Waiters vs Beal

[Jlamb47]

Whos having the better season this year?

[ralph_i_el]

Whos having the better season this year?

I haven't watched a ton of Waiters, but this season was promising for Beal even though he had injury troubles. His 3 is absolutely wet. He needs to improve his scoring inside the arc.

[DukeDelonte13]

Beal

PPG APG RPG SPG 3P% FG%
16.9 3.3 3.7 0.9 .416 .410

Waiters

PPG APG RPG SPG 3P% FG%
15.6 3.0 2.8 0.9 .363 .431



They were very close last season and they are very close this season. It's about as much of a toss up as there is IMO. Both will be elite level SG's in the future.

[imdaman99]

Beal

PPG APG RPG SPG 3P% FG%
16.9 3.3 3.7 0.9 .416 .410

:biggums: he shoots better 3s than non 3s :biggums:

that FG% ain't gonna fly

[navy]

Beal

PPG APG RPG SPG 3P% FG%
16.9 3.3 3.7 0.9 .416 .410

Waiters

PPG APG RPG SPG 3P% FG%
15.6 3.0 2.8 0.9 .363 .431



They were very close last season and they are very close this season. It's about as much of a toss up as there is IMO. Both will be elite level SG's in the future.
Elite? No. Serviceable and good? Yes.

[ralph_i_el]

:biggums: he shoots better 3s than non 3s :biggums:

that FG% ain't gonna fly

A lot of his 2 point attempts are desperation jumpers off broken plays near the end of the clock, but yeah I agree his scoring inside the arc is a weakness

[PleezeBelieve]

Waiters has played on average 29 MPG and his stats are equal to Beal who plays 34 MPG

Waiters > Beam like I been saying for two years now ... and its not even close

[PleezeBelieve]

Waiters is the most talented SG since Kobe Bryant. He has handles, footwork, midrange J, 3 point shot, and can defend.

No young SG can match this guy's skill set

[Uncle Drew]

Beal

PPG APG RPG SPG 3P% FG%
16.9 3.3 3.7 0.9 .416 .410

Waiters

PPG APG RPG SPG 3P% FG%
15.6 3.0 2.8 0.9 .363 .431



They were very close last season and they are very close this season. It's about as much of a toss up as there is IMO. Both will be elite level SG's in the future.
Beal plays 35 minutes per game, Dion ''only'' 30. Dion's per 36 numbers are slightly better.

[DukeDelonte13]

Elite? No. Serviceable and good? Yes.


please. There isn't anyone in the league that can stay in front of Waiters and he's only a sophomore.

He was averaging over 22 points on good efficiency when kyrie went down. If he's allowed to run free he's a 20+ ppg SG. That's a lot better than "serviceable" :rolleyes:

[ralph_i_el]

Waiters has played on average 29 MPG and his stats are equal to Beal who plays 34 MPG

Waiters > Beam like I been saying for two years now ... and its not even close

But what position is Waiters going to play? Is he good enough to be the primary ballhandler on a good team? I feel like he's not as good without the ball in his hands which is why he's come off the bench more right? So he can play the point?
Beal is never going to be the alpha dog, but I think he's more valuable as an elite floor spacing off-ball scorer.

It's like the difference between Jamal crawford and Rip Hamilton. They fit better on different teams. Actually a Waiters-Beal backcourt could be really nice. Also in the games I watched Waiters he wasn't really good at finishing at the rim.

[navy]

Waiters is the most talented SG since Kobe Bryant. He has handles, footwork, midrange J, 3 point shot, and can defend.

No young SG can match this guy's skill set
:biggums:

Wade's Rookie stats.


PPG APG RPG SPG 3P% FG%

16.2 4.5 4.0 2.7 .302 .465

Dont make me go the the second year. :facepalm

[DukeDelonte13]

But what position is Waiters going to play? Is he good enough to be the primary ballhandler on a good team? I feel like he's not as good without the ball in his hands which is why he's come off the bench more right? So he can play the point?
Beal is never going to be the alpha dog, but I think he's more valuable as an elite floor spacing off-ball scorer.

It's like the difference between Jamal crawford and Rip Hamilton. They fit better on different teams. Actually a Waiters-Beal backcourt could be really nice.


waiters can play PG, and play it well. He has better vision than Kyrie Irving. He is a very underrated passer.

His biggest weaknesses which he has clearly addressed this season if you watch him play has been his defense and decision making. He's improved upon both tremendously.

He still is not adept at finishing around the basket, and he gets lazy and nonchalant at the FT line. He improved a lot from year 1 to year 2, no reason why i don't think he can improve in those areas as well.

[navy]

please. There isn't anyone in the league that can stay in front of Waiters and he's only a sophomore.

He was averaging over 22 points on good efficiency when kyrie went down. If he's allowed to run free he's a 20+ ppg SG. That's a lot better than "serviceable" :rolleyes:
Small sample size. He had some good games but he is far from efficient. In fact, I think he had some the lowest numbers at the rim for any basket attacker. Why stay in front of a weak driver?

[Jlamb47]

Last year i was thinking Beal was better but after seeing Waiters play when Kyrie was out it seemed like a toss up to me cuz Beal can have his nights as well. I just think Beal plays off ball better then Waiters.

[PleezeBelieve]

Wade is Harden-ish

Waiters is Kobe-ish

Hey I thought Waiters was a version of Wade as well, but the guy's midrange J is much netter than I expected. He can shoot it off the bounce and off sets

Waiters' footwork is also much better than I thought it would ever be. The guy already is shooting the prettiest turn aaround J since Kobe and he'soonly 22.

[DukeDelonte13]

Small sample size. He had some good games but he is far from efficient. In fact, I think he had some the lowest numbers at the rim for any basket attacker. Why stay in front of a weak driver?


He's been dominating games since his rookie year. He's gone off many many times before. What he did with kyrie out is proof that he's at that level where he can be the alpha on the team, run the offense, and do it efficiently.

His efficiency is a knock that has plagued him since his summer league. He's a lot more efficient than people give him credit for. He's no chucker.

And if you think defenders are purposely letting him blow by then i don't really have much else to say to you :oldlol:

[PleezeBelieve]

You dudes just need to eat your crow and mve on. I'm not going to throw back in your face. I just know you dudes sound ridiculous now talking about "why stay in front of a weak driver" :oldlol:

[DukeDelonte13]

Wade is Harden-ish

Waiters is Kobe-ish

Hey I thought Waiters was a version of Wade as well, but the guy's midrange J is much netter than I expected. He can shoot it off the bounce and off sets

Waiters' footwork is also much better than I thought it would ever be. The guy already is shooting the prettiest turn aaround J since Kobe and he'soonly 22.

He's one of the most exciting, fun to root for, and dynamic guards that have came up in a while. He's a gamer through and through. he was no son of an NBA player, he had a rough as hell upbringing. Plays every game like he has the biggest d*ck on the court. I love that confidence.

[JohnMax]

Waiters convinced me he's good in the All Star game. I could tell he was more skilled than Tim Hardaway Jr.

[navy]

Wade is Harden-ish

Waiters is Kobe-ish

Hey I thought Waiters was a version of Wade as well, but the guy's midrange J is much netter than I expected. He can shoot it off the bounce and off sets

Waiters' footwork is also much better than I thought it would ever be. The guy already is shooting the prettiest turn aaround J since Kobe and he'soonly 22.
Wade's midrange is elite. His three point shooting is terrible. In fact Wade had better midrange stats then Waiters as a sophomore and he isnt considered a good shooter.

Footwork is more than a turn around jay. I dont think Ive seen him show the fancy footwork of Wade, Harden, Ginobli, Kobe.

[navy]

You dudes just need to eat your crow and mve on. I'm not going to throw back in your face. I just know you dudes sound ridiculous now talking about "why stay in front of a weak driver" :oldlol:
http://statcenter.blogspot.com/2014/01/driving-to-basket-whos-best.html

He's a weak driver...

Quote from article.
Five of the six lowest on this chart in terms of FG% are quick guards who aren't necessarily known for their strength (except perhaps Dion Waiters, but he has the separate problem of not actually knowing how to play basketball).
:roll:

[PleezeBelieve]

Wade's midrange is elite. His three point shooting is terrible. In fact Wade had better midrange stats then Waiters as a sophomore and he isnt considered a good shooter.

Footwork is more than a turn around jay. I dont think Ive seen him show the fancy footwork of Wade, Harden, Ginobli, Kobe.
Waiters jumper now is better than Wade's has ever been

[navy]

Waiters jumper now is better than Wade's has ever been
Then why is he shooting worse from every range except 3? ,

[Milbuck]

Waiters is the most talented SG since Kobe Bryant.
http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/social_assets/nba/7_18_2013/wade%20laugh.gif















































































































































































































































































































https://theonba.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/dwyane-wade-dooms-heat-in-game-1-f61lmv8g-x-large.jpg

[WallIn]

The main problem with Beal's FG% is that he takes a lot of dumb mid-range jumpers off the dribble, often contested, when the clock is at 12-16 second mark. He needs to sort this out.

From spot up he is as good as anybody in the league, that's why his 3FG% is even higher than overall FG%

[RedBlackAttack]

Don't let PB's trolling derail the thread topic, guys. I think Dion is playing well enough not to be cast aside simply because PB feels like trolling today. He's capable of intelligent discussion, but if he chooses to just make dumb comparisons, my suggestion would be to move on to the next post. Don't allow his trolling to make you hate Waiters.


http://statcenter.blogspot.com/2014/01/driving-to-basket-whos-best.html

He's a weak driver...

That's just crazy. He's not a "weak driver." He still has to learn how to finish consistently with both hands at the basket, but his first step is something that can't be taught and getting to the basket at-will is about more than just scoring. It's also about putting pressure on and breaking down defenses which opens up the floor for your teammates.

Dion is excellent at getting to the basket. Here are his highlights from last night's game:


Dion Waiters 26 Points Full Highlights (4/2/2014) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcD7bZUlSDI)

Ask Orlando if he is a "weak driver."

Along with his needing to improve as a finisher at the rim, he gets very few calls from officials when there is contact. It's partly his own fault, because he has a tendency to yell every time he drives and officials don't like that. But, it's also just a young player thing... second year guys don't get the calls that vets do.

With as aggressively as he plays and as much as he attacks the basket, 3 FTAs a game is sort of a joke.


Small sample size. He had some good games but he is far from efficient.

Dion has averaged a pretty insane 22.4 points on 46% shooting to go along with 5 assists in the last nine games, which is why he's gotten a little shine recently.

But he has actually been very efficient for a second year guard for a good portion of this season. After all the issues with this team to start the season and all of the rumors about his possibly being traded, Dion really started to get to work in January.

Since Jan. 28, he is putting up 18 points per game on 47% shooting in just 30 minutes a night. That is heavy, efficient production for a guard and he's done it for over half the season. Really, the only thing that changed when Kyrie went down was that his minutes increased. Outside of that, he had been playing excellent basketball long before then.

[RedBlackAttack]

Beal is never going to be the alpha dog, but I think he's more valuable as an elite floor spacing off-ball scorer.

It's like the difference between Jamal crawford and Rip Hamilton. They fit better on different teams. Actually a Waiters-Beal backcourt could be really nice. Also in the games I watched Waiters he wasn't really good at finishing at the rim.
That's an interesting take and I sort of agree to a point. So far, Beal is what I thought he'd be as a spot-up shooter... very good. I've been a little let down by his ability (or lack thereof) to break down defenses off the dribble and playmake for others. But, he's an excellent compliment to what John Wall brings to the table and that's the most important thing for the Wiz.

I would say that Waiters is almost his exact opposite, but Dion's improvement as a spot-up shooter -- even out beyond the three-point line -- has been fast. He's still not on Beal's level as an outside shooter, but defenses have to account for him out there much more now than they did a year ago.

I'll also give Beal points for being over a year younger than Dion.


Right now, they're very close as they were in their rookie seasons. It seems that a narrative was beginning to shake out at the start of the season that Beal was the far superior player, but since the first couple months of the season, Beal's production has slowly gone down and Dion's has quickly risen up.

I feel like there is a tendency for people just to say that Beal is better just "because"... But when you look at the numbers, they don't really support that stance.

I'd say both the Wiz and Cavs are in a good place with their backcourt, either way you look at it. At this point, it's more of a personal preference than a clear choice.

[Chrono90]

Waiters has been overshadowed by Kyrie all year. He didn't really get on the radar until Kyrie got hurt recently.

Wizards use Beal a lot more than Cavs use Waiters. I say number wise and season wise I can't deny numbers and give it to Beal.


But individual talent wise, i give it to Waiters.

[RedBlackAttack]

Waiters has been overshadowed by Kyrie all year. He didn't really get on the radar until Kyrie got hurt recently.

Wizards use Beal a lot more than Cavs use Waiters. I say number wise and season wise I can't deny numbers and give it to Beal.


But individual talent wise, i give it to Waiters.
The numbers are actually incredibly close, as has been pointed out.

Dion Waiters
15.6 points on 43.1% FG, 36.3% 3pt, 68.3% FT
3.0 assists
2.6 rebounds
0.9 steals
50.4 TS%
47.6 eFG%
in 29.5 minutes per night


Bradley Beal
16.9 points on 41.0% FG, 41.6% 3pt, 81.2% FT
3.3 assists
3.0 rebounds
0.9 steals
50.1 TS%
47.1 eFG%
in 34.5 minutes per night


Even their advanced statistics are almost exactly the same, despite Dion's poor free throw shooting (which has been really his only negative in the last three months).

[DukeDelonte13]

The numbers are actually incredibly close, as has been pointed out.

Dion Waiters
15.6 points on 43.1% FG, 36.3% 3pt, 68.3% FT
3.0 assists
2.6 rebounds
0.9 steals
50.4 TS%
47.6 eFG%
in 29.5 minutes per night


Bradley Beal
16.9 points on 41.0% FG, 41.6% 3pt, 81.2% FT
3.3 assists
3.0 rebounds
0.9 steals
50.1 TS%
47.1 eFG%
in 34.5 minutes per night


Even their advanced statistics are almost exactly the same, despite Dion's poor free throw shooting (which has been really his only negative in the last three months).


It's amazing how often Dion was called Bust even though his numbers always were extremely similar to beal's.

[RedBlackAttack]

It's amazing how often Dion was called Bust even though his numbers always were extremely similar to beal's.
I would say it was the PB effect, but that went beyond ISH. Guys like Bill Simmons still act like he's a bust.

I think it is a Cavaliers thing. People just like to believe that whoever the Cavs take is a bust, regardless of the reality.

[tontoz]

Beal has been disappointing this year. Last year he took some bad falls after trying to dunk on the wrong guys (Josh Smith, Ibaka, etc) so this year he has pretty much been avoiding the lane.

When he gets run off the line he just takes a dribble or two and launches a long 2. When a guy is running you off the 3 point line that is the perfect time to drive but he just hasn't been doing it and is shooting mid-30s on his long 2s.

Adding to the problem, if not causing it, is that the coaches are actively encouraging him (and everyone else) to shoot long 2s, the exact shots that the defense wants them to take. The Wizards lead the league in long 2 attempts.

:banghead:

[The Magics]

I just wish Billy Donovan would have offered enough bitches/coke/$, etc for Beal to stay at UF for four years. Beal on this year's Gators team would have been ridiculous. NCAA 3-peat.

[Chrono90]

The numbers are actually incredibly close, as has been pointed out.

Dion Waiters
15.6 points on 43.1% FG, 36.3% 3pt, 68.3% FT
3.0 assists
2.6 rebounds
0.9 steals
50.4 TS%
47.6 eFG%
in 29.5 minutes per night


Bradley Beal
16.9 points on 41.0% FG, 41.6% 3pt, 81.2% FT
3.3 assists
3.0 rebounds
0.9 steals
50.1 TS%
47.1 eFG%
in 34.5 minutes per night


Even their advanced statistics are almost exactly the same, despite Dion's poor free throw shooting (which has been really his only negative in the last three months).

I guess this is different for everyone but I wouldn't call those numbers incredibly close. 1.3 more points with 5% better in three's and 13% better in FT%.

I never said Beal wins by a landslide either. Just saying according to numbers, it's Beal.

[RedBlackAttack]

I guess this is different for everyone but I wouldn't call those numbers incredibly close. 1.3 more points with 5% better in three's and 13% better in FT%.

I never said Beal wins by a landslide either. Just saying according to numbers, it's Beal.
Not sure I agree with you, there.

It would be one thing if they were playing the same number of minutes. 1.3 more points per game while playing five minutes more per night is pretty damn identical production.

And, while Beal does have a higher 3pt% and FT% (as you would expect), Waiters' 2.1% lead in FG% (which takes into account 3PT%) is significant. Then, there are the advanced statistics like TS% (which takes into account FT% and 3PT%) and eFG%, all of which favor Waiters.

The statistics actually show Waiters is slightly more efficient, overall. Rebounding, assists and steals are essentially a wash.

[Clyde]

The answer is Beal.

[tontoz]

Beal's TS is 50.1%. Waiter's is 50.4%. They have both been inefficient, just in different ways.

[JohnFreeman]

Both are the future of this league

[Marlo_Stanfield]

Dion GOATers>Chuckrie Irving.
that being said he chucks quite a bit himself sometimes:facepalm

[B-Easy8]

Beal with it.

[RedBlackAttack]

Beal's TS is 50.1%. Waiter's is 50.4%. They have both been inefficient, just in different ways.
Dion's inexplicable free throw shooting woes are really hurting him, here. Odd, because he was a 75% FT shooter as a rookie. That's not great, but certainly not bad. He has no business shooting under 70% for a season, considering his shooting stroke pretty much everywhere else on the floor has improved.

Neither are exactly terrible in terms of TS% for young SGs, though.

[tontoz]

Dion's inexplicable free throw shooting woes are really hurting him, here. Odd, because he was a 75% FT shooter as a rookie. That's not great, but certainly not bad. He has no business shooting under 70% for a season, considering his shooting stroke pretty much everywhere else on the floor has improved.

Neither are exactly terrible in terms of TS% for young SGs, though.


Realistically they should get better but both guys have gotten a lot of minutes the last two seasons. Third year is frequently a breakout year so time will tell.

Ross and Hardaway are both over 55%.