With Mitch Richmond making the HOF ...

[L.Kizzle]

This basically means Tracy McGrady is a lock, right?

I liked 'Rock' back in the 90s' he was a great player. But as the man, he had no playoff success, less than McGrady actually (as the man.) As the man, his Kings only made the playoffs once, a first round exit. He made the playoffs twice with the Warriors as their third best player with two second round showings and won a title with the Lakers as a seat warmer.

Compared to T-Mac. As the man with the Magic and Rockets, he led them to the playoffs six years, all first round exits. Was the second best player on a one and out Raptors team, a role player for a one round Hawks team a few years back like Mitch, a seat warmer for a Finals losing Spurs team last year.

Their accolades are somewhat similar.

-Both have three All-NBA 2nd/Two All NBA 3rd team selections. Only difference is Mac has two additional 1st team selections.
-7 All-Star teams for Tracy / 6 for Richmond
-Rich has a rookie of the year and All-Star MVP / McGrady has most improved player and two scoring titles.
-Mac peaked higher in points, assist, rebounds, steals and blocks
-Rock peaked higher in FG%, FT% and 3PT%

[navy]

Sounds like the basketball hall of fame is weak...

TMac should get in then.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Can't believe Sidney Moncrief isn't already in :facepalm :facepalm Jo Jo White and Bobby Jones too.

[D.J.]

Mitch Richmond first 10 seasons
23.1 PPG
4.2 RPG
3.9 APG
46.4% shooting
38.5% from downtown


I can't think of many guys who averaged 23/4/4 on 46/39/85 their first 10 years and not be HOF'ers. It's not his fault he was on shitty teams. Hell Mitch wasn't even an All-Star until 1993. He had seasons of 22/6/4, 24/6/3, and 23/5/4 without making the All-Star team. He most definitely deserves to be in the HOF.


As far as T-Mac, he had an 8 year stretch averaging 26/6/5 where had 2 scoring titles. 8 and 10 year stretches are not small stretches. Those are basically entire careers or at the very least, the majority of careers.


Guy #1 consistently averaged 22-23 PPG for the first 10 seasons of his career and was never under 20 once in that span. Guy #2 averaged 26 for 8 seasons and peaked at 32. They're both HOF'ers and both should have/be first ballot as well. You don't see that type of consistency often, even from guys already in the HOF.

[Lebron23]

These guys are also going to be in the hall of fame.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6yiqxA3NA1rqd88qo1_400.jpg

[L.Kizzle]

These guys are also going to be in the hall of fame.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6yiqxA3NA1rqd88qo1_400.jpg
Grant Hill = yes.
Penny = no.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Mitch Richmond first 10 seasons
23.1 PPG
4.2 RPG
3.9 APG
46.4% shooting
38.5% from downtown


I can't think of many guys who averaged 23/4/4 on 46/39/85 their first 10 years and not be HOF'ers. It's not his fault he was on shitty teams. Hell Mitch wasn't even an All-Star until 1993. He had seasons of 22/6/4, 24/6/3, and 23/5/4 without making the All-Star team. He most definitely deserves to be in the HOF.


As far as T-Mac, he had an 8 year stretch averaging 26/6/5 where had 2 scoring titles. 8 and 10 year stretches are not small stretches. Those are basically entire careers or at the very least, the majority of careers.


Guy #1 consistently averaged 22-23 PPG for the first 10 seasons of his career and was never under 20 once in that span. Guy #2 averaged 26 for 8 seasons and peaked at 32. They're both HOF'ers and both should have/be first ballot as well. You don't see that type of consistency often, even from guys already in the HOF.


A bit of topic again, and Rock is really underrated/overlooked, but looking at Sidney Moncrief's career:

- 6 prime regular-seasons averaging 19.8/5.7/4.4/1.5/0.4 on .595 TS%, in 35.8 MPG

- 9 combined Playoff runs, with 79 games, putting up 17.7/5.4/3.8/1.2/0.4 on .575 TS% in 37.4 MPG, counting injured years

- 2 DPOYs as a guard in a really good bigmen era

- 4th in MVP voting once, top10 5 times

- 4x all-defensive 1st, with Coop, DJ, Bobby Jones or Cheeks in the league

- Once all-nba 1st, with Magic, Gervin or Isiah in the league

- Arguably outplayed MJ - on both ends - in a Playoff series, the only SG who can even begin to make that claim

- 5 time all-star

- Best averages of 22.5/5.8/3.9/1.5/0.3 on .602 TS%, or 21.7/5.4/5.2/1.6/0.5 on .565 TS%, in the regular season

- Over the course of 8 games in the 1985 post-season, even injured, put up 23.0/4.3/5.0/0.6/0.5 on .697 TS% :eek:

- Once led the Bucks in points, rebounds and assists, for a whole season

- Five 50W seasons while being the best player on the team, once 59W, in arguably the GOAT conference, GOAT era

- Made the ECF 3 times as the best player, and would've most likely been to the Finals in a weaker era on a weaker conference, with the same team

- Great overall player, one of the best two way player all-time, pretty good efficient scorer, good rebounder and good passer, impactful with good intangibles, hard worker, great defensive player, arguably the best defensive guard ever, was locking down the best scoring guards time and time again, and, with his offense, actually outplaying them most of the time:
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/threadrate.php

Thing that really hurts his case is his longevity, because of injuries, which is a shame, but still all of that above is more than enough, and not too "bad" with also 767 games played, more than 10000 points scored, 93 post-season games with almost 1500 points scored, and so on, plus NCAA AP All-America 1st, good college career... looking at players already elected, he should been in by now, long overdue, and the same goes for Jo Jo White or Bobby Jones.

[L.Kizzle]

A bit of topic again, and Rock is really underrated/overlooked, but looking at Sidney Moncrief's career:

- 6 prime regular-seasons averaging 19.8/5.7/4.4/1.5/0.4 on .595 TS%, in 35.8 MPG

- 9 combined Playoff runs, with 79 games, putting up 17.7/5.4/3.8/1.2/0.4 on .575 TS% in 37.4 MPG, counting injured years

- 2 DPOYs as a guard in a really good bigmen era

- 4th in MVP voting once, top10 5 times

- 4x all-defensive 1st, with Coop, DJ, Bobby Jones or Cheeks in the league

- Once all-nba 1st, with Magic, Gervin or Isiah in the league

- Arguably outplayed MJ - on both ends - in a Playoff series, the only SG who can even begin to make that claim

- 5 time all-star

- Best averages of 22.5/5.8/3.9/1.5/0.3 on .602 TS%, or 21.7/5.4/5.2/1.6/0.5 on .565 TS%, in the regular season

- Over the course of 8 games in the 1985 post-season, even injured, put up 23.0/4.3/5.0/0.6/0.5 on .697 TS% :eek:

- Once led the Bucks in points, rebounds and assists, for a whole season

- Five 50W seasons while being the best player on the team, once 59W, in arguably the GOAT conference, GOAT era

- Made the ECF 3 times as the best player, and would've most likely been to the Finals in a weaker era on a weaker conference, with the same team

- Great overall player, one of the best two way player all-time, pretty good efficient scorer, good rebounder and good passer, impactful with good intangibles, hard worker, great defensive player, arguably the best defensive guard ever, was locking down the best scoring guards time and time again, and, with his offense, actually outplaying them most of the time:
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/threadrate.php

Thing that really hurts his case is his longevity, because of injuries, which is a shame, but still all of that above is more than enough, and not too "bad" with also 767 games played, more than 10000 points scored, 93 post-season games with almost 1500 points scored, and so on, plus NCAA AP All-America 1st, good college career... looking at players already elected, he should been in by now, long overdue, and the same goes for Jo Jo White or Bobby Jones.
I believe Sid will make it in the next 5 seasons or so. The past few years, we had AD, King, Gilmore all making the Hall. Some of his 80s contemporaries.

[Im Still Ballin]

Chris Webber

[Fawker]

If Zo makes it on the first, Mitch is a couple ballots late.

[Reggie43]

definitely opens the door for similar level players like Glen Rice, Steve Smith, Michael Finley etc to reach the hall of fame

[bdreason]

Basketball HoF is the easiest of all major sports halls to get into. T-Mac will get in.

[ABfor3]

definitely opens the door for similar level players like Glen Rice, Steve Smith, Michael Finley etc to reach the hall of fame


:biggums:

[Reggie43]

:biggums:

Finley had multiple 20+ppg seasons on much better teams. Not saying he was better but they definitely are on the same level skills/talentwise and also having similar peak/prime numbers.

[Shep]

Give me Shareef Abdur-Rahim's career over his

[raiderfan19]

Finley had multiple 20+ppg seasons on much better teams. Not saying he was better but they definitely are on the same level skills/talentwise and also having similar peak/prime numbers.
You do realize fin only avged 20 on 2 of the good mavs teams right? I know he's used all the time in the dirk played with these great suPerstars arguments, but fins last 20 ppg year was 2002 which was the second 50 win mavs team and he was the 3rd best player. Then he had 2 more 19 ppg years, one 15 ppg year and was done. Love fin, but he's not a hofer.

[Reggie43]

You do realize fin only avged 20 on 2 of the good mavs teams right? I know he's used all the time in the dirk played with these great suPerstars arguments, but fins last 20 ppg year was 2002 which was the second 50 win mavs team and he was the 3rd best player. Then he had 2 more 19 ppg years, one 15 ppg year and was done. Love fin, but he's not a hofer.

But was he on the same level as Richmond? In my opinion they were so atleast he has a sliver of hope seeing Richmond got in with inflated stats playing on poor teams and also not having consistent regular season and playoff success

[kc16]

A bit of topic again, and Rock is really underrated/overlooked, but looking at Sidney Moncrief's career:

- 6 prime regular-seasons averaging 19.8/5.7/4.4/1.5/0.4 on .595 TS%, in 35.8 MPG

- 9 combined Playoff runs, with 79 games, putting up 17.7/5.4/3.8/1.2/0.4 on .575 TS% in 37.4 MPG, counting injured years

- 2 DPOYs as a guard in a really good bigmen era

- 4th in MVP voting once, top10 5 times

- 4x all-defensive 1st, with Coop, DJ, Bobby Jones or Cheeks in the league

- Once all-nba 1st, with Magic, Gervin or Isiah in the league

- Arguably outplayed MJ - on both ends - in a Playoff series, the only SG who can even begin to make that claim

- 5 time all-star

- Best averages of 22.5/5.8/3.9/1.5/0.3 on .602 TS%, or 21.7/5.4/5.2/1.6/0.5 on .565 TS%, in the regular season

- Over the course of 8 games in the 1985 post-season, even injured, put up 23.0/4.3/5.0/0.6/0.5 on .697 TS% :eek:

- Once led the Bucks in points, rebounds and assists, for a whole season

- Five 50W seasons while being the best player on the team, once 59W, in arguably the GOAT conference, GOAT era

- Made the ECF 3 times as the best player, and would've most likely been to the Finals in a weaker era on a weaker conference, with the same team

- Great overall player, one of the best two way player all-time, pretty good efficient scorer, good rebounder and good passer, impactful with good intangibles, hard worker, great defensive player, arguably the best defensive guard ever, was locking down the best scoring guards time and time again, and, with his offense, actually outplaying them most of the time:
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/threadrate.php

Thing that really hurts his case is his longevity, because of injuries, which is a shame, but still all of that above is more than enough, and not too "bad" with also 767 games played, more than 10000 points scored, 93 post-season games with almost 1500 points scored, and so on, plus NCAA AP All-America 1st, good college career... looking at players already elected, he should been in by now, long overdue, and the same goes for Jo Jo White or Bobby Jones.

Definitely agree, Moncrief was one of the better guards in the 80s but highly overlooked. The dude was no slouch on defense, a very good two way player offensively and defensively.

[Swaggin916]

Mitch could score the ball but wasn't a real impact player most nights. On a championship team, he's a 3rd fiddle guy really with the potential to go off.

[houston]

Mitch is better than Ray Allen and Reggie Miller so of course he should go in