing players. Defense is "half the game" but it's not how you judge players and their greatness. This goes for other players whom people use the "defense/offense is half the game" argument on when trying to diminish them, like Dirk, Bill Russell, Barkley, etc. There are intangibles and other things that go beyond offense/defense totals, like actual impact in basketball games. And Nash sure did have a ton of impact.

[ImKobe]

Thats the only season that he even has an argument, and I still think paul was more impactful that year.

Don't bring up playoffs to discuss a regular season award. Makes you sound dumb.

Why? It proves my point.

You only look at stats & disregard the fact that Kobe led a team with Kwame Brown as a starter to the top of the Conference before the Pau Gasol trade.

We all know Kobe was the better player & he was the best player in the world in 08 after having to carry the star-studded 08 Olympics squad to a gold medal in that game against Spain. It was clear as day that the best player in the world deserved the MVP after leading his team to the top of the Western Conference.

[ImKobe]

Like I said, Kobe 2008 is probably his best version... argued this on Twitter multiple times, the other guy said it was 2003 Kobe..

Statistically, 03 & 06 Kobe was better. As an all-around player, 08 Kobe was as good as it got. I thought it was his 2nd best defensive season after 01. He also looked his best athletically.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymWh-b7e5NU

watch this shit at 1:18, he crosses Kirilenko, pump fake through 2 defenders & passes it to himself off the backboard & dunks that shit

god damn I miss that man

[tpols]

I don't consider this an end-all, be-all way to look at players, much less MVPs... but if Nash was 9/10 on offense, he was a 2/10 on D. Hardly "better" than other two-way players. Bonus points obviously need to be given for being "exceptional" rather than "great" or "good" on O, as it's harder to go from a 8 to a 9 than it is a 5 to a 6... but still... there should be some logic/thought that goes into MVPs and recognizes that Nash was clearly a plus on O but a MINUS on D. How can the most valuable player be a minus in one half of the game?

Never understood that.

One poster, however, mentioned "MVP of the league", in which case Nash has/had a serious case.. and likely was given the LMVP correctly. So if the award is a LMVP as opposed to MVP of his team... then sure.

Because his team was all offense.. thats how they won and what their style was. They beat 60+ teams playing little defense and picking teams apart offensively by an even larger amount. And Steve Nash was the main reason for it.

[aboss4real24]

nash trash

[jlip]

And you never heard of Stockton being an MVP candidate.



'cos he played in the Jordan era.

:facepalm

Stockton never finished higher than 7th in MVP voting. Even if you remove MJ, Stockton never came close to winning an MVP. Jordan had nothing to do with him not being an MVP candidate.

[ImKobe]

:facepalm

Stockton never finished higher than 7th in MVP voting. Even if you remove MJ, Stockton never came close to winning an MVP. Jordan had nothing to do with him not being an MVP candidate.

It had more to do with Stockton having Malone on his team, who won an MVP in 97 & 99.

[game3524]

No, that title belongs to Derrick Rose.

Nash wasn't my first choice for MVP in 2005 and 2006( Shaq should have won in 2005, and Kobe or Lebron should have won in 2006). But the Suns were historically good on offense and that was due to Nash. Rose was far worse seeing how the Bulls won due to their defense and rebounding. Dwight was a far better choice IMO.

[game3524]

Thats the only season that he even has an argument, and I still think paul was more impactful that year.

Don't bring up playoffs to discuss a regular season award. Makes you sound dumb.

Nah, Kobe had a legit case in 2006. That team overachieved big time by winning 45 games.

[jlip]

It had more to do with Stockton having Malone on his team, who won an MVP in 97 & 99.

I know that. I was simply responding to jzek who is basically one of these obsessive Jordan worshipers who thinks that anytime someone didn't win an award or whatever while MJ played, it's solely because of MJ being there. No other factors played a role whatsoever in their minds.

[Solefade]

05 Nash deserved his MVP as much as any other MVP...06 nash was questionable

[ArbitraryWater]

Statistically, 03 & 06 Kobe was better. As an all-around player, 08 Kobe was as good as it got. I thought it was his 2nd best defensive season after 01. He also looked his best athletically.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymWh-b7e5NU

watch this shit at 1:18, he crosses Kirilenko, pump fake through 2 defenders & passes it to himself off the backboard & dunks that shit

god damn I miss that man

Can't watch the Video here... German Problems (GEMA)

But I know the scene you're talking about... that was sick.

Damn I miss out on lots of great vids smh


BTW, 2008 Kobe was also 5x better in the playoffs...

[mr.big35]

no his not. steve nash was one of the best mvps

[AirFederer]

I am sure OP wanted Kobe to get it


:facepalm

[kentatm]

Any player would play better with a great PG. Nash with Dallas wasn't even a top 20 player but a year later, he becomes MVP?


MVP doesn't really mean you are the best player in the league brah.

[Bigsmoke]

The bulls had the best record in 2011 with Noah and Boozer missing a lot of games between the both of them.

How many did Noah and Boozer miss this and last year?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Yeah

One of the greatest playmakers (and shooters) of all time, but to say his impact exceeded Shaq's in 2005 and Kobe/Lebron's (who BOTH made the playoffs) in 2006? Nah. I'm with those that feel dude is the worst MVP ever. :confusedshrug:

[Pointguard]

Well he's the worst TWO TIME MVP yeah...

But just MVP Winner?

Players like: Cousy, Unseld, Reed, Cowens, McAdoo, Walton, Iverson and Rose won the Award... all once by the way.

For me the "lower tier" of MVP Winners. And all could be placed BELOW Nash All-Time.
McAdoo and Walton were the best players in the game when they won. They were complete monsters.

Unsold would be very hard to understand for you guys so I can see that.

When a guy gets 100 votes and nobody else gets more than five votes y'all really have suck it up that y'all don't know how the system works. Other words your opinion is only good for your imagination and not the real world.

[FLDFSU]

As a Rose hater:

Rose's MVP>>>>>>>>>>Nash 2x MVP.

And then Nash comes out and admits that he is just here to collect a check. This jacka@@ :facepalm

[secund2nun]

Rose, Iverson, and Kobe were worse.

[ArbitraryWater]

McAdoo and Walton were the best players in the game when they won. They were complete monsters.

Unsold would be very hard to understand for you guys so I can see that.

When a guy gets 100 votes and nobody else gets more than five votes y'all really have suck it up that y'all don't know how the system works. Other words your opinion is only good for your imagination and not the real world.

I was totally aware of that with McAdoo and Walton, but I though we'd be talking historically...

[ForeverHeat]

http://www.basketball-memes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/derrick-rose-meme-2-300x191.jpg

[Solefade]

the difference between rose and nash is that, rose's team kept the #1 seed in the east without him.

the year before nash joined the exact same squad only had 20 wins, after he joins they get 60 :confusedshrug:

[FLDFSU]

05 Nash deserved his MVP as much as any other MVP...06 nash was questionable

Shaq left the Lakers and they fall apart.
Shaq joins the Heat and the Heat are contenders.

Nash left the Mavs and they get better.
Nash joins the Suns and they are contenders.

Shaq>Nash.

[Genaro]

I wouldn't pick Nash in any of those years (Shaq in 05 and Kobe in 06) but he's not the worst of all time. Rose is.

The problem with Nash MVP's is that the league was in a bad situation regarding superstars: Shaq and Duncan weren't the same, KG and Kobe had bad teams, Lebron, Melo and Wade were too young.
So the players who were playing at their highest level and had great records were Nash and Dirk.

[Solefade]

why do kobe fans use 06 kobe > nash for mvp and then when people say 08 cp3 > kobe for mvp they're like "it's cus his record"...goddamn contradicting themselves and they don't even know it

[Solefade]

Shaq left the Lakers and they fall apart.
Shaq joins the Heat and the Heat are contenders.

Nash left the Mavs and they get better.
Nash joins the Suns and they are contenders.

Shaq>Nash.


Heat were a 40 win team and #4 seed in the east before Shaq joined :confusedshrug:

Nash turned a 20 win team into 60 and #1 seed in the west and raise everyone else's PPG averages :confusedshrug:

not much of an argument there for me IMO

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

why do kobe fans use 06 kobe > nash for mvp and then when people say 08 cp3 > kobe for mvp they're like "it's cus his record"...goddamn contradicting themselves and they don't even know it

Not to speak for "Kobe fans", but IMO, it's because they (Kobe and Paul) were sooo close, impact wise, their team records were the peripheral "tie break" ...

:confusedshrug:

[Solefade]

Not to speak for "Kobe fans", but IMO, it's because they (Kobe and Paul) were sooo close, impact wise, their team records were the peripheral "tie break" ...

:confusedshrug:


can't tell if you're being sarcastic lol

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Heat were a 40 win team and #4 seed in the east before Shaq joined :confusedshrug:

Nash turned a 20 win team into 60 and #1 seed in the west and raise everyone else's PPG averages :confusedshrug:

not much of an argument there for me IMO

Nah, that has more to do with Phoenix' core being banged up.

Marbury (missed 34 games), Amare (missed 29 games), Penny (missed practically the entire year) never really played together.


can't tell if you're being sarcastic lol

Not sure I follow ...

[westsideozzie]

"We all know the reason they picked Nash"

[Solefade]

Nah, that has more to do with Phoenix' core being banged up.

Marbury (missed 34 games), Amare (missed 29 games), Penny (missed practically the entire year) never really played together.



Not sure I follow ...


meh regardless Nash still deserves it more, their 03 season together wasn't that great either even though Amare was still a rookie but marbury was healthy.

[FLDFSU]

Heat were a 40 win team and #4 seed in the east before Shaq joined :confusedshrug:

Nash turned a 20 win team into 60 and #1 seed in the west and raise everyone else's PPG averages :confusedshrug:

not much of an argument there for me IMO

Lakers lose Shaq=11th place in the West with 34 wins (56 wins prior)
Mavs lose Nash=4th place in the West with 58 wins (52 wins prior)

Shaq=more VALUABLE than Nash :confusedshrug:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

meh regardless Nash still deserves it more

How? All objective measures say otherwise :confusedshrug:

Phoenix also made the playoffs in 2003.

[Solefade]

How? All objective measures say otherwise :confusedshrug:

Phoenix also made the playoffs in 2003.


for shaq over nash?

[Solefade]

Lakers lose Shaq=11th place in the West with 34 wins (56 wins prior)
Mavs lose Nash=4th place in the West with 58 wins (52 wins prior)

Shaq=more VALUABLE than Nash :confusedshrug:


Mavs were still stacked in 05 and Wade made a huge jump that year also.. :confusedshrug:

shaq def has a case but you make it sound like shaq clearly was the mvp which is asanine... nash turning a lottery team into a #1 seed in the west with 60+ wins is more impressive

[FLDFSU]

Mavs were still stacked in 05 and Wade made a huge jump that year also.. :confusedshrug:

shaq def has a case but you make it sound like shaq clearly was the mvp which is asanine... nash turning a lottery team into a #1 seed in the west with 60+ wins is more impressive

no, nash was not a horrible choice over shaq. it is just that shaq deserved the mvp award over him.

we should be able to agree that he is the worst mvp of all time tho. it has gotten so bad that people expect more of cp3 and melo than they ever did of nash.

[Mrofir]

For all of those saying that Nash was a product of D'Antoni's system, 2 questions:

1) How do you explain the 2010 Suns run to the WCF with Alvin Gentry as coach and a roster that had no business contending for a championship?

2) Where is the next D'Antoni point guard product? What other all-star point guards has he created with his system?

[IncarceratedBob]

Steve Nash is a bitch

He admitted to only playing basketball for the money, thats pathetic

[NumberSix]

Steve Nash is a bitch

He admitted to only playing basketball for the money, thats pathetic
Yeah, and YOU do YOUR job for the fun of it I'm sure.

[Fudge]

Yeah, and YOU do YOUR job for the fun of it I'm sure.
Get money, fcuk bitches.

[Budadiiii]

Get money, fcuk bitches.
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/6994/11759277345781.jpg

[LONGTIME]

Get money, fcuk bitches.

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/5833/yesgif.gif

[Jameerthefear]

Derrick Rose.

[Mrofir]

Steve Nash is a bitch

He admitted to only playing basketball for the money, thats pathetic


I'd say your comprehension skills are pathetic, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are cherry picking to support your thin argument.

The video in which he acknowledges that the money is important to him is part of a lineup of videos that focus primarily on his love for the game, the mental and emotional toll of not being able to play, and his strong desire to get back on the court. :facepalm

Your use of the word "only" is the part that especially makes me question your comprehension, but again, benefit of the doubt.

[pauk]

Arguably... but he deserved those MVP's.... he may not been the greatest 1on1 playing MVP but this is a team game... and winning the MVP means your game translated to most team success in the regular season afterall, he made those around him better...

[sammichoffate]

MVP is overrated anyways, award hasn't been that good since Shaq's decline and Timmy's/KG's Prime

[Black Mamba's B]

Not the worst no but don't think he deserved those back to back mvps

[pauk]

Not the worst no but don't think he deserved those back to back mvps

Who do you think should have?

In the 1st one he had the best record in the NBA and compared to other top candidates he had also less to work with around him while doing so.... and the other guys who overall produced more than Nash didnt have enough wins, the stuff you do simply has to translate to team success.... that one was super easy....

In the 2nd one Pistons / Spurs had best record, but they had no clear MVP enough to disregard what Nash was doing with less to work with around him yet again and this time performing even better than the previous year....

He made those around him better than anyone those years, it was very easy to see & it was very FUN to see....

[ThePhantomCreep]

Rose was easily worse.

[pinhead]

I preferred him as Diesel.

[G-train]

Nash had a great season in 2005, but Shaq was favorite to win for about 90% of season, then Nash became a media favorite towards the end of the season.
Guess who decides the award that many use to judge players?

[G-train]

Who do you think should have?

In the 1st one he had the best record in the NBA and compared to other top candidates he had also less to work with around him while doing so.... and the other guys who overall produced more than Nash didnt have enough wins, the stuff you do simply has to translate to team success.... that one was super easy....


No way was it easy. You could make a case for Nash, but Shaq was the favorite.

[pinhead]

Nash has won it more than Kobe :roll:

[FKAri]

Nash has won it more than Kobe :roll:

I would hope so :lol . One championed hero ball the other championed team ball.

[qrich]

Are you serious? Forget about stats, Nash didn't deserve any of his MVPs. It's not that he had a team of bums, his teammates were very good actually.

Leading a team with Boris Diaw and Shawn Marion as your PF/C duo to the Western Conference Finals.

Man, anyone can do that. Rick Brunson would have been able to lead them like that as well.

[Lebron23]

His stats were kinda overrated because he played in a run and gun system, and 5 seconds or less offense, but it didn't work in the playoffs because the spurs neutralized them.

[Bigsmoke]

I've seen derrick Rose beat the hell out of my high school basketball team "we both graduated in 07" but..


Nash> Rose

Nash> Iverson also

[raiderfan19]

Who do you think should have?

In the 1st one he had the best record in the NBA and compared to other top candidates he had also less to work with around him while doing so.... and the other guys who overall produced more than Nash didnt have enough wins, the stuff you do simply has to translate to team success.... that one was super easy....

In the 2nd one Pistons / Spurs had best record, but they had no clear MVP enough to disregard what Nash was doing with less to work with around him yet again and this time performing even better than the previous year....

He made those around him better than anyone those years, it was very easy to see & it was very FUN to see....
Dirk either or both years.

Also, did you really just say joe Johnson, amare, Marion and qrich in their primes wasn't much to work with? Really?

[Bosnian Sajo]

White boy stole MVP's from Shaq and Kobe, smh.

[Yankstar]

Lets be honest. If that hoe didn't sue Kobe those 2 MVPs would be his :banghead:

[ImKobe]

Lets be honest. If that hoe didn't sue Kobe those 2 MVPs would be his :banghead:

If that hoe didn't sue Kobe, I wonder how different things would have been overall.

[Nike D'Antoni]

The guy never played defense his whole life, won 2 league MVP over Shaq & Kobe. The biggest joke of a player, and now a joke of a coach.