Where would Kobe rank in the 60s

[zoom17]

Would he rank top 10:confusedshrug:

[LAZERUSS]

Would he rank top 10:confusedshrug:

He probably would have had 40+ ppg seasons, but on "Baylor-like" efficiencies.

And, as was posted in another topic, his team success would depend on which teams that he would have played with. He likely would not have won very many, if any, rings, unless he would have played with the Celtics. But then again, he wouldn't have averaged more 25 ppg with those teams, either.

[ABfor3]

There was no perimeter players with his skill set, dude would average 40+ easily..60s were a great era for big men

[SHAQisGOAT]

This again?

Assuming he'd make it into the league and assuming he'd be able to deal with all the racism and its "repercussions", plus much more physical play (all of that which he would be able to "do" better than Lebron tbh, although Lebron's the better player at their best), while not having all these modern "luxuries" you can think of... He'd have an amazing career just the same and regardless of all the "nuances" and subjectivity.

Big difference is that people nowadays woud be saying stuff like: "Kobe Bryant would be just another Kent Bazemore in this league :oldlol:" :rolleyes: "Weak era" :rolleyes: "His accolades/acomplishments mean shit" :rolleyes:

[SHAQisGOAT]

There was no perimeter players with his skill set, dude would average 40+ easily..60s were a great era for big men

Won't go into the skill-set discussion but players like Oscar, West and Baylor were terrific perimeter players (in any era), even dudes like Sam Jones or Hal Greer, really good ballers...

[moe94]

Who would he model his game after? He certainly wouldn't be Kobe as you know him.

[VIntageNOvel]

if he played in 60s, MJ would model his game after kobe not the other way around

[L.Kizzle]

Better than Dean Meminger and Dick Barnett but behind Sam Jones and Hal Greer.

[Smook A.]

Like Moe and VIntageNOvel said, Kobe wouldn't be Kobe. He models his game after MJ and he wasn't even in the league in the 60s.

[J Shuttlesworth]

I'm confused at what you're asking, OP.

When you say "Kobe ranks in the 60s" Do you mean he's in the top 60 of all time? If so, I agree. He's probably about #62 of all time behind John Starks.

Or are you asking if you would rank in the 1960s? The answer is no, he wouldn't.

[STATUTORY]

would been lynched after the kate farber incident?

became a civil rights icon

[L.Kizzle]

would been lynched after the kate farber incident?

became a civil rights icon
Actually, that incident would have never taken place. No hotel rooms for blacks. He would have to sneak his white girls like Chuck Berry used to do.

[STATUTORY]

Actually, that incident would have never taken place. No hotel rooms for blacks. He would have to sneak his white girls like Chuck Berry used to do.
damn, all this equality today is getting our brothas tripped up

[Im Still Ballin]

Probably top 7 i'd think.

[The-Legend-24]

Most skilled player ever, a goat scorer, just all around great player.

I'll say multiple 60+ ppg seasons, to go along 20 assists, and maybe 10+ rebounds a game.

In short, GOAT.

[Im Still Ballin]

Most skilled player ever, a goat scorer, just all around great player.

I'll say multiple 60+ ppg seasons, to go along 20 assists, and maybe 10+ rebounds a game.

In short, GOAT.

Stop homie.

You sugar-coatin dis bitch.

[Combat Wombat]

Stop homie.

You sugar-coatin dis bitch.

:facepalm

Your attempts to post like you're African-American when you're from Australia is absolutely cringe-worthy and f#cking sad.

http://static.gamespot.com/uploads/original/122/1225936/2448448-0589552695-Wigge.jpg

Your life story right there.

[Im Still Ballin]

:facepalm

Your attempts to post like you're African-American when you're from Australia is absolutely cringe-worthy and f#cking sad.

http://static.gamespot.com/uploads/original/122/1225936/2448448-0589552695-Wigge.jpg

Your life story right there.

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

Haha.

You soo shook homie, don't cry yo

lemme go get some tissues for you ok boo thang

but seriously. who the fvck are you???

[ImKobe]

Best player in da game.

40 ppg 10 rpg 10 apg

10 straight titles

Like, is this even a serious question? How many players could even dribble with two hands back in the day? Kobe's too quick & skilled for anyone to guard him & he would be the best passer of that era by a mile if you compare his passing game to Big O's.

Kobe does everything better than Oscar, who averaged 31 13 11 for a season in that era while he's an inch smaller than Kobe with less skills.

If a 6-5 Oscar, that weighs just about as much as Kobe, averages 10+ rpg for 3 straight seasons, what you think a taller & a more athletic Kobe is going to do? Oscar had a similar skillset actually when you look at his scoring arsenal, he could post up & shoot turnaround J's, his pull up jumper was pretty good, but still looked weird like Magic's & his passing is overrated as hell.

Kobe, with the skillset that he has, would dominate the league so easily because no one in that era would be good enough to stop him.

[deja vu]

Outside the top 10.

People will diminish his accomplishments. Dominating short nerdy white guys ain't going to impress anybody.

[Quickening]

Outside the top 10.

People will diminish his accomplishments. Dominating short nerdy white guys ain't going to impress anybody.

So about where he is now?

[ImKobe]

So about where he is now?

just ahead of Magic

greatest Laker of all-time, which Magic, Shaq & Jerry West have all said Kobe is, so if you rank Magic & Kareem in the top 5, Kobe has to be right ahead of them, or at minimum, ahead of Magic.

Barkley: Kobe is one of the 5 greatest NBA Players ever
Shaq: Kobe is the greatest Laker of all-time
Magic: Kobe is the greatest Laker of all-time
West: Kobe is the greatest Laker of all-time
Marc Jackson: Kobe will go down as the greatest player of all-time
Pat Riley: MJ will always be the best of the best, but you have to put Kobe right there, guys like Dwyane, Lebron & Melo are trying to get there one day

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anoqbgOZrEg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxYZAgKRtM8
in the video above, at 8:59, Phil says Kobe's more skilled than MJ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtGJSiMqpWk
See, even Lebron knows how to love Kobe, how many players have actually admitted that someone is better than them? Lebron had no problem admitting that Kobe was greater than him as a player & as a scorer in multiple seasons. Lebron stans need to listen to they idol. :applause:

[LAZERUSS]

just ahead of Magic

greatest Laker of all-time, which Magic, Shaq & Jerry West have all said Kobe is, so if you rank Magic & Kareem in the top 5, Kobe has to be right ahead of them, or at minimum, ahead of Magic.

Barkley: Kobe is one of the 5 greatest NBA Players ever
Shaq: Kobe is the greatest Laker of all-time
Magic: Kobe is the greatest Laker of all-time
West: Kobe is the greatest Laker of all-time
Marc Jackson: Kobe will go down as the greatest player of all-time
Pat Riley: MJ will always be the best of the best, but you have to put Kobe right there, guys like Dwyane, Lebron & Melo are trying to get there one day

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anoqbgOZrEg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxYZAgKRtM8
in the video above, at 8:59, Phil says Kobe's more skilled than MJ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtGJSiMqpWk
See, even Lebron knows how to love Kobe, how many players have actually admitted that someone is better than them? Lebron had no problem admitting that Kobe was greater than him as a player & as a scorer in multiple seasons. Lebron stans need to listen to they idol. :applause:

BUT the REALITY is, Magic is CLEARLY the greatest Laker of all-time. He has the all-time greatest W-L record percentage in NBA history (which BTW, was higher in his career games withOUT Kareem.) He carried his teams to NINE Finals, winning FIVE rings, with THREE FMVPs (and was certainly robbed of another one in '88.) AND, he played WELL in nearly all of his Finals, unlike Kobe, who was either below average, or downright putrid in five of his seven (and only average, for him, in the other two...and both of those were against crappy Nets teams.)

[JohnMax]

Kobe highlights from 1960s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mK4XhR0lYlE

[T_L_P]

BUT the REALITY is, Magic is CLEARLY the greatest Laker of all-time. He has the all-time greatest W-L record percentage in NBA history (which BTW, was higher in his career games withOUT Kareem.) He carried his teams to NINE Finals, winning FIVE rings, with THREE FMVPs (and was certainly robbed of another one in '88.) AND, he played WELL in nearly all of his Finals, unlike Kobe, who was either below average, or downright putrid in five of his seven (and only average, for him, in the other two...and both of those were against crappy Nets teams.)

What does he expect Magic to say? That he thinks of himself as the greatest Laker? Shaq played with Kobe too, and he's been playing damage control with him for years.

Magic won as many rings as Kobe in considerably less years.

[INDI]

What does he expect Magic to say? That he thinks of himself as the greatest Laker? Shaq played with Kobe too, and he's been playing damage control with him for years.

Magic won as many rings as Kobe in considerably less years.

Magic didn't say it in response to a question. He said it on his own and the cohosts on the show didn't know how to respond. Magic knew what he was saying and meant what he said

[SwayDizzle]

Outside the top 10.

People will diminish his accomplishments. Dominating short nerdy white guys ain't going to impress anybody.
This right here :applause: :applause: :applause:
Similar to how we rank Chamberlain, and it's clear Kobe ranks above him now.

[swagga]

kobe would lead the league in FG in the 60s. There. I said it. What more is there to be said? :roll:

[ImKobe]

What does he expect Magic to say? That he thinks of himself as the greatest Laker? Shaq played with Kobe too, and he's been playing damage control with him for years.

Magic won as many rings as Kobe in considerably less years.

And who did Magic have for those rings? Oh yeah, only the NBA's all-time leading scorer, who won an FMVP over prime Magic at 38 years of age. Even James Worthy won a Finals MVP over prime Magic. Jamaal Wilkes also deserved one of those FMVPs that Magic got & Kareem was robbed in Magic's rookie season.

People use Kobe's help to take credit away from him all the time, why does no one do that for Magic, who arguably had some of the most stacked rosters ever?

1985 Lakers: Magic, Kareem, Worthy, Cooper, McAdoo, Wilkes, Byron Scott. That Lakers team had eleven 10+ ppg scorers & 3 scored over 20 a game for crying out loud. Magic obviously had an inconic career with his regular season & Playoff success & even though I love the guy I feel like the way his career got short added a lot to his legend.

Magic won 5 out of 9 Finals while Kobe won 5 out of 7 & Kobe had a period, where he had zero help for 3 straight seasons. Magic was drafted into a team that went to the semis the year prior & had so many HOFers play alongside him during their primes. What's worse, Magic nearly got swept in the first round with HCA as the defending champs against the 6th seeded Rockets, who went 40-42 in the regular season.

Kobe won 2 rings & led his team to b2b titles without Shaq or another top 50 all-time great, Magic didn't do that. :coleman:
Kobe also never lost in the first round with HCA & he had considerably less help after Shaq left.


Kobe, Magic & Kareem each have 5 titles with the Lakers, Kobe did it with the least amount of help. Kobe's the greatest Laker. Shaq said it, & he hated Kobe for a while. The 3 most iconic Laker players ever, who all could be debated for the greatest Laker, said Kobe was the greatest. I'm taking their word.

[SexSymbol]

40-45 ppg on 65-70%.
Nobody would be able to physically stop him.
He has great hops with skill that none of those players would even imagine of.
7-8 rings at least

[LAZERUSS]

And who did Magic have for those rings? Oh yeah, only the NBA's all-time leading scorer, who won an FMVP over prime Magic at 38 years of age. Even James Worthy won a Finals MVP over prime Magic. Jamaal Wilkes also deserved one of those FMVPs that Magic got & Kareem was robbed in Magic's rookie season.

People use Kobe's help to take credit away from him all the time, why does no one do that for Magic, who arguably had some of the most stacked rosters ever?

1985 Lakers: Magic, Kareem, Worthy, Cooper, McAdoo, Wilkes, Byron Scott. That Lakers team had eleven 10+ ppg scorers & 3 scored over 20 a game for crying out loud. Magic obviously had an inconic career with his regular season & Playoff success & even though I love the guy I feel like the way his career got short added a lot to his legend.

Magic won 5 out of 9 Finals while Kobe won 5 out of 7 & Kobe had a period, where he had zero help for 3 straight seasons. Magic was drafted into a team that went to the semis the year prior & had so many HOFers play alongside him during their primes. What's worse, Magic nearly got swept in the first round with HCA as the defending champs against the 6th seeded Rockets, who went 40-42 in the regular season.

Kobe won 2 rings & led his team to b2b titles without Shaq or another top 50 all-time great, Magic didn't do that. :coleman:
Kobe also never lost in the first round with HCA & he had considerably less help after Shaq left.


Kobe, Magic & Kareem each have 5 titles with the Lakers, Kobe did it with the least amount of help. Kobe's the greatest Laker. Shaq said it, & he hated Kobe for a while. The 3 most iconic Laker players ever, who all could be debated for the greatest Laker, said Kobe was the greatest. I'm taking their word.

Magic's CAREER W-L % = .740
Magic's CAREER W-L % withOUT Kareem= .743

Magic took a broken down, injury-plagued, over-the-hill roster to a 58-24 record his LAST full-time season, and then guided them to the Finals.

He retired, and guess what...they went 43-39, or about where they were when he joined them in 1979. Oh, and the next season... 39-43.

Kobe's career Finals FG%= .416.
Magic's career Finals FG% = .516.

Magic >>>>>> Kobe.

[ImKobe]

Magic's CAREER W-L % = .740
Magic's CAREER W-L % withOUT Kareem= .743

Magic took a broken down, injury-plagued, over-the-hill roster to a 58-24 record his LAST full-time season, and then guided them to the Finals.

He retired, and guess what...they went 43-39, or about where they were when he joined them in 1979. Oh, and the nest season... 39-43.

Kobe's career Finals FG%= .416.
Magic's career Finals FG% = .516.

Magic >>>>>> Kobe.

so, FG% is the epitome of ranking players? Kobe's a better scorer & a defender than Magic ever was. Magic's efficiency and numbers are inflated due to the high pace they play at + you make it look like all Magic had was Kareem.

You can't compare stats(especially efficiency) across eras like that, you should know that more than anyone else. Kobe won 5 out of 7 Finals, Magic won 5 out of 9. Magic himself said Kobe was the greatest Laker. Jerry West said Kobe was the greatest Laker. Shaq said Kobe was the greatest Laker.

Them >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You

[SexSymbol]

Magic's CAREER W-L % = .740
Magic's CAREER W-L % withOUT Kareem= .743

Magic took a broken down, injury-plagued, over-the-hill roster to a 58-24 record his LAST full-time season, and then guided them to the Finals.

He retired, and guess what...they went 43-39, or about where they were when he joined them in 1979. Oh, and the next season... 39-43.

Kobe's career Finals FG%= .416.
Magic's career Finals FG% = .516.

Magic >>>>>> Kobe.
So when an all-time great player retires his team, which is a tad old at the time has a worse record than with that player? Your arguments are so incredibly stupid, it's just cringe-worthy to even read this shit.

[ImKobe]

So when an all-time great player retires his team, which is a tad old at the time has a worse record than with that player? Your arguments are so incredibly stupid, it's just cringe-worthy to even read this shit.

Seriously, and how are the Lakers doing without Kobe this season as compared to with him the year before, despite having a bench & for most of the season a healthy Pau Gasol? I'm pretty sure they are currently less than 4 games behind the top 3 worst record in the league.

[LAZERUSS]

So when an all-time great player retires his team, which is a tad old at the time has a worse record than with that player? Your arguments are so incredibly stupid, it's just cringe-worthy to even read this shit.

Ok, I'll play.

In Kareem's last season, the Lakers went 57-25.
He retired, and they went 63-19.

BTW, in Magic's last season LA went 58-24..and to the Finals.
He retired and they fell to 43-39, and were beaten in the first round of the playoffs.

I would say that is a SIGNIFICANT drop, wouldn't you?

[LAZERUSS]

Seriously, and how are the Lakers doing without Kobe this season as compared to with him the year before, despite having a bench & for most of the season a healthy Pau Gasol? I'm pretty sure they are currently less than 4 games behind the top 3 worst record in the league.


Oh yes...and let's forget that they don't have Dwight and his 76 games, or that Nash played 50 games last season, and he has played 14 this season.

BTW, they went 45-37 with Kobe, Gasol, Dwight, and Nash last year.
This year, with basically Gasol, who has missed 13 games, himself, 25-51.

[ImKobe]

Oh yes...and let's forget that they don't have Dwight and his 76 games, or that Nash played 50 games last season, and he has played 14 this season.

BTW, they went 45-37 with Kobe, Gasol, Dwight, and Nash last year.
This year, with basically Gasol, who has missed 13 games, himself, 25-51.

Nash, Dwight & Gasol were all dealing with injuries for most of the season with Nash & Pau having the worst years of their career while also missing over 30 games apiece.

Kobe played 40+ minutes practically every game to keep his team in the Playoff race, Lakers had a top 3 record in the West after the ASB with Kobe playing basically every minute at point guard because we had no more guards left on the roster, Kobe goes down & they get bukkaked in the Playoffs by Timmy, Manu & Parker.

Lakers, without Kobe, are a top 5 lottery team. Lakers, with Kobe, are a Playoff team.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

One thing I know for sure is that he won't shoot better than 45%.

[swagga]

Seriously, and how are the Lakers doing without Kobe this season as compared to with him the year before, despite having a bench & for most of the season a healthy Pau Gasol? I'm pretty sure they are currently less than 4 games behind the top 3 worst record in the league.

you are on some special kind of retarded down's syndrome to try and justify that kobe's impact is comparable to magics. :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[ImKobe]

you are on some special kind of retarded down's syndrome to try and justify that kobe's impact is comparable to magics. :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

It is. Kobe won 5 championships & had much less help than Magic did. Magic had 2 other Finals MVPs on his team + another HOF, who was in his prime & put up 20+ ppg on above 50% shooting on two of those championship runs. Are you kidding me?

[AnaheimLakers24]

300 ppg
90rbs
50 ast

[Helix]

Throughout the 60's the two best guards in the league were Oscar and Jerry. There was extensive debate as to who was the better of the two. I think Oscar probably got the nod more often than not, but only by the slightest of margins. Now drop prime Kobe into the 60's and I think it would be a three way debate. The first thing to understand is that by going back to the 60's Kobe immediately loses all his modern advantages due to money and technology. On top of that he is subject to 60's rules (for example, no palming/carrying and traveling), which is gonna affect his game. The game was more physical and he's not gonna be as successful driving considering Chamberlain, Russell, and Thurmond, etc. guarding the paint. Plus.......no three point line.

I DO think Kobe would do just fine back then, but the idea he'd have seasons averaging 40+ points per game, in my opinion, is ludicrous. More than likely he would average 25-30 ppg just like Oscar and Jerry.

[LAZERUSS]

It is. Kobe won 5 championships & had much less help than Magic did. Magic had 2 other Finals MVPs on his team + another HOF, who was in his prime & put up 20+ ppg on above 50% shooting on two of those championship runs. Are you kidding me?

Kobe was awful in TWO of those Finals, but since he had a dominant THREE-TIME FMVP on the SAME team, he was fortunate enough to have added two rings to his resume.

BTW, while Magic was beating the great Celtic, Sixer, and Piston teams of the 80's in his Finals, Kobe won two rings against arguably two of the worst Finals' teams in NBA history in the '02 and '09 Nets. Not coincidently, those two Finals against those Nets were the only two in which Kobe played reasonably well.

[LAZERUSS]

The "clutch" Kobe...


99-00
Regular season 22.5 ppg .468 FG%
Finals 15.6 ppg .367 FG%
Last Game of Series .296 FG%

00-01
Regular season 28.5 ppg .464 FG%
Finals 24.6 ppg .415 FG%
Last Game of Series .389 FG%

01-02
Regular season 25.2 ppg .469
Finals 26.8 ppg .514 FG%
Last Game of Series .438 FG%

03-04
Regular season 24.0 ppg .438 FG%
Finals 22.6 ppg .381 FG%
Last Game of Series .333 FG%

07-08
Regular season 28.3 ppg .459 FG%
Finals 25.7 ppg .405 FG%
Last Game of Series .318 FG%

08-09
Regular season 26.8 ppg .467 FG%
Finals 32.4 ppg .430 FG%
Last Game of Series .435 FG%

09-10
Regular season 27.0 ppg .456 FG%
Finals 28.6 ppg .405 FG%
Last Game of Series .250 FG%


Other noteables:


97-98
Swept by Utah 4-0.
Kobe averages 10.0 ppg on a .367 FG%

98-99
Swept by San Antonio 4-0
Last game of the series : Kobe 16 points on a .438 FG%

02-03
Lose to Spurs in WCF's, 4-2.
Last game loss by a score of 110-82 (Kobe with 20 points in a season in which he averaged 30 ppg)

03-04 Finals
Heavily favored Lakers lose to Pistons, 4-1.
In the clinching game five loss Kobe shoots .333 in a 100-87 loss (and LA was down 23 going into 4th quarter)

04-05
Team goes 34-48 and misses playoffs

05-06
Regular season 35.4 ppg .450
Playoffs 27.9 ppg .497
Last game (7) 24 points in a 121-90 loss (after blowing a 3-1 series lead)

06-07
Team goes 42-40
Loses in first round to Suns, 4-1.
Last game of that series, Kobe shoots .394 from the floor

07-08
Lakers are blown out by Celts in Finals.
In game four the Lakers blow a 23 point lead, and lose, in a game in which Kobe shot .316 from the field.
In the clinching game six loss, the Lakers lose by a Finals record margin of 131-92. Kobe shoots .318 from the floor.

10-11
Lakers with HCA are swept by the Mavs, 4-0.
In the clinching game four loss, LA loses 122-86. Kobe shoots .389 from the field.


Yep, conclusive proof that Kobe is the greatest Laker of all-time...

[tpols]

The "clutch" Kobe...



Yep, conclusive proof that Kobe is the greatest Laker of all-time...

00 through 02 LA's biggest competition was out west.. where there were a ton of stacked teams.. Kings, Portland, Mavs, Spurs, etc How did Kobe do against those teams? He had monster series.

LA's Finals opponents were weak and really no match for LA at all. They won those Finals comfortably 12-3. So using Finals dropoff in that case is misleading.. the real Finals/competition were out west


Using last game of the series is also incredibly arbitrary.. why not use the first? Does how you open a series and set the tone not matter? What about stats from a pivotal game 3 or game 5? There's little logic to your method.


Magic played what 12 seasons? You can run through the 7 years where he lost and pin blame just like you did Kobe.. and since Kobe's career is much longer because he didnt get HIV he has a lot more years to pick at. You could pick apart any great that has a 15+ year career like that.. because for the majority of everyones career besides Bill Russell they were losing in some fashion.

[LAZERUSS]

00 through 02 LA's biggest competition was out west.. where there were a ton of stacked teams.. Kings, Portland, Mavs, Spurs, etc How did Kobe do against those teams? He had monster series.

LA's Finals opponents were weak and really no match for LA at all. They won those Finals comfortably 12-3. So using Finals dropoff in that case is misleading.. the real Finals/competition were out west


Using last game of the series is also incredibly arbitrary.. why not use the first? Does how you open a series and set the tone not matter? What about stats from a pivotal game 3 or game 5? There's little logic to your method.


Magic played what 12 seasons? You can run through the 7 years where he lost and pin blame just like you did Kobe.. and since Kobe's career is much longer because he didnt get HIV he has a lot more years to pick at. You could pick apart any great that has a 15+ year career like that.. because for the majority of everyones career besides Bill Russell they were losing in some fashion.

And in two of the three Finals in which Kobe's Lakers actually faced a strong team, he completely folded his tent in them ('04 and '08.) And even in the one in which he was lucky enough to survive a game seven 6-24 performance, his shooting was horrific, and again, even worse in the critical game seven.

[Deuce Bigalow]

The "clutch" Kobe...



Yep, conclusive proof that Kobe is the greatest Laker of all-time...
Certaintly greater than Wilt Chamberlain. At least Kobe didn't lose 5 playoff series with HCA and lose 4 NBA Finals series. You're the fan of the greatest choker of them all dude.

[LAZERUSS]

Certaintly greater than Wilt Chamberlain. At least Kobe didn't lose 5 playoff series with HCA and lose 4 NBA Finals series. You're the fan of the greatest choker of them all dude.


ELIMINATION GAMES...


Wilt's numbers in those 23 games...13 of which came against HOF starting centers.

12-11 W-L record

31.1 ppg (Regular season career average was 30.1 ppg)
26.1 rpg (Regular season career average was 22.9 rpg)
3.4 apg (Regular season career average was 4.4 apg)
.540 FG% (Regular season career average was .540 FG%)


3 games of 50+ points

5 games of 40+ points (including a Finals 40+ elimination game)

13 games of 30+ points

6 games of 30+ rebounds

20 games of 20+ rebounds


Kobe...


Kobe: 18 elimination games(8-10):
22.0 ppg, 5.7 reb, 3.4 ast, 1.0 stl, 0.67 blk, 41.6% FG, 77.6% FT, 25.9% 3pt


I think you and I both KNOW who the greater "choker" REALLY was now, don't you?

[Deuce Bigalow]

ELIMINATION GAMES...




Kobe...



I think you and I both KNOW who the greater "choker" REALLY was now, don't you?
Tell me who has the highest choker rating of all-time?

[LAZERUSS]

Tell me who has the highest choker rating of all-time?

Find me a LEGITIMATE ranking, and we'll compare.

If Russell is your "most Clutch" player of all-time, then the Russell-Wilt playoff H2H's make your silly "formula" look damned foolish, doesn't it?


I believe his "Choker ranking" has Russell as ahead of everyone, with the lowest ranking.

'60 EDF's:
Russell's 59-16 TEAM beats Wilt's 49-26 TEAM, 4-2.
Russell''s edge in HOFers: 7-3
Russell: 20.7 ppg, 23.1 rpg, .446 FG%
Wilt: 30.2 ppg, 27.5 rpg, .500 FG%

'62 EDF's:
Russell's 60-20 TEAM beats Wilt's 49-31 TEAM, 4-3 (game seven by 2 pts.)
Russell's edge in HOFers: 7-3
Russell: 22.0 ppg, 25.9 rpg, .399 FG%
Wilt: 33.6 ppg, 26.9 rpg, .468 FG%

'64 Finals:
Russell's 59-21 TEAM beat Wilt's 48-32 TEAM, 4-1.
Russell's edge in HOFers: 8-2
Russell: 11.2 ppg, 25.2 rpg, .386 FG%
Wilt: 29.2 ppg, 27.8 rpg, .517 FG%

'65 EDF's:
Russell's 62-18 TEAM beat Wilt's 40-40 TEAM, 4-3 (game seven by 1 pt.)
Russell's edge in HOFers: 6-3
Russell: 15.6 ppg, 25.3 rpg, .447 FG%
Wilt: 30.1 ppg, 31.4 rpg, .555 FG%

'66 EDF's:
Russell's 54-26 TEAM beats Wilt's 55-25 TEAM, 4-1.
Russell's edge in HOFers: 5-4
Russell: 14.0 ppg, 26.2 rpg, .451 FG%
Wilt: 28.0 ppg, 30.2 rpg, .509 FG%

'67 EDF's:
Russell's 60-21 TEAM loses to Wilt's 68-13 TEAM, 4-1.
Russell's edge in HOFers: 7-4
Russell: 10.2 ppg, 23.4 rpg, .358 FG%
Wilt: 21.6 ppg, 32.0 rpg, .556 FG%

'68 EDF's:
Russell's 54-28 TEAM beats Wilt's 62-20 TEAM, 4-3 (game seven by 4 pts.)
sidenote: HALF of Wilt's KEY players are injured, as is Wilt, himself.
Russell's edge in HOFers: 6-4
Russell: 13.7 ppg, 23.9 rpg, .440 FG%
Wilt: 22.1 ppg, 25.1 rpg, .487 FG%

'69 Finals:
Russell's 48-34 TEAM beats Wilt's 55-27 TEAM, 4-3 (Game seven by 2 pts.)
Russell's edge in HOFers: 5-3
Russell: 9.1 ppg, 21.3 rpg, .397 FG%
Wilt: 11.7 ppg, 25.0 rpg, .500 FG%

So much for that "CHOKER RANKING."

[Deuce Bigalow]

Find me a LEGITIMATE ranking, and we'll compare.

If Russell is your "most Clutch" player of all-time, then Russell-Wilt playoff H2H's make your silly "formula" damned foolish doesn't it?
Takes all your statistics available and add ups all the drop-offs from regular season to playoffs and finals. Guess who was number 1?

[kennethgriffin]

6-5 elgin baylor averaged nearly 40ppg... grabbed like 20rpg


and he was a smaller, less skilled, less athletic 1st generation generic version of kobe/mj


kobe would probably play in the post. never be tempted by the three pointer. his fg% would sky rocket due to only thinking about efficient shots and not showing off

he would probably average 46ppg on 58% fg's on mostly post ups/layups/dunks... he'd average 15-17rpg also

yall kidding yourself if you think otherwise

[LAZERUSS]

Takes all your statistics available and add ups all the drop-offs from regular season to playoffs and finals. Guess who was number 1?



And that doesn't include the fact that Chamberlain was wiping the floor with the likes of Russell, Reed, and Kareem in those games, either.

Sure doesn't speak well for that half-baked formula does it?

Of course, a formula that considers a decline in scoring from 50 ppg down to 35 ppg, as a NEGATIVE (and rewards a player who raises his ppg from 10 to 15 ppg) is really a reach. Nor does that ridiculous formula take into account the DEFENSIVE impact of a player, either. A Wilt who was outscoring his opposing centers by a 30-10 ppg margin in his 11 "at the limit" playoff games, doesn't get credit for that DEFENSE. Or a Wilt who held outshot Thurmond by margins of .500 to .392; .611 to .373; and .560 to .343...gets punished because his regular season averages were higher in two of those series. Same against Russell, when he outshot him by margins of .468 to .399; .500 to .397; .517 to .386; .555 to .447; and .556 to .358 (but gets punished because in only one did he raise his numbers over his regular season average.) Or holding Kareem to two series of .481 and .457 shooting, in seasons in which KAJ shot .577 and .574 in the regular season.

Nor does it take into account Wilt oushooting his opposing centers in nearly everyone of his 29 post-season series, AND, outrebounding them in EVERY one.

And a Chamberlain, who averaged 30.4 ppg, 27.0 rpg, 4.5 apg, and shot .515 (in post-season NBAs that shot .420 in that span) in his first 67 playoff games...is considered a "choker" by that formula because his numbers declined from his regular season averages...DESPITE the fact that he faced RUSSELL and the greatest dynasty in NBA history in 35 of those games, and Thurmond in six more (just ask KAJ about Thurmond.)

Or that Wilt's scoring numbers are completely distorted because he only played 52 playoff games, out of his 160, in his "scoring" seasons. And that he faced a HOF starting center in 105 of those 160 games, and a multiple all-star in another 26.

Or that his formula doesn't punish you if your team loses in the first round, but it clearly does if you put up huge first round numbers, and then decline as you move to the Finals. Nor does the formula take into account how a player's TEAMMATES perform. Even if a player plays well in a playoff series, but his teammates puke all over the floor, and his team loses with HCA, well, it goes against HIM.

And one more time, he faced RUSSELL in EIGHT playoff series. Look up MJ's scoring and FG%'s in the FOUR series he had against the "Bad Boys" from '88 thru '91 (and really, the Pistons were a shell in that last one); or Shaq's scoring and FG%'s in his FIVE series against the Spurs from '99 thru '04. And how about Kareem's HUGE decline in his FIVE playoff series against Thurmond and Wilt, when his ppg dropped from nearly 33 ppg in the regular season, down to 26 ppg in those five series, and his FG% dropped from his regular season average of .563 in that span, down to .450 against Thurmond and Wilt.

Sorry, but that "formula" is a POS.

Again...a POS!

[tpols]

And in two of the three Finals in which Kobe's Lakers actually faced a strong team, he completely folded his tent in them ('04 and '08.) And even in the one in which he was lucky enough to survive a game seven 6-24 performance, his shooting was horrific, and again, even worse in the critical game seven.

For all the times you bring up Wilt's teammates FG's its funny you dont mention everyone outside shaq and kobe shot like dogshit against detroit. Detroit that year had a case for best defense of all time. They iso'ed shaq with a 6'7 Ben Wallace and manned everyone else up with some of the best perimeter defense ever seen. Detroit didnt just shut down Kobe and LA.. they shut down everybody. They were holding all opponents to record breaking lows.

And the 08 Celtics are also one of the best defenses of all time. They had KG quarterbacking and shutting down/intimidating Pau off his game and some of the best perimeter defenders in the league in tony allen/posey/rondo.. as well as a slew of other great defenders.


Is it just a coincidence that Kobe's worst series came against some of the best defenses of all time?

[tpols]

Why are you bringing up Wilt's stats? He was a known statpadder, boxscore checker, egomaniac. Bill Russel was voted as a better player than Wilt in years he doubled Bill's scoring. Wonder why?

Maybe because Wilts stats came at the expense of everyone else..

[LAZERUSS]

Why are you bringing up Wilt's stats? He was a known statpadder, boxscore checker, egomaniac. Bill Russel was voted as a better player than Wilt in years he doubled Bill's scoring. Wonder why?

Maybe because Wilts stats came at the expense of everyone else..

Chamberlain was held a 7-2 margin in FIRST TEAM ALL-NBA selections over Russell in their TEN years in the league together...

And he won an MVP over Russell in his ROOKIE year, was robbed of it two years later even though his numbers were even more staggering, then proceeded to RUN AWAY with the MVP balloting three straight years in the mid-60's.

Virtually no one had Russell ahead of Wilt from the mid-60's on.

[LAZERUSS]

For all the times you bring up Wilt's teammates FG's its funny you dont mention everyone outside shaq and kobe shot like dogshit against detroit. Detroit that year had a case for best defense of all time. They iso'ed shaq with a 6'7 Ben Wallace and manned everyone else up with some of the best perimeter defense ever seen. Detroit didnt just shut down Kobe and LA.. they shut down everybody. They were holding all opponents to record breaking lows.

And the 08 Celtics are also one of the best defenses of all time. They had KG quarterbacking and shutting down/intimidating Pau off his game and some of the best perimeter defenders in the league in tony allen/posey/rondo.. as well as a slew of other great defenders.


Is it just a coincidence that Kobe's worst series came against some of the best defenses of all time?

Russell's Celtics, the ENTIRE decade of the 60's had the highest defensive ranked team in the league, and some by huge margins.

But, Chamberlain outplayed Russell in every one of their EIGHT post-season series, and some by staggering margins, and carried putrid rosters to within an eye lash of beating the greatest dynasty in the history of the NBA, FOUR times...AND, in fact, DID beat them (and BADLY) in one.

But, yes, let's compare a Kobe averaging 23 ppg on a .387 FG% against the under-dog Pistons, and in a series blowout loss, ..to Wilt averaging a 30 ppg, 31 rpg, and a .555 FG%, while taking a 40-40 team to a game seven, one point loss against the 62-18 Celtics, and on their home floor.

[SexSymbol]

Ok time to stop trolling and think about this normally.
Obviously inflated amount of possessions so we add at least 10+ ppg to kobe's career, now obviously he wouldn't sit for 2 first years, so we have a 40 ppg
His FG% would be better obviously due to lack of 3pt line, so we have 55+%
Rebounds would rise up, inflation of possessions too. 10+-
Assists is the only question, would he be a willing passer, or would he score even more given the mismatches
so we have 40-45 ppg 10-12 rpg, 5-8 apg on 55% EASY

[Deuce Bigalow]

Chamberlain was held a 7-2 margin in FIRST TEAM ALL-NBA selections over Russell in their TEN years in the league together...

And he won an MVP over Russell in his ROOKIE year, was robbed of it two years later even though his numbers were even more staggering, then proceeded to RUN AWAY with the MVP balloting three straight years in the mid-60's.

Virtually no one had Russell ahead of Wilt from the mid-60's on.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_35th_Anniversary_Team

Bill Russell, voted the greatest player of the NBA’s first 35 years
Boiled down:

Bill: 11
Wilt: 2

[LAZERUSS]

Ok time to stop trolling and think about this normally.
Obviously inflated amount of possessions so we add at least 10+ ppg to kobe's career, now obviously he wouldn't sit for 2 first years, so we have a 40 ppg
His FG% would be better obviously due to lack of 3pt line, so we have 55+%
Rebounds would rise up, inflation of possessions too. 10+-
Assists is the only question, would he be a willing passer, or would he score even more given the mismatches
so we have 40-45 ppg 10-12 rpg, 5-8 apg on 55% EASY


His FG%'s would DECLINE...BIG TIME. He has been playing in an NBA which has shot an eFG% of .480-.500 his entire career. In the 60's, the NBA had eFG%'s of, on average, .435, with early seasons of less than .400.

GREAT shooters, like West struggled in the early 60's. Hell, CHAMBERLAIN had a season of .461. If Wilt was shooting .461 in a league, then Kobe likely would have been competing with Guy Rodgers's FG%'s.

[SexSymbol]

Chamberlain was held a 7-2 margin in FIRST TEAM ALL-NBA selections over Russell in their TEN years in the league together...

And he won an MVP over Russell in his ROOKIE year, was robbed of it two years later even though his numbers were even more staggering, then proceeded to RUN AWAY with the MVP balloting three straight years in the mid-60's.

Virtually no one had Russell ahead of Wilt from the mid-60's on.
This whole post is a huge lie.
Players who voted on MVP gave it to BR more times than not, even in Wilt's 50 ppg season if I remember correctly.
Actually, nobody really had Wilt above Russell. Everybody wanted him to be, because he was a circus show, but he just couldn't live up to the hype even with his physical dominance over significantly lesser opponents. Basically, he failed to win because he was a choker even in a league where nobody besides russell could stop him physically. Lebron has a lot of chokes, even Kobe's in 04 count as one, but Wilt's whole career is one big piece of choke. You know that, stop refuting that with irrelevant shit and accept it. I like Wilt too, but he's nowhere close to being a top 5 player.

[MMM]

Kobe is one of the most skilled players I've ever seen but why are people transferring him into the 60's with skills and a playing mindset that developed post 60s. It doesn't make any sense especially since Kobe took bits and pieces from many legends.

[SexSymbol]

His FG%'s would DECLINE...BIG TIME. He has been playing in an NBA which has shot an eFG% of .480-.500 his entire career. In the 60's, the NBA had eFG%'s of, on average, .435, with early seasons of less than .400.

GREAT shooters, like West struggled in the early 60's. Hell, CHAMBERLAIN had a season of .461. If Wilt was shooting .461 in a league, then Kobe likely would have been competing with Guy Rodgers's FG%'s.
None of those guys have at least 80 percent of Kobe's speed or shooting ability.
He would average 45 percent from the long mid-range lol, you do realize that was a time that hanged it's head on mid-range, and Kobe's a mid-range god? Not to mention that he's an incredible post-up player(certainly would be the best in the league at that time ((pre-kareem)))

[LAZERUSS]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_35th_Anniversary_Team

Boiled down:

Bill: 11
Wilt: 2

TEAM game.

Jordan was a LOSER in NINE seasons.

Bird...a LOSER in TEN seasons.

Duncan...a LOSER in ELEVEN.

Kobe...a LOSER in TWELVE.

West...a LOSER in 12.

Oscar...a LOSER in 13.

Kareem...a LOSER in 14.

Shaq...a LOSER in 15.

Hakeem...a LOSER in 16.

Chamberlain, he only "lost" in 12 seasons.


BTW, those guys were "losing" to far less "winners" than Russell in their career "losses." My god, Shaq "lost" to Greg Ostertag for cryingoutloud (and in a series in which he averaged 23 ppg on a .492 FG%...and was blown out, 4-1.) Kareem, "losing" to Marvin Webster. Hakeem, "losing" to AC Green. I could go on, but your "boiled down" theory looks even more embarrassing for those guys.

[kennethgriffin]

TEAM game.

Jordan was a LOSER in NINE seasons.

Bird...a LOSER in TEN seasons.

Duncan...a LOSER in ELEVEN.

Kobe...a LOSER in TWELVE.

West...a LOSER in 12.

Oscar...a LOSER in 13.

Kareem...a LOSER in 14.

Shaq...a LOSER in 15.

Hakeem...a LOSER in 16.

Chamberlain, he only "lost" in 12 seasons.


BTW, those guys were "losing" to far less "winners" than Russell in their career "losses." My god, Shaq "lost" to Greg Ostertag for cryingoutloud (and in a series in which he averaged 23 ppg on a .492 FG%...and was blown out, 4-1.) Kareem, "losing" to Marvin Webster. Hakeem, "losing" to AC Green. I could go on, but your "boiled down" theory looks even more embarrassing for those guys.


are we really gonna count seasons when kobe wasnt even a starter or comparable co-1st option

then seasons in which he didnt even play half the year or have a chance to contend due to injury

scratch

- 1997
- 1998
- 1999
- 2005
- 2013
- 2014


kobe realistically is a 7 time loser, 5 time champion

- 2000 Champ
- 2001 Champ
- 2002 Champ
- 2003 lost
- 2004 Finals
- 2006 lost
- 2007 lost
- 2008 Finals
- 2009 Champ
- 2010 Champ
- 2011 lost
- 2012 lost

[moe94]

are we really gonna count seasons when kobe wasnt even a starter or comparable co-1st option

then seasons in which he didnt even play half the year or have a chance to contend due to injury

scratch

- 1997
- 1998
- 1999
- 2005
- 2013
- 2014


kobe realistically is a 7 time loser, 5 time champion

- 2000 Champ
- 2001 Champ
- 2002 Champ
- 2003 lost
- 2004 Finals
- 2006 lost
- 2007 lost
- 2008 Finals
- 2009 Champ
- 2010 Champ
- 2011 lost
- 2012 lost

The king of excuses. I hope you're not serious with this nonsense. :oldlol:

[aboss4real24]

Kobe is a loser

only wins with a dominant big man

[DonDadda59]

kobe would probably play in the post. never be tempted by the three pointer. his fg% would sky rocket due to only thinking about efficient shots and not showing off


:oldlol:

Bean... efficient shots...

Fg% 'sky rocket'...

Not showing off?


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/lshawelu/CharlieMurphyLaugh.gif

[kennethgriffin]

:oldlol:

Bean... efficient shots...

Fg% 'sky rocket'...

Not showing off?


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/lshawelu/CharlieMurphyLaugh.gif

kobe only takes hard shots or deep threes because he likes to embarrass teams...

well if most of the games arent even on tv. and theres no internet. and no three point line.. guess what.. that 46% goes up allot

[zoom17]

:oldlol:

Bean... efficient shots...

Fg% 'sky rocket'...

Not showing off?


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/lshawelu/CharlieMurphyLaugh.gif

:oldlol:

[DonDadda59]

kobe only takes hard shots or deep threes because he likes to embarrass teams...

well if most of the games arent even on tv. and theres no internet. and no three point line.. guess what.. that 46% goes up allot

:lol

So you're telling me Bean is only a 45% career shooter because of TV and the internet?

The dude played 18 seasons and counting, 2 damn decades of basketball in several different eras, playing under different rules/conditions. The one constant- never once shot at/above 47% in a single season. Ever.

But yeah, he's gonna turn into LeBron once you take away the internet :lol

[kennethgriffin]

:lol

So you're telling me Bean is only a 45% career shooter because of TV and the internet?

The dude played 18 seasons and counting, 2 damn decades of basketball in several different eras, playing under different rules/conditions. The one constant- never once shot at/above 47% in a single season. Ever.

But yeah, he's gonna turn into LeBron once you take away the internet :lol

yes


showboating... kobe is known as the greatest difficult shot maker in nba history for a reason

if he has no one to show off to and all people see are box scores. then why would he ever wanna take shots like these

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7iN2gsm67M

part of the game is showmanship.. kobes the greatest ever at it

if any other guy in history took the kinds of shots kobe took on a nightly basis. theyed be sent to the d-league or cut... if jordan took the kinds of shots kobe took. he never wins 1 title

jordan had to know his limitations and take smart shots beyond 15 feet

[kennethgriffin]

kobe is the only guy in nba history that took more contested threes than open threes

these shots dont make sense. they just go in. jordan would shoot when dared. kobes the opposite. he waits till a guy is breathing down his neck just to make it more interesting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvvVd74-OxY


this is skill... this is balls... nobody like him. never will be another

he plays with the mindset of playstation.. any other guy woulda ruined his career with those kind of looks


kobe turns it into a top 5 all time career

[DonDadda59]

yes


showboating... kobe is known as the greatest difficult shot maker in nba history for a reason

if he has no one to show off to and all people see are box scores. then why would he ever wanna take shots like these

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7iN2gsm67M

part of the game is showmanship.. kobes the greatest ever at it

if any other guy in history took the kinds of shots kobe took on a nightly basis. theyed be sent to the d-league or cut... if jordan took the kinds of shots kobe took. he never wins 1 title

jordan had to know his limitations and take smart shots beyond 15 feet

So a 3 minute youtube video explains why in 2 decades Bean never shot at/above 47%? Try harder.

Here's a 10 and 1/2 minute video of LeBron taking tough shots:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSW43aasnGA

Why has the internet and TV not held him back from shooting almost 60% this season? The man has had his fair share of heat checks throughout his career.

[kennethgriffin]

So a 3 minute youtube video explains why in 2 decades Bean never shot at/above 47%? Try harder.

Here's a 10 and 1/2 minute video of LeBron taking tough shots:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSW43aasnGA

Why has the internet and TV not held him back from shooting almost 60% this season? The man has had his fair share of heat checks throughout his career.

do you watch basketball?

kobe takes 10,000 times more difficult long range shots than lebron

this is common sense

lebron makes 75% of his points within 5 feet.. this is on his shot chart

kobe is the opposite.. and yes anyone can make a video. but do we really even need videos like these to know?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvvVd74-OxY#t=2m46s

kobe chooses willfully to shoot these shots. to make fun of the game. hes bigger than the game. its too easy. he makes it difficult to entertain himself and his fans

kobe is the puppetmaster. while lebron worries about his fg% and needs to pad or pass up shots... he'l only take a difficult shot when he has 5 layups in his pocket to balance it out

dude just sit down and shut up bro... your boy lebron is great.. but hes no kobe

[red1]

Bean... efficient shots...

Fg% 'sky rocket'...

Not showing off?

http://i406.photobucket.com/albums/pp146/narelda/Raba/reps.gif

[DonDadda59]

do you watch basketball?

kobe takes 10,000 times more difficult long range shots than lebron

this is common sense

lebron makes 75% of his points within 5 feet.. this is on his shot chart

kobe is the opposite.. and yes anyone can make a video. but do we really even need videos like these to know?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvvVd74-OxY#t=2m46s

kobe chooses willfully to shoot these shots. to make fun of the game. hes bigger than the game. its too easy. he makes it difficult to entertain himself and his fans

kobe is the puppetmaster. while lebron worries about his fg% and needs to pad or pass up shots... he'l only take a difficult shot when he has 5 layups in his pocket to balance it out

dude just sit down and shut up bro... your boy lebron is great.. but hes no kobe

As far as apologists for subpar play go, you should be in the Hall of fame.

Going on seasons in the NBA and not once able to shoot 47%= puppetmaster who takes stupid shots for the internet and TV fame.

And :oldlol: at the bold. My boy.

Keep doing what you're doing. Never change :applause:

[kennethgriffin]

As far as apologists for subpar play go, you should be in the Hall of fame.

Going on seasons in the NBA and not once able to shoot 47%= puppetmaster who takes stupid shots for the internet and TV fame.

And :oldlol: at the bold. My boy.

Keep doing what you're doing. Never change :applause:


if all kobe did was protect his fg% and shyd away from risk... he'd have half as much success in his career..

he traded a few percentage points for a top 5 all time career

"if it aint broke. dont fix it"

you're trying to critique a successful outcome

and why else do you think kobe is the most popular nba player world wide in history? god in china and even more recognized there than MJ

know why? it wasnt from playing boring layup efficient low risk basketball

that over confident style made it possible to hit shots he needed to hit. if he cares about percentages and pads his numbers instead then maybe he never becomes the player he was


thats style saved shaq in 2000 wcf game 7

that style saved shaq in 2000 finals game 4

that style saved shaq in 2002 wcf game 7

that style dominated the 2001 playoffs

that style went to 3 straight finals without shaq

that style won back to back titles without shaq

that style dropped more 60 point games than MJ

that style dropped jordans 4 quarter scoring record in 1 quarter less of basketball

that style nearly dropped lebrons career high in 2 quarters

that style landed him the most all nba 1st teams. and it also landed him a top 5 spot all time

[DonDadda59]

and why else do you think kobe is the most popular nba player world wide in history?



http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/rolling_eyes_neil_degrasse_tyson.gif

[kennethgriffin]

http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/rolling_eyes_neil_degrasse_tyson.gif


if kobes the most popular athlete in china

a country that has 4 billion people.

then i would assume his european and western fans combined would make him #1 quite easly

he didnt get that shooting layups and protecting his fg%